Trezor Safe 3 New Hardware Wallet

[Pmalek]

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I am guessing that once the new chip is ready, they will start installing it into new versions of one or both of those two wallets you just mentioned. The Trezor Safe 3 already has a secure element by a different company. I don't know how challenging it would be to change the design and incorporate this new chip into it. Maybe they will even delay the release of the second new hardware wallet just enough to finish their new SE and build it into the new model. I really don't think we will also see a 3rd hardware wallet by Trezor in the space of just a few years that will use this upcoming chip.

Even though it supports Monero and a few other cryptocurrencies that were missing on the Model One, for some reason it doesn't support some of them that were available on the older model ^{[a bit weird]}: Dropped list

Luckily for those who will buy this device for altcoins, the list isn't that long and doesn't contain many "big" names. EOS and Dash are relatively popular, but with the former being completely silent for years and the latter having a flawed privacy feature.

Not to rain on everyone's open source parade, but all the TropicSquare chip will be is a partially open source secure element, with elements of the chip still black-box due to closed source foundry PDKs with foundry NDAs.

I have been saying that since I read their early announcement about their upcoming SE that was posted here in Czech. They said that open-sourcing everything is too big of a security risk, so they will try to make it as open-source as possible.

The bitcoin only version is sold out https://trezor.io/trezor-safe-3-bitcoin-only

As I said, I think if it wasn't a limited edition they would drastically increase their revenue.

It's still not late to change their mind. If the users love it, get a second batch going.

[Rikafip]

The bitcoin only version is sold out https://trezor.io/trezor-safe-3-bitcoin-only

As I said, I think if it wasn't a limited edition they would drastically increase their revenue.

Or maybe they wouldn't sell so many so fast if it wasn't a limited edition.  

[JayJuanGee]

The bitcoin only version is sold out https://trezor.io/trezor-safe-3-bitcoin-only

As I said, I think if it wasn't a limited edition they would drastically increase their revenue.

I thought that in the current models (the Trezor 1 and the Trezor Model T), whether it is bitcoin ONLY or multi-coin is a kind of a software setup.  So when you initially set up the device, you can choose whether to set up for bitcoin only or for multi-coin.. and if you want to change back to the other, then you have to erase the device and start over. 

Or maybe I am wrong.. in the older devices it is firm ware, but the firmware can still be changed back and forth, no?

So now, in the newer version, there is a kind of difference in the hardware that the consumer has to choose which one and cannot elect how to set it up after receiving it?

[tenant48]

The bitcoin only version is sold out https://trezor.io/trezor-safe-3-bitcoin-only

As I said, I think if it wasn't a limited edition they would drastically increase their revenue.

I thought that in the current models (the Trezor 1 and the Trezor Model T), whether it is bitcoin ONLY or multi-coin is a kind of a software setup.  So when you initially set up the device, you can choose whether to set up for bitcoin only or for multi-coin.. and if you want to change back to the other, then you have to erase the device and start over.  

Or maybe I am wrong.. in the older devices it is firm ware, but the firmware can still be changed back and forth, no?

So now, in the newer version, there is a kind of difference in the hardware that the consumer has to choose which one and cannot elect how to set it up after receiving it?

Previously, Trezor released 4 firmwares for its wallets: 2 for Trezor one and 2 for Trezor T. Firmware only for Bitcoin and firmware for all other coins can be reinstalled at will.
The process for installing Bitcoin-only firmware is different from installing regular firmware. You must first download the firmware only for Bitcoin to your computer, here are the installation instructions:
https://blog.trezor.io/sources-say-orange-coin-good-new-bitcoin-only-firmware-now-available-47be0b611a4d

I think that with Trezor safe 3 (the usual model for all coins) everything will be similar and it will be possible to install both versions. And the Trezor safe 3 bitcoin only version model will have the ability to install firmware only for Bitcoin.

[Coin-Keeper]

I have been using bitcoin only software on  my Trezors for years now.  It works fine without adding attack vectors that other coin software may add  ----- > since I am not storing those on my hardware wallets.

I still scratch a "tin foil hat tingling" at the thought of a secure element lacking full open source observation.  Sure the software is going to remain open source, but a bad actor using a proprietary secure element has options "behind the curtain".  [popcorn]

[dkbit98]

Its different because BitBox02 and Trezor Safe 3 both storing the seed on the MCU and not on the SE. Passport and Coldcard store the seed on the SE. If I'm wrong please correct me.

Secure elements are usually very simple dumb chips with only one or two functions, but not all secure elements are equal.
I think that Passport, Coldcard, Bitbox, Onekey, Keystone3 and maybe few more hardware wallets, all use the same (or similar) secure element now.

I still scratch a "tin foil hat tingling" at the thought of a secure element lacking full open source observation.  Sure the software is going to remain open source, but a bad actor using a proprietary secure element has options "behind the curtain".  [popcorn]

Optiga Trust M secure element IS open source with MIT license, and it is used for many other devices, not just for Trezor hardware wallet.

[lyw123]

Sorry to bother you again!
The new Trezor wallet has arrived, and I have some confusion:
1) I need a secure wallet to store altcoins, and I believe Trezor should be the best choice. It is the most famous among open-source wallets and has the least possibility of having a backdoor. Even for Trezor, the number of users is only slightly over a million (1M+, according to the official website). Other open-source hardware wallets (altcoin wallet, not bitcoin only) have few users and less attention, making them less secure.
2) I previously bought 4 trezor one, intending to use for many years. However, hardware wallet companies release product quickly. Should I only buy one of each generation of products? The passphrase for Trezor One is entered via the computer, while Trezor safe 3 has an input on the hardware wallet itself. I want to buy a Trezor safe 3 from the Trezor Amazon store since buying directly from the official website incurs high shipping costs. Additionally, after obtaining new hardware wallet, is it necessary to change the seed phrases and passphrase?

[witcher_sense]

Additionally, after obtaining new hardware wallet, is it necessary to change the seed phrases and passphrase?

Your question is not very clear, I hope you don't mean that hardware wallets are usually being shipped with some "default" seed phrases and passphrases. If you notice something like that, you should immediately withdraw your coins to a wallet you already have, break a bought hardware wallet with a hammer, and then throw away this malicious hardware wallet. If you buy a hardware wallet from an official store or retailer, the chances of getting a malicious wallet are slim, but you still should be very careful. Should you import your existing seed phrase into a brand-new wallet? It depends. If you feel your previous secrets haven't been compromised, then it would be the fastest way to transfer coins between different wallets. Otherwise, you will have a hard time sending coins address by address to preserve the privacy of your transactions.

[satscraper]

Additionally, after obtaining new hardware wallet, is it necessary to change the seed phrases and passphrase?

I would advocate generating new seed phrases and a passphrase for your newly acquired device before transferring your funds from the old wallet. Otherwise, why invest in the new model? You should expect that the level of randomness generated by the new model is superior to that of the old Trezor. Consequently, the new seed generated by the new model is preferable.

[lyw123]

Additionally, after obtaining new hardware wallet, is it necessary to change the seed phrases and passphrase?

Your question is not very clear, I hope you don't mean that hardware wallets are usually being shipped with some "default" seed phrases and passphrases.

Not that mean.

Additionally, after obtaining new hardware wallet, is it necessary to change the seed phrases and passphrase?

I would advocate generating new seed phrases and a passphrase for your newly acquired device before transferring your funds from the old wallet. Otherwise, why invest in the new model? You should expect that the level of randomness generated by the new model is superior to that of the old Trezor. Consequently, the new seed generated by the new model is preferable.

Thank your suggestion.

[JayJuanGee]

The Trezor Safe 3 hardware wallet is generating a lot of buzz. The hardware wallet manufacturer company claims that they have used more advanced technology in their hardware wallets due to which the Trezor Safe 3 hardware wallet has advanced features compared to other hardware wallets. In the teaser they released on Twitter, many people expressed positive comments about this hardware wallet. Apart from releasing this hardware wallet with great features, this company has also focused on the price of this hardware wallet. It will probably cost around 70 Euro to 80 Euro to purchase this hardware wallet. As modern features are added, users expect to get maximum performance from this hardware wallet. The amount of discussion that this Trezor Safe 3 has created before coming to the market will undoubtedly increase its demand after it comes to the market.

This generically sounding paragraph comes off as something a bot would write.

#just saying.

[apogio]

Other open-source hardware wallets (altcoin wallet, not bitcoin only) have few users and less attention, making them less secure.

Having less attention doesn't necessarily make you less secure. In fact it may be the exact opposite.

1) I need a secure wallet to store altcoins, and I believe Trezor should be the best choice. It is the most famous among open-source wallets and has the least possibility of having a backdoor. Even for Trezor, the number of users is only slightly over a million (1M+, according to the official website).

Some years ago (before going Bitcoin-only) I bought a Trezor One and I used it for some altcoins. I was good. I haven't been informed though lately, because since 2020 I am bitcoin-only, so I don't use this wallet (or any other altcoin wallet).

[Pmalek]

I thought that in the current models (the Trezor 1 and the Trezor Model T), whether it is bitcoin ONLY or multi-coin is a kind of a software setup.  So when you initially set up the device, you can choose whether to set up for bitcoin only or for multi-coin.. and if you want to change back to the other, then you have to erase the device and start over. 

Or maybe I am wrong.. in the older devices it is firm ware, but the firmware can still be changed back and forth, no?

That's exactly how it is with the older versions. During the onboarding stage, you need to pick between the Bitcoin-only and multi-coin firmware. And you can, of course, reset the device at anytime and install the other firmware.

So now, in the newer version, there is a kind of difference in the hardware that the consumer has to choose which one and cannot elect how to set it up after receiving it?

I don't think there is any difference hardware-wise. The difference is in the design of the case. Trezor released two different cases. The universal model is black, front and back. The limited Bitcoin-only version (that is already sold out) comes with an orange back cover and inscription saying 21 million or something like that. But I think both of them support both types of firmware. 

[lyw123]

Other open-source hardware wallets (altcoin wallet, not bitcoin only) have few users and less attention, making them less secure.

Having less attention doesn't necessarily make you less secure. In fact it may be the exact opposite.

You may be right. I found user reviews of different wallets on the bitbox website. see https://bitbox.swiss/bitbox02/#compare and https://www.trustpilot.com/review/bitbox.swiss
I compared several kinds of wallets and recorded the theft situation myself, as follows:

Trezor,     User score: 3.5,  Number of reviews: 405,   Number of stolen users: 12, Some details: Robert in AU, 160,000$ stolen; Curtis in US, 100,000$ stolen; Donald in US, 60,000$ stolen; Voodoo in AU, 0.4BTC stolen.
Ledger,    User score: 2.8,  Number of reviews: 1559, Number of stolen users: 12, Some details: Di in IT, 1 eth stolen; Ale in AU, 0.33BTC stolen.
Keepkey,  User score: 2.4,  Number of reviews: 290, Number of stolen users: 1, Some details: Gennady, 5000$ stolen.
BitBox,     User score: 4.9,  Number of reviews: 547, Number of stolen users: None
Keystone, User score: 4.2,  Number of reviews: 47,   Number of stolen users: None
Onekey,   User score: 3.5,  Number of reviews: 56,   Number of stolen users: None

The theft of the Trezor hardware wallet is the most serious. Is it possible that there is a bad man inside the Trezor company who left a backdoor in the manufacturing process of a small number of wallets? And the genuine firmware of Trezor and Trezor Suite did not recognize it?

[o_e_l_e_o]

Is it possible that there is a bad man inside the Trezor company who left a backdoor in the manufacturing process of a small number of wallets?

Is it possible? Sure. Is it likely? Definitely not.

Trezor is open source, so if there was something shady in the code you would hope (but can't guarantee) that someone in the community would have picked it up and publicized it. If you aren't able to examine the entire source code yourself, then this is the best you can hope for.

In terms of the "stolen" reviews you have found - do any of them actually provide any details? It is easy for a competitor to post fake reviews, and we've also seen countless users on this forum make posts blaming their hardware wallet for the funds being stolen, and it almost always turns out to be a mistake the user has made instead (such as storing their seed phrase in their emails). I wouldn't pick a Trezor device for many reasons, their anti-privacy and pro-censorship stance being the main one, but I also doubt any of these "stolen" reviews are true.

[satscraper]

Is it possible that there is a bad man inside the Trezor company who left a backdoor in the manufacturing process of a small number of wallets?

You can even raise the more general concern. Is it possible that there is a bad entity (located, let's say, in China) outside Trezor company that produces counterfeits of wallets? I would not answered negatively. Even if such company doesn't exist today it can appear tomorrow.  Thus, it is always better to buy the stuff directly from brand.

[apogio]

The theft of the Trezor hardware wallet is the most serious. Is it possible that there is a bad man inside the Trezor company who left a backdoor in the manufacturing process of a small number of wallets? And the genuine firmware of Trezor and Trezor Suite did not recognize it?

In terms of the "stolen" reviews you have found - do any of them actually provide any details? It is easy for a competitor to post fake reviews, and we've also seen countless users on this forum make posts blaming their hardware wallet for the funds being stolen, and it almost always turns out to be a mistake the user has made instead (such as storing their seed phrase in their emails). I wouldn't pick a Trezor device for many reasons, their anti-privacy and pro-censorship stance being the main one, but I also doubt any of these "stolen" reviews are true.

Well I have heard rumours about Trezor funds being stolen. I have heard of someone who claimed money loss but he had forgotten his passphrase. This means that it wasn't due to the company. Here is another example of this situation: https://www.reddit.com/r/TREZOR/comments/sfpotu/lost_passphrase/

Let's say that a company ABC produces a HW and you buy it and use it. After a month, you lose an amount of BTC. In my opinion, chances are almost 100% that it is a user mistake, provided of course that the HW and the company ABC is reputable and trusted, and provided that you have bought it straight from the company and not from a reseller.

It all comes down to us after all. I have also lost a small amount of money from a hot wallet I owned: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5461230.0 . Personally I had made a ton of mistakes, so...

[lyw123]

we've also seen countless users on this forum make posts blaming their hardware wallet for the funds being stolen, and it almost always turns out to be a mistake the user has made instead (such as storing their seed phrase in their emails).

I have carefully reviewed the stolen comments and have difficulty to confirm the true reason. I am not a professional, but I believe that there is no problem for Trezor firmware and Trezor Suite, only the hardware itself may have problems. If a backdoor is left on a small amount of hardware, ordinary users and professionals cannot detect it. Of course, if the Trezor firmware can effectively eliminate the harm of fake hardware wallets, then it can only be users' errors.

You can even raise the more general concern. Is it possible that there is a bad entity (located, let's say, in China) outside Trezor company that produces counterfeits of wallets? I would not answered negatively. Even if such company doesn't exist today it can appear tomorrow.  Thus, it is always better to buy the stuff directly from brand.

It is fact that there are many cheaters in China.  I bought two Trezor One from the Trezor official website, and another two from the Trezor store on Amazon.

It all comes down to us after all. I have also lost a small amount of money from a hot wallet I owned: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5461230.0 . Personally I had made a ton of mistakes, so...

Yes, the high probability is that the users' own errors. Getting professionals' opinions make newbies like me feel ease.  o_ e_ l_ e_o said:"Just one incident can wipe me out."  It's better to be cautious.

[SFR10]

and if you want to change back to the other, then you have to erase the device and start over. 

You're not required to erase your device, but it's best to use it with a new set of seed phrases ^{[and a passphrase]}.

in the older devices it is firm ware, but the firmware can still be changed back and forth, no?

Yes, and it takes around a minute to complete: Firmware switching

The process for installing Bitcoin-only firmware is different from installing regular firmware. You must first download the firmware only for Bitcoin to your computer, here are the installation instructions:
https://blog.trezor.io/sources-say-orange-coin-good-new-bitcoin-only-firmware-now-available-47be0b611a4d

There's an easier way that's been around for more than a year: Trezor Suite added an "easy" way to "directly" install Bitcoin-only firmware

Trezor released two different cases. The universal model is black, front and back.

They released four different backplates... Apart from the cosmic black, you can choose the stellar silver and solar gold as well.

[Pmalek]

I am not a professional, but I believe that there is no problem for Trezor firmware and Trezor Suite, only the hardware itself may have problems. If a backdoor is left on a small amount of hardware, ordinary users and professionals cannot detect it.

You have said yourself that you are a newbie, so what are you basing your assumptions on? Simple believing it isn't enough.

They released four different backplates... Apart from the cosmic black, you can choose the stellar silver and solar gold as well.

Yes, you are correct. The universal model comes with 4 different back covers. You forgot to mention the pink one as well. So, the total count is 5 back covers, 4 for the Universal model and the orange one for the Bitcoin-only Trezor.