Request: Disable merits in the Wall Observer thread

[LoyceV]

Simple, you just reply "+1 WOmerit". It's been a tradition in the thread for a few years now.

I think you're on to something here: leave the Merit system the way it is now, but on top of that create a system to add "+1 WOmerit" to any post in WO. Like a like, and only existing in WO. It shouldn't add anything to someone's profile, just to the post in question. On second thought: within WO, there should be a "WOmerit: xxx" counter above the user's avatar. But it won't mean anything for ranking up, and won't exist anywhere else so there's no incentive for spammers to get them.

[1714502913]

1714502913

[1714502913]

1714502913

[1714502913]

1714502913

[Rikafip]

Actually its gotten a lot better in there since this thread started to gain some traction. No doubt they will be back at it after attention shifts away from the issue.

Maybe that's all that was needed, some merit sources that are active there realizing that they should be a little bit more selective when it comes to meriting. It would imho be a much better solution than just disabling merit sending there alltogether.

No doubt they will be back at it after attention shifts away from the issue.

If that happens, just bump this thread again.

[joker_josue]

I don't really understand what you've been attempting to say here, at all... You keep framing the discussion in ways that are irrelevant to the original topic at hand.

I don't care how anybody spends their merits outside of the WO thread.

It's just blatantly obvious that the low moderation standard for that particular thread has created a spam problem, which is due to the regular meriting of low-quality, cut-and-paste posts.

Actually its gotten a lot better in there since this thread started to gain some traction. No doubt they will be back at it after attention shifts away from the issue.

I didn't shy away from the OP issue. I commented on an example presented about a post that received merit in WO.

Now the point is this: what is a low-quality post?
You can have one criterion, I can have another, and another user another criterion.
I'm not saying I agree with a post with just a smile. But what can I do if someone thinks it deserves merit? I may not agree, but the person gives the credit to whoever he wants, because there are no rules of how to give merit.

It is true that this may be spamming the WO topic. But to make exceptions in that regard may be made elsewhere in the forum. Besides, it can deprive a user who posts something on that thread that is actually of value and and that it is worthy of merit.

What I could observe from looking at the last 10 pages of this topic is that much of the merit given was given for the purpose of provoking. In a way of saying: "the merits are mine, I give it to whoever I want"

Do I like to see that? No. But they too have the right to do so.
One thing is certain, if someone abuses the use of their smerit, because it is a source of merit, they will be penalised - as has already happened and has been mentioned.

In the meantime, I apologize if I am unable to explain my point of view, as English is not my specialty.

I just hope that tempers calm down and that you can resolve yourself in the best way.

[nutildah]

I didn't shy away from the OP issue. I commented on an example presented about a post that received merit in WO.

But the post in question was written by LoyceV who doesn't post there for the sole reason of getting merits and (as far as I know) isn't an account farmer. He certainly doesn't need them to rank up and had no motivation outside of wanting to contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, he's actually contributed a lot of positive things to the forum, unlike any of the accounts that are "problematic."

Now the point is this: what is a low-quality post?
You can have one criterion, I can have another, and another user another criterion.

For starters, one that would be deleted as spam in any other thread. Another is if it is recognized as a transparent ploy to get merit. Here's a couple such threads for your reference:

Requires support from merit sources - blatant plea for merit
Our Vision: How to change the world in three simple steps by Bitcoin" - copy/paste of tweets presented as original thought

[ibminer]

How about every post within WO being capped at a max of 1 per sMerit giver? 

[LoyceV]

But the post in question was written by LoyceV who doesn't post there for the sole reason of getting merits

I'd argue it shouldn't matter who made a post, although I also try to prevent giving Merit to users who "in general" don't deserve it. It's tricky sometimes.

and (as far as I know) isn't an account farmer.

I have enough sMerit left to create 3 6 Legendary accounts

He certainly doesn't need them to rank up and had no motivation outside of wanting to contribute to the discussion.

I saw an opportunity, and took it. Right before I read fillippone's post I had a small heart attack when checking the Bitcoin price, so it felt only right to share the misery with someone who's price data was just minutes older.
Don't get me wrong: I don't mind getting Merit in WO, but it also seemed like a good recent exemple of how easy it is to get.

How about every post within WO being capped at a max of 1 per sMerit giver?  

You'll just get more posts from "merit farmers".

[JollyGood]

Limiting to 1 sMerit is an option and removing merits completely is another. Ideally, there has to be some way of controlling spam at root level from the contributors perspective where they do not feel the urge to spam rather than spam being reported.

Merits it seems is something that is in massive demand as account farmers try to get their alt-accounts enrolled in the highest paying signature campaigns. They will find ways to spam, beg and concoct stories whilst trying to have posts merited. It really is up to those giving merits to be more responsible as their behaviour determines what action merit seekers take next.

How about every post within WO being capped at a max of 1 per sMerit giver? 

[fillippone]

Simple, you just reply "+1 WOmerit". It's been a tradition in the thread for a few years now.

I think you're on to something here: leave the Merit system the way it is now, but on top of that create a system to add "+1 WOmerit" to any post in WO. Like a like, and only existing in WO. It shouldn't add anything to someone's profile, just to the post in question. On second thought: within WO, there should be a "WOmerit: xxx" counter above the user's avatar. But it won't mean anything for ranking up, and won't exist anywhere else so there's no incentive for spammers to get them.

This is a simple and yet effective idea.
And I guess that for regulars in the WO, “WO merits” would be more valuable than “forum merits”, while the opposite would be for merit farmers, of course.
Of course it would mean a little work from Theymos to implement that.
I recall compiling statistics for forum merits gained in the WO only, there already were a few “WO-legendary” members…

[LoyceV]

I recall compiling statistics for forum merits gained in the WO only, there already were a few “WO-legendary” members…

Up to yesterday's data dump, 150472 slightly over 12 Merits were sent within the WO-thread. That's almost 10% of the total.

Great. Thanks to the this statistic being on public display, we're gonna get a new round of accounts shitposting for merits again, I can feel it.

Sorry for that. I've corrected it.

[nutildah]

Up to yesterday's data dump, 150472 Merits were sent within the WO-thread. That's almost 10% of the total.

Great. Thanks to the this statistic being on public display, we're gonna get a new round of accounts shitposting for merits again, I can feel it. This is how they respond when you ask merit farmers if newbies are their alt accounts:



Here's an account farm at work:

[vapourminer]

I recall compiling statistics for forum merits gained in the WO only, there already were a few “WO-legendary” members…

Up to yesterday's data dump, 150472 slightly over 12 Merits were sent within the WO-thread. That's almost 10% of the total.

Great. Thanks to the this statistic being on public display, we're gonna get a new round of accounts shitposting for merits again, I can feel it.

Sorry for that. I've corrected it.

that original 150472 merits (per day?) number.. you know of course that is now the new target to hit right? WO peeps are nothing if not competitive.

[Who is John Galt?]

I recall compiling statistics for forum merits gained in the WO only, there already were a few “WO-legendary” members…

Up to yesterday's data dump, 150472 slightly over 12 Merits were sent within the WO-thread. That's almost 10% of the total.

Great. Thanks to the this statistic being on public display, we're gonna get a new round of accounts shitposting for merits again, I can feel it.

Sorry for that. I've corrected it.

that original 150472 merits (per day?) number.. you know of course that is now the new target to hit right? WO peeps are nothing if not competitive.

With all the striving to be the first to reach the level of one and a half hundred thousand merites per day in one topic, it will be possible only with hyperinflation of merites. Of course, the presence of merit sources makes merit an inflationary asset, but not to the same extent!

[joker_josue]

I didn't shy away from the OP issue. I commented on an example presented about a post that received merit in WO.

But the post in question was written by LoyceV who doesn't post there for the sole reason of getting merits and (as far as I know) isn't an account farmer. He certainly doesn't need them to rank up and had no motivation outside of wanting to contribute to the discussion. Furthermore, he's actually contributed a lot of positive things to the forum, unlike any of the accounts that are "problematic."

But I give credit, not because of the username. I give credit for what the user has written or accomplished.

Logically, over time we begin to identify more with some users than with others, and this can influence the merits given.

But as a rule the merits should be given by what is done and not by being done by a particular user. This in my opinion, of course.

[SamReomo]

Well the discussion will continue to get longer and there won't be an end to it. I'm sure that WO thread has been a merit house for many years and it will continue to be that way no matter whatever solution we purpose. I'm sure that @OP's concerns are valid about those members who took advantage of WO merit sources and earned those merits to rank up their accounts and a reputed member like @Nutildah would never accept such kind of activity on the forum and I believe that's the sole reason behind creation of this thread. But, I must say that the whole blame should be on the ones who took advantage of the merit sources or reputed members of the WO thread for the purpose of account farming. The simple solution is to find all of the users who ranked up their accounts using WO thread only and then create a thread to report those members. I know that my solution isn't a perfect one but it can at least send the message to those account farmers that ranking up their accounts through that thread isn't acceptable and they may stop their account farming activities after getting that message.

I think it's better to purpose a solution that would be beneficial for everyone because disabling of merits won't be an acceptable solution for the members who are mostly active on that thread and it can dishearten most of the members of that thread. I know that some spammers have used that twitter meme post spamming on that thread, but we can't ignore the activity of the reputed members that have been active on that thread for many years. The one with highest posts on the forum is also part of that thread and I can say that there are many such reputed members who spend most of their time on that thread. The presence of those members make that thread useful for the forum and that's why any decision regarding that thread should be handled with care because any wrong decision may hurt the feelings of the members who have given a lot to the forum.

I don't think that creating any limits on that thread would be any helpful because limits can really discourage the members who are actively participating in that thread. Everyone has purposed their solutions and I think every member of the forum has right to share their opinion regarding an issue. I know that the main intention of @OP behind creation of this thread was to stop account farming and that's a valid concern but still disabling of merits on that thread isn't the best solution. I think we all have to find a solution to solve the issue of meriting on that particular thread but the solution should be something that should be acceptable by the reputed members of that thread as well. The purposed solutions from the members on this thread are truly awesome but I think the best solution is still going to be the one that's supported by majority and also by the members of the WO thread.

[JayJuanGee]

Actually its gotten a lot better in there since this thread started to gain some traction. No doubt they will be back at it after attention shifts away from the issue.

You are surely doing god's work daddy dildah.

[joker_josue]

The simple solution is to find all of the users who ranked up their accounts using WO thread only and then create a thread to report those members. I know that my solution isn't a perfect one but it can at least send the message to those account farmers that ranking up their accounts through that thread isn't acceptable and they may stop their account farming activities after getting that message.

I can try to take a snapshot of that information.
Maybe we'll even be surprised by the positive.

If I can get some time, maybe can do that this week. I'll try, I don't promise.

[SamReomo]

The simple solution is to find all of the users who ranked up their accounts using WO thread only and then create a thread to report those members. I know that my solution isn't a perfect one but it can at least send the message to those account farmers that ranking up their accounts through that thread isn't acceptable and they may stop their account farming activities after getting that message.

I can try to take a snapshot of that information.
Maybe we'll even be surprised by the positive.

If I can get some time, maybe can do that this week. I'll try, I don't promise.

Yes, you should definitely do that when you have free time. I think a step like that will help to reduce the numbers of account farmers on WO thread and whenever a newbie or someone that's low in rank gets most of his/her merits from WO thread then that user should be reported in that thread where such cases are reported. The reported accounts in that reporting thread should be sent to the managers of the forum that actively manage signature campaigns. The managers will then decide that whether they'll consider such participants in their campaigns or not.

I'm sure that such step will be helpful for all those members who want to have a proper solution to tackle the issue of WO thread. I personally don't have any issue with the members who are getting their merits from WO thread because I'm sure that they are also trying their best to gain those merits, but I also agree with the concern of those members who say that such kind of merit gaining will increase the number of users who will mostly post low quality stuff on the forum.

[JollyGood]

Is this suggestion going to gain any traction or will it be dismissed entirely? If not limiting the number to "1" but limiting to a number that is accepted by consensus, is it an option? Another option is to cap the number of merits a member is allowed to give in a/that particular board.

If all those (and other) options are not feasible then there is another option: to do nothing and allow the status quo to continue in the Wall Observer thread.

How about every post within WO being capped at a max of 1 per sMerit giver? 

[nutildah]

Is this suggestion going to gain any traction or will it be dismissed entirely? If not limiting the number to "1" but limiting to a number that is accepted by consensus, is it an option?

That won't help IMO... Some of them are perfectly happy to write 10 posts there before getting a single merit. They are significantly motivated to spam by the prospects of receiving even just one merit. Thankfully they seem to have made a "group decision" to stop it for the time being... for the most part. We'll see how long it lasts for.

[dragonvslinux]

Sometimes it seems like some WO posters don't have much time for merit distribution, as merit sources, and therefore use WO in order to re-distribute them to lower-merited users*, which I don't think is a bad thing. At least that's the impression that I get occasionally. For others the rest of the forum is simply too trashy to spend much time in, so much better off sticking to WO if you want some decent content at least.

*Ie meriting the user for their overall contribution to the forum as opposed to a specific post