[WARNING] Whirlwind.money - withdrawals are not being processed ⚠️

[jokers10]

No, I dont think so.
First people who need to get refunded is campaign participants because they received payments from manager in IOU notes against their will.
I am sure most of them would choose to get paid directly in Bitcoin and later deposit to earn more rewards if they want.
People who sent their own money for mixing did it on their own risk, but everyone needs to get refunded if possible.

When you take part in some campaign you agree with its rules or not participate. So it's incorrect saying that way of receiving payments was against the will of participants. If it was just made only now, then it could be discussible, but it was for weeks, everyone who didn't want to risk could exit campaign for that time.

I hope there's less losses than deposited at escrow and everyone will get refunds, but first I guess we should find out how many are at a loss for a decision to be as fair as possible.

@Hhampuz when you talked to them the other day, did you explain that unless they come and sort these issues out asap they will be seen as a scam as that's exactly what is happening now and that is not something that is easy to recover from considering their line of business. If you indeed explained them consequences and they decided to ignore it...

If they don't understand that by themselves, they have very few chances on restoring reputation. They still can try to solve all problems with payments, but their type of service means they need a deep trust from users... and who will trust to deposit bitcoins to their Notes now?

[Hhampuz]

@Hhampuz when you talked to them the other day, did you explain that unless they come and sort these issues out asap they will be seen as a scam as that's exactly what is happening now and that is not something that is easy to recover from considering their line of business. If you indeed explained them consequences and they decided to ignore it...

Yes. I mentioned the unrest here, together with the scam accusations starting to brew.

[hugeblack]

Whoever this person was, he knew about the forum very well. He must know a lot of us and how we behave. So he knew where were the holes.

I started to believe this, in the past I did not think that he was a scam because the account was created before March 15 (the date of CM seizure), he has a technical background, in the first there was fast mode and note mode where it was not easy to scam users with fast mode and if scam with note mode they have 40k as a guarantee, and then talk about the fact that the service is decentralized.

There were indications that they did not have a large budget, such as spending on campaign signatures was less over time.


This reminds me of a mixing service that had money in bitcointalk escrow and suddenly pulled out before exit scam.

6 weeks is not huge amount of money for most people but I bet it still hurts to get screwed like this.
This is worse than having your money stuck in exchange or gambling website.

If this is true, then I think that 12% made them promote the service almost for free, as I think that most of the participants did not withdraw their currencies, but on the contrary, some may be greedy to deposit more.


Flag supported with negative trust.

[notblox1]

I can't remember when exactly, but I personally didn't complain because those were the terms of the campaign so if you don't like it, what you can do is to leave the campaign (I doubt that there would be expection for those who complained) and on top of that I've been in a campaign before where I wasn't paid directly to my wallet (Bustadice) and never had any issues. Lesson learned I guess.

If everyone or majority of members complained than it would not be possible for anyone to force this changes.
All participant share small responsibility for keeping quiet, and I would not agree on this terms myself if I was in that position.
But it is easy for me to be general now when battle is over  
I wish luck to everyone and I hope you get back coins you earned fair.

[Rikafip]

Yes. I mentioned the unrest here, together with the scam accusations starting to brew.

If that didn't persuade them to do something, then indeed we can talk about exit scam here. Someone who intends to continue business here would do everything in his power to sort the issues asap and not leave it like this.

If everyone or majority of members complained than it would not be possible for anyone to force this changes.

Maybe, if we all said no to the notes. Or we would be replaced with those that would be willing to get paid that way as not getting paid directly is not something unusual here and its been done many times before.

and I would not agree on this terms myself if I was in that position.

The fact that no one (afaik) left campaign after notes introduction says a lot.  

[notblox1]

When you take part in some campaign you agree with its rules or not participate. So it's incorrect saying that way of receiving payments was against the will of participants. If it was just made only now, then it could be discussible, but it was for weeks, everyone who didn't want to risk could exit campaign for that time.

You just decided to write something smart right? Before reading carefully what other people wrote 
This campaign didnt start with paying IOU notes from start, this was later changed and I dont know by whos initiative and what was the reason for doing this.

If this is true, then I think that 12% made them promote the service almost for free, as I think that most of the participants did not withdraw their currencies, but on the contrary, some may be greedy to deposit more.

I dont know if there is any way to prove this theory, but it is possible.
This is all done by stealing money from other people.

The fact that no one (afaik) left campaign after notes introduction says a lot. 

Some members left campaign recently, maybe they had a feeling something is not right.

[TryNinja]

This campaign didnt start with paying IOU notes from start, this was later changed and I dont know by whos initiative and what was the reason for doing this.

My reply on the other thread:

I don’t remember if I praised the change, but I did understand the reason for that. More money going around their multisig address = more privacy for everyone else, specially their customers. Assuming they were legit and not premeditating an exit scam, it was a smart move.

Let’s all remember that everyone could withdraw at any time, week after week, meaning that if you were to withdraw the next day after every payout, you would only have lost this week’s (last) payout.

Some members left campaign recently, maybe they had a feeling something is not right.

I was one of those members. I doubt anyone left because they were feeling a scam… most, myself included, moved to MixTum because they had a better deal.

[jokers10]

When you take part in some campaign you agree with its rules or not participate. So it's incorrect saying that way of receiving payments was against the will of participants. If it was just made only now, then it could be discussible, but it was for weeks, everyone who didn't want to risk could exit campaign for that time.

You just decided to write something smart right? Before reading carefully what other people wrote 
This campaign didnt start with paying IOU notes from start, this was later changed and I dont know by whos initiative and what was the reason for doing this.

If I suppose that you have a habit of reading carefully what other people write before answering them, it looks strange that you didn't take into account that I never said that these rules were from the beginning and I said that participants had several weeks to leave the campaign. But, well, we'll not change the topic on talking about each others intentions or qualities, right?

When you take part in campaign you know that rules can be changed and you can accept new rules or leave that campaign. Having new rules for weeks, it is incorrect to say that it became surprising for participants just now.

You mixed up the authorship of the last quote.

[Synchronice]

snip

I disagree with you. Aggressive marketing is just a type of marketing that works very well in a short timeframe and gives a huge boost to brand's awareness. Logically, every new service should come up with aggressive marketing at first, otherwise they won't become famous anytime soon. Since you mentioned Chipmixer, I spend an hour to learn them a little and as I see, they absolutely started on this forum with an aggressive marketing. They also came up when one of the most famous mixer left the market. So, Chipmixer took an advantage of the moment of Bitmixer leaving the market, then they came here with a review campaign and started a signature campaign with pretty good pay rates, hired a lot of participants, kept the fixed bitcoin payrate when it was going up and up. They were paying hundreds of thousands of dollars per week. Chipmixer was no joke, I can't compare Whirlwind to them. Don't know much about other signature campaigns but I bet there must be many companies that did aggressive marketing and still operate on this forum. Probably Stake? Idk.

I think the situation for whirlwind was the following: They had two plans, either stay on the business or if it wasn't going to become profitable, then just exit. I believe their intention was not to scam when they decided to start this business but as it seems, their plan didn't work, the money that they were putting into campaign didn't bring back enough profit. But I don't know why did they left $40k in escrow with minerjones.

[LoyceV]

But I don't know why did they left $40k in escrow with minerjones.

They agreed to a 7 day delay. They couldn't withdraw from escrow to pull an exit scam.

[Lillominato89]

I'm only reading now that whirlwind turned out to be a scam! I honestly never expected it, the platform worked perfectly as long as I too was part of the whirlwind signature campaign. fortunately I have always withdrawn everything I could because I prefer to keep everything in my pocket and I don't blame those who wanted to leave the funds on the WW website, 12% is tempting for everyone! I support the flag as a sign of proximity to the forum members affected by the scam

[coupable]

This isn't a scam accusation (at least not yet), but a heads-up for the community. Taking everything into account, I believe it's in everyone's best interest to hold off on using the service for the time being. It would be wise to wait until we get some feedback from their representatives and the service gets back on track. I'll keep this thread updated as the situation progresses.

I would like to thank you for your position in support of the community and your understanding of the circumstances surrounding the entire situation, since we do not yet have sufficient information about the reasons for what is happening, especially the secret of the sudden disappearance of the stuff team without any prior notification or explanation.
The most dangerous point in this mode is that it gives an opportunity for scammers to create fake copies of the mixer and claim that it is back in action. Therefore, I advise everyone not to use Whirlwind services for a period after it has restored its activity (if this happens) and wait for the reviews.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

snip

I disagree with you. Aggressive marketing is just a type of marketing that works very well in a short timeframe and gives a huge boost to brand's awareness. Logically, every new service should come up with aggressive marketing at first, otherwise they won't become famous anytime soon.

Consider you have $100k marketing budget and considering how the signature campaign works [it takes time to receive ROI for many reasons], you thought to spend $10k per week. You are going to stay in the competition for only 10 weeks. What happen you have no result in these 10 weeks? You are out of budget. You have no money left for the 11th week.

But if you were cool enough and knew your limit then started with even a $2k weekly budget, you could continue for nearly a year [50 weeks]. In these 50 weeks combining with any other promotions you could receive far more better result and your business could survive [in a year time, still you were not able to have a result then it is obvious that your product is not good enough for people]. So which method you think is better?

Aggressive marketing does not mean you run out of budget very quickly then kill the project. Without marketing your business has zero visibility.

I can not remember exactly how much Chipmixer was paying when they first launched their campaign.

[NotATether]

I can not remember exactly how much Chipmixer was paying when they first launched their campaign.

Up to 0.0375BTC per week (which translates to 0.00075BTC per post) until late 2021 bullrun when Bitcoin price became crazy, then it was up to $300/week after that until they were seized.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

I can not remember exactly how much Chipmixer was paying when they first launched their campaign.

Up to 0.0375BTC per week (which translates to 0.00075BTC per post) until late 2021 bullrun when Bitcoin price became crazy, then it was up to $300/week after that until they were seized.

If I can remember correctly, first few weeks it was somewhere a round figure per posts. Consider my memory is serving correct then it was 0.0007 per post. At that time bitcoin price was around only $2,000 to $2,200.

snip

I disagree with you. Aggressive marketing is just a type of marketing that works very well in a short timeframe and gives a huge boost to brand's awareness. Logically, every new service should come up with aggressive marketing at first, otherwise they won't become famous anytime soon.

@Synchronice  what do you think now?

Later they increased the rate and it was 0.00075 until they changed it to $6 when bitcoin price was $30k more and above.

In late 2017 and early 2018 when Bitcoin price was $19,000 to $20,000 only for few weeks, then 0.00075 per posts was a lot but imagine how much bitcoin they already had when they started? The price was even below $1k when they were creating the mixer. They already had enough bitcoin to cover the marketing expense that was calculating in dollar.

Chipmixer was never aggressive. Their growth was steady and normal.

[Synchronice]

snip

I disagree with you. Aggressive marketing is just a type of marketing that works very well in a short timeframe and gives a huge boost to brand's awareness. Logically, every new service should come up with aggressive marketing at first, otherwise they won't become famous anytime soon.

@Synchronice  what do you think now?

Later they increased the rate and it was 0.00075 until they changed it to $6 when bitcoin price was $30k more and above.

In late 2017 and early 2018 when Bitcoin price was $19,000 to $20,000 only for few weeks, then 0.00075 per posts was a lot but imagine how much bitcoin they already had when they started? The price was even below $1k when they were creating the mixer. They already had enough bitcoin to cover the marketing expense that was calculating in dollar.

Chipmixer was never aggressive. Their growth was steady and normal.

Right now all I think about is that Chipmixer paid up to 731 BTC and even if we calculate all of their spending in USD value at the time of transaction, it still looks like they paid millions of dollars . I mean, what crazy amount of money were they earning to afford pay that much? Or what was the benefit they were getting each week from bitcointalk signature campaign? Hands down, I'm just left without words.

There is a big competition on the market. You have Sinbad, Yomix and Mixtum as a competitors who try to catch chipmixer participants and promote their business through them because Chipmixer had very high quality posters. Even me, as a newbie noticed that everyone who was wearing Chipmixer signature and Foxpup avatar, was always posting genuine posts and over time, I even remembered half of Chipmixer participants and when I see a nickname, I know that some of them were in their sig campaign.
So, when you see that chipmixer is gone but the appetite of Chipmixer signature promoters is very high and there you have other competitors who are ready to increase rates in order to get high quality posters, then you have no other choice but to do an aggressive marketing.

[Rikafip]

They agreed to a 7 day delay. They couldn't withdraw from escrow to pull an exit scam.

If they decided to leave those 40k, wouldn't that mean that people deposited more than that + what sig campaign members didn't withdraw? If not, then it would make more sense to pay out everyone what is owed and take that 40k.

[fillippone]

But I don't know why did they left $40k in escrow with minerjones.

They agreed to a 7 day delay. They couldn't withdraw from escrow to pull an exit scam.

Maybe it’s too early to do this kind of speculation, as I still haven’t received my amounts from MinerJones, but provided that he doesn’t scam (sorry for even thinking about this)
I am trying to figure out what we could have learned from this.

Shall a signature wearer not use the service he was advertising (namely: transfer any amount out of it asap because of NYKNYC)?
Shall a signature wearer use the service and be fully accountable, in a harsh way, for any losses?
Maybe a new "standard" of a reputable escrow should be initiated for any sig campaign? This has obvious implications for anyone willing to start a new one for the associated cost. And also maybe for the escrow.

[Synchronice]

But I don't know why did they left $40k in escrow with minerjones.

They agreed to a 7 day delay. They couldn't withdraw from escrow to pull an exit scam.

Maybe it’s too early to do this kind of speculation, as I still haven’t received my amounts from MinerJones, but provided that he doesn’t scam (sorry for even thinking about this)
I am trying to figure out what we could have learned from this.

Shall a signature wearer not use the service he was advertising (namely: transfer any amount out of it asap because of NYKNYC)?
Shall a signature wearer use the service and be fully accountable, in a harsh way, for any losses?
Maybe a new "standard" of a reputable escrow should be initiated for any sig campaign? This has obvious implications for anyone willing to start a new one for the associated cost. And also maybe for the escrow.

There should be some amount of money in escrow, a quantity that will be enough to cover one week, like Royse does.
It's 100% up to you and it's also a personal choice whether you leave funds in the service you advertise, or not. You shouldn't promote business by saying that I don't leave funds in this service because of not your keys, not your coins. This is not a business deal, such an advertisement will only negatively affect the business and there won't be any purpose to hire you if you do anti-marketing.

[examplens]

Some members left campaign recently, maybe they had a feeling something is not right.

I was one of those members. I doubt anyone left because they were feeling a scam… most, myself included, moved to MixTum because they had a better deal.

If I understood correctly, I think that GazetaBitcoin left the campaign solely because of dissatisfaction with the work of Whirlwind. Lack of communication and unclear staking calculations as a main problems. Not because of moving to a better-paid campaign.


Can someone confirm what "Anonymity set, 572user deposits" means?
Does this mean that currently, 572 users (addresses) have a deposit there? As far as I can see, the last deposit was 4 days ago, does that mean that nobody has used this mixer since then?