It ain't meant to be easy

[cafter]

I invested bought bitcoin at ATH and i am terribly in loss now, but not gave up on bitcoin instead wanted to learn more and joined this forum. and learned many things, I am DCAing to get the average price now.

If you are running towards merits the merits will run away from you, instead try to learn and help forum members with sharing what you know, the merits will come automatically.
it's feels boring because some users come here specifically for earning merits, if you were here to learn something money/bitcoin then you were feeling curious to login to see who replied to my post.

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[rachael9385]

I am keeping everything simple and will continue to follow the same mantra even if I become multi millionaire. You enjoy the life the way it comes to you. If you try too hard you will make mistake and if you do not try at all then it will hit hard back to you. Better keep managing the life events as they come to you. You got extra money today? Save some, invest some, and spend some for your loved ones. If you did not get any extra money still save some, invest some and spend “later” on your loved ones. They ain’t going anywhere, they also live the same life. The save and invest is the key in all of this.

I see you mentioning and correlating things with merit earning on the forum. I count it as appendix in the system. One of the organ that is in our body it has no function since ages and it’s getting rejected by the body. It’s just sitting there with no meaning.

If you are using forum for your knowledge and sharing your knowledge, you are automatically getting escalated.

Don’t make this as rat race, makes it simpler.

You have a good point. Life can be easy when we don't force ourselves to be successful. We should try our best and live the rest. Sometimes, hearing the challenges of life can also be tough when we have nobody by our side, when we are still growing and in that same situation, some people make wrong decisions and it didn't end well for them and I will say that it is part of life.
If we have a job, whether good pay or average pay, it is good to save, invest and also spend wisely.

[Iroh]

I am keeping everything simple and will continue to follow the same mantra even if I become multi millionaire. You enjoy the life the way it comes to you. If you try too hard you will make mistake and if you do not try at all then it will hit hard back to you. Better keep managing the life events as they come to you. You got extra money today? Save some, invest some, and spend some for your loved ones. If you did not get any extra money still save some, invest some and spend “later” on your loved ones. They ain’t going anywhere, they also live the same life. The save and invest is the key in all of this.

The simpler the better right? I hope you really do continue to follow the same ideology when you become a multi millionaire. It is said that money reveals someone’s true nature.
I agree with you on the need to have a positive outlook on life. Mistakes are bound to happen only when you make an effort and the lessons learnt from the mistakes makes us stronger. If you don’t try at all, there’s no chance of ever making a better life for ourselves.

Savings and investments are important as well as spending either time or/and money on your friends and loved ones as life can be very unpredictable.

[slapper]

Some of your points are really important. Achieving anything in life is not so easy. To get anything good one must achieve it through hard work. May it be a degree or a career field or may it be a person's biggest dream in life. In each case an individual has to devote sufficient effort and time. Almost all of us know that nothing can be achieved by sitting idly.

If I want to get good results from my business then I must have good business management skills and pay attention to the quality of my products and accessories only then I can get good results from my business.

The same should be considered for investing in cryptocurrency or Bitcoin. A person cannot easily profit from Bitcoin if he does not acquire good knowledge about Bitcoin. Bitcoin is not suitable for those who cannot buy and hold Bitcoin. Bitcoin is not a money scheme where we can get multiple profits just by investing. But only those who buy into bitcoin and start living a dream for a long time can succeed.

Truly? I thought everyone knew by now that success doesn't magically fall into our laps. Still, I appreciate you pointing out the obvious


About your business point, it goes without saying that you must strong management abilities. All prosperous business owners will tell you the same thing. For those of you who might still be beneath the rock, here's a breakdown of Bitcoin: knowledge truly is power. Clearly. You cannot enter cryptocurrency without knowledge and expect to make money right away

Now, Is anyone still considering Bitcoin as a quick way to become wealthy? lol. Planting a money tree and watching it grow over night is not a magical experience. Therefore, perhaps do a reality check before attempting to turn a rapid profit with Bitcoin for those impatient types?

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

Truly? I thought everyone knew by now that success doesn't magically fall into our laps. Still, I appreciate you pointing out the obvious

About your business point, it goes without saying that you must strong management abilities. All prosperous business owners will tell you the same thing. For those of you who might still be beneath the rock, here's a breakdown of Bitcoin: knowledge truly is power. Clearly. You cannot enter cryptocurrency without knowledge and expect to make money right away

I understand that you are talking about bitcoin here (or at least it seems like it), but for some reason you chose to use the word "cryptocurrency" which seems to be quite misleading if you do not attempt to put your assertion into some kind of context.. So why even use the word, except you are trying to imply some kind of broader application regarding whatever you were going to say about bitcoin.. so then a question gets raised about whether you are actually talking about bitcoin or something else? 

I really am not sure.  I was going to say something else about fuck crypto when it comes to knowledge, especially if we are talking about bitcoin because some people get distracted into trying to learn about various crypto when it is merely a distraction, but it may well be helpful to have some kind of a framework, so long as we attempt to know how bitcoin fits into it and give some kind of a starting point to bitcoin in order to understand that a lot of the crypto space is either building on bitcoin or attacking bitcoin or engaged in some kind of affinity scam in regards, to bitcoin, yet at the same time, just because much if it is a waste of time in terms of focus, it does not mean that there is not any value in some of the broader space, as long as it is understood in terms of a more informed context.

Now, Is anyone still considering Bitcoin as a quick way to become wealthy? lol. Planting a money tree and watching it grow over night is not a magical experience. Therefore, perhaps do a reality check before attempting to turn a rapid profit with Bitcoin for those impatient types?

This not a bad point either in regards to a distracting angle that comes from get rich quick ideas, and surely with any gambling angle there could be ways to get rich quick scheme with some in and out strategies, so we cannot completely discount the possibilities of actually getting rich quick, or that people are reasonably motivated by get rich quick ideas, even though that get rich quick framework might end up causing them to invest into bitcoin in ways that don't end up working out so well for them. including some people who got in and out of bitcoin and thought that they were geniuses because they made 2x, 5x, 10x or some other great return in terms of dollar value, but then when they look back at their overall investment portfolio performance, they see that they would have been way better off to have played a longer bitcoin game, even if their average cost of BTC might have ended up going up when they end up buying BTC at higher prices that drop in price for extended periods of time.

One more point about knowledge when it comes to bitcoin.  There likely are going to be a variety of reasons that people come into bitcoin and get interested in bitcoin, and the point in which bitcoin sufficiently resonates for them is likely going to be different for different people in terms at which point they might be considering bitcoin to be more of a long term play rather than expecting positive results in the short-term, and some people take way longer than others in terms of even being able to understand bitcoin in a way that they have confidence in its longer term investment thesis, versus maybe considering bitcoin in terms of market sentiment or momentum or its connection to other macro asset (such as having ideas about how bitcoin is correlated, when it likely is not as correlated as they believe.. but that still goes to how bitcoin is understood and whether bitcoin is understood).

Surely, I am not suggesting that wide knowledge of bitcoin is needed prior to investing into it, even though surely it is helpful to have some kind of a meaningful basis that motivates an investment thesis or how to invest into bitcoin in a way that is suitable to the person. so having knowledge about bitcoin is only one of the components apart from having knowledge about ones own financial and psychological circumstances, and perhaps it bears repeating what kinds of knowledge is helpful, but it is surely not necessarily that anyone perfects each of the areas of knowledge even if s/he has more information that is relevant to certain areas of knowledge..... and so here it is:

When you invest into bitcoin, at minimum you should be attempting to develop knowledge about:

1)   your cashflow,

2)   how much bitcoin you have already accumulated,

3)   your other investments (including cash reserves),

4)   your view of bitcoin as compared with other investments,

5)   your timeline,

6)   your risk tolerance,

7)   your time, skills, goals (investment/lifestyle targets, which includes figuring out the extent that you are in BTC accumulation, maintenance or liquidation stage),

8 )   your abilities to strategize, plan, research and learn along the way including tweaking strategies from time to time,

9)   your considering your time, your abilities and whether to trade, reallocate from time to time, to use of leverage and/or to use financial instruments.

These are ongoing areas in which anyone should be working upon without necessarily concluding that they need to perfect all of them or even to perfect any one category prior to being ready to start investing into bitcoin.. whether that is investing with their time, their energies and/or their finances.

[Odohu]

I understand that you are talking about bitcoin here (or at least it seems like it), but for some reason you chose to use the word "cryptocurrency" which seems to be quite misleading if you do not attempt to put your assertion into some kind of context

A lot of people, even the experienced guys, are still stuck in that conjecture and its rather unfortunate.  Like you explained in one of the threads, using the term cryptocurrency to represent all digital assets including Bitcoin without adding some clarifications/distinction could send a terrible signal to the uniformed.

Someone could be swayed to buy into a shitcoin, only to loose his money and blame cryptocurrency for his loss and someone might take note of this, only to resist and criticise any discussion of Bitcoin siting that cryptocurrency is scam as many feel comfortable saying.

I am yet to see someone who bought Bitcoin that is regretting but there are countless number of terrible stories about losses in shitcoins and I posted about mine yesterday when I checked coinmarketcap only to realise that a token that raised over $8 million in sales died and left us with a bag of shit.

So, I feel it is very important we make that clarification when using the word "cryptocurrency"

When you invest into bitcoin, at minimum you should be attempting to develop knowledge about:

1)   your cashflow,

2)   how much bitcoin you have already accumulated,

3)   your other investments (including cash reserves),

4)   your view of bitcoin as compared with other investments,

5)   your timeline,

6)   your risk tolerance,

7)   your time, skills, goals (investment/lifestyle targets, which includes figuring out the extent that you are in BTC accumulation, maintenance or liquidation stage),

8 )   your abilities to strategize, plan, research and learn along the way including tweaking strategies from time to time,

9)   your considering your time, your abilities and whether to trade, reallocate from time to time, to use of leverage and/or to use financial instruments.

These are ongoing areas in which anyone should be working upon without necessarily concluding that they need to perfect all of them or even to perfect any one category prior to being ready to start investing into bitcoin.. whether that is investing with their time, their energies and/or their finances.

This is a helpful information I must admit. My views Actually align with yours in no mean way and I guess you just gave a good perspective that give clarity and direction to explore.

[red4slash]

I invested bought bitcoin at ATH and i am terribly in loss now, but not gave up on bitcoin instead wanted to learn more and joined this forum. and learned many things, I am DCAing to get the average price now.

If you are running towards merits the merits will run away from you, instead try to learn and help forum members with sharing what you know, the merits will come automatically.
it's feels boring because some users come here specifically for earning merits, if you were here to learn something money/bitcoin then you were feeling curious to login to see who replied to my post.

Previously I wanted to ask, have you sold the bitcoin you bought at the time of ATH or not? if yes then it is true that you have lost, and if you have not sold it then it cannot be said to be a loss because the possibility of bitcoin touching the previous ATH or even exceeding the previous ATH is very large.
You have done something right, because when you experience something undesirable (buying bitcoin, then the price drops far from the price when you entered) you continue to try to learn or deepen your knowledge about bitcoin in particular. Because sometimes not a few when they experience something unwanted they immediately stop and even say this is a scam.

[SmartGold01]

I understand that you are talking about bitcoin here (or at least it seems like it), but for some reason you chose to use the word "cryptocurrency" which seems to be quite misleading if you do not attempt to put your assertion into some kind of context

A lot of people, even the experienced guys, are still stuck in that conjecture and its rather unfortunate.  Like you explained in one of the threads, using the term cryptocurrency to represent all digital assets including Bitcoin without adding some clarifications/distinction could send a terrible signal to the uniformed.

Someone could be swayed to buy into a shitcoin, only to loose his money and blame cryptocurrency for his loss and someone might take note of this, only to resist and criticise any discussion of Bitcoin siting that cryptocurrency is scam as many feel comfortable saying.

I am yet to see someone who bought Bitcoin that is regretting but there are countless number of terrible stories about losses in shitcoins and I posted about mine yesterday when I checked coinmarketcap only to realise that a token that raised over $8 million in sales died and left us with a bag of shit.

So, I feel it is very important we make that clarification when using the word "cryptocurrency"

Sometimes I feels so pettied go those who are yet to understand the difference between this whole concepts of investment, well from the time I understood the language bitcoin and altcoin I knew there are something phishy and this often happened to those who are engulfed with greed and profits making. I began to understand that altcoin is more riskier to venture or told for a longer period of time because as you keep holding the more the owners keeps money and when they successful sold out their holding then they have no options than to leave an empty token that is cheaply called coins to the hands of investment, that is why you fell among those with worthless tokens trying to hold for long to make a huge profit.

But believe me if that your funds which you used to invest in that project was channelled to bitcoin investment I bet you wouldn't have been this emptied with your tokens or with your investment, so maybe next you can at least learned from your mistakes and I believe you can also makes some corrections and that could enable you to gear yourself up should you have any one related or wanting to know about altcoin you would give them a good counseling concerning the theorems of altcoin and it modifications. That is why whenever JayJuanGee speaks he talks with experience and from his comments you will learn the truth.

[cafter]

Previously I wanted to ask, have you sold the bitcoin you bought at the time of ATH or not? if yes then it is true that you have lost, and if you have not sold it then it cannot be said to be a loss because the possibility of bitcoin touching the previous ATH or even exceeding the previous ATH is very large.
You have done something right, because when you experience something undesirable (buying bitcoin, then the price drops far from the price when you entered) you continue to try to learn or deepen your knowledge about bitcoin in particular. Because sometimes not a few when they experience something unwanted they immediately stop and even say this is a scam.

I bought bitcoin at ATH and now i am "in loss" not "lost" means i am still holding them for almost two years.
there is no need to say this is scam, it's a cycle which repeats each time and repeated this time also, but i was unlucky that i invested, and my first try was a loss(considering if i sold).

I don't know whether i feel lucky about it or unlucky and sad about it.
In terms of being lucky: I am facing loss for almost 2 years in which i experienced what the bear market look like so next time i can get prepared for this type of dips.
In terms of being unlucky: My money was not working for me for almost 2 years, instead i might invested that money in my countries stock market (which performed very well making new ATHs) then i was in profit for now.

[Fatunad]

I understand that you are talking about bitcoin here (or at least it seems like it), but for some reason you chose to use the word "cryptocurrency" which seems to be quite misleading if you do not attempt to put your assertion into some kind of context

A lot of people, even the experienced guys, are still stuck in that conjecture and its rather unfortunate.  Like you explained in one of the threads, using the term cryptocurrency to represent all digital assets including Bitcoin without adding some clarifications/distinction could send a terrible signal to the uniformed.

Someone could be swayed to buy into a shitcoin, only to loose his money and blame cryptocurrency for his loss and someone might take note of this, only to resist and criticise any discussion of Bitcoin siting that cryptocurrency is scam as many feel comfortable saying.

I am yet to see someone who bought Bitcoin that is regretting but there are countless number of terrible stories about losses in shitcoins and I posted about mine yesterday when I checked coinmarketcap only to realise that a token that raised over $8 million in sales died and left us with a bag of shit.

So, I feel it is very important we make that clarification when using the word "cryptocurrency"

Sometimes I feels so pettied go those who are yet to understand the difference between this whole concepts of investment, well from the time I understood the language bitcoin and altcoin I knew there are something phishy and this often happened to those who are engulfed with greed and profits making. I began to understand that altcoin is more riskier to venture or told for a longer period of time because as you keep holding the more the owners keeps money and when they successful sold out their holding then they have no options than to leave an empty token that is cheaply called coins to the hands of investment, that is why you fell among those with worthless tokens trying to hold for long to make a huge profit.

But believe me if that your funds which you used to invest in that project was channelled to bitcoin investment I bet you wouldn't have been this emptied with your tokens or with your investment, so maybe next you can at least learned from your mistakes and I believe you can also makes some corrections and that could enable you to gear yourself up should you have any one related or wanting to know about altcoin you would give them a good counseling concerning the theorems of altcoin and it modifications. That is why whenever JayJuanGee speaks he talks with experience and from his comments you will learn the truth.

Nice pointing out those wrong words that had been used because if we do speak about "cryptocurrencies" then it would really be including all things as a whole on which it would really be just that normal that those newbies who might be able to read up will really be mislead and would really definitely be considering on putting their money into shit coins or something that it isnt known instead on going through BTC.
We are all started on being a noob and this is why its not really that shocking that mistakes and errors are something that common whether because of those wrong information been read up or really just that simply blindly following on something which it is really just that too good to be true.We are really that easily getting hooked into something specially when we are just starting up.  Sooner or later once you do have that sufficient experience in the market then you would really be definitely be able to gradually understand on how this market works and behaves and with that then you do already have the idea on what you should gonna do.
Investing or dealing up with this market is risky and something not that easy and this is why dealing with caution and making use of your own common sense would be the key on surviving yourself into this one.

[SmartGold01]

I understand that you are talking about bitcoin here (or at least it seems like it), but for some reason you chose to use the word "cryptocurrency" which seems to be quite misleading if you do not attempt to put your assertion into some kind of context

A lot of people, even the experienced guys, are still stuck in that conjecture and its rather unfortunate.  Like you explained in one of the threads, using the term cryptocurrency to represent all digital assets including Bitcoin without adding some clarifications/distinction could send a terrible signal to the uniformed.

Someone could be swayed to buy into a shitcoin, only to loose his money and blame cryptocurrency for his loss and someone might take note of this, only to resist and criticise any discussion of Bitcoin siting that cryptocurrency is scam as many feel comfortable saying.

I am yet to see someone who bought Bitcoin that is regretting but there are countless number of terrible stories about losses in shitcoins and I posted about mine yesterday when I checked coinmarketcap only to realise that a token that raised over $8 million in sales died and left us with a bag of shit.

So, I feel it is very important we make that clarification when using the word "cryptocurrency"

Sometimes I feels so pettied go those who are yet to understand the difference between this whole concepts of investment, well from the time I understood the language bitcoin and altcoin I knew there are something phishy and this often happened to those who are engulfed with greed and profits making. I began to understand that altcoin is more riskier to venture or told for a longer period of time because as you keep holding the more the owners keeps money and when they successful sold out their holding then they have no options than to leave an empty token that is cheaply called coins to the hands of investment, that is why you fell among those with worthless tokens trying to hold for long to make a huge profit.

But believe me if that your funds which you used to invest in that project was channelled to bitcoin investment I bet you wouldn't have been this emptied with your tokens or with your investment, so maybe next you can at least learned from your mistakes and I believe you can also makes some corrections and that could enable you to gear yourself up should you have any one related or wanting to know about altcoin you would give them a good counseling concerning the theorems of altcoin and it modifications. That is why whenever JayJuanGee speaks he talks with experience and from his comments you will learn the truth.

Nice pointing out those wrong words that had been used because if we do speak about "cryptocurrencies" then it would really be including all things as a whole on which it would really be just that normal that those newbies who might be able to read up will really be mislead and would really definitely be considering on putting their money into shit coins or something that it isnt known instead on going through BTC.
We are all started on being a noob and this is why its not really that shocking that mistakes and errors are something that common whether because of those wrong information been read up or really just that simply blindly following on something which it is really just that too good to be true.We are really that easily getting hooked into something specially when we are just starting up.  Sooner or later once you do have that sufficient experience in the market then you would really be definitely be able to gradually understand on how this market works and behaves and with that then you do already have the idea on what you should gonna do.
Investing or dealing up with this market is risky and something not that easy and this is why dealing with caution and making use of your own common sense would be the key on surviving yourself into this one.

From experience achieved so far I think I might be the least person to be easily convinced about undiluted project or do I say shitcoin to hold, then when I never fully got into routed here I was actually being washed by some projects that promised to list at some prices which we never see that as a sweet and cooked organized and romanced lie to lure investor into holding bigger portion of their shitcoin (token) per say. But was blindfolded by greed maybe I think was equating a token to carry same symmetric load as ethereum maybe bnb, that was the concepts that over shadowed me but at some point I began to understand the team weren't active the price began to declined at then was very smart to have sold before a bit above my bought point so my funds was actually recovered since then i really back off from shitcoin that is organized to steal your real funds from you. The bottom line is bitcoin is the best because when it gets down you only need patients for it to bounce back again but to other altcoin hardly bounce back and some of them dies from there.

[Inwestour]

I really am not sure.  I was going to say something else about fuck crypto when it comes to knowledge, especially if we are talking about bitcoin because some people get distracted into trying to learn about various crypto when it is merely a distraction, but it may well be helpful to have some kind of a framework, so long as we attempt to know how bitcoin fits into it and give some kind of a starting point to bitcoin in order to understand that a lot of the crypto space is either building on bitcoin or attacking bitcoin or engaged in some kind of affinity scam in regards, to bitcoin, yet at the same time, just because much if it is a waste of time in terms of focus, it does not mean that there is not any value in some of the broader space, as long as it is understood in terms of a more informed context.

I agree that only Bitcoin deserves attention when we talk about investing our money, since all other tokens significantly increase the risk for our investments and I do not understand why we need to increase the risks.

If we look at the entire market, what I see is how the entire market is moving behind Bitcoin, in rare cases some token can pump without being tied to Bitcoin, but this is the exception rather than the rule and in the end it will still fall. Many shitcoins are created with only one purpose, to take money from gullible people, so when buying these tokens it becomes a game of luck, or you will be lucky to sell with a profit, if not, then there is a chance to lose everything.

When I buy Bitcoin I don't worry about all this, I'm confident in my investment and I'm realistic about my goals. And those who buy altcoins often expect some unrealistic goals and end up not selling when they should.

[red4slash]

Previously I wanted to ask, have you sold the bitcoin you bought at the time of ATH or not? if yes then it is true that you have lost, and if you have not sold it then it cannot be said to be a loss because the possibility of bitcoin touching the previous ATH or even exceeding the previous ATH is very large.
You have done something right, because when you experience something undesirable (buying bitcoin, then the price drops far from the price when you entered) you continue to try to learn or deepen your knowledge about bitcoin in particular. Because sometimes not a few when they experience something unwanted they immediately stop and even say this is a scam.

I bought bitcoin at ATH and now i am "in loss" not "lost" means i am still holding them for almost two years.
there is no need to say this is scam, it's a cycle which repeats each time and repeated this time also, but i was unlucky that i invested, and my first try was a loss(considering if i sold).

I don't know whether i feel lucky about it or unlucky and sad about it.
In terms of being lucky: I am facing loss for almost 2 years in which i experienced what the bear market look like so next time i can get prepared for this type of dips.
In terms of being unlucky: My money was not working for me for almost 2 years, instead i might invested that money in my countries stock market (which performed very well making new ATHs) then i was in profit for now.

In this case I prefer to say depreciation because in the end the loss is when they buy high but sell when the price drops because of panic and don't want to get the worst condition with the value continuing to weaken but when you hold it I think at this time it still cannot be said to be a loss because you still keep the same amount (in bitcoin) but the value is shrinking.
When something like this happens then I think there is no problem because this is not a short-term investment and if you want more profit then at least it takes longer than imagined. On the other hand, precisely the moment of decline like this must be maximised properly because this is a condition for us to increase the load for the portopolio that we have so that when an increase occurs in terms of value for bitcoin we get more profit while waiting for the price we bought before at a high enough price again.

[JayJuanGee]

Previously I wanted to ask, have you sold the bitcoin you bought at the time of ATH or not? if yes then it is true that you have lost, and if you have not sold it then it cannot be said to be a loss because the possibility of bitcoin touching the previous ATH or even exceeding the previous ATH is very large.
You have done something right, because when you experience something undesirable (buying bitcoin, then the price drops far from the price when you entered) you continue to try to learn or deepen your knowledge about bitcoin in particular. Because sometimes not a few when they experience something unwanted they immediately stop and even say this is a scam.

I bought bitcoin at ATH and now i am "in loss" not "lost" means i am still holding them for almost two years.
there is no need to say this is scam, it's a cycle which repeats each time and repeated this time also, but i was unlucky that i invested, and my first try was a loss(considering if i sold).

I don't know whether i feel lucky about it or unlucky and sad about it.
In terms of being lucky: I am facing loss for almost 2 years in which i experienced what the bear market look like so next time i can get prepared for this type of dips.
In terms of being unlucky: My money was not working for me for almost 2 years, instead i might invested that money in my countries stock market (which performed very well making new ATHs) then i was in profit for now.

Maybe there is some necessity for forum members to take you seriously, to presume that you are not failing to tell the whole story and/or to consider your own responsibilities in the matter.

Surely, I will praise you if you had held through the whole time, and your story it not so far out there that it could not be true, because I do recognize and appreciate that there are people who go too far into bitcoin by investing too much without having a plan for either price direction, including the extremes, which frequently it seems that the extremes come when not expected, but there are still needs to prepare for them, and it is problematic to go all in to any asset whether bitcoin or anything else if you could have looked at the chart and you could have seen that it had already gone up around 17x from its $4k-ish bottom from either March 2020 or from April 2019.. and going up to $69k-ish in November 2021.

I frequently describe the lump sum buyer at the top as a kind of fantasy situation in which no one would really do.. even though people do those kinds of thing...   

The smarter thing to do, even if you make a lump sum buy at the top, is to continue to buy all the way down and just continue buying, but part of the problem of the lump sum buyer at the top may well be that they don't have any money left for buying... so then the logic may well to be to just sit on the investment, which seems to be your story...

Maybe you will get back to profits, and maybe you never will, and the fact that you sit on your investment rather than continuing to buy, you have a higher price that you have to pray that the BTC price gets back to in order to get back in profits, as compared to the person who continued to buy might well be in the neighborhood of break even or at least way less under water than you, even though maybe the person who continued to buy may well have had ended up investing more into bitcoin.. so instead of buying 1 BTC at $69k (or whatever price and amount you bought), the one who continued to buy may well have ended up buying 2 BTC for a total amount invested of around $95k (see the DCA of $250 per week for the last two years to have had resulted in $26k invested and about 1 BTC accumulated).

So yeah having 1 BTC for $69k versus having 2 BTC for $95k might not feel like it makes too much of a difference, even though there are ways to bring down your average cost per BTC and there are ways to consider that it is fucking less than smart to go all in when the price is rising like that.. even though surely a decent number of people are lured into that kind of FOMO.. and also many of them end up selling - and cutting their losses way sooner rather than riding it out, so there is a bit of smarts to just let the investment ride out when a guy (or gal) realizes that s/he had made such a mistake in the event that s/he is not able to continue to invest to bring down his/her average cost per BTC.

Don't get me wrong.  I did something similar in late 2013 when I first got into bitcoin, and so I continued to buy bitcoin through 2014, 2015, 2016 and 2017 (even though I did not really inject very much new money starting in about late 2016), and so my very first coin was in the negative all the way from late 2013 until about March 2017, but my average cost per BTC was only in the negative until about late 2015..... so I can understand the experience of how long it might take to build a BTC portfolio in the beginning and to get the BTC holdings into solid profits.. while at the same time realizing and appreciating that there are no guarantees regarding BTC's price direction or that it might end up going to zero, so there are needs to figure out position size in accordance with how much you want to put into such a bet.

Regarding your whinny comment about stocks out performing bitcoin in the period in which you invested, and even if true, you remain a dumb-ass if you believe that stocks are a better investment than bitcoin, even if you can figure out ways to spin facts or to selectively look at the bitcoin versus stocks situation in such a way to whine about it and to presume stocks to be a better investment... That kind of comment and dig at bitcoin, sounds quite disingenuine to me... or maybe you are just whining?  In any event, good luck with your investment into stocks and into other non-bitcoin assets, if you believe that is the direction to go..you are likely going to need a wee bit of good luck on your side.

[BABY SHOES]

I agree that only Bitcoin deserves attention when we talk about investing our money, since all other tokens significantly increase the risk for our investments and I do not understand why we need to increase the risks.

If we look at the entire market, what I see is how the entire market is moving behind Bitcoin, in rare cases some token can pump without being tied to Bitcoin, but this is the exception rather than the rule and in the end it will still fall. Many shitcoins are created with only one purpose, to take money from gullible people, so when buying these tokens it becomes a game of luck, or you will be lucky to sell with a profit, if not, then there is a chance to lose everything.

When I buy Bitcoin I don't worry about all this, I'm confident in my investment and I'm realistic about my goals. And those who buy altcoins often expect some unrealistic goals and end up not selling when they should.

Yeah bitcoin deserves more defense than shitcoin, now that I understand everything about investing I will focus on bitcoin no more than that, maybe some of them increase the risk of shitcoin it doesn't matter I understand it, although there are similarities about the risk in bitcoin but at least bitcoin is much safer than shitcoin.

Continue to observe the market, especially with the emergence of shitcoin, which is endless, indeed, from that goal it is only ONE to drain investors' money as long as it makes shitcoin hype after all the hype has been successfully raided, then they will come out as fraud, this is not once or twice but so much has happened, so I don't really believe in shitcoin.

When you buy bitcoin without worrying what about some other large institutions that buy bitcoin with millions of dollars? They will definitely never worry but behind all that big companies will try to buy at low prices then HODL...
I have seen so much history in various media about bitcoin that I believe it.

[ChuckBuck]

Previously I wanted to ask, have you sold the bitcoin you bought at the time of ATH or not? if yes then it is true that you have lost, and if you have not sold it then it cannot be said to be a loss because the possibility of bitcoin touching the previous ATH or even exceeding the previous ATH is very large.
You have done something right, because when you experience something undesirable (buying bitcoin, then the price drops far from the price when you entered) you continue to try to learn or deepen your knowledge about bitcoin in particular. Because sometimes not a few when they experience something unwanted they immediately stop and even say this is a scam.

I bought bitcoin at ATH and now i am "in loss" not "lost" means i am still holding them for almost two years.
there is no need to say this is scam, it's a cycle which repeats each time and repeated this time also, but i was unlucky that i invested, and my first try was a loss(considering if i sold).

I don't know whether i feel lucky about it or unlucky and sad about it.
In terms of being lucky: I am facing loss for almost 2 years in which i experienced what the bear market look like so next time i can get prepared for this type of dips.
In terms of being unlucky: My money was not working for me for almost 2 years, instead i might invested that money in my countries stock market (which performed very well making new ATHs) then i was in profit for now.

Maybe there is some necessity for forum members to take you seriously, to presume that you are not failing to tell the whole story and/or to consider your own responsibilities in the matter.

Surely, I will praise you if you had held through the whole time, and your story it not so far out there that it could not be true, because I do recognize and appreciate that there are people who go too far into bitcoin by investing too much without having a plan for either price direction, including the extremes, which frequently it seems that the extremes come when not expected, but there are still needs to prepare for them, and it is problematic to go all in to any asset whether bitcoin or anything else if you could have looked at the chart and you could have seen that it had already gone up around 17x from its $4k-ish bottom from either March 2020 or from April 2019.. and going up to $69k-ish in November 2021.

I frequently describe the lump sum buyer at the top as a kind of fantasy situation in which no one would really do.. even though people do those kinds of thing...   

The smarter thing to do, even if you make a lump sum buy at the top, is to continue to buy all the way down and just continue buying, but part of the problem of the lump sum buyer at the top may well be that they don't have any money left for buying... so then the logic may well to be to just sit on the investment, which seems to be your story...

Maybe you will get back to profits, and maybe you never will, and the fact that you sit on your investment rather than continuing to buy, you have a higher price that you have to pray that the BTC price gets back to in order to get back in profits, as compared to the person who continued to buy might well be in the neighborhood of break even or at least way less under water than you, even though maybe the person who continued to buy may well have had ended up investing more into bitcoin.. so instead of buying 1 BTC at $69k (or whatever price and amount you bought), the one who continued to buy may well have ended up buying 2 BTC for a total amount invested of around $95k (see the DCA of $250 per week for the last two years to have had resulted in $26k invested and about 1 BTC accumulated).

So yeah having 1 BTC for $69k versus having 2 BTC for $95k might not feel like it makes too much of a difference, even though there are ways to bring down your average cost per BTC and there are ways to consider that it is fucking less than smart to go all in when the price is rising like that.. even though surely a decent number of people are lured into that kind of FOMO.. and also many of them end up selling - and cutting their losses way sooner rather than riding it out, so there is a bit of smarts to just let the investment ride out when a guy (or gal) realizes that s/he had made such a mistake in the event that s/he is not able to continue to invest to bring down his/her average cost per BTC.

Don't get me wrong.  I did something similar in late 2013 when I first got into bitcoin, and so I continued to buy bitcoin through 2014, 2015, 2016 and 2017 (even though I did not really inject very much new money starting in about late 2016), and so my very first coin was in the negative all the way from late 2013 until about March 2017, but my average cost per BTC was only in the negative until about late 2015..... so I can understand the experience of how long it might take to build a BTC portfolio in the beginning and to get the BTC holdings into solid profits.. while at the same time realizing and appreciating that there are no guarantees regarding BTC's price direction or that it might end up going to zero, so there are needs to figure out position size in accordance with how much you want to put into such a bet.

Regarding your whinny comment about stocks out performing bitcoin in the period in which you invested, and even if true, you remain a dumb-ass if you believe that stocks are a better investment than bitcoin, even if you can figure out ways to spin facts or to selectively look at the bitcoin versus stocks situation in such a way to whine about it and to presume stocks to be a better investment... That kind of comment and dig at bitcoin, sounds quite disingenuine to me... or maybe you are just whining?  In any event, good luck with your investment into stocks and into other non-bitcoin assets, if you believe that is the direction to go..you are likely going to need a wee bit of good luck on your side.

Well, I have to admit, you wrote a really good essay there. You are correct about one thing: there are many success and failure stories in the Bitcoin community. A lot of us recall the swift rises and ensuing falls. Allow me to make a few observations, though:

1. The whole concept of "buying the dip" is easier said than done. When the price skyrockets, FOMO kicks in, and when it plummets, fear takes over. Emotions aren't the best financial advisors.

2. "Continuing to buy all the way down" assumes you've got an endless flow of capital, and it also assumes you can time the market, which, let's face it, most people can't.

3. About your comment on stocks: It's not about whether stocks or BTC are better investments. It's about diversifying and understanding risk. If all you do is chase the next big thing without a strategy, you're playing with fire.
I really like your aggressive style by throwing around terms like "dumb-ass" in a serious discussion. It makes us fell more engaged and closed. We're all here to learn and share, after all. Best of luck with your investments, and I genuinely hope you've learned from your past mistakes.

[lixer]

In the world of films and media success stories, it's nice to show the path to success as a series of funny video inserts to funny music. They show that all this is easy and fun, knowledge seems to get into your head by itself and all solutions are successful and accurate. But in fact, the skill is developed in silence. In a boring, heavy and cheerless silence, in which you need to think, establish logical relationships, draw conclusions and write down. I have three qualifications and this path to knowledge and mastery is always as hard and dreary as I described - in any case. And here, on bitcointalk, the path to knowledge and rank advancement is just as difficult. And the secret of success is simple - you need to love what you do and communicate on topics that interest you.

That's very well explained. Achieving things in life is not as easy as some might portray it to be. The books and movies that we read and watch don't show real stories and they are just imaginative fairy tales where a person wishes for something and achieves it pretty easily without facing a lot of difficulties and hardships, while the reality is totally different. You need to lose a lot of things only to achieve one goal and achieving that goal wouldn't give you enough satisfaction that would justify the hardships you've gone through for it.

So, no matter what it is, whether it's rank in a forum, achieving a certain degree, mastering an art or skill, or anything else, it can all be achieved with hard work and dedication, but as always said by everyone, it won't be easy all the time, but you will achieve it if you don't give up on it and keep going.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

3. About your comment on stocks: It's not about whether stocks or BTC are better investments. It's about diversifying and understanding risk. If all you do is chase the next big thing without a strategy, you're playing with fire.

I think that my response to @cafter's comment on stocks mostly speaks for itself, and largely was intended to point out that there are going to be problems to conclude that stocks are either a better long-term investment than bitcoin, or that anyone would have necessarily been able to figure out how to time getting in and out of bitcoin in such a way that they actually did end up performing better with stocks than they would have by just staying with bitcoin, and sure some people may well could have been able to get in and out (and probably did).... including that it is a lot easier to look at performance after the fact and then figure out how "you should have been allocated" and then how you should have switched and then how you should have switched back....blah blah blah .. rather than just sticking with a longer term plan.. such as building your BTC portfolio over a long time, and sure if you just got into bitcoin in the last 2-3 years, then it is likely to have had been more difficult to build a profitable portfolio in terms of its current dollar value at this time (as compared with stocks), but surely those kinds of selective readings do not mean that stocks are a better investment than bitcoin and likely are not going to be and are not a better investment over a longer time horizon (you can choose for yourself).. especially in the longer term historically and likely not even better in the upcoming future.. though its up to you regarding how you allocate into various assets whether stocks, bitcoin or otherwise...

Again, good luck if you are getting off of bitcoin and into stocks or switching back and forth or if you cannot make up your mind how to allocate, like I already mentioned, you are likely going to need it if you are fucking around and failing/refusing to allocate to bitcoin..or you are getting too enamored with stocks relative to bitcoin.

Perhaps another unstated assumption is regarding trading.. which is getting in and out of assets rather than sticking to them in the long term, so bitcoin has already proven to have had been a better investment than many stocks (if not most and if not when referring to general index stocks) over several kinds of time frames, especially the longer that you zoom out beyond 2 years... and so it becomes a BIG SO FUCKING WHAT.. when trying to whine about bitcoin not sufficiently performing in some kind of a recent framework in which you select the period that you want to show based on gobbledy-gook "reasons"... so a lot of bitcoin naysaying (and even stock correlation) nonsense can be shown and argued in various short-term periods.. which you seem to be supporting those kinds of framings if you feel that you need to come to @cafter's defense.  

Maybe zoom out a bit, and then come back and discuss, if there is any point that you might have been wanting to make that is more than just arguing for the mere sake of it.

I really like your aggressive style by throwing around terms like "dumb-ass" in a serious discussion. It makes us fell more engaged and closed. We're all here to learn and share, after all.

I had meant some of those kinds of "terms of endearment" as emphasis.. Do I need to read back through my earlier post and try to figure out if I might have gone too far (and hurt some feelings) with some of my "terms of endearment/emphasis" in a few places?

Also, do you believe that I should have been more welcoming to @cafter's comments, even if to me they were coming off as questionable in terms of their genuineness?  

What would Jesus do?  

Is there a forum interaction (posting) standard that you would like for me to have had followed?
 

Best of luck with your investments, and I genuinely hope you've learned from your past mistakes.

This is a bit of a mish-mash of questions with a mixed message.  

My Bitcoin is doing quite well... probably ever since about 2016/2017 depending on how it is calculated.. but it was not necessarily even a bad thing to be underwater for a period of time, either..I surely built more bitcoin during times in which the BTC price was down.

I have other non-bitcoin investments too, but so far, I had not been talking about them in this thread.. and I try to mostly focus on bitcoin anyhow, since this forum is somewhat bitcoin focused, even though we have various shitcoiners here too.. and surely sometimes other kinds of investment ideas (and even personal development ideas) can be compared and contrasted (and therefore relevant to) with bitcoin.

Regarding my past mistakes of investing into BTC at the top of the 2013 cycle and then keeping on investing into BTC on the way down through 2014 and beyond.. I don't have any regrets about that, and sure I try to learn how to do things better, even though I don't even consider that I made any major mistakes in my earlier years in bitcoin in light of my own then circumstances... ..

Do you believe that there would have been better ways for me to get into bitcoin, based on what was my own situation at that time, from your Monday morning quarter-backing perspective?

From your forum registration date (which is late 2013), it appears that maybe we could have had gotten into bitcoin at around the same time, perhaps?  (even though the trust feedback on your account appears that maybe you sold your account somewhere between 2015-2017.. so maybe you don't even have bitcoin experiences dating back to late 2013 beyond maybe some kinds of fictional representations that you would like to make, after the fact.)

Do you have a bitcoin related story?

Would you like to say that whatever you did in regards to your bitcoin journey and your other ways of "diversifying" was better than what I did?  

Did you start investing in bitcoin in late 2013 or at some other time (or maybe you haven't even yet started?)?  

Have you ever said what it was that you did in regards to bitcoin and/or how your other investments (bitcoin related or otherwise) might have related to your bitcoin investing and your current state of knowledge on the topic?...

Over the years of my forum registration and in the forum, I have discussed in quite a bit of detail regarding what I did in regards to bitcoin, but surely sometimes I like to use hypothetical numbers so I am not really trying to compete with anyone in regards to some of the personal specifics, except maybe in the ideas arena or maybe when some members try to act like they know it all or are able to beat a DCA approach or some other kind of proclamations that may or may not be applicable to what other forum members might want to do (or consider doing)..

Do you have some ideas in regards to some of these better kinds of investment approaches into BTC?

Maybe you should provide some kind of a framework for how you might have had considered investing (whether BTC or otherwise), to maybe show you might have a lot of these bitcoin and investment matters figured out and how you might have had been able to outperform my own approach to BTC (which I largely consider variations of DCA investing) or to have been able to outperform a regular DCA investing into BTC approach over the past 10-ish years?  

Go ahead.  I am all ears.

[Woodie]

We all wish life was easier, but it's not so we've got to make do with what we have.

The degree you want, the career you want, and the business you dream to have won't come easy. I'm of the notion that life doesn't want you to succeed. If you run away from every obstacle then you will never achieve your goal.

Life was never meant to be easy agreed, especially if we go by the theory of Natural Selection that says only the strong shall survive which is unfortunate for many...but then again the rules of survival when it comes to us humans seems to have changed as you can easily inherent wealth from family that can put you in a better position than you were..but if this isn't available to you work hard to give yourself a serving chance.

I keep seeing forum members make complaints about not getting merits and all. It will be very hypocritical of me to say we shouldn't care about merit and ranking up, but your desire to rank up should lead you in the right direction.

I don't get the connection between merit and life tbh because the merit system is quite complex as it goes to show which users are technical,  informative,  entertaining,  belong to a clique etcetera unlike life which has a blueprint of what one needs to do to succeed...

[JunaidAzizi]

I keep seeing forum members make complaints about not getting merits and all. It will be very hypocritical of me to say we shouldn't care about merit and ranking up, but your desire to rank up should lead you in the right direction.

When I came first here I saw the hero and legendary members and their merits. I was thinking that it was very easy just to write a post and get merits on it. But when I started I came to know that it a very difficult and needs a lot of work and knowledge. A time when I got only 3 pr 5 merits in a month and it discouraged me several times but I did not give up and started working now I am a full member but I am not stopping here and I am going to move ahead and my next goal is Hero member which I will achieve one day.

The goal of a business is to make a profit but you can't make a profit if certain things are not done right. If you just pursue profit without thinking about other factors, your business will fail.

I totally agree with you, you make it very clear that the goals did not come very easily. We saw a millionaire who has a huge bank balance, expensive cars, etc. but we did not know his effort for that,  If a person fails on the first attempt then he needs to do it again again.