Solution to account seller? I think

[Rikafip]

and today there are members who sell BTT accounts for months without having a single red tag from DT1 members.

Does it really matter whether account seller is tagged by DT1 or DT2 member?

I would conclude that the majority simply do not care and do not want to spend their time on such things.

Hunting account sellers is not like hunting alt accounts as all you can really do is wait for them to create account sale topic to tag them, and its not like there's load of these topics anyway.

[1714243598]

1714243598

[1714243598]

1714243598

[1714243598]

1714243598

[acroman08]

can you imagine the comedy that will unfold if two people who are pretending to be an account buyer/seller to catch an account buyer/seller accidentally talked to each other and try to expose one another 😂

I think that most of the accounts that are sold either have negative trust, natural trust related to spam, or scam in which you pay the money and will not get an account.

exactly, and I've seen a number of threads created by people complaining about being scammed when they are trying to buy an account.

[FatFork]

Someone should create a trap account that advertises itself as someone who sells forum accounts so we can once and for all mark the account buyers,

That won't accomplish anything. Anyone can create hundreds of newbie accounts and use them to buy forum accounts.

It's also foolproof too if the one who does the entrapment is smart enough to lead on the buyer to their main account which is the likely thing that's going to happen.

Even if they have a "main" account on the forum, there is no way for someone to force them to reveal it.

can you imagine the comedy that will unfold if two people who are pretending to be an account buyer/seller to catch an account buyer/seller accidentally talked to each other and try to expose one another 😂

Haha! Exactly! It would be like a game of "he said, she said" where anyone can start pretending to be a buyer or seller. Good luck figuring out who's telling the truth.

[ZAINmalik75]

I think that most of the accounts that are sold either have negative trust, natural trust related to spam, or scam in which you pay the money and will not get an account. it is difficult to say that there is active trade in selling accounts, especially since if the account is good, you can achieve +$160 per month and thus The minimum account price is supposed to be $500+, and the higher price = fewer buyers.

It is not something worth digging deeply into, and the best solution may be to tighten the conditions for joining signature campaigns, bounty campaigns, and obtaining loans.

I am still processing, how these deals would be taken place at the first place, I mean, ok, hypothetically speaking if I want to buy a account, whom I have to contact, who is the dealer, and why would I not give a red tag to that dealer and all the accounts that I can ask him to show me, so I could think for a second which one is better for me.

Is there any account trades recently caught, I don't think so, and I did not see many red trusted, or bad neutral tagged members joining the signature campaigns, and those who are joined, are the ones, that are trusted by the whole forum, like even the royse himself has 1 or 2 negative, many other reputed people have negative trust.

But those who got negative, are rarely accepted in any signature or bounty campaigns.

[GeorgeJohn]

At first you are a senior member in this forum you should have known the appropriate place to site your post, some times I became confused in some of accounts that asked questions on where to drop their post or not...in the aspect of selling account, forum did not forbids selling of accounts from my perspective but their is something involved in selling of account.

People who sells account doesn't reveal themselves that they want to sell their account because tag and neutral in their profile, the thing is that, the area I'm against of selling of account is that the original owner of the account you are interested to buy might be a developer or a programmer and it has already built its reputation comfortably with people

And it happens that the person who is coming to buy or buying the account doesn't know anything concerning developing a website or coin and programming, so handling such account that he or she knows nothing in that aspect, it will be disgusting and discouraging when you cross check the quality of the writeup...

So while people is being tag on account they bought is because  they misused the account in future and they may commit fraud with the account, because people may contact them thinking that it's rightful owner of the account whereas the account have changed hand by a scammer or spammer in the forum...so from my theory is encouraging for someone to start from scratch and build it's account instead buying another person's account.

[PX-Z]

No one would risk their main accounts when selling and buying accounts, so they usually use brand new/newbie accounts. The same time to trap sellers on what accounts are going to sold, since anyone can say that any account are currently on sale. Unless, they provide signed message that they really owned the account but i don't think they will go further than that.

[PytagoraZ]

~snip~
 Currently DT is working hard to identify buying and selling accounts, so I think the existing system is good. Let the forum take care of all this

Do you know what DT is and which DT members are "working hard" on that problem? It used to be possible to buy and sell BTT accounts without any sanctions, then people started getting red tags only if they asked if it was possible to buy a BTT account, and today there are members who sell BTT accounts for months without having a single red tag from DT1 members. I would conclude that the majority simply do not care and do not want to spend their time on such things.

Yes, I know a little about DT. Is there anything wrong about that? Or do you think that I, who is still an FM, can't read the mechanisms and how the forum works? JG, nutildah, lovesmyfamily, and others seem to have good abilities in analyzing things like that

Yes, most members don't care because they only care about the signature campaign they are involved in. Maybe if there were no signature campaigns then the forum would be clean and the ones who would survive would be members who like to discuss. So the best way to deal with buying and selling accounts, spammers, scammers, and trollers, is to remove signature and bounty campaigns. 

[philipma1957]

You think anyone who wants to buy account will reveal their main account
Knowing too well how bad it's to buy account here, well I won't argue because I don't know how smart they could be but know one thing that the only solution to this is to asked any account that was suspected to change to sign a message with a wallet they have used for at least 2 years and above, whomever that can't do that is assume that the account was bought by so doing it should be tag. Account sale is something that could be too hard to stop because anyone can decide to sell his account for another better jobs after feeling tired of the forum or doesn't want to associate themselves with here.

Yeah can you imagine me buying an account with this account, not happening ever unless my password was hacked..

At op account buying was okay years ago. Now its not okay as it allows someone to earn more at campaigns.
There will always be account sellers and there will always be account sellers.
And the smart ones won’t be caught.

[SquirrelJulietGarden]

If theymos not agree with merit selling, I don't think he will agree to legalize it.

theymos knows there will be dark markets for merit but he does not feel big problems with merit sales.

It is not good but not like a thing will destroy Bitcointalk and abuse can be handled by demerit or take the merit source position back. Merit transactions are public and merit sales, merit abuse can be seen by everyone with Bitcointalk Merit Ledger.

The current status quo seems OK. If you have to pay $20 per merit plus a risk of getting red trust, then that's a situation that doesn't concern me at all. I'm not going to lose sleep over people going to ridiculous lengths to buy merit, since only a small number of people will be willing and able to do that.

As long as merit sales are a black market, I'm happy, since that makes it far more difficult and expensive to buy merit. If that's the case, then the small volume of black-market merit trades don't themselves bother me much, and I think that it does more harm than good to get too witch-hunty about it.

Is stingers still a merit source?

Not anymore. That's clear abuse, awarding merit for political reasons rather than any idea of quality. Only because he was a source, I effectively undid those merit sends. If he had not been a merit source, I still would've blacklisted anyone who got into DT1 through that type of shenanigans.

I hadn't read into the thread deeply enough to see that stuff. Those are better arguments against the trustworthiness of H8bussesNbicycles & co., but note that the current negative-trust-ratings were sent long before that. Before February, the thread looks like politics to me.

[Helena Yu]

theymos knows there will be dark markets for merit but he does not feel big problems with merit sales.

It is not good but not like a thing will destroy Bitcointalk and abuse can be handled by demerit or take the merit source position back. Merit transactions are public and merit sales, merit abuse can be seen by everyone with Bitcointalk Merit Ledger.

So the abuse is still not handled right since we don't have demerit and stoppage of merit source?

To be honest I don't think merit source is the problem because they have a lot merit and it's fair for them to support their local boards etc. The problem is non merit sources, they easily abuse it after they get many merit from merit sources.

There's no proof if merit abuse is always merit selling and if you tag someone because they only abusing merit system, you will not become a DT member anymore which mean such action is destroy yourself.

If a DT member tags you for something stupid involving merit (ie. probably anything less than selling merit), then they're not going to be a DT member for much longer.

[shahzadafzal]

Someone should create a trap account that advertises itself as someone who sells forum accounts so we can once and for all mark the account buyers, I don't know if it's a weird solution but if we can also cull the account buyers itself then we can ultimately discourage the selling itself because if the buyers are afraid that they might be dealing with a narc then that would mean that they're going to have second-thoughts about buying an account which in turn lessens the demand which discourages sellers. It's also foolproof too if the one who does the entrapment is smart enough to lead on the buyer to their main account which is the likely thing that's going to happen.

PS. I don't know if this is the appropriate board for this so bear with me, I know how to move the topic so just tell me where.

That's not how it works

I mean first of all if someone is selling any account he won't be disclosing the original account to be sold and otherwise no one will buying it and second the one who's buying who disclose his original information for oblivious reason. So even if we create such trap won't be catching any one for sure.

Secondly, account trading issue is quite complicated. If you go after the sellers, it might stop some new accounts created just for selling, but the ones already selling might continue. If we target the buyers, it could reduce the demand, but determined sellers might still find ways to sell accounts. So, it's not a simple problem with one clear solution.

Anyway, instead if we start teaching ethics that might work faster  

[LoyceV]

I am still processing, how these deals would be taken place at the first place, I mean, ok, hypothetically speaking if I want to buy a account, whom I have to contact, who is the dealer, and why would I not give a red tag to that dealer and all the accounts that I can ask him to show me, so I could think for a second which one is better for me.

From what I've seen: the majority of account "sellers" are just scammers, sometimes with a few Newbie accounts "vouching" for them. But I've also seen at least one escrow who handled account sales, so it's still possible.
And there are of course Newbies who just PM someone asking to buy their account.

Yeah can you imagine me buying an account with this account, not happening ever unless my password was hacked..

I've also seen a post saying: "My account is for sale for 21,000,001 Bitcoin".

[Lucius]

Does it really matter whether account seller is tagged by DT1 or DT2 member?

I think that there is a clear difference between DT1 and all other levels of the DT system, because it is more than clear that my feedback does not have the same weight as the identical feedback of one of the respectable DT1 members. Their lack of interest (with some exceptions, of course) first of all encourages sellers and buyers, and creates an image of some kind of situation that can be defined as "I don't really care about it".

Hunting account sellers is not like hunting alt accounts as all you can really do is wait for them to create account sale topic to tag them, and its not like there's load of these topics anyway.

Perhaps the problem is that most DT1 members do not visit the board where such topics are found, and although it is true that there are not dozens of such topics, at least one or two new ones appear every week.

Yes, I know a little about DT. Is there anything wrong about that? Or do you think that I, who is still an FM, can't read the mechanisms and how the forum works? JG, nutildah, lovesmyfamily, and others seem to have good abilities in analyzing things like that

There is no need for any analysis, if you see that someone is selling or wants to buy a BTT account, the matter is completely clear - you are obviously mixing the fight against plagiarism and AI with what we are discussing.

Yes, most members don't care because they only care about the signature campaign they are involved in. Maybe if there were no signature campaigns then the forum would be clean and the ones who would survive would be members who like to discuss. So the best way to deal with buying and selling accounts, spammers, scammers, and trollers, is to remove signature and bounty campaigns. 

This is something that was discussed a lot, but we all know that without sig campaigns this forum would look completely different and it would probably lose a lot of members. It is an extreme measure, but it should also be emphasized that it is one of the measures on the table in case nothing else can help.

[Kemarit]

~snip~
 Currently DT is working hard to identify buying and selling accounts, so I think the existing system is good. Let the forum take care of all this

Do you know what DT is and which DT members are "working hard" on that problem? It used to be possible to buy and sell BTT accounts without any sanctions, then people started getting red tags only if they asked if it was possible to buy a BTT account, and today there are members who sell BTT accounts for months without having a single red tag from DT1 members. I would conclude that the majority simply do not care and do not want to spend their time on such things.

Yes, most likely that is the case now, seen some who still continue to sell accounts and they don't care if they are getting negative tag because it really doesn't have any effect on on them. And for most DT members, just a waste of time for them. And if one account is getting tag, comes 2 or even more accounts popping up to continue to sell.

The only solution is to outright ban account sellers, but as I have said, they will just create more accounts and willing to pay for it. And then continue what they've used to. And as long as there are account buyers, this sellers are going to stay here.

[philipma1957]

<snip>

Yes, most members don't care because they only care about the signature campaign they are involved in. Maybe if there were no signature campaigns then the forum would be clean and the ones who would survive would be members who like to discuss. So the best way to deal with buying and selling accounts, spammers, scammers, and trollers, is to remove signature and bounty campaigns. 

This is something that was discussed a lot, but we all know that without sig campaigns this forum would look completely different and it would probably lose a lot of members. It is an extreme measure, but it should also be emphasized that it is one of the measures on the table in case nothing else can help.

I used to ask for a signature holiday 1 month a year any month pick it and do it lets see how much traffic leaves the website.
I now realize theymos is far more of a smart business man then I have ever been.
the traffic and coins earned via the signature campaigns are a world wide advertisement for BTC as a business tool.
I belong to a campaign now I do not do a lot of campaigns but with my mining income down I wanted more income. So I got into a campaign.
This campaign has given away 20 btc in 50 weeks and has made 10s of thousands of posts people are earning and spending the BTC. So I am no longer in favor of my 1 month a year campaign vacation.

Not that I want crappy spammy posts. Not that I want people that have alts stealing signature money. But the brilliance of allowing signature space rentals is quite a good idea.

[Rikafip]

I think that there is a clear difference between DT1 and all other levels of the DT system, because it is more than clear that my feedback does not have the same weight as the identical feedback of one of the respectable DT1 members. Their lack of interest (with some exceptions, of course) first of all encourages sellers and buyers, and creates an image of some kind of situation that can be defined as "I don't really care about it"

While I do agree that feedback of some members has more weight (and some less due their tendency to leave all sorts of questionable feedbacks) I don't think that it has to do with DT1/DT2 status but rather with reputation of those members.

I honestly don't see how its different if account seller gets tagged by a DT1 member or DT2 member and would really like to see the example of what you are talking about. I mean, since account sale is not forbidden by forum rules, all we can do is tag them and then its up to them to decide whether they will continue selling or not.

[Dunamisx]

Someone should create a trap account that advertises itself as someone who sells forum accounts so we can once and for all mark the account buyers, I don't know if it's a weird solution but if we can also cull the account buyers itself then we can ultimately discourage the selling itself because if the buyers are afraid that they might be dealing with a narc then that would mean that they're going to have second-thoughts about buying an account which in turn lessens the demand which discourages sellers. It's also foolproof too if the one who does the entrapment is smart enough to lead on the buyer to their main account which is the likely thing that's going to happen.

PS. I don't know if this is the appropriate board for this so bear with me, I know how to move the topic so just tell me where.

If people where found in this kind of activities, then their bubbles always get caught up within a short period of time they least expect, because it will definitely show a change of hands on the account, from such you can discover from the user way of postings pattern, email used and the password reset that might have been conducted on such account, all these are possible through the help of the ninjastic threads to help in tracking the account past records, what i don't seem to understand is the reason behind doing this by some of the people.

[PytagoraZ]

Yes, I know a little about DT. Is there anything wrong about that? Or do you think that I, who is still an FM, can't read the mechanisms and how the forum works? JG, nutildah, lovesmyfamily, and others seem to have good abilities in analyzing things like that

There is no need for any analysis, if you see that someone is selling or wants to buy a BTT account, the matter is completely clear - you are obviously mixing the fight against plagiarism and AI with what we are discussing.

Unfortunately, account buying and selling transactions are not carried out on the forum. They are not that stupid and they definitely make transactions on Telegram. I saw a thread on the reputation board that buying and selling accounts can be determined by differences in language or knowledge. It is not easy to identify buying and selling accounts, but some can still be caught

Yes, most members don't care because they only care about the signature campaign they are involved in. Maybe if there were no signature campaigns then the forum would be clean and the ones who would survive would be members who like to discuss. So the best way to deal with buying and selling accounts, spammers, scammers, and trollers, is to remove signature and bounty campaigns. 

This is something that was discussed a lot, but we all know that without sig campaigns this forum would look completely different and it would probably lose a lot of members. It is an extreme measure, but it should also be emphasized that it is one of the measures on the table in case nothing else can help.

Of course half of the total members or maybe more will leave this forum. But it was a suicidal act, the signature campaign was very helpful in introducing bitcoin. From this campaign we were able to get our first bitcoin and that's where we started to become interested in bitcoin. Maybe for now many members still consider the campaign as a livelihood, but as time goes by they will hold onto their bitcoins. The more people who know about Bitcoin, the better. Of course there are always those who take advantage of circumstances to cheat, I think it happens everywhere, because the concept of idealism will forever be utopian.
The longer I write, the less I know what I'm writing about 

[rat03gopoh]

Account trading isn't prohibited, so I think there is no need to think about going to the trouble of trapping the perpetrator. Their initiative is clearly not to contribute to the forum, there is a big sign that is visible. Let them spend some of their money on useless accounts (after changing hands). They just activate their own time bomb to get caught, then do the same thing over and over again until they give up.

[Zoomic]

Account trading isn't prohibited, so I think there is no need to think about going to the trouble of trapping the perpetrator. Their initiative is clearly not to contribute to the forum, there is a big sign that is visible. Let them spend some of their money on useless accounts (after changing hands). They just activate their own time bomb to get caught, then do the same thing over and over again until they give up.

Account sells is not prohibited but it is discouraged, so it doesn't actually worth it to begin the process discussed above. It will lead to so many drama. This is because of you set up an advert pretending to buy an account and finally you discover the account seller. The accusations could be that you are a real account buyer but things went wrong and you decided to cast the whole process. I don't know if anyone is understanding me.

If accounts smoothly changes hand, there shouldn't be a problem with that but if it happens in a shady manner, the account should be tagged and that will be fine. Going extra miles to catch account buyers and sellers is not worth it.