How can Bitcointalk evolve to adapt to a post 2023 (ChatGPT, etc) internet?

[z00mer]

It is pretty great that we can participate on such an old and legenedary forum.    Imagine the amount of BTC it has helped to exchange - by now probably more than even localbitcoins.com even did.

It also goes to show you that forums are timeless (maybe, more on that below) and that despite all of the 'social media revolution' they are still a great way to get to quality content and have engaging discussions.

And even as Google et all phase out forum threads as part of their search engine result (part of a larger problem of big tech intentionally enshitifying/sabbatoging/censoring /monopolizing the information landscape)  at least we can still do site:bitcointalk.org "my query" to lookup stuff or even - yes - use the search engine here.   It's pretty decent but we probably should admit to some extent the UI here is a tad cluttered if one was to start getting nit picky.  

Yet I'm not trying to nit pick here.  I want to address a deeper issue.   And this is the issue of bots and real people who just use ChatGPT to create content on here.  Perhaps to spam their avatar/banners or to harvest cred for better conversion in the forum's marketplace.

Could not help but notice a friendly competitor site that is gaining some popularity which uses Lightning network to allow its users to 'zap' one another aka v4v micropayments.  Perhaps now, 2023 being a pivotal year in the advances of AI, is time to look at the next major version of Bitcointalk and what kind of features we would need to maintain & encourage healthy organic discussion here long-term ie- 'post mainstream AI'.

Ideas are welcome; feel free to share your thoughts and or perhaps the mods/admin can chime in as to any progress or plans on said next version.

And on that regard, one more idea to consider - of course we need to protect anonymity but a way to currate users or lists of users and share them with one another (perhaps in the form of whitelists/banlists) migth be another way to mitigate the issue of grifters and bots.    This might also imply some fundamental UI updates to make such a feature more seamless with the general UX of the site.

edit: and yes btw I'm a bit of a longterm lurker only most recently awakened and that is primarily the inspiration for this post; I'd  like to begin particpating here more often but find myself a tad skeptical of the sheer mass of users and the obvious type this legendary site attracts.

[1715061324]

1715061324

[BlackBoss_]

Imagine the amount of BTC it has helped to exchange - by now probably more than even localbitcoins.com even did.

Bitcointalk is a forum, not an exchange. It has a child board for exchange but basically, it is not an exchange.
Is Chat GPT a risk for Bitcointalk?

No, it isn't. It's my opinion on it.

Chat GPT relies on available big data to cook their answers and it even uses lot of information from legendary forum Bitcointalk to compose its answers. Chat GPT actually depends on Bitcointalk for many answers.

If you see AI-created posts in bitcointalk, report those posts in AI Spam Report Reference Thread

[z00mer]

Bitcointalk is a forum, not an exchange. It has a child board for exchange but basically, it is not an exchange.

True that, but the amount of new friends made and deals over PMs and of course the exchange/market here - the long history of it all - that is where I'm guestimating could translate into total value BTC > more than Localbitcoin did; basically immeasurable but fun to think about.   I would be curious if there is a thread somewhere on here with a verifiable 'record breaker' verifiable coins exchanged from back in the day.  

Good points on ChatGPT's data source.   Will definitely report AI spam though its getting increasingly difficult to spot particularly when real users shake it up by posting hybrid human/bot content.  

[The Sceptical Chymist]

It also goes to show you that forums are timeless (maybe, more on that below) and that despite all of the 'social media revolution' they are still a great way to get to quality content and have engaging discussions.

The only way to tell if something is truly, truly timeless is to let a very long period of time pass and then see if that something has anything close to the relevance or popularity it did over that length of time.  I'm not so certain discussion forums have had enough time pass to tell, and I'd wager that they're not going to be a thing 10+ years from now.  Sure, bitcointalk is raging but we all know why that is--signature campaigns.  A lot of other discussion forums, crypto or not, are dead or dying.

And even as Google et all phase out forum threads as part of their search engine result (part of a larger problem of big tech intentionally enshitifying/sabbatoging/censoring /monopolizing the information landscape)  at least we can still do site:bitcointalk.org "my query" to lookup stuff or even - yes - use the search engine here.   It's pretty decent but we probably should admit to some extent the UI here is a tad cluttered if one was to start getting nit picky.  

Oh man, you got that bolded part on the nose.  I'm not sure how many of you remember how search engines and the internet in general used to be circa 1996-2000 or so, but I do.  Back then if you searched for something, you could end up with hours of interesting reading on some obscure website somebody owned.  Now it's just like you said: big tech has shit all over the internet.  It was inevitable, I guess, when there's money to be made.

On a related note, that's why all of these young and popular Youtubers have very similar vibes, almost like they're carnival barkers.  All the video content that draws eyeballs is being pushed and all the little video creators have no chance of having anyone see what they're making.

As to the problem at hand with AI and our beloved forum....I'm going to light some candles and pray to the gods of fire that we remain unscorched.  That's all I can think of to do.

[Don Pedro Dinero]

I don't think this forum is going to adapt much, just as it hasn't changed much in the last 10 years. If it had changed much it would be a kind of TikTok instead of staying the same. It is what it is and I believe it will remain much the same, for many years to come or until it disappears.

The only way to tell if something is truly, truly timeless is to let a very long period of time pass and then see if that something has anything close to the relevance or popularity it did over that length of time.  I'm not so certain discussion forums have had enough time pass to tell, and I'd wager that they're not going to be a thing 10+ years from now.  Sure, bitcointalk is raging but we all know why that is--signature campaigns.  A lot of other discussion forums, crypto or not, are dead or dying.

At first I wouldn't bet much on a big traffic in 10 years but you could have asked me 6 years ago when I registered and I would have told you the same thing, and what you say about the forums I don't see it generalised either, at least not the Spanish speaking ones. This one, for example, was created in 2003, hasn't seen a drop in traffic and has a lot of young people.

forocoches.com

[Despairo]

Could not help but notice a friendly competitor site that is gaining some popularity which uses Lightning network to allow its users to 'zap' one another aka v4v micropayments.

It was proposed since 2016 and until now the adoption of lightning network is relatively small, not many people are use it. I'm not saying lightning network is a failed project, but after 7 years there's no big impact I see until now. If lightning network is widely adopted as big as Bitcoin, no one will complain about high fee in Bitcoin network.

Perhaps now, 2023 being a pivotal year in the advances of AI, is time to look at the next major version of Bitcointalk and what kind of features we would need to maintain & encourage healthy organic discussion here long-term ie- 'post mainstream AI'.

Simple, the moderator need to ban every user that use AI to create post, they can take look in this thread AI Spam Report Reference Thread , I don't care whether it's temporary ban or permanent ban, but they must get a punishment.

[Majestic-milf]

 Why do we want it to adapt to that point anyway? That would just make things look fake. In the forum, there are rules against the use of AI and suddenly changing the rules just to make it at par with other sites will defeat it's purpose of trying to keep it free of such. It's as if one is trying to monetize the forum, hence they'd need to encourage anything that will rake in profit, right?
Bitcointalk is not some social platform like Facebook or X(Twitter) that needs to change or conform to a certain style to meet up market demands or beat competition; it's just a place where individuals meet up to share ideas. Believe me, I don't think Theymos will be in a rush to consider your suggestion.

[NotATether]

Could not help but notice a friendly competitor site that is gaining some popularity which uses Lightning network to allow its users to 'zap' one another aka v4v micropayments.

It was proposed since 2016 and until now the adoption of lightning network is relatively small, not many people are use it. I'm not saying lightning network is a failed project, but after 7 years there's no big impact I see until now. If lightning network is widely adopted as big as Bitcoin, no one will complain about high fee in Bitcoin network.

That's because the Lightning Network lacks infrastructure for people to use. It's got some node software, but few wallets that support it. Also for a long time, exchanges were not supporting Lightning network, so people who wanted to buy bitcoins were not incentivized to use a Lightning wallet, but a regular wallet.

[Dunamisx]

Yet I'm not trying to nit pick here.  I want to address a deeper issue.   And this is the issue of bots and real people who just use ChatGPT to create content on here.  Perhaps to spam their avatar/banners or to harvest cred for better conversion in the forum's marketplace.

The forum law does not go against the use of ChatGPT, but if you're found using it to publish your post here, you may be left with a neutral review on your profile, and his is to tell and inform possible people that may be coming in contact with you to know the source of how you generate your post, most employers and organizations want to know and hear our personal experience and feel in whatever we are discussing here and not to make use of bot in making post which means we are not the writer and we are not being genuine about the content of what we are writing.

[BlackBoss_]

True that, but the amount of new friends made and deals over PMs and of course the exchange/market here - the long history of it all - that is where I'm guestimating could translate into total value BTC > more than Localbitcoin did; basically immeasurable but fun to think about.   I would be curious if there is a thread somewhere on here with a verifiable 'record breaker' verifiable coins exchanged from back in the day. 

You can not assume it because surely Bitcointalk is a very first place to exchange bitcoins. From this forum, we have Bitcoin pizza day with a first successful exchange of bitcoin for pizzas and some early trades. It's where first Bitcoin faucets announced, first bitcoin exchange announcement.

But with time, with appearances of centralized exchanges and decentralized exchanges, this forum is no longer a most favorite place to exchange bitcoin. Total bitcoins exchanged on centralized exchanges and decentralized exchanges must be bigger than what has ever been traded on bitcointalk.

Pizza for bitcoins?
Get 5 free bitcoins from freebitcoins.appspot.com
New exchange (Bitcoin Market)

[Lida93]

Perhaps now, 2023 being a pivotal year in the advances of AI, is time to look at the next major version of Bitcointalk and what kind of features we would need to maintain & encourage healthy organic discussion here long-term ie- 'post mainstream AI'.

As highlighted AI can't be a good tool to use in maintaining of healthy organic discussions in the forum, if we're to assess the forgoing part of the years throughout the existence of the forum discussions has been topnotch with originality in information and resource shared, and with use of AI now it will only deny forum users that originality because people would not be contributing based on personal experience but on AI bot.
The discussion of real life issues is what differentiate the forum from all other social media platforms and to maintain that uniqueness AI posts ultimately has to be discouraged.

[Saisher]

Yet I'm not trying to nit pick here.  I want to address a deeper issue.   And this is the issue of bots and real people who just use ChatGPT to create content on here.  Perhaps to spam their avatar/banners or to harvest cred for better conversion in the forum's marketplace.
.... Perhaps now, 2023 being a pivotal year in the advances of AI, is time to look at the next major version of Bitcointalk and what kind of features we would need to maintain & encourage healthy organic discussion here long-term ie- 'post mainstream AI'.

It's very challenging for UGC or user-generated content platform to combat these AI's because of the attractiveness of using it by some irresponsible members but the forum have responsible members who report and combat these AI'S generated content without the use of modification software to combat these AI generated content and I think the community is winning.

[Dr.Bitcoin_Strange]

Yet I'm not trying to nit pick here.  I want to address a deeper issue.   And this is the issue of bots and real people who just use ChatGPT to create content on here.  Perhaps to spam their avatar/banners or to harvest cred for better conversion in the forum's marketplace.

About some months ago, there were really so many members who were using the ChartGPT to create some content on this forum and even using it to reply to topics, but after it got discovered, there was a thread created for such users to be reported, and with how seriously the issue was being handled then, I think quite a lot of people got discouraged because it's really assumed that someone using AI to compose contents on this forum cannot make any serious or organic contribution. So, the issue has also been taken care of because, despite the fact that it is a bit quiet now, that does not mean that there's no one looking out for those users who were using ChartGPT.

[mk4]

It's honestly too early for ChatGPT to be a 'risk' for Bitcointalk. Sure, it affects Bitcointalk negatively in a way because it's very annoying, but it's not like Bitcointalk is going to be ran by ChatGPT or something. If someone uses ChatGPT to make a topic or post a reply on Bitcointalk, it's really very very obvious lol. They think they're so slick because of them using ChatGPT but there is a very clear distinction between a ChatGPT-generated post and a casual internet person.

[Zoomic]

It's honestly too early for ChatGPT to be a 'risk' for Bitcointalk. Sure, it affects Bitcointalk negatively in a way because it's very annoying, but it's not like Bitcointalk is going to be ran by ChatGPT or something. If someone uses ChatGPT to make a topic or post a reply on Bitcointalk, it's really very very obvious lol. They think they're so slick because of them using ChatGPT but there is a very clear distinction between a ChatGPT-generated post and a casual internet person.

Will there actually be a time that you will login the forum and understand that the whole forum is taken over by bots chatting and discussing with one another. No emotions and no considerations. It doesn’t matter if the conversations are connected or not, but then there is steady activity going on in the forum. If it gets to this stage what then will happen? Because the purpose of this forum would automatically be defeated.

[DYING_S0UL]

It's honestly too early for ChatGPT to be a 'risk' for Bitcointalk. Sure, it affects Bitcointalk negatively in a way because it's very annoying, but it's not like Bitcointalk is going to be ran by ChatGPT or something. If someone uses ChatGPT to make a topic or post a reply on Bitcointalk, it's really very very obvious lol. They think they're so slick because of them using ChatGPT but there is a very clear distinction between a ChatGPT-generated post and a casual internet person.

I think there is a long road for ChatGPT to be a risk for Bitcointalk. Even though it can be expert in generating content. It's still lacks human creativity. It only says what it's trained to say. As a newbie we may not be able to separate which is Ai made & which is Man made. But an old active member will instantly detect that it has been made using AI. I think no matter how much natural they try to make ChatGPT it will always have that artificial touch. As long as there is a human touch there will always be a chance to have human error. Take me for example, I think I made several grammar mistake in this reply. But ChatGPT won't. Maybe in the long long future, but there is no way ChatGPT can replace us now.

[nutildah]

This forum isn't meant to adapt or evolve -- its a digital museum that serves the primary purpose of preserving satoshi's posts (along with hal's and a number of other early contributors). I for one hope it never changes in design... It would be odd to read satoshi's posts in any other format than the one that was around while he was writing them.

If anything, it would be great to somehow make reading posts more friendly on mobile devices... its a bit cumbersome and that assuredly dissuades some visitors and potential participants, seeing as how the majority of web traffic is now mobile-based.

[mk4]

Will there actually be a time that you will login the forum and understand that the whole forum is taken over by bots chatting and discussing with one another. No emotions and no considerations. It doesn’t matter if the conversations are connected or not, but then there is steady activity going on in the forum. If it gets to this stage what then will happen? Because the purpose of this forum would automatically be defeated.

It's like asking what will happen to Facebook/Twitter if it was just taken over by bots. Why would businesses/companies invest in ads in these platforms if it was all bots?

I think there is a long road for ChatGPT to be a risk for Bitcointalk. Even though it can be expert in generating content. It's still lacks human creativity. It only says what it's trained to say. As a newbie we may not be able to separate which is Ai made & which is Man made. But an old active member will instantly detect that it has been made using AI. I think no matter how much natural they try to make ChatGPT it will always have that artificial touch. As long as there is a human touch there will always be a chance to have human error. Take me for example, I think I made several grammar mistake in this reply. But ChatGPT won't. Maybe in the long long future, but there is no way ChatGPT can replace us now.

Pretty much. ChatGPT being able to blend in to a community such as Bitcointalk is going to take a good amount of time. Or at least I hope, as we might be underestimating how quick ChatGPT can 'learn'.