Hong Kong regulators might allow spot ETF

[aoluain]

However, there is something mentioned in the article that implies that spot ETFs might not be as bullish as we might expect. It is mentioned that the take up on futures ETF in Hong Kong has only been modest.

In other countries, do not expect bitcoin to be bullish if their SEC approve spot bitcoin ETF, but in United States, expect the market to be bullish as we expect becuase it will first start from people fomo and also US have more than half of the worlds share of traditional market.

There are many spot etfs in many countries already this is nothing new. I think somewhere in Europe there was a bitcoin etf from maybe 5 years back.

The first was in two years ago but listed this year. So the first bitcoin spot ETF in Europe was this year.

Also this is about bitcoin spot ETF in Hong Kong.

Yes there was one in Europe announced last year and listed in August gone without
any big fanfare or craze, it was the Jacobi FT Wilshire Bitcoin ETF from this report.

https://gfmag.com/technology/europe-makes-first-spot-bitcoin-etf-available-to-trade/#:~:text=The%20Euronext%20Amsterdam%20stock%20exchange,ETF)%20in%20mid-August.

I suspect the Spot Bitcoin ETF in Hong Kong will end up being something similar,
it will end up going relatively unnoticed.

All eyes are really on the Blackrock Spot Bitcoin ETF purely because Blackrock are the
largest asset management company in the world!

[fzkto]

Every country is going to have to offer their people a Bitcoin spot ETF in the future. Not doing so would be hurting themselves financially and their future prospects. Even though Vanguard claims they never will, I’m sure they too will not be able to resist the fees and cries of their customers to bring a Bitcoin spot ETF product to market.

It seems to me that in this case China is just trying to do exactly the same as the US to share the market. If we talk about every country making a spot bitcoin etf in the future, where will so many bitcoins come from? This may indicate that the price of bitcoin will be really big and satoshis will be traded, or people's interest in bitcoin will be low.

[_BlackStar]

-snip-

It seems to me that in this case China is just trying to do exactly the same as the US to share the market. If we talk about every country making a spot bitcoin etf in the future, where will so many bitcoins come from? This may indicate that the price of bitcoin will be really big and satoshis will be traded, or people's interest in bitcoin will be low.

Bitcoin ETF will not make people's interest in bitcoin decrease - on the contrary, the interest of the public and large investors in investing in bitcoin is expected to increase rapidly. Bitcoin ETF products are considered to provide a sense of security for most investors - but the best level of security that every investor must have is having their own custody of their investment assets.

[bbc.reporter]

Seems ironic to talk about Hong Kong when its been taken over by China who had previously banned Bitcoin.  To look towards this now with some optimism is quite comedy.  China didnt keep its promises and agreements over Hong Kong remaining separate with independence in jurisdiction from their communist regime, unfortunate as this promotes decay in HK as the finance asset and trading hub it had become.   It was worth leaving alone just for that revenue benefit but communism couldn't suffer the comparison and HK was assimilated.  I got little faith in action occurring in Hong Kong now for the long term.

You are talking about politics which is quite a different apparatus from business. Similar the America, Hong Kong also has hedgefunds, institutional investors and other types of firms that might want to invest billions in the cryptospace through an investment instrument like an ETF.

Also, is Hong Kong, being one of the biggest investment capitals in the world, really falling because of the repression from Beijing? I reckon this might only be a storyline created by the Americans because Hong Kong and China's economy are presently not very good similar to much of the economies of other countries. It would be a different storyline if their economies are pumping.

[Fundamentals Of]

There are many spot etfs in many countries already this is nothing new. I think somewhere in Europe there was a bitcoin etf from maybe 5 years back.

USA and the sec is the only country pretty much that refuses to launch one and we don’t know why. Look at how many stocks go bankrupt like Bed bath and beyond and they head to $0 while they think that bitcoin network might stall and the etf will go to $0, highly unlikely.

In many countries? How many and what are these countries? I am quite certain that there are not many countries offering spot ETFs for bitcoin or other cryptocoins. Also, if it is a spot ETF in a developing country with a small market, we can also be quite certain that it will not have effect on the whole market.

On Bed Bath and Beyond, you cannot compare hehehe. I do not know the story but the stock goes to 0 because the company behind the stock went bankrupt and if a company goes bankrupt, they are ordered to delist their stock from the stock market.

In an case, back on topic, can the data on the take up on futures ETF be used as precedent for how much the take might be for the spot ETF?

More than 1 is many. And I think Bitcoin spot ETFs are already offered in certain countries like USA's neighbor Canada, and in Switzerland and Germany in Europe, in Brazil in South America, and in Australia as well, and other countries in the whole world. And these are developed countries as well.

Futures ETF cannot be used as a precedent because it doesn't offer 100% exposure to Bitcoin. Spot ETFs are backed by Bitcoin itself. That's the kind of exposure offered by a Bitcoin spot ETF. And also futures are expensive to maintain compared to spot ETF.

The numbers in countries where both Bitcoin futures and spot ETFs are available are proof that spot ETF is much more in demand than futures.

[YUriy1991]

All eyes are really on the Blackrock Spot Bitcoin ETF purely because Blackrock are the
largest asset management company in the world!

And most people expect the SEC to agree and on the other hand also compare the performance of the financial industry in the past and the results BTC shows that this will be the safest and smartest investment in the future and the way is to buy bitcoin itself. Bitcoin is basically a form of currency like USD and EUR, only it doesn't have a physical form and is instead stored online on a computer. BTW, we'll see in January 2024 whether it will be accepted or there will be another delay by the SEC like before.

[kro55]

All eyes are really on the Blackrock Spot Bitcoin ETF purely because Blackrock are the
largest asset management company in the world!

And most people expect the SEC to agree and on the other hand also compare the performance of the financial industry in the past and the results BTC shows that this will be the safest and smartest investment in the future and the way is to buy bitcoin itself. Bitcoin is basically a form of currency like USD and EUR, only it doesn't have a physical form and is instead stored online on a computer. BTW, we'll see in January 2024 whether it will be accepted or there will be another delay by the SEC like before.

There are many differences between bitcoin and EUR and USD. Besides the tangible and intangible differences, bitcoin is a decentralized currency, with a limited supply...it is completely different from the fiat money that governments are creating. Furthermore, bitcoin is considered an asset rather than a currency so I think it is more appropriate to compare it with gold or other financial markets than with USD and EUR.

Basically, there are already many bitcoin ETFs in other countries but people are still waiting for an ETF from the SEC because the US is the largest financial market as well as the world financial center. I believe the SEC will have to approve ETFs but they need a better time to make that declaration and the best time could be the Bitcoin halving event.

[aoluain]

All eyes are really on the Blackrock Spot Bitcoin ETF purely because Blackrock are the
largest asset management company in the world!

And most people expect the SEC to agree and on the other hand also compare the performance of the financial industry in the past and the results BTC shows that this will be the safest and smartest investment in the future and the way is to buy bitcoin itself. Bitcoin is basically a form of currency like USD and EUR, only it doesn't have a physical form and is instead stored online on a computer. BTW, we'll see in January 2024 whether it will be accepted or there will be another delay by the SEC like before.

There are many differences between bitcoin and EUR and USD. Besides the tangible and intangible differences, bitcoin is a decentralized currency, with a limited supply...it is completely different from the fiat money that governments are creating. Furthermore, bitcoin is considered an asset rather than a currency so I think it is more appropriate to compare it with gold or other financial markets than with USD and EUR.

Basically, there are already many bitcoin ETFs in other countries but people are still waiting for an ETF from the SEC because the US is the largest financial market as well as the world financial center. I believe the SEC will have to approve ETFs but they need a better time to make that declaration and the best time could be the Bitcoin halving event.

Well this move by the Hong Kong regulators for a spot ETF might just prompt an earlier
than expected approval of the queue of spot ETF's by the SEC?

Hong Kong is still Asia's largest financial centre to maybe the SEC might feel that HK
poses a threat and potentially a lot of investors would migrate to a HK based spot
Bitcoin ETF, is that a viable argument I wonder?

[Woodie]

Hong Kong getting on board is good news that can service the Asian market and a win for Bitcoin whichever way we choose to look at this, but just as the financial markets seniority... what will carry the most weight is having the USA markets that can bring in the big money and also easily influence other countries to do the same, otherwise having HK on board is a win for BTC.

However, there is something mentioned in the article that implies that spot ETFs might not be as bullish as we might expect. It is mentioned that the take up on futures ETF in Hong Kong has only been modest. I assume the take up on futures ETF in America has also only been modest?

That's unexpected, could this mean these spot ETFs are just overhyped and don't carry much of an impact on the markets in terms of BTC demand???

[Minor Miner]

However, there is something mentioned in the article that implies that spot ETFs might not be as bullish as we might expect. It is mentioned that the take up on futures ETF in Hong Kong has only been modest. I assume the take up on futures ETF in America has also only been modest?

That's unexpected, could this mean these spot ETFs are just overhyped and don't carry much of an impact on the markets in terms of BTC demand???

Hong Kong is neither a major power nor a large enough financial market to impact world markets, but the US is completely different so the ETFs of these two countries will have different impacts on bitcoin. If you have doubts about whether ETFs really have a positive impact on bitcoin prices, you can also experience for yourself what has happened in the past days. Isn't the market very excited and happy about the news that the SEC is ready to approve ETFs? That suggests the impact of ETFs could be much larger than we thought.

[blckhawk]

Every country is going to have to offer their people a Bitcoin spot ETF in the future. Not doing so would be hurting themselves financially and their future prospects. Even though Vanguard claims they never will, I’m sure they too will not be able to resist the fees and cries of their customers to bring a Bitcoin spot ETF product to market.

I am sure that is going to happen but the companies that should be asking people to get into this would definitely not try to sell it to the people, just like they have been doing for a long time now with their other investment ventures or schemes, they won't advertise it. I have learned too late that you can earn while your money is in your bank account by subscribing to a investment where you and other people that uses the bank gives the money to some sort of investment manager and you all collectively own a stock but you don't manage but you all get a percentage when it goes up and you get losses too.

[goldkingcoiner]

@bittraffic. The argument is it is overhyped because the pump has occured before there was an approval and this might be something similar to a sell the news occurrence if it is approved.

However, agreed. Bitcoin will skyrocket later after approval when ETF issuers begin twapping hehehe.

Also, it appears Ethereum might also get a spot ETF.



BlackRock, one of the world’s biggest asset managers, officially filed its Spot Ethereum ETF with Nasdaq today. The company’s plan was revealed in a filing by the U.S. exchange where BlackRock will seek to list the product.

Source https://watcher.guru/news/blackrock-officially-files-spot-ethereum-etf-application

Unlike Bitcoin, Ethereum and its subsequent tokens have been considered many times to be unregistered securities in the past, by the SEC. So while I am quite enthusiastic about Bitcoin getting an ETF, I am not quite as sure about Ethereum. As far as I remember, Bitcoin has never been accused by the SEC of being an unregistered security. I think we need to see first, whether or not Bitcoin will get its own ETF in the United States soon. There still very much is the chance that the filing will be blockaded by pure bureaucracy or other ridiculous reasons. But it is coming, sooner or later, thats for sure.

[fzkto]

-snip-

It seems to me that in this case China is just trying to do exactly the same as the US to share the market. If we talk about every country making a spot bitcoin etf in the future, where will so many bitcoins come from? This may indicate that the price of bitcoin will be really big and satoshis will be traded, or people's interest in bitcoin will be low.

Bitcoin ETF will not make people's interest in bitcoin decrease - on the contrary, the interest of the public and large investors in investing in bitcoin is expected to increase rapidly. Bitcoin ETF products are considered to provide a sense of security for most investors - but the best level of security that every investor must have is having their own custody of their investment assets.

Then it's not clear to me why investors can't buy bitcoins now, for example on the Binance exchange? Let's remember that Tesla had some bitcoin that they bought somewhere. Or Microstrategy also buy bitcoin all the time. There is nothing stopping them from doing so without a spot etf.

[sana54210]

there was one in Europe announced last year and listed in August gone without
any big fanfare or craze, it was the Jacobi FT Wilshire Bitcoin ETF from this report.

https://gfmag.com/technology/europe-makes-first-spot-bitcoin-etf-available-to-trade/#:~:text=The%20Euronext%20Amsterdam%20stock%20exchange,ETF)%20in%20mid-August.

I suspect the Spot Bitcoin ETF in Hong Kong will end up being something similar,
it will end up going relatively unnoticed.

All eyes are really on the Blackrock Spot Bitcoin ETF purely because Blackrock are the
largest asset management company in the world!

I mean it's more about the fact that there won't be all that much money invested into it. All those "oh my god blackrock EFT might get accepted!!!" news are not happy because they will get an ETF, they don't even care, most of them are buying bitcoin themselves anyway, they do not need ETF at all. So why are they getting excited about that one, but not about this one? Simply because the amount of money that could go into it.

If this Hong Kong ETF deal gets accepted, do you think billions of dollars will fly into crypto? Of course not, but if Blackrock one gets accepted, that might happen. That is the difference maker and that is why people do get excited about it, which makes sense if you ask me. I think that's an important distinction, and that is why it is not the ETF they are excited about, it is the money that will go into bitcoin that they are super excited about. That should be the most important part, how much money it will help us get.

[bbc.reporter]

There are many spot etfs in many countries already this is nothing new. I think somewhere in Europe there was a bitcoin etf from maybe 5 years back.

USA and the sec is the only country pretty much that refuses to launch one and we don’t know why. Look at how many stocks go bankrupt like Bed bath and beyond and they head to $0 while they think that bitcoin network might stall and the etf will go to $0, highly unlikely.

In many countries? How many and what are these countries? I am quite certain that there are not many countries offering spot ETFs for bitcoin or other cryptocoins. Also, if it is a spot ETF in a developing country with a small market, we can also be quite certain that it will not have effect on the whole market.

On Bed Bath and Beyond, you cannot compare hehehe. I do not know the story but the stock goes to 0 because the company behind the stock went bankrupt and if a company goes bankrupt, they are ordered to delist their stock from the stock market.

In an case, back on topic, can the data on the take up on futures ETF be used as precedent for how much the take might be for the spot ETF?

More than 1 is many. And I think Bitcoin spot ETFs are already offered in certain countries like USA's neighbor Canada, and in Switzerland and Germany in Europe, in Brazil in South America, and in Australia as well, and other countries in the whole world. And these are developed countries as well.

Futures ETF cannot be used as a precedent because it doesn't offer 100% exposure to Bitcoin. Spot ETFs are backed by Bitcoin itself. That's the kind of exposure offered by a Bitcoin spot ETF. And also futures are expensive to maintain compared to spot ETF.

The numbers in countries where both Bitcoin futures and spot ETFs are available are proof that spot ETF is much more in demand than futures.

I very much disagree, I am sorry. More than 1 and less than 7 is a few, 7 or 8 is several, more than 10 is what I would consider many. However, I was only asking. If there are really more than 10 countries that have issued an ETF then there many and it might make for the argument that the take up might be low.

In any case, @Lucius made a good argument that the take up was low because none of those that issued the ETF were from Blackrock hehehehe.

[kro55]

All eyes are really on the Blackrock Spot Bitcoin ETF purely because Blackrock are the
largest asset management company in the world!

And most people expect the SEC to agree and on the other hand also compare the performance of the financial industry in the past and the results BTC shows that this will be the safest and smartest investment in the future and the way is to buy bitcoin itself. Bitcoin is basically a form of currency like USD and EUR, only it doesn't have a physical form and is instead stored online on a computer. BTW, we'll see in January 2024 whether it will be accepted or there will be another delay by the SEC like before.

There are many differences between bitcoin and EUR and USD. Besides the tangible and intangible differences, bitcoin is a decentralized currency, with a limited supply...it is completely different from the fiat money that governments are creating. Furthermore, bitcoin is considered an asset rather than a currency so I think it is more appropriate to compare it with gold or other financial markets than with USD and EUR.

Basically, there are already many bitcoin ETFs in other countries but people are still waiting for an ETF from the SEC because the US is the largest financial market as well as the world financial center. I believe the SEC will have to approve ETFs but they need a better time to make that declaration and the best time could be the Bitcoin halving event.

Well this move by the Hong Kong regulators for a spot ETF might just prompt an earlier
than expected approval of the queue of spot ETF's by the SEC?

Hong Kong is still Asia's largest financial centre to maybe the SEC might feel that HK
poses a threat and potentially a lot of investors would migrate to a HK based spot
Bitcoin ETF, is that a viable argument I wonder?

I believe that no market or financial authority is large enough to put pressure on the SEC and the US financial markets. As far as I know, the US financial market accounts for more than 45% of the entire world financial market, do you think they will need and care about what the Asian and European markets are doing? Most of the world's largest exchanges and financial institutions are concentrated in the US, do you think large institutions will leave the US market and move to HK? Large institutions like Blackrock, Grayscale and many others, why don't they choose other markets, but why are they willing to wait for SEC approval even when the SEC has repeatedly rejected their ETF proposals?

[bittraffic]

All eyes are really on the Blackrock Spot Bitcoin ETF purely because Blackrock are the
largest asset management company in the world!

And most people expect the SEC to agree and on the other hand also compare the performance of the financial industry in the past and the results BTC shows that this will be the safest and smartest investment in the future and the way is to buy bitcoin itself. Bitcoin is basically a form of currency like USD and EUR, only it doesn't have a physical form and is instead stored online on a computer. BTW, we'll see in January 2024 whether it will be accepted or there will be another delay by the SEC like before.

There are many differences between bitcoin and EUR and USD. Besides the tangible and intangible differences, bitcoin is a decentralized currency, with a limited supply...it is completely different from the fiat money that governments are creating. Furthermore, bitcoin is considered an asset rather than a currency so I think it is more appropriate to compare it with gold or other financial markets than with USD and EUR.

Basically, there are already many bitcoin ETFs in other countries but people are still waiting for an ETF from the SEC because the US is the largest financial market as well as the world financial center. I believe the SEC will have to approve ETFs but they need a better time to make that declaration and the best time could be the Bitcoin halving event.

Well this move by the Hong Kong regulators for a spot ETF might just prompt an earlier
than expected approval of the queue of spot ETF's by the SEC?

Hong Kong is still Asia's largest financial centre to maybe the SEC might feel that HK
poses a threat and potentially a lot of investors would migrate to a HK based spot
Bitcoin ETF, is that a viable argument I wonder?

I believe that no market or financial authority is large enough to put pressure on the SEC and the US financial markets. As far as I know, the US financial market accounts for more than 45% of the entire world financial market, do you think they will need and care about what the Asian and European markets are doing? Most of the world's largest exchanges and financial institutions are concentrated in the US, do you think large institutions will leave the US market and move to HK? Large institutions like Blackrock, Grayscale and many others, why don't they choose other markets, but why are they willing to wait for SEC approval even when the SEC has repeatedly rejected their ETF proposals?

Because is Blackrock that is filing the ETF. Blackrock is bigger than SEC, it literally controls the money of the entire US market. As you can see more and more politicians  grilling SEC Gensler for not approving ETF to which Gensler already changed his tune.

Eventually ETFs will be approved, it may not be this Friday but maybe next year. If SEC doesn't approved then it equates to pissing institutions and it doesn't need SEC to move to other country where they don't have jurisdiction.

[jaberwock]

Every country is going to have to offer their people a Bitcoin spot ETF in the future. Not doing so would be hurting themselves financially and their future prospects. Even though Vanguard claims they never will, I’m sure they too will not be able to resist the fees and cries of their customers to bring a Bitcoin spot ETF product to market.

I am sure that is going to happen but the companies that should be asking people to get into this would definitely not try to sell it to the people, just like they have been doing for a long time now with their other investment ventures or schemes, they won't advertise it. I have learned too late that you can earn while your money is in your bank account by subscribing to a investment where you and other people that uses the bank gives the money to some sort of investment manager and you all collectively own a stock but you don't manage but you all get a percentage when it goes up and you get losses too.

Oh really? Hmm, that's interesting. Didn't know it yet, but thanks for letting me . They are the real business man so they know what works better for them even though we think it's a weird move and we think they can earn better if they allow us to invest on them as early as possible.

Yes, it is possible to earn money by keeping money in the bank, other than what you have said there but for us to be sure we better inquire it to them because I think not all banks has this feature. The one you are talking there might be sound interesting to some but for me, not really. For someone like me who grow up with crypto, I follow the principles of not my keys not my coins.

[dansus021]

USA and the sec is the only country pretty much that refuses to launch one and we don’t know why. Look at how many stocks go bankrupt like Bed bath and beyond and they head to $0 while they think that bitcoin network might stall and the etf will go to $0, highly unlikely.

as far that I know
Usa has its version of ETF but I is in form of futures contract the SEC is still refuse the spot bitcoin etf https://www.cnbc.com/2023/11/13/spot-bitcoin-etf-approval-is-approaching-experts-say-what-to-know.html

the other country usually follow the us but if hongkrong approved the US might lose the game 

[YUriy1991]

either US SEC or Hong Kong, investors will anticipate the price to shoot to the moon when ETF is approved. it's just a matter of when it will be because they seem to be making us all wait til the hype is gone and we lost patience.

Yes. Bitcoin ETFs are next and the SEC is always in the game. So, the discussion is whether the SEC should give the green light? because we know Bitcoin represents more than half of the total cryptocurrency market capitalization