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henkcryptotank
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February 21, 2024, 09:57:12 AM |
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Im sure they would LOVE to auction that beast off.
Timing seems right as well, to me at least...
Greets Tank
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rsincognito
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February 24, 2024, 05:31:41 PM |
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Otoh
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February 26, 2024, 02:18:23 AM |
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Otoh, Can you briefly describe the process and logistics of auctioning those 250 coins? I am mostly interested in knowing: - How were they transported to Heritage? What was the security like?
- Did you end up receiving more or less than the value of the BTC from the auction?
- Were there any costs to you?
I still have that bar and I don't feel comfortable holding such a valuable item, but I would hate to peel it. Perhaps I could auction it on Heritage. Sure, I took the coins out of my private bank's safe deposit box and met up with Heritage's London director, Sara, at the bank's secure meeting room, I'll PM you the exact place in case that was convenient for you to use as well, we chatted with Heritage head office in Dallas to sort out the fine details of the deal, though those also got tweaked a few times right up to the sale itself, she took delivery from me right there and gave me a receipt to itemise them and showing that they were now insured for their bitcoin spot price @ $30,000/BTC = $6M, she either took or had them shipped to Dallas at Heritage's expense and handled any and all paperwork involved in that, because I consigned them from my tax haven fiscal location there was no US, or other jurisdiction's, income or capital gains tax liability on the sale, even though the auction took place is the States. Because of the deal I made, which guaranteed me a minimum of the bitcoin spot price at the time of the sale, and then a later deal with guaranteed me a large lump sum to be paid to me in two weeks, plus for any unsold coins to be returned to me the whole working out of the accounts was rather convoluted and complicated, I also got 50% of the buyer's premium paid to me after 45 days, the bitcoin price was rising so fast and much that it all ended up very positive for both Heritage, myself and all of the buyers as well. I didn't pay any shipping or seller's premium, I was meant to be charged for the NGC slabbing, but haven't gone through the settlement accounts yet to see if I actually was and how much if so, I don't think that I paid anything towards to catalogues printing and photography, etc, but again would need to check that to be sure. Basically you'd need to negotiate your own deal with them, unless you did it through an agent who'd do that on your behalf. Hope that this helps, will PM some more details... |
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rsincognito
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February 27, 2024, 06:11:00 PM |
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all great info, thank. you Otoh. =)
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Gatorelf
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February 27, 2024, 11:51:01 PM |
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Good to see them making it to the numismatic collectors circle.
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rsincognito
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March 01, 2024, 01:51:50 AM |
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New sale! 2013 Cas coin 1.0 btc MS68: SOLD! Hammer price was $65k plus 20% buyers fee. Final Purchase price $78k Link : https://ibb.co/3pNzknd |
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Otoh
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March 01, 2024, 03:15:31 AM |
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Eclipse33
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Eclipse™ Experimental Cryptographic Technology
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March 01, 2024, 04:58:05 AM |
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New sale! 2013 Cas coin 1.0 btc MS68: SOLD! Hammer price was $65k plus 20% buyers fee. Final Purchase price $78k Link : https://ibb.co/3pNzkndThese are incredible. The fact that these coins are going for these figures is astounding to me. These are on their way to being some of the most expensive numismatics in the world |
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■▀ MARKETPLACE
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████████████▀▀█████▀▀ | | BTC |
| XMR | ACCEPTED | | | ███
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tread93 (OP)
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March 03, 2024, 05:23:45 AM |
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That's amazing! Congratulations Otoh, this sale was an absolute hit! This was a win win win for everyone involved. Didn't you say you meant to do another one with Heritage soon? |
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Otoh
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March 03, 2024, 09:31:42 AM |
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That's amazing! Congratulations Otoh, this sale was an absolute hit! This was a win win win for everyone involved. Didn't you say you meant to do another one with Heritage soon? Yes indeed, I am in talks with them now about that, if it goes ahead then there'll be much more variety and rares on offer this next time, I don't want to list more than the present physical crypto collectors market can comfortably absorb, but on the other hand I do want to make a bigger splash with an amazing catalogue, and maybe facilitate some whale/s to make a potential one off world class collection/s in an easy swoop if they liked, and to also allow others to pick up some of the rarer gems that are getting very hard to source nowadays, so I have inventoried for a Part 2 and am awaiting their feedback on that. A lot of the coins I had slabbed by ANACS between 2014 and 2016, most in early 2014, when they were the only game in town for that, so they have great provenance, kind of like the old green label slabs for regular coins from PCGS, and also it wouldn't have been cost effective for anyone to make forgeries back then so that helps, the only issue though is ANACS were very slack and didn't give many of the coin's addresses on their verification links page, or photos of them, they did offer to put this right afterwards but I didn't want to keep shipping them back and forth as they were rising in value a lot, so I'll need to decide if keeping the old slabs, asking Heritage to send photos to ANACS and the addresses for them to add, or to re-slab them with NGC in 'Otoh Collection' slabs instead, I did feel that ANACS graded them rather conservatively back then as well, so it could be that they'd do better now if resubmitted to NGC, but perhaps Heritage will think that maybe the market could prefer them in the old slabs, no idea or preference myself, and I will be guided by them on it all. |
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Otoh
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March 03, 2024, 09:47:13 AM
Last edit: March 03, 2024, 10:02:48 AM by Otoh |
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ie, this is five of six of them, where they did actually list addresses and post photos in their verification links: 4589722 2011 TOKEN 1 BITCOIN "CASACIUS" IN HOLOGRAM BRASS 19r1SK9y MS 67 4589723 2011 TOKEN 1 BITCOIN "CASACIUS" IN HOLOGRAM BRASS 19GYM8Xj MS 67 4589724 2013 TOKEN CASASCIUS 0.1 BITCOIN SILVER 1AgyC8At MS 67 4589725 2013 TOKEN CASASCIUS 0.1 BITCOIN SILVER 1AgyyPm3 MS 67 4589726 2013 TOKEN CASASCIUS 1 BITCOIN SILVER 1Agw6y5i MS 67 4589727 2012 TOKEN 5 BITCOINS "CASACIUS" IN HOLOGRAM BRASS 1BtwEsTB MS 66 but most are like the last one with no photos, therefor not even showing their addresses, the same as that one, so this needs dealing with before they're submitted to an auction |
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henkcryptotank
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March 03, 2024, 06:50:10 PM |
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I cant wait. Im gonna dress up like a Japanese schoolgirl with pompoms, just for the occasion!
Dont judge me!
Tank
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tread93 (OP)
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March 03, 2024, 09:46:45 PM |
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That's amazing! Congratulations Otoh, this sale was an absolute hit! This was a win win win for everyone involved. Didn't you say you meant to do another one with Heritage soon? Yes indeed, I am in talks with them now about that, if it goes ahead then there'll be much more variety and rares on offer this next time, I don't want to list more than the present physical crypto collectors market can comfortably absorb, but on the other hand I do want to make a bigger splash with an amazing catalogue, and maybe facilitate some whale/s to make a potential one off world class collection/s in an easy swoop if they liked, and to also allow others to pick up some of the rarer gems that are getting very hard to source nowadays, so I have inventoried for a Part 2 and am awaiting their feedback on that. A lot of the coins I had slabbed by ANACS between 2014 and 2016, most in early 2014, when they were the only game in town for that, so they have great provenance, kind of like the old green label slabs for regular coins from PCGS, and also it wouldn't have been cost effective for anyone to make forgeries back then so that helps, the only issue though is ANACS were very slack and didn't give many of the coin's addresses on their verification links page, or photos of them, they did offer to put this right afterwards but I didn't want to keep shipping them back and forth as they were rising in value a lot, so I'll need to decide if keeping the old slabs, asking Heritage to send photos to ANACS and the addresses for them to add, or to re-slab them with NGC in 'Otoh Collection' slabs instead, I did feel that ANACS graded them rather conservatively back then as well, so it could be that they'd do better now if resubmitted to NGC, but perhaps Heritage will think that maybe the market could prefer them in the old slabs, no idea or preference myself, and I will be guided by them on it all. Very exciting news! Thanks for that update. Hmmmm that is surely quite a predicament you've got yourself in. I would have to agree on your comparison to the green labled slabs w/ PCGS for those crypto ANACS slabs. That is definitely a tough nut to crack. Honestly you might be right though in what you said about them being graded very conservatively and might be better off getting them re-slabbed/re-graded through NGC, as you said. I think just for your namesake alone having them slabbed and labled with your collection pedigree would be more appealing to the collection but on the other hand the ANACS slabs offer a vintage feel and are semi historic being that you can't replace them becuase ANACS doesn't grade crypto anymore (Pity). Good luck with the gathering and careful consideration here! I'm sure this next sale of yours is going to be quite the sight! |
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minerjones
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March 04, 2024, 04:12:11 AM |
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That's amazing! Congratulations Otoh, this sale was an absolute hit! This was a win win win for everyone involved. Didn't you say you meant to do another one with Heritage soon? Yes indeed, I am in talks with them now about that, if it goes ahead then there'll be much more variety and rares on offer this next time, I don't want to list more than the present physical crypto collectors market can comfortably absorb, but on the other hand I do want to make a bigger splash with an amazing catalogue, and maybe facilitate some whale/s to make a potential one off world class collection/s in an easy swoop if they liked, and to also allow others to pick up some of the rarer gems that are getting very hard to source nowadays, so I have inventoried for a Part 2 and am awaiting their feedback on that. A lot of the coins I had slabbed by ANACS between 2014 and 2016, most in early 2014, when they were the only game in town for that, so they have great provenance, kind of like the old green label slabs for regular coins from PCGS, and also it wouldn't have been cost effective for anyone to make forgeries back then so that helps, the only issue though is ANACS were very slack and didn't give many of the coin's addresses on their verification links page, or photos of them, they did offer to put this right afterwards but I didn't want to keep shipping them back and forth as they were rising in value a lot, so I'll need to decide if keeping the old slabs, asking Heritage to send photos to ANACS and the addresses for them to add, or to re-slab them with NGC in 'Otoh Collection' slabs instead, I did feel that ANACS graded them rather conservatively back then as well, so it could be that they'd do better now if resubmitted to NGC, but perhaps Heritage will think that maybe the market could prefer them in the old slabs, no idea or preference myself, and I will be guided by them on it all. Very exciting news! Thanks for that update. Hmmmm that is surely quite a predicament you've got yourself in. I would have to agree on your comparison to the green labled slabs w/ PCGS for those crypto ANACS slabs. That is definitely a tough nut to crack. Honestly you might be right though in what you said about them being graded very conservatively and might be better off getting them re-slabbed/re-graded through NGC, as you said. I think just for your namesake alone having them slabbed and labled with your collection pedigree would be more appealing to the collection but on the other hand the ANACS slabs offer a vintage feel and are semi historic being that you can't replace them becuase ANACS doesn't grade crypto anymore (Pity). Good luck with the gathering and careful consideration here! I'm sure this next sale of yours is going to be quite the sight! In my opinion, I feel that any early graded physical crypto that is in an ANACS slab should stay that way... The historical worth far out-weighs any bump up in grade value that you would get auctioning said coin. |
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Otoh
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March 04, 2024, 08:56:58 AM
Last edit: March 04, 2024, 09:16:19 AM by Otoh |
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That's amazing! Congratulations Otoh, this sale was an absolute hit! This was a win win win for everyone involved. Didn't you say you meant to do another one with Heritage soon? Yes indeed, I am in talks with them now about that, if it goes ahead then there'll be much more variety and rares on offer this next time, I don't want to list more than the present physical crypto collectors market can comfortably absorb, but on the other hand I do want to make a bigger splash with an amazing catalogue, and maybe facilitate some whale/s to make a potential one off world class collection/s in an easy swoop if they liked, and to also allow others to pick up some of the rarer gems that are getting very hard to source nowadays, so I have inventoried for a Part 2 and am awaiting their feedback on that. A lot of the coins I had slabbed by ANACS between 2014 and 2016, most in early 2014, when they were the only game in town for that, so they have great provenance, kind of like the old green label slabs for regular coins from PCGS, and also it wouldn't have been cost effective for anyone to make forgeries back then so that helps, the only issue though is ANACS were very slack and didn't give many of the coin's addresses on their verification links page, or photos of them, they did offer to put this right afterwards but I didn't want to keep shipping them back and forth as they were rising in value a lot, so I'll need to decide if keeping the old slabs, asking Heritage to send photos to ANACS and the addresses for them to add, or to re-slab them with NGC in 'Otoh Collection' slabs instead, I did feel that ANACS graded them rather conservatively back then as well, so it could be that they'd do better now if resubmitted to NGC, but perhaps Heritage will think that maybe the market could prefer them in the old slabs, no idea or preference myself, and I will be guided by them on it all. Very exciting news! Thanks for that update. Hmmmm that is surely quite a predicament you've got yourself in. I would have to agree on your comparison to the green labled slabs w/ PCGS for those crypto ANACS slabs. That is definitely a tough nut to crack. Honestly you might be right though in what you said about them being graded very conservatively and might be better off getting them re-slabbed/re-graded through NGC, as you said. I think just for your namesake alone having them slabbed and labled with your collection pedigree would be more appealing to the collection but on the other hand the ANACS slabs offer a vintage feel and are semi historic being that you can't replace them becuase ANACS doesn't grade crypto anymore (Pity). Good luck with the gathering and careful consideration here! I'm sure this next sale of yours is going to be quite the sight! In my opinion, I feel that any early graded physical crypto that is in an ANACS slab should stay that way... The historical worth far out-weighs any bump up in grade value that you would get auctioning said coin. Many thanks for the input MJ, much appreciated, yep these are early historical slabs, and even though ANACS was a bit of a chaos at that time with the new crypto field that they were the first to try and handle, so they made tons of rookie errors, like not putting Cas addies on the slabs, or uploading photos onto their verification links, which perhaps can be corrected via Heritage now, and even with minor typos on a couple of the addies, it probably would be best as you recommend and to leave them all as is, and I expect that is what Heritage will also advise. A bit like error coins, they where genuine mistakes at the time and old slabs can never be repeated, even if they appear to be a bit naive in how they were trying to genuinely get a grip on all that new fangled crypto stuff back then, nearly a decade ago. I'm all for preserving the history if possible, rather than attempting to maybe maximising potential returns, the good karma of doing the right thing will more than make up for it all. |
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geophphreigh
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March 04, 2024, 06:04:44 PM |
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I too love the historic ANACS slabbed coins. This may sound crazy, and I am kinda half kidding. . . but not really, could you treat the whole slabbed coin as a collectible and would PCGS slab the slab? They have been slabbing Kialaras, cas bars etc, I would think a yellow slab would fit into one of those larger slabs and would be super cool way to preserve the yellow, error, and early labels etc., but still update to PCGS. I can’t imagine they would ever even consider doing this, but it would be super cool in my opinion.
Otho collection is out of my range, but just a thought.
Geophphreigh
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rsincognito
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March 04, 2024, 09:54:51 PM |
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I too love the historic ANACS slabbed coins. This may sound crazy, and I am kinda half kidding. . . but not really, could you treat the whole slabbed coin as a collectible and would PCGS slab the slab? They have been slabbing Kialaras, cas bars etc, I would think a yellow slab would fit into one of those larger slabs and would be super cool way to preserve the yellow, error, and early labels etc., but still update to PCGS. I can’t imagine they would ever even consider doing this, but it would be super cool in my opinion.
Otho collection is out of my range, but just a thought.
Geophphreigh
damn I love this idea so much, and wow would a ANACS yellow slab look so amazing inside an oversized PCGS slab. please make it happen M.J.  . lol |
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minerjones
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March 04, 2024, 10:22:20 PM |
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I too love the historic ANACS slabbed coins. This may sound crazy, and I am kinda half kidding. . . but not really, could you treat the whole slabbed coin as a collectible and would PCGS slab the slab? They have been slabbing Kialaras, cas bars etc, I would think a yellow slab would fit into one of those larger slabs and would be super cool way to preserve the yellow, error, and early labels etc., but still update to PCGS. I can’t imagine they would ever even consider doing this, but it would be super cool in my opinion.
Otho collection is out of my range, but just a thought.
Geophphreigh
damn I love this idea so much, and wow would a ANACS yellow slab look so amazing inside an oversized PCGS slab. please make it happen M.J. . lol Ha, I'm not sure I have that kind of crypto-witchcraft up my sleeve... but I am happy to try We would have "slab inception" then... lol  I know grading companies will do things like cross-grading, but this is another level!!  |
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tread93 (OP)
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March 05, 2024, 04:11:57 AM |
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I too love the historic ANACS slabbed coins. This may sound crazy, and I am kinda half kidding. . . but not really, could you treat the whole slabbed coin as a collectible and would PCGS slab the slab? They have been slabbing Kialaras, cas bars etc, I would think a yellow slab would fit into one of those larger slabs and would be super cool way to preserve the yellow, error, and early labels etc., but still update to PCGS. I can’t imagine they would ever even consider doing this, but it would be super cool in my opinion.
Otho collection is out of my range, but just a thought.
Geophphreigh
damn I love this idea so much, and wow would a ANACS yellow slab look so amazing inside an oversized PCGS slab. please make it happen M.J. . lol Ha, I'm not sure I have that kind of crypto-witchcraft up my sleeve... but I am happy to try We would have "slab inception" then... lol I know grading companies will do things like cross-grading, but this is another level!! Honestly this is a really good idea. Considering they are a retired category and historical ANACS collectible I feel like NGC would hear that argument out, grading a slab and putting it in another Slab it's actually not unheard of so to speak, this concept was employed with a 2019 'slab shaped' medal in October 2023 to commemorate 5 years of NGC's Shanghai office. Check it: https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/4895888-161/70/ |
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Otoh
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March 07, 2024, 03:46:48 AM
Last edit: March 07, 2024, 05:47:46 AM by Otoh |
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I shall certainly ask Heritage about this, the problem I imagine though is that ANACS didn't take photos of the coins before it slabbed them. Heritage celebrating the $78,000 record at the top of their latest newsletter: https://coins.ha.com/heritage-auctions-newsletter/world-coin-news-another-heritage-world-record-the-highest-selling-2013-casascius-loaded-unredeemed-1-bitcoin-btc-.s?id=6465They also sold earlier this week, by private treaty, for $73,629 each on the singles and $38,314.50 on the half, when the spot price was at $62,629/BTC, before the new bitcoin ATH 2 x 1 BTC MS67 & a 0.5 BTC MS66, which had been bought in by them from the Otoh sale, ie hadn't reached the reserve which Heritage put on them back then |
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