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Author Topic: Does anyone else want to print bitcoin cash (coins or bills)  (Read 3454 times)
PrintCoins
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December 14, 2011, 11:33:56 PM
 #1

I am looking to do a custom bitcoin hologram. On it will be thermal printed the name of the currency producer's website.

This will work in much the same way as the holograms on the Casascius bitcoins. They will be circular and the same size and have a window to show the first characters of a public address behind the hologram sticker.

This will mean that multiple bitcoin cash producers (both bill and coins) will be using the same custom hologram, with basically a personal identifier for them (their website name). I will act as a single source provider so that a fraudulent printer can't come along and pass off bills as though they came from other cash producer.

This will mean that the rather expensive cost of custom hologram initial runs can be split among a pool of multiple producers, and still maintain the authenticity that a hologram provides. The thermal printing of a domain name on a set of holograms isn't expensive.

I can also provide help with pdf generation software for bill and priv/pub printing.

To be considered, I will need:
* A scanned copy of your passport or drivers license (in case you need to be tracked down for fraud)
* A domain name
* A commented piece of text in a web page the domain name points to to show that you own it
* A few hundred dollars (I'll get a more solid estimate once I see what the interest level is).

So in other words, you won't be able to do this anonymously.

Bitmessage.org: BM-2cT3oFVj68gugBD5JFvP3qmoBHWXJQ6ZkT
BTC Addr:18AA1hq6DVHn5WuK1fQhr5CdkqeG5Mj2ZL <--did you like my post? Send some encouragement here.
Print bitcoin bills: http://print.printcoins.com/
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December 15, 2011, 12:00:03 AM
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Hmm..  but if one of the participants does compromise the system (inadvertently or otherwise), it stuffs it up for everyone. ie Weakest link...

One thing I recently discovered about sociopaths - is that they don't necessarily care about hiding their identity.  They seem to figure the world owes them stuff, and if they get in trouble with one group of people or in one area, they'll move on.. the world's a big place.

That said - I do think sharing the costs for this sort of thing would be good, just that you might be best off with a maximum of 3 or 4.

edit: or..  for each 3 or 4 participants - release a slightly different hologram design.  Some sort of consortium of physical bitcoin producers could share tips on security procedures etc and even jointly fund projects such as common redeeming websites etc.

@electricwings   BM-GtyD5exuDJ2kvEbr41XchkC8x9hPxdFd
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December 15, 2011, 12:06:23 AM
 #3

Even though I already have my own hologram, count me in, I would like a share of whatever holograms you come up with.

Is this going to be factory thermal printed (sort of the same way I put ONE BTC on my labels)?

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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December 15, 2011, 12:08:52 AM
 #4

I'm interested by the way, I have a potential backer for this here in Australia.

@electricwings   BM-GtyD5exuDJ2kvEbr41XchkC8x9hPxdFd
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December 15, 2011, 12:31:56 AM
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Even though I already have my own hologram, count me in, I would like a share of whatever holograms you come up with.

Is this going to be factory thermal printed (sort of the same way I put ONE BTC on my labels)?

Yep, there will be a coin logo with the domain name of the printer in circular text on the bottom of the coin. It will be factory thermal printed, and I will have no holograms that don't have a domain name printed on them.

Hmm..  but if one of the participants does compromise the system (inadvertently or otherwise), it stuffs it up for everyone. ie Weakest link...

Indeed. The holograms will be all the same except for the thermal printing of the domain name. The base hologram will not be branded in any way specifically (just a bitcoin and some frillery to make it hard to clone and look good). I will do some diligence in checking on who is receiving these, but I have to expect that if there are enough producers, there is decent odds that one will scam users. In which case, it is his name on the hologram, and it is his reputation that will be tarnished.

When buying physical bitcoins you are buying trust in an individual.

This will also open up the possibility of two or more producers working together to produce bills where neither party knows the private key of the of the bills.
See: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53177
and remove this major problem with physical bitcoins.

The only thing a custom hologram does is strongly verify that the person who applied the hologram is the person identified by the name on the hologram. I am opening this up for multiple parties so that cost of this identifier becomes less of a barrier to entry.

Bitmessage.org: BM-2cT3oFVj68gugBD5JFvP3qmoBHWXJQ6ZkT
BTC Addr:18AA1hq6DVHn5WuK1fQhr5CdkqeG5Mj2ZL <--did you like my post? Send some encouragement here.
Print bitcoin bills: http://print.printcoins.com/
casascius
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December 15, 2011, 12:57:46 AM
 #6

Who's doing them, same guys that did mine?

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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December 15, 2011, 02:01:31 AM
 #7

interested
PrintCoins
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December 15, 2011, 04:30:11 AM
 #8

What a great response. I'll finish up the design and get a quote. This is the same company that Mike uses.

Bitmessage.org: BM-2cT3oFVj68gugBD5JFvP3qmoBHWXJQ6ZkT
BTC Addr:18AA1hq6DVHn5WuK1fQhr5CdkqeG5Mj2ZL <--did you like my post? Send some encouragement here.
Print bitcoin bills: http://print.printcoins.com/
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December 15, 2011, 04:35:58 AM
 #9

I guess coins can only have two holograms since they only have two sides but bills could have more.  I could see up to four holograms on a bill, one on each corner Smiley

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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December 15, 2011, 05:08:00 AM
 #10

I'm interested, but like I've said before, I'm just as interested in franchising, or just buying the holo-stickers from someone with an established reputation (Mike, for example). Maybe southerners want to buy tupilakker with bitcoins up their... noses, which would still be valuable after the bitcoin is redeemed (like smashing a piggie-bank without the smashing).

Greenlandic tupilak. Hand carved, traditional cursed bone figures. Sorry, polar bear, walrus and human remains not available for export.
casascius
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December 15, 2011, 06:59:05 AM
 #11

just a random suggestion for bitcoin bills:

You ought to go and get your own specially watermarked paper at yourownwatermark.com.  The "Southworth Collection" paper used on the Ron Paul bills has the distinction of being available at every OfficeMax and Kinko's in the USA, and if you do a lot of these and place a large enough order, the custom watermarked paper will probably actually cost less than what the Southworth paper costs.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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December 15, 2011, 08:47:58 AM
 #12

Very Interested.
I Had been thinking of doing something similar for sometime.
Too busy with work and family life to make it happen.
I'll be glad to contribute financially.
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December 15, 2011, 06:55:50 PM
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just a random suggestion for bitcoin bills:

You ought to go and get your own specially watermarked paper at yourownwatermark.com.  The "Southworth Collection" paper used on the Ron Paul bills has the distinction of being available at every OfficeMax and Kinko's in the USA, and if you do a lot of these and place a large enough order, the custom watermarked paper will probably actually cost less than what the Southworth paper costs.

They don't offer the 100% cotton paper, which will decrease durability. I just sent them an email to see if they can produce that.

I have been happy with the southworth collection, for the fact that they have been able to take a lot of abuse without falling apart the way wood pulp would.

I am going to do some research and talk to the guy that produced the Ithica Hours to see what their production process was. I think a number of improvements can be made, and a watermark is just one of them.

I am considering making also micro-bills that will be be only twice the size of the hologram. This is likely for sub-one-bitcoin amounts.

Bitmessage.org: BM-2cT3oFVj68gugBD5JFvP3qmoBHWXJQ6ZkT
BTC Addr:18AA1hq6DVHn5WuK1fQhr5CdkqeG5Mj2ZL <--did you like my post? Send some encouragement here.
Print bitcoin bills: http://print.printcoins.com/
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December 15, 2011, 07:33:07 PM
 #14

Very interested!

My Bitcoin Mint
Sound Money...from your hard drive, to your hand!
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December 15, 2011, 07:55:04 PM
 #15

I have decided I am interested in producing bitcoin cheques over the next few months. They would be single-use, so durability is not too much of a concern. Security of the bicoin cheques would rely on two things:

  • The printer can prove that they printed a given document.
  • The printer can prove (to themselves at least) that they or their hardware has no way of knowing the private key once the document is complete.

I decided that holograms would just make the cheques more expensive to produce without really enhancing security.

One thing I want to do for printing proofs is generate a bicoin address of the form: 1*pubLic*private*key*. Does anybody want to help with that? The Private key would be public, as implied.

James' OpenPGP public key fingerprint: EB14 9E5B F80C 1F2D 3EBE  0A2F B3DE 81FF 7B9D 5160
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December 15, 2011, 08:04:04 PM
 #16

I am trying to understand your concept.  Since you are not going to use any method (hologram, etc.) to hide the private key and you stated you actually want the private key to be visible in the clear, what if I:

1) Go to https://www.bitaddress.org
2) Print out one public/private key pair from the web site
3) Fund the keypair with the desired amount
4) Hand the paper to someone as payment

That sounds like exactly what you are talking about - or am I missing something?

Printing the public and private keys would look exactly like this (from bitaddress.org):

Quote
Bitcoin Address:
1BEgrTqRx3XnehgSwfMFav7a8ujtReVsPr                                        

Private Key (Wallet Import Format):
5KM1dnuCPwPHa8kKs2aJQrGVDk2cfDNKqQR76TyfrkCPFZvHJ8r

I do not understand your desire for a different/new format, or what the heck you are talking about to tell the truth.

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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December 15, 2011, 08:07:49 PM
 #17

One thing I want to do for printing proofs is generate a bicoin address of the form: 1*pubLic*private*key*. Does anybody want to help with that? The Private key would be public, as implied.

It isn't possible. 

The only way to get a specific public address is by brute force.  For matching even relatively small patterns it is computationally intensive (search for vanitygen).  Anything beyond a handful of characters becomes computationally infeasible.

You also have the problem of private key being 51 char (in base 58) and the address being only 34. Smiley
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December 15, 2011, 08:14:38 PM
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I am trying to understand your concept.  Since you are not going to use any method (hologram, etc.) to hide the private key and you stated you actually want the private key to be visible in the clear, what if I:

I was planning on the public private key only for "proofs". I want a way to alert people that the test documents are *not* secure.

The actual cheques would use a tamper-evident seal like bit-bills, covered with a silk-screen bearing the name of the printer and possibly series/batch-specific marks.

Edit: I guess I could go for a less ambitious vanity address like: 1*PubLic*.
 

James' OpenPGP public key fingerprint: EB14 9E5B F80C 1F2D 3EBE  0A2F B3DE 81FF 7B9D 5160
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December 15, 2011, 08:17:52 PM
 #19

Ahhhhh.  I see. so you are going to hide the private key "inside" but just not use a hologram to do it.  Got it (I think).

Our family was terrorized by Homeland Security.  Read all about it here:  http://www.jmwagner.com/ and http://www.burtw.com/  Any donations to help us recover from the $300,000 in legal fees and forced donations to the Federal Asset Forfeiture slush fund are greatly appreciated!
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December 15, 2011, 08:27:51 PM
 #20

You might want to look at using scratch offs. That was what I had as my original concept. The plus is that scratch offs are fun.

Tamper evident generic holograms work well for cheques. They might beat any other method as far as ease of application and price.

Bitmessage.org: BM-2cT3oFVj68gugBD5JFvP3qmoBHWXJQ6ZkT
BTC Addr:18AA1hq6DVHn5WuK1fQhr5CdkqeG5Mj2ZL <--did you like my post? Send some encouragement here.
Print bitcoin bills: http://print.printcoins.com/
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