P2P will save your life

[usekevin]

Is there anything to create p2p again because p2p is already existing in the blockchain what you have to do is just a trust. And this trust must be given to someone within your area region and more likely your community because if you just merely trust someone in another country and send the coins to the person without receiving your money and the person run away with the coin then your coins will be gone.
That is why exchange p2p is also good because you have to receive the money before you release the coins. And every country has their p2p methods to do except the international exchange platforms which perform general per to per. So creating separate p2p for transactions might not necessary again because there are already existing ones.

The P2P is the base for the Fiat to crypto conversion,mostly the Usdt was brought all over the world by the P2P in most of the trusted exchanges.They charges few dollars as the fee from the buyers to their Service.This P2P is act like the escrow of the deal and product from the loss by doing online deal to the stranger in other part of the world.If you do the deal online without P2P or escrow,you will see the real face of the people.They will try to scam at the other end.

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[mendace]

Is there anything to create p2p again because p2p is already existing in the blockchain what you have to do is just a trust. And this trust must be given to someone within your area region and more likely your community because if you just merely trust someone in another country and send the coins to the person without receiving your money and the person run away with the coin then your coins will be gone.
That is why exchange p2p is also good because you have to receive the money before you release the coins. And every country has their p2p methods to do except the international exchange platforms which perform general per to per. So creating separate p2p for transactions might not necessary again because there are already existing ones.

Even though the blockchain offers a secure mechanism for peer-to-peer transactions, you should always take precautions when dealing with strangers or people outside your circle of trust.  Mutual trust is a crucial element when carrying out p2p transactions, regardless of the platform used.

Although in reality this concept could be valid if you are trading something of value while for example im BitTorrent this makes less sense.

[PrivacyG]

Here are my two cents.

The only reason Tor is the preferred network is due to how many people are using it.  The more Tor users there are, the tougher it becomes to track every body.  It works exactly like Tor Bridges.  You can use Bridges to avoid getting caught for using Tor.  It works by camouflaging your network so the ISP never knows you are using Tor.  This comes with its own set of issues as follows,

In case your country decides to fully crack down on every thing that involves Anonymity and Privacy, you are able to avoid their new rules by using a Bridge.

Consequence.  The more people use Bridges, the higher chances are for other Governments to start cracking down on Tor too.  Following the logic of less people using Tor makes it more abnormal to want to use it.

If we had a better idea than Tor.  I believe we would immediately adopt it.  We had Open Bazaar that attempted a better Peer to Peer way of doing things.  But it failed as far as I know.  I do not even know if it exists any more at all.

Building a set of relationships through trust is a solution.  But only temporary I would argue.  Bitcoin is here to avoid the issues trust involves.  If we consider privacy, you can not have many ways of communication with the other Peer.  You are afraid of being under a DDoS attack from your Government.  How do you trust communication with your other Peer through E-mail or Phone?

You can use Telegram.  But even that is not Open Source, so you are left with Signal and maybe encrypted SMS communication.

The Tainting issues you mentioned are invalid.  There are no Tainted Coins.  Are you going to buy Bitcoin Peer to Peer and verify the history of your other Peer by using Blockchain Analysis?  Then there is no point in all this effort.  Simply go to Binance and buy a 'clean' KYC Bitcoin if you care so much.

I wish flexibility was as easy as you wrote.  Good luck finding some body who would give you grass fed beef for your Bitcoin.  Or who would give you a local voucher for it.  If you are afraid of your Government tracking every thing you are doing.  I would be afraid of working with just ONE person for every thing I do.  What if that person is sent exactly by the Government to trace how Peer to Peer only Bitcoin users are using their Coins.

In theory.  All you said sounds amazing.  In real life however.  Things are different and not as easy as you make them sound.

[AmoreJaz]

Is there anything to create p2p again because p2p is already existing in the blockchain what you have to do is just a trust. And this trust must be given to someone within your area region and more likely your community because if you just merely trust someone in another country and send the coins to the person without receiving your money and the person run away with the coin then your coins will be gone.
That is why exchange p2p is also good because you have to receive the money before you release the coins. And every country has their p2p methods to do except the international exchange platforms which perform general per to per. So creating separate p2p for transactions might not necessary again because there are already existing ones.

Even though the blockchain offers a secure mechanism for peer-to-peer transactions, you should always take precautions when dealing with strangers or people outside your circle of trust.  Mutual trust is a crucial element when carrying out p2p transactions, regardless of the platform used.

Although in reality this concept could be valid if you are trading something of value while for example im BitTorrent this makes less sense.

in every aspect of business, there's always a scammer so yeah, each user should be very careful in dealing with strangers over the net. this is why i believe the p2p in binance got a good following because binance itself is a reputable platform. so they know that if somebody screwed them, binance will take action. they also have fail safe in place, like you can file a complaint if someone didn't pay you. you can also check the number of orders completed. you will have idea how they are doing their business.

[uneng]

I think it's hard to go through the P2P route. I've already tried finding buyers to sell my BTC for local fiat currency and everything I found was a local service which buys cheap and sell high. So they never follow the currently quotation of BTC price, as they have to purchase it cheaper to have some profit by selling above the margin.

Anyway, I like the service and I always use them, since it's done P2P, without the need of signing up on an exchange platform and agreeing with several terms and conditions. It's really convenient, although I would like to find someone to deal with who would follow the official quotation of BTC price on Google.

People are so used to exchanges that they don't care about P2P transactions. And the few who care don't find partners to deal with.

[Blitzboy]

`

I think you're grossly underestimating the potential of modern technology and the synergy of many people's efforts. There are certainly dangers associated with using Tor, but these are to be expected on the road to technical progress. In addition, doesn't Bitcoin itself operate on the notion of evolution? While privacy is a serious issue, it is not insurmountable. Decentralised VPNs and the development of more secure cryptographic methods bode well for the future. These innovations arent without flaws, but they show promise for the future.

Let us not forget that the trust crisis that gave rise to Bitcoin was itself the result of a lack of trust. While Bitcoin does its best to avoid the pitfalls of trust, it does not do away with it entirely. The reliance on a single entity is replaced by faith in the decentralised network's stability. Its a common misconception that the Tainted Coins are real. Bitcoin's fungibility is one of its greatest strengths. Bitcoins are interchangeable, and its pointless to try to trace their origins.

[Solosanz]

Its a common misconception that the Tainted Coins are real. Bitcoin's fungibility is one of its greatest strengths. Bitcoins are interchangeable, and its pointless to try to trace their origins.

Then you need to file a report against this site https://www.chainalysis.com/ because their main service are tracking the coins' origins in order to combat against of money laundering. They are cooperating with centralized exchanges too, so if you use a centralized exchanges to trade your coins, you has a chance being tracked by them.

It's not mean I support chainalysis, but you're wrong if the centralized entities aren't consider about tainted coins.

[pawel7777]

Its a common misconception that the Tainted Coins are real. Bitcoin's fungibility is one of its greatest strengths. Bitcoins are interchangeable, and its pointless to try to trace their origins.

Then you need to file a report against this site https://www.chainalysis.com/ because their main service are tracking the coins' origins in order to combat against of money laundering. They are cooperating with centralized exchanges too, so if you use a centralized exchanges to trade your coins, you has a chance being tracked by them.

It's not mean I support chainalysis, but you're wrong if the centralized entities aren't consider about tainted coins.

Whether or not coins are actually "tainted" largely depends on the laws in each jurisdiction, i.e. how they approach a situation where say a merchant gets paid with stolen money (be it bitcoins or physical cash), will such money be confiscated or will it be seen as legitimately earned?
Of course it gets trickier with P2P exchange, and I think it'd usually be approached on case-by-case basis, but in countries like the US, there would be a big chance of them getting seized, because the US loves seizing stuff (see the Civil Forfeiture laws)

[CryptoHFs]

P2P is one of the oldest dealing ways even before it was implemented in the crypto industry. I strongly support it and specially without kyc in the crypto sector as that sector was found to spread anonymity and decentralization!

[mendace]

Is there anything to create p2p again because p2p is already existing in the blockchain what you have to do is just a trust. And this trust must be given to someone within your area region and more likely your community because if you just merely trust someone in another country and send the coins to the person without receiving your money and the person run away with the coin then your coins will be gone.
That is why exchange p2p is also good because you have to receive the money before you release the coins. And every country has their p2p methods to do except the international exchange platforms which perform general per to per. So creating separate p2p for transactions might not necessary again because there are already existing ones.

Even though the blockchain offers a secure mechanism for peer-to-peer transactions, you should always take precautions when dealing with strangers or people outside your circle of trust.  Mutual trust is a crucial element when carrying out p2p transactions, regardless of the platform used.

Although in reality this concept could be valid if you are trading something of value while for example im BitTorrent this makes less sense.

in every aspect of business, there's always a scammer so yeah, each user should be very careful in dealing with strangers over the net. this is why i believe the p2p in binance got a good following because binance itself is a reputable platform. so they know that if somebody screwed them, binance will take action. they also have fail safe in place, like you can file a complaint if someone didn't pay you. you can also check the number of orders completed. you will have idea how they are doing their business.

How can you think that Binance is the best p2p?  You answered your question yourself, if binance will take action it is because they have network centralization which should never happen on a pure p2p.  Usually the nodes are equal and no one can have control over them, p2p does not always mean cheating but obviously you have to make your own assessments.

[darkv0rt3x]

Is there anything to create p2p again because p2p is already existing in the blockchain what you have to do is just a trust. And this trust must be given to someone within your area region and more likely your community because if you just merely trust someone in another country and send the coins to the person without receiving your money and the person run away with the coin then your coins will be gone.
That is why exchange p2p is also good because you have to receive the money before you release the coins. And every country has their p2p methods to do except the international exchange platforms which perform general per to per. So creating separate p2p for transactions might not necessary again because there are already existing ones.

Even though the blockchain offers a secure mechanism for peer-to-peer transactions, you should always take precautions when dealing with strangers or people outside your circle of trust.  Mutual trust is a crucial element when carrying out p2p transactions, regardless of the platform used.

Although in reality this concept could be valid if you are trading something of value while for example im BitTorrent this makes less sense.

in every aspect of business, there's always a scammer so yeah, each user should be very careful in dealing with strangers over the net. this is why i believe the p2p in binance got a good following because binance itself is a reputable platform. so they know that if somebody screwed them, binance will take action. they also have fail safe in place, like you can file a complaint if someone didn't pay you. you can also check the number of orders completed. you will have idea how they are doing their business.

How Binance is p2p? Do they have some service that exclude themselves from the equation? I can't see how and why would they do something like that. But if this is the case, please explain to me how do that service runs! I deleted my account from there some time ago, so I can't know how it works. But I would like to know if it is trye p2p!

[glendall]

P2P is not an alternative for me because I personally have experienced losses when doing P2P transactions. without intermediaries
So after that incident I had more transactions in the exchange even though I did KYC but my security was guaranteed

[darkv0rt3x]

P2P is not an alternative for me because I personally have experienced losses when doing P2P transactions. without intermediaries
So after that incident I had more transactions in the exchange even though I did KYC but my security was guaranteed

How did that happened? I mean, wasn't that p2p in person? If that is the case, well, that's fucked up. We never know who's at the other side and we can't see faces, listen voices, etc! I'm sorry for yuor loss but p2p, in presence, is probably one of the best ways of buying Bitcoin!

[posi]

P2P is not an alternative for me because I personally have experienced losses when doing P2P transactions. without intermediaries
So after that incident I had more transactions in the exchange even though I did KYC but my security was guaranteed

Everything is at risk, although P2P ensures our privacy, the risk is that we can also lose our assets if we deal with the wrong person. Besides, trading through exchanges will make us lose our privacy, but it is safer to have an intermediary involved to protect our interests. Both have their pros and cons, and it's up to each of us to choose the method that's right for us. For trading from bitcoin to fiat and vice versa, I still prefer to use centralized exchanges rather than using pure P2P.

[Ben Barubal]

In my experience, p2p helps me a lot in terms of cash-in and cash out using Binance. And I don't see anything wrong with that, even if others say that there is a risk as long as you know how to be careful, I think it's fine. As long as you know how to look for legit middlemen or merchants, it's okay. And I've been experiencing this for several months without any problems.

[Tony116]

-snip
 However, if there was such a platform on a decentralized exchange then I would definitely go with that, but currently the only safe options are those exchanges that require KYC and they have their name in the crypto-world.

We all expect the growth and improvement of decentralized exchanges, but I am not overly optimistic about them. It's not that I don't trust them, but centralized exchanges have been around for a long time, and I don't see why they can't create a good platform that can compete directly with centralized exchanges until now. Decentralized exchanges have a lot of inadequacies and limitations, so their use is really an obstacle for many people. I would also use decentralized exchanges if they can provide the same services as centralized exchanges are providing us.

[nelson4lov]

P2P is great when there is a trusted person, either Person1  or Person2 else it's not going to save your life. I use Binance's P2P system and it's pretty much great.
They have integrated some important metrics like how much time user takes to release the crypto or what's their trust rating recently.

Before that, I used to do P2P on localbitcoins. Good old days.

Peer to peer system works if there's an escrow system in place to ensure that both parties play nicely and fulfill their part of the trade. That's what CEX that offers P2P service today do it and it works even though it has some downsides like:
- Support can release your crypto without your express permission.
- Support has no way of confirming if you've received payment or not in the case of an appeal.

I used Localbitcoins a lot innthe early days as well and the service is not so different from the P2P services offered by binance and the likes.

I wonder if we'll ever get a truly decentralized peer to peer on/off ramp service that is governed by only the code and no intermediary. The bounds of technology is continually being pushed with it passing day. It might not be long now.

[virginorange]

Many have the opinion that P2P trading requires a trusted middleman.

When did losing control over your funds and giving it to a third party become safer that being in control of your trading funds throughout the trade. This thread shows that many people don't know how p2p exchanges work and it would save everyone's time if they learn how it works. A multi-sig set up ensures that the trade happens without any party being scammed, it is not dangerous; you just have to know what you are doing and choose an irreversible payment option if you are the seller.

I agree with you. With the time locked mulit signature setup on Bisq no 3rd party is required in 99% of trades. If buyer and seller agree, they can close the trade without a 3rd party. If the buyer does not pay or there is other disagreement, a 3rd person from Bisq will take a look at the transaction. After the time lock runs out he can transfer the funds.

You've made an interesting idea in advocating for long-term trusted trading connections, however this runs opposed to the core spirit of what Bitcoin represents: decentralisation. I think it's a step backwards to advocate for a trust-based system because that means going towards a more centralised structure. We might as well be asked to put our faith in the government and huge banks all over again.

My idea in advocating for long-term trusted trading connections is very decentralized. I'm not talking about 100mn people trusting in 5 companies. I'm talking about 100mn people trusting in 10 different humans each. So everybody has 10 "friends". He trades with his 10 "friends". But everybody has 10 different friends.

Bisq is the most decentralized trading platform out there. It does not take custody of your funds, the software runs P2P and Bisq is organised as a DAO not a company.
However Bisq is one software, with one line of communication (TOR), with a couple of known developers, with a unique on chain footprint, open to everybody.

Nuking Bisq would destroy the trading ability of thousands. A decentralized trading network of 10 "friends" each is more difficult to destroy or to spy at.

[mvdheuvel1983]

This is not true, true p2p eliminates an intermediary or third party, if there is a third party it is no longer peer to peer, but peer to intermediary, and intermediary to the other peer.

Do you then mean that Binance p2p feature is not really a what it is but a peer to intermediary? This is a bit confusing. Care to explain further?

Trade in person with people you know and have probably traded with in the past. If you don't want to use that form, then choose a p2p exchange like Bisq, the trading funds would always remain in your custody through a multi-sig set up, so there is unlikely to be dispute, but if there is, Bisq arbitration would help to settle the dispute.

Can you mentioned another p2p exchange or rather does a platform like Remitano fall under this category? I have used it several times and whenever I encounter any issues, their customer agent are always on ground to resolve it.

[umbara ardian]

Money has three functions: medium of exchange, unit of account, and store of value. So at the moment, bitcoin is almost impossible to use as a medium of exchange because each transaction takes time, costs electricity, and costs quite a lot. Bitcoin must not be a unit of account because the price fluctuates; only the function of storing value is left, so now almost everyone, including the supporters, considers cryptocurrencies to be an asset. property, not real money. So buying and selling in the market requires KYC, which is against the nature of bitcoin, but at the moment it can also be the best way to secure your interests.