high taxes for two more years

[coinfunda]

Recently, in a report published by [BS] it is mentioned that crypto regime will not be going to change in next 2 years. That clearly means, we have to pay 30% tax on each individual crypto gainand and never forget to pay 1% tds in case of p2p transaction and it is applicable for crypto to crypto transaction as well.
What can be the best strategy to minimize the tax?

[TheUltraElite]

If crypto is your main source of income and you are regularly converting that to fiat for daily spending, then you are out of options you have to suck up the tax and continue like this until some miracle happens.

Alternatives are:
1. Daily spending from a different fiat source - your salary maybe? and keep the bitcoins stashed for that future miracle.
2. Buy giftcards to spend on store, rest of the spending from fiat. Though I have never compared how much we are paying for the giftcards and their equivalence to the fiat in rupee.

I am optimistic after the last G20 Summit, for the younger generation, keeping patience while the government form their steps will yield good results in future in my opinion.

[elevates]

The worst thing about an Indian in crypto is the 30,%tax on earnings. The amount of revenue the government of India might have gained would be staggering. When they would come out with the data we would be amazed for sure. Considering the government came up with tax structure before a regulation shows how much the government anticipated the returns. As of now we are still in a state where crypto is not banned. Let be practical the government that believes crypto trading similar to gambling would keep the same tax structure. I doubt the government would decide about the tax after two years.

[avikz]

Recently, in a report published by [BS] it is mentioned that crypto regime will not be going to change in next 2 years. That clearly means, we have to pay 30% tax on each individual crypto gainand and never forget to pay 1% tds in case of p2p transaction and it is applicable for crypto to crypto transaction as well.
What can be the best strategy to minimize the tax?

Not sure how Business Standard has predicted that the crypto tax is not going to change for next 2 years. But there's literally no way to minimise crypto tax in you are dependent on exchanges. Even for P2P transactions, there will be tax.

I think the best way to pay less tax is through gift cards right now. If some relatives are planning to purchase something from Amazon, you take cash from them and give them gift cards. Otherwise there's no straight forward way to save on tax.

[pakhitheboss]

Not sure how Business Standard has predicted that the crypto tax is not going to change for next 2 years. But there's literally no way to minimise crypto tax in you are dependent on exchanges. Even for P2P transactions, there will be tax.

I think the best way to pay less tax is through gift cards right now. If some relatives are planning to purchase something from Amazon, you take cash from them and give them gift cards. Otherwise there's no straight forward way to save on tax.

It is a possibility as the timeline submitted by IMF on regulation in the G20 summit says 2025 as the year for regulatory framework to be completed. If that is the case then the current tax slab will continue for the next 2 years. I think in that sense Business Standard might have predicted. The government of India has not indicated that they will be coming up with their own crypto framework. Next year they will be busy with the central election. Expect this tax bracket to continue for 2 years with no respite.

[Stedsm]

Well, TBH I've got ways to save yourself from taxes but I really don't want to share them here as I don't wanna hit myself in the foot. However, one is going via P2P (outside exchanges, be it cash or through bank) but using a current account and showing a business instead of doing it through an individual account. But yeah, remember that this too includes risk as there are leakers (even those who are our closed ones), so it's better to get a reliable partner before getting into this. Don't hesitate to contact me as I have done deals of my friends outside this forum with ease, and everything was smooth always.

[pakhitheboss]

Well, TBH I've got ways to save yourself from taxes but I really don't want to share them here as I don't wanna hit myself in the foot. However, one is going via P2P (outside exchanges, be it cash or through bank) but using a current account and showing a business instead of doing it through an individual account. But yeah, remember that this too includes risk as there are leakers (even those who are our closed ones), so it's better to get a reliable partner before getting into this. Don't hesitate to contact me as I have done deals of my friends outside this forum with ease, and everything was smooth always.

I am testing a new P2P exchange and within a few days, I will come up with a review. The P2P exchange is brand new therefore without testing it, I cannot publish anything about it. All I can say is that it uses a smart contract to process both party's orders. By order, I meant to buy and sell orders. The only drawback is that you can only buy USDT on the Polygon network with INR on their platform. They only have one pair which is USDT/INR for both buy and sell, only UPI payments are processed. This exchange might be a top hit if they do not scam its user.

[Bitcoin Smith]

I am testing a new P2P exchange and within a few days, I will come up with a review. The P2P exchange is brand new therefore without testing it, I cannot publish anything about it. All I can say is that it uses a smart contract to process both party's orders. By order, I meant to buy and sell orders. The only drawback is that you can only buy USDT on the Polygon network with INR on their platform. They only have one pair which is USDT/INR for both buy and sell, only UPI payments are processed. This exchange might be a top hit if they do not scam its user.

Something is better than nothing bro.

But you said P2P exchange right so it means we also need another party who is willing to buy/sell for the same pair which I don't know possible because we already have Bisq supporting INR but there you can see almost zero liquidity so I don't really know whether the P2P you are saying will be succeed, but anyway good luck.

As @Stedsm said doing P2P trades outside the exchange can cut 1% TDS and can stay away from 30% capital gains but it only works for small amount even if it's current account cause we need to submit the reports for income tax and we can't hide big trace without getting caught.

Good to see you guys, hope you will keep engaged in our local board discussion too here after cause I see some old members came back into discussions after a while.

[Stedsm]

As @Stedsm said doing P2P trades outside the exchange can cut 1% TDS and can stay away from 30% capital gains but it only works for small amount even if it's current account cause we need to submit the reports for income tax and we can't hide big trace without getting caught.

Well, TBH I didn't specifically mean it for small amounts only because the people I know in my circle transact at a huge level, and by huge, I mean in crores and not even in lacs. So, it all depends on the channel that you trust and work with. As well, I know a gambler friend who won about 50 lacs with a 1k INR bet (he won max on that bet with a 5000x win), withdrew all his money easily and paid a very small amount of tax. Honestly, there's nobody a saint here and they all are involved as well, so I don't think we are bound to pay these nonsensical taxes on our transactions as if we are committing some crime.

[cafter]

Do we need to pay these tax on every small amount in crypto or only when we sit in a slab like earning more than 250k annually.

What if my crypto investment is very small under 50k and I earn around 100k annually.
So total will be 150k then also I need to pay 30% tax on crypto earnings?

[Bitcoin Smith]

Do we need to pay these tax on every small amount in crypto or only when we sit in a slab like earning more than 250k annually.

What if my crypto investment is very small under 50k and I earn around 100k annually.
So total will be 150k then also I need to pay 30% tax on crypto earnings?

Firstly, you need to pay capital gains only when you sell BTC to fiat so if you are simply holding 50K worth of cryptos then you no need to pay any taxes for that.

And about the question you asked, Gains are added to your income. Therefore, the income tax slab rate is applicable and if your annual income is below 250K INR then you don't need to pay any taxes at all (correct me if I am wrong guys).

As per your statement your annual income is 150K INR annually which means 12,500 INR per month which means you will be exempted to pay any taxes at all.

Please refer to this thread [GUIDE] How Bitcoin and Cryptocurrencies are taxed in India? created by webtricks for further information.

Well, TBH I didn't specifically mean it for small amounts only because the people I know in my circle transact at a huge level, and by huge, I mean in crores and not even in lacs. So, it all depends on the channel that you trust and work with. As well, I know a gambler friend who won about 50 lacs with a 1k INR bet (he won max on that bet with a 5000x win), withdrew all his money easily and paid a very small amount of tax. Honestly, there's nobody a saint here and they all are involved as well, so I don't think we are bound to pay these nonsensical taxes on our transactions as if we are committing some crime.

Every Individual who has the turn around over 50 lacs or above will be under the radar of Income tax so it's more risky to be honest but if they have enough business to cover the incoming transactions from crypto then they can get away.

And how much your friend actually paid as tax because recently India passed 28% as tax-deductible from overall winnings, so your friend supposed to pay for the winnings which is 49,99,000INR and 28% of it is around 14,000,000INR.

[Carebar]

I know a guy using a debit card to cash out crypto. He is in different country but I'm sure it works anywhere in the world. He has had it for over year now and works perfect. But you have to buy the card.

[Stedsm]

--snip--
And how much your friend actually paid as tax because recently India passed 28% as tax-deductible from overall winnings, so your friend supposed to pay for the winnings which is 49,99,000INR and 28% of it is around 14,000,000INR.

I won't disclose the amount TBH as I don't want to share such things publicly. However, I can say that he didn't pay even 1/10th of what was passed. Just like exchanges, gambling casinos are also available that don't ask for KYC and pay you in crypto completely which is why, whatever comes under the jurisdiction of some other country has nothing to do with ours (ofcourse it's not called legal but it is what it is). So depositing and taking withdrawals in crypto (even in bank account via our local currency) is possible through some gambling casinos. As I told you, the network I am with has got almost everything covered.

[pakhitheboss]

But you said P2P exchange right so it means we also need another party who is willing to buy/sell for the same pair which I don't know possible because we already have Bisq supporting INR but there you can see almost zero liquidity so I don't really know whether the P2P you are saying will be succeed, but anyway good luck.

It is indeed a P2P exchange where you do not need to contact the seller or buyer. All transactions are done using a smart contract, wherein whenever you place a buy or sell request the smart contract matches a reciprocating request for your order. I have not tried the platform at the moment, but by checking their telegram group I think it is safe for now. There are some restrictions like a max of 3 orders can be placed on any given day and the USDT rates that they are providing is better than other international P2P exchanges.   

[cafter]

snip

and what about TDS for every trade we make on exchanges?
is this applicable for every small to big amounts?

[Stedsm]

snip

and what about TDS for every trade we make on exchanges?
is this applicable for every small to big amounts?

Regardless of the amount size, it is applicable on almost all types of P2P transactions. However, there are people who go for external (havala or angadia) trades through which they save that 1%, but yeah, prices in cash for USDT are lesser than normal market prices in P2P, but not that huge that a whole 1% would get deducted. So this is one way you can save some money, however the opposite party must be highly trustworthy.

[Carebar]

Listen guys there is a company people are using that's safe to pull your cash out from crypto. It's not like the one posted here several years ago. This is a legit company and I know people that have been using them for couple years now. Go to there website and check it out. Contact them and get details.

https://www.4blackcard.com/

I know I'm newbie but go there ask questions and do your research. It's BS people in our world want to control what you should have especially after you earned it and it's yours. Knowledge to trade is and learning it is no different then going to school. You made money but also lost money in the process. So it's same as any business. Spread the word. Find couple guys and research that company and trust me you will all be able to transfer your crypto to cash and pull it out.

[2double0]

Listen guys there is a company people are using that's safe to pull your cash out from crypto. It's not like the one posted here several years ago. This is a legit company and I know people that have been using them for couple years now. Go to there website and check it out. Contact them and get details.

https://www.4blackcard.com/

I know I'm newbie but go there ask questions and do your research. It's BS people in our world want to control what you should have especially after you earned it and it's yours. Knowledge to trade is and learning it is no different then going to school. You made money but also lost money in the process. So it's same as any business. Spread the word. Find couple guys and research that company and trust me you will all be able to transfer your crypto to cash and pull it out.

Cash out in which currency?
I saw dollars there. I am in India currently and want to know how this works. There are some questions in my mind:

Will there be a forex fee each time I try to withdraw my money?
Is it going to get recharged in btc or usdt?
If it is going to be btc, what will be the price?
Market rate or some difference?
How anonymous will I be after using this card?
Will the Indian government know and trace my withdrawals?

You said we should ask them, but I am asking you because you shared this with us. It looks like an advertisement because the website has just 2 pages of content and still not enough details.

[Carebar]

You get anonymous card not in your name. This is same company many movies tars and high profile people use to hide thier identity from everyone for many reasons. Many crypto traders use it also. As far as I know you buy the card transfer your coin and its loaded on the card were you can go to any ATM and take out cash. It's unlimited. Not tracable. My advice to you is to go to website and contact them and they will tell you everything you need to know. My friend has been using it in Turkey for almost 2 years now with no problems. He told me there are many using it in India now because of your laws.

[mrcash2000]

Listen guys there is a company people are using that's safe to pull your cash out from crypto. It's not like the one posted here several years ago. This is a legit company and I know people that have been using them for couple years now. Go to there website and check it out. Contact them and get details.

https://www.4blackcard.com/

I know I'm newbie but go there ask questions and do your research. It's BS people in our world want to control what you should have especially after you earned it and it's yours. Knowledge to trade is and learning it is no different then going to school. You made money but also lost money in the process. So it's same as any business. Spread the word. Find couple guys and research that company and trust me you will all be able to transfer your crypto to cash and pull it out.

Cash out in which currency?
I saw dollars there. I am in India currently and want to know how this works. There are some questions in my mind:

Will there be a forex fee each time I try to withdraw my money?
Is it going to get recharged in btc or usdt?
If it is going to be btc, what will be the price?
Market rate or some difference?
How anonymous will I be after using this card?
Will the Indian government know and trace my withdrawals?

You said we should ask them, but I am asking you because you shared this with us. It looks like an advertisement because the website has just 2 pages of content and still not enough details.

Hi I've been using the card for years as it was given to me by a sportsbook I was using. This 4blackcard co was always dealing B2B for the last 20 years but recently they decided to tackle the retail side because they saw a big need for people to cash out their crypto. There are thousands and thousands of traders that cannot off ramp their crypto easily, even some who have moved to dubai for the 0% tax against crypto are having issues with using the banks there. The way the card system works is fairly simple. You have to pay 2-3% for each and every load, you can send them USDT or BTC preferably USDT and its loaded onto the card. If you are in india then you will be using an ATM machine so you will be paid in your local currency. Its completely anonymous they don't have any of your details only whatever address you give them to send the card. The card bin number registers through a USA bank so the indian government would probably just think its a tourist it can never be traced back to you. They will also send the card up front to you and once you start using it then you can pay them the fee later but you can check with them on the specific details. Hope this helps.