Bitcoin negatives

[Dunamisx]

I may not say that bitcoin is 100% the perfect solution but what it offers us today is the exact solution to the financial and economical challenges we are all facing with the government, so when you're talking about negative aspect i may not argue much because it will surely exist no matter how the little or small it may appear, the advantage is what we look on to and embrace the decentralization for our own personal interest, the solution is far better than any form of negative influence others may thought about with bitcoin adoption.

[zeuner]

What toxic waste Bitcoin produce?

From a miner themselves

https://youtu.be/K8kua5B5K3I?t=283

"The rest is waste materials" Those power supplies are toxic waste materials.

How is this specific to PoW, and would not apply to every other industry that uses electricity?

And at an even more relevant note, what other industry would work just as well as before when you scale its electricity supply down to 50%? 1%? 0,1%?

[SamReomo]

Your thread is a useless one and you know that yourself. First of all, I should clarify one thing for you that it's literally impossible for a single person to control 51% of the network and even 50% of the network. No one is rich enough to control that much of the network not even a whole country can control that much of the network in current times.

You're totally wrong the Bitcoin transactions are quite fast and smooth and the shortest time a transaction takes is just 10 minutes. Sometimes the transactions takes 30 minutes and that's still okay because the transactions made using Bitcoin are safe and no other payment method is close to the safety that Bitcoin transactions provide.

You're wrong high network fee costs more than a whole roasted chicken but only during the times when network is congested. On regular times the transaction fee is quite low and the best thing about it is that even if you make a transaction of $10000000 to a single address the fee will remain the same.

Bitcoin doesn't creates any kind of toxic wastes because it's totally digital in nature. The pollution caused is due to the mining equipment's or due to heat that they produce. The Bitcoin is totally pollution-less and I must say that most of the miners are shifting towards green and renewable energy resources which doesn't deplete anything in a adverse way.

[goldkingcoiner]

Bitcoin:

93% premine to anyone born today.

100% premine to anyone born in 2140.

Causes toxic waste material (even hal said this).

Waste of energy that could be used to solve cancer or feed people (hal said this).

1 person can be 50% of the network.

Fiat can buy all the miners and coins, Central bankers still win.

People have been killed for it and tortured (sure this happens with fiat but the blood is on your hands now).

Network fee only goes back to miners this leaves no funding for roads, garbage, schools, medicare or disabled veterans.

1-3 hour transactions

high network fee cost more than the coffee you are buying

Only 1 miner wins in the end then it becomes centralized, he can push all the other miners out. This will be the FED.
this simulation proves it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q41RW6bxpM4

All your arguments have nothing to do with Bitcoin itself. But I will try to go through your list with solutions, point by point.

1. A capped supply is a good thing, unless you prefer inflation because the supply keeps being artificially pumped.

2. Bitcoin does not cause toxic waste. Miners do. But so do personal computers and phones. That's not a Bitcoin problem.

3. Energy problems are rooted in how we produce energy. Blaming the consumers in how they use energy is backwards thinking.

4. 1 person could theoretically own 50% of the network. But thanks to POW, that's not realistic.

5. You can buy miners with BTC.

6. Network fees are not that high. See lightning network.

[coolcoinz]

Bitcoin:

93% premine to anyone born today.

100% premine to anyone born in 2140.

You don't understand what a premined coin is. Premine means part of the coin is mined, or put away, before coin's launch, so that the community cannot have access, unless that part of the supply is released by the person controlling it. In case of bitcoin the supply is distributed among users with the help of a free market. There was and there will be no premine, regardless of when you are born.


When it comes to buying all the bitcoin, only roughly 2 million is available for sale on exchanges. In theory countries could buy it all out with printed money, but they'd be able to buy only as much as there is for sale. After buying 50% of supply on exchanges the price would skyrocket to some crazy prices because people would start testing them out, opening trades for 1M USD, then 2, 5, and so on. If they saw their 5M sales complete, they'd set the next one for 10 and so on. Which country would be able to print so much money that they'd be buying bitcoin at the price of $10M a coin?

Supply and demand have to stay balanced. If someone crates increasing demand, the market price is going to increase exponentially into infinite numbers, meaning that after all coins on exchanges are bought out, the sky is the limit as to what people would want for their coins.

[summonerrk]

~~~

Yes, the creation of new bitcoins carries a similar trail described above.
But did gold or diamond mining bring more positivity? A huge amount of blood was shed for these valuable resources, in the same way it can be argued that the effort to extract gold bullion could have been spent on extracting food or building houses for the poor. But why ? The world is full of people who are controlled not by altruism but by greed and greed for profit. And that's fine.

Let's talk about dollars and any fiat. They are printed, is this a completely eco-friendly production? In addition to electricity, chemical components are used for this when compared with cryptocurrency mining. Therefore, I do not consider bitcoin mining to be something harmful to the world.

[Tony116]

~~~

Yes, the creation of new bitcoins carries a similar trail described above.
But did gold or diamond mining bring more positivity? A huge amount of blood was shed for these valuable resources, in the same way it can be argued that the effort to extract gold bullion could have been spent on extracting food or building houses for the poor. But why ? The world is full of people who are controlled not by altruism but by greed and greed for profit. And that's fine.

Let's talk about dollars and any fiat. They are printed, is this a completely eco-friendly production? In addition to electricity, chemical components are used for this when compared with cryptocurrency mining. Therefore, I do not consider bitcoin mining to be something harmful to the world.

OP's thread is a stupid and pointless topic. There is no denying that bitcoin mining requires energy and the result of mining is also emitting waste that pollutes the environment. But if judged fairly, all industries use energy and are polluting the environment to a certain extent. What's more important is that they all serve the benefit of the user, and the user is us. Bitcoin too, it is bringing a lot of benefits to us from profits and other utilities. So, it would be quite one-sided and somewhat stupid to deliberately slander bitcoin mining and ignore other industries.

[KiaKia]

Bitcoin:

93% premine to anyone born today.

100% premine to anyone born in 2140.

Causes toxic waste material (even hal said this).

Waste of energy that could be used to solve cancer or feed people (hal said this).

1 person can be 50% of the network.

Fiat can buy all the miners and coins, Central bankers still win.

People have been killed for it and tortured (sure this happens with fiat but the blood is on your hands now).

Network fee only goes back to miners this leaves no funding for roads, garbage, schools, medicare or disabled veterans.

1-3 hour transactions

high network fee cost more than the coffee you are buying

Only 1 miner wins in the end then it becomes centralized, he can push all the other miners out. This will be the FED.
this simulation proves it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q41RW6bxpM4

This is very funny, Fiat can buy miners and Bitcoin, and that makes central bank the winner? Why must they buy? They should try to print Bitcoin if truly they are worthy to be a winner, since they can print money as they want, buying Bitcoin makes them bow to Bitcoin.

It's like Bitcoin saying, You have to buy me or buy miners to get me, you can't print me, Since central banks are in control of paper money, that's the least of what they can control, they have no power over Bitcoin.

Being able to print money and buy doesn't make them the winner, remember, they aren't the only ones buying, They have to join the queue of millions of buyers around the world, there are no levels to prove here.

With Bitcoin, you give something to get some Bitcoin, with Fiat they give nothing but use paper and ink to print money. The difference is night and day.

[MinoRaiola]

Fiat can buy all the miners and coins, Central bankers still win.

They can never buy all the coins, or even all the Miner. The most hodlers will not sell all their coins, i think. The price would be too high to sell all of them and a big part of coins is lost, so they will never buy them. And all the Miners around the world, oh no, that is impossible too. All over the world there are different ways to buy a miner or run it online. Many of them will not sell everything if the price is very good, they will always keep a small part and protect it.

[justdimin]

I may not say that bitcoin is 100% the perfect solution but what it offers us today is the exact solution to the financial and economical challenges we are all facing with the government, so when you're talking about negative aspect i may not argue much because it will surely exist no matter how the little or small it may appear, the advantage is what we look on to and embrace the decentralization for our own personal interest, the solution is far better than any form of negative influence others may thought about with bitcoin adoption.

This is something I wholeheartedly agree, we may not have any solution to it that is better than bitcoin right now and that is why it matters so much.

The only fair thing I could say about bitcoin is that it does spend a lot of energy right now and we could definitely find a better suited program that would be better, staking that ETH uses so far seems to be working and turning bitcoin into that may take many many years but at least we have a way to do that and I think it should be important to keep repeating that whenever we can, it should be a big deal. Obviously it will take some time but we could make that work and that's important. Of course it is not that big of a deal if you are not careful about it as well.

[Dunamisx]

I may not say that bitcoin is 100% the perfect solution but what it offers us today is the exact solution to the financial and economical challenges we are all facing with the government, so when you're talking about negative aspect i may not argue much because it will surely exist no matter how the little or small it may appear, the advantage is what we look on to and embrace the decentralization for our own personal interest, the solution is far better than any form of negative influence others may thought about with bitcoin adoption.

This is something I wholeheartedly agree, we may not have any solution to it that is better than bitcoin right now and that is why it matters so much.

The only fair thing I could say about bitcoin is that it does spend a lot of energy right now and we could definitely find a better suited program that would be better, staking that ETH uses so far seems to be working and turning bitcoin into that may take many many years but at least we have a way to do that and I think it should be important to keep repeating that whenever we can, it should be a big deal. Obviously it will take some time but we could make that work and that's important. Of course it is not that big of a deal if you are not careful about it as well.

We cannot compare bitcoin PoW with PoS, bitcoin is far better than them in many ways because with bitcoin, you have to show and work it out unlike the other crytpo mining the stakeholders make decisions, we can also compare bitcoin mining site with other mining site used for natural resources like gold and petroleum, we could see the difference, bitcoin mining being environmentally friendly, less harm and also making effective use of the energies that could be rendered useless for it mining purpose, this is bitcoin and people were running after it's adoption because they have seen many potentials in its adoption when they accept it.

[Texac]

I may not say that bitcoin is 100% the perfect solution but what it offers us today is the exact solution to the financial and economical challenges we are all facing with the government, so when you're talking about negative aspect i may not argue much because it will surely exist no matter how the little or small it may appear, the advantage is what we look on to and embrace the decentralization for our own personal interest, the solution is far better than any form of negative influence others may thought about with bitcoin adoption.

This is something I wholeheartedly agree, we may not have any solution to it that is better than bitcoin right now and that is why it matters so much.

The only fair thing I could say about bitcoin is that it does spend a lot of energy right now and we could definitely find a better suited program that would be better, staking that ETH uses so far seems to be working and turning bitcoin into that may take many many years but at least we have a way to do that and I think it should be important to keep repeating that whenever we can, it should be a big deal. Obviously it will take some time but we could make that work and that's important. Of course it is not that big of a deal if you are not careful about it as well.

We cannot compare bitcoin PoW with PoS, bitcoin is far better than them in many ways because with bitcoin, you have to show and work it out unlike the other crytpo mining the stakeholders make decisions, we can also compare bitcoin mining site with other mining site used for natural resources like gold and petroleum, we could see the difference, bitcoin mining being environmentally friendly, less harm and also making effective use of the energies that could be rendered useless for it mining purpose, this is bitcoin and people were running after it's adoption because they have seen many potentials in its adoption when they accept it.

That's right, there is no denying that bitcoin is not 100% perfect and has its downsides too.  but it would be quite unfair to suggest that bitcoin mining is harmful to the environment while the mining industry for gold or other metals is not. I don't have mining power usage figures for gold and bitcoin to compare, so I can't say which would be less harmful to the environment.  but I know both are beneficial for us and even bitcoin offers more utility and use cases than gold.  so let's be fair, bitcoin isn't perfect but it's brought a lot of benefits to us.

[internetional]

93% premine to anyone born today.

Why do you think it's negative for Bitcoin? Only minority of bitcoiners mine. In 2012, when I first heard about "the money of the future", I knew that I could mine some coins myself. But mining seemed to me very complicated, and required investments. So I preferred to buy some coins, not to mine them. I still consider that decision as a good one. And it doesn't matter which rate of coins is already mined: 40% or 93%.

100% premine to anyone born in 2140.

Why do you think it's negative for Bitcoin? If all the coins are already mined, it means that there is no inflation in Bitcoin anymore. A perfect asset for savings, isn't it?

[Ayers]

I may not say that bitcoin is 100% the perfect solution but what it offers us today is the exact solution to the financial and economical challenges we are all facing with the government, so when you're talking about negative aspect i may not argue much because it will surely exist no matter how the little or small it may appear, the advantage is what we look on to and embrace the decentralization for our own personal interest, the solution is far better than any form of negative influence others may thought about with bitcoin adoption.

This is something I wholeheartedly agree, we may not have any solution to it that is better than bitcoin right now and that is why it matters so much.

The only fair thing I could say about bitcoin is that it does spend a lot of energy right now and we could definitely find a better suited program that would be better, staking that ETH uses so far seems to be working and turning bitcoin into that may take many many years but at least we have a way to do that and I think it should be important to keep repeating that whenever we can, it should be a big deal. Obviously it will take some time but we could make that work and that's important. Of course it is not that big of a deal if you are not careful about it as well.

As @Dunamisx said, if you compare the energy of gold mining with bitcoin mining then bitcoin mining is a lot more eco-friendly. It doesn't consume as much energy as the tabloids are spreading. The important thing is that bitcoin has as many uses as gold or any other asset, so it cannot be said that bitcoin mining is a waste. Moreover, as long as all miners switch to using clean energy to mine bitcoin, everything will be fine. We don't need to make any further changes to bitcoin. I mean, I don't expect any developments to make bitcoin as useless as ETH.

[Ojima-ojo]

Op is in a lot of confusion right now and seems to have hard total misconceptions about Bitcoin, its impact and who controls the network, from the numerous wrong assumption mentioned in the op, it clear that op have a lot to unlearn to be able to understand the context and content of bitcoin properly, but let me take time to dive on the notion that 50% miners controls the network

It seems, OP have a wrong notion and lacks a clear understanding of the difference between the Bitcoin proof of work network, and the Ethereum proof of stake network, Network manipulation by the higher liquidity provider is the proof of stake network is possible but in the POW network no single miner or group of miner can control the network so the 50% control ops mentioned is not possible in the Bitcoin network.

[summonerrk]

~~~

Yes, the creation of new bitcoins carries a similar trail described above.
But did gold or diamond mining bring more positivity? A huge amount of blood was shed for these valuable resources, in the same way it can be argued that the effort to extract gold bullion could have been spent on extracting food or building houses for the poor. But why ? The world is full of people who are controlled not by altruism but by greed and greed for profit. And that's fine.

Let's talk about dollars and any fiat. They are printed, is this a completely eco-friendly production? In addition to electricity, chemical components are used for this when compared with cryptocurrency mining. Therefore, I do not consider bitcoin mining to be something harmful to the world.

OP's thread is a stupid and pointless topic. There is no denying that bitcoin mining requires energy and the result of mining is also emitting waste that pollutes the environment. But if judged fairly, all industries use energy and are polluting the environment to a certain extent. What's more important is that they all serve the benefit of the user, and the user is us. Bitcoin too, it is bringing a lot of benefits to us from profits and other utilities. So, it would be quite one-sided and somewhat stupid to deliberately slander bitcoin mining and ignore other industries.

Not so stupid and pointless, since everyone sooner or later thinks about it. If you look at the mining of cryptocurrencies from the outside, then from the outside it really looks like money, electricity, premises and efforts are being spent on some kind of business, the result of which cannot even be seen or held in your hands, in other words, something intangible, like things from computer games. Therefore, this question arises. But in fact, if you at least delve a little into and understand the meaning of blockchain and cryptocurrencies, it will be obvious that this is a useful thing, which is many times more necessary than many things that are costly for resources and labor.
After all, this thing can change the world, and it already does, unlike the same premises with equipment that consumes electricity and contains, for example, servers of stupid games, or boring sites that were not and will not be of any use.

[AnonBitCoiner]

Bitcoin has never been perfect and there will always be drawbacks, but what you seemingly want is something that can only come out in a perfect world where every single entity is moral/ethical and every circumstance is ideal. Good luck with that.

Nothing is perfect in this universe and anything you choose will have some positive aspects and some negative aspects. If we are trying to find those things which does not have any drawbacks then we can never be successful because there is nothing exist without drawbacks.

Bitcoin possess both negative and positive characteristics so if we wants to get good outcomes then we should know how to be profitable with such negativity. Those who become Billionaire with bitcoin investment did not tiered in their efforts but they spent the difficult time by using useful strategies to achieve their desired destination.

Market condition can be changes but we have to utilize our brain to take better decisions and utilize our patience to reach to the perfect timing of buying and selling which will be in our favor.

[AHOYBRAUSE]

When I saw the name of the thread I thought we might talk about the volatility, how easy the price can be moved by individuals or the sometimes long confirmation times.

I don't see other negatives to be honest.
Sure the mining aspect and the consequences for the planet are worth talking about, but what's not bad for the environment these days? Mony has to be printed, coins have to be minted, metal has to be digged out of our earth. It all has a certain impact.

I just hate the sometimes long confirmations times, also because I am very unlucky with those.
Sometimes I am getting a transaction and then, even though there have been like 10 confirmation in the last hour, now that I am waiting for one there is none for 1 hour plus. And this happens so often that I feel bitcoin is trolling me actually, haha.

[BVeyron]

Bitcoin:

93% premine to anyone born today.

100% premine to anyone born in 2140.

Causes toxic waste material (even hal said this).

Waste of energy that could be used to solve cancer or feed people (hal said this).

1 person can be 50% of the network.

Fiat can buy all the miners and coins, Central bankers still win.

People have been killed for it and tortured (sure this happens with fiat but the blood is on your hands now).

Network fee only goes back to miners this leaves no funding for roads, garbage, schools, medicare or disabled veterans.

1-3 hour transactions

high network fee cost more than the coffee you are buying

Only 1 miner wins in the end then it becomes centralized, he can push all the other miners out. This will be the FED.
this simulation proves it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q41RW6bxpM4

That's the core thing! Absolutely right! Blockchain is vulnerable to centraliation, since it can turn out to be that all the "sleeping" or "lost" wallets belong to a cryptotycoon, then it will be no difference between fiat money system and crypto money system (thats what happened with dollar): the centralisation of all the capital power in the hands of several rich people. Moreover, while blockchain itself is decentralised, all the infrastructure (both soft and hardware) may become centralised at any moment.

[ChiBitCTy]

How is this thread on the main page but had yet to have bee replied to since August? 

Regardless I think it's a good time to bring this back up.  My two big negatives regarding bitcoin right now are Ordinals and Runes.  I always use to tout bitcoin as the coin that was focused on other things rather than silly on chain jpegs where the blockchain is really not needed.  It's clogging the network, increasing fees, slowing down transactions etc. I feel like we are moving backwards here.

I understand this is good for the price of bitcoin as many people like this foolishness, but I want LEGIT utility, not nonsense.  Satoshi proposed escrow using cryptography and proposed as such in a thread here on the forum.  He even discussed in in his email chain with Sirius.  "I'll be working on that next".  He  never did ( I wish I knew why ) but I sure wish people would pick up the slack with that as that is GAME CHANGIGN technology !