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Author Topic: Full relay : cost and benefits  (Read 310 times)
BlackHatCoiner
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July 30, 2023, 10:44:25 AM
 #21

its not even 20 HD movies
Lol, what kind of movies are you watching? 30 GB+ each is craze, even for 4k.

if a transaction is $2 and a nigerians real world income is $0.30 an hour. they would have to work most of a whole day just to pay a fee to use bitcoin..
What to do about that. This is the cost nevertheless. If you can't give $2 for a couple of transactions, then bitcoin isn't in your favor. These $2 can't just go disappeared, unless we raise the block size to an extent that it'll stop being decentralized sooner or later.

Do we have any data from what Nigerian banks charge for transactions?

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vapourminer
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what is this "brake pedal" you speak of?


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July 30, 2023, 11:02:19 AM
 #22

my issue is bandwidth, not storage and im sure im not alone.
How about keeping up with new blocks? That takes about 6-16 GB per month. Isn't that too much already? I wouldn't want to do that on mobile data.

i ran core overnight and shut it down during the day as my internet was basically unusable when core was syncing.

50 gb/month was one cap i lived under for many years.






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July 30, 2023, 04:39:29 PM
Merited by LoyceV (2)
 #23

I never knew the storage space required to manage a full node now is near ~ 500 GB. That's crazy I would say, someone from a third world country with a poor internet connection might not be able to set it up for himself or herself when it's 500 GB, they might get timed out by their Internet Service Provider, doesn't that make it only First World Country ability to run a full node? They should work on it's optimization and make it available for everyone who belives in Bitcoin.

You're exaggerating. Unless the ISP offer very low data cap or FUP, downloading ~500GB blockchain is possible, although it would take some time. When i initially run full node, i remember it took few weeks to download whole blockchain.

youre forgetting those of us who have no wired service. its all satellite/4g in our world. it would take literally many, many months to sync from genesis.

my issue is bandwidth and data caps, not storage. and im sure im not alone. 1st world status means nothing when the nearest infrastructure is miles away.

This. I am talking about the accessibility of downloading the Bitcoin Blockchain from the first transaction to the latest is not for everyone and I stand true, I know people who get 1GB of data per day on their mobile internet and don't have access to Fiber/Wired Connections. It will take them 550 Days to download the whole blockchain and by then, new blocks will be added and more data will be required to be downloaded. I am not exaggerating anything, just telling the real situation.
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July 30, 2023, 05:23:25 PM
Merited by LoyceV (2), vapourminer (1), ABCbits (1)
 #24

This. I am talking about the accessibility of downloading the Bitcoin Blockchain from the first transaction to the latest is not for everyone and I stand true, I know people who get 1GB of data per day on their mobile internet and don't have access to Fiber/Wired Connections. It will take them 550 Days to download the whole blockchain and by then, new blocks will be added and more data will be required to be downloaded. I am not exaggerating anything, just telling the real situation.
That is a very specific use-case of Bitcoin. Generally, for people to use Bitcoin, they don't have to use full nodes. Full nodes are resource intensive by design and it is practically not possible to go around that requirement. If you're in an extremely bandwidth constricted environment, do use an SPV wallet if you cannot synchronize your wallet with Bitcoin Core.

Satellite and mobile data are generally very unstable and unreliable. I would argue that having them on the network serves no tangible benefits to the rest. Constant disconnections results in nodes connecting and disconnecting intermittently which wouldn't be very useful for nodes who are bootstrapping.

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LoyceV
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July 31, 2023, 08:31:14 AM
 #25

I know people who get 1GB of data per day on their mobile internet and don't have access to Fiber/Wired Connections.
1 GB/day mobile data is still a lot. Just don't use streaming Wink
If they really want to use their own full node, they can get a VPS and run their own Electrum server. But it's much easier to use one of the many existing Electrum servers. Many Bitcoin users with fast, unlimited internet don't run their own node anyway.

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September 12, 2023, 09:39:08 PM
 #26

Good day all,

Maintaining the entire blockchain ledger and running a full relay by general public is a crucial, foundational aspect of BTC. It's also a substantial commitment in storage, bandwidth and increased need for security. While IMHO those who can, should do it as a public service, there's also a possibility of network somehow compensating those who maintain full ledger. I wonder if this has ever been pondered : can it be done in a way that would incentivize it for individual, independent users vs corporate agents with quasi-unlimited resources ? What are the downsides and upsides beyond obvious ? What does the future hold - what will full ledger look like in a decade from now and how viable will it be then for Joe Internet to keep it on his home network ? Has anyone considered a compression algo that would specialize in good blockchain performance ?

Currently (2023) full ledger is about 435 Gb.  Bandwidth consumption of 200G/month in UPLOADS is reported norm, if left unchecked. I feel a systemic risk to the network that may drift momentum towards large users with unlimited storage and bandwidth in a way that may jeopardize security and decentralized nature of the network.

On other hand, how critical is most of that data to stability and security of the blockchain ? Perhaps my concerns are out of ignorance and it will do just fine when less then 0.01% of all self-hosted nodes maintain a full copy.

With respect
unixux


Actually there are thousand ways to centralize blockchain projects:

1)Mining hardware monopoly: now all the main mining facilities are equipped with specific devices, PCs and/or other devices for everyday use are no more efficient in terms of mining. Control over service and production of mining devices makes blockchain technology centralised.

2)Mining software monopoly: the same story.

3)Wallet software monopoly: control over wallets is also the way to centralisation.

4)Exchange to fiat control: now nearly none business initiatives accept BTC directly, so the only way to use cryptomoney now is to exchange it for fiat. Moreover, legal status of cryptocurrencies is still unclear ewerywhere. So high degree of centralisation will persist as long as the adoption level is this low.

5)Whales become tycoons and rule the whole system. Cryptomoney distribution will be a problem if adoption level raises tremendously. The same thing we can observe in dollar and other fiat money systems: so called "10% of population controls 90% of money" principle. Crypto is also vulnerable to this disaster.

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