Can CBDC users lose control of their money?

[tjtonmoy]

What do you think, is CBDC being developed for the benefit of people or will it be directed against them?

At least with fiat money, you can keep it to yourself. Yes, I know it's centralized so the value could be affected. But if we focus on this CBDC particularly, what the hell is going on with it? Being able to freeze/unfreeze the account? Change the amount of the CBDC? How is it for the benefit of people? This goes truly against that. They are trying to make it something that the central banks could use to totally control your life. Privacy? We have already lost it with digital fiat. Now CBDC is just more centralized and just a fancy name for another government product.

The government wants to control and power, and what's the best way to do it? CBDC! The government won't put this much effort to create something new while digital money and fiat money is just doing good as always. The government saw the opportunity and now they are taking advantage of it with this CBDC. As the data shows, they will have much more control than what they have right now. Also, they fear Bitcoin because it can take away that controlling power and hand it over to the other side.

It's not for the people, it's for those who are in power and controlling everyone.

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[Fivestar4everMVP]

"Many in the cryptocurrency community have raised concerns that a CBDC has the potential to infringe on their financial freedom and encroach on their privacy." - This wording sounds in the article (from cointelegraph.com). To which, I can say that it is necessary to express not concern, but “sound the alarm”, because after such surprises in the CBDC source code, it will definitely be impossible to talk about any financial freedom and confidentiality.

Well, i think its high time we all realize that nothing patterning to the freedom of the people ever comes from the government, they can disguise all they want, tell lies upon lies, its only a foolish man that believe the government in this present time and age, like a movie i was watching yesterday, the lead character(i suppose) made a profound statement, he said when the government tells her citizen to relax, that everything is under control, that is when the citizens should arise and run for their lives.

I personally have always known that anything patterning to CBDC can never equal to the freedom of the people, its just another initiative clear the same as our current fiat system, if not even worst than the current fiat system we all are agitating to move away from.

[Inwestour]

Everything about CBDCs is still in beta and it will take a long time for CBDCs to become popular. But I agree with you that CBDC is inevitable and that it will completely replace cash in the future is almost certain. Furthermore, there will be no way to stop it because the government will deploy it whether we want to or not. And only those who invest in bitcoin, who value privacy, will see the harm of CBDCs. As for general users, they see this as a step forward in technology, and they will be ready to accept it when the government deploys it.

I saw on Twitter how buyers can pay for purchases using a retinal scan, I will provide a link to the video below:
https://twitter.com/HowThingsWork_/status/1681467136189816833



In fact, it's just terrible that these people agree to such a payment method, it can actually remove all questions about how pensioners and all people who do not understand technology will use CBDC. Their money will be in the bank account, and they will pay for purchases using the retinal scan. With this method, you can forget about confidentiality.

[m2017]

Everything about CBDCs is still in beta and it will take a long time for CBDCs to become popular. But I agree with you that CBDC is inevitable and that it will completely replace cash in the future is almost certain. Furthermore, there will be no way to stop it because the government will deploy it whether we want to or not. And only those who invest in bitcoin, who value privacy, will see the harm of CBDCs. As for general users, they see this as a step forward in technology, and they will be ready to accept it when the government deploys it.

I saw on Twitter how buyers can pay for purchases using a retinal scan, I will provide a link to the video below:
https://twitter.com/HowThingsWork_/status/1681467136189816833



In fact, it's just terrible that these people agree to such a payment method, it can actually remove all questions about how pensioners and all people who do not understand technology will use CBDC. Their money will be in the bank account, and they will pay for purchases using the retinal scan. With this method, you can forget about confidentiality.

People agree to this primarily because of the convenience. Electronic payments, whether it be a bank card or NFC (Near-Field Communication) is more convenient than cash. Attached a card or phone to the device and that's it, the payment received. No need to delve into your wallet, count, exchange, wait for the cashier to calculate, give change. It's quick and easy - that's what attracts people. And with payment using the retinal scan, here in general, you don’t even have to get a bank card or phone out of your pocket. I don't approve of this, but it looks like our world is inevitably heading in that direction. Laziness is a real engine of technology.

Human laziness and stupidity (indifference to one's freedom and privacy) will certainly lead to the spread of this terrible method of payment.

[Unbunplease]

 I think that at any time CBDC users could lose control of their money. It is quite likely that a certain code will have to be entered to access the money. If a person does not please the state in some way, access to CBDC can be quietly closed. CBDC is a digital concentration camp

[tygeade]

CBDCs are fiat money in digital form, there will be basically no difference as they are still controlled and regulated by the government. But there is a difference, fiat transactions will still become more private than CBDC. When you use CBDC, all the data about your assets will be entirely controlled by the government, but that is impossible if you hold a large amount of cash.

Apart from bitcoin, we should never expect any other currency that can give us privacy, especially those issued by the government, because that is what they need to control us.

I am pretty sure that there will be some differences in the laws, not going to be a major one but one of them is a digital and the other is not so it means that we shouldn't really be that much shocked about it in the end our fiat is quite digital as well.

We do not really see the current fiat currency in paper form all that commonly anymore, we just see it as cards right now, most of the people I know just pay with cards, only very very few people do not end up paying with cards and that means we are going to end up with something much better. I know that we are going to end up with some issues one way or another, but that doesn't mean that we are going to end up with a good or bad result one way or another.

[teosanru]

Isn't it very obvious that the CBDCs would have these features? I mean the intent of these countries which create CBDC is this only right? To get better control & accountability over the currency that is floating around in the economy, so if this is the case then how can you expect them to give complete autonomy to you? Moreover this is the very reason why the whole Crypto community knows that CBDC is as good as fiat only.

[Inwestour]

People agree to this primarily because of the convenience. Electronic payments, whether it be a bank card or NFC (Near-Field Communication) is more convenient than cash. Attached a card or phone to the device and that's it, the payment received. No need to delve into your wallet, count, exchange, wait for the cashier to calculate, give change. It's quick and easy - that's what attracts people. And with payment using the retinal scan, here in general, you don’t even have to get a bank card or phone out of your pocket. I don't approve of this, but it looks like our world is inevitably heading in that direction. Laziness is a real engine of technology.

Human laziness and stupidity (indifference to one's freedom and privacy) will certainly lead to the spread of this terrible method of payment.

Yes, it’s laziness and stupidity, it’s not difficult to guess that under this “convenience” there is total control over every step, every cent spent. Retinal scanning discouraged me in general, it's really stupid, but I see that it's even fun for buyers to pay in this way, this is a bad sign, the majority will accept all the innovations and be happy about it, and no one will think about the consequences until it's too late. I don’t know, any step against the state will endanger their finances, went out to some kind of protest, scan the retina from a drone and block all the money in the account. It may sound a little paranoid, but this is just one example.

[Gyfts]

I haven't taken a look at the source code, going by Pedro Magalhães assessment:

Blockchain's meant to be utilized as a trustless system IMO but all Brazil's done here is centralize the system with this alleged protocol. Under no circumstances should coins be burned from addresses nor should they be frozen. Assume it'll be abused by the government to compel compliance from their constituency and assume they'll try and market this as a cryptocurrency adjacent by throwing around the word "blockchain"

[Wind_FURY]

I haven't taken a look at the source code, going by Pedro Magalhães assessment:

Blockchain's meant to be utilized as a trustless system IMO but all Brazil's done here is centralize the system with this alleged protocol. Under no circumstances should coins be burned from addresses nor should they be frozen. Assume it'll be abused by the government to compel compliance from their constituency and assume they'll try and market this as a cryptocurrency adjacent by throwing around the word "blockchain"

His assessement is on point, and it has been happening in the cryptocurrency world for years. A "blockchain" without Proof Of Work as a consensus and a security mechanism is not an actual blockchain. A real blockchain should also be immutable. If there's a centralized authority deciding which coins get burned or which of them get frozen, then perhaps they should consider not wasting their time on "blockchain" and use a centralized database.

People agree to this primarily because of the convenience. Electronic payments, whether it be a bank card or NFC (Near-Field Communication) is more convenient than cash. Attached a card or phone to the device and that's it, the payment received. No need to delve into your wallet, count, exchange, wait for the cashier to calculate, give change. It's quick and easy - that's what attracts people. And with payment using the retinal scan, here in general, you don’t even have to get a bank card or phone out of your pocket. I don't approve of this, but it looks like our world is inevitably heading in that direction. Laziness is a real engine of technology.

Human laziness and stupidity (indifference to one's freedom and privacy) will certainly lead to the spread of this terrible method of payment.

Yes, it’s laziness and stupidity, it’s not difficult to guess that under this “convenience” there is total control over every step, every cent spent. Retinal scanning discouraged me in general, it's really stupid, but I see that it's even fun for buyers to pay in this way, this is a bad sign, the majority will accept all the innovations and be happy about it, and no one will think about the consequences until it's too late. I don’t know, any step against the state will endanger their finances, went out to some kind of protest, scan the retina from a drone and block all the money in the account. It may sound a little paranoid, but this is just one example.

The "convenience" part is not what's truly concerning about CBDCs. It's the fact that there's a central authority somewhere that could censor you from using the system. It could be a dangerously tyrannical tool - the opposite of Bitcoin's ethos.

[franky1]

funny part is if you want to look at many CBDC prototypes you can. the BIS and hyperledger have full examples
heck even china has released documentation about how their e-cny works

the easiest comparisons of many CBDB (mostly those bridged to the BIS m-bridge) are for want of a better comparison.. a liquid chain with a ln subnetwork (yes its no surprise many CBDC are using blockstream prototypes)

the liquid network is the federated proof of signature chain where funds are materialised by the fed and about a dozen payment processors(pboc central bank+ dozen commercial banks/payment services) that agree on new money creation.. and then having signed proof of creation to use on child transactions..
these signed transactions become the funding tx(parent) of the LN channel routes between the commercial banks
and then below that each commercial bank then create a sub channel(micropayment channels) give inbound balance to bank customers

there are usually 3 levels of sub channels.
a. no KYC, inbound balances of <$1k max channel liquidity (months labour max)
b. basic KYC, inbound balances of >$1kmin <$150k max channel liquidity (middle income/small business)
c. full KYC, inbound balances of >$150k min channel liquidity (rich/large business)

the (a) accounts are limited to a max amount at any one time. if you want to play with more balance. upgrade to the next level which requires KYC
the (a) is meant to be for basic 'cash' stuff like virtual visa's giftcards and other low priority stuff. where by those wanting savings accounts and t put wages into would ned a higher level account, the amount of the no KYC inbound balance is so low that they dont care about the administration and monitoring for stuff like terrorism becasue its small amounts so they just dont bother

even chinas e-cny work like this

where the PBOC(chinas central bank) do not see the daily transfers of any(a,b or c) of the channel routing upfront/live. its upto the commercial banks(routers) to monitor, log and report suspicious behaviour which is similar to the logging and reporting banks today have to do with fiat

the only reason their system is functionally working better than blockstreams LN is that there is only 12 hubs(factory channels) with the liquidity management. with known control/limits on liquidity, funding and payment routing control

[moneystery]

CBDC is actually fiat but in digital form controlled by the central government, what do we expect from a centralized system that is very vulnerable like this?

because it is centralized, meaning that the central bank can manage their products according to their wishes. Not even just freeze or unfreeze accounts, they can even track where the money is used, for what, and many other things, meaning that here you have no privacy for what you use. Even from this transaction data, the government can collect a lot of data that they can use for various purposes or they can sell it to third parties, who knows?

so is this CBDC better than fiat? of course not, because it only offers convenience, but for fiat privacy it still offers better privacy for various user transactions. And is it much better compared to cryptocurrencies? of course not, because cryptocurrencies are much better compared to CBDC and fiat.

[el kaka22]

Yes they can, do not listen to anyone who says otherwise because it is centralized and that means the central owners could end up withdrawing all of the money, it will have that function no matter what, or even reverse the whole chain as well if they want to.

People who go into this and buy into this should realize that they are trusting the creators of CBDC to protect their money as well, so if anything happens that would be because they trusted the wrong people. I know that's a sad thing to hear but the same is going on with the current stablecoins as well. There are tens of billions trusted into USDT team, tether company and if they do something wrong and lose your money then it's gone, you can't take it back and that's horrible to hear but true.

[DrBeer]

Everything about CBDCs is still in beta and it will take a long time for CBDCs to become popular. But I agree with you that CBDC is inevitable and that it will completely replace cash in the future is almost certain. Furthermore, there will be no way to stop it because the government will deploy it whether we want to or not. And only those who invest in bitcoin, who value privacy, will see the harm of CBDCs. As for general users, they see this as a step forward in technology, and they will be ready to accept it when the government deploys it.

I saw on Twitter how buyers can pay for purchases using a retinal scan, I will provide a link to the video below:
https://twitter.com/HowThingsWork_/status/1681467136189816833



In fact, it's just terrible that these people agree to such a payment method, it can actually remove all questions about how pensioners and all people who do not understand technology will use CBDC. Their money will be in the bank account, and they will pay for purchases using the retinal scan. With this method, you can forget about confidentiality.

Why do you resent it so much?! What's wrong with this place?
Enter the PIN code, NFC, swipe the magnetic tape through the terminal, put a fingerprint, scan the "face card" or retina - it's just a method of IDENTIFICATION, and confirmation of the payer at the cash register to the card from which the money will be withdrawn !
It's just a technology, a service. And no infringement on your eye or honor
Frankly speaking - I don't understand your indignation at all !
With such success it is possible to resent the data in the passport - photo, sex, date of birth and citizenship. But I hope there are no problems with it ?

[DrBeer]

People in the "cryptocurrency community" should know better than other people that CBDC is not offering anything fundamentally different from the fiat that they are already using every day. CBDC is another currency issued by the banks and both controlled and used through the banks which is practically similar to fiat which is also issued and controlled by the banks and almost always used through the banks (except when you use cash but who is these days?).

You already don't have any privacy when you use banks and using CBDC isn't going to change that.

CBDCs are other forms of fiat currencies and they all are created and controlled by central banks. In the past central banks print money from factories. In future with CBDCs, they will be minted from thin air, code and data centers.

[GUIDE] All About Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC)
How Money is made

The video How is Money Created? – Everything You Need to Know shows how fiat currencies can be printed from paper and why their purchasing power becomes smaller.

Purchasing power of the US. dollar over time

I'm gonna have to disappoint you a little bit. CBDC is the real evil, the evil that blockchain technology and the mega-popularity of cryptocurrencies have wrought. CBDC is not the digital equivalent of fiat, it's far worse. It's a solution that allows you to TOTALLY control and manage the flow of money. YOUR money.
You can read about the implementation of the Chinese version of CBDC, I'm sure other countries will take it for themselves and "armament" there is an interesting mechanism - blocking. Not the wallet. But tokens that are "marked" with different tags. For example - "believed to be a drug trafficker", or "engaged in anti-government activities".... CBDC is a centralized system, and the click of a national bank operator - and your coins - are not accepted by the blockchain, and everyone knows that the "marked coins" on the account - at any moment can be blocked.....

[franky1]

I'm gonna have to disappoint you a little bit. CBDC is the real evil, the evil that blockchain technology and the mega-popularity of cryptocurrencies have wrought. CBDC is not the digital equivalent of fiat, it's far worse. It's a solution that allows you to TOTALLY control and manage the flow of money. YOUR money.
You can read about the implementation of the Chinese version of CBDC, I'm sure other countries will take it for themselves and "armament" there is an interesting mechanism - blocking. Not the wallet. But tokens that are "marked" with different tags. For example - "believed to be a drug trafficker", or "engaged in anti-government activities".... CBDC is a centralized system, and the click of a national bank operator - and your coins - are not accepted by the blockchain, and everyone knows that the "marked coins" on the account - at any moment can be blocked.....

you might want to actually look at the chinese cbdc and not take some blog post opinion of it
the PBOC do not monitor the citizens money much like the US treasury does not monitor US FIAT of citizens
instead it delegates payment services(banks) to do the customer monitoring and registration and reporting.. much the same as the american fiat system of today

and before you refer me to many crap blog sites. ill inform you of many mis conceptions
a. china is not a one bank currency. they have many many payment services.
b. you dont need to register your life history and become a citizen to get an account.
c. the chinese government have not been "watching everything"

heres a trick for you to try. go to any travel agent/money exchange service people use for vacations and ask for some chinese yuan..
note that you do not have to become a chinese citizen and have biometrics and bloodtests and give social security details over to get yuan

my previous post is actually using the e-cny example. which is where commercial services like ali-pay, wepay, tencent and other who do the customer management side.

[wiss19]

A bad thing doesn't become good if someone covers it with goods and stuff that makes it look good, that is simply just a presentation and the thing being presented might not be what it is being presented as. Similarly, no matter how much they say it is for the benefit of people, they might create articles, and diagrams, try and explain everything to people trying to convince them that it is just like cryptocurrencies and they should use it, that wouldn't change anything.

A CBDC is nothing more than a digital fiat, it is not decentralized, and it doesn't work independently without anyone having any access to the transactions and balances and everything of everyone utilizing it. So, don't just listen to what says, simply understand that a CBDC is only to control the finances of people even more than before.

[Wind_FURY]

funny part is if you want to look at many CBDC prototypes you can. the BIS and hyperledger have full examples
heck even china has released documentation about how their e-cny works

the easiest comparisons of many CBDB (mostly those bridged to the BIS m-bridge) are for want of a better comparison.. a liquid chain with a ln subnetwork (yes its no surprise many CBDC are using blockstream prototypes)

 

There you go again frankandbeans. Spreading misinformation in a subtle way. Before you gaslight everyone into believing that Liquid/Lightning = Evil CBDC Supporting Protocol, let's make it clear that they are open source code for protocols that don't need any permission to be used how they want.

People in the "cryptocurrency community" should know better than other people that CBDC is not offering anything fundamentally different from the fiat that they are already using every day. CBDC is another currency issued by the banks and both controlled and used through the banks which is practically similar to fiat which is also issued and controlled by the banks and almost always used through the banks (except when you use cash but who is these days?).

You already don't have any privacy when you use banks and using CBDC isn't going to change that.

CBDCs are other forms of fiat currencies and they all are created and controlled by central banks. In the past central banks print money from factories. In future with CBDCs, they will be minted from thin air, code and data centers.

[GUIDE] All About Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC)
How Money is made

The video How is Money Created? – Everything You Need to Know shows how fiat currencies can be printed from paper and why their purchasing power becomes smaller.

Purchasing power of the US. dollar over time

I'm gonna have to disappoint you a little bit. CBDC is the real evil, the evil that blockchain technology and the mega-popularity of cryptocurrencies have wrought. CBDC is not the digital equivalent of fiat, it's far worse. It's a solution that allows you to TOTALLY control and manage the flow of money. YOUR money.

"Your money" in a CBDC system will not actually be your money. It's the absolute opposite of what Bitcoin is trying to be. It may be more efficient, more convenient and user-friendly, but it's not actual money. It's a mere token.

It might be good to have and use to live in the real world. But always HODL Bitcoin as a fall back.

[Knight Hider]

CBDC users can't lose control of their money because you can't lose what you don't have.

--Knight Hider

[jacafbiz]

CBDC is all about control because this is what the government wants, they want to control you perpetually, and I pity people voting for these people that are warming up to these policies. I know a lot of Government bodies are piloting their CBDC program, but if you looked at it, there is basically no need for this. If CBDC there is no way to hide because government controls your money, if they don't like you, they seized it, spend it for you and even cancel your account without notifying you, tools like these are very dangerous in the hands of politicians especially authoritarian governments. All we can do is to educate people on the danger of this and call these people out when they come for your votes