Is 1miau fit for DT?

[1miau]

After reading this I want to be up front and sat that I decided to ~ both of you for the time being. It's been 3 days and 5 pages of back n forth drama between you 2 with noone backing down or trying to come to a suitable outcome and end the drama. Both of you just seem intent on proving your points without resolving anything.

Thanks for the feedback, yahoo62278.

I do not dislike either of you, nor do I want to see this continue. IMO DT needs to be more rational and open to change as well as level headed and fair. Neither of you 2 are being this right now. Just a bunch of i'm right, no i'm right bs.

I hope you guys work it out at some point, but that's not looking like it'll happen. Might be time to ignore each other and go on with life.

DT needs to be more rational that's right. I'm open to listen to the community if mikeywith is willing to do the same.
As DT is a decentralized community feedback system, I believe we should listen to the call of the community.
I think you are a long time DT member and believe your feedback can help here to get this solved, move on and dedicate our time to more important things.
As said before I'm willing to accept any outcome DT will conclude.

So, what's your approach to solve the issue?
I'm willing to give it a try and look how we can come together.

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[yahoo62278]

After reading this I want to be up front and sat that I decided to ~ both of you for the time being. It's been 3 days and 5 pages of back n forth drama between you 2 with noone backing down or trying to come to a suitable outcome and end the drama. Both of you just seem intent on proving your points without resolving anything.

Thanks for the feedback, yahoo62278.

I do not dislike either of you, nor do I want to see this continue. IMO DT needs to be more rational and open to change as well as level headed and fair. Neither of you 2 are being this right now. Just a bunch of i'm right, no i'm right bs.

I hope you guys work it out at some point, but that's not looking like it'll happen. Might be time to ignore each other and go on with life.

DT needs to be more rational that's right. I'm open to listen to the community if mikeywith is willing to do the same.
As DT is a decentralized community feedback system, I believe we should listen to the call of the community.
I think you are a long time DT member and believe your feedback can help here to get this solved, move on and dedicate our time to more important things.
As said before I'm willing to accept any outcome DT will conclude.

So, what's your approach to solve the issue?
I'm willing to give it a try and look how we can come together.

I cannot really say what will end the dispute man. You're not budging and neither is he. Everything that needed to be said was said day 1 IMO between you 2. Having a beer and hashing it out was mentioned and declined. Talking isn't getting anywhere as it just keeps piling up. I get it, you are accused and want to defend your position and he thinks you are in the wrong and wants you to realize it. It's hard to move people from their opinion sometimes. He has brought awareness and people will keep an eye on you no matter what for a bit and see if you are continuing on the path you're being accused of IMO.

The community has 5 pages of stuff to read and decipher. If they want to ~ then they will. If they don't they won't. Ignore button seems like the best thing for you 2 at the moment and let each other have some time to think and reflect.

[mikeywith]

So, what's your approach to solve the issue?
I'm willing to give it a try and look how we can come together.

Will you delete all the politics-related feedback you left on other members (both negative and neutral) and refrain from doing it again? it's all that simple, the 3-day conversation could have ended in 5 minutes if you would just agree to not let your political opinion affect your DT actions, I am not sure what other magical ways you expect from yahoo or anyone else to propose, the only other way is for them to publically state they are completely fine with using the trust system in politics and religion based drama, which I also gladly accept.

The third option that I would love not to go to would be to leave everything as is, both of us stop posting here, and we let the community say/do whatever they want with this topic, if they think it should vanish, they would just ignore it and it would go down the drain of page 100 or so, and if they think it should stay (either to express thier opinion against me or yourself, or to curse the two of us) then it will stay, and while that happens I promise that I will not under any circumstances post anything in this thread, and so will you.

So there you go, the ball's in your court, I will not decide how this topic ends, it's either you end it, or we wait for a few DT members to explicitly state that ( it's perfectly fine to leave neutral and negative feedback for anything politics), or we let the community decide the position of this topic, page 1 or page 100.

[1miau]

So, what's your approach to solve the issue?
I'm willing to give it a try and look how we can come together.

Will you delete all the politics-related feedback you left on other members (both negative and neutral) and refrain from doing it again? it's all that simple, the 3-day conversation could have ended in 5 minutes if you would just agree to not let your political opinion affect your DT actions,

That's going nowhere, mikeywith if you keep to continue your full demands, as you've done already so often in this thread.
I'm willing to give in, agree to yahoo's approach and after that, you are coming with your full demand that you can dictate which feedbacks I'm having to remove. That's just not helpful.
And that's not something a sane DT member can agree to because DT is a decentralized feedback system. No individual is allowed to dictate anyone anything.
However, the call from yahoo is reasonable and I'm willing to follow his approach.

The third option that I would love not to go to would be to leave everything as is, both of us stop posting here, and we let the community say/do whatever they want with this topic, if they think it should vanish, they would just ignore it and it would go down the drain of page 100 or so, and if they think it should stay (either to express this opinion against me or yourself) then it will stay, and while that happens I promise that I will not under any circumstances post anything in this thread, and so will you.

In this scenario, the community will decide. Community decisions are never bad and I'm willing to apply the community feedback for any of what happens from now on. I'm okay, when I'm getting excluded for the time being like yahoo did above, if that helps to settle our issue. You can distrust me as well, using your DT vote against my feedbacks. I would have to accept any distrust I get.
Furthermore, I will consider community feedback like the one from LoyceV here:

As for the "conflict" that started the whole thing, I'm quite surprised that you both went that far. A completely useless debate where both sides claim that their media sources of information are more honest than the other. That's the first thing I saw after a quick look at the discussion you mentioned.

I think this sums it up nicely. I don't feel like reading all the details, but from what I've seen, none of this should have been a reason to create drama about exclusions and removing positive feedback. So you disagree. It happens. That's okay.
This has potential to turn into a year-long-feut. Don't go there, get a beer together and move on.

And I'm willing to lock my other topic about you: mikeywith needs to grow a thicker skin regarding DT issues.
Edit: done already to keep it going to find a solution here

So there you go, the ball's in your court

I believe the call from yahoo is reasonable to approach this:

I cannot really say what will end the dispute man. You're not budging and neither is he. Everything that needed to be said was said day 1 IMO between you 2. Having a beer and hashing it out was mentioned and declined. Talking isn't getting anywhere as it just keeps piling up. I get it, you are accused and want to defend your position and he thinks you are in the wrong and wants you to realize it. It's hard to move people from their opinion sometimes. He has brought awareness and people will keep an eye on you no matter what for a bit and see if you are continuing on the path you're being accused of IMO.

The community has 5 pages of stuff to read and decipher. If they want to ~ then they will. If they don't they won't. Ignore button seems like the best thing for you 2 at the moment and let each other have some time to think and reflect.

So,

@yahoo, I'm accepting your call. If you think anyone of us is violating your call, feel free to leave a comment here, I'm ready to accept your terms.  

[Unknown01]

I'm not really interested in the whole thing but I want to come out. This DT story doesn't interest me at all, I don't care whether I'm DT2 or nothing at all. Some people seem to think of DT members as gods. I just want to agree with the thread creator and our moderator mole. I was also attacked after political differences (in the german local board), including neutral trust, but I don't really care anymore. 1miau is on the ignore list of many people in the german board because he attacks and insults everyone and tries to finish off everyone with a different political opinion. As long as something like this is defended by even one DT member, the whole system is pointless to me. In principle, the system means to me: I decide whether you can express your opinion or not.

And all of this in a Bitcoin forum where everyone here should be for freedom and peace

I'm gone again! adios amigos

p.s.: If there is no attack from 1miau after my post, I will officially admit that I must be schizophrenic

[digaran]

Actually more people come out and talk about his abusive and unwarranted behaviour the more he is exposed and will no longer be able to touch any of them since everything is in public view and there are still some good DT members which I'm sure will exclude him as the more evidence is presented.
Some of DT members should really be ashamed, look the above member, is half your size but he is twice of a man as you.
 

[1miau]

I'm not really interested in the whole thing but I want to come out.

The "coming out" of you and your friends was already addressed in this post (scroll down a bit in the post).
The problem with you and your friends is that you can't face any criticism for your bold claims, like documented here.
When you are criticized, you are immediately claiming that you are getting silenced or whatever victim card you play then.
Criticism is not silencing, it's part of the debate.

However, we try to avoid each other as often as possible to avoid any mess and at least for the recent time, that has improved.

And Unknown01, I'm not "attacking" anyone in my post here, but I'm well allowed to address accusations against me.
It's not helpful that certain members of our local board always play the "victim card".

Thanks again for your troll post:

I really don't know what's your end goal but keep showing the community that your comments are solely to create drama, spam and sowing discord.

I've also thought about another option, how we could solve our issue:



From what we have right now, it seems that proposals brought up by both of us (mikeywith and me) don’t have any chance to find an agreement.

If we can't find common ground there, it seems this can only be settled by a 3rd party call. LoyceV and yahoo are both high ranked DT members with Top 10 community inclusions. They’ll make a call here and we will agree to that call.
LoyceV or yahoo will then check if both of us will play by the rules of that call.
Of course, either LoyceV or yahoo need to agree that they are willing to do this. Both have a good judgement and experience.

Maybe that's another possibility, where both of us can agree.

[Tiger Fist]

You couldn't care less but as we know from islamist extremists,

Who are the "we" here? It's only you.

they'll force their believes on others at any price.

Where did you get this idea? It seems you are suffering from Islamophobia.

I'm not against any religion, I'm against people abusing their religion.
Islamic extremism doesn't mean Islam.
Christianity doesn't mean "let's repeat the crusades".
But as said by mikeywith, it's not helpful to start a P&S discussion here. We have some nice replies in that topic, how P&S discussions are creating big, big drama.  

That's what all Islamophobia sufferer says when someone points out their problem. Of course, you are against Islam. I have read the thread and I didn't see mikeywith talk about Islam. I am curious what you have said to him via private message. You both do not agree and that is fine, but I do not see any point in sending a PM full of insults and hate without having Islamophobia.

You should know, that Terrorist does not have any religion.
They are terrorists and they just hide behind a religion.

We have different believes and of course, that's very legitimate.  

Did you come back to your senses just now? How it's legitimate? If so, why did you send him a PM full of hate and insults and ask him to remove his feedback? Doesn't that mean you wanted to shut his mouth with your action? What does the forum system have to do with someone's political view?

Stop acting like a kid. You should grow thicker skin first before you suggest others grow thick skin.

[mrust_mobile]

@yahoo, did mikeywith tag someone unfairly for stupid reasons? If not why would you remove him? Because he is doing the right thing?  

The right thing or the wrong thing has nothing to do with this. 3 days man. 3 days and both are defending their position with no end in sight. Be level headed, hit the ignore, and move on or take it private, either option is better than keeping the argument going.

Immovable object vs Unstoppable force

3 days is nothing. A fight like this can continue forever… till DT1 decides to end it by favoring one side.

All it needs a little “push”

Centuries mate. We will run out of popcorn.

[mole0815]

However, we try to avoid each other as often as possible to avoid any mess and at least for the recent time, that has improved.

That's a good thing!


Oh, I wouldn't have mentioned User: Unknown01 threatens me with a forum ban for saying my opinion here because we could write a separate book about it

But in the resulting thread (Dangerous and inappropriate use of Trust: giving positive Trust for Shitposters) and also here (Self-moderated topics - nice feature or should it get banned?) you have shown that you know how DT (or the whole forum) works and that you don't allow other opinions.

It was all pretty much at the same time with various (political and other) disagreements... but could also be a coincidence


You've distrusted me since one of our first differences of opinion, so I'm taking this as an opportunity to stick to the statement in this quote.

If I'm removed, I'll have to accept that and we part ways to avoid drama.
If I'm not removed, you'll have to accept that and we part ways to avoid drama.
If you are removed, you'll have to accept that and we part ways to avoid drama.
If you are not removed, I'll have to accept that and we part ways to avoid drama.

That's a big part of DT to accept either outcome of the community.
Less drama, more community decision, which we have to accept.

So since yesterday evening "~1miau".
That's the end of the matter for me personally and I won't be investing any more time.
no offense 1miau, but the thread has to come to a conclusion at some point.

[1miau]

However, we try to avoid each other as often as possible to avoid any mess and at least for the recent time, that has improved.

That's a good thing!

Definitely!
Thanks for your comment and let's start from here to settle this further.
If we are willing to make improvements and find a solution, we will make improvements and find a solution.

Like mindrust said, this has to come to a conclusion.
So, I'll accept either call, be it the one from yahoo already or if LoyceV decides to offer his solution as Switzerland.

[bullrun2024bro]

4- He added me to his "distrust" list.

You're not alone bud. Just a short story how I ended up on his distrust list a few months ago:

I ended up on @1miau's distrust list after we had a heated German discussion about running an altcoin node. He got angry and he took things personal and I ended up on his distrust list a few days later in week 227. He even started to correcting my posts for grammar mistakes because he ran out of arguments, lol.



Source: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=628413.msg62263758#msg62263758

A week later in week 228 @GazetaBitcoin also added me to his distrust list. No clue why, I never spoke to him. He never spoke to me. Might be a coincidence, but the timing is odd ofc.

However, honestly I don't care and I wouldn't have brought it up, but since @1miau offered "to make improvements" I wanted to add my story to the discussion. Nobody has a 100% strike rate and I am sure he can improve, if he wants to.


In general: I am a big fan of the ignore button. Not everything here is a DT issue and life is way too short to fight with random people over random topics on the internet.

We're all here for Bitcoin. Use the ignore button and move on. Focus on the things that bring value to all of us (the community!) and not on pointless fights that only waste time and energy. In the end, it's not worth it.

[mikeywith]

@1miau, did you not agree to stop posting here and let the community handle the faith of this topic? Why are you still ranting? You claim you want to solve this and stop the "drama" but you can't take criticism and you want to respond to every single post.

[1miau]

I ended up on @1miau's distrust list after we had a heated German discussion about running an altcoin node.

When you are making accusations here and accusing other members as well, you also need to show the whole picture. We excluded you because already way sooner previously back in 2022, you repeatedly opposed the Campaign to improve Posting quality on local board in the german section, where we lined out how important it is to avoid unnecessary Denglish. The campaign was launched by me and co sponsored by GazetaBitcoin.
You came in our self-moderated topic, violated our rules multiple times despite my explanation that the self-moderated rules need to be applied but you ignored this repeatedly. That was disrespectful, especially after doing this repeatedly.
The deleted posts are archived.
We can keep the accusations going here but that would lead to the exact issues, why the discussion was always heated.

We're all here for Bitcoin. Use the ignore button and move on. Focus on the things that bring value to all of us (the community!) and not on pointless fights that only waste time and energy. In the end, it's not worth it.

Definitely, pointless fights, one-sided accusations, heated discussions and similar are a waste of time. I fully agree to your quote.
You are right, that we should focus on things to provide interesting content to the Forum, especially now that a new price cycle is about to start ahead of the halving.  

@1miau, did you not agree to stop posting here and let the community handle the faith of this topic? Why are you still ranting? You claim you want to solve this and stop the "drama" but you can't take criticism and you want to respond to every single post.

When there are accusations against me and other members, I will address them, showing the whole picture. That's part of the opinion building process.
But after all, I agree that it's important to remember that even when there are different opinions about an issue, we need to agree to disagree.  

[mindrust]

life is way too short to fight with random people over random topics on the internet.

This is where you are completely wrong. The whole point of the internet is fighting random people over random topics.

[bullrun2024bro]

When you are making accusations here and accusing other members as well, you also need to show the whole picture. We excluded you because already way sooner previously back in 2022, you repeatedly opposed the Campaign to improve Posting quality on local board in the german section, where we lined out how important it is to avoid unnecessary Denglish. The campaign was launched by me and co sponsored by GazetaBitcoin.
You came in our self-moderated topic, violated our rules multiple times despite my explanation that the self-moderated rules need to be applied but you ignored this repeatedly. That was disrespectful, especially after doing this repeatedly.

What I find odd is that you're speaking for both you and Gazeta, but let's take that aside. So just that I get it right, you both distrusted me for something I supposedly did in 2022 just after a discussion you and me had in May 2023?

Quite interesting. Still sounds odd to me, but okay. Thanks for letting me know what caused it.


A few words to the 2022 "Campaign to improve Posting quality on local board" though, since @1miau said he wants to give everyone a full picture:

@1miau got heavily criticized for his campaign on the German board, after all the previous fighting he was involved in (the Corona drama etc. which thread finally got deleted). The new campaign was seen as way too strict by several members and as a possible tool to censor certain people he doesn't like. And that's why I and several others spoke up. No post should be deleted, because someone uses a few English words in a long abstract. It's about value not wording or grammar.

Things went so far that our moderator @mole0815 had to create a separate unmoderated topic after several posts got deleted by @1miau.

Here are the threads, if someone wants to read them, but it's basically the same endless discussion we have here on a different topic.

Zu viel Denglisch im deutschsprachigen Forumsbereich
Zu viel Denglisch im deutschsprachigen Forumsbereich (unmoderiert) (non moderated thread by our local mod)


So does all this help solving the current issue? Probably not. Therefore, as I said before: Everyone involved here use the ignore button and move on. I did it months ago already.

[LoyceV]

If we can't find common ground there, it seems this can only be settled by a 3rd party call. LoyceV and yahoo are both high ranked DT members with Top 10 community inclusions. They’ll make a call here and we will agree to that call.
LoyceV or yahoo will then check if both of us will play by the rules of that call.

That sounds a lot like being a kindergarten teacher. I'm not doing that.
I've made my point too many times already: ignore each other, and move on. You don't even have to wait for the other guy to do this, either one of you can abandon this drama at any moment. That's what I tried to do but because there's really nothing more I can add, but somehow it keeps coming back to me.

So, I'll accept either call, be it the one from yahoo already or if LoyceV decides to offer his solution as Switzerland.

I'm all for making your own call.

unwatch

[1miau]

So just that I get it right, you both distrusted me for something I supposedly did in 2022 just after a discussion you and me had in May 2023?

I was trying to give you the benefit of doubt for a very long time. But after all the things piling up from late 2022 on, this was very hard to give a pass at some point.
I have no problem if any of my posts gets criticism but this has to be in a civil way and if you are replying in my self-moderated topic of our campaign, you have to accept the rules of self-moderation. Removed posts were even allowed to post again but with proper German language, so no opinion was stifled. Your suggestion that opinions were stifled in that self-moderated topic is simply wrong.
Ignoring the self-moderated rules repeatedly despite me giving reminders of that Bitcointalk rules, is a Bitcointalk nettiquette violation.

I hope the above statement answers your question.
If we could sort out this one, what in general caused this whole drama, it's beneficial to see how this can prevented in the future.  

So, I'll accept either call, be it the one from yahoo already or if LoyceV decides to offer his solution as Switzerland.

I'm all for making your own call.

My call would be that'll try to get along with all members, even if we disagree.
Two suggestions:

- We can keep the topic open and have a civil discussion, without misleading accusations.
- We can close the topic and DT has now 6 pages to read up on. In this case I would give in on this and give mikeywith the last reply in this topic before it's getting closed.

I'm okay with both of the above solutions.  

[mikeywith]

1miau if you are going to keep ranting and responding to every single post, why do you pretend like you want to stop all of this? initially, you succeeded in manipulating other members into thinking that this was a personal issue between you and me, so the solution proposed by some of them was "to ignore each other and move on", now that more people had the courage to talk about your abuse -- it's very evident to the community this isn't 1miau vs mikeywith.

You can keep attacking everyone who speaks the truth about you, and you know because you have nothing better to do outside the forum, you think you can always beat them with your endless ranting knowing that they will likely stop before you do because no sane person is willing to spend his whole life arguing here, which does not seem to apply to you.

given how many victims of your oppression showed up and will still show, any rational DT member will eventually conclude that the whole issue is your narcissistic personality disorder, you are so obsessed with punishing everyone who disagrees with you, be it regarding a political conflict or even something as little as setting up a node, the only solution to your misery is getting you out of DT whereby your oppression is going to be kept at bay.


A message to every 1miau's victim out there who is afraid to show up here and speak up: you only have a single life to live, don't live it cowardly, oppression ends when fear does, 1miau does not control other DT members (he probably has a few "friends" who will stick with him despite his abuse but they will give up on him at one point) but that doesn't mean that there are not enough rational brave DT members who will always choose to side with the truth -- you just need to have the balls to speak up and they will eventually do the right thing.

I added the narcissistic 1miau to my exclusion list, because after 4 days of back and forth, it's pretty clear that he has no plans of correcting his behavior, he is counting on the negativity of other DT members to just let his abuse slip.

[1miau]

*same accusations as usual*

I know your opinion and I agree to disagree. Let's move on without misleading statements, lies and name-calling. This topic is a wall of 7 pages now.

I added the narcissistic 1miau to my exclusion list, because after 4 days of back and forth, it's pretty clear that he has no plans of correcting his behavior, he is counting on the negativity of other DT members to just let his abuse slip.

I disagree to the way how you are expressing this by using emotionally loaded words once again. That's not helpful to find common ground.
But I will accept your call that you distrust me and I will live with it.


So, what about this call?
Let's find a solution, where we both can agree on:  

So, I'll accept either call, be it the one from yahoo already or if LoyceV decides to offer his solution as Switzerland.

I'm all for making your own call.

My call would be that'll try to get along with all members, even if we disagree.
Two suggestions:

- We can keep the topic open and have a civil discussion, without misleading accusations.
- We can close the topic and DT has now 6 pages to read up on. In this case I would give in on this and give mikeywith the last reply in this topic before it's getting closed.

I'm okay with both of the above solutions.