Can CBDC users lose control of their money?

[m2017]

In Brazil, a pilot project of the central bank digital real is being tested.

Source code - https://github.com/bacen/pilotord-kit-onboarding.

The presented architecture of the project, which, presumably, will be amended and changed - https://github.com/bacen/pilotord-kit-onboarding/blob/main/arquitetura.md.

This news would not have been anything particularly remarkable (the news about the testing of CBDC comes from various countries) if Pedro Magalhães had not reverse-engineered the source code of the digital real placed by the central bank of Brazil (Banco Central do Brazil’s digital real).

Here's what was found there:

Tweet about it. Curious options, right?

"Many in the cryptocurrency community have raised concerns that a CBDC has the potential to infringe on their financial freedom and encroach on their privacy." - This wording sounds in the article (from cointelegraph.com). To which, I can say that it is necessary to express not concern, but “sound the alarm”, because after such surprises in the CBDC source code, it will definitely be impossible to talk about any financial freedom and confidentiality.

As usual, all this is served under a plausible pretext: "Fabio Araujo, an economist at the Brazilian central bank, explained that the digital real has the potential to halt bank runs and looks to provide entrepreneurs with a more safe and reliable environment to innovate." (taken from the same source)

What do you think, is CBDC being developed for the benefit of people or will it be directed against them? After this article, the scales, in my opinion, swung even more towards the total regulation of the financial life of people.


Information taken from: "Brazil’s CBDC pilot contains code that can freeze or reduce funds, dev claims".

[Charles-Tim]

What do you think, is CBDC being developed for the benefit of people or will it be directed against them? After this article, the scales, in my opinion, swung even more towards the total regulation of the financial life of people.

CBDCs have nothing to offer that fiat have not offered. You can send fiat digitally and it is under the control of central banks and the government just like the CBDCs. In function, is there anything added to CBDCs that fiat can not offer? I see nothing new about CBDCs than claiming that it is built using blockchain. In function, digital fiat and CBDCs are the same thing and they totally invade people's privacy.

[EarnOnVictor]

It all still narrows down to the centralization of CBDC, the controller could be evil/good and do whatever they like with your supposed assets. I called it supposed assets because you might think you have them, but once it's not your key, it's not your asset, so you are technically not the owner and can lose rights to it just like a dream. The CBDC arrangement is just like the old ways that Bitcoin came to tackle, that's why no one should mistake a truly decentralized crypto like Bitcoin for something like CBDC which is just like fiat and may not offer anything beyond that.

Many would say CBDC would give room for more transparency and regulation, but have you ever thought if this so-called regulation is fair? This expose is another good one to prove that your CBDC assets are not safe for anyone.

[pawel7777]

CBDCs have nothing to offer that fiat have not offered. You can send fiat digitally and it is under the control of central banks and the government just like the CBDCs. In function, is there anything added to CBDCs that fiat can not offer? I see nothing new about CBDCs than claiming that it is built using blockchain. In function, digital fiat and CBDCs are the same thing and they totally invade people's privacy.

I agree, from the individual person's perspective, CBDC brings nothing new to the table other than potential threats of introducing more restrictions on how/when you can spend your money (i.e. there have been discussions of ideas of introducing "expiry" dates on money, to force people to spend it within a certain time frame).

The only advantage it provides is giving governments more control over the financial systems and the money flows and making all transactions transparent and traceable (further reducing privacy).

[Ucy]

As long as CBDC is Centralized (as the name suggests) or as long as Centralized Financial system is concerned, expect its ideals/principles to be in complete opposite of the ideals of Decentralized currencies like Bitcoin. Besides, Fiat or National Currency like the CBDC would have to be in accordance with existing national laws that guide the modern financial system. Such laws cannot guarantee users privacy or prevent accounts freezing, as long as centralization is concerned. So, users should not expect their fundamental rights not to be violated by Central Bank, governments or others.

[coupable]

What do you think, is CBDC being developed for the benefit of people or will it be directed against them? After this article, the scales, in my opinion, swung even more towards the total regulation of the financial life of people.

CBDCs have nothing to offer that fiat have not offered. You can send fiat digitally and it is under the control of central banks and the government just like the CBDCs. In function, is there anything added to CBDCs that fiat can not offer? I see nothing new about CBDCs than claiming that it is built using blockchain. In function, digital fiat and CBDCs are the same thing and they totally invade people's privacy.

I agree with you that cbdc coins are just a digital version of fiat money like coins were previously replaced with fiat money.
More privacy penetration in parallel with accurate monitoring of all citizens' financial activities. I think this is nothing new for them and people are used to it.
The only point I think is positive is how private banks will deal with these currencies. Governments will have the ability to control and track all activities on the CBDC currency network, and this is certainly not in the interest of banks that have long benefited from creating accounts for their customers with script numbers in exchange for taking their money under the pretext of saving or investing it.

[Rruchi man]

There is no doubt that CBDC is an improvement in the currency we already, it also means that that as it is an improvement and we already know that the government had control over the fiat that already exist, they have have an improved control over CBDC and will have the power to manipulate, seize/freeze, and control the CBDC as they please. Agreeing to use CBDC is giving the government more financial control over you.

It will not CBDC users to loose control of their money easily whenever the governments feels there is a reason to do enforce and show control.

[Casdinyard]

I'm guessing since they are essentially just fiat in digitized/tokenized form the government still would have enough access and responsibility to manage your money in certain occasions. For one, such as what has happened in the past with criminals holding massive amounts of wealth, their money and assets were pooled into the national treasury instead to amp the taxpayer's money and basically promise to fund projects that will better the common person's life. Of course we know where the money goes but it's one of the possibilities wherein the government can seize control of your money, be it fiat or CBDC. I can't really think of any other reason or way a government could take control of your funds and money other than as a result of criminal liability. But for the record, CBDCs aren't absolved of this and just like their paper money counterpart, they can be controlled too.

[ZAINmalik75]

Just to clarify that, the implementation of CBDC in Brazil where is not going to be implemented publically means it's just a test in a specific environment where other people might not use it. But still, answer to your query is yes. CBDC mean centralization and you better know what happens in centralization.

They only wanted to implement finance with blockchain technology so that they could look cool maybe because everyone as you already said started to promote CBDC which is not in favor of crypto. They could stop transactions any time because our transaction will go through them like will be processed by some central entities so that they could figure out any illegal activity and could stop the whole transaction and capture the guy.

[Poker Player]

That CBDCs allow a higher level of control and manipulation to Central Banks is nothing new. Another thing is whether or when these features will be used, and the level of laziness of the people to accept them.

I am quite pessimistic in that sense. I think that CBDCs are going to be accepted and used by a large majority of the population from the start and that abusive uses will be accepted as just punishments against bad citizens without further ado.

The powers that be are not stupid and are not going to implement the abusive measures from the start, they will simply wait until they have a considerable level of adoption and start punishing as they find appropriate.

[passwordnow]

IMHO, these CBDCs are nothing just like the cash that we've got. While the government has control over the supply of it, with CBDCs it's easier for them to really have those accounts have more balance and there's no need for the third-party confirmation which is what we have in the real world through the banks. There are strict protocols that the banks have and that's what is making it for CBDC easier. It just sounds interesting to hear out that there's CBDCs but, I am not optimistic about it unless it touches the Bitcoin market and adds some fuel to its market cap.

[Freddie Boyer]

Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC) has been a hot topic lately. In my opinion, CBDC can be of great benefit to society. They offer a convenient, safe and efficient digital version of our national currency for transactions. But, there are also disadvantages you know. CBDCs are easy to track, compromising privacy and anonymity. Plus, they are also vulnerable to cyber attacks, and this is primarily the result of increased surveillance and potential loss of privacy. To solve this problem, we need clear regulation, public engagement, and a focus on individual rights and financial stability both in Brazil, and wherever it may apply.

[Latviand]

Anything developed by a corrupt or despot government will always serve those in power no matter how much it appeals to the people so when it comes to CBDC, I think it's safe to say that it's just a glorified fiat that makes it easier for the people ruling over to control your money. Another thing about CBDC is that it's not going to be the cure all solution since there's still fiat function alongside it most likely so while the citizens are unknowingly use those CBDC, the top brass are busy swindling the fiat to fill their pockets.

[Helena Yu]

There are some people think CBDC is good, some people think it's bad, some people think it's a new currency, some people think it's similar to stable coin etc.

Actually in short, you just need to understand if CBDC is same like digital fiat, that's all. It means there's no difference, it's similar like you use your cell phone to pay anything by just scan the QR code or type it manually through mobile banking.

Is people lose control over their money by using CBDC? yes, similar like mobile banking.

[vv181]

Nothing is surprising and unexpected when the CBDC is capable to control user funds. Without a doubt, a digitalization of money, where authorities have the sole governance toward the tool would make the possibility to undermine freedom and privacy/confidentiality, as indirect consequences or when done badly.

This is truly not a distinct case – centralized entities able to control user funds – that is just how it works. The difference would be, right now, the authority has direct control, instead of going around over many banks and such, CBDC cut the middlemen for government and local country usage.

[DrBeer]

CBDC is a hellish mix of government fantasy and blockchain technology. And the result is a creepy chimera.
For example, the Chinese version of CBDC includes mechanisms for marking and blocking individual "coins". This is a new mechanism, or rather a new level, of control of funds by the state. Now there is no need to send a police squad to seize your money or go to banks to block your cards. The blockchain gets the command "coins belonging to THIS MAN" - block! And any transaction using any coin from the marked coins becomes impossible ! I don't think other countries will miss this opportunity !

So the cryptoworld has spawned a terrible monster....

[Fiatless]

Central Bank Digital Currency is nothing but a tool of control and centralization. It was created to compete with cryptocurrencies and discourage people from embracing crypto. This pilot phase in Brazil gives the government the draconian opportunity to freeze, unfreeze, move funds, and increase and reduce people's funds without restriction.

The government of my country introduced its CBDC three years ago and it proved to be a total failure. Bitcoin adoption has even increased in the country because people know the defects of using the CBDC. In some countries, bitcoin helps citizens to overcome inflation and offers unrestricted financial transactions. These CBDCs can only attract citizens that don't care about privacy and the freedom decentralization offers.

[CryptoBuds]

That's why I still prefer fiat and don't support the launch of CBDCs, but it's inevitable that we can't avoid it. CBDC would be a serious invasion of privacy, and it is safe to say that we will lose all control of our assets if CBDC is used to replace fiat money completely.

With fiat we can still stay anonymous and use it however we want, but with CBDC that will completely disappear. The government will know our every action, even the smallest expenditure for daily needs through CBDC. CBDC is the end of our privacy, but fortunately, bitcoin has come at the right time.

[Inwestour]

That's why I still prefer fiat and don't support the launch of CBDCs, but it's inevitable that we can't avoid it. CBDC would be a serious invasion of privacy, and it is safe to say that we will lose all control of our assets if CBDC is used to replace fiat money completely.

With fiat we can still stay anonymous and use it however we want, but with CBDC that will completely disappear. The government will know our every action, even the smallest expenditure for daily needs through CBDC. CBDC is the end of our privacy, but fortunately, bitcoin has come at the right time.

CBDC are not much different from fiat, which is on our bank card, except that we cannot withdraw this money. And this means that almost always this money will be under the control of the bank.

Those who want to use money with their card without dealing with cash can already do it without any problems. But CBDC will be the forced use of digital currencies, as governments plan to completely withdraw cash from circulation.

I do not believe that it is possible to do this in the near future, most likely CBDC will exist for some time in parallel with cash, because all segments of the population will not be able to adapt to the new reality equally quickly.

[pooya87]

This subject never made any sense to me specially with statements like this:

"Many in the cryptocurrency community have raised concerns that a CBDC has the potential to infringe on their financial freedom and encroach on their privacy."- This wording sounds in the article (from cointelegraph.com).

People in the "cryptocurrency community" should know better than other people that CBDC is not offering anything fundamentally different from the fiat that they are already using every day. CBDC is another currency issued by the banks and both controlled and used through the banks which is practically similar to fiat which is also issued and controlled by the banks and almost always used through the banks (except when you use cash but who is these days?).

You already don't have any privacy when you use banks and using CBDC isn't going to change that.

[Wind_FURY]

What do you think, is CBDC being developed for the benefit of people or will it be directed against them? After this article, the scales, in my opinion, swung even more towards the total regulation of the financial life of people.

CBDCs have nothing to offer that fiat have not offered. You can send fiat digitally and it is under the control of central banks and the government just like the CBDCs. In function, is there anything added to CBDCs that fiat can not offer? I see nothing new about CBDCs than claiming that it is built using blockchain. In function, digital fiat and CBDCs are the same thing and they totally invade people's privacy.

Actually, fiat in cash/physical form is better than CBDC as a form of money. There are limitations but we can send it to anybody we want, it's peer to peer, and transactions made with them could be very private if you choose it to be.

In CBDC, it's a centrally programable form of digital currency. It is built and developed to CENSOR YOU and take away your freedom to transact. How can many people not see that it's an anti-Bitcoin-ethos digital currency.

But it's good to see that the opinions have changed slightly as more information is taught to us plebs. I started a topic last year about the real nature of CBDC, but most of the replies were uninformed, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5382985.0

[imamusma]

CBDC is the same as fiat, both are controlled by governments and banks. No difference can be expected from the CBDC, but it may only appear effective for adoption as another currency that helps financial transactions be more transparent. CBDC can also reduce reliance on paper money, but that is no different from digital fiat either.

We can't expect CBDC to support users' financial privacy, it's exactly the same way we use a bank. Transaction supervision is also still under the central bank, so that the CBDC is still a currency that is no different from before.

[iv4n]

CBDC is the same as fiat, both are controlled by governments and banks. No difference can be expected from the CBDC, but it may only appear effective for adoption as another currency that helps financial transactions be more transparent. CBDC can also reduce reliance on paper money, but that is no different from digital fiat either.

We can't expect CBDC to support users' financial privacy, it's exactly the same way we use a bank. Transaction supervision is also still under the central bank, so that the CBDC is still a currency that is no different from before.

It's the same, but it's not really the same... With CBDC the governments will have full control at any time. I guess the crypto world I imagine is still far away, but I don't see any other alternative to this system that can bring some good for the entire world. Most of us can't say we like this shit, but it's happening, and I believe we will see and learn more about CBDC and how it's actually working in the upcoming years.

[KiaKia]

CBDC does not appeal to me as long as Fiat and USDT or other stable coins exist unless maybe they introduce something benefitting CBDC users that is worth a shot. Maybe? I guess not.

Well, what can you expect from the government anyway?

Taking more than it gives to its adopters would have been the government's goal if Bitcoin was the government, which is why I am glad that something like Bitcoin exists in a decentralized form.

I don't plan on using CBDC and if the government are going to force it on the people they will have to eradicate paper money, I bet that's never going to happen, maybe far distance in the future it can be possible but twenty years to this time the world will still be spending Fiat in paper money.

[DeathAngel]

The whole point of a government / Central Bank issued CBDC is that the people lose ‘total control’ of their money. I mean most people won’t have a problem with every day purchases but they have the power to stop you buying certain products, stop you buying too much fuel if you use too much carbon. That’s where a CBDC leads to, authoritarianism, like China, social credit scores etc. I really hope CBDC’s do not happen, they will tax & know everything. If you fix a car for a neighbour for a small fee, they will know. They want to abolish cash, hopefully it doesn’t happen.

[hatshepsut93]

CBDCs have nothing to offer that fiat have not offered. You can send fiat digitally and it is under the control of central banks and the government just like the CBDCs. In function, is there anything added to CBDCs that fiat can not offer? I see nothing new about CBDCs than claiming that it is built using blockchain. In function, digital fiat and CBDCs are the same thing and they totally invade people's privacy.

I don't agree that they invade people's privacy. People agree with the terms and conditions, which include monitoring their accounts and reporting to authorities if needed. If they object to that, they can just not use that service and use paper money instead. CBDC will come with a contract agreement when someone creates an account, just like with banks.

Invasion of privacy is when someone is forcefully spying on you against your will.

[icalical]

'Can CBDC users lose control of their money?' well yes definitely, that's like the main purpose of the CBDC, cryptocurrencies are not controllable by the the government, while government need something that can be controlled so they can maintain stability of their people.

[Darker45]

The answer is a big yes. A CBDC is, first of all, centralized. Which means that somebody else has control over your funds. So, just like Bitcoin in centralized exchanges, those funds are not yours to begin with. This is probably the most fundamental feature of any CBDC-- centralization.

There are other features which may differ from one CBDC to another, though. Expiration, for example, may not be found in other versions. But the point remains that users don't have complete control not just of their money but also of their transactions.

[MusaMohamed]

People in the "cryptocurrency community" should know better than other people that CBDC is not offering anything fundamentally different from the fiat that they are already using every day. CBDC is another currency issued by the banks and both controlled and used through the banks which is practically similar to fiat which is also issued and controlled by the banks and almost always used through the banks (except when you use cash but who is these days?).

You already don't have any privacy when you use banks and using CBDC isn't going to change that.

CBDCs are other forms of fiat currencies and they all are created and controlled by central banks. In the past central banks print money from factories. In future with CBDCs, they will be minted from thin air, code and data centers.

[GUIDE] All About Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC)
How Money is made

The video How is Money Created? – Everything You Need to Know shows how fiat currencies can be printed from paper and why their purchasing power becomes smaller.

Purchasing power of the US. dollar over time

[CryptoBuds]

That's why I still prefer fiat and don't support the launch of CBDCs, but it's inevitable that we can't avoid it. CBDC would be a serious invasion of privacy, and it is safe to say that we will lose all control of our assets if CBDC is used to replace fiat money completely.

With fiat we can still stay anonymous and use it however we want, but with CBDC that will completely disappear. The government will know our every action, even the smallest expenditure for daily needs through CBDC. CBDC is the end of our privacy, but fortunately, bitcoin has come at the right time.

CBDC are not much different from fiat, which is on our bank card, except that we cannot withdraw this money. And this means that almost always this money will be under the control of the bank.

Those who want to use money with their card without dealing with cash can already do it without any problems. But CBDC will be the forced use of digital currencies, as governments plan to completely withdraw cash from circulation.

I do not believe that it is possible to do this in the near future, most likely CBDC will exist for some time in parallel with cash, because all segments of the population will not be able to adapt to the new reality equally quickly.

Of course, the complete elimination of cash is not easy and will not happen soon because there is still a part of the world's population that does not know how to use the internet as well as smartphones, and people with physical disabilities, the government also needs to come up with a solution for them before phasing out cash altogether.
Many small countries have failed to implement CBDC, and many laugh, but that will not stop the government's determination when they know the benefits it brings them. But CBDC is inevitable and cannot prevent it.

[Iroh]

Actually, fiat in cash/physical form is better than CBDC as a form of money. There are limitations but we can send it to anybody we want, it's peer to peer, and transactions made with them could be very private if you choose it to be.

Cold hard cash is way better than these CBDCs as a method of making transactions. You could purchase whatever and the only people to know about the transaction would be you and the seller. Nice and private.
CBDC is literally government owned and backed digital currency. They are no different than the fiat being used, although fiat in its physical form gives more privacy than these CBDCs would ever give.
Just like an individuals bank account could be frozen along with the funds in it, users of CBDCs could as well lose control of their funds, perhaps even faster as they were never in total control in the first place.

[Silberman]

...

What do you think, is CBDC being developed for the benefit of people or will it be directed against them? After this article, the scales, in my opinion, swung even more towards the total regulation of the financial life of people.


Information taken from: "Brazil’s CBDC pilot contains code that can freeze or reduce funds, dev claims".

The answer to this question is very obvious, governments want complete control over you and your money, if they have both then they can basically control their population as they want, since anyone which opposes them can be silenced with just a few mouse clicks while right now this is way more difficult to do, now some people may say that this is for our own good, but since when has the government acted only for the benefit of their citizens instead of acting for its own benefits?

[justdimin]

As long as CBDC is Centralized (as the name suggests) or as long as Centralized Financial system is concerned, expect its ideals/principles to be in complete opposite of the ideals of Decentralized currencies like Bitcoin. Besides, Fiat or National Currency like the CBDC would have to be in accordance with existing national laws that guide the modern financial system. Such laws cannot guarantee users privacy or prevent accounts freezing, as long as centralization is concerned. So, users should not expect their fundamental rights not to be violated by Central Bank, governments or others.

CBDC will always remain to be centralized because it was a product of a bank and a bank is also centralized. It will remain to be this way because this what their advocacy is. They can't guarantee privacy but they can guarantee freezing of accounts most especially if they see a suspicious activity on ones account.

If we are using their service, it's of course better to stay positive and don't think that something bad will happen to you even if you know that it's possible to happen at any moment but if you are getting paranoid, you are always free to leave them and switch on something that is decentralized like Bitcoin. We only need to make sure that we don't store it on centralized exchange or on a custodial wallet.

[kryptqnick]

I agree that a CBDC is largely another step away from financial freedom, and not only in comparison with cryptos like Bitcoin, but compared to fiat as well. When it comes to fiat, people can use cash and remain largely untraceable. If they use bank accounts, it's worth noting that there are usually a lot of banks to choose from, and many of them are private. With CBDC, everything is perfectly traceable and under direct Central Bank control, if I understand correctly.
But I should also note that it's just an experiment, and using this CBDC is a choice people can make (they aren't forced to switch to it, right?). Some people don't care about privacy and financial freedom, and it's also a choice. To them, CBDC can be an interesting thing to try.

[DanWalker]

CBDC is the same as fiat, both are controlled by governments and banks. No difference can be expected from the CBDC, but it may only appear effective for adoption as another currency that helps financial transactions be more transparent. CBDC can also reduce reliance on paper money, but that is no different from digital fiat either.

We can't expect CBDC to support users' financial privacy, it's exactly the same way we use a bank. Transaction supervision is also still under the central bank, so that the CBDC is still a currency that is no different from before.

CBDCs are fiat money in digital form, there will be basically no difference as they are still controlled and regulated by the government. But there is a difference, fiat transactions will still become more private than CBDC. When you use CBDC, all the data about your assets will be entirely controlled by the government, but that is impossible if you hold a large amount of cash.

Apart from bitcoin, we should never expect any other currency that can give us privacy, especially those issued by the government, because that is what they need to control us.

[Inwestour]

I agree that a CBDC is largely another step away from financial freedom, and not only in comparison with cryptos like Bitcoin, but compared to fiat as well. When it comes to fiat, people can use cash and remain largely untraceable. If they use bank accounts, it's worth noting that there are usually a lot of banks to choose from, and many of them are private. With CBDC, everything is perfectly traceable and under direct Central Bank control, if I understand correctly.
But I should also note that it's just an experiment, and using this CBDC is a choice people can make (they aren't forced to switch to it, right?). Some people don't care about privacy and financial freedom, and it's also a choice. To them, CBDC can be an interesting thing to try.

Not yet forced, but what if one day governments make CBDC mandatory and you no longer have the ability to use cash?

At first it will be like an experiment, CBDC will be introduced gradually so that for more and more people it will become “convenient”, but in the end the main goal is to remove cash from circulation and leave only CBDC. Indeed, there are those who do not worry about their privacy, in addition, I am sure that, those who will use digital currencies, will be told about many advantages of this.

But what can be changed in this situation, is there any way to stop it?

[Wend]

I agree that a CBDC is largely another step away from financial freedom, and not only in comparison with cryptos like Bitcoin, but compared to fiat as well. When it comes to fiat, people can use cash and remain largely untraceable. If they use bank accounts, it's worth noting that there are usually a lot of banks to choose from, and many of them are private. With CBDC, everything is perfectly traceable and under direct Central Bank control, if I understand correctly.
But I should also note that it's just an experiment, and using this CBDC is a choice people can make (they aren't forced to switch to it, right?). Some people don't care about privacy and financial freedom, and it's also a choice. To them, CBDC can be an interesting thing to try.

Not yet forced, but what if one day governments make CBDC mandatory and you no longer have the ability to use cash?

At first it will be like an experiment, CBDC will be introduced gradually so that for more and more people it will become “convenient”, but in the end the main goal is to remove cash from circulation and leave only CBDC. Indeed, there are those who do not worry about their privacy, in addition, I am sure that, those who will use digital currencies, will be told about many advantages of this.

But what can be changed in this situation, is there any way to stop it?

Everything about CBDCs is still in beta and it will take a long time for CBDCs to become popular. But I agree with you that CBDC is inevitable and that it will completely replace cash in the future is almost certain. Furthermore, there will be no way to stop it because the government will deploy it whether we want to or not. And only those who invest in bitcoin, who value privacy, will see the harm of CBDCs. As for general users, they see this as a step forward in technology, and they will be ready to accept it when the government deploys it.

[harapan]

CBDC is the same thing as fiat. The only difference is one is a digital currency. 
So what ever the government can do to your bank account,  they can also do to your funds in form of CBDC.  At no point in anybody's life should he think this is anything different from fiat. 
The government criticised bitcoin for so long only to make a photocopy,  while keeping out all the great features of Bitcoin.   

The only reason why the government is creating CBDC is because they can't stop the growth of the cryto industry and they have seen that they could lose the fight if they don't do something about it. They're not doing it for the benefit of any people,  they're just want another way to be able to control it's people. 

[uneng]

What do you think, is CBDC being developed for the benefit of people or will it be directed against them? After this article, the scales, in my opinion, swung even more towards the total regulation of the financial life of people.

Of course it will work directly against common citizens who are the sheep of the society. They will be on the hands of the government more than they have ever been. And considering how thirsty this currently brazilian government is for raising taxes income and controlling the individuals closely, this CBDC will only give them more power they are desperate for to use in abusive ways. I'm just thankful to have Bitcoin as an alternative yet.

[Wind_FURY]

The whole point of a government / Central Bank issued CBDC is that the people lose ‘total control’ of their money. I mean most people won’t have a problem with every day purchases but they have the power to stop you buying certain products, stop you buying too much fuel if you use too much carbon. That’s where a CBDC leads to, authoritarianism, like China, social credit scores etc. I really hope CBDC’s do not happen, they will tax & know everything. If you fix a car for a neighbour for a small fee, they will know. They want to abolish cash, hopefully it doesn’t happen.

Another nefarious thing they could do is if you have a low credit score. They could program the system to disallow those people from spending too much until the debts are paid, which wouldn't be too bad to help control spending habits. Haha.

I have debated about Bitcoin having more value in a CBDC world a year ago, but no one truly got the context because most of the posters of the forum during that time thought CBDC is going to be a simple replacement for paper money without the programmability.

[tjtonmoy]

What do you think, is CBDC being developed for the benefit of people or will it be directed against them?

At least with fiat money, you can keep it to yourself. Yes, I know it's centralized so the value could be affected. But if we focus on this CBDC particularly, what the hell is going on with it? Being able to freeze/unfreeze the account? Change the amount of the CBDC? How is it for the benefit of people? This goes truly against that. They are trying to make it something that the central banks could use to totally control your life. Privacy? We have already lost it with digital fiat. Now CBDC is just more centralized and just a fancy name for another government product.

The government wants to control and power, and what's the best way to do it? CBDC! The government won't put this much effort to create something new while digital money and fiat money is just doing good as always. The government saw the opportunity and now they are taking advantage of it with this CBDC. As the data shows, they will have much more control than what they have right now. Also, they fear Bitcoin because it can take away that controlling power and hand it over to the other side.

It's not for the people, it's for those who are in power and controlling everyone.

[Fivestar4everMVP]

"Many in the cryptocurrency community have raised concerns that a CBDC has the potential to infringe on their financial freedom and encroach on their privacy." - This wording sounds in the article (from cointelegraph.com). To which, I can say that it is necessary to express not concern, but “sound the alarm”, because after such surprises in the CBDC source code, it will definitely be impossible to talk about any financial freedom and confidentiality.

Well, i think its high time we all realize that nothing patterning to the freedom of the people ever comes from the government, they can disguise all they want, tell lies upon lies, its only a foolish man that believe the government in this present time and age, like a movie i was watching yesterday, the lead character(i suppose) made a profound statement, he said when the government tells her citizen to relax, that everything is under control, that is when the citizens should arise and run for their lives.

I personally have always known that anything patterning to CBDC can never equal to the freedom of the people, its just another initiative clear the same as our current fiat system, if not even worst than the current fiat system we all are agitating to move away from.

[Inwestour]

Everything about CBDCs is still in beta and it will take a long time for CBDCs to become popular. But I agree with you that CBDC is inevitable and that it will completely replace cash in the future is almost certain. Furthermore, there will be no way to stop it because the government will deploy it whether we want to or not. And only those who invest in bitcoin, who value privacy, will see the harm of CBDCs. As for general users, they see this as a step forward in technology, and they will be ready to accept it when the government deploys it.

I saw on Twitter how buyers can pay for purchases using a retinal scan, I will provide a link to the video below:
https://twitter.com/HowThingsWork_/status/1681467136189816833



In fact, it's just terrible that these people agree to such a payment method, it can actually remove all questions about how pensioners and all people who do not understand technology will use CBDC. Their money will be in the bank account, and they will pay for purchases using the retinal scan. With this method, you can forget about confidentiality.

[m2017]

Everything about CBDCs is still in beta and it will take a long time for CBDCs to become popular. But I agree with you that CBDC is inevitable and that it will completely replace cash in the future is almost certain. Furthermore, there will be no way to stop it because the government will deploy it whether we want to or not. And only those who invest in bitcoin, who value privacy, will see the harm of CBDCs. As for general users, they see this as a step forward in technology, and they will be ready to accept it when the government deploys it.

I saw on Twitter how buyers can pay for purchases using a retinal scan, I will provide a link to the video below:
https://twitter.com/HowThingsWork_/status/1681467136189816833



In fact, it's just terrible that these people agree to such a payment method, it can actually remove all questions about how pensioners and all people who do not understand technology will use CBDC. Their money will be in the bank account, and they will pay for purchases using the retinal scan. With this method, you can forget about confidentiality.

People agree to this primarily because of the convenience. Electronic payments, whether it be a bank card or NFC (Near-Field Communication) is more convenient than cash. Attached a card or phone to the device and that's it, the payment received. No need to delve into your wallet, count, exchange, wait for the cashier to calculate, give change. It's quick and easy - that's what attracts people. And with payment using the retinal scan, here in general, you don’t even have to get a bank card or phone out of your pocket. I don't approve of this, but it looks like our world is inevitably heading in that direction. Laziness is a real engine of technology.

Human laziness and stupidity (indifference to one's freedom and privacy) will certainly lead to the spread of this terrible method of payment.

[Unbunplease]

 I think that at any time CBDC users could lose control of their money. It is quite likely that a certain code will have to be entered to access the money. If a person does not please the state in some way, access to CBDC can be quietly closed. CBDC is a digital concentration camp

[tygeade]

CBDCs are fiat money in digital form, there will be basically no difference as they are still controlled and regulated by the government. But there is a difference, fiat transactions will still become more private than CBDC. When you use CBDC, all the data about your assets will be entirely controlled by the government, but that is impossible if you hold a large amount of cash.

Apart from bitcoin, we should never expect any other currency that can give us privacy, especially those issued by the government, because that is what they need to control us.

I am pretty sure that there will be some differences in the laws, not going to be a major one but one of them is a digital and the other is not so it means that we shouldn't really be that much shocked about it in the end our fiat is quite digital as well.

We do not really see the current fiat currency in paper form all that commonly anymore, we just see it as cards right now, most of the people I know just pay with cards, only very very few people do not end up paying with cards and that means we are going to end up with something much better. I know that we are going to end up with some issues one way or another, but that doesn't mean that we are going to end up with a good or bad result one way or another.

[teosanru]

Isn't it very obvious that the CBDCs would have these features? I mean the intent of these countries which create CBDC is this only right? To get better control & accountability over the currency that is floating around in the economy, so if this is the case then how can you expect them to give complete autonomy to you? Moreover this is the very reason why the whole Crypto community knows that CBDC is as good as fiat only.

[Inwestour]

People agree to this primarily because of the convenience. Electronic payments, whether it be a bank card or NFC (Near-Field Communication) is more convenient than cash. Attached a card or phone to the device and that's it, the payment received. No need to delve into your wallet, count, exchange, wait for the cashier to calculate, give change. It's quick and easy - that's what attracts people. And with payment using the retinal scan, here in general, you don’t even have to get a bank card or phone out of your pocket. I don't approve of this, but it looks like our world is inevitably heading in that direction. Laziness is a real engine of technology.

Human laziness and stupidity (indifference to one's freedom and privacy) will certainly lead to the spread of this terrible method of payment.

Yes, it’s laziness and stupidity, it’s not difficult to guess that under this “convenience” there is total control over every step, every cent spent. Retinal scanning discouraged me in general, it's really stupid, but I see that it's even fun for buyers to pay in this way, this is a bad sign, the majority will accept all the innovations and be happy about it, and no one will think about the consequences until it's too late. I don’t know, any step against the state will endanger their finances, went out to some kind of protest, scan the retina from a drone and block all the money in the account. It may sound a little paranoid, but this is just one example.

[Gyfts]

I haven't taken a look at the source code, going by Pedro Magalhães assessment:

Blockchain's meant to be utilized as a trustless system IMO but all Brazil's done here is centralize the system with this alleged protocol. Under no circumstances should coins be burned from addresses nor should they be frozen. Assume it'll be abused by the government to compel compliance from their constituency and assume they'll try and market this as a cryptocurrency adjacent by throwing around the word "blockchain"

[Wind_FURY]

I haven't taken a look at the source code, going by Pedro Magalhães assessment:

Blockchain's meant to be utilized as a trustless system IMO but all Brazil's done here is centralize the system with this alleged protocol. Under no circumstances should coins be burned from addresses nor should they be frozen. Assume it'll be abused by the government to compel compliance from their constituency and assume they'll try and market this as a cryptocurrency adjacent by throwing around the word "blockchain"

His assessement is on point, and it has been happening in the cryptocurrency world for years. A "blockchain" without Proof Of Work as a consensus and a security mechanism is not an actual blockchain. A real blockchain should also be immutable. If there's a centralized authority deciding which coins get burned or which of them get frozen, then perhaps they should consider not wasting their time on "blockchain" and use a centralized database.

People agree to this primarily because of the convenience. Electronic payments, whether it be a bank card or NFC (Near-Field Communication) is more convenient than cash. Attached a card or phone to the device and that's it, the payment received. No need to delve into your wallet, count, exchange, wait for the cashier to calculate, give change. It's quick and easy - that's what attracts people. And with payment using the retinal scan, here in general, you don’t even have to get a bank card or phone out of your pocket. I don't approve of this, but it looks like our world is inevitably heading in that direction. Laziness is a real engine of technology.

Human laziness and stupidity (indifference to one's freedom and privacy) will certainly lead to the spread of this terrible method of payment.

Yes, it’s laziness and stupidity, it’s not difficult to guess that under this “convenience” there is total control over every step, every cent spent. Retinal scanning discouraged me in general, it's really stupid, but I see that it's even fun for buyers to pay in this way, this is a bad sign, the majority will accept all the innovations and be happy about it, and no one will think about the consequences until it's too late. I don’t know, any step against the state will endanger their finances, went out to some kind of protest, scan the retina from a drone and block all the money in the account. It may sound a little paranoid, but this is just one example.

The "convenience" part is not what's truly concerning about CBDCs. It's the fact that there's a central authority somewhere that could censor you from using the system. It could be a dangerously tyrannical tool - the opposite of Bitcoin's ethos.

[franky1]

funny part is if you want to look at many CBDC prototypes you can. the BIS and hyperledger have full examples
heck even china has released documentation about how their e-cny works

the easiest comparisons of many CBDB (mostly those bridged to the BIS m-bridge) are for want of a better comparison.. a liquid chain with a ln subnetwork (yes its no surprise many CBDC are using blockstream prototypes)

the liquid network is the federated proof of signature chain where funds are materialised by the fed and about a dozen payment processors(pboc central bank+ dozen commercial banks/payment services) that agree on new money creation.. and then having signed proof of creation to use on child transactions..
these signed transactions become the funding tx(parent) of the LN channel routes between the commercial banks
and then below that each commercial bank then create a sub channel(micropayment channels) give inbound balance to bank customers

there are usually 3 levels of sub channels.
a. no KYC, inbound balances of <$1k max channel liquidity (months labour max)
b. basic KYC, inbound balances of >$1kmin <$150k max channel liquidity (middle income/small business)
c. full KYC, inbound balances of >$150k min channel liquidity (rich/large business)

the (a) accounts are limited to a max amount at any one time. if you want to play with more balance. upgrade to the next level which requires KYC
the (a) is meant to be for basic 'cash' stuff like virtual visa's giftcards and other low priority stuff. where by those wanting savings accounts and t put wages into would ned a higher level account, the amount of the no KYC inbound balance is so low that they dont care about the administration and monitoring for stuff like terrorism becasue its small amounts so they just dont bother

even chinas e-cny work like this

where the PBOC(chinas central bank) do not see the daily transfers of any(a,b or c) of the channel routing upfront/live. its upto the commercial banks(routers) to monitor, log and report suspicious behaviour which is similar to the logging and reporting banks today have to do with fiat

the only reason their system is functionally working better than blockstreams LN is that there is only 12 hubs(factory channels) with the liquidity management. with known control/limits on liquidity, funding and payment routing control

[moneystery]

CBDC is actually fiat but in digital form controlled by the central government, what do we expect from a centralized system that is very vulnerable like this?

because it is centralized, meaning that the central bank can manage their products according to their wishes. Not even just freeze or unfreeze accounts, they can even track where the money is used, for what, and many other things, meaning that here you have no privacy for what you use. Even from this transaction data, the government can collect a lot of data that they can use for various purposes or they can sell it to third parties, who knows?

so is this CBDC better than fiat? of course not, because it only offers convenience, but for fiat privacy it still offers better privacy for various user transactions. And is it much better compared to cryptocurrencies? of course not, because cryptocurrencies are much better compared to CBDC and fiat.

[el kaka22]

Yes they can, do not listen to anyone who says otherwise because it is centralized and that means the central owners could end up withdrawing all of the money, it will have that function no matter what, or even reverse the whole chain as well if they want to.

People who go into this and buy into this should realize that they are trusting the creators of CBDC to protect their money as well, so if anything happens that would be because they trusted the wrong people. I know that's a sad thing to hear but the same is going on with the current stablecoins as well. There are tens of billions trusted into USDT team, tether company and if they do something wrong and lose your money then it's gone, you can't take it back and that's horrible to hear but true.

[DrBeer]

Everything about CBDCs is still in beta and it will take a long time for CBDCs to become popular. But I agree with you that CBDC is inevitable and that it will completely replace cash in the future is almost certain. Furthermore, there will be no way to stop it because the government will deploy it whether we want to or not. And only those who invest in bitcoin, who value privacy, will see the harm of CBDCs. As for general users, they see this as a step forward in technology, and they will be ready to accept it when the government deploys it.

I saw on Twitter how buyers can pay for purchases using a retinal scan, I will provide a link to the video below:
https://twitter.com/HowThingsWork_/status/1681467136189816833



In fact, it's just terrible that these people agree to such a payment method, it can actually remove all questions about how pensioners and all people who do not understand technology will use CBDC. Their money will be in the bank account, and they will pay for purchases using the retinal scan. With this method, you can forget about confidentiality.

Why do you resent it so much?! What's wrong with this place?
Enter the PIN code, NFC, swipe the magnetic tape through the terminal, put a fingerprint, scan the "face card" or retina - it's just a method of IDENTIFICATION, and confirmation of the payer at the cash register to the card from which the money will be withdrawn !
It's just a technology, a service. And no infringement on your eye or honor
Frankly speaking - I don't understand your indignation at all !
With such success it is possible to resent the data in the passport - photo, sex, date of birth and citizenship. But I hope there are no problems with it ?

[DrBeer]

People in the "cryptocurrency community" should know better than other people that CBDC is not offering anything fundamentally different from the fiat that they are already using every day. CBDC is another currency issued by the banks and both controlled and used through the banks which is practically similar to fiat which is also issued and controlled by the banks and almost always used through the banks (except when you use cash but who is these days?).

You already don't have any privacy when you use banks and using CBDC isn't going to change that.

CBDCs are other forms of fiat currencies and they all are created and controlled by central banks. In the past central banks print money from factories. In future with CBDCs, they will be minted from thin air, code and data centers.

[GUIDE] All About Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC)
How Money is made

The video How is Money Created? – Everything You Need to Know shows how fiat currencies can be printed from paper and why their purchasing power becomes smaller.

Purchasing power of the US. dollar over time

I'm gonna have to disappoint you a little bit. CBDC is the real evil, the evil that blockchain technology and the mega-popularity of cryptocurrencies have wrought. CBDC is not the digital equivalent of fiat, it's far worse. It's a solution that allows you to TOTALLY control and manage the flow of money. YOUR money.
You can read about the implementation of the Chinese version of CBDC, I'm sure other countries will take it for themselves and "armament" there is an interesting mechanism - blocking. Not the wallet. But tokens that are "marked" with different tags. For example - "believed to be a drug trafficker", or "engaged in anti-government activities".... CBDC is a centralized system, and the click of a national bank operator - and your coins - are not accepted by the blockchain, and everyone knows that the "marked coins" on the account - at any moment can be blocked.....

[franky1]

I'm gonna have to disappoint you a little bit. CBDC is the real evil, the evil that blockchain technology and the mega-popularity of cryptocurrencies have wrought. CBDC is not the digital equivalent of fiat, it's far worse. It's a solution that allows you to TOTALLY control and manage the flow of money. YOUR money.
You can read about the implementation of the Chinese version of CBDC, I'm sure other countries will take it for themselves and "armament" there is an interesting mechanism - blocking. Not the wallet. But tokens that are "marked" with different tags. For example - "believed to be a drug trafficker", or "engaged in anti-government activities".... CBDC is a centralized system, and the click of a national bank operator - and your coins - are not accepted by the blockchain, and everyone knows that the "marked coins" on the account - at any moment can be blocked.....

you might want to actually look at the chinese cbdc and not take some blog post opinion of it
the PBOC do not monitor the citizens money much like the US treasury does not monitor US FIAT of citizens
instead it delegates payment services(banks) to do the customer monitoring and registration and reporting.. much the same as the american fiat system of today

and before you refer me to many crap blog sites. ill inform you of many mis conceptions
a. china is not a one bank currency. they have many many payment services.
b. you dont need to register your life history and become a citizen to get an account.
c. the chinese government have not been "watching everything"

heres a trick for you to try. go to any travel agent/money exchange service people use for vacations and ask for some chinese yuan..
note that you do not have to become a chinese citizen and have biometrics and bloodtests and give social security details over to get yuan

my previous post is actually using the e-cny example. which is where commercial services like ali-pay, wepay, tencent and other who do the customer management side.

[wiss19]

A bad thing doesn't become good if someone covers it with goods and stuff that makes it look good, that is simply just a presentation and the thing being presented might not be what it is being presented as. Similarly, no matter how much they say it is for the benefit of people, they might create articles, and diagrams, try and explain everything to people trying to convince them that it is just like cryptocurrencies and they should use it, that wouldn't change anything.

A CBDC is nothing more than a digital fiat, it is not decentralized, and it doesn't work independently without anyone having any access to the transactions and balances and everything of everyone utilizing it. So, don't just listen to what says, simply understand that a CBDC is only to control the finances of people even more than before.

[Wind_FURY]

funny part is if you want to look at many CBDC prototypes you can. the BIS and hyperledger have full examples
heck even china has released documentation about how their e-cny works

the easiest comparisons of many CBDB (mostly those bridged to the BIS m-bridge) are for want of a better comparison.. a liquid chain with a ln subnetwork (yes its no surprise many CBDC are using blockstream prototypes)

 

There you go again frankandbeans. Spreading misinformation in a subtle way. Before you gaslight everyone into believing that Liquid/Lightning = Evil CBDC Supporting Protocol, let's make it clear that they are open source code for protocols that don't need any permission to be used how they want.

People in the "cryptocurrency community" should know better than other people that CBDC is not offering anything fundamentally different from the fiat that they are already using every day. CBDC is another currency issued by the banks and both controlled and used through the banks which is practically similar to fiat which is also issued and controlled by the banks and almost always used through the banks (except when you use cash but who is these days?).

You already don't have any privacy when you use banks and using CBDC isn't going to change that.

CBDCs are other forms of fiat currencies and they all are created and controlled by central banks. In the past central banks print money from factories. In future with CBDCs, they will be minted from thin air, code and data centers.

[GUIDE] All About Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC)
How Money is made

The video How is Money Created? – Everything You Need to Know shows how fiat currencies can be printed from paper and why their purchasing power becomes smaller.

Purchasing power of the US. dollar over time

I'm gonna have to disappoint you a little bit. CBDC is the real evil, the evil that blockchain technology and the mega-popularity of cryptocurrencies have wrought. CBDC is not the digital equivalent of fiat, it's far worse. It's a solution that allows you to TOTALLY control and manage the flow of money. YOUR money.

"Your money" in a CBDC system will not actually be your money. It's the absolute opposite of what Bitcoin is trying to be. It may be more efficient, more convenient and user-friendly, but it's not actual money. It's a mere token.

It might be good to have and use to live in the real world. But always HODL Bitcoin as a fall back.

[Knight Hider]

CBDC users can't lose control of their money because you can't lose what you don't have.

--Knight Hider

[jacafbiz]

CBDC is all about control because this is what the government wants, they want to control you perpetually, and I pity people voting for these people that are warming up to these policies. I know a lot of Government bodies are piloting their CBDC program, but if you looked at it, there is basically no need for this. If CBDC there is no way to hide because government controls your money, if they don't like you, they seized it, spend it for you and even cancel your account without notifying you, tools like these are very dangerous in the hands of politicians especially authoritarian governments. All we can do is to educate people on the danger of this and call these people out when they come for your votes

[Texac]

CBDC is all about control because this is what the government wants, they want to control you perpetually, and I pity people voting for these people that are warming up to these policies. I know a lot of Government bodies are piloting their CBDC program, but if you looked at it, there is basically no need for this. If CBDC there is no way to hide because government controls your money, if they don't like you, they seized it, spend it for you and even cancel your account without notifying you, tools like these are very dangerous in the hands of politicians especially authoritarian governments. All we can do is to educate people on the danger of this and call these people out when they come for your votes

Not too many people will realize that CBDC will control them more than the benefits it brings as the government claims.  most only bitcoin investors oppose this as they know that CBDC is a serious invasion of privacy.  As for ordinary citizens, they will only know how to obey the orders given by the government.  but like it or not, the CBDC will definitely be implemented, and we will have no way of stopping it because we can't go against the government. they don't need your vote to launch CBDC, they will launch it and oblige you to use it.

[Aanuoluwatofunmi]

CBDC is all about control because this is what the government wants, they want to control you perpetually, and I pity people voting for these people that are warming up to these policies. I know a lot of Government bodies are piloting their CBDC program, but if you looked at it, there is basically no need for this. If CBDC there is no way to hide because government controls your money, if they don't like you, they seized it, spend it for you and even cancel your account without notifying you, tools like these are very dangerous in the hands of politicians especially authoritarian governments. All we can do is to educate people on the danger of this and call these people out when they come for your votes

Not too many people will realize that CBDC will control them more than the benefits it brings as the government claims.  most only bitcoin investors oppose this as they know that CBDC is a serious invasion of privacy.  As for ordinary citizens, they will only know how to obey the orders given by the government.  but like it or not, the CBDC will definitely be implemented, and we will have no way of stopping it because we can't go against the government. they don't need your vote to launch CBDC, they will launch it and oblige you to use it.

CBDC is just a digital fiat currency and not cryptocurrency, which means that the government are in charge of this monetary system and the implementation of it policies, there's nothing different from the traditional currency we use with the commercial banks since the financial institutions were still the ones in charge of CBDC and the government coordinate them all, every risk involved with fiat are also applicable to CBDC, they can be hacked, controlled by government, make deductions from your account in form of charges, take you through KYC prices, intrude your privacy, inflate your transaction fees and track you down completely.

[Z390]

Sending Fiat digitally is everything that CBDC has to offer, users losing control of their money is less of my worry about this currency, it's about the users freedom that I care more about, are we going to keep our hard earned money just to ourselves without the central authorities wanting to know our worth? Or wanting to know what we use our money to purchase and where or who we send money to? This is my biggest concern about CBDC and it's why I won't even want to get involved in using CBDC.

[Unbunplease]

Sending Fiat digitally is everything that CBDC has to offer, users losing control of their money is less of my worry about this currency, it's about the users freedom that I care more about, are we going to keep our hard earned money just to ourselves without the central authorities wanting to know our worth? Or wanting to know what we use our money to purchase and where or who we send money to? This is my biggest concern about CBDC and it's why I won't even want to get involved in using CBDC.

Unfortunately, I believe that the issue of CBDC implementation has already been resolved at a high level. The state is doing everything to completely control the population. The digital concentration camp is getting closer (and in China it is already in full swing). Soon we will be expecting CBDC all over the world.

[pawel7777]

Unfortunately, I believe that the issue of CBDC implementation has already been resolved at a high level. The state is doing everything to completely control the population. The digital concentration camp is getting closer (and in China it is already in full swing). Soon we will be expecting CBDC all over the world.

Yeah, it seems like the decisions already have been made and they're dosing the news slowly so everyone can ease into the thought that it'll happen eventually.
What I wonder is if we'll see each individual country (with sovereign currency) being responsible for running and maintaining the CBDC systems, or will we see some central, global institution running the 'core' of it, with each country having some admin privileges to issue/burn its own coins.
We also know that anything centrally planned, which is not subject to free market scrutiny, tends to not function very well or even fail miserably, so we might experience some turbulent times in the not-so-far future.

[Cryptomultiplier]

CBDC is all about control because this is what the government wants, they want to control you perpetually, and I pity people voting for these people that are warming up to these policies. I know a lot of Government bodies are piloting their CBDC program, but if you looked at it, there is basically no need for this. If CBDC there is no way to hide because government controls your money, if they don't like you, they seized it, spend it for you and even cancel your account without notifying you, tools like these are very dangerous in the hands of politicians especially authoritarian governments. All we can do is to educate people on the danger of this and call these people out when they come for your votes

Not too many people will realize that CBDC will control them more than the benefits it brings as the government claims.  most only bitcoin investors oppose this as they know that CBDC is a serious invasion of privacy.  As for ordinary citizens, they will only know how to obey the orders given by the government.  but like it or not, the CBDC will definitely be implemented, and we will have no way of stopping it because we can't go against the government. they don't need your vote to launch CBDC, they will launch it and oblige you to use it.

CBDC is just a digital fiat currency and not cryptocurrency, which means that the government are in charge of this monetary system and the implementation of it policies, there's nothing different from the traditional currency we use with the commercial banks since the financial institutions were still the ones in charge of CBDC and the government coordinate them all, every risk involved with fiat are also applicable to CBDC, they can be hacked, controlled by government, make deductions from your account in form of charges, take you through KYC prices, intrude your privacy, inflate your transaction fees and track you down completely.

Any online monetary system these days are subject to scammers and hackers irrespective of the kind of KYC verification or security protocol involved. It's just the way it is. We are only still successfully using decentralized and centralized because to some extent, majority of the users are getting more aware and agencies have upgraded to track down criminals who launder money or hack the users account.

For CBDC users losing control, I hardly doubt that, because as the decentralized crypto currency network has been successful in implementation and execution, and not being controlled by any government, it would be a shame to the government of nations with CBDC initiative to fail. It wouldn't tell well.
CBDC is controlled by the central banks, and other monetary agencies which keep a 24hr open eye, inorder to monitor its growth and usership. The app may experience glitches from network interruptions, but I doubt it may be due to congestion. Any one can walk into the bank and request assistant also, if they got unexplained deductions and it would be resolved.
I don't think CBDC users can lose control of their money, because it is just a digital version of the bank account and it is a legal tender, which is strictly regulated.

[Unbunplease]

Yeah, it seems like the decisions already have been made and they're dosing the news slowly so everyone can ease into the thought that it'll happen eventually.
What I wonder is if we'll see each individual country (with sovereign currency) being responsible for running and maintaining the CBDC systems, or will we see some central, global institution running the 'core' of it, with each country having some admin privileges to issue/burn its own coins.
We also know that anything centrally planned, which is not subject to free market scrutiny, tends to not function very well or even fail miserably, so we might experience some turbulent times in the not-so-far future.

By the way, with the global implementation of CBDC, cryptocurrency may get a second chance. It is not a secret that states are going to use smart contracts, which will prescribe where a person can spend his CBDCs, and access to them can be blocked due to low social rating. Then the blocked person will have no other choice but to use cryptocurrencies to somehow survive

[TimeTeller]

Yeah, it seems like the decisions already have been made and they're dosing the news slowly so everyone can ease into the thought that it'll happen eventually.
What I wonder is if we'll see each individual country (with sovereign currency) being responsible for running and maintaining the CBDC systems, or will we see some central, global institution running the 'core' of it, with each country having some admin privileges to issue/burn its own coins.
We also know that anything centrally planned, which is not subject to free market scrutiny, tends to not function very well or even fail miserably, so we might experience some turbulent times in the not-so-far future.

By the way, with the global implementation of CBDC, cryptocurrency may get a second chance. It is not a secret that states are going to use smart contracts, which will prescribe where a person can spend his CBDCs, and access to them can be blocked due to low social rating. Then the blocked person will have no other choice but to use cryptocurrencies to somehow survive

This may pave the way of more crypto users not CBDC users. Because customers can gauge which one will be useful for them.
As they will see the disadvantages of holding their CBDC, people will get their attention on checking out other cryptocurrencies.
Since the government is already open with the use of crypto, the sentiment of these people towards crypto may change as well, which I think will be on the positive side.
A lot of people are hesitant to venture in crypto in the old days because of the notion that it was a scam, fraud or whatever they called it.
But now, they are seeing that large corporations and governments are endorsing the use of bitcoin and crypto in general.

[BenCodie]

Here's what was found there:

Okay, we all knew that freezing and unfreezing was a part of the CBDC deal (at least, anyone who knew why banks got hard over CBDCs...and we knew that money printing via clicking was likely going to pass too....but minting and burning currency from frozen addresses or increasing/decreasing balances no matter their state?

I can't wait to see the funky shit that banks, as well as corporations and governments (who I'm sure will be granted a level of permission to these functions) are going to do with this tech. Let's just hope that the blockchain is explorable and that the public will finally be able to audit fiat money/cbdc chains.

Oh, let's not forget the potential destruction of fiat from hacking, the infinite amount of forks that might occur after hacks, and the ongoing pressure of hacking related actions against CBDCs. That will be the funniest part of it all...and something that I am almost certain that is not being given a big enough budget in this plan to use CBDCs.

Fiat: The end is near
Bought to you by CBDCs and a central bank near you.

[Smartvirus]

Here's what was found there:

Tweet about it. Curious options, right?

"Many in the cryptocurrency community have raised concerns that a CBDC has the potential to infringe on their financial freedom and encroach on their privacy." - This wording sounds in the article (from cointelegraph.com).

What was the expectation?

It’s centralize and control is the whole point. For what is worth, we still operating some form of mobile banking and has got to operate just the way commercial banks do operate and that is, freezing and unfreezing of account, transferring coins as they deem fit and monitoring the transaction of users. It makes no difference. CBDC and mobile banking, it’s typically the same thing to me.

There still exists a huge difference between CBDC and cryptocurrency hence, the ideas which backs it up to be a competitor for the cryptocurrency innovation is very much wasted.

[Wind_FURY]

Here's what was found there:

Tweet about it. Curious options, right?

"Many in the cryptocurrency community have raised concerns that a CBDC has the potential to infringe on their financial freedom and encroach on their privacy." - This wording sounds in the article (from cointelegraph.com).

What was the expectation?

It’s centralize and control is the whole point. For what is worth, we still operating some form of mobile banking and has got to operate just the way commercial banks do operate and that is, freezing and unfreezing of account, transferring coins as they deem fit and monitoring the transaction of users. It makes no difference. CBDC and mobile banking, it’s typically the same thing to me.

There still exists a huge difference between CBDC and cryptocurrency hence, the ideas which backs it up to be a competitor for the cryptocurrency innovation is very much wasted.

I'm sorry ser, but you are very very wrong, and I'd advice you to be very careful in carrying that kind of thinking with you. A CBDC is a centrally programmable digital currency issued and controlled directly by the government itself. It's not like "mobile banking", it bypasses the banking system, and they should actually be made illegal. There should be a separation of Money and State.

[tbct_mt2]

I'm sorry ser, but you are very very wrong, and I'd advice you to be very careful in carrying that kind of thinking with you.

Maybe he should read [GUIDE] All About Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC)

A CBDC is a centrally programmable digital currency issued and controlled directly by the government itself. It's not like "mobile banking", it bypasses the banking system, and they should actually be made illegal. There should be a separation of Money and State.

CBDCs are from governments and central banks and I think they will be made legally at least in their nations. Their governments and central banks that create those CBDCs will accept their own CBDCs legally.

I guess you wanted to discuss that CBDCs will be considered as illegal at global scale. Like a CBDC in one nation will be considered as illegal in other nations or by IMF. Is it what you meant?

[YUriy1991]

CBDC is a digital currency issued by a central bank to be used as an alternative legal means of payment from other perspectives. With one-sided CBDC, it can threaten financial privacy and financial freedom, and the central bank will have a back door and very easy direct access to your bank account, and the means to monitor every digital transaction that is carried out is no exception.

So, in implementing CBDC, I think it is necessary to pay attention to economic conditions, technological readiness, community conditions, and applicable legal provisions with the aim that the implementation can run effectively and efficiently and accommodate community needs.

[fruktik]

CBDC is just a digital fiat currency and not cryptocurrency, which means that the government are in charge of this monetary system and the implementation of it policies, there's nothing different from the traditional currency we use with the commercial banks since the financial institutions were still the ones in charge of CBDC and the government coordinate them all, every risk involved with fiat are also applicable to CBDC, they can be hacked, controlled by government, make deductions from your account in form of charges, take you through KYC prices, intrude your privacy, inflate your transaction fees and track you down completely.

      Why was this digital currency created, which is never a crypt at all? "Managers" want to get even more control over people's cash flows. Not enough for them what they have today. More power over slaves and serfs. I don't see any other motives. Nevertheless, this picture clearly reflects the essence of the current situation. I won't change anything. It will get much worse.

[Wind_FURY]

I'm sorry ser, but you are very very wrong, and I'd advice you to be very careful in carrying that kind of thinking with you.

Maybe he should read [GUIDE] All About Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC)

A CBDC is a centrally programmable digital currency issued and controlled directly by the government itself. It's not like "mobile banking", it bypasses the banking system, and they should actually be made illegal. There should be a separation of Money and State.

CBDCs are from governments and central banks and I think they will be made legally at least in their nations. Their governments and central banks that create those CBDCs will accept their own CBDCs legally.

I guess you wanted to discuss that CBDCs will be considered as illegal at global scale. Like a CBDC in one nation will be considered as illegal in other nations or by IMF. Is it what you meant?

No, I literally mean that from a technical perspective - Direct programmability of a digital currency made by a centralized authority should be illegal. CBDC will be MORE tyrannical than the current, ALREADY, tyrannical financial system.

I believe that anyone involved in BitcoinTalk should spread more awareness about the challenges that CBDCs present in our financial freedom. Because it's obviously not just another form of "digital fiat".

[zasad@]

CBDC is a digital currency issued by a central bank to be used as an alternative legal means of payment from other perspectives. With one-sided CBDC, it can threaten financial privacy and financial freedom, and the central bank will have a back door and very easy direct access to your bank account, and the means to monitor every digital transaction that is carried out is no exception.

So, in implementing CBDC, I think it is necessary to pay attention to economic conditions, technological readiness, community conditions, and applicable legal provisions with the aim that the implementation can run effectively and efficiently and accommodate community needs.

I see the goal of launching the CBDC as destroying the entire global financial system. The main goal is to kill many small and middle banks that will not be able to compete due to the gradual restrictions with the introduction of CBDC. Only large banks will remain, and people will not replace how digital collars are put on them.

[coupable]

CBDC is a digital currency issued by a central bank to be used as an alternative legal means of payment from other perspectives. With one-sided CBDC, it can threaten financial privacy and financial freedom, and the central bank will have a back door and very easy direct access to your bank account, and the means to monitor every digital transaction that is carried out is no exception.

So, in implementing CBDC, I think it is necessary to pay attention to economic conditions, technological readiness, community conditions, and applicable legal provisions with the aim that the implementation can run effectively and efficiently and accommodate community needs.

I see the goal of launching the CBDC as destroying the entire global financial system. The main goal is to kill many small and middle banks that will not be able to compete due to the gradual restrictions with the introduction of CBDC. Only large banks will remain, and people will not replace how digital collars are put on them.

This is a good point when we think about it in the long term.  The adoption of these currencies individually will have an impact on the local currencies, and I think that this is what those countries are about to study.  Even the idea of ​​establishing a common currency within the framework of an alliance such as BRICS has encountered difficulties that prevent it from being realized.  The capitalist system suffers from crises that prevent it from developing easily with technological developments that can be used well.

[Dunamisx]

Maybe you can also learn more about why is the needs for decentralized digital currency and what government stand to achieve with their CBDC decision at last:

The US Congressman alerted for the need to place a ban over the use of the centralized bank digital currency (CBDC), Warren Davidson noted that CBDC is government new strategy to control finances and abuse the fairness in money distribution and utilization for their own benefits in other to have control over other people's financial asset.
https://twitter.com/WatcherGuru/status/1683193569014697984?t=A4jTS0JVpAIC_jYuoxqkLg&s=19

[DrBeer]

I'm gonna have to disappoint you a little bit. CBDC is the real evil, the evil that blockchain technology and the mega-popularity of cryptocurrencies have wrought. CBDC is not the digital equivalent of fiat, it's far worse. It's a solution that allows you to TOTALLY control and manage the flow of money. YOUR money.
You can read about the implementation of the Chinese version of CBDC, I'm sure other countries will take it for themselves and "armament" there is an interesting mechanism - blocking. Not the wallet. But tokens that are "marked" with different tags. For example - "believed to be a drug trafficker", or "engaged in anti-government activities".... CBDC is a centralized system, and the click of a national bank operator - and your coins - are not accepted by the blockchain, and everyone knows that the "marked coins" on the account - at any moment can be blocked.....

you might want to actually look at the chinese cbdc and not take some blog post opinion of it
the PBOC do not monitor the citizens money much like the US treasury does not monitor US FIAT of citizens
instead it delegates payment services(banks) to do the customer monitoring and registration and reporting.. much the same as the american fiat system of today

and before you refer me to many crap blog sites. ill inform you of many mis conceptions
a. china is not a one bank currency. they have many many payment services.
b. you dont need to register your life history and become a citizen to get an account.
c. the chinese government have not been "watching everything"

heres a trick for you to try. go to any travel agent/money exchange service people use for vacations and ask for some chinese yuan..
note that you do not have to become a chinese citizen and have biometrics and bloodtests and give social security details over to get yuan

my previous post is actually using the e-cny example. which is where commercial services like ali-pay, wepay, tencent and other who do the customer management side.

Everything sounds good, except for one thing - we talked about CBDC (national bank digital currency) and you give options for interacting with fiat funds.

I highly recommend to study the implementation of CBDC, and its functionality, and what is important - CONCEPTS. And immediately all questions will disappear. And it immediately becomes clear - this is a universal mechanism of total control, and control is total and all-round. What I mean ? This will be a total replacement of the fiat/non-cash yuan with a tokenized system close to blockchain technology but with a high level of centralized management. From monitoring ALL transactions to mechanisms for simple but complete blocking of funds of the "account holder"

[coupable]

Maybe you can also learn more about why is the needs for decentralized digital currency and what government stand to achieve with their CBDC decision at last:

The US Congressman alerted for the need to place a ban over the use of the centralized bank digital currency (CBDC), Warren Davidson noted that CBDC is government new strategy to control finances and abuse the fairness in money distribution and utilization for their own benefits in other to have control over other people's financial asset.

There are concerns that the lack of necessary legislation could lead to a wave of CBDCs that banks or financial institutions could be free to launch. The state alone cannot work on developing and launching this type of currency without entering into formulas and agreements with other financial institutions and defining the powers of each party.
In all analyzes and opinions, everyone raises the issue from the point of view of governments and legislators, due to the tacit conviction that users do not have the freedom of choice and therefore do not have the freedom to control their balances of those currencies since they are subject to the supervision of government control agencies. These currencies are the new face of fiat money and have nothing to do with the privacy or decentralization that characterizes cryptocurrencies.

[Catenaccio]

There are concerns that the lack of necessary legislation could lead to a wave of CBDCs that banks or financial institutions could be free to launch. The state alone cannot work on developing and launching this type of currency without entering into formulas and agreements with other financial institutions and defining the powers of each party.

They can be free to launch their CBDCs at their nations but their CBDCs will be restrictedly used in their countries only. To be accepted globally, it will be more complicated from global, continential, union regulations and politics too.

I believe global organizations will not easily accept national CBDCs under big pressure from giant nations like the USA, China, ... and being used only nationwide will not be so good for CBDCs.

[fruktik]

I see the goal of launching the CBDC as destroying the entire global financial system. The main goal is to kill many small and middle banks that will not be able to compete due to the gradual restrictions with the introduction of CBDC. Only large banks will remain, and people will not replace how digital collars are put on them.

         We've already been given digital collars. At any time, they can block all accounts and cards at the click of a finger. If there is no cash on hand, then this is simply the end of the physical existence of a person.
         Digital money is able to tighten this noose much more strongly and dictate absolutely any conditions to people. All this and went for many years. The population needs to be controlled somehow, and financial instruments are one of the best ways.

[Negotiation]

At present CBDC has expanded various activities and financial service delivery process for the rapid inclusion of financial services to the mainstream population as well as the marginalized population and the backward people in the society which has been mentioned in various financial reports at home and abroad but it will be difficult for the poor population. Because they don't know much about digital currency. The regulation of the financial sector on a global scale is very complex, so people's understanding of it is also very limited. This is why it is now important to educate people about digital currency and provide clear information about the practical importance of digital currency.

[Inwestour]

They can be free to launch their CBDCs at their nations but their CBDCs will be restrictedly used in their countries only. To be accepted globally, it will be more complicated from global, continential, union regulations and politics too.

I believe global organizations will not easily accept national CBDCs under big pressure from giant nations like the USA, China, ... and being used only nationwide will not be so good for CBDCs.

Just like cash, CBDC will have a local meaning only within the country, but this will be enough for control and digital currencies will perform their functions. Can the central bank block your funds? I think yes, the main disadvantage will be that the bank will be able to have access to your funds, now, by the way, this can also be done if you keep money in the bank on deposit. I don’t know if a situation is possible when wallets will be created for CBDC, in which it will be possible to store CBDC without access to them by the state, and most likely even in this case they can be tracked and, if necessary, blocked.

[Unbunplease]

At present CBDC has expanded various activities and financial service delivery process for the rapid inclusion of financial services to the mainstream population as well as the marginalized population and the backward people in the society which has been mentioned in various financial reports at home and abroad but it will be difficult for the poor population. Because they don't know much about digital currency. The regulation of the financial sector on a global scale is very complex, so people's understanding of it is also very limited. This is why it is now important to educate people about digital currency and provide clear information about the practical importance of digital currency.

We're talking about CBDC, not cryptocurrencies. These are completely different things. CBDC is, in fact, not a cryptocurrency, but something managed by government agencies. In fact, it's much better to use cashless payments than CBDC, because CBDC is unequivocally bad.

[mvdheuvel1983]

CBDC doesn't give you control over your money. It is no different from an online bank where you do not have keys. They can freeze, unfreeze, spy on you at anytime, any day and anywhere as long as you're using their CBDC. Your life is basically under their control and they can do with it whatever pleases them.

[BRINIRHA]

CBDC doesn't give you control over your money. It is no different from an online bank where you do not have keys. They can freeze, unfreeze, spy on you at anytime, any day and anywhere as long as you're using their CBDC. Your life is basically under their control and they can do with it whatever pleases them.

We may feel constantly watched and indeed we will be continuously watched when we are fully using CBDC. Well even we will indeed lose full control of our own assets. Although at this point maybe CBDC is just an option for digital fiat. But if one day this is applied in totality then I might also think that freedom and privacy really don't exist anymore regarding our assets in digital fiat. But unfortunately I feel that people out there are not too aware of things like this. They will obey and accept the new system without much finding out. Maybe even more people are excited about CBDCs right now. Maybe it's the practicality and speed of transactions that fill their minds. So they forget about the importance of privacy. But even now people who keep all their money in the bank are of course under clear surveillance. But CBDC makes things much easier to monitor.

[Marvell1]

CBDC doesn't give you control over your money. It is no different from an online bank where you do not have keys. They can freeze, unfreeze, spy on you at anytime, any day and anywhere as long as you're using their CBDC. Your life is basically under their control and they can do with it whatever pleases them.

We may feel constantly watched and indeed we will be continuously watched when we are fully using CBDC. Well even we will indeed lose full control of our own assets. Although at this point maybe CBDC is just an option for digital fiat. But if one day this is applied in totality then I might also think that freedom and privacy really don't exist anymore regarding our assets in digital fiat. But unfortunately I feel that people out there are not too aware of things like this. They will obey and accept the new system without much finding out. Maybe even more people are excited about CBDCs right now. Maybe it's the practicality and speed of transactions that fill their minds. So they forget about the importance of privacy. But even now people who keep all their money in the bank are of course under clear surveillance. But CBDC makes things much easier to monitor.

Privacy is still a strange thing to many people, what people are more concerned about in this day and age is to make a lot of money and then brag to everyone that they are rich instead of trying to hide it. So it is not surprising that they will quickly adopt CBDC without any resistance.
Quite frankly, privacy has only become a concern for us in recent years, to be more precise, since the advent of bitcoin. Therefore, only bitcoin users know to truly value their privacy.
I also didn't like this from the very beginning when I heard about the concept of a government CBDC, but CBDC will be something we can't avoid, it's inevitable because the government knows its benefits to them.

[bangjoe]

CBDC certainly has the limits and control or supervision of government financial institutions, so if the CBDC comes from washing and or detected in the activities that are prohibited in the country, of course the government can block its CBDC, because the concept of CBDC is more scary than Fiat, in the article of Fiat We can still use it with a secret because there are no traces of anyone's hands, or traces of transactions.
It is quite possible that someone who has CBDC, they can lose its control.

But what is the power of someone who does not understand this financial concept, will always adopt it easily.

[sokani]

What do you think, is CBDC being developed for the benefit of people or will it be directed against them? After this article, the scales, in my opinion, swung even more towards the total regulation of the financial life of people.

CBDCs are just enhanced fiats, it's no doubt better than fiats and it would help to checkmate some the recurring issues in the financial sector. For example, there are no fake CBDCs so the issue of counterfeits would be put to bed, it would help to cut down the large budget or expenses needed to print cash and would also come handy in checkmating tax evasion. Aside the above mentioned point, I don't really see much it has to offer. CBDC is centralized, thus it's going to be used as a tool by the authorities to manipulate the masses. With CBDC, you are not in custody of your funds, the government can track, freeze or transfer your digital currency at any time.

[Alpha Marine]

The population needs to be controlled somehow, and financial instruments are one of the best ways.

Control is the sole reason they're launching the CBDC. They have seen that Bitcoin will make it very difficult for them to control the financial life of people so they created something else
What I find funny is that CBDC is just a centralized Bitcoin. It's funny because they criticize and fight Bitcoin with all they got only to create a copy for themselves.
There is absolutely no reason to trust CBDC over Bitcoin, no reason whatsoever.

[Unbunplease]

Control is the sole reason they're launching the CBDC. They have seen that Bitcoin will make it very difficult for them to control the financial life of people so they created something else
What I find funny is that CBDC is just a centralized Bitcoin. It's funny because they criticize and fight Bitcoin with all they got only to create a copy for themselves.
There is absolutely no reason to trust CBDC over Bitcoin, no reason whatsoever.

The main question is how to resist the introduction of CBDC?  Now they are doing it cautiously, but later they will force CBDC application, especially in budgetary spheres. And budgetary employees today make up more than half of the working population

[pixie85]

CBDCs are just enhanced fiats, it's no doubt better than fiats and it would help to checkmate some the recurring issues in the financial sector. For example, there are no fake CBDCs so the issue of counterfeits would be put to bed, it would help to cut down the large budget or expenses needed to print cash and would also come handy in checkmating tax evasion. Aside the above mentioned point, I don't really see much it has to offer. CBDC is centralized, thus it's going to be used as a tool by the authorities to manipulate the masses. With CBDC, you are not in custody of your funds, the government can track, freeze or transfer your digital currency at any time.

You say that CBDC is better than cash because it's cheap to make and helps prevent tax evasion... This is some strong left propaganda that I'm reading, worthy of an authoritarian socialist.

On one hand we go green, no more trees being cut and all that crap, except that money isn't made from paper... On the other hand we control the money flow, know what you buy, where and when. If you by any chance decide to go against us, you'll have your money taken away. No more protesting or you'll have to beg for food and even others won't be able to send you money because we'll block your personalized account. They'll have to buy food and give it to you.

CBDC is in serious breach of basic human rights to privacy and being able to support whatever parties and organizations they choose.

[Wind_FURY]

Maybe you can also learn more about why is the needs for decentralized digital currency and what government stand to achieve with their CBDC decision at last:

The US Congressman alerted for the need to place a ban over the use of the centralized bank digital currency (CBDC), Warren Davidson noted that CBDC is government new strategy to control finances and abuse the fairness in money distribution and utilization for their own benefits in other to have control over other people's financial asset.

There are concerns that the lack of necessary legislation could lead to a wave of CBDCs that banks or financial institutions could be free to launch. The state alone cannot work on developing and launching this type of currency without entering into formulas and agreements with other financial institutions and defining the powers of each party.
In all analyzes and opinions, everyone raises the issue from the point of view of governments and legislators, due to the tacit conviction that users do not have the freedom of choice and therefore do not have the freedom to control their balances of those currencies since they are subject to the supervision of government control agencies. These currencies are the new face of fiat money and have nothing to do with the privacy or decentralization that characterizes cryptocurrencies.

What's bad for the people's freedom to transact actually increases the need for financial assets that are built with censorship-resistance and permissionlessness in mind to help the individual become more ungovernable and self-sovereign. We can't just accept tyranny to rule over the world, no?

If only there was such an asset invented.

[franky1]

What's bad for the people's freedom to transact actually increases the need for financial assets that are built with censorship-resistance and permissionlessness in mind to help the individual become more ungovernable and self-sovereign. We can't just accept tyranny to rule over the world, no?

If only there was such an asset invented.

just a shame when such people as yourself then want to tell people to lock up that self sovereign currency. to then go play with another network of middlemen that is the sandbox network design of most CBDC(blockstream were not paid hundreds of millions of dollars out of donated generosity.. it was a sponsored investment by the institutions to want to get a prototype they can use(research hyperledger-blockstream.. hyperledger-CBDC))

ill give you a few years to ponder that in a shower.. but this time clean your head and really rinse your head of all the stuff thats been put into it .. dont use your favourite branded shampoo, (emphasis on the sham.. and emphasis on the poo)

[Aanuoluwatofunmi]

CBDC doesn't give you control over your money. It is no different from an online bank where you do not have keys. They can freeze, unfreeze, spy on you at anytime, any day and anywhere as long as you're using their CBDC. Your life is basically under their control and they can do with it whatever pleases them.

CBDC is thesame thing as their fiat which they have dubbed to also appears in digital form and is not cryptocurrency, the same right government have over fiat notes they also possess on every user of CBDC, why then should someone waste time on them when there are many opportunities that lies with the adoption of bitcoin Which is a decentralized digital currency everyone wants to have for an investment and digital cryptocurrency to use for their payment and store of value.

[m2017]

There are concerns that the lack of necessary legislation could lead to a wave of CBDCs that banks or financial institutions could be free to launch. The state alone cannot work on developing and launching this type of currency without entering into formulas and agreements with other financial institutions and defining the powers of each party.

They can be free to launch their CBDCs at their nations but their CBDCs will be restrictedly used in their countries only. To be accepted globally, it will be more complicated from global, continential, union regulations and politics too.

I believe global organizations will not easily accept national CBDCs under big pressure from giant nations like the USA, China, ... and being used only nationwide will not be so good for CBDCs.

CBDC are created for internal control and, of course, will not be used for settlements between other countries. This is a replacement for national currencies. For example, it is impossible to pay with the Turkish lira anywhere in French Polynesia, because the laws of each country state that the only legal tender in the country is only the national currency. In Turkey, the lira, in Polynesia, the franc, and so on. That is, I assume that in each of the countries in the future there will be CBDC-TRY, CBDC-CFP and the like, which will be in use only in one particular country of their origin.

And if we talk about a single and global CBDC (it is impossible to predict whether there will be one single global CBDC at all), then this adoption should be delayed, because of:

To be accepted globally, it will be more complicated from global, continential, union regulations and politics too.

as you say. It will not be easy for countries to agree on this, and perhaps the result of this will be a digital dollar or euro, and maybe the yuan (or some other currency).

[Iroh]

CBDC is thesame thing as their fiat which they have dubbed to also appears in digital form and is not cryptocurrency, the same right government have over fiat notes they also possess on every user of CBDC, why then should someone waste time on them when there are many opportunities that lies with the adoption of bitcoin Which is a decentralized digital currency everyone wants to have for an investment and digital cryptocurrency to use for their payment and store of value.

I think having cold hard cash is far better than CBDCs. Admittedly, both are more or less the same but with CBDCs, you literally have very little to no control over your funds. The control you think you’ve got over your money is the one the government allows you to have. And even that could be revoked at any time as the government could decide at any time to disrupt, end or limit your purchasing power.
I wouldn’t fault anyone that’s seemingly “wasting time” on CBDCs. If the apex bank of any country in compliance with the government decides to implement CBDCs as a mode of payment, citizens of the country would just have to use it.

[BRINIRHA]

CBDC doesn't give you control over your money. It is no different from an online bank where you do not have keys. They can freeze, unfreeze, spy on you at anytime, any day and anywhere as long as you're using their CBDC. Your life is basically under their control and they can do with it whatever pleases them.

We may feel constantly watched and indeed we will be continuously watched when we are fully using CBDC. Well even we will indeed lose full control of our own assets. Although at this point maybe CBDC is just an option for digital fiat. But if one day this is applied in totality then I might also think that freedom and privacy really don't exist anymore regarding our assets in digital fiat. But unfortunately I feel that people out there are not too aware of things like this. They will obey and accept the new system without much finding out. Maybe even more people are excited about CBDCs right now. Maybe it's the practicality and speed of transactions that fill their minds. So they forget about the importance of privacy. But even now people who keep all their money in the bank are of course under clear surveillance. But CBDC makes things much easier to monitor.

Privacy is still a strange thing to many people, what people are more concerned about in this day and age is to make a lot of money and then brag to everyone that they are rich instead of trying to hide it. So it is not surprising that they will quickly adopt CBDC without any resistance.
Quite frankly, privacy has only become a concern for us in recent years, to be more precise, since the advent of bitcoin. Therefore, only bitcoin users know to truly value their privacy.
I also didn't like this from the very beginning when I heard about the concept of a government CBDC, but CBDC will be something we can't avoid, it's inevitable because the government knows its benefits to them.

So true. Even today's young people don't seem to care too much about privacy. In fact, they prefer to share their private lives on social media. So of course they also won't care about a system that actually exposes their own financial privacy. Because from the beginning they did not care about financial privacy. And we also probably won't be able to avoid not using CBDC in the future. Because it is possible that physical fiat will become increasingly rare and one day it may even be withdrawn from circulation. But for now CBDC is just another option. So we can still avoid it. But with Bitcoin we can still store our assets safely without having to worry about our privacy.

[Unbunplease]

I think having cold hard cash is far better than CBDCs. Admittedly, both are more or less the same but with CBDCs, you literally have very little to no control over your funds. The control you think you’ve got over your money is the one the government allows you to have. And even that could be revoked at any time as the government could decide at any time to disrupt, end or limit your purchasing power.
I wouldn’t fault anyone that’s seemingly “wasting time” on CBDCs. If the apex bank of any country in compliance with the government decides to implement CBDCs as a mode of payment, citizens of the country would just have to use it.

Even if we are mandated to use CBDC, there will still be cryptocurrency. If CEX is destroyed, there will still be DEX. Of course, things may become more complicated than they were in the early days of cryptocurrencies, but everything is surmountable if you approach the issue in the right way

[Iroh]

Even if we are mandated to use CBDC, there will still be cryptocurrency. If CEX is destroyed, there will still be DEX. Of course, things may become more complicated than they were in the early days of cryptocurrencies, but everything is surmountable if you approach the issue in the right way

Of course there would still be bitcoin and perhaps other alt coins as well. I think the government, seeing how bitcoin has and is still going on strong despite some strong measures that has been put in place in order to prevent its adoption and usage, decided to create these CBDCs perhaps to rival the dominance of bitcoin in the near and distant future.
If/when the era of printed money is nearing its end, then perhaps citizens would then be mandated and left with little choice than to adopt the use of these CBDCs for their financial transactions.

[Wind_FURY]

What's bad for the people's freedom to transact actually increases the need for financial assets that are built with censorship-resistance and permissionlessness in mind to help the individual become more ungovernable and self-sovereign. We can't just accept tyranny to rule over the world, no?

If only there was such an asset invented.

just a shame when such people as yourself then want to tell people to lock up that self sovereign currency. to then go play with another network of middlemen that is the sandbox network design of most CBDC(blockstream were not paid hundreds of millions of dollars out of donated generosity.. it was a sponsored investment by the institutions to want to get a prototype they can use(research hyperledger-blockstream.. hyperledger-CBDC))

ill give you a few years to ponder that in a shower.. but this time clean your head and really rinse your head of all the stuff thats been put into it .. dont use your favourite branded shampoo, (emphasis on the sham.. and emphasis on the poo)

 

There goes frankandbeans again, purposefully taking my posts out of context, and gaslighting the public into believing that I'm the villain and he's the "Anti-Hero" saving Bitcoin from the "Evil Core Developers".

Laughable.

Everyone just needs to look and read the comments in your trust rating to know what you actually are. You're a fiend who never actually cared for Bitcoin, what the community decided during the scaling debate, nor for the design decisions made by the Core Developers to maintain decentralization.

[beerlover]

Even today's young people don't seem to care too much about privacy. In fact, they prefer to share their private lives on social media. So of course they also won't care about a system that actually exposes their own financial privacy. Because from the beginning they did not care about financial privacy. And we also probably won't be able to avoid not using CBDC in the future. Because it is possible that physical fiat will become increasingly rare and one day it may even be withdrawn from circulation. But for now CBDC is just another option. So we can still avoid it. But with Bitcoin we can still store our assets safely without having to worry about our privacy.

I have to be honest, I remember back in 2004 and following years we started to use Facebook as well. Sure it wasn't like how it is today, today it's much more wider and a lot more people use it, but I remember clearly people around my age found out about it and they ended up doing something like facebook where they shared all their information from face pictures to where we went to what we think to our birthdate and everything else.

Think about it, people really didn't know what to do and that's the problem. I hope that people realize that it's not going to be that easy but should be important to see where it's going to lead and we didn't and this resulted with things go further and now we have the tiktok age where kids use that instead.

[franky1]

Everyone just needs to look and read the comments in your trust rating to know what you actually are. You're a fiend who never actually cared for Bitcoin, what the community decided during the scaling debate, nor for the design decisions made by the Core Developers to maintain decentralization.

"core devs maintaining" is not decentralisation.. even their brand name debunks your theory
CORE=CENTER

core(2014-18) was blockstream managed, whom received hundreds of millions of dollars. this money was not random generous donations from hoards of random individuals. its was a structured investment deal from corporations ..

also the community did not decide.. all user nodes did not need to upgrade to vote. the "backward" trick ensured the community didnt need to decide. but for the false vote of UASF, they did not even achieve a 20% vote

instead it was cores sponsors (NYA) that made the decisions and that also relied on a MANDATORY activation method.. dont play dumb now.. over many topics you have been shown the charts of the blockdata flags which reference what caused what. dont play ignorant or forgetful.. the blockchain is immutable it cant be edited to fit your silly narrative nor anyone else's.. the data is the data.. the best source there is.. use it

its better you use data of the immutable blockchain and code as a source, not your social drama buddy group to put gas into you and then fear someone else burning you when others enlighten you

again its time you do your research

have you even bothered looking at blockdata, code, the sponsors, hyperledger. if not then you are not great at seeking the connections and data.

learn something, escape the gas chamber then you wont get gaslit or burned.

[Wimex]

Banks only want to try to imitate cryptocurrencies, but with the distinction of being able to control these digital assets, and although this may seem appealing to people because they can use it legally, in the end, they will be exposed to not being able to manipulate them when they want or how they want. . The point here is that we cannot compare CBDCs with cryptocurrencies, especially bitcoin, just because they use blokchain, since they are totally different, their first distinction is that one is centralized and the other is not, therefore, even though they want to promote your project and deceive more than one, intelligent users who know that financial freedom without any intermediate is much better, will not use it. And for obvious reasons, if they could lose control of their digital money, nothing in the hands of the government or in the event of the banks, it is safe from being stolen overnight just because they want,  the security in  these system  not that good.

[Wind_FURY]

Everyone just needs to look and read the comments in your trust rating to know what you actually are. You're a fiend who never actually cared for Bitcoin, what the community decided during the scaling debate, nor for the design decisions made by the Core Developers to maintain decentralization.

"core devs maintaining" is not decentralisation.. even their brand name debunks your theory
CORE=CENTER

It's just a name/label.

But what do you propose, frankandbeans? That development should have no order, no organization? Are you proposing those developers from Bitcoin Unlimited, Bitcoin ABC, and BCash should be given authority to commit code to the main repository? To the same people who tried to co-opt Bitcoin and fork it away from the Core Developers? That's a very funny joke, ser.

[Aanuoluwatofunmi]

Banks only want to try to imitate cryptocurrencies, but with the distinction of being able to control these digital assets

If they are deceiving us then we also refused to be deceived because we know what we want, CBDC is not bitcoin or cryptocurrency, one can only call it along to be a digital currency but this time, CBDC is a digital fiat while bitcoin a digital decentralized currency in cryptocurrency, government controlled currency cannot be as volatile as cryptocurrency, that controls and authority government has over the use of fiat is what led to people seeking for alternative means with bitcoin in cryptocurrency so they can control their own currency.

[jaberwock]

"core devs maintaining" is not decentralisation.. even their brand name debunks your theory
CORE=CENTER

It's just a name/label.

But what do you propose, frankandbeans? That development should have no order, no organization? Are you proposing those developers from Bitcoin Unlimited, Bitcoin ABC, and BCash should be given authority to commit code to the main repository? To the same people who tried to co-opt Bitcoin and fork it away from the Core Developers? That's a very funny joke, ser.

I feel like bitcoin and all the other coins should not have developers at all, that's it. I know that there is a need for development and improvement from people, but we could always do that as an offer, not as a payment reason. Look at altcoins right now, there are million altcoins with devs at the top getting all the money and people are losing money, do we want bitcoin to become like that one day?

Of course not, which means that we could get rid of all the "pay me to build you something better" mindset and we could do something that is much better on the long run. I hope that it can be done differently and it could be improved upon but if you keep doing something that would be even wilder and better and seems reasonable.

[pawel7777]

I feel like bitcoin and all the other coins should not have developers at all, that's it. I know that there is a need for development and improvement from people, but we could always do that as an offer, not as a payment reason. Look at altcoins right now, there are million altcoins with devs at the top getting all the money and people are losing money, do we want bitcoin to become like that one day?

Of course not, which means that we could get rid of all the "pay me to build you something better" mindset and we could do something that is much better on the long run. I hope that it can be done differently and it could be improved upon but if you keep doing something that would be even wilder and better and seems reasonable.

Lol, what are you even talking about?

The problem with altcoins' "devs" scamming people is that they're usually the ones creating tokens and allocating a huge portion to themselves as dev funds. Then they try to hype up their projects, and when there's a market with enough liquidity, they start dumping on "investors" and often disappear afterward. This is known as a "rug pull".
This is simply not the case with Bitcoin. There are no bitcoins sitting there in the development fund. Devs are either doing their work for free, getting paid by donations, or earning money from Bitcoin-related businesses, so they have vested interest in the Bitcoin network working well.

I think you may have a wrong idea of what the word "developer" means, otherwise you wouldn't be proposing not having them at all.

[gunhell16]

As the title said, there is a high possibility that it is true, it seems that cbdc is no different from fiat that is controlled by the country's government, it just became digital. So for me that cbdc is just a joke to be honest. Although, it somehow helps in the adoption of cryptocurrency, that's all, of course, it's still under centralization.

This is where the cbdc will really fall in the regulation, I just don't know if there is anyone else here who has the same understanding as I think about that matter. Of course the government will take advantage of that happening.

[franky1]

It's just a name/label.

But what do you propose, frankandbeans? That development should have no order, no organization? Are you proposing those developers from Bitcoin Unlimited, Bitcoin ABC, and BCash should be given authority to commit code to the main repository? To the same people who tried to co-opt Bitcoin and fork it away from the Core Developers? That's a very funny joke, ser.

windfury.. you have never said anything at all in this entire forum that was not first instructed to be said by your mentor or his forum wife.. so please try to for once get a mind of your own so you could possibly come up with idea's, and also where you can learn from the community instead of your forum daddy and mom admirers

secondly. if you continue thinking the only teams are core vs bitcoin unlimited/ABC then you really have been indoctrinated into dumbness.. there are hundreds of thousands of dev in thousands of teams some are not even in teams.. LEARN the words independence. diversity. decentralisation. zero points of failure

thirdly you dont need a monarchy/tyrannical style of organisation.. which core has made for itself..
instead individuals can be individual and have the ability to individually propose stuff without a centralised sanitised moderated system of mandated control. instead idea's should flourish and have levels of progression when they get recognition whereby for instance instead of one node brand owning the network. there would be multiple brans and even individual options. and they all have a pathway to propose upgrades to the network. where by those proposals are shared with other brands/individuals. and develop in both progress and compromise into something all brands like and enjoy and all offer..
thus achieving a majority acceptance to then activate

you think the only option(well your mentor taught you to think) the only option is core and anything else is a rival.. as your quote portrays your ill-conceived notion that its core vs enemy notion
..
you are so deluded about bitcoin history, bitcoins ability and the path bitcoin could go and the path bitcoin went, that you are not even seeing who is behind the decisions. because if you did know you would see the corporate puppetry which you then cry about in this topic

as for this topic. you have even less clue about CBDC again you seem to be getting your info from an idiot source and not from any real research. you lack even the basic understanding of how any of the current CBDC prototypes in existence function.

its time you spend less times sounding like your mentors echo and spend some time actually learning how things work and how things progress and make some decisions for yourself without your mentor informing you of an opinion you should follow.

if you really want to learn about CBDC then go to the sources, the BIS with their M-bridge and prototype connecting CBDC's and the hyperledger project

and ill give you a tip
even a central bank of current fiat and new CBDC fiat do not have politicians or central bank CEO sat at a computer watching everyone..
in old and new fiats they all support delegating that task to partnered(licenced) commercial banks. where is the commercial banks that monitor their own customers and only report the bad ones to the higher levels

learn this stuff

then learn how bitcoins controlled development went a certain direction in 2017 and the causes and who paid for the sponsorship of that direction.. and the tip is.. it was not "the community"

[someone703]

but the government still has the right to access and manage the currency, regardless of whether it is fiat or CBDC. They are responsible for managing and disposing of the property of the people in certain cases. So the possibility that the government controls people's money could be to pool it in the national treasury and use it for projects that improve people's lives. As for how they will be used, it is impossible to know, that is managed by the government to use it for their specific purposes.

[franky1]

but the government still has the right to access and manage the currency, regardless of whether it is fiat or CBDC. They are responsible for managing and disposing of the property of the people in certain cases. So the possibility that the government controls people's money could be to pool it in the national treasury and use it for projects that improve people's lives. As for how they will be used, it is impossible to know, that is managed by the government to use it for their specific purposes.

most CBDC have national reserves in a multisig style. between the central bank and commercial bank. this is the distributed ledger controlled and distributed between the central bank and commercial bank, where its less of a blockchain and just a chain of UTXO updating the last state.. which this distributed ledger of an updated multisig  is where they invent new money and control total supply
below that is a separate network of the commercial banks having "payment channels" re-organising the IOU of the reserves between each other
and below that is the communication channels between customer and commercial banks that then have customers request their bank to route the balance through the commercial bank channels to other banks and thus other customers(destination)

both in law and in practice(if people researched CBDC and FIAT) central bank does not just shut down a citizen/user
in both old fiat and CBDC the commercial bank(middlemen) monitor its customers.. report those bad customers up the level and then if a court order tells them to freeze and seize a customers balance then they will

no bank just steal funds for no reason. a commercial bank can have its own policy to stop servicing a customer but has to give the option for the customer to remove funds and go elsewhere. again only if reported for suspicious activity and then receiving a court order allowing the courts to seize the funds would a customer be at a loss..

do not confuse this with situations where unregulated boiler room scammy services that just shut down or steal funds..

its also worth noting even china's CBDC is not where the chinese PBOC has control of citizens funds nor watches them all. instead then china has a list of a dozen commercial banks that have the commercial banks managing their customers and only reporting the suspicious customers. chinas CBDC even has accounts that dont need KYC, achieved by having a set limit on the im bound(balance) for a customer, thus people can still transact between different people and services without thinking its just one bank controls all

its worth people actually looking into this stuff to find the real flaws of real prototypes rather then sounding like idiots making up false fears of false problems thus by unhelpful in actually raising the real points of issues and functions

[Wind_FURY]

It's just a name/label.

But what do you propose, frankandbeans? That development should have no order, no organization? Are you proposing those developers from Bitcoin Unlimited, Bitcoin ABC, and BCash should be given authority to commit code to the main repository? To the same people who tried to co-opt Bitcoin and fork it away from the Core Developers? That's a very funny joke, ser.

windfury.. you have never said anything at all in this entire forum that was not first instructed to be said by your mentor or his forum wife.. so please try to for once get a mind of your own so you could possibly come up with idea's, and also where you can learn from the community instead of your forum daddy and mom admirers

 

And you have never made one honest post in the forum. It was my mistake to say that you're one of the people to learn from. Maybe one to learn from THE HARD WAY because everything you teach is WRONG.

Everyone should go to your trust page and read what gmaxwell and achow101 wrote, and ask themselves why they wrote them and who to trust.

but the government still has the right to access and manage the currency, regardless of whether it is fiat or CBDC. They are responsible for managing and disposing of the property of the people in certain cases. So the possibility that the government controls people's money could be to pool it in the national treasury and use it for projects that improve people's lives. As for how they will be used, it is impossible to know, that is managed by the government to use it for their specific purposes.

Do they? Really? I believe not, or should not. The government doesn't have 24/7 access to your cash, they can't monitor all your transactions with it, and it's fungible and private. A CBDC removes all that.

[DooMAD]

Was heading down the M1 (a major motorway for those not from the UK), and saw some graffiti painted onto a bridge saying "Say no to CBDCs".  I didn't get time to snap a photo.  A few people have mentioned it on twitter and there's also an FT article (but it's behind a paywall).  Looks like there are people out there hoping to spread the message.

[pawel7777]

Was heading down the M1 (a major motorway for those not from the UK), and saw some graffiti painted onto a bridge saying "Say no to CBDCs".  I didn't get time to snap a photo.  A few people have mentioned it on twitter and there's also an FT article (but it's behind a paywall).  Looks like there are people out there hoping to spread the message.

This one?:

credit to r/BitcoinUK

It's always nice when people take actions but we need some proper, informational actions of the dangers of implementing CBDCs, otherwise masses will be quick to dismiss any warnings as tin-foil hat conspiracy theory.

[DooMAD]

Was heading down the M1 (a major motorway for those not from the UK), and saw some graffiti painted onto a bridge saying "Say no to CBDCs".  I didn't get time to snap a photo.  A few people have mentioned it on twitter and there's also an FT article (but it's behind a paywall).  Looks like there are people out there hoping to spread the message.

This one?:

credit to r/BitcoinUK

It's always nice when people take actions but we need some proper, informational actions of the dangers of implementing CBDCs, otherwise masses will be quick to dismiss any warnings as tin-foil hat conspiracy theory.

Yeah, that's the one.  Pretty sure I was the only person in the car who knew what it meant, but it's a start.  Even if the majority of passing motorists are currently just wondering "WTF does that mean?", it's better to plant the seed early so that when discussion about CBDCs becomes more common, everyone will know that there is resistance to the concept.

[m2017]

~snip
It's always nice when people take actions but we need some proper, informational actions of the dangers of implementing CBDCs, otherwise masses will be quick to dismiss any warnings as tin-foil hat conspiracy theory.

Sure, it's an overly peculiar way to warn people about the threat of CBDC, but it's certainly better than doing nothing and complaining about the inevitable CBDC while complaining in a bar over a glass of beer. Also, you are absolutely right that information about CBDC must be communicated to people in an appropriate way so as not to cause rejection in them, as another senseless protest.

Well, what better way to communicate about CBDC to others could you suggest? It’s impossible to talk about this in a nutshell, and ordinary inhabitants who rode under this bridge with an inscription will not read detailed long reads with all the evidence. The question is how to bring information to those who are not interested in finance at all until the day of their salary and going to the store.

~snip
Yeah, that's the one.  Pretty sure I was the only person in the car who knew what it meant, but it's a start.  Even if the majority of passing motorists are currently just wondering "WTF does that mean?", it's better to plant the seed early so that when discussion about CBDCs becomes more common, everyone will know that there is resistance to the concept.

I am sure that it was so, that you are the only one who is in the subject and understands what is written.

They will think about question "WTF does that mean?" for exactly 10 seconds, and then they will "switch" the TV brain channel. In order to sow a seed of doubt and have it germinate, the soil must be fertile and able to germinate this seed. Seed "WTF does that mean?" will not germinate in everyone.

[pawel7777]

Well, what better way to communicate about CBDC to others could you suggest? It’s impossible to talk about this in a nutshell, and ordinary inhabitants who rode under this bridge with an inscription will not read detailed long reads with all the evidence. The question is how to bring information to those who are not interested in finance at all until the day of their salary and going to the store.

I think nice and clean infographics with condensed information tend to work best, i.e. bullet-point-style information summarising all the potential threats that CBDCs can bring with links to sources or more detailed information in the footer. Something you can easily post/re-post on social media even as an image.
Plus, of course, watching and sharing any content of influencers (I hate that word) that comment on the subject, to get algorithms to boost it up.

Even if the majority of passing motorists are currently just wondering "WTF does that mean?", it's better to plant the seed early so that when discussion about CBDCs becomes more common, everyone will know that there is resistance to the concept.

Exactly, it'll click later on. Bitesize info is still more effective than walls of text attempting to explain everything in one go.

[DooMAD]

Another important point the wider public should be made aware of (I'm assuming a lot of people here on this forum would already know), is that in terms of "losing control of your money", it doesn't even require CBDCs for that to occur.  It has already happened.  What most people don't realise is, that from a legal standpoint, the moment you deposit funds to a bank, the ownership of that money changes from you to them.  You are a creditor of the bank.  They owe you that money, but it's not yours anymore.

The main reason CBDCs are an issue is because it will eventually eliminate the use of cash and carries serious privacy concerns if every single financial transaction can be recorded, tracked and audited, with all of your personally identifiable and financially sensitive information attached.

Cash = Privacy

[Ozero]

As the title said, there is a high possibility that it is true, it seems that cbdc is no different from fiat that is controlled by the country's government, it just became digital. So for me that cbdc is just a joke to be honest. Although, it somehow helps in the adoption of cryptocurrency, that's all, of course, it's still under centralization.

This is where the cbdc will really fall in the regulation, I just don't know if there is anyone else here who has the same understanding as I think about that matter. Of course the government will take advantage of that happening.

CBDCs are likely to play a significant role in improving the efficiency of the state's banking system. This is, in fact, an improved system of state cashless payments, so CBDCs will be under the full control of the state. And this means that the government can at any time block citizens' access to their money in their virtual wallets, as this is usually done with non-cash money.
But CBDC needs to be taken seriously. In any case, they will create certain conveniences for both citizens and the government with their banking system.

[pawel7777]

CBDCs are likely to play a significant role in improving the efficiency of the state's banking system. This is, in fact, an improved system of state cashless payments, so CBDCs will be under the full control of the state. And this means that the government can at any time block citizens' access to their money in their virtual wallets, as this is usually done with non-cash money.
But CBDC needs to be taken seriously. In any case, they will create certain conveniences for both citizens and the government with their banking system.

It's not just about having a full insight of your transactions or the ability to block your funds. CBDC will make programmable money possible. The government will have the ability to set expiry dates on your funds, or impose limits on certain purchases (i.e. to fight climate change) or, coupled with face recognition technology, they could fine you for any offences automatically (similarly to what's already happening in China).

But that could backfire badly in many ways.

https://twitter.com/TimHinchliffe/status/1674105699897311253

[m2017]

As the title said, there is a high possibility that it is true, it seems that cbdc is no different from fiat that is controlled by the country's government, it just became digital. So for me that cbdc is just a joke to be honest. Although, it somehow helps in the adoption of cryptocurrency, that's all, of course, it's still under centralization.

This is where the cbdc will really fall in the regulation, I just don't know if there is anyone else here who has the same understanding as I think about that matter. Of course the government will take advantage of that happening.

CBDCs are likely to play a significant role in improving the efficiency of the state's banking system. This is, in fact, an improved system of state cashless payments, so CBDCs will be under the full control of the state. And this means that the government can at any time block citizens' access to their money in their virtual wallets, as this is usually done with non-cash money.
But CBDC needs to be taken seriously. In any case, they will create certain conveniences for both citizens and the government with their banking system.

Oh yeah. There is no doubt about this - they will create certain conveniences. For themselves, but will be served to the public under the pretext of their safety, comfort and other fictional nonsense.

CBDCs are likely to play a significant role in improving the efficiency of the state's banking system. This is, in fact, an improved system of state cashless payments, so CBDCs will be under the full control of the state. And this means that the government can at any time block citizens' access to their money in their virtual wallets, as this is usually done with non-cash money.
But CBDC needs to be taken seriously. In any case, they will create certain conveniences for both citizens and the government with their banking system.

It's not just about having a full insight of your transactions or the ability to block your funds. CBDC will make programmable money possible. The government will have the ability to set expiry dates on your funds, or impose limits on certain purchases (i.e. to fight climate change) or, coupled with face recognition technology, they could fine you for any offences automatically (similarly to what's already happening in China).

But that could backfire badly in many ways.

https://twitter.com/TimHinchliffe/status/1674105699897311253

The duration of funds (CBDC) can be limited for less prosaic reasons than to combat climate change: government grants (or other payments) that can only be spent on permitted purposes. It will not be possible to accumulate this money. Didn't have time to use before a certain period - the money is reset.

Due to such a mechanism, the state obtains an instrument of influence on the economy: it will be possible to stimulate the purchase / sale of goods and services in this way. What does the consumer get? So this is digital slavery, when he ceases to be the full owner of his money (wealth). If you can't control it, then it doesn't belong to you.

But don't despair, there are some glimpses in this direction. Implementation of CBDC system failed in Senegal and Ecuador. Probably the same fate awaits Nigeria, where the people are against CBDC.

[romero121]

CBDCs are likely to play a significant role in improving the efficiency of the state's banking system. This is, in fact, an improved system of state cashless payments, so CBDCs will be under the full control of the state. And this means that the government can at any time block citizens' access to their money in their virtual wallets, as this is usually done with non-cash money.
But CBDC needs to be taken seriously. In any case, they will create certain conveniences for both citizens and the government with their banking system.

It's not just about having a full insight of your transactions or the ability to block your funds. CBDC will make programmable money possible. The government will have the ability to set expiry dates on your funds, or impose limits on certain purchases (i.e. to fight climate change) or, coupled with face recognition technology, they could fine you for any offences automatically (similarly to what's already happening in China).

But that could backfire badly in many ways.

https://twitter.com/TimHinchliffe/status/1674105699897311253

As said these advancements will help with the administrative operations, but this doesn't favour the users much. Just a digital way of using fiat. Nothing much on it. As said there might be expiry and other features that could keep the things in order. However it is people's money under the hands of banking corporates. Now itself some country's have started to fine on violations and just deduct amount from the particular person's bank without their consent. This will be an advanced way of doing it.

[pawel7777]

The duration of funds (CBDC) can be limited for less prosaic reasons than to combat climate change: government grants (or other payments) that can only be spent on permitted purposes.

Good point. I'd imagine one of the first restrictions that we'll likely see is prohibition from purchasing certain types of goods (e.g. alcohol or tobacco) with the money received as child benefits. This could replace voucher-type benefits (such as food stamps) and there will unlikely be any massive backlash against it.
Then they'll be introducing more and more controversial restrictions (boiling the frog tactic) without any mass protests, as people will be getting used to it.

[Vaskiy]

CBDC users losing control of their money gets lowered than what we experience with the traditional banking system. Yesterday RBI(Reserve Bank of India) Governor have vouched for CBDC. He had stated the instant settlement and more secure cross border transactions as the key advantages. He had stated the high cost, low speed, lack of transparency as the challenges in the traditional banking system. With CBDC this will be made more effective and efficient. Over time people might get used to it and the usage of local currencies for cross border could help in shielding from global shocks.

[DooMAD]

I'd imagine one of the first restrictions that we'll likely see is prohibition from purchasing certain types of goods (e.g. alcohol or tobacco) with the money received as child benefits. This could replace voucher-type benefits (such as food stamps) and there will unlikely be any massive backlash against it.

Depends on locale, I'd say.  There'd 100% be riots in the UK if you stopped people buying booze.  

To quote British comedy series 'The IT Crowd':

When did the English start drinking like that? You people drink like you don't want to live.

And what the restrictions are placed on will change depending on what type of government gets elected.  So there's always the potential for someone to feel that their freedoms are under attack when they suddenly aren't able to buy something they've always bought unchallenged up to that point.