On Apple's $200 billion dump and US shooting itself in the foot

[avikz]

https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-200-billion-drop-sign-post-us-tech-future-near-2023-9

The biggest mistake any decision makers in any country can make these days is not realizing the World Order has already changed and to fail to adapt to the New World Order as quickly as possible.

The most obvious example in United States that is still clinging to the Old World Order, desperately trying to remain the solo hegemony in today's multi-polar world.
Of course this change didn't happen overnight, the World Order has been transitioning for many years while many have been pushing US over the edge and down to the pit. But in my opinion the last nails in that coffin were put there by the US regime itself and out of pure stupidity, specially in the previous two administrations.

For example take the trade war with China that started on January 2018. Before that the Chinese companies didn't feel threatened enough to ever bother to start R&D of high tech stuff since they could freely import them from US manufacturers. So China remained dependent on United States.
But as the US regime kept "sanctioning" China, China started going domestic. Now for example the Chinese smart phone companies are manufacturing microchips (that they used to import) domestically.

Here is the problem, this move not only creates a serious and super cheap competition in global markets against American products that can easily replace them and devastate those companies, but also it now gives China the capability to strike back which brings us to the recent "sanctions" China placed on US, restricting usage of iPhones in China. The result? Apple got dumped $200 billion in a blinking of a eye.
It doesn't stop there, we have already seen over the past year+ the worsening US recession is also hurting the Silicon Valley and the tech sector as its first and biggest victim with banks that keep on collapsing.

This signals the start of a new era where tech giants are no longer going to be American. Meanwhile tech is not the only field and China is not the only country US keeps sanctioning...

It's a great sight to see that the world order is changing! It is indeed a multi-polar world today as it should have always been. But unfortunately, the fear of gunpowder creeped up the world since a long time. It's good that it is changing and the power is shifting back to the new world order. US has been the largest warmonger in the history of modern world and has already devastated multiple countries in Asia and Middle East. But the problem here is that Chinese are getting stronger! They are not a good number one!

China is an expansionist nation and a potential trouble maker. My forecast is - the next world war will be fought in Asia. China is just an inch away to conquer Taiwan and US will not allow that to happen. RU, India, Middle East, Japan, Australia will get directly involved into this new world war and whoever remains, will become the new world order. US needs to stop this sanction game right away! Because of their sanctions, EU people is facing energy crisis. 

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[Darker45]

I'm not a fan of both countries, although I tend to hate China more. But I think I'm objective enough to see that the US has indeed been shooting itself in the foot for the past years, even decades. And in so many ways.

People tend to assume, for example, that cheap labor is the only factor that drives companies like Apple away from the US and into China and neighboring countries. It's certainly not.

Both China and the US are bullies not just against other countries but also against their very own people. It's certainly less severe in the US, but that it's done against a people for whom liberty is paramount, it has much more tremendous effects.

Anyway, Apple is more Chinese than American now, so...

[icalical]

You have shared great news, but I doubt if it is new.

It is a couple of days old but it is new and I wouldn't call it "great news", it's just one of the changes in the current chaotic world. Not to mention that China is not that different from US.

Yep, China is definitely not so different in the US, I only ever heard of what US done to countries that need to be 'freed' and shared some 'democracy' I never witness it because it never happened to my country. But for China, I actually witness how bad they are, their 'investment' money bring chaos in my country, they don't want local labor, China bring their own labor, lower class doesn't actually get any benefit of their investment, and even worse their latest investment, are about to create a civil war and local rebellion, they forced people to move out of their own land.

[pooya87]

Both China and the US are bullies not just against other countries but also against their very own people. It's certainly less severe in the US, but that it's done against a people for whom liberty is paramount, it has much more tremendous effects.

US and China are in many ways two faces of the same coin. The circumstances were different so they went on different paths of different types of dictatorship. Otherwise under same circumstances they would do exactly the same thing!

For example these days both regimes are preventing capital from exiting their country by banning any company that wishes to do so or if they insist the government bankrupts the hell out of them. China is doing it to its investment companies like those involved in real estate, US is doing it to a lot of companies including investment firms like BlackRock.
The difference is that China never claimed to be a "liberal economy or country" but US did

A couple of decades ago US economy was big and strong so they introduced strong laws against Child labor.
A couple of decades ago Chinese economy was tiny and weak so they introduced sweatshops with child (cheap) workers.
Today US economy is weakening and over the past couple of years the child labor laws in US are getting "looser" and American sweatshop are the expected reality as the violations are already up 300% according to the U.S. Department of Labor and that's the illegal cases, they are basically legalizing a lot of it so that they can get more minors (cheap labor) into their sweatshops and keep production alive for a little longer!

[Darker45]

Both China and the US are bullies not just against other countries but also against their very own people. It's certainly less severe in the US, but that it's done against a people for whom liberty is paramount, it has much more tremendous effects.

US and China are in many ways two faces of the same coin. The circumstances were different so they went on different paths of different types of dictatorship. Otherwise under same circumstances they would do exactly the same thing!

For example these days both regimes are preventing capital from exiting their country by banning any company that wishes to do so or if they insist the government bankrupts the hell out of them. China is doing it to its investment companies like those involved in real estate, US is doing it to a lot of companies including investment firms like BlackRock.
The difference is that China never claimed to be a "liberal economy or country" but US did

A couple of decades ago US economy was big and strong so they introduced strong laws against Child labor.
A couple of decades ago Chinese economy was tiny and weak so they introduced sweatshops with child (cheap) workers.
Today US economy is weakening and over the past couple of years the child labor laws in US are getting "looser" and American sweatshop are the expected reality as the violations are already up 300% according to the U.S. Department of Labor and that's the illegal cases, they are basically legalizing a lot of it so that they can get more minors (cheap labor) into their sweatshops and keep production alive for a little longer!

Well, it's obvious that China's grip on its companies is a world much tighter than the US'. I don't think the exodus of American brands would ever happen in China. Although there may be a somehow similar situation in the red country right now, this largely involves foreign companies. As to homegrown Chinese companies, I don't think its equally easy for them to leave the country as with homegrown US companies leaving the US. In the US, the capitalists are the ones holding the government at gunpoint. In China, it's the other way around. There's a huge difference as to where power actually resides.

When the US' tiger economy was in its infancy, child labor was rampant. Later on, standards improved as American people began living in abundance. China's story is more or less similar, although it started a bit later.

[arabspaceship123]

China's holding financial leverage so they're able to retaliate. Look at the MENA region if they fell under one framework for trade they'd be able to challenge any hegemony. The old world order won't continue much longer because China isn't going to accept it. BRICS expanded to more countries so it's going in directions away from United States.

https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-200-billion-drop-sign-post-us-tech-future-near-2023-9

The biggest mistake any decision makers in any country can make these days is not realizing the World Order has already changed and to fail to adapt to the New World Order as quickly as possible.

The most obvious example in United States that is still clinging to the Old World Order, desperately trying to remain the solo hegemony in today's multi-polar world.
Of course this change didn't happen overnight, the World Order has been transitioning for many years while many have been pushing US over the edge and down to the pit. But in my opinion the last nails in that coffin were put there by the US regime itself and out of pure stupidity, specially in the previous two administrations.

[DrBeer]

Its not capitalism USA practices "favored son" to the business it likes and fuck you to the ones it does not like.

You have some very depressing worldview
Have you tried to look at what is happening from a different perspective ? Believe me - there are many positive things in the western world that are not available in those countries where "kindness, welfare, equality".... The truth is only on radio and TV
For example, North Korea is a perfect example of a developed society, and no capitalism and "fucking everyone with the help of your favorite son"
Or did I misunderstand your line and thought ?

[Lida93]

Both China and the US are bullies not just against other countries but also against their very own people. It's certainly less severe in the US, but that it's done against a people for whom liberty is paramount, it has much more tremendous effects.

US and China are in many ways two faces of the same coin. The circumstances were different so they went on different paths of different types of dictatorship. Otherwise under same circumstances they would do exactly the same thing!

For example these days both regimes are preventing capital from exiting their country by banning any company that wishes to do so or if they insist the government bankrupts the hell out of them. China is doing it to its investment companies like those involved in real estate, US is doing it to a lot of companies including investment firms like BlackRock.
The difference is that China never claimed to be a "liberal economy or country" but US did .

When two friends turn enemies the centre can no more hold as before.

In the real sense of liberalism there's no country if the world that's practicing it to the letter. I caption it as a camouflage that permeate the current age and nothing more.

It is said that when two elephants fights it is the grass that suffers but in this fight the grass have been cleared and it's the two elephants that are feeling every bit and pieces of their fight and that's what makes the fight more captivating to spectators watching from afar.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

This signals the start of a new era where tech giants are no longer going to be American. Meanwhile tech is not the only field and China is not the only country US keeps sanctioning...

When I read stuff about Tencent and the like, I don't doubt that statement at all.  On the other hand, it seems like a lot of the tech innovations that have changed our lives have originated in the US--I've no idea whether that's going to continue or not, but I wouldn't count the US out just yet.

As far as China goes, I've got my doubts that a communist country is going to become a tech giant on their own.  They're very good at using everything that other countries have invented (not to mention their culture of counterfeiting shit), but I don't think they're going to make any major developments in tech all by themselves.  But hey, I've been very wrong before, more times than I can count so we'll see.  What I'm more worried about is how all of these countries with enormous power and resources are going to get along in the coming decades.

[dothebeats]

This signals the start of a new era where tech giants are no longer going to be American. Meanwhile tech is not the only field and China is not the only country US keeps sanctioning...

When I read stuff about Tencent and the like, I don't doubt that statement at all.  On the other hand, it seems like a lot of the tech innovations that have changed our lives have originated in the US--I've no idea whether that's going to continue or not, but I wouldn't count the US out just yet.

As far as China goes, I've got my doubts that a communist country is going to become a tech giant on their own.  They're very good at using everything that other countries have invented (not to mention their culture of counterfeiting shit), but I don't think they're going to make any major developments in tech all by themselves.  But hey, I've been very wrong before, more times than I can count so we'll see.  What I'm more worried about is how all of these countries with enormous power and resources are going to get along in the coming decades.

I did some quick surfing on the net and found a list from Global Finance regarding the most tech-advanced countries in the world as of 2023. Based on their list South Korea ranks one (if you wanna know how they did the ranking you can check the list) while the US closely follows on rank two. Although East-Asian countries are well represented in the top 20 (with Taiwan, Japan, and Singapore) China falls on rank 38. The article explained that even though China invests a lot in research and tech production, the country fails to utilize its citizens for greater technological advancement, unlike its economic peers. With this, I would like to agree with you, although I am sure some will argue that this is not enough foundation to state that China will not make it as big as the US in terms of technology as China has been providing a lot of production parts towards big tech companies like Apple. I guess we'll just need a more conclusive article if we are going to actually make a comparison with that. Nevertheless, for now, I wouldn't go as far as saying that China will be as big as the US, perhaps they will continue to grow and develop in tech but not as quickly and as massive as the US as of now.

Link to the article/list: https://www.gfmag.com/global-data/non-economic-data/best-tech-countries

[Kakmakr]

Well, take for instance the "ASIC" chip development and manufacturing in Crypto currency mining.... Silicon Valley will never be able to catch up to the Asian manufacturing capabilities and the technology that they have patented. 

The US Government (NASA) are not the power house it used to be and countries like India are now landing spacecraft on the Moon. The most technologically advanced countries are now coming from South Korea and Taiwan and the most sophisticated hackers are coming from North Korea and Russia. 

[DrBeer]

This signals the start of a new era where tech giants are no longer going to be American. Meanwhile tech is not the only field and China is not the only country US keeps sanctioning...

When I read stuff about Tencent and the like, I don't doubt that statement at all.  On the other hand, it seems like a lot of the tech innovations that have changed our lives have originated in the US--I've no idea whether that's going to continue or not, but I wouldn't count the US out just yet.

As far as China goes, I've got my doubts that a communist country is going to become a tech giant on their own.  They're very good at using everything that other countries have invented (not to mention their culture of counterfeiting shit), but I don't think they're going to make any major developments in tech all by themselves.  But hey, I've been very wrong before, more times than I can count so we'll see.  What I'm more worried about is how all of these countries with enormous power and resources are going to get along in the coming decades.

There is one nuance that explains why totalitarian and semi-totalitarian regimes have always been and will always be more backward, while free countries are more technologically advanced.

The free developed world gave birth to free economy, free market, and effective competition. This means that companies are willing, able and eager to provide consumers with new competitive solutions. And this means, first of all, technology. In totalitarian and close to totalitarian economies, what the economy can do is to generate something for the military-industrial complex and to provide for the elites.
The best example is the USSR. Like "the best missiles, tanks, ...." and so on. But people did not have normal clothes, primitive household appliances, everything was in short supply, produced minimally and with disgusting quality....  In addition, China is also coming with a new "party course".  It was the arrival of developed capitalism and Western technology in China that China turned from a backward agrarian country, with low-quality production, into a major high-tech economy. But Xi JinPing decided that China does not need progress and development, it needs a rigid regime, curtailment of freedoms, including economic freedoms....

[Fiatless]

I'm not a fan of both countries, although I tend to hate China more. But I think I'm objective enough to see that the US has indeed been shooting itself in the foot for the past years, even decades. And in so many ways.

People tend to assume, for example, that cheap labor is the only factor that drives companies like Apple away from the US and into China and neighboring countries. It's certainly not.

Both China and the US are bullies not just against other countries but also against their very own people. It's certainly less severe in the US, but that it's done against a people for whom liberty is paramount, it has much more tremendous effects.

Anyway, Apple is more Chinese than American now, so...

People from developing countries seem to be benefitting from this trade war between China and the US. This war has led to the transfer of technology to other countries. Thailand, Vietnam, India, and Cambodia are now the major producers of some of the semiconductors used in the US as they stop relying on Taiwan and China. Some US companies in China moved their industries to China's neighbors which has made these nations advance in technology and increase in employment and revenue.

China is now seeking other markets after the crackdown on its investment in Europe and the US. After the sanction and legal restrictions placed on Huawei in the West, even countries like Lithuania encouraged their citizens to drop Huawei smartphones,  the Chinese company has shifted its market to Africa and the Middle East. Almost 70% of 4G networks across the African continent are handled by Huawei. Most of these developing nations need these important infrastructures and the trade war between these two world powers has made them an important market.

[Synchronice]

Here is the problem, this move not only creates a serious and super cheap competition in global markets against American products that can easily replace them and devastate those companies

What sells iPhone to your mind? What's its strong point? Price? Quality? I bet, it's none of these. iPhone is sold because it has Apple logo and its name is iPhone. If you own an iPhone, society thinks that you are a cool person. Almost absolutely every girl wants or owns iPhone. Why? Especially when they only use it for Facebook, Instagram and TikTok? The only option they use of this smartphone is Camera and call/messaging. They buy it because their friends think its cool and you are cool if you have latest iPhone in your hand, that's all, that's what sells iPhone. 99% of iPhone users don't need this smartphone and can easily live with $300 smartphone.
So, I don't expect this move to decrease iPhone sales in future.

Btw I hope top EU countries will find interest in new technologies and not focus solely on cars.

I blame rich mother fuckers all over the wolrd.

This shit has gone on for thousands of years and will continue on.

The who has a song with these lyrics in it

“meet the new boss same as the old boss…”

No, what about this Times reign, not kings ? This is a quote that one of my ausländer (He was calling himself so) colleague told me once when we were talking about Russia-Ukraine war.

all the leaders are mostly assholes that wanted power and fought to be a boss.

so we need to keep this in mind.

There is a difference between leaders. Russia can't take care of its own country, how is it going to take care of others? But it wants to be a superpower, that's funny. Russia is the biggest country in the world but outside of Moscow and Saints Peterburg, there is absolutely no life in Russia. Check their buildings, their hospitals outside of those two cities and then compare it to random small German village for example, you'll see a huge difference.

[retreat]

"Being number one is sometimes not good, because without realizing it, number two will be able to overtake you at any time." These words are very suitable to represent the current state of America. They are very wrong if they still think that they alone can become leaders and that no country can overtake them. Economic war, technological restrictions, even using alliances, all the efforts made by America cannot stop China and other countries from continuing to develop. Even when they use their alliances such as "G7" and "NATO" they still cannot stop the development of other large countries. And that could even be a trigger for opposing countries to develop their own technology which could be much more developed than that displayed by America.
America must realize that now is no longer their time. Other countries are aware that what America is doing in the international world must end immediately and it is time to develop their economy, technology and military, and America must accept that situation.

[arabspaceship123]

Where's American influence going to be if all MENA region united? Countries are developing their economy, tech, military so they'll break way from American or European influence but it's going to take longer time. The old world order isn't finished it's in process of finishing.

America must realize that now is no longer their time. Other countries are aware that what America is doing in the international world must end immediately and it is time to develop their economy, technology and military, and America must accept that situation.

[NotATether]

Here is the problem, this move not only creates a serious and super cheap competition in global markets against American products that can easily replace them and devastate those companies, but also it now gives China the capability to strike back which brings us to the recent "sanctions" China placed on US, restricting usage of iPhones in China. The result? Apple got dumped $200 billion in a blinking of a eye.

iPhones are not restricted from use in China, only government workers and officials are prohibited from using them (while they are at work). You must have read one of the misleading headlines that said China has banned iPhones. If that were true then Apple will lose most of their stock price because most of their manufacturing base is still in China.

[pooya87]

but I wouldn't count the US out just yet.

Maybe but the certain thing is that US will become a normal country.

What I'm more worried about is how all of these countries with enormous power and resources are going to get along in the coming decades.

Well many of these countries with enormous power and resources have existed for thousands of years before United States was even invented. For them it would be like going back to factory settings...

As far as China goes, I've got my doubts that a communist country is going to become a tech giant on their own.  They're very good at using everything that other countries have invented (not to mention their culture of counterfeiting shit), but I don't think they're going to make any major developments in tech all by themselves.

I'm not predicting anything but same thing was said about a lot of other industries and countries. Like the Automotive Industry. It was once dominated by United States alone like in the 50's. Everywhere in the world the names like Ford, Cadillac, Chevrolet, etc. were heard. Today those are mostly a thing of the past as they are replaced by Toyota, Nissan, Mazda (Japanese), BMW, Audi (German), and of course the Chinese cars that are flooding US itself some like Buick under disguise of familiar names.

For example the Japanese automotive industry that is huge today, was once so tiny they would only produce a hundred or so cars and they were all "counterfeit". In early 50's with no infrastructure and no technology Japanese were basically copying American cars and were building cheap knockoffs.

In other words "counterfeiting" is not a culture, sometimes it is a step in the big journey.

They buy it because their friends think its cool and you are cool if you have latest iPhone in your hand,
So, I don't expect this move to decrease iPhone sales in future.

These are good points and I agree, Apple is not going to see any catastrophic decrease of sales in near future but as I said above, Caddies were once "cool" too.

Here is the problem, this move not only creates a serious and super cheap competition in global markets against American products that can easily replace them and devastate those companies, but also it now gives China the capability to strike back which brings us to the recent "sanctions" China placed on US, restricting usage of iPhones in China. The result? Apple got dumped $200 billion in a blinking of a eye.

iPhones are not restricted from use in China, only government workers and officials are prohibited from using them (while they are at work). You must have read one of the misleading headlines that said China has banned iPhones. If that were true then Apple will lose most of their stock price because most of their manufacturing base is still in China.

I never claimed it was a country-wide ban, I said "restricted the usage" without being specific because the degree of the restriction is not important in the points I'm raising here.
The argument here is the fact that for the first time in the past 30ish years where US used to be the solo world power, China has been placing such "sanctions" on US economy and they have been showing themselves up in US economy. This would have been unthinkable 5 years ago.

Otherwise a country-wide ban in China would easily wipe out between $0.5 to $1 trillion from Apple and that's only if the crash stops without Chinese market.

[tabas]

I remember when Trump tried to ban TikTok as that's a strikeback then against China. It's always these two that have their own strikebacks hitting each other's economy. While there have been pulling out for the manufacturers from US companies that are being sourced out to China because of cheaper labor. China sees that labor much better to be invested into their own products and workforce that shall contribute more to them for the trade that they export abroad to compete products that have always been from the US. It is true that it's not just tech that China isn't trying to compete but there are such a lot of other industries they're trying to get on like in cars, construction, etc.

[Twentyonepaylots]

I remember when Trump tried to ban TikTok as that's a strikeback then against China.

I can still remember how funny the trial/questioning to the CEO of tiktok from the senators of USA, it seems that lack of knowledge from something is chaotic when you have the power to just shut it down forever. Tiktok complied to all they need to operate in most of countries and then USA started questioning about their national security. National security over an application that lets you take a photo of yourself with a filter and record yourself dancing. just wow.

It's always these two that have their own strikebacks hitting each other's economy. While there have been pulling out for the manufacturers from US companies that are being sourced out to China because of cheaper labor. China sees that labor much better to be invested into their own products and workforce that shall contribute more to them for the trade that they export abroad to compete products that have always been from the US. It is true that it's not just tech that China isn't trying to compete but there are such a lot of other industries they're trying to get on like in cars, construction, etc.

China isn't that weak to fight back against USA. I can sense that America is ready for something, like a warfare, so they just starting any conflict with countries. It is a great restart for their economy to avoid crawling against well performing country like China.