~85% of money doesn't exist

[alani123]

I was looking at some statistics about FIAT money, taking the European Union's Euro as an example.

When comparing physical money, i.e., banknotes and coins, bank deposits, a stark difference can be noticed.

physical Euro money:
~1.5 Trillion
Source: https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/banknotes/html/index.en.html

All while the Euros in bank accounts peaked at a total of 11.7 trillion, now 10.5 trillion
Source: https://data.ecb.europa.eu/data/datasets/BSI/BSI.M.U2.Y.V.M10.X.1.U2.2300.Z01.E

What does this mean? There's undeniable proof that central banks know with confidence that most of the money in existence isn't destined for usage by real flesh and bone humans.
It's printed specifically to be used by governments, banks and mega corporations, that will never need to withdraw it from an ATM like a real person would.
Central banks don't even have to "print" money anymore if they want to inflate the monetary supply. They can just add more digits to a bank account.
Of course, increasing the monetary supply results in us, individual people, having to face higher prices which means our money is worth less.

Many of bitcoin's detractors will often say that it's held by too few people. Well, look at "actual money" then. 85% of it is completely unaccounted for.
Keep this in mind next time someone says anything about bitcoin.

[Don Pedro Dinero]

Why do you think there are more and more limits on the use of cash, especially in Europe, and a move towards CBDCs? The fact that you have the possibility of withdrawing physical money from the bank can dismantle the ponzi scheme with bank runs. But as soon as the physical money disappears and only digits remain, they can continue to inflate the scheme as they please, as well as manipulating the use of the money with CBDCs.

That is why I think that in this forum, apart from raising awareness of the use of bitcoin with privacy, we should use cash in our daily lives as much as possible.

[coupable]

It is a very fragile system run by corrupt leaders.  It is enough for everyone to withdraw their savings on the same date from their bank accounts for the corruption of this system to be discovered.  Here I am talking about any banking system in any country because all fiat currencies are minted without a gold reserve cover or are secured with a currency that is not secured by a gold reserve cover.  It is a hellish, never-ending cycle, and its evolving interconnectedness is what makes it difficult to deal with it as a problem.
This is the biggest factor that supported the prosperity of cryptocurrencies, especially Bitcoin, which is considered the safest among trading assets.

[Vispilio]

That is in perfect congruence with the nature of fiat money, somehow the complete worthlessness of fiat escapes the cognition of the modern human, during no part of their education a citizen is presented with a critical understanding of monetary theory and the banking system,

and most people don't bother to investigate it comprehensively on their own; thus a modern form of slavery where governments can effectively decimate the hard earned labor of all their citizens by printing exponential amounts of money at will persists...

[Gozie51]

People don't bother to hodl cash anymore and I mean individual not government or parastatals. The ease of mobile transactions is making even fiat come in a strong competition with bitcoin. That is a reason deduced for countries that feel the threat of their currency that has suffered inflation and in trying to make situation less critical, there came the creation of digital phase of fiat (CBDC). But hodling bitcoin and it privacy has become more popular than we have thought of, at least you are thinking of more value than reduced value over the years.

[mindrust]

I was looking at some statistics about FIAT money, taking the European Union's Euro as an example.

When comparing physical money, i.e., banknotes and coins, bank deposits, a stark difference can be noticed.

physical Euro money:
~1.5 Trillion
Source: https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/banknotes/html/index.en.html

All while the Euros in bank accounts peaked at a total of 11.7 trillion, now 10.5 trillion
Source: https://data.ecb.europa.eu/data/datasets/BSI/BSI.M.U2.Y.V.M10.X.1.U2.2300.Z01.E

What does this mean? There's undeniable proof that central banks know with confidence that most of the money in existence isn't destined for usage by real flesh and bone humans.
It's printed specifically to be used by governments, banks and mega corporations, that will never need to withdraw it from an ATM like a real person would.
Central banks don't even have to "print" money anymore if they want to inflate the monetary supply. They can just add more digits to a bank account.
Of course, increasing the monetary supply results in us, individual people, having to face higher prices which means our money is worth less.

Many of bitcoin's detractors will often say that it's held by too few people. Well, look at "actual money" then. 85% of it is completely unaccounted for.
Keep this in mind next time someone says anything about bitcoin.

I read it a while ago that the total money supply is enough to buy the whole world (I mean everything/every asset and everybody that exists in the world currently)  more than 10 times over. Your post confirms this information. It is out of hand so badly now they don't really know what do to anymore. If they stop printing, people will lose their jobs. If they print more, the inflation will rise even more.

This is more like about being honest but then there is another problem emerges. If "Central Bank A" does its job honestly, then the other cunt "Central Bank B" will print money out of thin air to cover its ass. In the end being honest equals to being stupid in a game where everybody is a crook.

It is a race to the bottom and we are not there yet. What comes after trillion?

Wake me up when the US national debt becomes a quadrillion USD.

[NeuroticFish]

Of course, increasing the monetary supply results in us, individual people, having to face higher prices which means our money is worth less.

Keep in mind that fiat money is actually central banks' IOUs.

By knowing that, in my eyes all those numbers actually don't mean much: a country (or entity) abcd can make as many trillions of xyz coin as they wish as long as it doesn't affect too much the international relations (eg EU countries usually have an agreed max inflation allowed/politically discussed) or the population doesn't start riots because xyz worth today much less than yesterday, hence they actually see they are being stolen from.

All the rest we see is complicated operations to hide from the common plebs that they are trying to "create value" out of thin air... by actually stealing that value from everybody involved in using those IOUs.

And yes, I've chosen the name xyz for the currency to not fool everybody about its "value" or "price". So when one uses a country's currency, he actually (blindly or even unwillingly) must trust that country's central bank that it will not be eroding (stealing) too much of the initial (at the point of acquisition) value of the currency.

Keep this in mind next time someone says anything about bitcoin.

Bitcoin, apart of a great tech and a great investment for those who go on that route, it's also something that has opened the eyes of many about what a huge fraud the fiat money is.
Keep that in mind next time... 

[avikz]

Unfortunately what op is saying is true! That's how the modern economic system works. Physical money isn't required by the government. Physical money is only required by the common people like you and I. But when it comes to government, they use paper bonds and Bank guarantees. It is a simple piece of paper that guarantees the transfer of value from 1 entity to another. That's how literally it works everywhere in the world.

It is not a matter of big concern because the value of your Fiat money is guaranteed by your government. So it is not required to have 100% of fiat money printed and ready to be used.

[Lamkuthang]

It is a very fragile system run by corrupt leaders.  It is enough for everyone to withdraw their savings on the same date from their bank accounts for the corruption of this system to be discovered.  Here I am talking about any banking system in any country because all fiat currencies are minted without a gold reserve cover or are secured with a currency that is not secured by a gold reserve cover.  It is a hellish, never-ending cycle, and its evolving interconnectedness is what makes it difficult to deal with it as a problem.
This is the biggest factor that supported the prosperity of cryptocurrencies, especially Bitcoin, which is considered the safest among trading assets.

And that is the reality why the government and its institutions are crazy about printing as they please and peacocks also know that it risks causing deflation and loss of the value of money and BTC is a Bitcoin payment system that is predicted to persist over time as wider acceptance for the cryptocurrency continues to grow.

[Findingnemo]

Physical money or money that is available only in numbers as in bank accounts doesn't make any difference at all, this is what the centralization will do and this is what governments hide from people to teach for generations.

BTC may not be perfect like slow transactions but it's completely decentralized and the value is determined by the demand and supply and it became possible due to the limited supply of 21 million bitcoins only no matter what. People who understand this will realize the importance of the existence of bitcoin over the investment/returns perspective.

[coupable]

It is a very fragile system run by corrupt leaders.  It is enough for everyone to withdraw their savings on the same date from their bank accounts for the corruption of this system to be discovered.  Here I am talking about any banking system in any country because all fiat currencies are minted without a gold reserve cover or are secured with a currency that is not secured by a gold reserve cover.  It is a hellish, never-ending cycle, and its evolving interconnectedness is what makes it difficult to deal with it as a problem.
This is the biggest factor that supported the prosperity of cryptocurrencies, especially Bitcoin, which is considered the safest among trading assets.

And that is the reality why the government and its institutions are crazy about printing as they please and peacocks also know that it risks causing deflation and loss of the value of money and BTC is a Bitcoin payment system that is predicted to persist over time as wider acceptance for the cryptocurrency continues to grow.

When economies go through crises, rulers resort to printing money without a backing of gold in the hope that the currency will be revived later after the crisis is overcome.  The problem is that the crisis is not overcome and governments resort to printing money again in the same formula.  Almost all central banks do this, and therefore they all suffer from inflation crises.  There are many examples in which this policy led to major problems, such as Venezuela, where the currency completely lost its value.  Currently, Lebanon, Tanzania, and Venezuela are considered among the worst examples that could happen to any emerging economy.

[franky1]

I was looking at some statistics about FIAT money, taking the European Union's Euro as an example.

When comparing physical money, i.e., banknotes and coins, bank deposits, a stark difference can be noticed.

physical Euro money:
~1.5 Trillion
Source: https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/banknotes/html/index.en.html

All while the Euros in bank accounts peaked at a total of 11.7 trillion, now 10.5 trillion
Source: https://data.ecb.europa.eu/data/datasets/BSI/BSI.M.U2.Y.V.M10.X.1.U2.2300.Z01.E

What does this mean? There's undeniable proof that central banks know with confidence that most of the money in existence isn't destined for usage by real flesh and bone humans.
It's printed specifically to be used by governments, banks and mega corporations, that will never need to withdraw it from an ATM like a real person would.

when someone deposits cash into a bank. that bank sends it away to be burned.

the bank needs to keep a daily allowance of upto EU500 per account ready to access (ATM and cashtellers) per day
which they send active requests to the mint to print and deliver to refill atms when people withdraw from the ATM.
this process is not the inflation "print" its just the 'burn one: print one'.. like for like to keep banknotes clean/uptodate.


which when someone withdraws via ATM... the 500 digital amount decreases(on customers viewing side) to pay for the 500cash tomorrow which the person took out of the ATM today for the action of requesting 500.. thus the atm needs to be refilled.

the amount of cash in banks(ATM's/cash tellers) is not the $1.5trill but more closer to $400billlion the other $1.1trillion is in separate businesses cash tills, safes, peoples pockets etc

lets say a bank had (for simplicity) 1 customer
average savings 7400 each

cash in hand 7400. deposits it. 7400 cash burned. 7400 bank account balanced. bank then buys 500 fresh notes to cover that customers ATM withdrawal limit
if the customer takes 500 cash tomorrow the bank buys another 500 to refill ATM for next day
the 500 bank balance isnt exactly deleted, it goes to the mint to buy fresh banknotes at face value to refill the ATM for what went out of the ATM
once printed the mint(treasury) is only allowed to keep a few percent of the amount paid to print notes

banks dont keep citizens full bank savings amount in the bank. they dont need to.. they just hold 5-8% of bank balance for withdrawals

[alani123]

Well the worrying realization is to see how much of the money out there has never actually been printed.
Yes, in theory any bank could send  a request to the mint to print the remaining trillions that have never been printed.

But in reality that has never happened. Which goes to show that banks remain confident in their fractional reserve system. And also, who this system supports most, which is whoever or whatever holds the largest of deposits.

[tjtonmoy]

Printed money is worthless piece of paper. Just because the people in power decides to give it a value, it gets value. The government does not need to print more money to make its value go up or down. They can just decide on their own and as civilians, we can't do anything but to accept it or protest against it. If we go to protest against it, The government in power might fall. They don't want to lose that power and for that they do it in a way so that they can still have the power and manipulate the civilians.

My point is, if the value is gone and it is decided by the government, then not only 85% but the 100% of the money will become useless and there will be no existence. Just because those who are in power are less in numbers, they are afraid to lose their power. That's why they show all these formalities of printing money and other causes for printing money. But in reality they are just manipulating us.

[franky1]

Well the worrying realization is to see how much of the money out there has never actually been printed.
Yes, in theory any bank could send  a request to the mint to print the remaining trillions that have never been printed.

when you realise paper money is not actually yours, you just get to hold it and use it..  its actually a patented product of the banks. which they could at their own whim take out of circulation or declare certain serial number ranges as not deposit-able/redeemable for new bank notes/currency.. you soon see paper money doesnt have the "property" "ownership" you think it does

yes they have better promises to cater to deposits and honour cash legitimacy of trade. announce with lengthy grace periods to not to stop circulation or redemption easily.. but they can.

cash is not "yours".. yes you bearer it (hold it) but it not your property. that cash can devalue or go out of circulation out of your wishes, desires, control, power.

[panganib999]

Money is debt as what they say. Most of the money that was in here, is most likely coming from the fact that they are literally made from debt and from loans. Didn't we get an expose a few years ago talking about how the total debt in the planet rose up to 10 trillion, a laughable amount compared to the fact that the total money that's in circulation (meaning money that is literally within the system and is being used by the people) is literally just well under 4 trillion dollars.

This is just embarrassing in some degree, but at the same time it's an eye opener to many, gives you an unadulterated perspective as to how money is really being made in this planet.

[Yamane_Keto]

It is not of unknown origin, but it may be generated from unreal money, such as loan interest, bonds, and overdraft printing, all of which lead to an increase in the total money more than the supply, which makes the money supply a lower value because we can spend money without the need for it to be cash. Banking applications and banking services allow all This is done quickly and you can pay instead of having to carry a lot of cash.

Crazy interest rates and printing without a monetary cover make the market more trust-based than a numbers-based economy

[Kakmakr]

This has been my argument with people for a long time... they will say things like "Bitcoin is just numbers on a Blockchain" and I will agree with them, but what is the numbers in your Bank account and those numbers in the Banks centralized database. 

The major difference between Fiat and Bitcoin is this.... Bitcoin has a fixed number of bitcoins VS Fiat money that are printed like toilet paper by Centralized Banks or Fractional reserve banking practices.

[philipma1957]

I was looking at some statistics about FIAT money, taking the European Union's Euro as an example.

When comparing physical money, i.e., banknotes and coins, bank deposits, a stark difference can be noticed.

physical Euro money:
~1.5 Trillion
Source: https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/banknotes/html/index.en.html

All while the Euros in bank accounts peaked at a total of 11.7 trillion, now 10.5 trillion
Source: https://data.ecb.europa.eu/data/datasets/BSI/BSI.M.U2.Y.V.M10.X.1.U2.2300.Z01.E

What does this mean? There's undeniable proof that central banks know with confidence that most of the money in existence isn't destined for usage by real flesh and bone humans.
It's printed specifically to be used by governments, banks and mega corporations, that will never need to withdraw it from an ATM like a real person would.
Central banks don't even have to "print" money anymore if they want to inflate the monetary supply. They can just add more digits to a bank account.
Of course, increasing the monetary supply results in us, individual people, having to face higher prices which means our money is worth less.

Many of bitcoin's detractors will often say that it's held by too few people. Well, look at "actual money" then. 85% of it is completely unaccounted for.
Keep this in mind next time someone says anything about bitcoin.

Well I guess that is one way to look at it. It is an interesting way to look at it. Lots of times banks ran out of cash so at worst you are part right.

[adaseb]

I heard about this also and I am not surprised. Isn’t this called something like M1 or M2 supply. Basically not the total supply of the currency but the currency out in circulation.

As we get more digital there is less and less demand for cash. And this is why this number will get lower and lower every year. Most people these days pay by credit card or Apple Pay and haven’t touched cash in an entire year pretty much.