Is 1miau fit for DT?

[mikeywith]

A summary of the thread is quoted below you can skip to my qoute below.

I thought twice before posting this topic, given the good relationship I had with 1miau over the years, but well..

A few weeks ago, I participated in one of the topics on the Politics & Society board, obviously with views that differ from 1miau's, what he did as a retaliation for my and other people's disagreement with his political views.

1- He asked me to remove my positive feedback on his profile because of the political disagreement. (first red flag on his incompetence of being a DT member)  

I responded to him and told him to take it easy, I did not remove the feedback because it has nothing to do with our political disagreement, but despite all that, I just assumed that he was "mad" and the next day he would come to his senses, but I was wrong.

2- The next thing he did, he removed positive feedback he left for another forum member, a member who also commented on the same topic (who also happened to disagree with 1miau's political views.

3- He removed me from his trust list despite being on it since 2019 as far as I remember.

4- He added me to his "distrust" list.

5- He suddenly remembered to tag this user who also happened to disagree with his political views on the same topic, you could argue that his feedback was correct, but given the timing, it's an obvious retaliation, that user has been tagged since 2018, well the reference he used goes back to 2018, why tag him right after he disagrees with you on a political matter?


I don't think 1miau is untrustworthy, I just think he is incompetent for DT, if his political views directly dictate whom he tags, or whom he distrusts, it probably affects who he adds to his trust list, I think a worthy DT member needs to be a grown-up level headed and use the system for the benefit of the entire community and not to impose his political views on anyone else.

Also a side but related note, I personally asked Theymos to blacklist from DT many years ago, so am not affected by 1miau exclusion by any means, I did not write this topic to get any more inclusions that I don't need anyway, I just hate to see DT members abuse the system to punish other members for political disagreement.


Here is a collection of somewhat a summary of all the complains on 1miau for those who do not want to read the whole thread (although i would encourage you to do so if you have the time).

would it be possible for you to compile a list

Feedback sent for political reasons:

Poly#Crypto is mentally ill like his friends s0nix + Koal-84, keep in mind when you are considering to trade. Would not risk any Satoshi.
Poly#Crypto is a piece of shit, supporting russian aggression: He has no problems when Russia started attacking Ukraine, and Russians are committing war crimes but Poly#Crypto has problems when Ukrainians defend themselves. How should we trust such an asshole? See also previous feedback.

s0nix is mentally ill like his friends Poly#Crypto + Koal-84, keep in mind when you are considering to trade. Would not risk any Satoshi.
s0nix is a piece of shit, supporting russian aggression: He has no problems when Russia started attacking Ukraine, and Russians are committing war crimes but s0nix has problems when Ukrainians defend themselves. How should we trust such an asshole? See also previous feedback

Low value shitposts, spam, burst posting and excessive pyramid-quotes (61052011, 61145452 or 61021354).
In addition, amishmanish downplayed Putin's war by repeatedly spreading pro-russian lies (60250177).
It's discouraged to support such a behaviour by accepting such accounts into signature campaigns.

Shitposting Bitcointalk with low quality spam all day; then openly accusing me for off-topic shitposting...
The value Koal-84 is contributing to the forum is vanishingly small. The only occasion when his posts are getting longer is to find excuses for Russia's war against Ukraine. Disgusting behaviour from Koal-84! Avoid this Account to steer clear from unnecessary spam and derangement most probably caused due to paid signature campaigns.

nullius made some disgusting excuses, when he tried to whitewash Putin's war

Disgusting troll from the German section, where he is infamous for his lies, his unfounded defamations and his Off-Topic Spam Trollposts. Recently he has started to support Putin's war by downplaying it, spreading Kremlin propaganda and s0nix has even started attacking accounts criticizing Putins war.
The behaviour of s0nix is unforgivable and nefarious.

His shameless defamation campaign is completely nuts. He's spreading his spam, Off-Topic bullshit and pro-russian propaganda in many topics and is constantly derailing the discussion. I called him out for his wrongdoing but he doubled down on his misbehaviour.

Poly#Crypto is a troll account in our German local board. Doesn't provide any value for the forum - only spam, shitposts, inaccurate information and (of course) defamations and insults. Tries to find excuses for Putin's war.

Supporting Putins war with Kremlin Propaganda and selling it as "facts". (see my quote in the reference link).
Helping to normalize an ongoing war is a shame. For a while thandie has been a disgusting troll abusing the forum with his off-topic spam.
I addition he's trying to discredit my efforts to help raise funds for civilians in Ukraine.

One tag is not enough - this account offered to trade Merit (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3254613.0;topicseen), his shittoken project is a tremendous fail (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3073043.msg31664978#msg31664978), KingScorpio is a disgusting troll and liar (antisemitic and racist hate comments) and stealing is not an issue for him (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5037733.msg46197278#msg46197278). He's not sane. Better stay safe and avoid KingScorpio.

+ other feedback that was sugar-coated by other "reasons" but was sent RIGHT after a political disagreement like this one

Where 1miau openly admitted that he

5. I'm allowed to tag any troll and I already gave digaran a pass way back in 2022 when I came over him but didn't bother to "poke" the troll digaran.

And

I'm usually only getting active with trust feedbacks, when I'm getting dragged into a confrontation.

It's pretty evident that the negative feedback he left was right after the political disagreement, had they shared the same political view, he wouldn't have sent the feedback.


Trust exclusion for the sole reason of political disagreement

- Mikeywith > https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5474713.msg63187266#msg63187266
- MindRust  >https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5474713.msg63191470#msg63191470
-bullrun2024bro > https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5474713.msg63200560#msg63200560

+ he almost distrusts ALL those to whom he sent political feedback, which would technically also fall under this list if, of course, out of the 70+ exclusions he has, nobody knows how many were done for just "political reasons", but ya, sure thing is, the list will just get longer with more victims to come.

Narcissistic personality disorder, the urge to insult, curse, and punish everyone who disagrees with him, either by leaving them feedback, or exclusion or trying to censorship them one way or the other 

- Mikeywith : He insulted me in public for political disagreement, sent me a PM full of hatred
- Harassing the German mod to delete posts that he doesn't like for personal or political reasons
- Multiple PMs are sent to the German mod  from people who are afraid of talking against 1miau because he would destroy their accounts
- Excluding people from competition for having a different opinion
-Constant attack against many German community members for having different opinions
-Attacked and sent feedback to a German member for political differences
-Threatening a German member via PM to take actions against him most likely using his DT power simply for political disagreement 
- Publically threatening a German member


Extortion

I was contacted by someone who interacted with 1miau for the removal of political feedback, 1miau said (I have to rephrase since the victim is afraid and I promised not to reveal his name in public).

 "if x member does not express his political opinion about x conflict anymore, I might remove my feedback."

I can't reveal more info about this message as it will lead him to know the victim's name, but as I said before, if any DT member wants the proof and promises to never reveal the victim's name, I am willing to send the proof, I made a promise that I would only show the evidence to someone I trust that they would not reveal the victim name.

- Threatening a German member to change his feedback


Mind you that zero digging was done to compile this long list of abuse and harassment, it was also either posted here or PMed to me during the past couple of days, and given how victims keep showing, it seems that the lists above have a great potential of growth, not that I think they need any more points because there is enough proof that 1miau suffers from egomania.

I am disappointed to find out that 1miau despite being smart and productive, he is just like a child who lacks surrounding awareness, if you give him a puzzle to solve, he will do it, a homework to write he will probably do it neatly, but if you leave a knife next to him, the censuses could be devastating.

So are his posts beneficial to the forum? for the most part yes.
Is he a good Merit source? he sure is.
Is he a good DT member? sure thing no.

1miau is going to harm himself and everyone else who goes against him if he stays in DT, if the DT community doesn't make up their mind to put him out of it at least temporarily, my advice to 1miau is to stay out of it himself, not being able to control your feelings and using all tools you have to punish people who disagree with you is a serious problem that needs to be addressed.


In fact, you can ignore all of the above and just look at the fact that there are some members who had to PM me or the German mod to express their fear, those poor souls are afraid to speak up because they fear what 1miau is capable of doing to them, be it a direct or indirect consequence of the way 1miau uses the system if there is at least 1 human being who needs to accept oppression in a forum that was made for a project that was intended to liberate people from centralized entities -- then this has to stop.

[LoyceMobile]

Can you add links to the topics that lead to the "conflict"?

[1miau]

After OP edited the OP as well to add more context, I'll add more context here as well.
That's a good summary about the situation:


First, many thanks for those, who tried to explain the situation on the German board, why I’ve left these neutral ratings.

It happened quite frequently, that threads in the German board were derailed on purpose by those, who have caught a neutral trust back then. And these neutral trusts are very important for readers to get an impression before interacting with these people, that every reader can make up his own opinion.
The abuses were quite severe because repeatedly, they’ve trolled with blunt lies even after the remaining members had debunked them. Anyone who dared to criticize the massive trolling was accused of "oppression", like these spammers are still calling it today but the reality is that our trolls can’t face any criticism without crying "oppression".

They just want to spread their propaganda without getting exposed as lies and getting called out for doing that.
That’s what they want and of course I will use my right for free speech to debunk that and call them out for spreading lies.
It’s not my problem that they were not ready for criticism.

So, our trolls are the ones who were always trying to prevent our spot-on criticism against their lies. Because it exposed their lies.

And these abusers in question did that derailing, lying and trolling again, again and again, despite some warnings from the moderation in the early days.
Quite a few members called out our trolls back then for their derailing, but unfortunately, some of these sane members have left the board, while a whole bunch of these abusers is still around.
Annoyed from the drama and despite the obvious lies from our trolls, the trolls were successful to trick the German moderator into doing little to nothing, sometimes a few weak warnings, when the derailing was too much. But overally, the trolls always tried to push the boundaries to their benefit. Of course, we pushed back, with criticism, with exposing their lies and neutral trust if there was any documented abuse.

We called for the moderator to sort out the issue and to do the moderation job. Even Nazi sympathizing gained traction or, legitimizing the war of Russia against Ukraine and spreading proven lies, of course. The trolls tried to derail our criticism by posting the same lies, re-phrased, again and again. But our feedback to take action against this was not heard.
Even later, plagiarism was covered up and even clear rule violation posts were ignored.
Of course, that emboldened the trolls. And they are now taking the chance to get rid of the consequences they got back then.  

If any troll is of the opinion, that the forum is a propaganda platform or should turn into one, fuck around and find out. I'm ready to oppose such abusers who are purposefully spreading the same lies again and again, using their perfidious tactics to derail discussions and damage our forum and society by sowing discord (on Bitcointalk and in real life).
That’s part of free speech that disgusting, repeated lies and bullshit propaganda are met with opposition, that people are well allowed to distrust these people, call them out for their disgusting bullshit and oppose any such abuse of the forum.
It’s not about "political opinion", what you are trying to make it look like, mikeywith, it’s about spreading proven lies and the entire process how to derail the discussion to spread all sorts of degenerate propaganda while these propaganda trolls are actively trying to play the victim role to delegitimize criticism. If you want to turn the forum into a propaganda platform, yes, that’s the way to go…

At some point, we have to ask, if such misbehaviour is really beneficial for Bitcointalk or if the community should be able to push back and add a simple neutral trust for this mixture of lies, propaganda, trolling, derailing, shitposting and other things, where neutral trust is appropriate.
I believe, yes, it’s possible.
Neutral trust is completely fine for such things, it’s not negative, if there’s no abuse involved, where a negative trust is deserved. Neutral trust is “hey, before any interaction, you might be interested to read this, here’s a reference link”.  
That’s a very uncontroversial neutral trust in my opinion.
And DT will approve or disapprove that.


Of course, I will also PM certain abusers before opening a topic in Reputation to avoid more drama, if that drama can be avoided, like it happened in the case of positive trust abuse of our shitposter friends Unknown01 and MinoRaiola. Or should I slap them the topic directly in their face like mikeywith did here, without any effort to solve it via PM first?
Therefore, your accusation against me that I’m “extorting members” is beyond ridiculous because it’s not even true, and this unfounded claim just shows your malicious intentions here. Trying to solve issues via PM first is the way to go, not slapping a reputation topic directly into someone’s face.  
That you are taking that whole thing here out of context, aided by our known (and unknown) trolls is one of your problems. That’s either malicious intent from you or you have failed your job, to check your sources properly or you simply parrot whatever our shitposting, propaganda spamming, NS apologia clowns will serve you, without checking twice what really happened and what they are trying to push.
The other problem is that you are enabling and whitewashing also their abuses of positive trust to get their accounts more easily into a paid sig campaign aside from enabling far right trolls, other lies and abuses, hate and division and derailing of discussions in our local board.
Shame!

You are not in any position to dictate me what to do, mikeywith.
Your demand is extremely ridiculous considering your limited knowledge about Germany's past and current ongoings and the fascist agenda of some trolls in the German section to bring us closer to Hitler 2.0 with the very same tactic getting applied from some radicalized Nazi trolls (luckily they have left the forum). You don't know anything about the far right propaganda they have shared on the forum.
I'm not interested that Germany gets turned into 3rd Reich once again and I'll do my part to bust a bunch of radicalized trolls, gullible conspiracy theorists, whose abuses are blindly defended by you.

- Harassing the German mod to delete posts that he doesn't like for personal or political reasons
- Multiple PMs are sent to the German mod  from people who are afraid of talking against 1miau because he would destroy their accounts
-Constant attack against many German community members for having different opinions
-Attacked and sent feedback to a German member for political differences
-Threatening a German member via PM to take actions against him most likely using his DT power simply for political disagreement  
- Publically threatening a German member

Your whole compilation of accusations against me is a bunch of nothingburgers taken out of context by you and our local abusers that they can push their propaganda further, without any pushback. You are their gullible enabler.
Considering that you have enabled radicalized islamism here as well, where antisemitism is very popular, it's no surprise that you are siding with far right forces heren blindly defending them and parrotting their lies.
Playing the victim card is the only thing they are succesful in because their arguments are too weak and can be exposed easily.
Enabling these unproven accusations is not only a very uneducated move from you, mikeywith, it's actively harmful for the forum and the whole society.
Considering the situation as described above, it's easily recognizable that your empty accusations apprear in a completely different light now: that you fell for their victim card propaganda.

- Excluding people from competition for having a different opinion

Next one is that you are obviously trying to dictate me, how I have to spend my Bitcoin, when I'm doing giveaways?  
Do you think I'm going to give my valuable Bitcoin to idiots and trolls, propaganda pushers, shitposters and their friends?
Instead of being thankful that I'm giving out valuable BTC you come up like a true dictator, dictating me how I have to do them.
How about doing your own giveaway with your own Bitcoin? Your giveaway, your rules, my giveaway, my rules. Stop dictating others what they have to do! Because no, I'm not going to dictate the rules there because I believe everyone should be able to decide how they spend their Bitcoin.
Thanks for showing your true face once again that you are an horrible person and totally deserve your spot on my distrust list.

tl;dr

No need for me to be on DT, I believe in a truly decentralized system, where no one is able to dictate anything, like which neutral trust ratings are acceptable or not. If other members are getting legitimized to interfere how other members are allowed to give out neutral trusts, our trolls will start new witch hunts again and again, terrorizing DT members.
And mikeywith is clearly doing this, without backing down from his initial claims, that I would have to remove all past feedbacks of the sort explained above AND for new feedbacks (and if there are new feedbacks, there would be the same witch-hunt again).
Let the whole community decide if they want to have these neutral feedbacks visible by default or not.



To address some of the abuses, where a legitimate neutral trust was given, without any doubt:


MinoRaiola

MinoRaiola is a known plagiarizer, getting caught already in 3 cases (probably, there’s even more).
MinoRaiola is a known shitposter, also defending his shitposter friends.
MinoRaiola was caught to circle positive trust for no reason with his pal Unknown01 to bolster their accounts in signature campaigns.
That’s why MinoRaiola deserves his neutral trust.


Unknown01

Unknown01 is an excessive shitposter in our local German section.
He got even a reprimand:

@Unknown01, you make many posts like these:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1336682.msg57014417#msg57014417
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1336682.msg57014702#msg57014702
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5269042.msg57008252#msg57008252
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=628413.msg57004830#msg57004830
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5312941.msg57003942#msg57003942

All of the above are (to me) hard to conisder as constructive posts. One liners, without quoting or seemingly addressing anyone in the thread and ending in a smiley (which to me makes it look even more like a one-liner).
I'd like to think I have been very consistent with how I count posts in all of my campaigns, not to mention lenient.


Most of my clients will often ask me why I accept/count local board posts and I always fight for you guys, to let you keep posting in local boards and getting paid for it. Just needs to be more compelling and we're all good, you guys know I love the german subs!

My reminders to apply a high posting quality have been met with aggressive name-calling, crybaby excuses and defamations (see the neutral feedbacks on his account).
Unknown01 was caught to circle positive trust for no reason with his pal MinoRaiola to bolster their accounts in signature campaigns.
That’s why Unknown01 deserved his neutral trust.

It's no surprise, we can find even more, when we are digging. For everyone who wants to make his own opinion, you can read the trust feedbacks and click the reference link. That’s why I’ve always included a reference link for every reader to make DYOR.
These liars and their enablers might show up here and tell you anything. All the feedbacks have a reference link, where everyone can read up the truth himself. The links above are a great start for the abuses, MinoRaiola and Unknown01 are involved in.


Another issue is paid shitposting.
Signature campaigns are somehow a problem causing this but I believe the real problem are greedy shitposters and I’ve been ready to call them out. Unfortunately, when there are too many of these, they will take revenge at some point. I’ve left them neutral trust ratings, that everyone can read up on the issue and make up his own opinion, so everyone will be aware of some of them.

Now, that many abusers are seeing the witch hunt launched by mikeywith here, they will gladly join to score some cheap points.
Like mikeywith, they are obsessed to throw with dirt because as we know they have no other arguments and the victim card will be out immediately.


Just to address the last accusations.

Luckily, the situation had calmed down on the German board over the last year a bit.
I'm not so sure if that will stay like that after the recent discord.
But let's hope so.





Initial reply:


Interesting that you are siding with digaran, our troll in our recent case, where digaran stirred shit, repeatedly out of nowhere.
Let me quote this here:

@Vod, are you trolling this trust abuser nazi? I have first hand experience, if he fails to continue an argument he will immediately resort to finding something on you just to tag you, be careful.

But you are the one who is poking 1miau and want to fuel it. LOL

Exactly this and this hasn't been the first time, digaran engaged in excessive trolling:

1miau

This is because these users are examples, indeed. They are also Merit Sources and (with few exceptions) DT1 users. And they act fair and decent.

Thanks for the joke OP.

Don't tell me, you and your nazi friend will give them neutral or even negative, right? Because who really cares if 2 nazis run around the forum and individually harass forum members with threats, trust feedbacks, am I right or am I right?

The way I see some of you weasel nazis operate, soon it will be you and your alts all alone left here with nothing to do but circle fingering each other.😅

(And that's only what I've detected in the threads I've read.)

Looks like I'm living in his mind rent-free.  
And if there was any doubt if these feedbacks on digaran's account were justified, at least now we know that they are 100% deserved.  

Well, looking at digaran's feedback, he's doing that for quite a while now:



And earned his negative trusts.

Regarding your other accusations:

1. I'm allowed to made any requests, if you don't like them, ignore them or report my PMs to the moderation if you think it's a "unsolicited PM". I'm allowed to address your false claims against me and your false claims and your islamist propaganda on P&S board, of course.
You don't even have to agree.

2. I'm allowed to change, or remove any of my trust feedbacks. This isn't controversial at all.

3. Wow, seems like we have to justify every change in our trust list or we'll get bombarded with a thread in Reputation...  

4. Same like 3 but for distrust list

5. I'm allowed to tag any troll and I already gave digaran a pass way back in 2022 when I came over him but didn't bother to "poke" the troll digaran.


I'm always trying to be fair on DT and giving the people the benefit of doubt and I was already considering to remove you from my distrust list, after I even merited one of your posts in our German local board.
Looks like this topic is your "thankful" response...
So after you are slapping here right in my face, I don't feel anymore to reconsider my distrust list entry.  
Thanks for confirming that I did the right thing by adding you to my distrust list and you'll stay there.

There's a simple solution how DT will solve such issues: if you don't like my tags, if you don't like my trust list entries, you can simply distrust me.
It's a decentralited system.
As simple as that.

Can you add links to the topics that lead to the "conflict"?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5470732.msg63017139#msg63017139

[mikeywith]

Can you add links to the topics that lead to the "conflict"?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5470732.msg63017139#msg63017139

Interesting that you are siding with digaran, our troll in our recent case, where digaran stirred shit, repeatedly out of nowhere.

I am not siding with anyone, I am simply questioning your timing, according to the reference you used in your feedback, digaran should have been tagged since 2018, but you only remembered to tag him the moment he disagreed with your political views, had you not found other negative feedback on his profile, what would you do to punish him for disagreeing with you? add him to your distrust list?

Well, looking at digaran's feedback, he's doing that for quite a while

Correct, but it seems fine by you, until he disagrees with your political view, no?

1. I'm allowed to made any requests, if you don't like them, ignore them or report my PMs to the moderation if you think it's a "unsolicited PM". I'm allowed to address your false claims against me and your false claims and your islamist propaganda on P&S board, of course.
You don't even have to agree.

You are correct, you could also request that people remove their positive feedback on your profile, you could also disagree with everyone on all politics, it's clear that I am not objecting to that, but you are mixing political views and the trust system, just because I think you are brainwashed by certain media -- it does not mean I think you are untrustworthy.

2. I'm allowed to change, or remove any of my trust feedbacks. This isn't controversial at all.

3. Wow, seems like we have to justify every change in our trust list

4. Same like 3 but for distrust list

You are allowed to do all of that, but your behavior makes your feedback worthless, if the moment someone disagrees with you on a political subject you rush to delete your positive feedback, add him to your distrust list, and see if you can leave him negative feedback then that doesn't make you a solid DT member, letting your political feelings get in the way of using the trust system is bad for the forum as a whole.

If you were not a DT member none of that would matter, but given that you are a DT member then everything you do matters, judging by what you did, you will eventually weaken the position of good DT members just because they disagree with your political stands, and the opposite will likely occur, you could very will bring to DT2 untrustworthy members who just happen to share your political points of you.

5. I'm allowed to tag any troll and I already gave digaran a pass way back in 2022 when I came over him but didn't bother to "poke" the troll digaran.

So you confirm that in 2022 before the political disagreement said member was given a pass despite the fact that according to you

he's known for his past shady dealings. Not to be trusted.

So him being a troll, and having shady dealings deserves a pass but a year later, and the second he disagreed with your political views, he now magically and suddenly becomes worthy of your negative feedback?
 

I'm always trying to be fair on DT and giving the people the benefit of doubt and I was already considering to remove you from my distrust list,

Unlike you, I am not obsessed with the trust system, your exclusion means exactly nothing to me in itself, it's your behavior, that I personally think will hurt the trust system.

after I even merited one of your posts in our German local board.
Looks like this topic is your "thankful" response...

I don't thank people for sending me Merit, I also don't expect anyone to thank me for merit, you seem to have a major misunderstanding of the difference between, feedback , trust list, merit, and one's personal political opinions, I don't, I will continue to merit your good posts when I see them, I will keep the positive feedback because I still think you are to be trusted with trades, I just think you will eventually cause more harm than good to the trust system if you don't change your way of dealing with the system.

As simple as that.

It's a lot simpler to ignore other members' political opinions, it's the internet, and you can't curse and insult everyone who disagrees with you, furthermore, you shouldn't use the trust system for your own agenda, I would have respected your exclusion if you had good reasoning on why you think my judgment related to the trust system is bad, but I know your only reason was that we didn't agree on the same points regarding a certain topic that has nothing to do with trust system, which is, a terrible way of dealing with the trust list.

I also don't know what was your ultimate goal by excluding me from your trust list, I would suddenly change my point of view on a conflict that has been going on for 70 years. , I don't hate you 1miau, I still think you are a good person, you just need to grow up and stop mixing things here and there, but until you do, I really think you are not fit for DT.

Auf Wiedersehen.

[khaled0111]

..

You made a multi quote but, as far as I can see, mikeywith isn't part of the duscusion you quoted! Why are you accusing mw of siding with digaran although he didn't even make a simple post to support digaran! And we all know that mw will never be and can't be a friend of digaran.
You are just trying to descredit mw just because he shares the same point of view as digaran. do your best 😉

[digaran]

WOW, cool project.. hmmm, sorry I lost my mind for a second. First of all, thanks for standing up against abuse, but would you be here if he was politically aligned with you? Of course not. When you fight injustice and corruption, you should leave every single biased pieces of yourself outside the door for the ground you are about to enter is sacred and should not be polluted.


In all of human societies people have had 4 things to measure and evaluate benefits versus loss. Sorry to be so blunt,
1. Their brains.
2. Their hearts.
3. Their pockets.
4. Their gentiles.

Whenever you could ignore 3 and 4, and decide how to live with using 1 and 2, you will win in life.
DT system here is governed by 3 and 4, and what allows that to continue like this? The answer is: people either divert such situations down there, or they think about their pockets. When somebody doesn't do that, they become a burden for this perfect system of scam, spam and abuse.
The easiest possible solution are labels such as "troll, liar,  harasser, scammer".

Since people are busy all the time, they never bother to read to find the bottom of a case, they just look at the names and switch to their NPC mode, because that's the way how things work here, a free and uncensored forum for discussion my behind, if you don't enforce the right of freedom, there will be no freedom, there will be no advancements because everybody would keep a low profile just to get by.  

That's worse than censoring and restrictions, that's called taming people to your will, making NPCs out of everybody.

Such communities will never succeed and advance.  aka decentralization without any foundation, and what would be the best foundation? Having a sets of rules that must be followed  > whenever you see abuse, speak up so that others could muster the courage and speak their minds.

When the majority stands up against abuse and injustice that's when little weasels get who is the boss, now they think they are the boss since there is no opposition.

[1miau]

I am simply questioning your timing, according to the reference you used in your feedback, digaran should have been tagged since 2018, but you only remembered to tag him the moment he disagreed with your political views, had you not found other negative feedback on his profile, what would you do to punish him for disagreeing with you? add him to your distrust list?

Yes, he should have been tagged way sooner. My bad.
Most of hist posts are Bitcointalk rule violations anyways for "trolling" but since it's not enforced, he thinks he can derail every topic.

Well, looking at digaran's feedback, he's doing that for quite a while

Correct, but it seems fine by you, until he disagrees with your political view, no?

So, I should give out tags for every troll here on Bitcointalk even if we don't have any interaction at all?
What a level headed opinion...  

This would end up as a massive shitshow, where trolls will get food left and right.
I'm usually only getting active with trust feedbacks, when I'm getting dragged into a confrontation.
And I believe this is vital to avoid too much drama on the forum.

it's clear that I am not objecting to that, but you are mixing political views and the trust system, just because I think you are brainwashed by certain media -- it does not mean I think you are untrustworthy.

Well, if you like to get some accusations going, I'll respond that you are brainwashed by islamist propaganda and you have a problem with it that I'm opposing that. You couldn't care less but as we know from islamist extremists, they'll force their believes on others at any price.

2. I'm allowed to change, or remove any of my trust feedbacks. This isn't controversial at all.

3. Wow, seems like we have to justify every change in our trust list

4. Same like 3 but for distrust list

You are allowed to do all of that, but your behavior makes your feedback worthless,

If you think, my feedback is worthless, feel free to distrust me.
It's a decentralized system.
That's how DT works.

Also, I'm thinking your judgement is not something I would feel fine to support.
That's why I've distrusted you.
Get over it.

you could very will bring to DT2 untrustworthy members who just happen to share your political points of you.

How about backing your claims with some proof, that I would bring "untrustworthy members" into DT2?
Unproven speculations are exactly what we don't need on DT.

What a shady try from you to discredit me with things, where you don't have any proof.

I'm always trying to be fair on DT and giving the people the benefit of doubt and I was already considering to remove you from my distrust list,

Unlike you, I am not obsessed with the trust system, your exclusion means exactly nothing to me in itself, it's your behavior, that I personally think will hurt the trust system.

Once again a false claim, like I have seen them quite often from you now, which is disappointing. So, no, your assumptions are already completely fabricated, that your conclusion can't be accurate at all. Do you think you could throw with as much mud as possible and hope that something will stick?
I'm not obsessed with being a DT member at all. I wouldn't care less if you or someone else distrusts me. You can do it, right away, if you feel so. Same like I have distrusted you.

I also don't know what was your ultimate goal by excluding me from your trust list

I'm changing my trust list quite frequently, so you've been in the mix that week. It's not controversial at all. Some DT1 members have a distrust list, where much more members (trolls) are on.
Maybe it's more of a problem, that people feel offended by getting removed from DT? Maybe such people are the bigger issue?
I don't know.

It's really sad to see your misleading suggestions here, like the one I would be adding "untrustworthy members" to DT, which isn't true at all.
It's really sad to see your reaction here now about our personal issue because I believed this was (mostly settled) and was reconsidering to remove you from my distrust list but thanks to this post, this might still be far away.
I feel I'm way too often way too soft on trust issues, giving everyone too much benefit of doubt.
But on the other hand, I don't want to cause too much unnecessary drama because it's just a waste of time.
It's so simple, that everyone can create his own trust list and should have a thicker skin if someone distrusts anyone / doesn't trust anyone anymore.

[mikeywith]

You made a multi quote but, as far as I can see, mikeywith isn't part of the duscusion you quoted! Why are you accusing mw of siding with digaran although he didn't even make a simple post to support digaran!

hmm, I don't think he meant that I was a part of the discussion between the two of them, he was just trying to "justify" why he left that feedback, which was a waste of time and effort because I did not contest the feedback itself, I only questioned the timing.

In fact, If you check his first feedback

1miau

2023-10-18

Reference

digaran is a proven troll. He is known for spreading lies, harassing forum (DT) members and is known for his past shady dealings. Not to be trusted.

He just copied the same exact link from marlboroza feedback, then he deleted it and posted a new feedback with the original (not archived) post, I think right after the political discussion he had he was just rushing to punish everyone who disagreed with him, I am glad he doesn't have more power than that or else at moments of anger he could have caused some serious damage to everyone who disagrees with him.

but would you be here if he was politically aligned with you?

I wouldn't, because I have been on his trust list since 2019, we interacted a dozen times, and I won't even count the number of PMs we had back and forth, I was always nice to him and he was always nice to me, he even invited me to the German section on many occasions, we always shared that "merit race" memories,  I don't believe much in "online friendship" however, if there is such a thing, then 1miau and I were actually "online friends", but none of that made any difference to him the moment he discovered that I disagree with his political views, so if he did that to someone like me whom he knows and had a good relationship with, I can only imagine what he would do to someone he doesn't know or someone he dislikes for other reasons.

On a side but related note, @digaran, this isn't the perfect thread for your issues with 1miau which fall outside of the context of this thread, I am not going to discuss the legitimacy of the feedback he left you, it's only the timing that matters.

I'm usually only getting active with trust feedbacks, when I'm getting dragged into a confrontation.

You sure are, it's very clear what you did right after the political disagreement.  

feel free to distrust me.
 

Or, I could expose your incompetence and let everyone decide for themselves.

Also, I'm thinking your judgement is not something I would feel fine to support.
That's why I've distrusted you.
 

Ok so now you are gone from "trying to justify" to straight out "lie until they believe you", the only reason you did that was because I happened to disagree with you on a political subject, at least dare to admit it.

How about backing your claims with some proof, that I would bring "untrustworthy members" into DT2?
Unproven speculations are exactly what we don't need on DT.

What a shady try from you to discredit me with things, where you don't have any proof.

I said "could", which is something that has a high probability of happening, the fact that you exclude members because of their political views, tag members right after they disagree with you, and remove positive feedback, suggests that you could at one point start to include members based on the same reasons you remove them.

I'm changing my trust list quite frequently, so you've been in the mix that week. It's not controversial at all.

it is very strange to remove someone you had in there since 2019, and then add them to your distrust list, just right after having a political disagreement. you still don't get it, it's not about me not being on your trust list anymore, it has exactly zero effect on my forum life, you want to make it sound like I am demanding your inclusion as if I created the same topic about everyone who distrusts me or doesn't include me in their list, you are smart enough to understand the basis of this topic but you keep pretending that you don't because you know very well that your political views reflect so hard on the way you use the trust system, you don't want to say it out loud despite actually practicing it, you are just afraid of losing that power and then whenever someone disagree with you on any political subject you won't have any DT power to "punish them".

It's really sad to see your reaction here now about our personal issue because I believed this was (mostly settled)

If I wanted to discuss our personal issue I would have posted all the insults you pointed to me, or the PMs, or how bad I feel about losing someone who I considered a friend, but I am not here to discuss "our personal" issues, I am here to discuss your bad usage of the trust system since that affects the forum as a whole, not just you and I.

I feel I'm way too often way too soft on trust issues.

I agree, and that's the cause of all this, you have some anger management issues, and you unleash the beast inside of you when people disagree with you, this is something that DT members must not do. if you can't handle disagreements, don't get yourself involved in discussions, it's unrealistic to expect people to agree with you on everything, and when they don't -- try to punish them with every tool at your disposal.

[1miau]

You made a multi quote but, as far as I can see, mikeywith isn't part of the duscusion you quoted! Why are you accusing mw of siding with digaran although he didn't even make a simple post to support digaran!

hmm, I don't think he meant that I was a part of the discussion between the two of them, he was just trying to "justify" why he left that feedback, which was a waste of time and effort because I did not contest the feedback itself, I only questioned the timing.

The "arguments" of you both are so similar, where you try to silence me for simply saying the truth.  
That you can't deal with it is not my problem but luckily, it's not your issue what I'm sending for feedbacks or which members I'm adding on my distrust list.
That's how DT works, or did you miss it?

feel free to distrust me.
 

Or, I could expose your incompetence and let everyone decide for themselves.

Yes, let the people decide what's more shady:
- that I've added you to my distrust list due to your disgusting, inappropriate islamist propaganda and the misleading accusations against me
- that you are stirring shit here because you are butthurt that I've added you on my distrust list

Also, I'm thinking your judgement is not something I would feel fine to support.
That's why I've distrusted you.
 

Ok so now you are gone from "trying to justify" to straight out "lie until they believe you", the only reason you did that was because I happened to disagree with you on a political subject, at least dare to admit it.

I'm very outspoken about this, and I've already stated that way back, when we had our disagreement that I disapprove your behaviour but for whatever reason, you are just coming up with it right now.
You can cry now, make mad accusations against me but you are the one who's stirring shit here because you can't get over it that I've added you on my distrust list.
Thanks once again for proving me right that I made the right call to add you there.
I was reconsidering my distrust entry but thanks to your accusation post, I dodged a bulled.  

How about backing your claims with some proof, that I would bring "untrustworthy members" into DT2?
Unproven speculations are exactly what we don't need on DT.

What a shady try from you to discredit me with things, where you don't have any proof.

I said "could", which is something that has a high probability of happening, the fact that you exclude members because of their political views, tag members right after they disagree with you, and remove positive feedback, suggests that you could at one point start to include members based on the exact reasons you remove them.

We all know how this is intended by bringing up some uproven speculations: people will read it, get a wrong impression and what will stick in the end is only the (unproven) accusation.
This is just shady but that's totally something I've expected coming from you.
I can come up with a similarly stupid example, accusing you of something, what "could" happen and that would just help no one.

I'm changing my trust list quite frequently, so you've been in the mix that week. It's not controversial at all.

it is very strange to remove someone you had in there since 2019, and then add them to your distrust list, just right after having a political disagreement. you still don't get it, it's not about me not being on your trust list anymore, it has exactly zero effect on my forum life, you want to make it sound like I am demanding your inclusion as if I created the same topic about everyone who distrusts me or doesn't include me in their list, you are smart enough to understand the basis of this topic but you keep pretending that you don't because you know very well that your political views reflect so hard on the way you use the trust system, you don't want to say it out loud despite actually practicing it,

I've already said that I've distrusted you after your inappropriate reaction to my criticism of your islamist propaganda.
Deal with it and get some more thick skin.

you are just afraid of losing that power and then whenever someone disagree with you on any political subject you won't have any DT power to "punish them".

Once again, just empty lies.
I don't care if someone distrusts or trusts me.
If I would care about everyone's trust list inclusions, where I'm getting trusted / distrusted like you do here obviously, we would have endless drama here on the forum.  

It's really sad to see your reaction here now about our personal issue because I believed this was (mostly settled)

If I wanted to discuss our personal issue I would have posted all the insults you pointed to me, or the PMs, or how bad I feel about losing someone who I considered a friend, but I am not here to discuss "our personal" issues, I am here to discuss your bad usage of the trust system since that affects the forum as a whole, not just you and I.

Wow, crybaby, "a good friend", we are on the internet after all.
Grow a thicker skin.  

I feel I'm way too often way too soft on trust issues.

I agree, and that's the cause of all this, you have some anger management issues, and you unleash the beast inside of you when people disagree with you, this is something that DT members must not do. if you can't handle disagreements, don't get yourself involved in discussions, it's unrealistic to expect people to agree with you on everything, and when they don't -- try to punish them with every tool at your disposal.

Yes, sure, I'm having some anger management issues, not the one who's creating a topic in reputation with several misleading false claims against me like you did when whe had our disagreement and that's why I've added you on my distrust list.
But if you want to have a big drama here, I'll open a topic as well and we'll have a nice (but very unnecessary) shitshow.

[mikeywith]

There you go again with your anger management issues, I am not going to reply to the same stuff again, there is enough evidence that you are trying to punish everyone who disagree with your political b.s, you just admitted it.

If other DT members think that someone like you deserves to still be in DT, you will, if not you will eventually be removed, I am not imposing my point view of anyone, just stating facts which you could not deny because they all are still there for everyone to see.

Now if you would excuse me, I am not going to reply to any of your attacks because I have no time for that.

[digaran]

Of course they won't exclude him, after all why would anyone remove the butter from their bread? Or why would they cut their own nails which is useful to do the scratching ? Wait till his buddies wake up and visit this thread to feel the full force of "kissing the ring".
Since I have felt a few indirect accusations here, would you care to show my troll posts and lies deserving neg feed back?  Unless you consider providing facts about people's behaviour as trolling. Otherwise you won't find it.

I guess you lost your credibility the moment you said if he was a political ally you woudn't care for his abusive behaviour. Nevertheless, abusers should remain isolated because they are indeed like a virus.

[1miau]

There you go again with your anger management issues, I am not going to reply to the same stuff again, there is enough evidence that you are trying to punish everyone who disagree with your political b.s, you just admitted it.

Since you are the one, who still replied here, according to your logic, you are the one having anger management issues, after that statement. 
If everyone would open a new topic about trust list exclusions, we would have pages of drama every day.

And if someone thinks, he is "punished", by getting opposition on an online forum, maybe this person is just mad as f*ck that their propaganda got exposed, like your crybaby respose shows here. Better invest in more valid arguments if the only thing left for you is to play the "victim card" (the victim card is usually the last resort of propaganda pushers, liars and trolls once their bullshittery is bused).

Of course they won't exclude him, after all why would anyone remove the butter from their bread?

You are completely delusional, if you think exclusions are something controversial. They happen all day. Of course you are just here for stirring shit now. Thanks for proving once again that you are a delusional, DT hating troll.
Or are you begging for an additional negative trust?

Since I have felt a few indirect accusations here, would you care to show my troll posts and lies deserving neg feed back?  Unless you consider providing facts about people's behaviour as trolling. Otherwise you won't find it.

Do you read my posts (or even remember your own posts), where you have stirred shit repeatedly without any context in someone else's topic? Or are you not capable of noticing that because you are a habitual troll?
You are just here to derail topics, called "trolling"!

I guess you lost your credibility the moment you said if he was a political ally you woudn't care for his abusive behaviour. .

I've said that nowhere but its no surprise, that you are making things up.
Thanks for proving once again, that you are a habitual liar!

Nevertheless, abusers should remain isolated because they are indeed like a virus.

Yes, trolls should remain isolated, they contribute nothing to the forum (except a bit traffic).

[digaran]

It looks like you are the one confused here, and you are the one taking my quotes from different topics and post them on another topic just to stay relevant.  Of course I laugh when someone says "exemplary, fair and decent" about a trust abuser like you, remember you started it first, and I have all the rights to remind everyone about people like you when there is a chance and when the subject of discussion is relevant.

Btw, you might wanna re-read the posts above yours, I was never talking to you, but to OP, because you never had any credibility to begin with, for me to say you have lost it.

You are so childish and abusive that after Learn Bitcoin posted to say something negative about me, you immediately interpreted it as a warrant and quoted it as a justifiable reason to keep harassing me.

If this topic is about you, then I have all the rights to be here. Looks like you are constantly after finding any excuses to just show it to everyone that you were right in tagging me, that shows how insecure you are about your own decisions.

[1miau]

Of course I laugh when someone says "exemplary, fair and decent" about a trust abuser like you, remember you started it first, and I have all the rights to remind everyone about people like you when there is a chance and when the subject of discussion is relevant.

The big issue you fail to understand here is that your action has no Merit at all.
All you show is how butthurt you are and you are playing the victim card, how unfair "mean DT" would treat you.
You are at -6 Trust for a reason and no one likes your malicious behaviour.
But you gave the perfect explanation for "trolling" and "derailing the discussion" by stirring shit against certain members who are against your bullshit here. It's very sad that marlboroza is not around anymore. But we have some other members to keep trolls like you in check.
So, keep digging your troll hole.

[digaran]

The big issue you fail to understand here is that your action has no Merit at all.
All you show is how butthurt you are and you are playing the victim card, how unfair "mean DT" would treat you.
You are at -6 Trust for a reason and no one likes your malicious behaviour.
But you gave the perfect explanation for "trolling" and "derailing the discussion" by stirring shit against certain members who are against your bullshit here. It's very sad that marlboroza is not around anymore. But we have some other members to keep trolls like you in check.
So, keep digging your troll hole.

I mean you are absolutely right(sarcasm), you harassed me by a neg tag and then mocked me several times on different topics, you can't dictate what I can or can't do, you see off topic, trolling? Report them, I have a neck thinner than a strand of hair when it comes to mods.(Ok, just don't go searching for my past dramas regarding that. Lol.)

Since I'm not the type to retaliate with neg trust, or use the neg trust whenever I fail to win an argument, instead I would use any chance I can get to unmask the truth.

You got scared when I complained about you to Vod? So cute that you are only afraid of other DTs, it's called survival of the fittest, *weasels must be afraid of hyenas.😉

*= I say that because of your avatar and it also fits your behaviour towards forum members, besides I'm saying everything to your face, not in your trust page.

Now go get your toughest thugs, I'm no longer a kid you could gang bully him, anymore. I will be waiting here or anywhere.
Btw, quit threatening me with "you will now get more tags" for what? Which one of the DT members I harassed continuously without any reason?  I have proof for all my claims.

[Despairo]

Unfortunately many users use merit, feedback and trust list base on what they like and don't like. But, is 1miau fit for DT? currently I will say YES because this case isn't a big mess.

Removing a positive feedback won't harm the account, adding you to his distrust list won't make you get off from DT as you still have 7 strengths, leaving one more negative feedback to user which previously have 5 negative feedbacks is not necessary, but also not wrong as the user was a troll.

And 1miau is right with what he was saying.

There's a simple solution how DT will solve such issues: if you don't like my tags, if you don't like my trust list entries, you can simply distrust me.

As I don't see whether you paint 1miau's profile or he paint your profile, I'd say you both are still fine and don't deserved to get further action.

[Poker Player]

But, is 1miau fit for DT? currently I will say YES because this case isn't a big mess.

I totally agree.

And 1miau is right with what he was saying.

There's a simple solution how DT will solve such issues: if you don't like my tags, if you don't like my trust list entries, you can simply distrust me.

As I don't see whether you paint 1miau's profile or he paint your profile, I'd say you both are still fine and don't deserved to get further action.

I doubt very much that all the DTs that trust 1miau are going to change as happened in the case of Ratimov because of what is exposed here.

In any case I think this section is missing a thread that is like:

Is a troll like digaran fit to get paid for trolling having 6 red tags?

What happens is that I am not going to open it because I suppose it would reopen old wounds with his current campaign manager but it is difficult to understand that case.

[BenCodie]

But, is 1miau fit for DT? currently I will say YES because this case isn't a big mess.

I totally agree.

And 1miau is right with what he was saying.

There's a simple solution how DT will solve such issues: if you don't like my tags, if you don't like my trust list entries, you can simply distrust me.

As I don't see whether you paint 1miau's profile or he paint your profile, I'd say you both are still fine and don't deserved to get further action.

I doubt very much that all the DTs that trust 1miau are going to change as happened in the case of Ratimov because of what is exposed here.

In any case I think this section is missing a thread that is like:

Is a troll like digaran fit to get paid for trolling having 6 red tags?

What happens is that I am not going to open it because I suppose it would reopen old wounds with his current campaign manager but it is difficult to understand that case.

If digaran was less aggressive, a little bit better reasoned, and less of a troll - all of which I think he is capable of if it weren't for the fact that their trustworthiness was ruined for not entirely trade related things, then maybe he wouldn't be that bad of a member. I've seen some of his posts that are on the better side, and they are good. He isn't purely a troll, some of his posts are of decent quality...and I am sure if he was not tarnished, he has the capability to be better.

As for you, Poker Player, it is not surprising that you are here to totally agree that 1miau deserves to continue to be a DT1 member, and have completely overlooked the compelling points and evidence provided by the OP...and in addition, have started your presence in this topic by shifting focus to digaran instead of addressing the OP and the actual point of discussion. I have noticed you obviously and subtly defending 1miau multiple times in the past, and now.

To address the topic in some way.

mikeywith is a totally rational person from what I have seen, and I believe that if any other member (like myself) acts or talks the way that 1miau has in this and in other threads, then they would be distrusted by many and maybe even scarred with negative feedback, even though it's not trade related.

I think that's a problem, alongside the obvious problem highlighted in the OP and the on-topic posts.

[mikeywith]

I doubt very much that all the DTs that trust 1miau are going to change as happened in the case of Ratimov because of what is exposed here.

That is not the goal anyway, but this thread will serve its purpose, 1miau now realizes that his political involvement in DT has been exposed, he will most likely stop doing that, he would use the trust system the way it is supposed to be used, just like any grown up person who cares about the community more than his personal political drama.

In other words, many people will stop being afraid of debating political topics with him because he won't be able to punish them.

Of course, if he continues with his behavior, he will eventually be removed, the forum history is full of examples, it does not matter how popular you are, when your personal feelings get the best of you -- you end up out of DT.

Also, we have a particular case in hand, this is not the best place to discuss other members.

[1miau]

Interesting that mr hypocrisy Ben Codie is also joining the discussion to give his biased feedback after his appearance in "Advertised services and participants in a paid sig campaign"

You might have noticed that your recent case about your Signature campaign hypocrisy doesnt has anything to do with DT? I'm not surprised at all because it just shows that the things I've pointed out in that topic are pretty valid about your campaign hypocrisy.

Of course, if he continues with his behavior, he will eventually be removed, the forum history is full of examples, it does not matter how popular you are, when your personal feelings get the best of you -- you end up out of DT.

Once again, a bunch of threats from you against me, as you would decide the entire DT decision... Luckily, you are not the one to decide what happens in DT as it's a decentralized System and your idiotic attempt will backfire.
Thanks for showing your true face to everyone.

Here you go, lets expose your malicious dirt campaign: mikeywith needs to grow a thicker skin when it comes to DT issues. Maybe the known trolls will comment there to side with you again...

In other words, many people will stop being afraid of debating political topics with him because he won't be able to punish them.

No one is "punished", you just can’t face criticism and to cover this up, you claim to get "punished" or "oppressed".
Propaganda pushers always need to rely on the "victim card", that they are "oppressed", "intimidated" or "punished" because that’s all they can do due to a lack of their arguments, due to the fact how ridiculous and obvious their propaganda lies are, so of course, they will play the "victim card".
Here on the forum and also in real life, this same tactic is applied in Germany by our 3rd Reich legitimizing asshats. They are always playing the victim card. That's all they can do.

Just read how often you are using the accusation, that these propaganda pushers would be "oppressed", "intimidated" or "punished". They are not "oppressed", "intimidated" or "punished". They simply can’t face any criticism or pushback for their actions. They just want to offload their propaganda in the forum without any criticism or accountability for their actions. Of course, it’s allowed (and even recommended) to oppose such a behavior.
So: no one is "punished", people claiming this just can’t face criticism!

[Poker Player]

As for you, Poker Player, it is not surprising that you are here to totally agree that 1miau deserves to continue to be a DT1 member, and have completely overlooked the compelling points and evidence provided by the OP...and in addition, have started your presence in this topic by shifting focus to digaran instead of addressing the OP and the actual point of discussion. I have noticed you obviously and subtly defending 1miau multiple times in the past, and now.

Yes? To begin with, neither I have 1miau on my trust list nor he has me, nor have we left positive feedback each other. Cite all those supposed times, go ahead. And besides, if we coincide many times, so what? Of course I'm more likely to agree with him than with a troll like digaran or a hypocrite like you.

As for "overlooking" the OP's facts, what I'm saying is that someone who trusts 1miau for his overall ability to leave correct feedbacks and for his trust list, is not going to change because of those facts. Maybe someone does, but it's not going to be massive as in the case of Ratimov.

[GazetaBitcoin]

As for "overlooking" the OP's facts, what I'm saying is that someone who trusts 1miau for his overall ability to leave correct feedbacks and for his trust list, is not going to change because of those facts.

This is correct. 1miau is a very good forum contributor and a fair DT user. If we look at 1miau's feedbacks we can see that they are more fair compared to many other (DT) users' feedbacks.

Maybe someone does, but it's not going to be massive as in the case of Ratimov.

This is also true. I highly doubt that 1miau would risk being massively distrusted. 1miau acted in a fair and correct manner for years, while Ratimov tried to fool the entire forum for years. 1miau wrote useful topics and never tried to impersonate other authors, while Ratimov plagiarized and presented other's work as being his. 1miau did not make a career with copy-pasted essays, while Ratimov earned thousands of merits with copy-paste. 1miau never extorted someone with negative feedbacks, while Ratimov terrorized many forum users which ever dared to state the truth about him. 1miau earned his respect in time, while Ratimov bought an army of minions by showering them in merits.

1miau is a correct forum user, while Ratimov is a bad joke.

Should I continue? I guess not.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5470732.msg63017139#msg63017139

Oof, that's definitely a topic that'll spark some strong emotional responses to people who disagree with your point of view.

But here's the simple truth: DT members should not let disagreements affect them when it comes to using the trust system properly--and here I'm making the assumption that the community has reached a consensus on what "proper" use of it is.  From what I've read it does seem like 1miau's actions were spurred by emotion, but even if I'm correct I wouldn't say those actions rise to the level of wiping him from the DT list.  I don't know where the cutoff point is for iffy behavior and calls for DT exclusion, but in my opinion it didn't reach it in this case.

There's got to be some leeway given to DT members, because they're all human and all make mistakes from time to time.  To keep someone from being on it, I'd say there needs to be an established pattern of misuse of the trust system or some other major reason (like a proven scam/attempted scam/etc.).

That's not to say there shouldn't be debates like this.  I don't fault OP for creating this thread, even though I'm probably not in line with what his opinion is on 1miau being on DT.  This is how we establish where boundaries are.

[mikeywith]

1miau acted in a fair and correct manner for years

That is correct, he has been a great DT member up to the point when he was debated on a political topic, he decided to do everything at his disposal to punish everyone who disagreed with him, be it the exclusion of a member he trusted for 4 years, removing a positive feedback, or giving a negative feedback.

But here's the simple truth: DT members should not let disagreements affect them when it comes to using the trust system properly--and here I'm making the assumption that the community has reached a consensus on what "proper" use of it is.  From what I've read it does seem like 1miau's actions were spurred by emotion, but even if I'm correct I wouldn't say those actions rise to the level of wiping him from the DT list.  I don't know where the cutoff point is for iffy behavior and calls for DT exclusion, but in my opinion it didn't reach it in this case.

I agree, I don't think he should be removed from DT just yet, his right-doings still overcome his bad, I just hope that he realizes his mistakes and refrains from doing them again, he needs to control his emotions and act like a grown-up man who can take criticism without the urge of punishing those who disagree with him.

I'd say there needs to be an established pattern of misuse of the trust system or some other major reason (like a proven scam/attempted scam/etc.).

The trust list / DT shouldn't be related only to scams, the ratings should be yes, but the trust list should be dictated by a few other factors, in fact, the trust list of the people you trust is very important, when you add someone to your trust list you are giving them more strength and visibility, their "vote" matters more with your inclusion.

if that person's trust list is based on their political point of you, then you know their judgment is bad and they shouldn't be on your trust list, just imagine someone is on DT1  with just 1 inclusion, and then suddenly due to their political views they get an exclusion from 1miau and are no longer on DT list, so now all the feedback left by that person are no longer visible just because 1miau wants everyone to agree with him on a 70-year-old conflict.

Furthermore, the fact that his exclusions are based on political disagreements, there could be times when his inclusions are also affected by the same thing, so this topic should at least serve as a warning and reminder for him and everyone else that for this trust system to work effectively, you should only include and exclude members based on your judgment of their judgment related to the trust system, not because they disagree with your points of view on something unrelated to the trust system, and the same thing applies for leaving/removing feedback.

[1miau]

1miau acted in a fair and correct manner for years

That is correct, he has been a great DT member up to the point when he was debated on a political topic, he decided to do everything at his disposal to punish everyone who disagreed with him, be it the exclusion of a member he trusted for 4 years, removing a positive feedback, or giving a negative feedback.

According to your logic, you are "punishing" me with a smear topic now because you are offended about my trust list and my removed positive feedback on your account. Still you are accusing me of being "Power hungry", while I couldn't care less who's distrusting me or how many positive feedbacks I have.
Nice clown show, isn't it? Have you been that vocal when there was real abuse ongoing, like from Ratimov?

After I've thought this could be settled in a civil way with you and I even wanted to reconsider my trust list exclusion at some point, I don't see any possibility right now why I should change my viewpoint after your topic littered with unproven accusations.

Where is any proof that I've included scammers on my trust list?
Stop acting like a child, where your only argument is "could", "would" or "might be".
That's shady as shit and shows that YOU are not fit for DT and have a horrible judgement.
Your posts are just empty speculations without proof.

So, I don't trust any weasels and at this point you deserve a fixed spot on my distrust list.

[digaran]

@1miau, can you in one or two sentences explain your reason as to what exactly prompted you to leave a neg trust on me?

I think any reasonable person would agree with your logic, if you are on the right side, if you can convince us with your reason, I will call out mikeywith a true trust abuser and then apologize publicly to you. Sir 1miau

[BabyBandit]

Stop arguing now people, it's no wrong to have different opinions. I don't understand why people here have so damn hard to accept that some people just don't share their opinions and have different view of how you should living your life, just go different directions, ignore each other, it's no wrong or right we just choose different paths in life.

Come on now, everyone, me to. Stop this unnecessary drama and move on! We all will be happier without this kind of drama in our life's.  

[examplens]

I'm not sure if this thread is open to solving your doubts about whether 1miau is eligible for DT, or if you're asking the community to exclude him from the DT selection. You seem insulted to me, because you had (perhaps still have) trust in 1miau and his judgement, and he returned it with distrust. Anyway, I see that he is still on your trust list, also the feedback you left him can be interpreted as a direct answer to the question posed by this topic.

1miau

2023-04-24

I have been following and interacting with "1miau persona" for years now, and I have no doubt that he is to be trusted

3- He removed me from his trust list despite being on it since 2019 as far as I remember.

4- He added me to his "distrust" list.

If I may ask. Why is the argument that he moved you from trust to his distrust list? Is this strictly prohibited and is excluding you considered a direct violation of the "rules"?

This example you mentioned, its (1miau) negative tag is certainly not the best reference, because it is about the user who already has several negative feedbacks due to similar things. 6 negative, mostly accusations of trolling.


As for the "conflict" that started the whole thing, I'm quite surprised that you both went that far. A completely useless debate where both sides claim that their media sources of information are more honest than the other. That's the first thing I saw after a quick look at the discussion you mentioned.

To @1miau, (not to write in your thread specifically). You mentioned that we all need to have a thicker skin here, shouldn't that apply to you as well and that you don't fall into the fire through dramas like this? Because of politics, seriously?

[1miau]

To @1miau, (not to write in your thread specifically). You mentioned that we all need to have a thicker skin here, shouldn't that apply to you as well and that you don't fall into the fire through dramas like this? Because of politics, seriously?

That's true and as for every case I'll also review what I can do to avoid more of such drama. I've not been the one starting this clown show in Reputation but obviously my trust list and my removed feedback really bothered mikeywith to an extent that he needed to start such a topic and that's why I've suggested he should have a thicker skin. My trust list is not his business as long as I don't include scammers, give out unjustified negative or positive Trust or something else. Only thing he wants to do here is to intimidate me, how I have to use my feedbacks or trust list because he fehlt offended that I removed him from my trust list and my positive rating after our disagreement in P&S.
I thought this topic was settled already and we would move on, yet he started this topic out of nowhere. Of course I'll point out misleading accusations then.

And yes, sometimes it's best just to agree to disagree (and stopping to interfere in my Trust list) but for the current case it remains to be seen if mikeywith is willing to do the same and agree to disagree. Repeated name calling and insults of all sort should be settled after some time. That's part of having a thicker skin.

[LoyceV]

As for the "conflict" that started the whole thing, I'm quite surprised that you both went that far. A completely useless debate where both sides claim that their media sources of information are more honest than the other. That's the first thing I saw after a quick look at the discussion you mentioned.

I think this sums it up nicely. I don't feel like reading all the details, but from what I've seen, none of this should have been a reason to create drama about exclusions and removing positive feedback. So you disagree. It happens. That's okay.
This has potential to turn into a year-long-feut. Don't go there, get a beer together and move on.

[1miau]

Thanks for your feedback LoyceV, as well.

This has potential to turn into a year-long-feut. Don't go there, get a beer together and move on.

I can agree here and that would probably the worst outcome, helping no one.

[AB de Royse777]

As for the "conflict" that started the whole thing, I'm quite surprised that you both went that far. A completely useless debate where both sides claim that their media sources of information are more honest than the other. That's the first thing I saw after a quick look at the discussion you mentioned.

I think this sums it up nicely. I don't feel like reading all the details, but from what I've seen, none of this should have been a reason to create drama about exclusions and removing positive feedback. So you disagree. It happens. That's okay.
This has potential to turn into a year-long-feut. Don't go there, get a beer together and move on.

Well said.

1miau and mikeywith, your argument is going to stop killing the innocent children and women in Gaza, the constant conflict in the Middle East, Russia invading Ukraine, failure of US to bring peace in the world? Any of your argument is not going to stop the propaganda spreading by the main stream media to sell their news.

Shake the hands and don't speak politics. None of us cares about anyone else in the world, we only think for ourselves, we are limited and programmed to justify everything in our own favor and we don't speak a word unless it brings at least some benefits to us.

[yahoo62278]

I disagree with everyone who thinks this should end. News outlets would NEVER lie to any of us. Shame on you for thinking that. This conflict MUST go on until someone dies. Sorry, but that's the rules LMAO.

[mikeywith]

I'm not sure if this thread is open to solving your doubts about whether 1miau is eligible for DT

It's to see what the community thinks of someone who treats the trust system as a tool to punish those who disagree with his political views, I did not remove my positive rating because it has nothing to do with this, I still think he is somewhat trusted with trades, as for not excluding him from my trust list, I don't believe in tit for tat, excluding him now would sound like it's a retaliation, besides, I am not on DT1.

If I may ask. Why is the argument that he moved you from trust to his distrust list? Is this strictly prohibited and is excluding you considered a direct violation of the "rules"?

There are no rules for trust lists, but he did that because of political disagreement, the exclusion itself means nothing on it's own, people edit their trust list all the time, and nobody cares, but when you do it as a punishment for political related issues, it's means something, of course along with him tagging another member who disagreed with him, and removing his positive feedback from another member.

I think this sums it up nicely. I don't feel like reading all the details,

The details of the discussion in P&S are irrelevant, we disagreed on a political conflict just like everyone else does, it should not have left that particular thread, but he took it out outside by

1- he sent me a PM full of insults and demanded that I remove my positive feedback (because of the disagreement)
2- he deleted positive feedback he had previously given to another member (because of the disagreement)
3- he added negative feedback to another member (because of the disagreement)
4- he removed me from his inclusion and ~ me (because of the disagreement)


This isn't a personal issue between him and me, it's not about politics or who is right and who is wrong, it's about 1miau using the trust system to punish everyone who disagrees with him, do you think it's an accepted behavior and should be the norm? can a pro-Russian DT visit the Ukrian vs Russia thread and exclude every pro-Ukranian because it's not against the "rules" to do that? furthermore, would he still be worthy of being a DT member after doing so?

but from what I've seen, none of this should have been a reason to create drama about exclusions and removing positive feedback. So you disagree. It happens. That's okay.

You are 100% correct in this, if he was not the child he is, this disagreement should have ended right after the 2-3 posts on that topic, but alas, this dude took this way too far, I was not bothered by the insults and the PMs, it was how he used the trust system to punish us for disagreeing with him.

Don't go there, get a beer together and move on

Let this serve as a reminder that 1miau is a terrible person to interact with, 4-5 years of friendly relationship with him, never disrespected him, and always treated him nicely and with respect, and none of that meant anything to him the moment I disagreed with him on a political subject, a grown-up person would not insult and curse someone over a political disagreement, let alone someone you know and have interacted with for many years.

your argument is going to stop killing the innocent children and women in Gaza

1miau could very well exclude you, neg tag you, or remove any positive feedback he left on your profile because if this line, he thinks that no innocent children are being killed in Gaza and it's all but lies, and thus to him, you are an "Islamist propagandist" who should be punished using the trust system, obviously, he wouldn't do it now because he was just exposed, but I am sure he will hold a grudge against you for saying this until the right time come.

[mindrust]

I believe I am in the same boat.

In March-2022, I was posting in the political section about the Ukr-Rus war in this topic below:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5382794.msg59455961#msg59455961

I see that he distrusted me after 13-March-2022 as you can see in LoyceV's trust viewer:

https://loyce.club/trust/2022-03-13_Sun_11.49h/176777.html

Not that it is a big deal or I care about it since I don't have a trust list but I agree with the OP, he is sensitive about this war and he will probably distrust (or red tag if the account in question was already tagged red, that's what digaran and nullius have in common) anybody who sides with Russia or talk positively about Russia. (nullius got a red for the same reason) Maybe he finds Russia supporters untrustworthy which is OK unless the rest of the DT1 users agree with this view.

I distrusted people for a similar (or maybe not that similar) reason in the past too. I distrusted most bcash followers and those who believed Craig is satoshi... But I think there are a few differences between this and that situation I told you above but it is the DT1's job to figure it out.


Another note:

suchmoon (who has some knowledge in these stuff) says we should send red trust ratings if there is a trade related risk with the user. So I think, it is inappropriate to send red trust ratings based on the user's political views.

[LoyceV]

I disagreed with him on a political subject

That's one of the reasons I stay out of P&S. As much as I don't mind having a political discussion, it will lead to terrible disagreements that have nothing to do with a Bitcoin forum. I'm pretty sure there's a subject out there on which I can disagree with every single user on Bitcointalk. Just Google "controversial political topics", it instantly lists 18 topics. That gives 262144 different positions already, and there's countless more subjects out there. It's not worth it.

As a reminder:

I don't have a problem with alt accounts as long as they're not used for evading bans. If you're hesitant to say something controversial because you don't want it to be associated with your name, please create an alt account and say it.

[mindrust]

That's one of the reasons I stay out of P&S. As much as I don't mind having a political discussion, it will lead to terrible disagreements that have nothing to do with a Bitcoin forum. I'm pretty sure there's a subject out there on which I can disagree with every single user on Bitcointalk. Just Google "controversial political topics", it instantly lists 18 topics. That gives 262144 different positions already, and there's countless more subjects out there. It's not worth it.

Yep, I stopped talking politics long time ago because of a similar reason too. Not that I am afraid of getting distrusted by the Zelensky gang but it is an unproductive discussion which goes nowhere.

[mikeywith]

I believe I am in the same boat.
I see that he distrusted me after 13-March-2022 as you can see in LoyceV's trust viewer:

Hmmm, I see, so this an old habit then, naughty 1miau managed to hide his dirty games all this long.

It would be interesting to see all the people he included/excluded solely for political disagreement.

Of course, get ready for his reply, he will

1- make it seem like you are just upset because of the exclusion itself
2- Some other meaningless bullshit on why he excluded you right after your political statement.

[philipma1957]

As for the "conflict" that started the whole thing, I'm quite surprised that you both went that far. A completely useless debate where both sides claim that their media sources of information are more honest than the other. That's the first thing I saw after a quick look at the discussion you mentioned.

I think this sums it up nicely. I don't feel like reading all the details, but from what I've seen, none of this should have been a reason to create drama about exclusions and removing positive feedback. So you disagree. It happens. That's okay.
This has potential to turn into a year-long-feud. Don't go there, get a beer together and move on.

Well said.

1miau and mikeywith, your argument is going to stop killing the innocent children and women in Gaza, the constant conflict in the Middle East, Russia invading Ukraine, failure of US to bring peace in the world? Any of your argument is not going to stop the propaganda spreading by the main stream media to sell their news.

Shake the hands and don't speak politics. None of us cares about anyone else in the world, we only think for ourselves, we are limited and programmed to justify everything in our own favor and we don't speak a word unless it brings at least some benefits to us.

This is a voice of reason. (royse777)

Most info we see is shaded lies designed to tear us apart. So that the puppet masters can get their way.

My business partner Loves Donald Trump and hates Joe Biden anyone that gets in that box of beliefs has fallen victim to brainwashing.
If my business partner loved Joe Biden and hated Donald Trump they have fallen victim to brainwashing.

Same goes Israel and Gaza the conflict is designed to sell weapons and keep the military industrial complex alive and well.

mikeywith has been a level head good guy with me.
I don't know 1miau very well.
I will tell them both
To fight with passion for either side means you are both feeding the military - industrial complex. And rich fucks are making money off your passion.

I watched Vietnam
I watched lots of conflicts.
1967 six day war.
Iranian Hostage conflict
Desert Storm
World Trade Center. in which I lost a fire fighter cousin and my wife was working blocks from the WTC when the planes hit.
Afghanistan
Ukraine vs Russia
Gaza vs Israel


and in all the cases above weapons builders made money.


All of you watch this movie

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_of_War

and understand if you make a stand and take a side you feed into the war monster.


Believe me it is not easy to resist.

I have a good Russian friend
My therapist is Ukraine descent with relatives still there.

I know these 2 for close to 20 and 30 years.

Both think their former countries are correct.

Both are well educated and intelligent.

I can tell you they are falling victims to war-monger puppet masters.

I told both of them that and intellectually they get it but emotions run deep and they both struggle.

Which is how I sometimes feel about the World Trade Center. I want to hurt and kill over it. I don't as I realize 66 years down maybe 10-30 years left so I am not feeding into the war machine anymore.

I am mining for BTC + LTC + DOGE instead  

[mindrust]

9/11 was an inside job and Putin is winning. Nobody needs to be upset. Let's get a beer and stop talking politics. There is enough beer for everyone in the world. Fuck politics.

[1miau]

I thought after some reasonable community thoughts, we would be able to get a meaningful discussion and solution but well...  

I don't believe in tit for tat, excluding him now would sound like it's a retaliation, besides, I am not on DT1.

I wouldn't care less. Feel free to do it if you feel better after it.

I think this sums it up nicely. I don't feel like reading all the details,

The details of the discussion in P&S are irrelevant

The details are not irrelevant at all as your post here is a great example what lead to your exclusion of my trust list.
It's not possible to have a resonable debate with you because you are completely radicalized on this issue. After 3 weeks, you are still having a serious issue against me, while I thought the issue was settled and we would move on.
Your post here once again is a great example how you are name-calling me, how you are trying to twist my words, how your emotions took over any reasonable thought and most importantly, how you keep lying about things I've never said.
Yes, I distrust such a behaviour.
Yes, you don't need to agree.
Yes, you will end up on my distrust list for that. You can complain all day long about me but luckily, everyone can see now that you are the issue after many people here were up for a reasonable debate but you came up with lies and unproven accusations again.

but from what I've seen, none of this should have been a reason to create drama about exclusions and removing positive feedback. So you disagree. It happens. That's okay.

You are 100% correct in this, if he was not the child he is, this disagreement should have ended right after the 2-3 posts on that topic, but alas, this dude took this way too far, I was not bothered by the insults and the PMs, it was how he used the trust system to punish us for disagreeing with him.

I'm only seeing one child here, where any reasonable debate is impossible because your entire statements are driven by emotion to bring up hate and misleading accusations against me.

Let this serve as a reminder that 1miau is a terrible person to interact with

After reading your hateful comment against me, while we were already a step further with examplens and LoyceV, there's no doubt that you are the one, who's acting emotional and without any possibility to reason with. Sometimes it's very helpful to read your comments again and think twice if it's not better to add a bit less hate and accusations.  

your argument is going to stop killing the innocent children and women in Gaza

1miau could very well exclude you, neg tag you, or remove any positive feedback he left on your profile because if this line, he thinks that no innocent children are being killed in Gaza and it's all but lies, and thus to him, you are an "Islamist propagandist" who should be punished using the trust system, obviously, he wouldn't do it now because he was just exposed, but I am sure he will hold a grudge against you for saying this until the right time come.

Once again, these lies coming from you are disgusting but that's something I already know from you and that's why you are on my distrust list.
Your accusation is just untrue, I've never done this, I've even said that:

Like you, I believe these deaths are evil and brutal. Every death is one death too many, I think we can agree here.

Still, I'm getting misleading accusations left and right from mikeywith.

2 years ago, in our German section, some people accused me that I would be anti-Isreal after I've critized the isreaeli settlers in the west bank.
Now, I'm getting accused that I would be anti-Palestine for criticizing Hamas. With blunt lies, of course.

Should I invite these people here that both of you will have a clash, while we are watching with popcorn?  

your argument is going to stop killing the innocent children and women in Gaza

1miau could very well exclude you, neg tag you, or remove any positive feedback he left on your profile because if this line,

If any, Royse777 is right. The situation there is completely messed up and as most people, I would be happy if Palestinians and Israelis would peacefully co-exist.


The whole accusations of this topic are a nothingburger. If any, the topic shows very well how impossible it is to reason with mikeywith after the issue was almost settled.
But hey, now we know why I've put mikeywith on my distrust list and everyone can understand my move.  

I see that he distrusted me after 13-March-2022 as you can see in LoyceV's trust viewer:

Fair point, I've changed that as I believe a reasonable debate is possible with you. Sometimes, it's better to move on and sort it out peacefully.  

Let's get a beer and stop talking politics. There is enough beer for everyone in the world. Fuck politics.

+1

[suchmoon]

I disagree with everyone who thinks this should end. News outlets would NEVER lie to any of us. Shame on you for thinking that. This conflict MUST go on until someone dies. Sorry, but that's the rules LMAO.

I'd suggest DT1 cage fight. Losers get blacklisted. I think that would be more fair than the lottery.

[digaran]

1miau, seriously how old are you? This has nothing to do with your political opinion if you even know what that is, the problem is the precedent such actions set as a normal behaviour where as I said before, nobody would bother to even participate in political discussions whatsoever. So you are either mature enough to realize that, or DTs plus admin get involved, because I'm pretty sure the administration is against using trust feedback/list to punish people for their ideas and opinions.

When other DTs pull their head out of the sands and judge this with no bias, they will come to the same conclusions.

To change the mood a bit. Here is a not funny joke.
Do you know what does the food sound in China? miau.

[1miau]

1miau, seriously how old are you?

I'm two years younger than you.

DTs plus admin get involved, because I'm pretty sure the administration is against using trust feedback/list to punish people for their ideas and opinions.

Let DT and admins (seriously, how delusional are you?) decide that and no, I didn't "punish" anyone but if you would like to twist it like that, mikeywith is trying to "punish" me because I dared to exclude him from my trust list because I disapprove that I got bombarded with lies and misleading accusations when we had our disagreement.

However, I believe with trolls like you, a debate is like playing chess with a pidgeon. No matter how many valid arguments we will bring up, the pidgeon will jump on the chess board and ruin everything...

[mikeywith]

The details are not irrelevant at all as your post here is a great example what lead to your exclusion of my trust list.

Lying again 1miau? You excluded me long before I started this topic, the exclusion happened because you disagreed with my point of view on a very specific political war.

It's not possible to have a resonable debate with you because you are completely radicalized on this issue.

Lol, how am I radicalized, did I insult you? PM you to insult you further? remove you from my trust list? remove my positive feedback and/or left you a negative rating because you disagreed with me? I did not do any of those things, you did, so guess who is radical here?

while I thought the issue was settled and we would move on.

I thought the same after 10 mins discussion on P&S I thought what happens in P&S stays in P&S, but you had to continue your insults via PM, and did all the trust system related stuff, you had no plans of moving on before you had punished everyone who did not agree with you.

everyone can see now that you are the issue after many people here were up for a reasonable debate

Correct, everyone can see that you have been doing this shit since 2022, anyone who disagree with you on P&S, ends up with either (negative feedback, a removal of positive feedback or exclusion from trust list).

misleading accusations against me.

hmm, I intentionally put the "accusations" in numbered points, which one of them is misleading?

After reading your hateful comment against me, while we were already a step further with examplens and LoyceV, there's no doubt that you are the one, who's acting emotional and without any possibility to reason with. Sometimes it's very helpful to read your comments again and think twice if it's not better to add a bit less hate and accusations.  

a step further to what exactly? do you promise that you will grow up and stop abusing the trust system by punishing everyone who disagrees with your rant? if you do, I will lock the thread, but while you are still attacking me to discredit the facts I posted about you -- you don't seem to be looking for a solution, you are looking for this to end as if nothing has ever happened.

2 years ago, in our German section, some people accused me that I would be anti-Isreal after I've critized the isreaeli settlers in the west bank.
Now, I'm getting accused that I would be anti-Palestine for criticizing Hamas. With blunt lies, of course.

Nobody gives a shit about what you think about the conflict, it's up to you to say and do whatever you want about it, it's a free forum, just keep this out of the trust system and nobody would accuse you of anything again.

I would be happy if Palestinians and Israelis would peacefully co-exist.

Lol, so you expect a 70-year old conflict to have a happy ending when you can't stand 10 mins debating about it behind the screen? I really want to know, if you had more tools to use against me and those who disagreed with you, something like a death note of some kind, would you have written our names in it?

Fair point, I've changed that as I believe a reasonable debate is possible with you. Sometimes, it's better to move on and sort it out peacefully.  

I really want to believe that you are honest about this, but I have a strong feeling you are saying this now because things look bad for you, you can't stick to your theory of "given that you disagree with my political views, I will have to exclude you and cause you whatever damage possible".

But hey, I don't care if you are honest or just afraid, as long as you stop abusing the trust system -- I think the problem is solved, let's hope no more victims of yours show up here so the topic will fade and die.

mikeywith is trying to "punish" me because I dared to exclude him from my trust list

I think you said this like 5 times already, and you know it's not true if I wanted to solve the exclusion, I would have PMed you and settled the matter with you, and I would not have asked theymos to blacklist me from DT1 which I was in probably long before you learned how to create your trust list.

This has nothing to do with the exclusion otherwise I would have complained about everyone else who has me in their exclusions
This has nothing to do with you having a different political opinion because I posted on P&S and had far more "heated" discussions and never once complained about

This has everything to do with you using the trust system to punish people who don't share the same political opinions as you, so this conflict between us won't end with you removing me from your exclusion, it won't end by saying you want to end it and have a fresh start, it will only end when you stop punishing other people for not sucking up to your views.

[1miau]

The details are not irrelevant at all as your post here is a great example what lead to your exclusion of my trust list.

Lying again 1miau?
You excluded me long before I started this topic, the exclusion happened because you disagreed with my point of view on a very specific political war.

You are the one lying here by cutting out the fact that the talk is about our discussion in P&S, here's the uncensored quote:

I think this sums it up nicely. I don't feel like reading all the details,

The details of the discussion in P&S are irrelevant

The details are not irrelevant at all as your post here is a great example what lead to your exclusion of my trust list.

The ugly things you accused me back then (and you still do it today), that I would deny dead children in Gaza is simply disgusting and reason alone to distrust you if you think it’s ok to switch my words like that and you even show no guilt at all, when I’m exposing this.
I'm not going to trust people spreading lies about me and other members and in general, a flawed ability to do research like you did on B &S board is a sign for bad judgement. We have the same issue here in Germany, trust me I know how to deal with these propaganda pushers (unless our socienty doesn't fall apart before due to their malicious division and hate campaigns).
The community has tried here to start a level-headed discussion, which is a reasonable approach in my opinion, that's why I've agreed to LoyceV.

But the only thing you are able to is to repeat the same bullshit again and again because you are running out of arguments.
You are obsessed with it and you are simply too radicalized to notice this.
As said before, I’ve got accused 2 years ago in the German section, that I would be anti-Isreal after I've critized the Israeli settlers in the west bank.
Now, I'm getting accused that I would be anti-Palestine for criticizing Hamas.

This is not helpful for anyone.

It's not possible to have a resonable debate with you because you are completely radicalized on this issue.

Lol, how am I radicalized, did I insult you?

It's not possible to have a reasonable discussion with you.
Simple as that.

while I thought the issue was settled and we would move on.

I thought the same after 10 mins discussion on P&S I thought what happens in P&S stays in P&S, but you had to continue your insults via PM, and did all the trust system related stuff, you had no plans of moving on before you had punished everyone who did not agree with you.

The issue was settled after 2 days as I believed it would be best to part ways and of course, I took my conclusions. Getting my words twisted back and fort, getting tons of stupid accusations and name-calling from your radicalized posts, your spot on my distrust list was well deserved and will be well deserved further because I'm not re-evaluating it for the time being due to your actions over the last days.  
I'm done with your nonsense.
But looks like you are still mad.  

misleading accusations against me.

hmm, I intentionally put the "accusations" in numbered points, which one of them is misleading?

You clearly haven't read my post.  

After reading your hateful comment against me, while we were already a step further with examplens and LoyceV, there's no doubt that you are the one, who's acting emotional and without any possibility to reason with. Sometimes it's very helpful to read your comments again and think twice if it's not better to add a bit less hate and accusations.  

a step further to what exactly? do you promise that you will grow up and stop abusing the trust system by punishing everyone who disagrees with your rant? if you do, I will lock the thread, but while you are still attacking me to discredit the facts I posted about you -- you don't seem to be looking for a regulation, you are looking for this to end as if nothing has ever happened.

A step further, that you will grow a thicker skin and don't call it abuse when you get on my distrust list after your bullshit performance in P&S. At least we know now that you would resort to disgusting lies against me and word twisting any time again. That's not someone I want to remove from my distrust list any time soon.

2 years ago, in our German section, some people accused me that I would be anti-Isreal after I've critized the isreaeli settlers in the west bank.
Now, I'm getting accused that I would be anti-Palestine for criticizing Hamas. With blunt lies, of course.

Nobody gives a shit about what you think about the conflict, it's up to you to say and do whatever you want about it, it's a free forum, just keep this out of the trust system and nobody would accuse you of anything again.

Then, you should stop to twist my words and stop writing things I've never said.

I would be happy if Palestinians and Israelis would peacefully co-exist.

Lol, so you expect a 70-year old conflict to have a happy ending when you can't stand 10 mins debating about it behind the screen? I really want to know, if you had more tools to use against me and those who disagreed with you, something like a death note of some kind, would you have written our names in it?

I can collect all of your childish missteps and present them on a new topic in Reputation, how about that?
Would be very helpful for both of us and more unnecessary drama or are you planning to do this:

This has potential to turn into a year-long-feut.

I'm not in favor of that, I'm in favor of this:

Don't go there, get a beer together and move on.

I can agree here and that would probably the worst outcome, helping no one.

Fair point, I've changed that as I believe a reasonable debate is possible with you. Sometimes, it's better to move on and sort it out peacefully.  

I really want to believe that you are honest about this, but I have a strong feeling you are saying this now because things look bad for you, you can't stick to your theory of "given that you disagree with my political views, I will have to exclude you and cause you whatever damage possible".

Again something of the sort "might", "possibly", "I have the feeling" = unproven speculations!
Don't you believe in people to settle things peacefully? Or are you just trying to keep the hate going, while everyone is calling for a peaceful solution?
It's a very important point of DT and part of growing a thicker skin.

mikeywith is trying to "punish" me because I dared to exclude him from my trust list

I think you said this like 5 times already, and you know it's not true if I wanted to solve the exclusion, I would have PMed you and settled the matter with you, and I would not have asked theymos to blacklist me from DT1 which I was in probably long before you learned how to create your trust list.

Wow, thanks for confirming that you are just trying to silence me with the big hammer instead of any other civil solution.  

This has everything to do with you using the trust system to punish people who don't share the same political opinions as you, so this conflict between us won't end with you removing me from your exclusion, it won't end by saying you want to end it and have a fresh start, it will only end when you stop punishing other people for not sucking up to your views.

But be careful that it's not coming back to you because your posts are increasingly looking very desperate that you won't reach your "goal" to leave any damage against me and this might not be a very good look for you especially due to the fact, that your arguments are very weak.
Should everyone create a thread about the same issue, when someone has some beef on the forum, Reputation would be a clown show.


I will continue to disprove your reaction in our P&S discussion.
You think that my reaction is not appropriate and a "punishment" for you.  
I don't have any reason to remove you from my distrust list but I will have to accept, that you don't agree to that.
You can continue to be mad at me (if you like so) but you'll have to accept that any unproven accusation does not help.

We won't come together here but we can try.
The community would like that we can try.
So we can try to agree to disagree. Enough wasted internet space...

[SamReomo]

After reading the whole thread and the replies in it I must say that we should stop the debate here because it won't be helpful at all and if this conversation continues then it will be another topic of the P&S, and that's not going to be a good thing for the reputation board. I respect @1miau and @mikeywith as both of them are among the reputed members of the forum who have been contributing good stuff to the forum, and that's why taking favor of one party while opposing other is not going to be any helpful.

I'm not someone highly interested into politics because I believe that politics can create differences between us as humans and we may hate our brother just because of the politics and ideologies. We should think more about the progress of the humanity and human civilization rather than taking part in political conflicts which aren't going to be resolved any sooner because if they get resolved then who will purchase the war weapons which are meant to be used during the conflicts.

I don't really read news a lot because it will be very hard for me to see someone suffering and I'm the one who can't do anything to relieve someone's sufferings. Although, I can't do any thing individually to help those who suffer from the conflicts of others but if I see those sufferings then as a human I can feel their pain, but unfortunately I can't relieve their pain and suffering. Here in this forum we all are supposed to be here to help and support the Bitcoin project and we all should keep our personal and political debates aside and try our best to contribute as much for the Bitcoin community and for this amazing forum as we possibly can. I won't be saying more words because I'm quite sure that someone who get hurt from my words so I'm just requesting you guys to resolve the political issues and don't let those issues ruin your forum activities.

[1miau]

After reading the whole thread and the replies in it I must say that we should stop the debate here because it won't be helpful at all and if this conversation continues then it will be another topic of the P&S, and that's not going to be a good thing for the reputation board.

+1
Topics in Reputation can get quite heated and that's part of the game but as you've said, it's always important to find a peaceful solution, to stop name-calling, to stop pouring oil in the fire.
That's what a good DT member should do and advocate for. After all, this forum is called Bitcointalk, not P&S talk.
Many members have stated the opinion here how important it is to remember that. 
We won't drink a beer together but at least, we can peacefully co-exist in the forum. 

[mikeywith]

The above wall of text is full of off-topic P&S drama. I am not going to entertain you anymore.

For those coming late, here is a summary.

1miau uses the trust system as a weapon to punish members who have different points of view related to politics, if you happen to post a different point of view than his, he would

- Remove positive feedback if any (happened and he did not deny it)
- Give you a negative tag for something else that he would otherwise ignore if you did not have a different political opinion (happened and he did not deny it)
- Add you to his exclusion list for saying something in P&S that he does not like (he did that to me, and recently we came to know that he did the same to mindrust)

Furthermore, if you happen to disagree with him, expect some mean insults in public, and if you ignore them -- more would come to your PM (happened to me and he did not deny it)

Also, I appreciate everyone's opinion calling for "peace", unfortunately, I am not at war with 1miau, he still thinks it's perfectly fine to do everything he did, and instead of admitting that he shouldn't be using the trust system for political reasons, he keeps attacking me, as if that would somehow make him look better.

If the community thinks it's perfectly fine to use the trust system for politics-related stuff, I will respect that and move on.

we can peacefully co-exist in the forum. 

By "peacefully" do you mean, removing positive feedback, giving neg feedback, and trust list exclusion?

if you want to stop the drama, stop attacking me, I said what I have to say and you presented your case, let's both stop posting unless a question is directed to one of us, otherwise, you keep quoting my posts and I keep quoting yours which leads nowhere, you are just making it hard for the readers to follow the topic, which is probably what you want to achieve after all, if you are so confident in yourself, stop drilling the thread, I only posted once in your thread "which you created to attack me instead of defending yourself".


TL;DR for everyone else:

Do you think it's fine to use the trust system against others for political disagreements?

[1miau]

we can peacefully co-exist in the forum. 

By "peacefully" do you mean, removing positive feedback, giving neg feedback, and trust list exclusion?

As far as I can remember I've not given you a negative trust.
And I'm allowed to add you my distrust list because of our harsh disagreement in P&S board, what changed my ability to trust your judgement. That's not a "punishment", that's simply a sign of disapproval of judgement. I wasn't planning to have you on my distrust list until the end of all days.
Because time is an important factor and possibly, this can be settled over time. But this remains to be seen after what happened the past days.

if you want to stop the drama, stop attacking me, I said what I have to say and you presented your case, let's both stop posting unless a question is directed to one of us, otherwise, you keep quoting my posts and I keep quoting yours which leads nowhere, you are just making it hard for the readers to follow the topic, which is probably what you want to achieve after all, if you are so confident in yourself, stop drilling the thread, I only posted once in your thread "which you created to attack me instead of defending yourself".

These lines I can (mostly  ) agree to. Sometimes discussions can be heated. And to a certain degree this is also part of DT somehow, if not, that wouldn't be DT. 
As you've said there, it's important to remember that these endless escalations are not helpful for anyone.
Despite being extremely disappointed what happened the past days, I believe this is the right call to make.
We can disagree, we can fight but after all we have to remember that we are here on BITCOINtalk.

I only posted once in your thread "which you created to attack me instead of defending yourself".

I've just started the topic because at the time, when I've created it, this particular message got lost in the drama in your topic very quickly.
But I can lock this topic if you want. 

[SamReomo]

+1
Topics in Reputation can get quite heated and that's part of the game but as you've said, it's always important to find a peaceful solution, to stop name-calling, to stop pouring oil in the fire.
That's what a good DT member should do and advocate for. After all, this forum is called Bitcointalk, not P&S talk.
Many members have stated the opinion here how important it is to remember that. 
We won't drink a beer together but at least, we can peacefully co-exist in the forum. 

Yeah, it's always better to find a peaceful solution to resolve any conflicts that take place because of the political matters. It's a worse thing to increase the intensity of the fire by pouring oil into it because that will increase the differences between two people and can create further conflicts. It's always better to pour water to calm down the fire and that's the way we all should incorporate. It's not hard to create differences between two people or increase the intensity of differences by shaping your words but it's quite difficult to have a solution of the conflicts that are taking place between two people.

Our forum is one of the best places in the world and we as members of the forum should try our best to contribute to the forum as much as we can. Sometimes we don't agree with the opinions of other members but if their opinions can be helpful in a way or other then we should either support those opinions or keep silence in order to avoid provoking of any conflicts because if we don't like someone's opinion it doesn't mean that their opinions are incorrect. However, if we continue to have arguments then that may be the cause of conflicts and that's not good for our own mental health and for the peacefulness of the forum.

We all should be concerned about the future of Bitcoin and it's growth and I believe that if Bitcoin grows then at least some of the financial problems of the globe will be solved and that would contribute to the reduction of war to some extent. It's not hard to start a war but it's quite hard to start a peaceful initiative. We can only hope for peaceful and happy future of us and all human beings but unfortunately we can't change the mindsets that are mostly there to cause troubles and nothing else. I believe that the issue between you guys isn't personal and that's why I think you both can easily solve such differences in simple PM's and that will be better than continuing this thread. I hope that soon we may come up with a solution that will be satisfactory for both of you guys. 

[1miau]

Yeah, it's always better to find a peaceful solution to resolve any conflicts that take place because of the political matters. It's a worse thing to increase the intensity of the fire by pouring oil into it because that will increase the differences between two people and can create further conflicts. It's always better to pour water to calm down the fire and that's the way we all should incorporate. It's not hard to create differences between two people or increase the intensity of differences by shaping your words but it's quite difficult to have a solution of the conflicts that are taking place between two people.

Yes, very important part. We have to be careful which way we are taking. That's what LoyceV described as well. There are so many disagreements on the forum, so much of it related to DT but in the end we have to ask a question: are we here to post / read content about Bitcoin, about the forum community like the upcoming Bitcointalk Awards or do we want to waste our lifetime with fighting each other?
I'm in favor of option 1. 

However, if we continue to have arguments then that may be the cause of conflicts and that's not good for our own mental health and for the peacefulness of the forum.

And it's a waste of our lifetime. We could do so many positive things instead of fighting each other.
There are so many downsides with fighting while little to nothing to gain.
In Bitcoin speculation terms, we would say "It's not profitable at all", like a shitcoin. 


Well written post, where I can agree 100%. 

[examplens]

TL;DR for everyone else:

From everyone else, this seems like an unnecessary and uninteresting discussion. Both of you mostly repeat the same thing and do not deviate from your positions.

TL;DR for everyone else:

Do you think it's fine to use the trust system against others for political disagreements?

You might not like it, but...
Adding someone to the distrust list is not a "use of the trust system against someone". It's a matter of personal opinion about someone's views.

Any discussion, where we present our personal views, affects what judgment other users will have about us. Even if two users have the same attitude towards something, that does not necessarily mean that they should be added to the trust list. Sometimes it is enough to see someone's way of expression, regardless of the topic being discussed.
A political discussion will show someone's character more clearly than, for example, a discussion about which miner is more efficient. Also, some users avoid participating in political discussions, even if they have something good to say. And that ignoring gives some picture of these users.

In the end, we mostly don't know each other here personally and we make our judgments about others based on what is presented or written here.

[mikeywith]

Adding someone to the distrust list is not a "use of the trust system against someone". It's a matter of personal opinion about someone's views.

What about the other points? Like leaving a negative feedback of removing a positive feedback for political reasons?

Everything is a personal opinion of someone's view, if someone gives you a negative feedback saying "you are a scammer" it is their personal opinion too, which they are entitled to, are you not going to demand the removal of that tag or the person behind it?

If everything is "personal opinion" then there is no need for a default trust list, we should let everyone express thier personal opinion without any community consensus.

[1miau]

Adding someone to the distrust list is not a "use of the trust system against someone". It's a matter of personal opinion about someone's views.

What about the other points? Like leaving a negative feedback of removing a positive feedback for political reasons?

What you are calling "political reasons" is much broader like already explained by examplens. The way of taking criticism, reacting to certain comments, being very "aggressive" to push a viewpoint, admitting mistakes etc.. If someone thinks at the same time that my way of discussing is too weak / to harsh / too whatever and they distrust me, I would have to live with that, no matter if I think this is justified or not. Of course, I could ask a question, why they did so but of course I wouldn't do that via big hammer topic in reputation.
Trust list doesn't mean trust feedback, as trust list directly means "I trust this member's judgement".  
It's even common that people get a trust list entry basically for nothing.
Or if someone just doesn't like me after a normal discussion (not politics related), they can distrust me as well.
There are simply so many reasons.
We had a certain member who was advertising gambling in his signature, while saying that gambling would be "unethical" but still, he participated in a paid gambling sig campaign.
We can distrust members who are shilling crap because we believe that they could push this crap via DT position, doesn't matter if it's a shitcoin or a shady service etc.
As already said in the topic there have even been negative trusts (yes, that's feedback) for shilling CSW and BSV.
Which can also be legitimate, DT can sort this out.
And if someone disagrees to someone's judgement, everyone has a possibility to add someone to their distrust list.

Regarding the negative feedback, which I've sent to digaran, that's quite simple: if there's no reason to leave a feedback or the feedback is simply a false claim, then, the feedback is not appropriate. But for this case, there have been 4 red tags already. So, if that would be trust abuse, there would be 5 people abusing trust.
For trust entries, DT trust feedback standards apply accordingly.  
As always, we have to review the context.

Regarding the removed positive feedback:
I don't owe anyone any positive trust feedback and I'm free to remove them any time. If someone disagrees with me, that I'm withdrawing my (positive or negative) trust feedbacks too often, there's a simple solution as well = anyone can distrust me.
Nowadays, nice-guy positive trust is much more of an issue, still many people don't care.

But there are no rules at all about withdrawing feedbacks.
Maybe we can define some but I think this is completely fine how it is currently as there's absolutely no issue with it. As far as I remember that happens quite often and I've also withdrawn my positive feedback on Ratimov just recently after what happened.

[mikeywith]

Here is a small collection of 1miau sent feedback

Poly#Crypto is a troll account in our German local board. Doesn't provide any value for the forum - only spam, shitposts, inaccurate information and (of course) defamations and insults. Tries to find excuses for Putin's war.
This Troll account is usually not using the Trust system, the fraudulent feedback against my account is its first one. Consider the feedbacks left by this account as completely worthless and wrong, should it ever be on DT.

Supporting Putins war with Kremlin Propaganda and selling it as "facts". (see my quote in the reference link).
Helping to normalize an ongoing war is a shame. For a while thandie has been a disgusting troll abusing the forum with his off-topic spam.
I addition he's trying to discredit my efforts to help raise funds for civilians in Ukraine.

Shitposting Bitcointalk with low quality spam all day; then openly accusing me for off-topic shitposting...
The value Koal-84 is contributing to the forum is vanishingly small. The only occasion when his posts are getting longer is to find excuses for Russia's war against Ukraine. Disgusting behaviour from Koal-84! Avoid this Account to steer clear from unnecessary spam and derangement most probably caused due to paid signature campaigns.

Low value shitposts, spam, burst posting and excessive pyramid-quotes (61052011, 61145452 or 61021354).
In addition, amishmanish downplayed Putin's war by repeatedly spreading pro-russian lies (60250177).
It's discouraged to support such a behaviour by accepting such accounts into signature campaigns.

Some of his "political related" feedback is actually negative.

Also, I was contacted by someone who is also a victim of 1miau's DT punishment, with a clear message of 1miau's threatening him with his DT power purely for political disagreement, unfortunately, that person is afraid of 1miau punishment and asked me not to reveal his name in public, I am willing to send the conversation via PM to trusted DT members so they can review it.

[1miau]

Some of his "political related" feedback is actually negative.

That's not negative, that's neutral. Your repeated lies are helping no one. 


That's negative and that's deserved:



There is no abuse with negative feedback

Also, I was contacted by someone who is also a victim of 1miau's DT punishment, with a clear message of 1miau's threatening him with his DT power purely for political disagreement, unfortunately, that person is afraid of 1miau punishment and asked me not to reveal his name in public, I am willing to send the conversation via PM those trusted DT members so they can review it.

I know who this is, it's our plagiarizer friend MinoRaiola who deserves to get banned for his plagiarism.
Unfortunately he got away with it which is a big shame because considering that plagiarism isn't something we should take too easy, this deserves a harsh penalty.

Still, nothing.
Here's the whole discussion: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1926895.msg61730022#msg61730022
He thinks that he can get away with it because:

The postings are 2 years old and sometimes I can not remember what I did a week ago :-) depends how intense/crazy the week was  

Awww, because he can't remember what he did a week ago...  

Currently, he seems to abuse his own giveaway as well by changing his own rules after starting it.

I'll leave it up to anyone if someone wants to advocate for MinoRaiola who also abused positive trust to get his shitposter friends into DT and some fraudulent positive feedbacks: Dangerous and inappropriate use of Trust: giving positive Trust for Shitposters
He's distrusted for a reason by many DT members:

with a clear message of 1miau's threatening him with his DT power purely for political disagreement

If he said that, he's straight out lying as you can see from hist trust feedbacks what shady things he is involved in.

[yahoo62278]

Here is a small collection of 1miau sent feedback

Poly#Crypto is a troll account in our German local board. Doesn't provide any value for the forum - only spam, shitposts, inaccurate information and (of course) defamations and insults. Tries to find excuses for Putin's war.
This Troll account is usually not using the Trust system, the fraudulent feedback against my account is its first one. Consider the feedbacks left by this account as completely worthless and wrong, should it ever be on DT.

Supporting Putins war with Kremlin Propaganda and selling it as "facts". (see my quote in the reference link).
Helping to normalize an ongoing war is a shame. For a while thandie has been a disgusting troll abusing the forum with his off-topic spam.
I addition he's trying to discredit my efforts to help raise funds for civilians in Ukraine.

Shitposting Bitcointalk with low quality spam all day; then openly accusing me for off-topic shitposting...
The value Koal-84 is contributing to the forum is vanishingly small. The only occasion when his posts are getting longer is to find excuses for Russia's war against Ukraine. Disgusting behaviour from Koal-84! Avoid this Account to steer clear from unnecessary spam and derangement most probably caused due to paid signature campaigns.

Low value shitposts, spam, burst posting and excessive pyramid-quotes (61052011, 61145452 or 61021354).
In addition, amishmanish downplayed Putin's war by repeatedly spreading pro-russian lies (60250177).
It's discouraged to support such a behaviour by accepting such accounts into signature campaigns.

Some of his "political related" feedback is actually negative.

Also, I was contacted by someone who is also a victim of 1miau's DT punishment, with a clear message of 1miau's threatening him with his DT power purely for political disagreement, unfortunately, that person is afraid of 1miau punishment and asked me not to reveal his name in public, I am willing to send the conversation via PM to trusted DT members so they can review it.

I am not volunteering to have a look, but I would like to state that noone should be afraid to have an opinion and speak it for fear of retaliation. We are not always going to agree with each other, that's just life. Tagging someone for not thinking the same way as me would be ridiculous. DT shouldn't be trying to hold power over anyone here, shouldn't be threatening a tag if users don't conform, shouldn't be extorting money from users to save themselves a tag.

That being said, 1miau you might consider looking at your sent feedbacks and making some changes. I'm not telling you that you must do it, I am just asking you to take a look. Leaving a red for someone's opinion shouldn't happen and I see a couple of them on your page. Neutral at best and even then, it's not a trade so technically it's not a correct feedback to use.

I've been saying this forever now, we need a new system. We need the current feedback system for trades, and we need a feedback system for reputation. Look at my page, I have tagged a bunch for cheating campaign. Can those users be trusted? Nope, but I technically didn't engage in a trade so is my feedback correct? Serious question there. If people do not believe it is, what should be done instead of a tag?

[1miau]

That being said, 1miau you might consider looking at your sent feedbacks and making some changes. I'm not telling you that you must do it, I am just asking you to take a look. Leaving a red for someone's opinion shouldn't happen and I see a couple of them on your page. Neutral at best and even then, it's not a trade so technically it's not a correct feedback to use.

That's why I'm using neutral feedbacks instead of negative ones despite some members have received negative trusts for much less from other members. I'll always review my feedbacks and most feedbacks include a reference link, so people are able to read up on the issue, which is a very important part in my opinion. Feedback should just be like "hey, this topic is of interest when dealing with user xy, where it's worth to read up on".
Our troll KingScorpio got a negative trust for "I just don't trust him" and even that is a DT feedback.

I've been saying this forever now, we need a new system. We need the current feedback system for trades, and we need a feedback system for reputation. Look at my page, I have tagged a bunch for cheating campaign. Can those users be trusted? Nope, but I technically didn't engage in a trade so is my feedback correct? Serious question there. If people do not believe it is, what should be done instead of a tag?

That's an interesting suggestion and should be explored if that's possible to implement.
We also need a better approach to mitigate shitposting and trust farming as it's very easy currently to send some nice-guy feedbacks, especially Member or Full Member accounts, if they think to get that way into DT.

[mikeywith]

That's not negative, that's neutral.

 

   Spreading deceitful bullshit and advocating for Putler's invasion against Ukraine + expressing his support for the Russians to kill more people in Ukraine. Engagement in such criminal activity is far worse compared to scamming someone. By legitimazing the invasion, Snork1979 passively helps Putin to kill innocent Ukrainians (and Snork1979 seems to be even proud of it). This is as disgusting as it gets.

This is negative then.

Also, none of the neutral you left were right, you are punishing them for thier political opinions, and then adding some other b.s words like (troll, spam) just to cover for the original intention, you are abusing the feedback.

I won't reveal the victim's name, but he has some serious evidence of you extorting him to stop expressing his point of view in P&S in order for you to remove the tag.

It is so saddening that he can't post his accusations against you in public and he needs to secretly reach out to other DT members to protect him from you.

@yahoo I know not all DT folks would want to see the images and watch the video, which is why I wont be sending them to everyone, only to those who request them.

[1miau]

That's not negative, that's neutral.

 

   Spreading deceitful bullshit and advocating for Putler's invasion against Ukraine + expressing his support for the Russians to kill more people in Ukraine. Engagement in such criminal activity is far worse compared to scamming someone. By legitimazing the invasion, Snork1979 passively helps Putin to kill innocent Ukrainians (and Snork1979 seems to be even proud of it). This is as disgusting as it gets.

This is negative then.

This is negative and deserved or are you saying the feedbacks on his account are trust abuse? I don't think so.  
It's deserved after making my due diligence.
Have you researched the user in question before making your judgement?

Also, none of the neutral you left were right, you are punishing them for thier political opinions, and then adding some other b.s words like (troll, spam) just to cover for the original intention, you are abusing the feedback.

Everyone is responsible for the calls they are making on the forum and I'm allowed to point out anything as long as I'm not violating DT standards. If someone doesn't approve that, he can simply add me to their trust list but (no surprise) very few people did that.
Did you add me to your distrust list finally as you seem to disagree with me here? If yes, that would be totally ok for me because that's also a consequence of DT and if someone doesn't think that someone's feedbacks are apropriate.

I won't reveal the victim's name, but he has some serious evidence of you extorting him to stop expressing his point of view in P&S in order for you to remove the tag.

The evidence of their abuse is well known after he had a big clash in this topic, where these abusers tried to silence a member by reporting them to theymos: User: Unknown01 threatens me with a forum ban for saying my opinion
In addition, they are the sort of guys who are responsible that the forum gets spammed every day that they can earn their weekly sig rewards.
Contributions to the forum? Nothing!
Instead, we even get plagiarism and when we call them out, they'll get aggressive because they know we have a point when we are pointing out how they are milking the forum with their shitposts.

It is so saddening that he can't post his accusations against you in public and he needs to secretly reach out to other DT members to protect him from you.

Well, wonder why he doesn't do it? Because he would get quickly exposed, what he did over the years. Hiding is all they can do and hoping that the moderators don't enforce any of these rules, like plagiarism. The abusers know that they can get away with it, they know it, so they will continue. Step by step they are destroying the forum just to earn some sats every week.
I'm completely fed up when I see how the forum is going down, after putting a massive effort into my posts to provide some quality for the forum, that the forum stays relevant.
Doing tons of educational topics, providing tons of helpful advice, warning about tons of nasty mistakes we can do in Bitcoin, doing tons of giveaways to give out Bitcoin for those who don't have as much as we have and to attract new members to the forum. All this seems to be wasted effort, more and more and we have to stop this. Either we contribute or we shitpost. I'm in favor of contributing.

I'm completely fed up, how these shitposters are getting emboldened, how they are able to send the Merit to their shitposter friends for trash posts because they know they'll get away with it. This is a big issue in the German section and I'm ready address this.
I've invested too much time in the forum at this point and other nice members have invested much time as well.
Our lazy shitposters don't put any effort into it, they don't even try! They are ridiculing the seriousness of the issues if we address this because they know there will be someone who'll embolden them.
There are already very few new members, at least in the German section and shitposters is what we don't need at all.
Still, they are getting emboldened for their bullshit!

That's how the forum dies!!!

[mole0815]

I was also made aware of this thread and first had to sleep a night on it because I have already had a lot of experience with this drama.
I won't go into too much detail here because, to be honest, I don't have the nerves or the motivation.

Here is an example that I can show you because it was written in the appropriate language. If you understand German there are many more and then you would have already noticed that the behavior mentioned by mikeywith is a fact and it is not a question of whether different opinions (be it political, linguistic or whatever) are taken into account in evaluations and trusts.

And also I can confirm PN's of other users who don't want to mess with 1miau publicly (as that can have consequences if you don't want to damage your account here).
And I can also confirm that DT-Strength, the rules, the "Report to moderator" button and the linguistic superiority is used in many places to censor people who have different opinions (and no, it's not about right or wrong but simply different opinions)!

Especially the use of the "Report to moderator" button and not complying with all his wishes has made me 1miau's "persona non grata".
Anyone who hasn't noticed this yet will from now on at the latest.

And now - have a nice day and I am a friend of niceness, helpfulness and harmony... so I had to think long and hard about whether to join in here, but I swore to myself 1.5 years ago that I would address the topic at some point... and through this thread it has now come about.

//edit: Are these words that make neutral feedback appear neutral? Or were they only chosen or changed to neutral because negative would be against the rules? Do we actually have a history for comments left?
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=2143453:

Poly#Crypto is mentally ill like his friends s0nix + Koal-84, keep in mind when you are considering to trade. Would not risk any Satoshi.
Poly#Crypto is a piece of shit, supporting russian aggression: He has no problems when Russia started attacking Ukraine, and Russians are committing war crimes but Poly#Crypto has problems when Ukrainians defend themselves. How should we trust such an asshole? See also previous feedback.

It's not about the opinion he or you had. It's just about the way people treat each other here in the forum and Poly#Crypto unfortunately left the forum after that.
Or s0nix, who also left after this statement. I don't know the two of them personally and have never been in contact with them outside of the forum, but as an attentive observer there have unfortunately been some very bad scenes surrounding various disputes: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5404157.msg60465020#msg60465020

[digaran]

Regarding the negative feedback, which I've sent to digaran, that's quite simple: if there's no reason to leave a feedback or the feedback is simply a false claim, then, the feedback is not appropriate. But for this case, there have been 4 red tags already. So, if that would be trust abuse, there would be 5 people abusing trust.
For trust entries, DT trust feedback standards apply accordingly.  
As always, we have to review the context.

I'm only quoting this part, according to you, if someone has 4 negative trust, they must be there for right reasons?
Can you show me your reason? Or in your opinion I don't have any rights to ask that?
This mind set is like, "if someone got stabbed 4 times, it's Ok to put him out of his misery by stabbing him for the fifth time, after all it was according to the standards"

I see no difference, 1miau refuses to provide any reasonable evidence, is constantly on the look out for approvals from other members, because he lacks the ability to judge people on his own.

If you read his posts, you realize why he is not fit to be on DT, you should read unedited posts though.

Edit, @mole0815, strength in numbers.👏

[mikeywith]

This is negative and deserved or are you saying the feedbacks on his account are trust abuse? I don't think so.  
It's deserved after making my due diligence.
Have you researched the user in question before making your judgement?

Yes i have, and i see no signs of bad trades, you never put any reference to it, your only excuse is that fact the he is a pro-Russian.

you for some fucking reason think that you alone can decide what proper feedback is, you need to wake up and smell the coffe, this is not your personal forum, you can not tag people for politic related shit.


Now for the victim, it looks like you are trying to justify yourself even before knowing who is the victim who sent me the proof of your extortion.

Have you ever offered to trade the removal of your feedback in return for someone to stop posting pro russian content in P&S?  The proof they sent me show exactly that, I have no clue what plans you have on denying those.

That's how the forum dies!!!

The forum dies when people are afraid to say anything that you don't like, it dies when you use a feature that was made to make the forum safer for trading as a tool to practice your hegemony.

@mole0815

So he reports posts for simply disagreeing with his views? Lol, seems like 1miau does not spare a single tool to punish everyone he does not like.

[mole0815]

@mole0815
So he reports posts for simply disagreeing with his views? Lol, seems like 1miau does not spare a single tool to punish everyone he does not like.

Yes.

Or exclude people with different opinions from competitions.

So, aus aktuellem Anlass wegen der abstrusen Kommentare von coco23 sehe ich keine Grundlage mehr, wie eine weitere Teilnahme am Gewinnspiel förderlich wäre.

Translated by deepl.com

So, due to the abstruse comments from coco23, I no longer see any basis for further participation in the competition.

Strictly speaking, it's certainly allowed, but is that how it's done? I wouldn't do it.

However, I can confirm the things mentioned here in this thread and I don't need to say much more.
Feedback, Trust and also "Report to moderator" were certainly never intended for what they were unfortunately (very!) often used for.

[1miau]

The forum dies when people are afraid to say anything that you don't like, it dies when you use a feature that was made to make the forum safer for trading as a tool to practice your hegemony.

This statement is very cheap coming from someone who wants to dictate me, how I have to use the DT system, how I have to compile my DT list and dictate everything related to that. You are not in any position to dictate how I use DT, you are not in any position to dictate how anyone uses DT!

I was also made aware of this thread and first had to sleep a night on it because I have already had a lot of experience with this drama.

Nice to have you here, mole0815, I woudn't expect anything different from you after you already abused your forum moderator position for covering their abuses recently.
You have removed some of their plagiarism posts after I've reported them that these abusers don't get any punishment.
You are emboldening them by patting them on the back that their shitposts are fine and that's why the whole German section is going down.
As said before already:
You are a lazy prick who has lied all the way, also to discredit me with the final goal to turn the German section into a shitposting paradise.
You've shitposted massively yourself in your ChipMixer days and surprisingly, your post count is much lower now, which coincided exactly with when the campaign ended.  
You are a wasel enabler and this is known for a very long time to everyone who folowed your moderation practices.

You didn't act against simple rules abuses when your shitposter friends did clear rule violations, which I reported.
Back to back shitposts, and the moderator is sleeping, marking ma reports as "negative":



What a pathetic moderation practive.
Yes, I'm vocal about your abuses as a moderator and your abuses as a pathetic liar and shitposter enabler.

Translated by deepl.com

So, due to the abstruse comments from coco23, I no longer see any basis for further participation in the competition.

Look at the rules, my competitions are quite clear.
Do you believe I want to give my valuable BTC to
Of course I will add certain rules to prevent these cheap ass trolls from getting some of my BTC for free and distribute it to deserving members instead.
Those, who are grateful to get some BTC, those who aren't abusing the forum for a few satoshit every week.
Why, WHY should I distribute any BTC to those, who are sprading hate and lies against me? WHY?
Tell me ONE reason!

The amount of BTC I've given to the community is unprecedented.

Your blind hate is truly disgusting, so thanks for showing everyone here what your moderation practices really are.
Instread of advocating for a good posting quality, you are enabling trolls, shitposters and other abusers because you are well part of their gang!

As said before:
I was doing tons of educational topics, providing tons of helpful advice, warning about tons of nasty mistakes we can do in Bitcoin, doing tons of giveaways to give out Bitcoin for those who don't have as much as we have and to attract new members to the forum. All this seems to be wasted effort, more and more and we have to stop this. Either we contribute or we shitpost. I'm in favor of contributing.

I'm completely fed up, how these shitposters are getting emboldened, how they are able to send the Merit to their shitposter friends for trash posts because they know they'll get away with it. This is a big issue in the German section and I'm ready address this.
I've invested too much time in the forum at this point and other nice members have invested much time as well.
Our lazy shitposters don't put any effort into it, they don't even try! They are ridiculing the seriousness of the issues if we address this because they know there will be someone who'll embolden them.
There are already very few new members, at least in the German section and shitposters is what we don't need at all.
Still, they are getting emboldened for their bullshit!

That's how the forum dies!!!

[Timelord2067]

There's quite a few users such as the one the OP mentions who are manipulating the DT trust system with coersion and false claims.

I can hear knives being sharpened.

[mole0815]

You are a lazy prick who has lied all the way, also to discredit me with the final goal to turn the German section into a shitposting paradise.

I'm not going to let you take this to a personal level.
My opinion has been expressed and this is not the right place for the issues that are likely to come up.

You didn't act against simple rules abuses when your shitposter friends did clear rule violations, which I reported.
Back to back shitposts, and the moderator is sleeping, marking ma reports as "negative".

Congratulations on finding my mod-mistake in a mass thread from 2 months ago.

If you are not satisfied with my work as a moderator, the meta subboard including public discussion about it would be the appropriate place.
This thread is about "Is 1miau fit for DT?" and not your dislike of me or other opinions.

[MinoRaiola]

Also, we have a particular case in hand, this is not the best place to discuss other members.

I understand why you are writing all this and you are not alone, there are more users.

Lets take his current actions in this thread as an example. He picks out every negative thing about me, you could call it narcissistic. We are all human, not machines controlled by AI. We have emotions and feelings and sometimes we are driven by our passion. What kind of boring and negative life would we lead otherwise? Mh, we can ask him, maybe he knows.

I dont want to call myself a Samaritan, but I was called a war supporter by him (wtf?). I invested a lot of money and time and brought food, clothes and other things for human in the Ukraine, who fled to poland. You chan show it here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5388472.msg60458056#msg60458056
And I offert many apartments, daily 3 times fresh food and German lessons. Even a user here icopress, he can confirm that. I wanted to helped his family or friends, but it never happened. I dont want to go into any more detail, then I could write a book.

There are other users on the German board who ignore him because of his actions. This user are smart and cool guys, but he also attacks her. We now only let him talk (write), a few have tried to explain his crazy attitude to him, all to no avail.

A few examples of the opinions of users from the German local - you are not alone and there are more and more. If you would like to see them, I will look them all up over the last few years.

[1miau]

There's quite a few users such as the one the OP mentions who are manipulating the DT trust system with coersion and false claims.

I'm not guilty of that but you are.  

You are a lazy prick who has lied all the way, also to discredit me with the final goal to turn the German section into a shitposting paradise.

I'm not going to let you take this to a personal level.

I will tell it everyone here how it is, mole0815.
You have zero chance after all your cover-ups of this shit.

I have invested so much time to provide quality to the forum.
I have invested so much BTC to give everyone a little of my sig campaign earnings, while you have done NOTHING in your ChipMixer days except shitposting as much as you could.
You were openly spreading lies about me, when covering Unknown01, who tried to silence one of the German members by reporting him to theymos for simply saying his opinion. Who's silencing anyone?
The big problem is: some of our trolls aren't able to face any criticism. When they are being criticized, they are playing the victim card, that there would be "opression", that they are being "silenced".
They are not getting "silenced", they just can't handle criticism.  
And of course I will add rules that I'm not bothered that these abusers will fill their bags due to my generosity!

Still, you are shitting on all these achievements.

Lets take his current actions in this thread as an example. He picks out every negative thing about me.

It's not difficult at all to find negative things about you.
Normally, in a well and principled moderated forum, you would be banned long ago for your plagiarism.

A few examples of the opinions of users from the German local - you are not alone and there are more and more. If you would like to see them, I will look them all up over the last few years.

Thanks for showing who you are.
Let the hate flow through you.
Are you proud that you stepping up now to achieve your goal now of shitposting without consequences in the German section?
Well, we already know that this was possible to a certain degree right now, with mole0815 enabling you.  

[Timelord2067]

Add vendetta to coercion and false claims (not to mention getteting their *cough * facts skewered or back-to-front)

E.G.

I'm not guilty of that but you are

[mindrust]

No u.

*popcorn.gif

[mole0815]

I will tell it everyone here how it is, mole0815.
You have zero chance after all your cover-ups of this shit.

I have invested so much time to provide quality to the forum.
I have invested so much BTC to give everyone a little of my sig campaign earnings, while you have done NOTHING in your ChipMixer days except shitposting as mucb as you could.
You were openly spreading lies about me, when covering Unknown01, who tried to silence one of the German members by reporting him to theymos for simply saying his opinion. Who's silencing anyone?
The big problem is: some of our trools aren't able to face any criticism. When they are being criticized, they are playing the victim card, the there would be "opression", that they are being "silinced".
They are not getting "silenced", they just can't handle criticism.  
And of course I will add rules that I'm not bothered that these abusers will fill their bags due to my generosity!

Still, you are shitting on all these achievements.

I disagree with that because it is simply not true.
Unfortunately, your way of expressing yourself repeatedly does not correspond to any netiquette that I know of

If you are not satisfied with my work as a moderator, the meta subboard including public discussion about it would be the appropriate place.
This thread is about "Is 1miau fit for DT?" and not your dislike of me or other opinions.

There is nothing more to say for now and if there is, then please post it in a separate thread where you can accuse me of everything.
But please 1. not here and 2. including concrete information and evidence so that we can talk about it in a meaningful way.

[LoyceV]

Lying again 1miau?

But the only thing you are able to is to repeat the same bullshit again and again

This seems pointless. The two of you won't be able to resolve this any time soon.

it's always important to find a peaceful solution, to stop name-calling, to stop pouring oil in the fire.

Or, if a solution is futile: let it be. Ignore each other and move on. You can't agree with everyone on the internet, and that's okay. There's no need to agree. I'm tempted to start a "let's fight on controversial subjects" topic, but that wouldn't be very Switzerland to do.

I am not going to entertain you anymore.

Great! But why didn't your post stop right there?

Do you think it's fine to use the trust system against others for political disagreements?

Let me answer that by quoting theymos out of context:

In borderline cases, it should result in something of a political battle.

[Timelord2067]

Now the thin skinned DT Trolls are rallying around their kin.

Have you checked his trust feedback?

Definitely time to (grow a pair) show some leadership for this democracy of yours...

1maiu needs a Tilda for their trust feedback.

[1miau]

Lying again 1miau?

But the only thing you are able to is to repeat the same bullshit again and again

This seems pointless. The two of you won't be able to resolve this any time soon.

it's always important to find a peaceful solution, to stop name-calling, to stop pouring oil in the fire.

Or, if a solution is futile: let it be. Ignore each other and move on. You can't agree with everyone on the internet, and that's okay. There's no need to agree. I'm tempted to start a "let's fight on controversial subjects" topic, but that wouldn't be very Switzerland to do.

I can definitely agree to your approach as I'm always someone, who's open to give someone the benefit of doubt.
If someone doesn't like me, my trust list compilation, my trust entries, that's fine. Voice your opinion and vote me out of DT.

I would not care less, it's how DT works.
And I will accept whatever decision DT will come up with.

After all, DT is a decentralized system.
Who does not submite his vote, should not complain.

So yes, I'm open to fullfill the suggestion from LoyceV.

[Timelord2067]

This popped corn sure does need more butter.

Pass the salt, please.

[mikeywith]

This is not a personal issue between 1miau and I where it would end by one of us walking away, it isn't -- there is an obvious trust system abuse that need to be addressed.

1miau went to the extent of extorting other people, their silence in P&S for feedback removal, so what do you suggest, I should lock the topic and let 1miau abuse his DT position?

Edited: quotation order mistake

[LoyceV]

there is an obvious trust system abuse that need to be addressed.

In that case: there's far too much jitter in this topic to quickly see how obvious it is.

[mole0815]

So yes, I'm open to fullfill the suggestion from LoyceV.

100x suggested in various places and so far you have never accepted the ignore button because it does not solve the actual problem. But now it would help you here, so it is welcome

As I said, let's leave out the interpersonal aspects because, as you've said several times, you don't like me.
And I am a person who can live with that and will never put you on ignore because in my role as moderator I am responsible for all posts written.
mole0815 is not the topic here. This is purely about 1miau fit for DT? and the question of what the DT system does in such cases.

Unfortunately, I have a great weakness and that is not being able to stop saying something... but now I'll give it a try since everything has already been said by me on this topic.
And I almost dare to bet that the other issue (something about me or my role as a moderator) will soon get its own thread anyway.

[1miau]

This is not a personal issue between 1miau and I where it would end by one of us walking away, it isn't -- there is an obvious trust system abuse that need to be addressed.

If you think, it's a trust system abuse (which is a serious accusation) feel free to vote me out of DT.
If someone else thinks, it's a trust system abuse, they can do the same.

On the other hand, you can imagine that I'm not someone who'll accept any interference in my trust list compilation or my sent feedback.
Going after me personally, is what you have done repeatedly in this thread, even after there were reasonable solutions how to selttle this, showing that you have a big hate against me and that's what driving you accusations against me. You might not agree how I use trust but you have to accept it, that this is my decision. If you think that is right or wrong, you can express this by voting me out. Other can do as well if they think so.
Resorting to name-calling doesn't help anyone.
On the other hand:
I believe you are trying to dictate and "punish" me (LOL) for adding you on my distrust list and how I use the neutral trust. If you disapprove that, vote me out of DT, as I'll keep you out of my trust list because your judgement is horrible in my opinion. Everyone is entitled to make their opinion themselves.

So, let DT decide this.
The whole decision is not to us, decision is to be made by the whole DT.
Simpe solution, how DT should be working anyways.

And everyone has to accept the decision of DT and live with it.

So yes, I'm open to fullfill the suggestion from LoyceV.

100x suggested in various places and so far you have never accepted the ignore button because it does not solve the actual problem. But now it would help you here, so it is welcome

If there are accusations against me, I'll address them.

mole0815 is not the topic here. This is purely about 1miau fit for DT? and the question of what the DT system does in such cases.

When you are showing up here, mole0815, I will address this, of course.
I'm allowed to voice my opinion in a civil manner, that's not controversial.

And I almost dare to bet that the other issue (something about me or my role as a moderator) will soon get its own thread anyway.

I'm not here to cause a big drama, I'm known for bringing good contributions to Bitcointalk.  
Because I consider that causing unnecessary drama is also something, that DT will consider in their decisions.

However, I will accept either outcome what DT decides.

I could not care less if I'm DT or not. If someone doesn't like my DT position, remove me, if someone think, I'm valuable in DT, add me.
This is so simple and I'll accept either call from DT. That's how a decentralized system should be treated.

[mikeywith]

100x suggested in various places and so far you have never accepted the ignore button because it does not solve the actual problem. But now it would help you here, so it is welcome

Exactly, he wants a free pass, he keeps accepting and proposing peace terms as if this was a personal misunderstanding between the two of us.

Now more and more people are showing up to express their opinions and tell their stories of how 1miau has punished them to satisfy his ego.

He is counting on the fact that many DT members just want to stay out of trouble and thus won't engage here or will stay neutral, but as long as we keep fighting oppression -- it will stop one day.

[1miau]

100x suggested in various places and so far you have never accepted the ignore button because it does not solve the actual problem. But now it would help you here, so it is welcome

Exactly, he wants a free pass, he keeps accepting and proposing peace terms as if this was a personal misunderstanding between the two of us.

Thanks for showing that you are not accepting any DT decision that doesn't favor your selfish outcome.
You are not the one to dictate how I have to compile my trust list and how I use DT! That's my decision, no matter if you approve it or disapprove it.
That's a decentralized DT decision and we have to accept either outcome.

If I'm removed, I'll have to accept that and we part ways to avoid drama.
If I'm not removed, you'll have to accept that and we part ways to avoid drama.
If you are removed, you'll have to accept that and we part ways to avoid drama.
If you are not removed, I'll have to accept that and we part ways to avoid drama.

That's a big part of DT to accept either outcome of the community.
Less drama, more community decision, which we have to accept.

[digaran]

@1miau, accept my condolences, from now on you will receive an updated neg trust from TL every few month or so, he is extremely sensitive about extortion.
To all other involved parties, if you have already presented your evidence, please refrain from discussing unrelated issues with this trust abuser.

After all, nobody has the right to dictate and or criticize his shady behaviour, using trust system to make up for his lack of intelligence.

Also an advice to any forum staff, please understand that you are the hands of this body, so whatever you do or say, will reflect back to this body. Stay neutral no matter what.


I bet not only 1miau will receive no red tag for being a trust abuser, but some DTs will even keep him on their trust lists. After all it's a decentralized system, right? And according to admin's quote being presented here by our "neutral" DT member, it's a political battle, but is it only between DTs? What about innocent bystanders? How can we fight in this battle if the only thing required to get on DT is a few bucks worth of trades and a few alt accounts?

That's not a battle, that's a foreplay among a few garbage posters before the orgy begins.

Some of the DT members are so corrupted that they literally don't care about any abuse and injustice, as long as it doesn't involve them.

I swear to God almighty, even if theymos comes here and says 1miau is right, 90% of DT  members will ignore the facts and move on.  Because they know nothing better, for all we know they are mostly immature teenagers with not enough experience, they just found a way to game this forum.
To all other victims, don't be afraid and speak up. (Why do I feel this just turned into hollywood where celebrities came and confessed to being sexually harassed by rich and powerful people?, except being rich here means signature campaign earnings, and powerful means being on DT, I hope we never see any sexual harassment claims).😉

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

1- He asked me to remove my positive feedback on his profile because of the political disagreement. (first red flag on his incompetence of being a DT member)  

I responded to him and told him to take it easy, I did not remove the feedback because it has nothing to do with our political disagreement, but despite all that, I just assumed that he was "mad" and the next day he would come to his senses, but I was wrong.

2- The next thing he did, he removed positive feedback he left for another forum member, a member who also commented on the same topic (who also happened to disagree with 1miau's political views.

3- He removed me from his trust list despite being on it since 2019 as far as I remember.

4- He added me to his "distrust" list.

5- He suddenly remembered to tag this user who also happened to disagree with his political views on the same topic, you could argue that his feedback was correct, but given the timing, it's an obvious retaliation, that user has been tagged since 2018, well the reference he used goes back to 2018, why tag him right after he disagrees with you on a political matter?

I was not expecting such things from any of you, especially not from 1miau. This is not the conclusion but just a start for me to go though the whole story. Once I have read everything then I may give some of my opinion but in general

[1.] Trust feedback has nothing to do with political view. If political view reflects in trust feedback then many people will not openly and freely express their political view.
[2.] The trust inclusion and exclusion also should not be based on someone's political view.

Hitler can be a villain for the history but for his people and those supported him, he was the Hero. All wars have two sides of story. You will always find the valid reasoning for the side you are in.

[1miau]

@digaran, thanks for pouring more oil into the fire!
That's always helpful in a discussion!

Hitler can be a villain for the history but for his people and those supported him, he was the Hero. All wars have two sides of story.

As a German I can tell you that this approach is, well... catastrophic.
If you read up on WWII and Hitler.

[KaosanRoad]

Please people, drop the Nazi/Racist/Hitler stuff. I doubt anyone is a Nazi here.  
You can argue and scream at each other, but calling other people a Nazi is not nice.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

As a German I can tell you that this approach is, well... catastrophic.

It proves my point either way. I used it as an example and we know it's not the topic at all. I am working on understanding everything between you two in my own way to see if mikeywith's observations are true or from a manipulated mind.

[mikeywith]

I am working on understanding everything between you two in my own way to see if mikeywith's observations are true or from a manipulated mind.

It's rather simple, 1miau is not denying any of the accusations, he simply thinks that it is perfectly fine to use the trust system (both the trust list and the feedback) for the sole purpose of expressing his political views.

Here is an example of a negative feedback he left on someone's profile

Spreading deceitful bullshit and advocating for Putler's invasion against Ukraine + expressing his support for the Russians to kill more people in Ukraine. Engagement in such criminal activity is far worse compared to scamming someone. By legitimazing the invasion, Snork1979 passively helps Putin to kill innocent Ukrainians (and Snork1979 seems to be even proud of it). This is as disgusting as it gets.

His sent feedback is full of other examples,  1miau still believes that he has the right to leave this kind of feedback, I think they are unjustified and that he should refrain from expressing his political b.s on other people's feedback pages.


It gets even worse the more you dig into his actions, the victim who contacted me privately because he was afraid of expressing his complaint in public sent me a screenshot of a conversation between him and 1miau, I can't post the exact words 1miau sent because I promised the victim not to reveal his name, but if you are interested I will send the evidence via pm, but rephrasing what 1miau sent him

"I may remove my feedback IF you stop posting your views on P&S"

The moderator of the German board has also confirmed getting PMs from victims who are afraid to express their opinion because they fear 1miau punishment, I am also sure the more we leave this topic open the more victims will come to complain.

And the root cause of all this is that 1miau thinks he is entitled to use the trust system to silence those who have a different political opinion, this would have not dragged this long if 1miau admitted that using the trust system to punish others this way is wrong, deleted all the political b.s feedback he left and promised not to do it again, but he did none of that and he still believes he has the right to all of this.

I am not trying to ruin 1miau reputation, he is doing a great job in that aspect alone anyway, I want us as a community to protect the helpless from this "hegemony", the fact that some people are afraid to post in P&S just because people like 1miau would exclude them and tag them is enough evidence that he is not using the trust system that way it should be, at least that is my opinion but if the community thinks it's perfectly fine to use the trust system the same way 1miau uses it -- then let's all agree to it.

Let's tag each other based on our political views and no one should come here to complain about getting tagged for his political views, it's either everyone gets the same privilege or nobody gets it, otherwise, this is just a broken trust system that does more harm than good to the community.

[1miau]

Neutral trust is not controversial at all like you are going to paint it here. Everyone can read up on the issue or are you the one here who's trying to stifle the right to point this out via reference links, where everyone can read up on the issue?
I think everyone is capable to make their own decision and research about this and can judge accordingly.

What you are calling "intimidate others via PM": it's not allowed to try to sort out issues via PM first before bringing the big hammer in Reputation?
You might interprete that as "intimidating" but in reality this is a chance to avoid big drama, to sort it out via PM. But we know this, some people here like the big drama, especially trolls. Keep feeding them!
Of course, we can jump right to the drama in Reputation and intimidate people here if they do something you don't like, like adding you to their distrust list, like you "punished" me for adding you there.  
Now we know that if someone will disagree with you and add you to their distrust list, they are at risk to get a slap in the face from you with a big drama in Reputation!
That's whats intimidating and punishing, not trying to solve the issue via PM!

Also read up about the abuse on the German section. I've linked the topics already, where these shitposters are involved in all sorts of abuse, yesterday.
Most of the level-headed members in the German section have given in to the abusers or are gone. Because plagiarism is not enforced, because political troll Spam is derailing the discussions on purpose, because its funny to throw the Ukrainians under the bus, because shitposting is stylish and profitable and much more and in case someone dares to criticize this, he will be met with accusations from the very same shitposters to be against their right of expression. They are always playing the victim card.
I've contacted a longtime member of the german section this morning on Telegram, linked him the discussion and he said that these folks are completely lost. I had to agree to him as he's totally right.
Of course, he doesn't want to comment in the German section anymore as any criticism of our abusers, whose feedback you can see in my feedback list, will be met with harsh force. Yet, they are playing the victim card and you are enabling them.

It's up to you if you enable proven abusers and plagiarizers on the Forum because that will destroy the forum.
Consider their lies, read up about their past abuses!

Thats why I've left the neutral feedbacks with reference links on their accounts!!!

[digaran]

I am working on understanding everything between you two in my own way to see if mikeywith's observations are true or from a manipulated mind.

But you didn't work on anything to understand my observations regarding jollygood abuse, you immediately posted and accused him of abuse and harassment, why? Because you had problems with him, right?
I wonder did you see my topic on him with the same excuses as jollygood or you saw it but just ignored it because you and 1 miau are trust buddies?
What was that you posted once? To sin is to stay silent etc, doesn't that slogan apply here, or it's good to use when it's in your interest to show everyone what a great person you are?
This community is an embarrassment because of a few abnormal individuals, the only way forward is to take swift and decisive actions, when everyone does that after seeing provable abuse, there will be no more abuse, why? Because everyone will be aware of the consequences, but now if people stay indifferent, those abusers take such inactions as a permit to keep doing it over and over.

But believe me, there will be consequences whether we take action or not.
Can someone give some candy to this childman? He thinks he is the guardian angel and without him we are doomed, I don't know how he managed to get more than 6000 merits, but after seeing the other abnormal case of someone having twice that amount, I am not surprised at all.

Weasels are masters of deception.🧐

[icopress]

After the introduction of the flag system, red feedback can serve for other "overconfident things (c)". I have always been surprised how everyone vehemently quotes the admin’s phrase in which he talks about the correct use of the feedback system, referring to “trading risks,” but everyone forgets that the feedback system was created for the community and works only thanks to it.

By the way, I am the first to leave negative feedback to this user, because I am deeply convinced that he deserves it, since his rude nationalist statements and repeated calls for the murder of other people are one of the worst things that can happen in our community. And based on this, I am convinced that if he had the opportunity to take away any material property from you or me with impunity, he would do it without any hesitation, so yes ... my tag addressed to this user will remain red, since I believe that this is more than a “trading risk”.

It's rather simple, 1miau is not denying any of the accusations, he simply thinks that it is perfectly fine to use the trust system (both the trust list and the feedback) for the sole purpose of expressing his political views.

Here is an example of a negative feedback he left on someone's profile

Spreading deceitful bullshit and advocating for Putler's invasion against Ukraine + expressing his support for the Russians to kill more people in Ukraine. Engagement in such criminal activity is far worse compared to scamming someone. By legitimazing the invasion, Snork1979 passively helps Putin to kill innocent Ukrainians (and Snork1979 seems to be even proud of it). This is as disgusting as it gets.

1- He asked me to remove my positive feedback on his profile because of the political disagreement. (first red flag on his incompetence of being a DT member)  [...]

4- He added me to his "distrust" list.

Using my own example, I can say that I asked some users at least three times to remove both neutral and positive feedback simply because I did not agree with it. And after I put forward my arguments, these feedbacks were deleted. If he asked you to do this, he probably had a reason.

The other side of the coin is that the system of checks and balances of the trust system allows you to make subjective adjustments to personal trust lists, regardless of the opinion of a particular user... moreover, this does not require anyone's permission. And if at some point 1m' stopped trusting your feedback (even if it was positive), then he had every right to do so.

Moreover... if I asked you to remove positive feedback from which I did not agree, and if you refused me... then I would definitely add you to my list of mistrust at least so that this feedback ceased to be visible to me.

5- He suddenly remembered to tag this user who also happened to disagree with his political views on the same topic, you could argue that his feedback was correct, but given the timing, it's an obvious retaliation, that user has been tagged since 2018, well the reference he used goes back to 2018, why tag him right after he disagrees with you on a political matter?

We are all human, and most of us, if not all, are quite selfish about other people's problems, so I take this situation as a "catalyst" for getting involved in this matter. And given that you mentioned that the feedback was correct, then I think there is nothing more to discuss here.

[Tiger Fist]

You couldn't care less but as we know from islamist extremists,

Who are the "we" here? It's only you.

they'll force their believes on others at any price.

Where did you get this idea? It seems you are suffering from Islamophobia.

You both should have a thick skin. Mr. mikeywith should avoided creating such a drama thread.

I saw you both were friends before this drama. Couldn't you have handled this in another way?
I have some friends from different religions, we all are friends. We don't criticize other's beliefs. Now if you want to use your power to shut their mouth, you are the abuser.

[1miau]

You couldn't care less but as we know from islamist extremists,

Who are the "we" here? It's only you.

they'll force their believes on others at any price.

Where did you get this idea? It seems you are suffering from Islamophobia.

I'm not against any religion, I'm against people abusing their religion.
Islamic extremism doesn't mean Islam.
Christianity doesn't mean "let's repeat the crusades".
But as said by mikeywith, it's not helpful to start a P&S discussion here. We have some nice replies in that topic, how P&S discussions are creating big, big drama.  
We have different believes and of course, that's very legitimate.  

[digaran]

We are all human, and most of us, if not all, are quite selfish about other people's problems, so I take this situation as a "catalyst" for getting involved in this matter. And given that you mentioned that the feedback was correct, then I think there is nothing more to discuss here.

Oh hey, nice of you to visit this topic to defend your buddy, after all, you 2 are merit-buddies, am I right?
Such a great DT1, but did mikeywith said that feedback was correct and justified? Or is that your own opinion?
What the hell, Ok, do you have any evidence of me scamming people, lying and trolling or you are just accusing me of the same? If you don't have, then you are accusing me without any evidence, expected behaviour from merit-buddies.

But let me give an example which is only understandable for normie merit-trust buddies, imagine someone is released from prison, walking on a street and talking about politics with his friends, a *police officer hears the conversation and since he disagrees with that opinion, he then goes to arrest him for the same thing he already did the time for it in prison, what is your verdict for that police officer and such a system that allows that to happen?
Enlighten us with your wisdom.
*= such police officers deserve a public and naked walk of shame and being removed from the force.

Btw, did you just say you tagged someone because they were rude nationalists? And therefore a scammer? Well you are just simply not fit to judge people, maybe you'd like to do that while you are not a DT, to see if anyone cares about your feed back.

[mikeywith]

After the introduction of the flag system, red feedback can serve for other "overconfident things (c)".

Who decides that?

but everyone forgets that the feedback system was created for the community and works only thanks to it

That is the issue, it works for some and doesn't for others, it certainly does not work for the person who has to trade his freedom of expression to avoid the feedback from 1miau, if I were to be selfish and look at my own status and stop there, well great, the trust system works perfectly, but when I get PMs from people telling me they are afraid to even talk about 1miau or else they would lose their signature campaign income or ability to trade -- it sure doesn't work.

We are all human, and most of us, if not all, are quite selfish about other people's problems, so I take this situation as a "catalyst" for getting involved in this matter. And given that you mentioned that the feedback was correct, then I think there is nothing more to discuss here.

Just for the record, I did not mention that the feedback was correct, in fact, I highly agree with nutildah take on this issue.

I'm of the opinion that people shouldn't be negged today for 5-year-old offenses, especially if they already have a negative (or more than one) for the offense.

1miau also admitted that he gave him a pass before, but only decided to tag him right after his political opinion was made public, had digaran not expressed his political opinion 1miau's would have not given him that feedback.


Since you are a campaign manager, let me ask you something (a question to all campaign managers), if someone had negative feedback from 1miau for being pro-Russian or a Pro-puerto Rican for that matter, applied to a campaign you run, would you even consider looking at his post quality with that negative feedback?

I am asking because I strongly believe that the signature campaign is the backbone of all this, the vast majority of forum members don't trade, but almost everyone wants to be in a signature campaign.

I think we could spare the forum at least 90% of the trust system drama if ALL campaign managers start evaluating participants only based on post quality with no consideration for feedback, this way nobody will be afraid of expressing their opinion on any subject, because the current system is directly tied to money, people have to keep their mouth shut to earn some BTC, otherwise, I am sure many people would not bother having negative feedback from 1maiu for example as long as they can still participate in signature campaigns, and ya 1miau (for instance) gets to satisfy his ego by painting every profile he dislikes and probably nobody would complain about it.

But until that happens, being a DT member means you have a lot of power, enough power to dictate who gets to make money and who does not, and as long as someone has that much power -- it's no longer a matter of " it's up to me to exclude, or tag people for things that I personally see fit".

[Timelord2067]

What a car crash this thread has become since I last logged in last night.


I'll wait a few days, but it's looking more like the subject of this thread will be Tildaed by me because of their inaccurate trust feedbacks.

Same as the other two I've expressed concern over this month (TSC and Yahoo) whose own trust feedbacks are inaccurate / spiteful etc .

[yahoo62278]

If I'm removed, I'll have to accept that and we part ways to avoid drama.
If I'm not removed, you'll have to accept that and we part ways to avoid drama.
If you are removed, you'll have to accept that and we part ways to avoid drama.
If you are not removed, I'll have to accept that and we part ways to avoid drama.

After reading this I want to be up front and sat that I decided to ~ both of you for the time being. It's been 3 days and 5 pages of back n forth drama between you 2 with noone backing down or trying to come to a suitable outcome and end the drama. Both of you just seem intent on proving your points without resolving anything.

I do not dislike either of you, nor do I want to see this continue. IMO DT needs to be more rational and open to change as well as level headed and fair. Neither of you 2 are being this right now. Just a bunch of i'm right, no i'm right bs.

I hope you guys work it out at some point, but that's not looking like it'll happen. Might be time to ignore each other and go on with life.

What a car crash this thread has become since I last logged in last night.


I'll wait a few days, but it's looking more like the subject of this thread will be Tildaed by me because of their inaccurate trust feedbacks.

Same as the other two I've expressed concern over this month (TSC and Yahoo) whose own trust feedbacks are inaccurate / spiteful etc .

Do what you need to do. I'm ok in or out of DT.

[digaran]

but when I get PMs from people telling me they are afraid to even talk about 1miau or else they would lose their signature campaign income or ability to trade -- it sure doesn't work.

Shouldn't whistleblowers have some kind of immunity from at least the accused ones? But the problem is sometimes they have some misdeeds from their past which makes it difficult to blow the whistle, but if they could get amnesty, then I'm sure we could see a lot better and healthier community without these viruses infecting it.
Btw, why is Tl comes and goes every few hours like commercial breaks? You know since nobody cares or even watch them.😅
@yahoo, did mikeywith tag someone unfairly for stupid reasons? If not why would you remove him? Because he is doing the right thing? 

[yahoo62278]

@yahoo, did mikeywith tag someone unfairly for stupid reasons? If not why would you remove him? Because he is doing the right thing? 

The right thing or the wrong thing has nothing to do with this. 3 days man. 3 days and both are defending their position with no end in sight. Be level headed, hit the ignore, and move on or take it private, either option is better than keeping the argument going.

[1miau]

After reading this I want to be up front and sat that I decided to ~ both of you for the time being. It's been 3 days and 5 pages of back n forth drama between you 2 with noone backing down or trying to come to a suitable outcome and end the drama. Both of you just seem intent on proving your points without resolving anything.

Thanks for the feedback, yahoo62278.

I do not dislike either of you, nor do I want to see this continue. IMO DT needs to be more rational and open to change as well as level headed and fair. Neither of you 2 are being this right now. Just a bunch of i'm right, no i'm right bs.

I hope you guys work it out at some point, but that's not looking like it'll happen. Might be time to ignore each other and go on with life.

DT needs to be more rational that's right. I'm open to listen to the community if mikeywith is willing to do the same.
As DT is a decentralized community feedback system, I believe we should listen to the call of the community.
I think you are a long time DT member and believe your feedback can help here to get this solved, move on and dedicate our time to more important things.
As said before I'm willing to accept any outcome DT will conclude.

So, what's your approach to solve the issue?
I'm willing to give it a try and look how we can come together.

[yahoo62278]

After reading this I want to be up front and sat that I decided to ~ both of you for the time being. It's been 3 days and 5 pages of back n forth drama between you 2 with noone backing down or trying to come to a suitable outcome and end the drama. Both of you just seem intent on proving your points without resolving anything.

Thanks for the feedback, yahoo62278.

I do not dislike either of you, nor do I want to see this continue. IMO DT needs to be more rational and open to change as well as level headed and fair. Neither of you 2 are being this right now. Just a bunch of i'm right, no i'm right bs.

I hope you guys work it out at some point, but that's not looking like it'll happen. Might be time to ignore each other and go on with life.

DT needs to be more rational that's right. I'm open to listen to the community if mikeywith is willing to do the same.
As DT is a decentralized community feedback system, I believe we should listen to the call of the community.
I think you are a long time DT member and believe your feedback can help here to get this solved, move on and dedicate our time to more important things.
As said before I'm willing to accept any outcome DT will conclude.

So, what's your approach to solve the issue?
I'm willing to give it a try and look how we can come together.

I cannot really say what will end the dispute man. You're not budging and neither is he. Everything that needed to be said was said day 1 IMO between you 2. Having a beer and hashing it out was mentioned and declined. Talking isn't getting anywhere as it just keeps piling up. I get it, you are accused and want to defend your position and he thinks you are in the wrong and wants you to realize it. It's hard to move people from their opinion sometimes. He has brought awareness and people will keep an eye on you no matter what for a bit and see if you are continuing on the path you're being accused of IMO.

The community has 5 pages of stuff to read and decipher. If they want to ~ then they will. If they don't they won't. Ignore button seems like the best thing for you 2 at the moment and let each other have some time to think and reflect.

[mikeywith]

So, what's your approach to solve the issue?
I'm willing to give it a try and look how we can come together.

Will you delete all the politics-related feedback you left on other members (both negative and neutral) and refrain from doing it again? it's all that simple, the 3-day conversation could have ended in 5 minutes if you would just agree to not let your political opinion affect your DT actions, I am not sure what other magical ways you expect from yahoo or anyone else to propose, the only other way is for them to publically state they are completely fine with using the trust system in politics and religion based drama, which I also gladly accept.

The third option that I would love not to go to would be to leave everything as is, both of us stop posting here, and we let the community say/do whatever they want with this topic, if they think it should vanish, they would just ignore it and it would go down the drain of page 100 or so, and if they think it should stay (either to express thier opinion against me or yourself, or to curse the two of us) then it will stay, and while that happens I promise that I will not under any circumstances post anything in this thread, and so will you.

So there you go, the ball's in your court, I will not decide how this topic ends, it's either you end it, or we wait for a few DT members to explicitly state that ( it's perfectly fine to leave neutral and negative feedback for anything politics), or we let the community decide the position of this topic, page 1 or page 100.

[1miau]

So, what's your approach to solve the issue?
I'm willing to give it a try and look how we can come together.

Will you delete all the politics-related feedback you left on other members (both negative and neutral) and refrain from doing it again? it's all that simple, the 3-day conversation could have ended in 5 minutes if you would just agree to not let your political opinion affect your DT actions,

That's going nowhere, mikeywith if you keep to continue your full demands, as you've done already so often in this thread.
I'm willing to give in, agree to yahoo's approach and after that, you are coming with your full demand that you can dictate which feedbacks I'm having to remove. That's just not helpful.
And that's not something a sane DT member can agree to because DT is a decentralized feedback system. No individual is allowed to dictate anyone anything.
However, the call from yahoo is reasonable and I'm willing to follow his approach.

The third option that I would love not to go to would be to leave everything as is, both of us stop posting here, and we let the community say/do whatever they want with this topic, if they think it should vanish, they would just ignore it and it would go down the drain of page 100 or so, and if they think it should stay (either to express this opinion against me or yourself) then it will stay, and while that happens I promise that I will not under any circumstances post anything in this thread, and so will you.

In this scenario, the community will decide. Community decisions are never bad and I'm willing to apply the community feedback for any of what happens from now on. I'm okay, when I'm getting excluded for the time being like yahoo did above, if that helps to settle our issue. You can distrust me as well, using your DT vote against my feedbacks. I would have to accept any distrust I get.
Furthermore, I will consider community feedback like the one from LoyceV here:

As for the "conflict" that started the whole thing, I'm quite surprised that you both went that far. A completely useless debate where both sides claim that their media sources of information are more honest than the other. That's the first thing I saw after a quick look at the discussion you mentioned.

I think this sums it up nicely. I don't feel like reading all the details, but from what I've seen, none of this should have been a reason to create drama about exclusions and removing positive feedback. So you disagree. It happens. That's okay.
This has potential to turn into a year-long-feut. Don't go there, get a beer together and move on.

And I'm willing to lock my other topic about you: mikeywith needs to grow a thicker skin regarding DT issues.
Edit: done already to keep it going to find a solution here

So there you go, the ball's in your court

I believe the call from yahoo is reasonable to approach this:

I cannot really say what will end the dispute man. You're not budging and neither is he. Everything that needed to be said was said day 1 IMO between you 2. Having a beer and hashing it out was mentioned and declined. Talking isn't getting anywhere as it just keeps piling up. I get it, you are accused and want to defend your position and he thinks you are in the wrong and wants you to realize it. It's hard to move people from their opinion sometimes. He has brought awareness and people will keep an eye on you no matter what for a bit and see if you are continuing on the path you're being accused of IMO.

The community has 5 pages of stuff to read and decipher. If they want to ~ then they will. If they don't they won't. Ignore button seems like the best thing for you 2 at the moment and let each other have some time to think and reflect.

So,

@yahoo, I'm accepting your call. If you think anyone of us is violating your call, feel free to leave a comment here, I'm ready to accept your terms.  

[Unknown01]

I'm not really interested in the whole thing but I want to come out. This DT story doesn't interest me at all, I don't care whether I'm DT2 or nothing at all. Some people seem to think of DT members as gods. I just want to agree with the thread creator and our moderator mole. I was also attacked after political differences (in the german local board), including neutral trust, but I don't really care anymore. 1miau is on the ignore list of many people in the german board because he attacks and insults everyone and tries to finish off everyone with a different political opinion. As long as something like this is defended by even one DT member, the whole system is pointless to me. In principle, the system means to me: I decide whether you can express your opinion or not.

And all of this in a Bitcoin forum where everyone here should be for freedom and peace

I'm gone again! adios amigos

p.s.: If there is no attack from 1miau after my post, I will officially admit that I must be schizophrenic

[digaran]

Actually more people come out and talk about his abusive and unwarranted behaviour the more he is exposed and will no longer be able to touch any of them since everything is in public view and there are still some good DT members which I'm sure will exclude him as the more evidence is presented.
Some of DT members should really be ashamed, look the above member, is half your size but he is twice of a man as you.
 

[1miau]

I'm not really interested in the whole thing but I want to come out.

The "coming out" of you and your friends was already addressed in this post (scroll down a bit in the post).
The problem with you and your friends is that you can't face any criticism for your bold claims, like documented here.
When you are criticized, you are immediately claiming that you are getting silenced or whatever victim card you play then.
Criticism is not silencing, it's part of the debate.

However, we try to avoid each other as often as possible to avoid any mess and at least for the recent time, that has improved.

And Unknown01, I'm not "attacking" anyone in my post here, but I'm well allowed to address accusations against me.
It's not helpful that certain members of our local board always play the "victim card".

Thanks again for your troll post:

I really don't know what's your end goal but keep showing the community that your comments are solely to create drama, spam and sowing discord.

I've also thought about another option, how we could solve our issue:



From what we have right now, it seems that proposals brought up by both of us (mikeywith and me) don’t have any chance to find an agreement.

If we can't find common ground there, it seems this can only be settled by a 3rd party call. LoyceV and yahoo are both high ranked DT members with Top 10 community inclusions. They’ll make a call here and we will agree to that call.
LoyceV or yahoo will then check if both of us will play by the rules of that call.
Of course, either LoyceV or yahoo need to agree that they are willing to do this. Both have a good judgement and experience.

Maybe that's another possibility, where both of us can agree.

[Tiger Fist]

You couldn't care less but as we know from islamist extremists,

Who are the "we" here? It's only you.

they'll force their believes on others at any price.

Where did you get this idea? It seems you are suffering from Islamophobia.

I'm not against any religion, I'm against people abusing their religion.
Islamic extremism doesn't mean Islam.
Christianity doesn't mean "let's repeat the crusades".
But as said by mikeywith, it's not helpful to start a P&S discussion here. We have some nice replies in that topic, how P&S discussions are creating big, big drama.  

That's what all Islamophobia sufferer says when someone points out their problem. Of course, you are against Islam. I have read the thread and I didn't see mikeywith talk about Islam. I am curious what you have said to him via private message. You both do not agree and that is fine, but I do not see any point in sending a PM full of insults and hate without having Islamophobia.

You should know, that Terrorist does not have any religion.
They are terrorists and they just hide behind a religion.

We have different believes and of course, that's very legitimate.  

Did you come back to your senses just now? How it's legitimate? If so, why did you send him a PM full of hate and insults and ask him to remove his feedback? Doesn't that mean you wanted to shut his mouth with your action? What does the forum system have to do with someone's political view?

Stop acting like a kid. You should grow thicker skin first before you suggest others grow thick skin.

[mrust_mobile]

@yahoo, did mikeywith tag someone unfairly for stupid reasons? If not why would you remove him? Because he is doing the right thing?  

The right thing or the wrong thing has nothing to do with this. 3 days man. 3 days and both are defending their position with no end in sight. Be level headed, hit the ignore, and move on or take it private, either option is better than keeping the argument going.

Immovable object vs Unstoppable force

3 days is nothing. A fight like this can continue forever… till DT1 decides to end it by favoring one side.

All it needs a little “push”

Centuries mate. We will run out of popcorn.

[mole0815]

However, we try to avoid each other as often as possible to avoid any mess and at least for the recent time, that has improved.

That's a good thing!


Oh, I wouldn't have mentioned User: Unknown01 threatens me with a forum ban for saying my opinion here because we could write a separate book about it

But in the resulting thread (Dangerous and inappropriate use of Trust: giving positive Trust for Shitposters) and also here (Self-moderated topics - nice feature or should it get banned?) you have shown that you know how DT (or the whole forum) works and that you don't allow other opinions.

It was all pretty much at the same time with various (political and other) disagreements... but could also be a coincidence


You've distrusted me since one of our first differences of opinion, so I'm taking this as an opportunity to stick to the statement in this quote.

If I'm removed, I'll have to accept that and we part ways to avoid drama.
If I'm not removed, you'll have to accept that and we part ways to avoid drama.
If you are removed, you'll have to accept that and we part ways to avoid drama.
If you are not removed, I'll have to accept that and we part ways to avoid drama.

That's a big part of DT to accept either outcome of the community.
Less drama, more community decision, which we have to accept.

So since yesterday evening "~1miau".
That's the end of the matter for me personally and I won't be investing any more time.
no offense 1miau, but the thread has to come to a conclusion at some point.

[1miau]

However, we try to avoid each other as often as possible to avoid any mess and at least for the recent time, that has improved.

That's a good thing!

Definitely!
Thanks for your comment and let's start from here to settle this further.
If we are willing to make improvements and find a solution, we will make improvements and find a solution.

Like mindrust said, this has to come to a conclusion.
So, I'll accept either call, be it the one from yahoo already or if LoyceV decides to offer his solution as Switzerland.

[bullrun2024bro]

4- He added me to his "distrust" list.

You're not alone bud. Just a short story how I ended up on his distrust list a few months ago:

I ended up on @1miau's distrust list after we had a heated German discussion about running an altcoin node. He got angry and he took things personal and I ended up on his distrust list a few days later in week 227. He even started to correcting my posts for grammar mistakes because he ran out of arguments, lol.



Source: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=628413.msg62263758#msg62263758

A week later in week 228 @GazetaBitcoin also added me to his distrust list. No clue why, I never spoke to him. He never spoke to me. Might be a coincidence, but the timing is odd ofc.

However, honestly I don't care and I wouldn't have brought it up, but since @1miau offered "to make improvements" I wanted to add my story to the discussion. Nobody has a 100% strike rate and I am sure he can improve, if he wants to.


In general: I am a big fan of the ignore button. Not everything here is a DT issue and life is way too short to fight with random people over random topics on the internet.

We're all here for Bitcoin. Use the ignore button and move on. Focus on the things that bring value to all of us (the community!) and not on pointless fights that only waste time and energy. In the end, it's not worth it.

[mikeywith]

@1miau, did you not agree to stop posting here and let the community handle the faith of this topic? Why are you still ranting? You claim you want to solve this and stop the "drama" but you can't take criticism and you want to respond to every single post.

[1miau]

I ended up on @1miau's distrust list after we had a heated German discussion about running an altcoin node.

When you are making accusations here and accusing other members as well, you also need to show the whole picture. We excluded you because already way sooner previously back in 2022, you repeatedly opposed the Campaign to improve Posting quality on local board in the german section, where we lined out how important it is to avoid unnecessary Denglish. The campaign was launched by me and co sponsored by GazetaBitcoin.
You came in our self-moderated topic, violated our rules multiple times despite my explanation that the self-moderated rules need to be applied but you ignored this repeatedly. That was disrespectful, especially after doing this repeatedly.
The deleted posts are archived.
We can keep the accusations going here but that would lead to the exact issues, why the discussion was always heated.

We're all here for Bitcoin. Use the ignore button and move on. Focus on the things that bring value to all of us (the community!) and not on pointless fights that only waste time and energy. In the end, it's not worth it.

Definitely, pointless fights, one-sided accusations, heated discussions and similar are a waste of time. I fully agree to your quote.
You are right, that we should focus on things to provide interesting content to the Forum, especially now that a new price cycle is about to start ahead of the halving.  

@1miau, did you not agree to stop posting here and let the community handle the faith of this topic? Why are you still ranting? You claim you want to solve this and stop the "drama" but you can't take criticism and you want to respond to every single post.

When there are accusations against me and other members, I will address them, showing the whole picture. That's part of the opinion building process.
But after all, I agree that it's important to remember that even when there are different opinions about an issue, we need to agree to disagree.  

[mindrust]

life is way too short to fight with random people over random topics on the internet.

This is where you are completely wrong. The whole point of the internet is fighting random people over random topics.

[bullrun2024bro]

When you are making accusations here and accusing other members as well, you also need to show the whole picture. We excluded you because already way sooner previously back in 2022, you repeatedly opposed the Campaign to improve Posting quality on local board in the german section, where we lined out how important it is to avoid unnecessary Denglish. The campaign was launched by me and co sponsored by GazetaBitcoin.
You came in our self-moderated topic, violated our rules multiple times despite my explanation that the self-moderated rules need to be applied but you ignored this repeatedly. That was disrespectful, especially after doing this repeatedly.

What I find odd is that you're speaking for both you and Gazeta, but let's take that aside. So just that I get it right, you both distrusted me for something I supposedly did in 2022 just after a discussion you and me had in May 2023?

Quite interesting. Still sounds odd to me, but okay. Thanks for letting me know what caused it.


A few words to the 2022 "Campaign to improve Posting quality on local board" though, since @1miau said he wants to give everyone a full picture:

@1miau got heavily criticized for his campaign on the German board, after all the previous fighting he was involved in (the Corona drama etc. which thread finally got deleted). The new campaign was seen as way too strict by several members and as a possible tool to censor certain people he doesn't like. And that's why I and several others spoke up. No post should be deleted, because someone uses a few English words in a long abstract. It's about value not wording or grammar.

Things went so far that our moderator @mole0815 had to create a separate unmoderated topic after several posts got deleted by @1miau.

Here are the threads, if someone wants to read them, but it's basically the same endless discussion we have here on a different topic.

Zu viel Denglisch im deutschsprachigen Forumsbereich
Zu viel Denglisch im deutschsprachigen Forumsbereich (unmoderiert) (non moderated thread by our local mod)


So does all this help solving the current issue? Probably not. Therefore, as I said before: Everyone involved here use the ignore button and move on. I did it months ago already.

[LoyceV]

If we can't find common ground there, it seems this can only be settled by a 3rd party call. LoyceV and yahoo are both high ranked DT members with Top 10 community inclusions. They’ll make a call here and we will agree to that call.
LoyceV or yahoo will then check if both of us will play by the rules of that call.

That sounds a lot like being a kindergarten teacher. I'm not doing that.
I've made my point too many times already: ignore each other, and move on. You don't even have to wait for the other guy to do this, either one of you can abandon this drama at any moment. That's what I tried to do but because there's really nothing more I can add, but somehow it keeps coming back to me.

So, I'll accept either call, be it the one from yahoo already or if LoyceV decides to offer his solution as Switzerland.

I'm all for making your own call.

unwatch

[1miau]

So just that I get it right, you both distrusted me for something I supposedly did in 2022 just after a discussion you and me had in May 2023?

I was trying to give you the benefit of doubt for a very long time. But after all the things piling up from late 2022 on, this was very hard to give a pass at some point.
I have no problem if any of my posts gets criticism but this has to be in a civil way and if you are replying in my self-moderated topic of our campaign, you have to accept the rules of self-moderation. Removed posts were even allowed to post again but with proper German language, so no opinion was stifled. Your suggestion that opinions were stifled in that self-moderated topic is simply wrong.
Ignoring the self-moderated rules repeatedly despite me giving reminders of that Bitcointalk rules, is a Bitcointalk nettiquette violation.

I hope the above statement answers your question.
If we could sort out this one, what in general caused this whole drama, it's beneficial to see how this can prevented in the future.  

So, I'll accept either call, be it the one from yahoo already or if LoyceV decides to offer his solution as Switzerland.

I'm all for making your own call.

My call would be that'll try to get along with all members, even if we disagree.
Two suggestions:

- We can keep the topic open and have a civil discussion, without misleading accusations.
- We can close the topic and DT has now 6 pages to read up on. In this case I would give in on this and give mikeywith the last reply in this topic before it's getting closed.

I'm okay with both of the above solutions.  

[mikeywith]

1miau if you are going to keep ranting and responding to every single post, why do you pretend like you want to stop all of this? initially, you succeeded in manipulating other members into thinking that this was a personal issue between you and me, so the solution proposed by some of them was "to ignore each other and move on", now that more people had the courage to talk about your abuse -- it's very evident to the community this isn't 1miau vs mikeywith.

You can keep attacking everyone who speaks the truth about you, and you know because you have nothing better to do outside the forum, you think you can always beat them with your endless ranting knowing that they will likely stop before you do because no sane person is willing to spend his whole life arguing here, which does not seem to apply to you.

given how many victims of your oppression showed up and will still show, any rational DT member will eventually conclude that the whole issue is your narcissistic personality disorder, you are so obsessed with punishing everyone who disagrees with you, be it regarding a political conflict or even something as little as setting up a node, the only solution to your misery is getting you out of DT whereby your oppression is going to be kept at bay.


A message to every 1miau's victim out there who is afraid to show up here and speak up: you only have a single life to live, don't live it cowardly, oppression ends when fear does, 1miau does not control other DT members (he probably has a few "friends" who will stick with him despite his abuse but they will give up on him at one point) but that doesn't mean that there are not enough rational brave DT members who will always choose to side with the truth -- you just need to have the balls to speak up and they will eventually do the right thing.

I added the narcissistic 1miau to my exclusion list, because after 4 days of back and forth, it's pretty clear that he has no plans of correcting his behavior, he is counting on the negativity of other DT members to just let his abuse slip.

[1miau]

*same accusations as usual*

I know your opinion and I agree to disagree. Let's move on without misleading statements, lies and name-calling. This topic is a wall of 7 pages now.

I added the narcissistic 1miau to my exclusion list, because after 4 days of back and forth, it's pretty clear that he has no plans of correcting his behavior, he is counting on the negativity of other DT members to just let his abuse slip.

I disagree to the way how you are expressing this by using emotionally loaded words once again. That's not helpful to find common ground.
But I will accept your call that you distrust me and I will live with it.


So, what about this call?
Let's find a solution, where we both can agree on:  

So, I'll accept either call, be it the one from yahoo already or if LoyceV decides to offer his solution as Switzerland.

I'm all for making your own call.

My call would be that'll try to get along with all members, even if we disagree.
Two suggestions:

- We can keep the topic open and have a civil discussion, without misleading accusations.
- We can close the topic and DT has now 6 pages to read up on. In this case I would give in on this and give mikeywith the last reply in this topic before it's getting closed.

I'm okay with both of the above solutions.  

[icopress]

Since you are a campaign manager, let me ask you something (a question to all campaign managers), if someone had negative feedback from 1miau for being pro-Russian or a Pro-puerto Rican for that matter, applied to a campaign you run, would you even consider looking at his post quality with that negative feedback?

Do you think that in the campaigns I manage there are no users with red tags?

Btw, the political position has nothing to do with when someone justifies the killing of Ukrainians (or any other nation). Therefore, if you were an incredibly high-quality poster, you had 100 positive reviews, then I would not care about it and I would definitely not accept you into the campaign.

I think we could spare the forum at least 90% of the trust system drama if ALL campaign managers start evaluating participants only based on post quality with no consideration for feedback, this way nobody will be afraid of expressing their opinion on any subject, because the current system is directly tied to money, people have to keep their mouth shut to earn some BTC, [..]

What do you think I do?

I recommend that you look through the lists of Webmixer, eXch, MixTum or UniJoin and tell me what % of people wearing advertising signatures are spammers. And what % of spammers are in other campaigns? Then we will have a clear comparison of those who accept users in the campaign really because of the quality of posts.

But until that happens, being a DT member means you have a lot of power, enough power to dictate who gets to make money and who does not, and as long as someone has that much power -- it's no longer a matter of " it's up to me to exclude, or tag people for things that I personally see fit".

Anyone who looks at DT from a power standpoint doesn't deserve to be there, although in reality it all means little considering that 95% of users using the feedback system are misusing it... sending positive and negative feedback for any reason .

In addition, I repeatedly refused to those who were in the top 10 most recognizable, asking to remove this or that participant from the campaign (btw, some of them also spread rumors that the now deceased Zepher was a drug addict all his life). That’s why I don’t agree with you that someone can dictate their terms to someone.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

I am working on understanding everything between you two in my own way to see if mikeywith's observations are true or from a manipulated mind.

But you didn't work on anything to understand my observations regarding jollygood abuse, you immediately posted and accused him of abuse and harassment, why? Because you had problems with him, right?
I wonder did you see my topic on him with the same excuses as jollygood or you saw it but just ignored it because you and 1 miau are trust buddies?
What was that you posted once? To sin is to stay silent etc, doesn't that slogan apply here, or it's good to use when it's in your interest to show everyone what a great person you are?

digaran either you do not give attention to what you read or you are not able to look at details or you are blind. One of these three must be true.
Anyone who have a little interest in my activities, knows very well that how I see JollyGood, Ratimov, and in the recent time the company Rollbit.

To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men was a topic came out of frustration. At some point I felt I am the only one who was always loud against JollyGood, Ratimov, and Rollbit. But turns out many members do not want to see what I saw in them. Those who agrees are afraid to deal in public but very comfortable to inform their stand in private with me and request me to do something for them.

I tried many times to speak for them [those requests] before I realized there are no point to continue because some people started to take everything lightly and thinking I have personal problem with these members. So I retied from JollyGood, Ratimov and Rollbit.

I rejoined Ratimov because finally someone was brave enough and was able to connect all the pieces of the puzzle together to open others eyes. I have no intention to rejoin for JollyGood and Rollbit again until someone else does very similar like GazetaBitcoin did to expose Ratimov.

JollyGood is a trust and feedback abuser, he hostage his victim with negative feedback but many failed to understand it. JollyGood even is a scammer who was not able to pay a user $100 a long time ago but he someone tricked the whole community and got the pass.
 
I was one of the user who was very laud against Ratimov but in the recent time it seems every one opened their eyes. Thanks to GazetaBitcoin.

Rollbit are scammers and very soon they will have very similar fate like Betnomi. Unfortunately Hhampuz always thinks I am wrong and he is manipulating a number of people to support and advertise Rollbit.

[digaran]

@1miau, why is it so hard for you to explain for everyone just for one time, and then go on with your life?

It's really simple, you initially tagged me with red, which prompted me to post a thread on this same board, but later you changed it to neutral

1miau

2023-10-18

Reference

digaran is a proven troll. He is known for spreading lies, harassing forum (DT) members and is known for his past shady dealings. Not to be trusted.

What happened there? Was that your second pass for a "known scammer, lair, troll" or what changed your mind?

Then on the same day, you changed it back to negative which took me 2 days to notice, was it because I excluded you or "said" something you didn't like?



Then a few days ago after this post

Looks like I'm living in his mind rent-free. 
And if there was any doubt if these feedbacks on digaran's account were justified, at least now we know that they are 100% deserved. 

You assumed because some kid is saying I might have deserved the tag, immediately went and updated your feedback with a different ref link, because the first one had an excuse such as trolling, but the second one was "legit" in your eyes, you chose that and kept laughing at me.

The phrase living in my head rent free, was mentioned by Vod, you quickly picked that up as a good catch phrase, someone accused me, you picked that up as an excuse, someone here defends you, then you assume the whole world is on your side. You keep arguing with mikeywith as if he is the only one you are dealing with here, maybe you haven't figured it out, he was prompted by my topic on you, otherwise he had already forgotten your childish behaviour.

And I know the so called esteemed and so called neutral DTs won't say anything here addressing my case, because siding with a "known scammer" is a bad thing, you know?

But why do you keep evading to answer the questions? Or are you going to keep deviating the subject directed at mikeywith?
I just hate being a upward spit of this community, don't say I didn't tell you.

[1miau]

@1miau, why is it so hard for you to explain for everyone just for one time, and then go on with your life?

@digaran
I'm just trying to find a solution where we both can agree on. That's what LoyceV also wants us to do.
We can also wait for a call that is given from 2 or 3 Top 10 or 20 DT members and both of us have to accept that.
Repeated rants don't bring any solution, its just sowing discord.


Another suggestion for mikeywith, where I'm ready to concede ground:

Lets lock this topic until 01.01.2024 that the dust settles.
You can watch my feedbacks and trust list changes until then.
If you think, from now on until 01.01.2024 there would be "abuse" according to you, you could open this topic again, presenting evidence.
The outcomes:
- If the evidence is weak, DT will judge that accordingly.
- If the evidence is true and DT confirms this, I'll accept further distrusts from DT members.
- If there's no abuse, the topic will remain closed and we will move on.

You could review my trust feedback and trust list any time, from every entry that happens from now on until then. That way, you could interfere into my DT decisions for some time.
So you see, I'm ready to concede massive ground to find a solution here. I'm stepping back from the demand that any interference into my DT decisions is not acceptable.
I'm stepping back from my demand.
So, as I've said I'm ready to concede this massive ground to you.
How about that?

[digaran]

@1miau, why is it so hard for you to explain for everyone just for one time, and then go on with your life?

@digaran
I'm just trying to find a solution where we both can agree on. That's what LoyceV also wants us to do.
We can also wait for a call that is given from 2 or 3 Top 10 or 20 DT members and both of us have to accept that.
Repeated rants don't bring any solution, its just sowing discord.

Why are you waiting for approval or disapproval from others? If you can't decide on your own, people will have to go through the same arguments over and over, life goes on, you could continue contributing while off DT, let those top 10-20 DT members handle this part of community and you handle merit distribution part, just without having the ability to scare people off this forum or trying to force them into submission at will.

I will find an updated list of those having you on their list, talking with you is pointless, lets see if they are sensible or not.

[1miau]

talking with you is pointless, lets see if they are sensible or not.

Pointless? Finding a solution is pointless? Yes, maybe for drama lovers like you... 
I'm just following what LoyceV suggested here, to find an agreement to settle on instead of my suggestion of a 3rd party DT member decision: 

So, I'll accept either call, be it the one from yahoo already or if LoyceV decides to offer his solution as Switzerland.

I'm all for making your own call.

But we all know that you don't like DT, digaran!
You are not interested to find a solution.
You are just here to create drama.
You are just here to sow discord.
Your backfired attempts to discredit me everywhere, there's a new topic from Poker Player about you. This topic is spot on.

Lets get back on the topic to find a solution:

Another suggestion for mikeywith, where I'm ready to concede ground:

Lets lock this topic until 01.01.2024 that the dust settles.
You can watch my feedbacks and trust list changes until then.
If you think, from now on until 01.01.2024 there would be "abuse" according to you, you could open this topic again, presenting evidence.
The outcomes:
- If the evidence is weak, DT will judge that accordingly.
- If the evidence is true and DT confirms this, I'll accept further distrusts from DT members.
- If there's no abuse, the topic will remain closed and we will move on.

You could review my trust feedback and trust list any time, from every entry that happens from now on until then. That way, you could interfere into my DT decisions for some time.
So you see, I'm ready to concede massive ground to find a solution here. I'm stepping back from the demand that any interference into my DT decisions is not acceptable.
I'm stepping back from my demand.
So, as I've said I'm ready to concede this massive ground to you.
How about that?

[mikeywith]

Do you think that in the campaigns I manage there are no users with red tags?

I don't know, which is why I asked, hopping other campaign managers would answer too.

 I do not know because I barely check to be honest, but it is not uncommon for campaign managers to add this rule

no negative feedback from DT .

Had that manager not cared about the feedback, said member would not be scared of 1miau.

So, since you as a campaign manager still accept members with negative feedback, IMO you are doing a great job and I think all other campaign managers who still don't should follow the same way.

This would really serve the community big time IMO.

[MinoRaiola]

A message to every 1miau's victim out there who is afraid to show up here and speak up: you only have a single life to live, don't live it cowardly, oppression ends when fear does, 1miau does not control other DT members (he probably has a few "friends" who will stick with him despite his abuse but they will give up on him at one point) but that doesn't mean that there are not enough rational brave DT members who will always choose to side with the truth -- you just need to have the balls to speak up and they will eventually do the right thing.

I added the narcissistic 1miau to my exclusion list, because after 4 days of back and forth, it's pretty clear that he has no plans of correcting his behavior, he is counting on the negativity of other DT members to just let his abuse slip.

It is good that there are people like you here, thank you for doing this.

I am ready, users who do not want to post here in their name that they can write to me and I will post it "unknown". You can send me a private message and I will add it. I wont create a new thread in the German local yet, but I will save me this one here and maybe do that in the future if it doesnt change. The attacks have been going on for far too long and at some point it is time to react.Action / Reaction - thats quite normal.

So, like bullrun2024, I using the ignore button, it becomes quieter and we can all get on with our lives.

[1miau]

I added the narcissistic 1miau to my exclusion list, because after 4 days of back and forth, it's pretty clear that he has no plans of correcting his behavior, he is counting on the negativity of other DT members to just let his abuse slip.

It is good that there are people like you here, thank you for doing this.

Unfortunately, calling names and keep bringing up the same old, wrong accusations is not going to settle the issue.
What's going to settle the issue is trying how to get along with each other, where everyone has to concede some ground. I'm already willing to concede some ground while mikeywith still isn't willing to concede even a little bit.

[mikeywith]

I am ready, users who do not want to post here in their name that they can write to me and I will post it "unknown". You can send me a private message and I will add it.

The number of PMs I got here and on telegram regarding this subject in the past 4 days is probably more than I ever got in a month, this is the saddest part about all of this, it's like we are in the most miserable dictatorship forum where people are afraid to speak up, a forum where cursing is allowed, scam is allowed, but freedom of speech is a privilege to just a few of us, this has become far less "free community" than the centralized social media like the likes of Facebook.

But if you were to ask me, this isn't 1miau's and the other abusers' fault entirely, the most part falls on those who are willing to trade their freedom of speech for a few bucks a week from signature campaigns, those pool people are brainwashed to think that someone like 1miau operates in a large network where he is protected by all other DT members and that nobody will stand by their side against him, those people have little to no clue about the forum history, Lauda was thought to be someone who controls not only other DT members but theymos himself, but all of that turned out to be an illusion and when enough people stood up against him, he fell (which was a sad end for Lauda if you ask me, but ya that's off-topic)

So ya, oppression ends when fear does, nobody should be scared of any DT member, all DT members are just human, they are subject to make mistakes and thus need to be pointed at and fixed, or removed from DT, if everyone grow some balls -- the forum will be a better place.

Another suggestion for mikeywith, where I'm ready to concede ground:

Lets lock this topic until 01.01.2024 that the dust settles.
You can watch my feedbacks and trust list changes until then.
If you think, from now on until 01.01.2024 there would be "abuse" according to you, you could open this topic again, presenting evidence.
The outcomes:
- If the evidence is weak, DT will judge that accordingly.
- If the evidence is true and DT confirms this, I'll accept further distrusts from DT members.
- If there's no abuse, the topic will remain closed and we will move on.

You could review my trust feedback and trust list any time, from every entry that happens from now on until then. That way, you could interfere into my DT decisions for some time.
So you see, I'm ready to concede massive ground to find a solution here. I'm stepping back from the demand that any interference into my DT decisions is not acceptable.
I'm stepping back from my demand.
So, as I've said I'm ready to concede this massive ground to you.
How about that?

Ok, it's good to see you come to somewhat common sense, although we still have a major disagreement about what is "abuse", also, there is no mention of your past feedback, we agree to what happens to the future, but you do not seem to consider your previous feedback.

if you were to show serious behavior correction, by deleting all political feedback you left (including neutral) then I will take you seriously and agree to your terms, be it to lock this topic till next year or even forever.

Obviously, this doesn't mean you can delete feedback that says " Putin supporter, bla bla bla" and add a new one that says "He is a troll", or to continue to exclude everyone who disagrees with your statements, as Yahoo told you,  many people are going to be watching you, I hope you don't try to outsmart everyone and to actually be honest about leaving all the political and personal drama outside of the trust system.

I do not want to win or score a point against you, after all, as I mentioned before, the goal was never to get you out of DT, the goal is to point you to what I (and many others think) is a form of abuse. if I had the power to choose between getting you out of DT or stopping you from using the trust system for political-related stuff, I would always choose the latter as long as there is hope in you.

Also just so that this whole thing does not end up with me "winning" anything out of it, I would urge you to keep me in your exclusion forever.

[1miau]

I am ready, users who do not want to post here in their name that they can write to me and I will post it "unknown". You can send me a private message and I will add it.

it's like we are in the most miserable dictatorship forum where people are afraid to speak up, a forum where cursing is allowed, scam is allowed

Your repeated accusations and name calling is achieving exactly nothing.
In addition, that's setting an extremely dangerous precedent, where one power-hungry DT member is trying to dictate another member's ability to give out trust feedbacks.
And you are acting against DT consensus, which is even more concerning! 
And DT will probably remove you, not me.
So, let's go back to a civil discussion how to solve the issue, we have had enough back and forth already.

Ok, it's good to see you come to somewhat common sense,

Definitely, that's how we can discuss and that's how we can find common ground. I agree in general to follow that path. I'm willing to concede my red line that no one should be able to dictate my feedback for some time to calm down the situation between us. That way, people are not "afraid anymore to speak out", like you call it (where I'm having a fundamentally different opinion of course but we have that discussed already and let's agree to disagree here). So let's follow that goal for now, that we fullfill your statement, you've voiced here.
That's a very generous offer in my opinion from my side.
But you need to concede ground as well. Old feedbacks are not on the table as they are a thing of the past and otherwise DT would have removed me, which didn't happen - it's relevant what happens from now on, after we have agreed to find a solution for this.
In addition I'm conceding to you that if there is any trust feedback (not exclusions) you consider abuse, you are allowed to unlock this topic and to start a poll in this topic, where DT members (and only DT members) can vote, if that's abuse. Both of us will have to accept the decision from that DT vote.

So, I'll concede some ground, you'll concede some ground and we will find a solution, where both of us are happy. 

[mikeywith]

In addition, that's setting an extremely dangerous precedent, where one power-hungry DT member is trying to dictate another member's ability to give out trust feedbacks.
And DT will probably remove you, not me.

1- I am not a DT member
2- I am not trying dictate your feedback, this is a false accusation, it would be true if I asked you to send me a positive feedback, or to remove a feedback on some scammer profile.

I am asking for a fair usage of the trust system, which is whiting my rights as forum member, you are not obligated to accept it, you could ignore this thread the same way I ignored yours against me, you want to "end" this, not me, I do not view this as a "battle" where one needs to win for it to stop, I view it as an opportunity for the afraid to have the courage to speak up against what "they" think is an abuse on them, so if this has to stay here forever, I am fine by it, I will have to stop posting here at some point but I won't stop others from expressing their opinion.

This topic will eventually lose it's value and people will ignore it when one of three things happen

1- your removal from DT
2- you changing your way of dealing with the system ( including past political b.s feedback)
3- everyone who has been a victim of yours loses hope in the community and nobody posts here anymore.


To avoid any further drama and spare the community another 70 or so pages on this, I am willing to go with option 2, but then you say you won't delete your feedback, this means, there will still be victims affected by your abuse, I and many others (including the victims) view your feedback that says something like " Pro Russian, not to be trusted bla bla" as an abuse, in the same way I would view "Pro Ukrainian, not to be trusted bla bla".

So if the abuse is still there, how can we settle this? If you say it is not abuse and its warrant, then we go back to square zero.

I have never spent more time on this board than I did in the last couple of days, so I will not comment here any further unless a direct question is pointed to me although I hope nobody asks me anything anymore because I feel that I have said everything I need to say here.

If you have anything "new" to say to me personally, feel free to PM me, this way we could both stop drilling this thread.

[Lakai01]

That way, people are not "afraid anymore to speak out", like you call it (where I'm having a fundamentally different opinion of course but we have that discussed already and let's agree to disagree here). So let's follow that goal for now, that we fullfill your statement, you've voiced here.
[...]

I have to admit that @mikeywith is quite right here. Why? Because I myself thought long and hard about whether I should write something about it here or not.

Some context ...
You and I actually had a very good relationship and I'm still grateful to you today for the tip about Avalanche back then. But things changed abruptly once I disagreed with you about a year ago and took the liberty of criticizing the way you treat other users which have an other (political) view than you do. You then wrote me a very aggressive and insulting PM where you also threatened me that you would not look at this for much longer and would take action against me. I was very surprised by your behavior, I just didn't think you were like that as a person.

To be honest, the threat of consequences also led to me completely ignoring you and your posts for a long time and even now I'm still reluctant from entering into discussions with you ... and I very much hope that this thread will now lead you to reflect on your behavior. The first hints in this direction can already be seen, I really appreciate that.

Personally, I would be very happy if we could get the old 1miau of "pre-corona" back in the German-speaking board. The positive trust entry I made dates back to that time.  

[yahoo62278]

Anyone who looks at DT from a power standpoint doesn't deserve to be there

So true. No different than a boss taking advantage of his employees saying suck my dick or i'll fire you. It's just wrong to use your power like this.

@mikeywith would it be possible for you to compile a list(some reference points) where you show 1miau abusing members and silencing them? It would be easier for anyone reviewing the case to just be able to click the links and see the abuse. Also, maybe some feedbacks you feel are political. Up to you.

To anyone who is speaking up or thinking about it, please also include reference links or pms so that it can be reviewed. You want something done, you have to grow some balls and show the proof. You cannot be tagged for speaking up as it would look terrible for 1miau if he tagged you.

To sum it up, the burden is on mikey and others to show/provide proof if they want change. At this point 1miau should remain quiet. If no proof is presented, case closed and everyone goes about their business.

[Lakai01]

To anyone who is speaking up or thinking about it, please also include reference links or pms so that it can be reviewed. You want something done, you have to grow some balls and show the proof. You cannot be tagged for speaking up as it would look terrible for 1miau if he tagged you.

I think that's a very good idea @yahoo and I'm also prepared to post the PM, even though I'm very clearly insulted in it (and not just me). But I would only post the PM with 1miau's permission, it is a "private message" after all. Alternatively, I can submit the PM to a (preferably German-speaking) mod and he will confirm the content. That's just as ok for me.

[MinoRaiola]

To anyone who is speaking up or thinking about it, please also include reference links or pms so that it can be reviewed. You want something done, you have to grow some balls and show the proof. You cannot be tagged for speaking up as it would look terrible for 1miau if he tagged you.

I think that's a very good idea @yahoo and I'm also prepared to post the PM, even though I'm very clearly insulted in it (and not just me). But I would only post the PM with 1miau's permission, it is a "private message" after all. Alternatively, I can submit the PM to a (preferably German-speaking) mod and he will confirm the content. That's just as ok for me.

I could do the same, or I can publish it, I dont care. So if there is such a list, put my name on it.

PM message was sent to me by 1miau and I ignored it, than the user Nestade came and sent me his messages as well. He write me to change my trust post and if I dont, DT will react!

I can post part of the message here:

Da du durch die DT-Rotationen absehbar in den nächsten Monaten wieder Teil von DT bist (aufgrund der Rotation bist du es derzeit nicht, was aber bloß durch eine für deinen Account unwahrscheinliche Zufallssituation zustande kommt), bitte ich um Anpassung des Trust entsprechend der Richtlinien: entfernen des Trusts oder Änderung zu neutralem Trust.

Trust zu nutzen heißt, das System zu verstehen und anwenden zu können. Ansonsten wird DT reagieren!

Mit Bitte um Korrektur bis 12.04.2022, 23.59 Uhr!

Found one of his threats to another user

Du hast mir dann sogar öffentlich gedroht!
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5398691.msg60133980#msg60133980

Auch das ist einzigartig. Auch das habe ich hier während meiner ganzen Zeit noch nie erlebt.

[yahoo62278]

I can post part of the message here:

Da du durch die DT-Rotationen absehbar in den nächsten Monaten wieder Teil von DT bist (aufgrund der Rotation bist du es derzeit nicht, was aber bloß durch eine für deinen Account unwahrscheinliche Zufallssituation zustande kommt), bitte ich um Anpassung des Trust entsprechend der Richtlinien: entfernen des Trusts oder Änderung zu neutralem Trust.

Trust zu nutzen heißt, das System zu verstehen und anwenden zu können. Ansonsten wird DT reagieren!

Mit Bitte um Korrektur bis 12.04.2022, 23.59 Uhr!

Understand that this is what the message says according to google translate

Since you will be part of DT again in the next few months due to the DT rotations (due to the rotation you are not at the moment, but this is only due to a random situation that is unlikely for your account), I ask you to adjust the trust according to the guidelines: remove the trust or change it to neutral trust.

Using trust means understanding and being able to apply the system. Otherwise, DT will respond!

I do not look at this as a threat. He is asking you to review your tags basically and make sure they are correct. That's what I take from it at least. Maybe he could have said it nicer? Other then that, doesn't look like any sort of threat or bullying. Looks like he was trying to help IMO and by DT will respond I would take it as a thread like this could be made about you not knowing how to use the trust system and shouldn't be in DT if you don't know the basics. I could be wrong but this is my take.

I find it odd that he's worried about your inclusions and tags in advance.

[mikeywith]

would it be possible for you to compile a list

Feedback sent for political reasons:

Poly#Crypto is mentally ill like his friends s0nix + Koal-84, keep in mind when you are considering to trade. Would not risk any Satoshi.
Poly#Crypto is a piece of shit, supporting russian aggression: He has no problems when Russia started attacking Ukraine, and Russians are committing war crimes but Poly#Crypto has problems when Ukrainians defend themselves. How should we trust such an asshole? See also previous feedback.

s0nix is mentally ill like his friends Poly#Crypto + Koal-84, keep in mind when you are considering to trade. Would not risk any Satoshi.
s0nix is a piece of shit, supporting russian aggression: He has no problems when Russia started attacking Ukraine, and Russians are committing war crimes but s0nix has problems when Ukrainians defend themselves. How should we trust such an asshole? See also previous feedback

Low value shitposts, spam, burst posting and excessive pyramid-quotes (61052011, 61145452 or 61021354).
In addition, amishmanish downplayed Putin's war by repeatedly spreading pro-russian lies (60250177).
It's discouraged to support such a behaviour by accepting such accounts into signature campaigns.

Shitposting Bitcointalk with low quality spam all day; then openly accusing me for off-topic shitposting...
The value Koal-84 is contributing to the forum is vanishingly small. The only occasion when his posts are getting longer is to find excuses for Russia's war against Ukraine. Disgusting behaviour from Koal-84! Avoid this Account to steer clear from unnecessary spam and derangement most probably caused due to paid signature campaigns.

nullius made some disgusting excuses, when he tried to whitewash Putin's war

Disgusting troll from the German section, where he is infamous for his lies, his unfounded defamations and his Off-Topic Spam Trollposts. Recently he has started to support Putin's war by downplaying it, spreading Kremlin propaganda and s0nix has even started attacking accounts criticizing Putins war.
The behaviour of s0nix is unforgivable and nefarious.

His shameless defamation campaign is completely nuts. He's spreading his spam, Off-Topic bullshit and pro-russian propaganda in many topics and is constantly derailing the discussion. I called him out for his wrongdoing but he doubled down on his misbehaviour.

Poly#Crypto is a troll account in our German local board. Doesn't provide any value for the forum - only spam, shitposts, inaccurate information and (of course) defamations and insults. Tries to find excuses for Putin's war.

Supporting Putins war with Kremlin Propaganda and selling it as "facts". (see my quote in the reference link).
Helping to normalize an ongoing war is a shame. For a while thandie has been a disgusting troll abusing the forum with his off-topic spam.
I addition he's trying to discredit my efforts to help raise funds for civilians in Ukraine.

One tag is not enough - this account offered to trade Merit (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3254613.0;topicseen), his shittoken project is a tremendous fail (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3073043.msg31664978#msg31664978), KingScorpio is a disgusting troll and liar (antisemitic and racist hate comments) and stealing is not an issue for him (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5037733.msg46197278#msg46197278). He's not sane. Better stay safe and avoid KingScorpio.

+ other feedback that was sugar-coated by other "reasons" but was sent RIGHT after a political disagreement like this one

Where 1miau openly admitted that he

5. I'm allowed to tag any troll and I already gave digaran a pass way back in 2022 when I came over him but didn't bother to "poke" the troll digaran.

And

I'm usually only getting active with trust feedbacks, when I'm getting dragged into a confrontation.

It's pretty evident that the negative feedback he left was right after the political disagreement, had they shared the same political view, he wouldn't have sent the feedback.


Trust exclusion for the sole reason of political disagreement

- Mikeywith > https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5474713.msg63187266#msg63187266
- MindRust  >https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5474713.msg63191470#msg63191470
-bullrun2024bro > https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5474713.msg63200560#msg63200560

+ he almost distrusts ALL those to whom he sent political feedback, which would technically also fall under this list if, of course, out of the 70+ exclusions he has, nobody knows how many were done for just "political reasons", but ya, sure thing is, the list will just get longer with more victims to come.

Narcissistic personality disorder, the urge to insult, curse, and punish everyone who disagrees with him, either by leaving them feedback, or exclusion or trying to censorship them one way or the other 

- Mikeywith : He insulted me in public for political disagreement, sent me a PM full of hatred
- Harassing the German mod to delete posts that he doesn't like for personal or political reasons
- Multiple PMs are sent to the German mod  from people who are afraid of talking against 1miau because he would destroy their accounts
- Excluding people from competition for having a different opinion
-Constant attack against many German community members for having different opinions
-Attacked and sent feedback to a German member for political differences
-Threatening a German member via PM to take actions against him most likely using his DT power simply for political disagreement 
- Publically threatening a German member


Extortion

I was contacted by someone who interacted with 1miau for the removal of political feedback, 1miau said (I have to rephrase since the victim is afraid and I promised not to reveal his name in public).

 "if x member does not express his political opinion about x conflict anymore, I might remove my feedback."

I can't reveal more info about this message as it will lead him to know the victim's name, but as I said before, if any DT member wants the proof and promises to never reveal the victim's name, I am willing to send the proof, I made a promise that I would only show the evidence to someone I trust that they would not reveal the victim name.

- Threatening a German member to change his feedback


Mind you that zero digging was done to compile this long list of abuse and harassment, it was also either posted here or PMed to me during the past couple of days, and given how victims keep showing, it seems that the lists above have a great potential of growth, not that I think they need any more points because there is enough proof that 1miau suffers from egomania.

I am disappointed to find out that 1miau despite being smart and productive, he is just like a child who lacks surrounding awareness, if you give him a puzzle to solve, he will do it, a homework to write he will probably do it neatly, but if you leave a knife next to him, the censuses could be devastating.

So are his posts beneficial to the forum? for the most part yes.
Is he a good Merit source? he sure is.
Is he a good DT member? sure thing no.

1miau is going to harm himself and everyone else who goes against him if he stays in DT, if the DT community doesn't make up their mind to put him out of it at least temporarily, my advice to 1miau is to stay out of it himself, not being able to control your feelings and using all tools you have to punish people who disagree with you is a serious problem that needs to be addressed.


In fact, you can ignore all of the above and just look at the fact that there are some members who had to PM me or the German mod to express their fear, those poor souls are afraid to speak up because they fear what 1miau is capable of doing to them, be it a direct or indirect consequence of the way 1miau uses the system if there is at least 1 human being who needs to accept oppression in a forum that was made for a project that was intended to liberate people from centralized entities -- then this has to stop.

[MinoRaiola]

~
I find it odd that he's worried about your inclusions and tags in advance.

I understand it exactly as he wrote it to me and he is setting a deadline or DT will react. I dont think he means it should be followed by a positive reaction. He will manipulate me into changing an entry about a user? Mh… for me it is so, but others are welcome to express their opinion about it.

I have a problem when users are attacked and he knows that because I dont give up and defend those who are attacked as best I can. I should be known for that in the German local.

[mikeywith]

Understand that this is what the message says according to google translate

I would be very careful using Google Translate for such a letter, English is rather simple/different, I can write a threat message in Arabic, that sounds like a threat in Arabic but would very well sound like friendly advice in English, so it's best to let other German-speaking members sum it up it for us.

I find it odd that he's worried about your inclusions and tags in advance.

In one of the PMs I got, I was told by a member, that 1miau is part of (or probably runs) a telegram group where he and a few other fellow friends discuss everything DT, he asked me to be careful of what 1miau is cooking for me  , is that true 1miau, do you discuss DT stuff on a telegram group ? please note that it isn't an accusation, it's just a question. I would believe whatever you say.


Also, 1miau for your last post, It's pretty long and I don't seem to understand it, I don't have time to count how many posts were posted here and lock-unlock the topic daily, it makes no sense, also, I don't like the fact that you want to ignore community opinions and only focus on DT members, I believe that everyone's opinion matters, after all, any sane DT member would always strive to do the best for the community.

Furthermore, and more importantly, my terms are simple, delete all the political feedback abuse, do not send any political-related feedback in the future, and they don't need 20 lines post, the other alternative would be to get the majority of the community to agree on using the trust system for political reasons, which I think is not possible, you may convince a few of your friends to come and say that out loud, but then how many of them will be?

The last resort would be leaving everything as is, the topic stays open forever until people get bored of it, so please do not post any more "terms", I really want to stop posting here, as I said in my previous post, I won't post unless I am asked by someone, I replied to Yahoo, and I replied to you, I don't want to be rude and ignore your posts going forward, so if it's a clear and short agreement of the terms I mentioned, it won't change a thing, it will only keep dragging this thing longer.

To everyone, please forgive me if ignore your questions going forward, as you can see from my post history, I hardly post 2-3 times a day and only in topics I feel comfortable with and know exactly what I am talking about without any drama, I really am so uncomfortable posting in this section of the forum, I said everything I want to say, feel free to continue the discussion the way you like it -- I will only respond if it's something super important (which I doubt will be), so if I don't respond to your question, accusation, greeting, or anything -- I am sorry in advance.    

[Timelord2067]

1miau reminds me of that other impatient hothead Lutpin. (I'll stop short if calling it a hunch, but they do remind me of each other).


Yahoo62278:

Proof

The proof of distrusting them can be found in their trust feedback they have posted.

Same as yours and TSC's, 1miau trust feedback need to be reviewed as they are little more than post-it notes or negatives to sledge etc - not for trades.

Practice what you preach as the three of you deserve Tildas.


Conversely, anyone who is Tilda-ing Ratimov (or whatever it is he calls himself these days) is guilty of trust abuse as he (Ratimov) currently has posted no trust feedback.

[digaran]

Used your post mikey as reference for a tag,  let us see if there is a true Bitcoiner who is truly concerned for freedom of speech in this community to tag this virus accordingly for all the untrustworthy and shady dealings, DT manipulator, I have also called out all DT1s having him on their trust lists, 2 of them said *shut up we don't care(something like that), this is not about me or 1miau, anyone with the same mindset as him, should receive a tag and excluded from DT, let them continue their contributions
to see if they are telling the truth or they are here just to milk this community , since it's a decentralized system, right?

I am disgusted to see such parasites were allowed to exist for so long.

*= my own interpretation.

[yahoo62278]

1miau reminds me of that other impatient hothead Lutpin. (I'll stop short if calling it a hunch, but they do remind me of each other).


Yahoo62278:

Proof

The proof of distrusting them can be found in their trust feedback they have posted.

Same as yours and TSC's, 1miau trust feedback need to be reviewed as they are little more than post-it notes or negatives to sledge etc - not for trades.

Practice what you preach as the three of you deserve Tildas.


Conversely, anyone who is Tilda-ing Ratimov (or whatever it is he calls himself these days) is guilty of trust abuse as he (Ratimov) currently has posted no trust feedback.

I'm not going to reply to you again, so rant all you want from here in out. Feel free to ~ i'm 100% ok with it. I don't control what you do with your inclusions. It's not my fault you ran yourself right out of DT, it's your own doing. The difference between me and you as far as DT goes is I don't care 1 way or the other. I do my best and I do not use it as a power trip. I will practice what I preach though and use that ignore button as I feel arguing with you is a complete waste of time.

[suchmoon]

Conversely, anyone who is Tilda-ing Ratimov (or whatever it is he calls himself these days) is guilty of trust abuse as he (Ratimov) currently has posted no trust feedback.

Bullshit. He earned his tildes with poor judgement, there is no reason to remove them, particularly since his tantrum is ongoing.

If you took all this effort that you're spending on making shit up and put it towards understanding how this forum actually works, you'd have all those things that you crave so much, all the trust doohickeys and merit thingamabobs that you can dream of.

[examplens]

Conversely, anyone who is Tilda-ing Ratimov (or whatever it is he calls himself these days) is guilty of trust abuse as he (Ratimov) currently has posted no trust feedback.

Bullshit. He earned his tildes with poor judgement, there is no reason to remove them, particularly since his tantrum is ongoing.

He earned the tilde for vindictive editing of his trust list. This was helped by the deletion of posts in his self-moderated threads. The next bad thing he did was delete his threads with link collections, which was once again vindictive towards all the forum members.
One wrong negative feedback that initiated the whole drama was not enough reason for me to distrust him. But all of the above, along with a very aggressive way of discussion, led to only one thing, ~

If we were to remove the tilde now because he deleted all the feedback, that would be a violation of the trust system. It would be pure blackmail, pressure with the sole purpose of removing the feedback that we believe is incorrect.
This is how I saw the whole matter.

TL, I'm really surprised that you, who only deal with things related to reputation here on the forum, don't recognize such clear things.

I apologize to mikeywith and to 1miau for this offtopic, you can continue where you left off. 

[digaran]

What happened to 1miau? He realized things are getting heated too much, he decided to hit the road but forgot his tail. If he wasn't acting like a child, none of this was necessary. I mean if you know you are to be blamed, then why let it reach to this point? Unless you are unable to realize and differentiate between right and wrong.

Can we learn at all? Or are we destined to repeat the mistakes of our ancestors, like a repeating loop!?

If people could understand that killing 1 person is equal to killing the whole world, and defaming, accusing 1 person for the wrong reasons is no different than doing it to many people, it'd be a better world.😔

[Timelord2067]

You know a thread has descended into a certain kind of cesspit when suchmoon weighs in to either defend the thin skinned DT Trolls or to spread little more than flat earth style FUD against myself (either way, I wouldn't know - I ignore all users who distrust me).


Now that I'm just thinking about it... A long time ago I seem to recall that I reviewed suchmoon's trust feedbacks which were full of post-it note style vitriol of anyone their gang didn't approve of and hence they (suchmoon) deserves a Tilda along with the three mentioned in this thread. (Plus the one running a protection racket)


If suchmoon did indeed mention me in their comment above, then can somebody please flag their post as OFF TOPIC, I'd rather not have to endure reading their vomit. It's bad enough I can see their name over yonder

<===

[mole0815]

Since a few proofs have been requested, I would also like to say something about this.
It is very difficult to reproduce texts taken out of context and translated by deepl.com 1:1, but let's try:

User: Blitzfontaene

Kannst du ja mal probieren, mir negativen Trust zu geben, was dann passiert. Oder hast du die Eier, dazu einen Beitrag in Meta aufzumachen, weil du dich ja im Recht siehst, dass ich dir einen "negativen Trust" gegeben hätte? Mit deinem Account hast du ja nix zu verlieren, also sind die Ausgangsbedingungen für dich sehr positiv. Aber ich vermute, dass du nicht die Eier zu hast, weil du weißt, dass du hier groben Unfug verbreitest. Es wäre zwar auch möglich, dass dein Wissen über das Trust-System so mangelhaft ist, dass du es nicht verstehst aber der Sachverhalt ist doch recht einfach, daher vermute ich eine bewusste Falschaussage mit "negativer Trust".

You can try giving me negative trust and see what happens. Or do you have the balls to open a post in Meta about it, because you think you're right that I would have given you a "negative trust"? You have nothing to lose with your account, so the starting conditions are very positive for you. But I suspect that you don't have the balls, because you know that you're spreading nonsense here. It's also possible that your knowledge of the trust system is so poor that you don't understand it, but the facts are quite simple, so I suspect a deliberate misstatement with "negative trust".

User: thandie

Den neutralen Trust hast du dir redlich verdient, denn er ist die logische Konsequenz deines kindischen Verhaltens und unreifen Pöbelns.
Zeigt ja auch deine uneinsichtige Reaktion darauf.
Vllt hätte ich ihn entfernt, wenn du dich einsichtig gezeigt hättest aber stattdessen kommt von dir eine neuer Schwung Relativierungen und Diffamierungen zurück.
Der neutrale Trust bleibt jetzt erstmal da. Vllt kommt er irgendwann runter, vllt nicht. Liegt an dir.

Entweder du lebst mit dem neutralen Trust oder du änderst dein Verhalten. Irgendwann solltest du für deine Frechheiten Verantwortung übernehmen, denn wenn du denkst, du könntest deine kriegsverharmlosende Propaganda ohne Konsequenzen im Forum abladen, hast du dich mächtig getäuscht.

You have truly earned the neutral trust, because it is the logical consequence of your childish behavior and immature rabble-rousing.
It also shows your lack of understanding in response.
Perhaps I would have removed it if you had shown some understanding, but instead you have returned with a new wave of relativization and defamation.
The neutral trust will stay there for now. Maybe it will come down at some point, maybe not. It's up to you.

Either you live with the neutral trust or you change your behavior. At some point you should take responsibility for your insolence, because if you think you can dump your war-harmonizing propaganda on the forum without consequences, you're very much mistaken.

User: Unknown01

Weil weißt du, wir kennen DT genau und können sehr gut einschätzen, welche Vergehen extrem verpönt sind.
Ihr habt massig verpönte Vergehen begangen, deren Vermeidung wir euch sogar per PM nahegelegt haben. Ihr habt euch drüber lustig gemacht und fröhlich weiter gegen DT-Standards gehandelt.
So einen Missbrauch und Kindergarten wird DT nicht dulden.
Wenn ihr keine Probleme haben wollt, hört doch einfach auf mit eurem Kindergarten, haltet euch an die DT-Standards, haltet euch an die Forumsregeln und hört auf, zu shitposten!

Ich werde deinen neuen Beitrag zusätzlich archivieren, damit wir bei Zeit etwas zu lachen haben.
Shitposten und den Mund so voll nehmen hat vor DT noch nie funktioniert!

Because you know, we know DT very well and can assess very well which offenses are extremely frowned upon.
You have committed a lot of frowned upon offenses, which we even told you to avoid via PM. You made fun of it and happily continued to act against DT standards.
DT will not tolerate such abuse and kindergarten.
If you don't want to have problems, just stop your kindergarten, stick to the DT standards, stick to the forum rules and stop shitposting!

I'll also archive your new post so we have something to laugh about when the time comes.
Shitposting and running your mouth like this never worked before DT!

This thread came about shortly afterwards: Dangerous and inappropriate use of Trust: giving positive Trust for Shitposters
And further down the line, a comment from Unknown01 (the statement was not OK but not the end of the world either!) was enough to keep him going here: Self-moderated topics - nice feature or should it get banned?  

But the peak had already been reached a little earlier when it came to User: Unknown01 threatens me with a forum ban for saying my opinion.
I am only quoting this thread because the core statement that prompted it has also been addressed here:

Viel Spaß dabei!
Alles ist arrangiert, dass wir dann gleichzeitig einen Beitrag bringen werden, der deine diversen Verfehlungen in den letzen Monaten thematisiert.
Mit deinem nicht vorhandenen Wissen über DT dürfte das sehr ernüchternd für dich werden!
Nestade kann bezeugen, dass dieser Beitrag wirklich gut geworden ist.

Have fun with it!
Everything has been arranged so that we will then simultaneously publish a post discussing your various transgressions over the last few months.
With your lack of knowledge about DT, this should be very sobering for you!
Nestade can testify that this post turned out really well.

In my opinion, this is only due to inconsistencies in the threads Corona + Corona, Russland vs. EU bzw. Amerika etc..


There were also many differences of opinion with user Beobachter_90, but it was Nestade ho left him a similar entry:

Beobachter_90 is a plagiarist (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1926895.msg59558599#msg59558599), shitposter and downplayed Russia's attack on Ukraine (e.g. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5386945.msg59368123#msg59368123).
Furthermore, he blindly parrots Unknown01's lie that I am an alt of 1miau to discredit 1miau and me. ~Beobachter_90 recommended

Source: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=134226

Nestade generally has a lot in common with 1miau but this is only mentioned for the sake of completeness and in my opinion they are no alts from each other.


There was a lot of contact via PN (1miau please read for yourself how harmonious it was between us in our first years together here) but I will not publish any private messages I have received because there are insults and also a lot of drama but it is almost exclusively about the bad moderation of me because I did not let myself be used to censor/delete contrary opinions. But that doesn't have to be the topic here because it's about the trust/feedback topic and we shouldn't mix everything up.

I don't want to keep the discussion going unnecessarily long, but if the issue is on the table and evidence has been requested, then it was time to provide it. At least some of it, because at some point my time on the whole subject will come to an end.

[BabyBandit]

Conversely, anyone who is Tilda-ing Ratimov (or whatever it is he calls himself these days) is guilty of trust abuse as he (Ratimov) currently has posted no trust feedback.

Bullshit. He earned his tildes with poor judgement, there is no reason to remove them, particularly since his tantrum is ongoing.

If you took all this effort that you're spending on making shit up and put it towards understanding how this forum actually works, you'd have all those things that you crave so much, all the trust doohickeys and merit thingamabobs that you can dream of.

How does the forum works & how should the forum work according to whom? Satoshi? Have you speak with him in person how the forum should work 2023? Or is it just a fantasy you and your friends have created?
And when someone opposes you and your friends way of using the forum, why cant you just accept it and do move on with your life's? I don't try to create anything, it's a serious question.
How should this forum works and who have the right to make those rules today? Why cant just people use in in the way it fits their day and we all be happy with that without using drama and feedback and hate against each other?
Think about this for a bit.... you own this forum as little as a newbie register next week. Everyone is only guests here, even you. All this is a fantasy, one day this website will shut down, so enjoy your time here instead of arguing how people should use the forum. Be positive instead of negative, I promise you, you will have so much more fun.  

[digaran]

A true contribution to the community, being a mod, as well as helping to burn the corruption from it's roots.
This is called "Exemplary". I'm sure he has alts, we need to be on the look out for any DT members with similar behaviour, this system is no longer like before when admin directly hand picked DT1s, NO, now all sorts of weirdos can game the algorithm and get on DT.

So we should find such people and remove them from DT, I'm sure they will continue as usual if they are interested in Bitcoin, if not then they would leave.

Everything has been arranged so that we will then simultaneously publish a post discussing your various transgressions over the last few months.

This part is very familiar for me, where have we seen 2 or more known trust abusers using the same tactics? Right 1miau and jollygood cornering BenCodie to have a laugh at him.This is getting serious, looks like we have an actual gang here. They have shown interest in gambling boards and casinos, it could be their headquarter if we were to investigate further.

Nothing will change until we all be united with one sound:
No more abuse and corruption.

[BenCodie]

would it be possible for you to compile a list

Feedback sent for political reasons:

Poly#Crypto is mentally ill like his friends s0nix + Koal-84, keep in mind when you are considering to trade. Would not risk any Satoshi.
Poly#Crypto is a piece of shit, supporting russian aggression: He has no problems when Russia started attacking Ukraine, and Russians are committing war crimes but Poly#Crypto has problems when Ukrainians defend themselves. How should we trust such an asshole? See also previous feedback.

s0nix is mentally ill like his friends Poly#Crypto + Koal-84, keep in mind when you are considering to trade. Would not risk any Satoshi.
s0nix is a piece of shit, supporting russian aggression: He has no problems when Russia started attacking Ukraine, and Russians are committing war crimes but s0nix has problems when Ukrainians defend themselves. How should we trust such an asshole? See also previous feedback

Low value shitposts, spam, burst posting and excessive pyramid-quotes (61052011, 61145452 or 61021354).
In addition, amishmanish downplayed Putin's war by repeatedly spreading pro-russian lies (60250177).
It's discouraged to support such a behaviour by accepting such accounts into signature campaigns.

Shitposting Bitcointalk with low quality spam all day; then openly accusing me for off-topic shitposting...
The value Koal-84 is contributing to the forum is vanishingly small. The only occasion when his posts are getting longer is to find excuses for Russia's war against Ukraine. Disgusting behaviour from Koal-84! Avoid this Account to steer clear from unnecessary spam and derangement most probably caused due to paid signature campaigns.

nullius made some disgusting excuses, when he tried to whitewash Putin's war

Disgusting troll from the German section, where he is infamous for his lies, his unfounded defamations and his Off-Topic Spam Trollposts. Recently he has started to support Putin's war by downplaying it, spreading Kremlin propaganda and s0nix has even started attacking accounts criticizing Putins war.
The behaviour of s0nix is unforgivable and nefarious.

His shameless defamation campaign is completely nuts. He's spreading his spam, Off-Topic bullshit and pro-russian propaganda in many topics and is constantly derailing the discussion. I called him out for his wrongdoing but he doubled down on his misbehaviour.

Poly#Crypto is a troll account in our German local board. Doesn't provide any value for the forum - only spam, shitposts, inaccurate information and (of course) defamations and insults. Tries to find excuses for Putin's war.

Supporting Putins war with Kremlin Propaganda and selling it as "facts". (see my quote in the reference link).
Helping to normalize an ongoing war is a shame. For a while thandie has been a disgusting troll abusing the forum with his off-topic spam.
I addition he's trying to discredit my efforts to help raise funds for civilians in Ukraine.

One tag is not enough - this account offered to trade Merit (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3254613.0;topicseen), his shittoken project is a tremendous fail (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3073043.msg31664978#msg31664978), KingScorpio is a disgusting troll and liar (antisemitic and racist hate comments) and stealing is not an issue for him (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5037733.msg46197278#msg46197278). He's not sane. Better stay safe and avoid KingScorpio.

+ other feedback that was sugar-coated by other "reasons" but was sent RIGHT after a political disagreement like this one

Where 1miau openly admitted that he

5. I'm allowed to tag any troll and I already gave digaran a pass way back in 2022 when I came over him but didn't bother to "poke" the troll digaran.

And

I'm usually only getting active with trust feedbacks, when I'm getting dragged into a confrontation.

It's pretty evident that the negative feedback he left was right after the political disagreement, had they shared the same political view, he wouldn't have sent the feedback.


Trust exclusion for the sole reason of political disagreement

- Mikeywith > https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5474713.msg63187266#msg63187266
- MindRust  >https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5474713.msg63191470#msg63191470
-bullrun2024bro > https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5474713.msg63200560#msg63200560

+ he almost distrusts ALL those to whom he sent political feedback, which would technically also fall under this list if, of course, out of the 70+ exclusions he has, nobody knows how many were done for just "political reasons", but ya, sure thing is, the list will just get longer with more victims to come.

Narcissistic personality disorder, the urge to insult, curse, and punish everyone who disagrees with him, either by leaving them feedback, or exclusion or trying to censorship them one way or the other  

- Mikeywith : He insulted me in public for political disagreement, sent me a PM full of hatred
- Harassing the German mod to delete posts that he doesn't like for personal or political reasons
- Multiple PMs are sent to the German mod  from people who are afraid of talking against 1miau because he would destroy their accounts
- Excluding people from competition for having a different opinion
-Constant attack against many German community members for having different opinions
-Attacked and sent feedback to a German member for political differences
-Threatening a German member via PM to take actions against him most likely using his DT power simply for political disagreement  
- Publically threatening a German member


Extortion

I was contacted by someone who interacted with 1miau for the removal of political feedback, 1miau said (I have to rephrase since the victim is afraid and I promised not to reveal his name in public).

 "if x member does not express his political opinion about x conflict anymore, I might remove my feedback."

I can't reveal more info about this message as it will lead him to know the victim's name, but as I said before, if any DT member wants the proof and promises to never reveal the victim's name, I am willing to send the proof, I made a promise that I would only show the evidence to someone I trust that they would not reveal the victim name.

- Threatening a German member to change his feedback


Mind you that zero digging was done to compile this long list of abuse and harassment, it was also either posted here or PMed to me during the past couple of days, and given how victims keep showing, it seems that the lists above have a great potential of growth, not that I think they need any more points because there is enough proof that 1miau suffers from egomania.

I am disappointed to find out that 1miau despite being smart and productive, he is just like a child who lacks surrounding awareness, if you give him a puzzle to solve, he will do it, a homework to write he will probably do it neatly, but if you leave a knife next to him, the censuses could be devastating.

So are his posts beneficial to the forum? for the most part yes.
Is he a good Merit source? he sure is.
Is he a good DT member? sure thing no.

1miau is going to harm himself and everyone else who goes against him if he stays in DT, if the DT community doesn't make up their mind to put him out of it at least temporarily, my advice to 1miau is to stay out of it himself, not being able to control your feelings and using all tools you have to punish people who disagree with you is a serious problem that needs to be addressed.


In fact, you can ignore all of the above and just look at the fact that there are some members who had to PM me or the German mod to express their fear, those poor souls are afraid to speak up because they fear what 1miau is capable of doing to them, be it a direct or indirect consequence of the way 1miau uses the system if there is at least 1 human being who needs to accept oppression in a forum that was made for a project that was intended to liberate people from centralized entities -- then this has to stop.

I can hear 1miau bashing their keyboard trying to find a way to word their way out of this extremely well made post. My guess is that he will quote you while removing the content so that he can make some nonsensical answer that can't be easily looked at against the quote content, or he will dig up some information about what you said years ago and turn it into a subpar rebuttal...and I assume the post will leave out responses to all of the most compelling content that is impossible to rebut.

In full seriousness, I hope that members who should also be participating in the reputation board start to chime in...and it may be wishful thinking, but I hope that something is done about 1miau's ego and exacerbated tirades are also dialled back to a tolerable level (at a minimum).

One thing is for sure in my opinion, this user should not have the power to have an influential input on another member's reputation, and I will be surprised this is still the case after due time has passed.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

I am working on understanding everything between you two in my own way to see if mikeywith's observations are true or from a manipulated mind.

~1miau is my final take.
My apology to everyone that caused any influence for adding 1miau in my trust list.
It took me a few days to check the development. There are no point to add anything which could worsen the crisis.

[Unknown01]

I'm writing here again because 1. You asked for evidence and 2. because I finally want to have peace in the German local area. There are already enough well-known good accounts no longer in our area because of this guy and I don't want there to be any more. Many people don't say anything because otherwise he threatens them.


Actually, until Corona came, I got along very well with him and I got a lot of Merit from him for my “shitposts”. Then Corona came and we had completely different politically opinions and then he started attacking me, including using bad words. I was also threatened, as mole already wrote, that he and other DT members would take care of me if I didn't stop writing nonsense (i.e. different opinion than his). Suddenly after Corona I was just a shitposter. By the way, I'm not the only one, I estimate 10-15 people from the German local have the same fate as me. A few of these members, some of whom have been/are in the forum for almost 10 years, no longer log in after the guy threatened and attacked them for months.


1miau   2022-05-10:   

Reference   After he was called out for his sigspam, shitposting, nonsense-postings and annoying pyramid-quotes, he over-reacted and instead of admitting his wrongdoing, he doubled down on his misbehaviour: he said, he doesn’t care, doesn’t need to follow the rules and throw defamations at everyone criticizing his wrongdoing. This user commits shitposting at an insane level and is even proud of it

From what he writes there, only one point is true: I actually made pyramid quotes and didn't pay attention to the clarity, but I never said that I wasn't interested in the forum rules. I just said that I wouldn't let him dictate anything to me, but after other nice colleagues politely asked me to improve, I immediately agreed to this request. I mainly post in the German local board and for him my posts since Corona are shitposts. Why after Corona? Well, we had completely different opinions about Corona. For example, I was against many measures and he was in favor of excluding all unvaccinated people from public life.

Then he entered his neutral trusts into my account twice:

Openly spreading defamations and libel against me and other valuable accounts. This shitposter is an insane maniac and instead of admitting his mistakes (sigspam, shitposting, nonsense-postings, annoying pyramid-quotes and inappropriate use of positive Trust) he's proud of it and he keeps pushing his nonsense. This account should never be accepted in any Signature-Campaign again because accepting this account means encouraging spam and abuse on the forum. See also my previous feedbacks

Spreading his insane lies about several established accounts from the German section because he's butthurt that we called out his positive trust abuse, his troll- and shitposting and his disgusting behaviour.
Unknown01 is contributing nothing to the forum and recently, he has started to threaten and attack Newbies.
Unknown01 is an embarassement.

As if that wasn't embarrassing enough, his „friend“ then wrote 2 very similar entries (especially word similarity):

Falsely accuses me of being an alt of 1miau without evidence as a reaction of me giving him neutral trust (more information in Reference).

He has started threatening newbies: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5404157.msg60449095#msg60449095 - he even falesly claims to be in a "group" with the German moderator in order to threaten other users

Like 1miau already pointed out, Unknown01 is a "casual but ardent shitposter". Unknown01 is not admitting his mistakes and keeps pushing his nonsense shitposting like pyramid-quoting etc.
Additionally he's misusing the trust-system by giving MinoRaiola positive trust without any involved trade or anything that justifies POSITIVE trust (https://i.imgur.com/W5ZUCIw.png). ~Unknown01 is recommended.

And as if that wasn't already an exaggeration, a newbie account suddenly wrote a trust, which made me wonder how a newbie knows about the trust-system so well and why a newbie even registers in this forum to talk about political discussions and at the same time 1:1 has the same opinion as 1miau? By the way: This account hasn't been logged in for a long time and was actually only active to take action against me:

User abuses the trust system and trades positive trusts to his friends s0nix and MinoRaiola. See dates of trust entries. This shitposter is an insane maniac and instead of admitting his mistakes (sigspam, shitposting, nonsense-postings, annoying pyramid-quotes and inappropriate use of positive Trust) he's proud of it and he keeps pushing his nonsense. This account should never be accepted in any Signature-Campaign again because accepting this account means encouraging spam and abuse on the forum. See previous feedbacks from other accounts

By the way, he also wrote two neutral trusts!


And no, I 100% didn't threaten him with a ban, but we already had a topic about it in this forum section.

Because of 1miau I got a few ~ entries from people who have never had anything to do with me in their lives. I have been in the forum since 2017 and have already moved a few mBTC here and I dare to say that my colleagues from the German local trust me a lot - just as I trust them a lot.

[digaran]

Do you want to know why the always present army of good is not actively seeking for justice here? Because they don't really care. Anyways, since this is directly involving DT1 members trusting 1miau, I would like to suggest someone send them all the link to the evidences posted by mikey, I don't think me sending it would help the case, ONLY to those DT1 members currently trusting him, also to the next month candidates as well, THEIR input is needed here.

They might not be "aware" of this situation.

[Koal-84]

A week later in week 228 @GazetaBitcoin also added me to his distrust list. No clue why, I never spoke to him. He never spoke to me. Might be a coincidence, but the timing is odd ofc.

However, honestly I don't care and I wouldn't have brought it up, but since @1miau offered "to make improvements" I wanted to add my story to the discussion. Nobody has a 100% strike rate and I am sure he can improve, if he wants to.

I didn't really want to write here (I'm done with this person who is probably unhappy with himself and his life, who always wants to be right, and who also gets very personal and insulting in his trust entries, which he actually wants to prevent with his manner, but if you're not on his line you're automatically against it and make insinuations with friends etc. to users I don't even know), but I felt the same way.

I don't care about his personal trustlist in the war against his opinion (it's also his decision), but I noticed the same thing when I had DT2, GazetaBitcoin suddenly had me on his distrust list and a neutral entry in my trustlist, although the user neither knows me nor probably speaks my language...  

Probably miau had something to do with it, but I don't care anymore.

Shitposter. Brings zero-value to the forum.

No improvement since he received his first warning due to shitposting and supporting the russian invasion against Ukraine. Koal-84 is mentally ill like his friends s0nix + Poly#Crypto, keep in mind when you are considering to trade. Would not risk any Satoshi. Koal-84 is a piece of shit, supporting russian aggression: He has no problems when Russia started attacking Ukraine, and Russians are committing war crimes but Koal-84 has problems when Ukrainians defend themselves. How should we trust such an asshole? See also previous feedback.

Shitposting Bitcointalk with low quality spam all day; then openly accusing me for off-topic shitposting...
The value Koal-84 is contributing to the forum is vanishingly small. The only occasion when his posts are getting longer is to find excuses for Russia's war against Ukraine. Disgusting behaviour from Koal-84! Avoid this Account to steer clear from unnecessary spam and derangement most probably caused due to paid signature campaigns.

[MinoRaiola]

I don't care about his personal trustlist in the war against his opinion (it's also his decision), but I noticed the same thing when I had DT2, GazetaBitcoin suddenly had me on his distrust list and a neutral entry in my trustlist, although the user neither knows me nor probably speaks my language...  

Probably miau had something to do with it, but I don't care anymore.

My guess is that he will have made a lot of decisions together with him. I think Im a very good example of the fact that I was attacked by both of them. I never had anything to do with him before and suddenly he is fighting against me? This is not normal and we could think about creating a new thread in the future "Is GazetaBitcoin fit for DT?“ Or was he manipulated and has now seen that he acted wrongly? That would be better.

If I look at the past, I would think that 1miau is preparing something and we will read another attack from him. If thats not the case, then I would be surprised.

If this doesnt happen, I am very happy that this is coming to an end, I would even be grateful for the peace. But the past can no longer be changed.

[afraid-of-Injustice]

One of my friends' accounts was tagged as a "shitposter" by 1miau. I contacted 1miau on Telegram to inquire about the reason for his feedback and if it could be removed. 1miau stated that he would consider removing it if my friend refrained from discussing the Ukraine war and acknowledged that he was mistaken in his politically neutral stance. I conveyed this to my friend, who agreed, ceasing to post on the political board after 1miau removed the feedback.

My friend remains apprehensive, and when I asked if I could post a screenshot of the conversations with 1miau on Telegram, he declined. However, I suggested that I present it to the administrator or a moderator, or any DT member.


As for me, I created this new account specifically to remain anonymous, ensuring that this oppressive DT member cannot track me or the others who will follow his approach. But I can send the proof in a private message using my original account for a DT member on the forum who does not have 1miau in his trust list.

[digaran]

Is the telegram account of miau publicly posted by himself somewhere? Is his number known to anyone?
No personal information should be revealed, we are not in a position  to do that, so if anyone has a plan like that, refrain from doing it, unless it involves a crime, which should be dealt with by local authorities.

I might be wrong, but is there a DT rule in place to take effect if majority decides not to take action due to involvement of an annoying troll in a case? I don't know why 1miau trust buds are excluding me instead of him, I hope it's not a mental problem, but they seem to be very angry with me, like I kicked their calm and undisturbed nest or something.

Do they even realize people are watching, or maybe they don't take me seriously NOT to mention all the victims of miau and now Gazeta's abusive behaviour + using trust system to censor political opinions.

Do you want to know the reason? Too much freedom for abusers, and lack of oversight.

But we need to give it time, so they can all make up their minds.
@afraid-of-Injustice, with patience you can move mountains, good thing he is not doing any thing right now.
To all others, don't be afraid, express your reasonable and civilized opinions without crossing any lines, if anyone harassed you or threatened you to shut you up, report in reputation board.  The moment you back down, is the moment of their victory.
I got work to do, bye.

[d5000]

I've only now read about this issue (I'm not very active in the meta boards and Reputation) and don't want to add unnecessary content, but it's possible the forum has lost 1miau (they locked several threads with competitions and cancelled them, see this, this and this one).

In my opinion it would be a very sad outcome if 1miau really left, and really hope they can calm down a bit, maybe take a time to relax and then come back, and their "adversaries" in this dispute think a bit about their actions as well. I think 1miau are an excellent high-quality post author and I support their activities against shitposting as well. However I agree with some of you that they may get easily into heated discussions and "shoot over the target" sometimes. And while I agree that everybody can handle their trust settings like they please, I think it should not be used to pressure others. However, some of 1miau's adversaries have shown very questionable stances (radical right-wing in most cases) in some off-topic threads, so I can understand 1miau's anger a bit.

I always wonder when I see such meta problems deriving in such drama but whatever. Let's talk more about Bitcoin instead

[BenCodie]

I've only now read about this issue (I'm not very active in the meta boards and Reputation) and don't want to add unnecessary content, but it's possible the forum has lost 1miau (they locked several threads with competitions and cancelled them, see this, this and this one).

In my opinion it would be a very sad outcome if 1miau really left, and really hope they can calm down a bit, maybe take a time to relax and then come back, and their "adversaries" in this dispute think a bit about their actions as well. I think 1miau are an excellent high-quality post author and I support their activities against shitposting as well. However I agree with some of you that they may get easily into heated discussions and "shoot over the target" sometimes. And while I agree that everybody can handle their trust settings like they please, I think it should not be used to pressure others. However, some of 1miau's adversaries have shown very questionable stances (radical right-wing in most cases) in some off-topic threads, so I can understand 1miau's anger a bit.

I always wonder when I see such meta problems deriving in such drama but whatever. Let's talk more about Bitcoin instead

It might be sad for you or people who enjoyed their posts, but it is definitely not sad for the users who have been attacked by 1miau, who have been dragged into days and days of battling with his drama that could not be considered rational discussion, or fair debate. 1miau will crop content of quotes so that he can respond inappropriately and confuse the reader, 1miau will abuse and insult and then complain when others retaliate, 1miau will add negative labels that apply more to them than to anyone else - and get away with it all.

Imagine how many good members have left, stopped posting or worse, got inappropriate negative trust feedback because of 1miau's tirades, or how many have received negative labels that maybe they did not actually deserve? Everyone is capable of being a high quality member...but a member who disrupts community participation is a member who will not be missed...and relating to this, if 1miau won this debate and mikeywith was discredited or left because of the outcome, would that be a better or worse outcome? Go and look at 1miau vs mikeywith and if we are really talking about true quality and value, mikeywith wins hands down. I'd take a mikeywith over a 1miau every day of the week and a rational community focused on quality, value and less conflict would too in my opinion.

To address what you have said, I doubt 1miau is gone. I am sure they will do or say something soon...it's only been a couple of days. What's more likely is 1miau is overwhelmed with the feeling of being in the wrong, unsupported and speechless for the first time.

[yahoo62278]

1miau might be taking a break as suggested earlier and is letting people read and make a decision. Let's say many people dislike the behavior he has been accused of, that doesn't mean he would need to leave the forum at all. He just needs to change the way he interacts in certain instances. Not use red trust as a tool. Nothing more. You're only kicked out of DT forever if you are constantly leaving bad feedbacks and unwilling to change. We are all learning daily, if you aren't you prob aren't trying to.

[d5000]

Imagine how many good members have left, stopped posting or worse, got inappropriate negative trust feedback because of 1miau's tirades, or how many have received negative labels that maybe they did not actually deserve?

I didn't want to add more to this drama, but this sentence deserves a comment:

I've searched through 1miau's (quite numerous) negative trust entries to other forum members and I saw only two which are not related to scams or other Bitcoin-related illegal/questionable activity. One of them is a very recent one to digaran, probably related to this thread (and thus perhaps could be reverted if they calm down both), and the other one went to Snork1979 and is actually the only one caused by a disagreement over (RL) politics, as they accused Snork1979 of Putin propaganda (this case was already discussed here earlier).

There is some neutral feedback that could be questionable but neutral feedback does generally not have negative consequences for these users, neither has adding a ~ to their username in the trust network. So in general, while I repeat that I myself would not use the trust mechanism in this way, I don't see major abuses.

Perhaps 1miau could take back these two negative trust entries (even if I probably agree with them with their opinion about Snork1979 but I don't speak Russian) and convert them to neutral, and delete some entries in this thread written probably in anger (for example the unexplainably harsh attack on mole0815). Not much really questionable behaviour would be left. As I already said I agree generally with their quite harsh-looking, but often justified actions against low-quality posting.

[icopress]

The OP may have been right about some things, but now it has turned into a witch hunt as I clearly see that all 1miau’s ill-wishers have run into this thread and are trying to scream as loudly as possible. If 1miau leaves the forum it will be a big loss for the forum (btw, he told me that he is leaving the campaign).

[...] Perhaps 1miau could take back these two negative trust entries (even if I probably agree with them with their opinion about Snork1979 but I don't speak Russian) and convert them to neutral, and delete some entries in this thread written probably in anger (for example the unexplainably harsh attack on mole0815). Not much really questionable behaviour would be left. As I already said I agree generally with their quite harsh-looking, but often justified actions against low-quality posting.

Yes, but it doesn't matter since he wasn't the first to give these two users negative feedback. In addition, I am deeply convinced that if we, as a self-sufficient community, adhere to the views of 1 person, then nothing good will end. I wouldn't want this place to turn into a marginal cesspool.

After the introduction of the flag system, red feedback can serve for other "overconfident things (c)". I have always been surprised how everyone vehemently quotes the admin’s phrase in which he talks about the correct use of the feedback system, referring to “trading risks,” but everyone forgets that the feedback system was created for the community and works only thanks to it.

By the way, I am the first to leave negative feedback to this user, because I am deeply convinced that he deserves it, since his rude nationalist statements and repeated calls for the murder of other people are one of the worst things that can happen in our community. And based on this, I am convinced that if he had the opportunity to take away any material property from you or me with impunity, he would do it without any hesitation, so yes ... my tag addressed to this user will remain red, since I believe that this is more than a “trading risk”.

[mikeywith]

but neutral feedback does generally not have negative consequences for these users

Will you be fine with a neutral feedback on your profile that says " d5000 is a shit poster, low value member who supports x country" , based on your logic -- that should be fine, or am i missing something? I could be wrong, but i think anyone looking at such feedback will think of and treat you differently with and without such feedback, i find it hard to believe that just because the text is in gray/black instead of red -- it means it has no effect.

Also if someone truly thinks it has no effect , i.e it is 100% useless , why waste time using it? The fact that people use it -- they know for sure it would be seen, if it can be seen it will always have an impact regadless of the text color or the naming.

 

, but now it has turned into a witch hunt as I clearly see that all 1miau’s ill-wishers have run into this thread and are trying to scream as loudly as possible.

Do you think that there are no victims here at all? All are made up stories and fake PMs trying to hurt 1miau for no valid reason?
Or, are you saying that some of them are but not all?

~1miau is my final take.
It took me a few days to check the development. There are no point to add anything which could worsen the crisis.

Good to see you finally took the right action, and came to see that this was not a personal issue between him and I, tho I find it amusing how he managed to convince / manipulate many readers into thinking that this is a personal fight between 1miau and mikeywith and not 1miau abuse.

some were even asking to shake hands and move on, i think his tactic was to attack me, this way things would seem like "personal", and then get a few fellow DT friends to come here and comment about how great of a DT user he is " you can see them in the comments", this way any one reading this mess would think oh, some DT folks here support 1miau, this is a personal issue between the two of them, no abuse, lets move on.

So ya it takes courage and desire to seek the truth, otherwise someone could possibly be manipulated by 1miau mind games if they are not paying enough attention.


 

[MinoRaiola]

The OP may have been right about some things, but now it has turned into a witch hunt as I clearly see that all 1miau’s ill-wishers have run into this thread and are trying to scream as loudly as possible. If 1miau leaves the forum it will be a big loss for the forum (btw, he told me that he is leaving the campaign).

This witch hunt would never exist if he hadnt done so many things wrong in the last 3 years. What you are reading here is perhaps only a small part of what really happened and it is very important that this is finally said and that it stops. The German board has tried it over the last years, it didnt help, it got worse. Some users may no longer be here because of him, that is not okay and it has to stop. So much time and anger has grown on him, he didnt understand and now has to deal with it. Karma will fix it - this is how it works.

I also remember a time before Corona, it was much better. Only he himself can decide whether it will be like this again.

There is some neutral feedback that could be questionable but neutral feedback does generally not have negative consequences for these users, neither has adding a ~ to their username in the trust network. So in general, while I repeat that I myself would not use the trust mechanism in this way, I don't see major abuses.

You probably know him from a time before Corona and it was valuable to have such users in a forum with freedom of expression. But you also know that it has been unpleasant in recent years and he has repeatedly attacked the community.

3 years the German part of the forum has put up with his actions and I had predicted what is happening now. Good that you want to defend him, but the evidence is extreme and there is still a lot missing - we havent seen it all.

[mole0815]

I gladly agree with some of the previous speakers and appreciate the majority of 1miau's contributions.
Top-notch expertise, but unfortunately overshoots the mark or exaggerates on topics such as corona, war and, for example, denglish - and does so repeatedly and deliberately!

And no, I don't want to get rid of 1miau, nor do I want to scare him off or pillory him. For me, this is about some of the points raised in the OP and that needs to be clarified in the long term.
Otherwise all the effort here (and in the past) would have been in vain and we would all like to have a proper basis for our shared hobby (BTC) in the future.

Unfortunately, the thread has become very confusing and if you haven't followed it from the beginning, it's also difficult to keep an overview.
It would certainly help if mikeywith created an overview (as already started here) as briefly and concisely but as complete as possible (and linked in the OP) so that the information stays together.

For me, bitcointalk stands for freedom of expression/speech.
It would be against it if we tolerate censoring different opinions.
Whether by feedback, trust, "report to moderator", subliminally wrapped up in other topics or addressed openly and directly.

THAT is the issue. And if all this had not happened in the small German-speaking area but in a more prominent place in the forum, the issue would have been clarified X months (even years) ago, but it has now taken a little longer for it to be addressed here.
It doesn't only concern 1miau but in this thread it does and therefore it almost looks like a witch hunt - but in my opinion it shouldn't become one.

Whether trust, neutral or distrust is of course up to you.
It needs to be clarified in the long term and I think 1miau will probably wait for this decision before he speaks up again.

Do you like discussing? Then an internet forum is just the thing for you! Forum actually refers to a place where people come together - for example, to discuss issues.

In an Internet forum, every visitor can publish posts on a specific topic or write replies to such posts.
These are then commented on by others - creating a real discussion.

Source: https://www.internet-abc.de/kinder/lexikon/f/forum/

Different opinions and views are part and parcel of a discussion.
If you try to prevent that in any way whatsoever, that's not okay! That's the point!

[Koal-84]

My guess is that he will have made a lot of decisions together with him. I think Im a very good example of the fact that I was attacked by both of them. I never had anything to do with him before and suddenly he is fighting against me? This is not normal and we could think about creating a new thread in the future "Is GazetaBitcoin fit for DT?“ Or was he manipulated and has now seen that he acted wrongly? That would be better.

I am definitely not in favour of this, then we would be doing the same thing and making a personal attack on another member. I replied to bullrun's post that it is the same for me and for me the matter is settled.

I always wonder when I see such meta problems deriving in such drama but whatever. Let's talk more about Bitcoin instead

That's exactly how it is and it would be a shame if he resigned completely, meow also had expertise in Bitcoin and blockchain but he couldn't stop insisting on his "right" opinion for himself personally since Corona and wanted to discredit members who thought differently in a free opinion forum.

The OP may have been right about some things, but now it has turned into a witch hunt as I clearly see that all 1miau’s ill-wishers have run into this thread and are trying to scream as loudly as possible. If 1miau leaves the forum it will be a big loss for the forum (btw, he told me that he is leaving the campaign).

For me, the topic was already closed if I was not marked here, and after reading bullrun's post I only commented that it was the same for me. The rest is history for me, but you can still point out verbal outbursts and untruths in the Trust posts.  

[digaran]

.... (and thus perhaps could be reverted if they calm down both),......

.....but neutral feedback does generally not have negative consequences for these users.....

Good thing he found me, otherwise he was laughing at his victims while posting, getting merits, getting paid. He thought of me as a doormat, "oh look there is digaran, he just said something I dislike, let me introduce my boots to his face, nobody cares, after all HE ALREADY got several tags" he mistook a land mine with a doormat.

Well, he was wrong, dictators are always wrong, and they run into hiding when they are defeated, hitler is the most infamous example.
...........
His neutral feedback is a subtle extortion method, it says "I'm in charge, watch your tone or else...."
@icopress, you are lucky you are a victim of an unjust war along with your nation, otherwise I would have shown you "admin's quote, where he says don't tag people for their ideas and political opinions or their opinions in general", since you want to be a soldier and adhere to the commands of your commander.


"Friends", look here :

Old feedbacks are not on the table as they are a thing of the past and otherwise DT would have removed me, which didn't happen

What am I doing, of course you agree with this parasite, I meant the other friends.


Point being, nobody needs to be told what to do, if 1miau or anyone wants to do as they please, great, but do it as a normal member, not when you are on DT, because then we all know nobody gives a single sat about your opinions.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

Good to see you finally took the right action, and came to see that this was not a personal issue between him and I, tho I find it amusing how he managed to convince / manipulate many readers into thinking that this is a personal fight between 1miau and mikeywith and not 1miau abuse.

I was in a fence to think it was a personal problem between you two but when I was seeing more cases which were coming from other members then I had to look deeper.

Feedback and DT inclusion/exclusion are not meant to use for agreement and disagreement. When one is using it for disagreement then it automatically risk the free speech. Other side will be always worried for their forum reputation [feedback page and DT voting status] before making a post against someone who do not share the same view [political or even general].

[nullCoiner]

I can not remain silent, so i have to do this single trollfeed, which I already regret.

It couldn't be more personal, just read the title.
It is shameful and inexcusable how 1miau is treated here in this personal bs crusade, and this is not the first attempt. really folks Hitler comparisons and telling icopress to be lucky of being victim of war?  and saying 1miau is a parasite? who is being political and insulting?

@mole0815 you now i respect you and the way you do your chosen work here, but this time, this is just wrong to defame something in public in such a way, even if 1miau should think again about some of it's decisions...

[Unknown01]

The OP may have been right about some things, but now it has turned into a witch hunt as I clearly see that all 1miau’s ill-wishers have run into this thread and are trying to scream as loudly as possible. If 1miau leaves the forum it will be a big loss for the forum (btw, he told me that he is leaving the campaign).

What is your alternative suggestion? No consequences for all these years? As we said, many people from the german board are no longer active because of him, so you don't care about these people?

And just because more and more people are coming forward doesn't mean it's a witch hunt. So you want people to not come forward and be quiet?

I don't think you have any bad intentions, but you're just trying to trivialize bad actions and defend a bad person who you believe is a good one (he is good to people who agree with him)

There were other people who had a different opinion about Corona or other political topics, including much more valuable persons like qwk, but we were able to talk and discuss objectively without him insulting me or others or threatening us with consequences. The alternative was possible but 1miau never wanted it. Only his opinion counts and every other opinion must be destroyed - that is his wish.

[mole0815]

@mole0815 you now i respect you and the way you do your chosen work here, but this time, this is just wrong to defame something in public in such a way, even if 1miau should think again about some of it's decisions...

I have only provided the requested/required evidence.

No more and no less.
The respective author is responsible for the rest of the statements made here.

I have never used these words in this way and never would... so I don't know why it is being presented in this way.

[digaran]

I can not remain silent, so i have to do this single trollfeed, which I already regret.

It couldn't be more personal, just read the title.
It is shameful and inexcusable how 1miau is treated here in this personal bs crusade, and this is not the first attempt. really folks Hitler comparisons and telling icopress to be lucky of being victim of war?  and saying 1miau is a parasite? who is being political and insulting?

@mole0815 you now i respect you and the way you do your chosen work here, but this time, this is just wrong to defame something in public in such a way, even if 1miau should think again about some of it's decisions...

You broke silent? Great, you are unhappy about my opinion regarding 1miau and icopress who have both tagged people for political opinions? Great.

But did you use your DT tag to call me a scammer, liar and a troll? If you do that, we'd have the same issue.

You can open a topic on P&S to discuss politics, not using trust feedback like they do, but if you disagree with what I suggest and think it's OK to tag people for politics related stuff? Well we are here to understand that if everyone also agrees and thinks the same way.

Because you know, I might one day say hey instead of hello, and that could be percieved as a political disagreement  to warrant a negative trust.  We wanna prepare ourselves for such a community.

We wanna know where to draw a line, now we know, where your line is, you were silent and indifferent to miau abuses and DT manipulations because you didn't care, but now you care because I said something you didn't like.

Do I have a problem with that line? Of course I do, but as long as you don't base your reasons for trust feedback on that line, I don't care.

As I already said, I can't give a single sat for someone calling me a scammer and a liar.

[d5000]

Yes, but it doesn't matter since he wasn't the first to give these two users negative feedback.

I meant this proposal more as a sign of goodwill from 1miau, not that these users don't deserve this kind of feedback. Maybe if he does this he has a slight chance to return to DT1, making his anti-scam trust entries more visible again.

(Edit: Alternative: Other DT1 members could "clone" 1miau's scam-related trust entries, so they stay visible.)

Will you be fine with a neutral feedback on your profile that says " d5000 is a shit poster, low value member who supports x country" , based on your logic -- that should be fine, or am i missing something?.

Trust in the decentralized way it's used here is a bit like a personal opinion, so I read it as "user X thinks that user Y is Z", not "user Y is Z". Post history of all users is publicly available too, and gives often some insights why these neutral trusts may have been sent. Everybody who does a significant business decision (e.g. trading significant amounts of coins with an user, accepting them into a campaign etc.) should check both.

And the shitposting issue is definitively one where I'm on 1miau's side. The forum is still a great place of debate about Bitcoin. But it has suffered a lot due to this issue, and I'm thankful for everybody willing to invest the time to fight it.

Do you think that there are no victims here at all?

Indeed I don't see really a "victim" here. There were heated discussions and personal opinions left (as neutral trust entries). Things that happen on the internet every second. I do however acknowledge that 1miau does sometimes discuss in an aggressive way and even may behave unfairly (like in his attack here to mole0815), but who can say that he never did that? Those who really got engaged with him in these OT discussions often were not exactly Mother Theresa too - many of them have/had extreme right-wing opinions and/or adhere to conspiracy theories and were also quite aggressive in their discussion style too. In several cases I could perfectly understand why 1miau got angry. Not in all though, but people are different. (And yes, I've followed some of these discussions, mostly passively.)

@MinoRaiola: So you think that's only 1miau's fault that threads like those about Corona and the Ukraine war got closed? What about Blitzfontaene etc. (very aggressive German anti-vaxx user for those who don't know)? I think there were always two sides who contributed to this heated atmosphere. I think some of his attacks on people like you, mole0815 or thandie (or even me ) were not justified but probably written in anger due to other contributors the same day/week.

[digaran]

and telling icopress to be lucky of being victim of war?  and saying 1miau is a parasite? who is being political and insulting?

Ok, now I get it why you got mad, I never said you are lucky to be a victim as in you deserve it or deserve worse than that. No. First time I saw a tank shooting at civilian buildings, I realized rasputin has lost his mind and should go through a naked walk of shame.
But I never had any discussions with any of them, Now if we had old grudges, me and miau and I orchestrate a witch  hunt to get back at him, you could blame me, I never had any interactions with him, he started it.

And if he had removed his tag on me, then all his victims and future victims could never be truly free of his dictatorship and manipulation tactics.

You can't paint me as evil, anyways I don't know what left or right fried wings means and don't care, but if you want to discuss politics and know my opinions, I will give them to you, in P&S board, I doubt however you could digest them or even understand them. My political opinion is called "restart".
If 1miau DT supporters think that in time everything will cool down, especially after all the mockery and insults, think again.

I have been here for a year now, I didn't mess with anyone, they started it, if they wanted war, well I strive for it. I can take on all of you abusers, bring it on.

[MinoRaiola]

@MinoRaiola: So you think that's only 1miau's fault that threads like those about Corona and the Ukraine war got closed? What about Blitzfontaene etc. (very aggressive German anti-vaxx user for those who don't know)? I think there were always two sides who contributed to this heated atmosphere. I think some of his attacks on people like you, mole0815 or thandie (or even me ) were not justified but probably written in anger due to other contributors the same day/week.

There are always two to a discussion and in a forum can quickly turn into many, and there are usually two sides. Thats what happened in this thread: good vs bad?

That you are now defending him is a okay and now put yourselves in our position, we have been doing this for many years. All are welcome to discuss opinions and show your passion, but why didnt he call for help (except maybe from you). Why didnt he ask us? Why did he want to extortion and will manipulate us?

If he had honestly asked for help, I would have been one of the first to support him and I am sure that almost everyone else in the German local would have done the same. There is a great example of how we helped Real-Duke together. A lot can be done if we want to.

But I will fight for justice as best I can, Im not just doing it here with a few words, I doing it almost all my life and I hope I can do it until the end.

[Beobachter_90]

I have solved the Problem with @1miau. I use the "Ignore" Button. It's Not possible to discuss with him.
There is only one opinion and that is his.

It's so bad that a lot of old members left Bitcoin Talk because of one member.

[suchmoon]

Now that I'm just thinking about it... A long time ago I seem to recall that I reviewed suchmoon's trust feedbacks which were full of post-it note style vitriol of anyone their gang didn't approve of and hence they (suchmoon) deserves a Tilda along with the three mentioned in this thread. (Plus the one running a protection racket)

I don't understand most of this rant but one thing that I vehemently agree with is that if you don't trust my judgement (in this thread or anywhere else) you should, no, you must most definitely do the tilde on me and it will solve all your problems forever.


That is applicable to this drama as well. All of those fanning the flames, just tilde 1miau, the OP, or both, how hard can it be. It's not like any argument you make here can possibly change anyone's opinion - look in the mirror and honestly tell yourself that you're open to changing your opinion. Thought so.

How does the forum works & how should the forum work according to whom? Satoshi? Have you speak with him in person how the forum should work 2023? Or is it just a fantasy you and your friends have created?
And when someone opposes you and your friends way of using the forum, why cant you just accept it and do move on with your life's? I don't try to create anything, it's a serious question.
How should this forum works and who have the right to make those rules today? Why cant just people use in in the way it fits their day and we all be happy with that without using drama and feedback and hate against each other?
Think about this for a bit.... you own this forum as little as a newbie register next week. Everyone is only guests here, even you. All this is a fantasy, one day this website will shut down, so enjoy your time here instead of arguing how people should use the forum. Be positive instead of negative, I promise you, you will have so much more fun.  

LOL what a moronic rant... it's not "my way of using the forum". There are objective facts how e.g. trust system or merit works, and those things didn't even exist when satoshi was still around. Nowadays dimwits like you and TL like to make shit up as if said shit has the same weight as facts. It doesn't. Fucking participation trophy generation.

[digaran]

So, after seeing that people are showing interest to red tag or create flag for another user doing the same as 1miau did, I would like to mention he cancelled 3 ongoing competitions and no longer is honoring what he promised to pay. So if anyone who was a participant in those competitions wants compensation and feels they were kind of scammed by 1miau, you should wait to see if anyone creates or tags symmetrick for the same breach of contract or not, then you could go ahead and do the same.

Why I say wait? To see if people can be forgiving or not, however you have the rights to do it right now, but forgiving is also an option.

Here are the 3 events :
 this, this and this one).

[1miau]

1miau might be taking a break as suggested earlier and is letting people read and make a decision.

Yes, after a few days off, it’s always better to find a solution and despite all the disagreements with my neutral trusts, I’m here to address it.

So, after seeing that people are showing interest to red tag or create flag for another user doing the same as 1miau did, I would like to mention he cancelled 3 ongoing competitions

These are my voluntary, private giveaways, which I've been running every year as a community contribution. I've been far too generous instead of ill-seeking trolls like you. It's my giveaway, if someone doesn't like free Bitcoin, don't participate. I'm handling the funds as it's my giveaway. No giveaway was concluded and the return of all sponsoring funds, was discussed and settled with funds being send back.


First, many thanks for those, who tried to explain the situation on the German board, why I’ve left these neutral ratings.

It happened quite frequently, that threads in the German board were derailed on purpose by those, who have caught a neutral trust back then. And these neutral trusts are very important for readers to get an impression before interacting with these people, that every reader can make up his own opinion.
The abuses were quite severe because repeatedly, they’ve trolled with blunt lies even after the remaining members had debunked them. Anyone who dared to criticize the massive trolling was accused of "oppression", like these spammers are still calling it today but the reality is that our trolls can’t face any criticism without crying "oppression".

They just want to spread their propaganda without getting exposed as lies and getting called out for doing that.
That’s what they want and of course I will use my right for free speech to debunk that and call them out for spreading lies.
It’s not my problem that they were not ready for criticism.

So, our trolls are the ones who were always trying to prevent our spot-on criticism against their lies. Because it exposed their lies.

And these abusers in question did that derailing, lying and trolling again, again and again, despite some warnings from the moderation in the early days.
Quite a few members called out our trolls back then for their derailing, but unfortunately, some of these sane members have left the board, while a whole bunch of these abusers is still around.
Annoyed from the drama and despite the obvious lies from our trolls, the trolls were successful to trick the German moderator into doing little to nothing, sometimes a few weak warnings, when the derailing was too much. But overally, the trolls always tried to push the boundaries to their benefit. Of course, we pushed back, with criticism, with exposing their lies and neutral trust if there was any documented abuse.

We called for the moderator to sort out the issue and to do the moderation job. Even Nazi sympathizing gained traction or, legitimizing the war of Russia against Ukraine and spreading proven lies, of course. The trolls tried to derail our criticism by posting the same lies, re-phrased, again and again. But our feedback to take action against this was not heard.
Even later, plagiarism was covered up and even clear rule violation posts were ignored.
Of course, that emboldened the trolls. And they are now taking the chance to get rid of the consequences they got back then. 

At some point, we have to ask, if such misbehaiour is really beneficial for Bitcointalk or if the community should be able to push back and add a simple neutral trust for this mixture of lies, propaganda, trolling, derailing, shitposting and other things, where neutral trust is appropriate.
I believe, yes, it’s possible.
Neutral trust is completely fine for such things, it’s not negative, if there’s no abuse involved, where a negative trust is deserved. Neutral trust is “hey, before any interaction, you might be interested to read this, here’s a reference link”. 
That’s a very uncontroversial neutral trust in my opinion.
And DT will approve or disapprove that.

Of course, I will also PM certain abusers before opening a topic in Reputation to avoid more drama, if that drama can be avoided. Or should I slap them the topic directly in their face, without any heads-up, like mikeywith did here?

No need for me to be on DT, I believe in a truly decentralized system, where no one is able to dictate, which neutral trust ratings are acceptable or not. If other members are getting legitimized to interfere how other members are allowed to give out neutral trusts, our trolls will start new witch hunts again and again, terrorizing DT members.
And mikeywith is clearly doing this, without backing down from his initial claims, that I would have to remove all past feedbacks of the sort explained above AND for new feedbacks (and if there are new feedbacks, there would be the same witch-hunt again).
Let the whole community decide if they want to have these neutral feedbacks visible by default or not.

To address some of the abuses, where a legitimate neutral trust was given, without doubt:


MinoRaiola

MinoRaiola is a known plagiarizer, getting caught already in 3 cases (probably, there’s even more).
MinoRaiola is a known shitposter, also defending his shitposter friends.
MinoRaiola was caught to circle positive trust for no reason with his pal Unknown01 to bolster their accounts in signature campaigns.
That’s why MinoRaiola deserves his neutral trust.


Unknown01

Unknown01 is an excessive shitposter in our local German section.
He got even a reprimand:

@Unknown01, you make many posts like these:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1336682.msg57014417#msg57014417
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1336682.msg57014702#msg57014702
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5269042.msg57008252#msg57008252
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=628413.msg57004830#msg57004830
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5312941.msg57003942#msg57003942

All of the above are (to me) hard to conisder as constructive posts. One liners, without quoting or seemingly addressing anyone in the thread and ending in a smiley (which to me makes it look even more like a one-liner).
I'd like to think I have been very consistent with how I count posts in all of my campaigns, not to mention lenient.


Most of my clients will often ask me why I accept/count local board posts and I always fight for you guys, to let you keep posting in local boards and getting paid for it. Just needs to be more compelling and we're all good, you guys know I love the german subs!

My reminders to apply a high posting quality have been met with aggressive name-calling, crybaby excuses and defamations (see the neutral feedbacks on his account).
Unknown01 was caught to circle positive trust for no reason with his pal MinoRaiola to bolster their accounts in signature campaigns.
That’s why Unknown01 deserved his neutral trust.

It's no surprise, we can find even more, when we are digging. For everyone who wants to make his own opinion, you can read the trust feedbacks and click the reference link. That’s why I’ve always included a reference link for every reader to make DYOR.
These liars and their enablers might show up here and tell you anything. All the feedbacks have a reference link, where everyone can read up the truth himself. The links above are a great start for the abuses, MinoRaiola and Unknown01 are involved in.


Another issue is paid shitposting.
Signature campaigns are somehow a problem causing this but I believe the real problem are greedy shitposters and I’ve been ready to call them out. Unfortunately, when there are too many of these, they will take revenge at some point. I’ve left them neutral trust ratings, that everyone can read up on the issue and make up his own opinion, so everyone will be aware of some of them.

Now, that they are seeing the witch hunt launched by mikeywith here, they will gladly join to score some cheap points.
Like mikeywith, they are obsessed to throw with dirt.

Just to address the last accusations.

Luckily, the situation had calmed down on the German board over the last year a bit.
I'm not so sure if that will stay like that after the recent discord.
But let's hope so.


I’ve left the [banned mixer] signature campaign as well to give other members a chance to join as I will reduce my time here on Bitcointalk for now and I don’t want to block this spot.


Regarding a possible solution:

The last time, I’ve already made massive concessions regarding future trust feedbacks.

To find a suitable solution, I’m also willing to review all of my trust feedbacks in question.
But I’ll decide which ones will stay and which ones will get removed. That’s already a massive concession since I believe, that trust interference is setting a very dangerous precedent, as described above.

So, I’m crossing my red line both in future feedbacks and also in past feedbacks. I’ve done my part here to find a solution, also for future "abuses", where anyone can complain here but if there’s not enough controversy for these presented "cases" of my new, neutral trust feedbacks, these people will expose their true, malicious intentions. 

[digaran]

Lol, you don't need to negotiate, just don't silent people for their political opinions, stop blackmailing people and manipulating DT election do the right thing, if you wanna hear from others what the right thing is, that means you can't be DT, or if your behaviour is considered to be Ok in your own eyes, means you can't change, no matter the excuses. 

We are not interested to talk about each case individually, we are trying to reach a global understanding and draw the lines.  Don't wait for others to tell you what is good.

But I accept the terms if you don't bully others and don't use DT influence to make people your subjects or trying to get DT votes by threatening, and don't mention anything about my tag on you, lol. Don't fall to the same trap as symmetrick.

[mikeywith]

To find a suitable solution, I’m also willing to review all of my trust feedbacks in question.

That is a great start 1miau, see, sometimes winning against yourself is worth more than winning against many, it takes courage to admit that somethings we do are just, simply put "mistakes" that need to corrected.

I know for a fact that you will be very mad if someone from DT left you a feedback that says "Pro NATO, shitposter, low value" , i want you to imagine 3-4 similar feedbacks on your great 1miau profile, they don't look pretty, do they? So if you can't accept them for yourself -- don't impose them on others.

These are my voluntary, private giveaways

Technically, you violated a contract with the participants, you pledged to give prizes to the winners, and thus, people participated for that reason, any participant on one of the 4 contests you canceled can technically issue a flag type 3 against you for violating a contract, myself being one of them won't do it because you nicely invited me back then when we were "good friends" long before you read my comments in P&S -- although now that I think about it, I think I was never your friend, I was just another "well established" member that you used to increase your power on forum, your lobbying skills are indeed top-notch to say the least.

[yahoo62278]

These are my voluntary, private giveaways

Technically, you violated a contract with the participants, you pledged to give prizes to the winners, and thus, people participated for that reason, any participant on one of the 4 contests you canceled can technically issue a flag type 3 against you for violating a contract, myself being one of them won't do it because you nicely invited me back then when we were "good friends" long before you read my comments in P&S -- although now that I think about it, I think I was never your friend, I was just another "well established" member that you used to increase your power on forum, your lobbying skills are indeed top-notch to say the least.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with this. Same thing goes for the Ratimov deal, I feel you guys are in the wrong and should pay out the prizes promised. In your case it's under 100$ in his case much more, but the amount doesn't matter. You made a commitment IMO and should honor it.

The reason I type the word unfortunately is because I don't want anyone to think i'm taking sides and picking on 1miau. Mikey just answered before I had time to.

[1miau]

To find a suitable solution, I’m also willing to review all of my trust feedbacks in question.

That is a great start 1miau, see, sometimes winning against yourself is worth more than winning against many, it takes courage to admit that somethings we do are just, simply put "mistakes" that need to corrected.

Nice to see we can find some common ground here and I'll look into my past feedbacks tomorrow.
After all, we need to come along with each other and reviewing my past feedbacks can help here in my opinion.

Technically, you violated a contract with the participants, you pledged to give prizes to the winners, and thus, people participated for that reason, any participant on one of the 4 contests you canceled can technically issue a flag type 3 against you for violating a contract

Techically, that could be expected, yes.
For now, no one has been damaged as my giveaways aren't finalized but the winners definitely could make claims after the giveaways have concluded.
I could re-open it or (for example) send some funds to someone else on my behalf to deal with it.
I will find a solution, where none of the legitimate winners will suffer any loss.

I feel you guys are in the wrong and should pay out the prizes promised.

There'll be a positive solution, where prizes are paid.  

[digaran]

1miau, there is no reviewing, your political beliefs should not be visible by all members, if we ever asked you for your opinions on someone, bring whatever you have and express them by posting on a topic, if there is a good and sound reason to alert the whole world about a person, tag them accordingly.
As for me, you have provided no convincing evidence other than basing your accusations on some unfounded info which you haven't analyzed for yourself and which are totally unrelated to whatever I have done since 2022.

You don't have to listen to what I say, but just think about them, and please stop mocking and harassing people with your love buddy JG, do you like a few members keep harassing you for months?

I mean even water molecules have feelings, if you insult a glass of water and then freeze it, you'll find malformed ice crystals under microscope, while complementing the water will give you nicely formed and beautiful crystals.

So think about them and then do your best, when you do something bad and a few DTs like it, they are not your friends, look for other role models.

Inviting people to do good and to abandon misdeeds is my duty, the rest is up to you.

Regardless of your decision my tag stays, if I remove it now in hopes of you doing the same, that would be bad, besides I have legit evidence, but since you agreed to change, I also revised it.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

Another issue is paid shitposting.
Signature campaigns are somehow a problem causing this but I believe the real problem are greedy shitposters and I’ve been ready to call them out. Unfortunately, when there are too many of these, they will take revenge at some point. I’ve left them neutral trust ratings, that everyone can read up on the issue and make up his own opinion, so everyone will be aware of some of them.

When you see a shitpost, report it to moderator. Spams will be taken care by the people who are assigned to the role. Leaving a feedback even if that is neutral shows some sort of judging a user publicly, many do not like it at all. On the other hand, who are you to judge others like that? Actmyname earned some sort of mutual trust from the community to do that but you, JollyGood and some others are far away from such position.

It seems you are always using a plural form [we, our] of person when explaining certain things. Surely I am not attached to any of these we/our LOL.

[d5000]

@1miau: Isn't it a bit harsh to categorize MinoRaiola as a "known shitposter/plagiarizer" for three (IMO very minor) cases from 2021 and one opinion of a gambling board member (who also categorized this way some other members I'm surprised about finding them in such a list)? I can only judge for the German board because I've not crossed him in the international forum but his posts there are not particularly bad, often he brings some interesting news.

(I hope that is my last intervention here, but that's a doubt I have still.)

[MinoRaiola]

~

I think I could write the most valuable posts of all and he would still judge me like that. He has only negative things for me, you can read about that here. But it is nice to read this question here.

If I look at the past, I would think that 1miau is preparing something and we will read another attack from him. If thats not the case, then I would be surprised.

And now we can see, I was right again. He cant let it go, he always has to mark me negative, I ask myself after all this why doesnt he stop?

Nobody can change the past, but they can change the future. But I can see that something is changing, so I hope things are going in a good direction now and the future will bring us less trouble.

[Timelord2067]

As with 1miau, TSC (formerly The Pharmacist) has been using that same rehetoric to justify countless hundreds of "shit poster" trust feedback abuses hence they've both left me no choice but to Tilda them both as they don't appear to want to modify their trust feedback abuses.

The weekly update is just around the corner.

[jokers10]

Regarding a possible solution:

The last time, I’ve already made massive concessions regarding future trust feedbacks.

To find a suitable solution, I’m also willing to review all of my trust feedbacks in question.
But I’ll decide which ones will stay and which ones will get removed. That’s already a massive concession since I believe, that trust interference is setting a very dangerous precedent, as described above.

So, I’m crossing my red line both in future feedbacks and also in past feedbacks. I’ve done my part here to find a solution, also for future "abuses", where anyone can complain here but if there’s not enough controversy for these presented "cases" of my new, neutral trust feedbacks, these people will expose their true, malicious intentions.  

Deleting politically motivated tags would be the right decision. Leaving any political tags by any DT member opens Pandora's box: if this will become legitimate we can face with different political DT gangs and the result of DT wars will be based on a number of friends in each. If there will be more or less equal number of friends, then just nearly all will get red tags. It doesn't matter if I agree with your political position or not. I don't agree with political tags in the Trust system in general.

When I walked down the list of DT members to look at their tags to see if I want to add someone to my own Trust list I saw a political tag left by your account and some other accounts and that was a significant reason not to add them to my Trust list. It doesn't matter which political stance do you take, what matters is that politically motivated tags is what should not be in the Trust system. By default.

And you can see that a total majority of DT members has no politically motivated tags at all, I guess they understand the risks it could bring.

[Unknown01]

Unknown01

Unknown01 is an excessive shitposter in our local German section.
He got even a reprimand:

@Unknown01, you make many posts like these:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1336682.msg57014417#msg57014417
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1336682.msg57014702#msg57014702
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5269042.msg57008252#msg57008252
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=628413.msg57004830#msg57004830
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5312941.msg57003942#msg57003942

All of the above are (to me) hard to conisder as constructive posts. One liners, without quoting or seemingly addressing anyone in the thread and ending in a smiley (which to me makes it look even more like a one-liner).
I'd like to think I have been very consistent with how I count posts in all of my campaigns, not to mention lenient.


Most of my clients will often ask me why I accept/count local board posts and I always fight for you guys, to let you keep posting in local boards and getting paid for it. Just needs to be more compelling and we're all good, you guys know I love the german subs!

My reminders to apply a high posting quality have been met with aggressive name-calling, crybaby excuses and defamations (see the neutral feedbacks on his account).
Unknown01 was caught to circle positive trust for no reason with his pal MinoRaiola to bolster their accounts in signature campaigns.
That’s why Unknown01 deserved his neutral trust.

It's no surprise, we can find even more, when we are digging. For everyone who wants to make his own opinion, you can read the trust feedbacks and click the reference link. That’s why I’ve always included a reference link for every reader to make DYOR.
These liars and their enablers might show up here and tell you anything. All the feedbacks have a reference link, where everyone can read up the truth himself. The links above are a great start for the abuses, MinoRaiola and Unknown01 are involved in.


Another issue is paid shitposting.
Signature campaigns are somehow a problem causing this but I believe the real problem are greedy shitposters and I’ve been ready to call them out. Unfortunately, when there are too many of these, they will take revenge at some point. I’ve left them neutral trust ratings, that everyone can read up on the issue and make up his own opinion, so everyone will be aware of some of them.

Now, that they are seeing the witch hunt launched by mikeywith here, they will gladly join to score some cheap points.
Like mikeywith, they are obsessed to throw with dirt.

I actually don't read your posts or reply to you because you're on ignore, but I'm making an exception here because I have to take a stand.

You're writing nonsense again without any context and just because you throw a lot of words together and write a lot of lies doesn't make what you say true. You're lying and that's all it is. Proofs?

We have already discussed this extensively in the German area, but so that our English-speaking colleagues also have a short summary:

1) Hhampuz himself took a stand and explained that he considers me a capable member, otherwise I wouldn't be one of the last 10 people left in the Roobet campaign. There was only one week where I asked myself why my posts had not been rated and that was in 2021, since then there has been no complaint from me or from Hhampuz himself. Although Hhampuz's complaint in 2021 was very well justified.

Even though 1miau and I have discussed this several times and Hhampuz himself defended me, he keeps posting the same thing knowing that it's not true. I ask you, what is this if it is not manipulation and lies?

2) Do you know what's the funniest? Hhampuz's post is from 2021, after that there were no problems with any of my posts, but 1miau only came up with the idea that my posts were shitposts in 2022 (1 year later). Unfortunately, he only noticed this after we had very different political opinions. He was for oppression and dictatorship and I was for freedom. He ultimately shows this behavior in the forum and here too. He cannot and will never be able to accept other opinions.

It's also funny that I received a lot of merits from him for my "shitposts" until 2022. It's all just a lie and now he wants to portray himself as a victim of a witch hunt but it was he who bullied members and drove them out of the forum and what happened now? Someone fought back and he didn't expect that and everyone affected now speaks out and suddenly he is the victim?

As I said before: We got along well before Corona and therefore I wasn't a problem, but after I disagreed with him and became an "enemy", I was his target and had to be destroyed. But he couldn't do this because the majority in the german board was on my side. That's why there were unjustified neutral trusts in my profile but that didn't help him either. And he's still angry today that he wasn't able to destroy me, but now he has other problems. If he is excused here, he'll start doing the same shit again at some point.

For this reason I don't forgive him for the shit he did and I feel sorry for all the good members who were driven away by him.

[1miau]

To review everything, it will take some time to make a careful consideration. I’ve already removed many of the recent feedbacks from 2023 when there was room for improvement, to clear the recent cases.
Like d5000 has said, double entries will be narrowed down when justified and I’ve done that already for several cases. Some feedbacks were even removed entirely.
I’ve received neutral trusts as well and also of the same category, so this will be taken into consideration.

Neutral trusts are just normal comments, where the case is not enough to justify a negative one.
If in question, a feedback is neutral. That’s how I’m handling this.

You're writing nonsense again without any context and just because you throw a lot of words together and write a lot of lies doesn't make what you say true. You're lying and that's all it is. Proofs?

The context is all there.  

You are always trying to play the victim card to cover your wrongdoings. Here again, where you are withewashing your excessive shitposting, trolling and topic derailing. You are even proud of that, this is a disgusting behaviour.
Instead of trying to improve, you are doubling down on your shitpost spam and the only “argument” has been that you have been getting away with it so far because shitposters like you always try to push the boundaries for their excessive shitposting.
You can’t stand criticism of your already disproven propaganda, and you call that criticism “oppression” and it’s not on the table for you to even try to improve your posting quality, you can’t face criticism for that, you are incapable of that.

Your weekly post count is barely more than the requirement of posts, whatever the requirement is.
Someone could make a statistic in Meta about that and prove my claims.
You are just here to milk signature campaigns with your uninteresting shitposts. I’ve criticized that in the past and made aware of it. Shitposting should be condemned, not encouraged.
Shitposting is why the forum is going down, the more of it, the worse.

The big problem is here, that you are not willing to improve, you are now willing to admit that simple fact that you are here just for paid sig campaigns, where it's very important for you to put in the lowest effort as possible!
And you are even proud of it!
Your reply above is a perfect example how you are playing the victim card again, just because I dare to bring up the topic of improving posting quality.
Your neutral trust to point out that simple thing and make readers aware, is deserved. Deal with it.

And your attitude here shows very well, why it’s so dangerous to encourage shitposters like you!

I feel you guys are in the wrong and should pay out the prizes promised.

Regarding the giveaway: topic is already edited and prizes will be paid out to the winners as promised.


I’ll take some time to re-read all of the neutral feedbacks, and linked reference links. That’s why I’ve included these links, that it’s always possible to read up on each issue – neutral feedback.
To read up everything, I’ll take my time and come to a final conclusion on January 10, 2024.

To remove any of the remaining trusts it’ll be of very high relevance, if these entries are still valid. Because I believe even shitposting can be improved or – at least – the willingness to improve. If there’s willingness to improve, there’s already a (small) improvement and that’s the right way to go.
At least in the topic here, we will see the reaction and can directly compare if their behaviour still shows, if my neutral feedbacks are legitimate.
I’m doing my part to review the feedbacks and any new feedbacks could be reviewed any time as trust is public.

[digaran]

I haven't read the new posts yet, but I wanted to let you know, 1miau's buddy, just used the same reason to tag me.
Clearly this is not a wrongful use of trust feedback.

But here is my question to all the DT members, what should we do to stop people like them?

I know you could say, just ignore and move on, but where is this leading us, and what is considered a blatant abuse in your eyes?

I don't like to start a drama, but tell me, where do you stand and draw a line? I'm sure you couldn't ignore it if it was you, because we know how everyone feels when they get tagged.

I won't make a drama out of this, but wouldn't be better if someone uses the trust system like this for personal reasons, just 10 DT members act and exclude that person without having so much drama?

That would be a contribution on it's own to suffocate any abuse before it escalates further.

And of course I can't rival these people's "contribution" to have anyone side with me, and I know nobody on DT really supports me.

I truly feel like Jon snow now, the scene where they stabbed him one by one. And if nobody is willing to take action, well no resurrection for me, right?

Now while you discuss this case, I need to prepare for a new case. Why? Because they know nobody supports me, and if that is the case, I fear not, I have a God that is more powerful than any one, I have asked him to give me strength to fight my way through.

I'm not an orphan to corner in a dark aley and beat the hell out of me.  

[Unknown01]

You're writing nonsense again without any context and just because you throw a lot of words together and write a lot of lies doesn't make what you say true. You're lying and that's all it is. Proofs?

The context is all there.  

You are always trying to play the victim card to cover your wrongdoings. Here again, where you are withewashing your excessive shitposting, trolling and topic derailing. You are even proud of that, this is a disgusting behaviour.
Instead of trying to improve, you are doubling down on your shitpost spam and the only “argument” has been that you have been getting away with it so far because shitposters like you always try to push the boundaries for their excessive shitposting.
You can’t stand criticism of your already disproven propaganda, and you call that criticism “oppression” and it’s not on the table for you to even try to improve your posting quality, you can’t face criticism for that, you are incapable of that.

I don't really want to repeat myself, but I'll write everything we've already discussed again so that the English community can form its own opinion:

You claim that everything you write has a context:

I am not a person who places myself anywhere in the role of victim and I certainly don't need anything like that from you, you also believe that you are God. Where have I put myself in the role of a victim? Either you're fantasizing or, as I said before, you're simply making accusations without context and just throwing them out there so that other people will believe your lies.

Shitposting: Yes, in your opinion, 90% of the german board are Shitposter, because 9 out of 10 don't represent your opinion, so we don't need to discuss that, but this is just about your opinion, it's not a fact. Until you marked me as an enemy, my shitposts were worth merits. I didn't count but there must have been 50 to 100 of you.

Trolling and topic derailing: Where have I ever trolled? Where have I written anything off topic? I'm looking forward for your proof, because these are points that have nothing to do with opinion. Another lie on your part, more like me you are actually a troll in the German section.

What criticism? Criticism is expressed objectively and professionally; a debate involves different opinions and scientific findings. Incidentally, almost all of the scientific findings I listed at the time on the subject of corona have subsequently been confirmed. In contrast, your alleged findings were largely wrong. You didn't criticize, you just ranted and insulted and no, I'm not putting myself in the role of victim here, I'm just not interested in talking to someone who has no level and no decency. That's why you ended up on ignore, and not just with me, but with many others. I have accepted criticism from others who were able to formulate it objectively, the best example being my pyramid quotes. You insulted and scolded, do you seriously believe that I take you seriously when you come with such behavior? As soon as the other colleagues politely and nicely pointed out my mistake, I made an effort to correct it.

Once again you lied by saying that I said that I don't care about the forum rules. You write things out of context, when I say I'm not interested in your rules you write that I'm not interested in the forum rules. For you, 1+1 = 5

Your weekly post count is barely more than the requirement of posts, whatever the requirement is.
Someone could make a statistic in Meta about that and prove my claims.
You are just here to milk signature campaigns with your uninteresting shitposts. I’ve criticized that in the past and made aware of it. Shitposting should be condemned, not encouraged.
Shitposting is why the forum is going down, the more of it, the worse.

And once again you prove that you are living far from reality.

1) I signed up to this forum and didn't even know what signature campaigns were over a year after I signed up and still posted normally. So no: I'm not here for signature campaigns - that's a big lie from you.

2) My weekly post count is usually close to the requested post count, but there have been many weeks where I haven't posted, so if I'm only here for the signature campaign as you claim, why would I not post for so many weeks?

3) Shitposts: I'm now in my current campaign for how long? Half an eternity and the way you write I should have been kicked out after a few weeks, but I'm not and no that has nothing to do with getting through or are you insinuating that my campaign manager is stupid or corrupt? As always, all members who disagree with you are shitposters. For you my posts may be uninteresting or shitposts (only because we have different opinions) but not for others and that does not entitle you to insult me or write me a neutral trust.


You are largely the reason for the departure of members in the german local. The other few percent are people who generally have no interest or no time or who are looking elsewhere because of the old forum software, but in the last few years you have ensured that many members who were in the forum several years before you were among the oldest members in the German area, left the forum because of you.

The big problem is here, that you are not willing to improve, you are now willing to admit that simple fact that you are here just for paid sig campaigns, where it's very important for you to put in the lowest effort as possible!
And you are even proud of it!
Your reply above is a perfect example how you are playing the victim card again, just because I dare to bring up the topic of improving posting quality.
Your neutral trust to point out that simple thing and make readers aware, is deserved. Deal with it.

And your attitude here shows very well, why it’s so dangerous to encourage shitposters like you!

And once again lots of words and characters but no content. You write so pointlessly and repeat yourself all the time. Is shitposter actually your favorite word? I read shitposters, shitposters, shitposters all the time... Just repeating words, come up with something new.


You have received a topic in the meta area from a well-known person who is not from the German area. You are the problem here but you are trying to distract again: the others should always be the problem. If it's not clear to you, I don't have a meta entry because I bully other people and try to abuse power?

For you, all the members who have appeared here are shitposters, forget all the members, now even the moderator has to criticize you publicly. You're just a clown

I don't need to write more and respond to your future posts, you'll just repeat yourself again and write: shitposter, troll, signature campaign, ...

Do you know what's a real shame? You were actually a really nice guy until Corona came and everyone in the forum (including me) liked you. You have ruined your place here so much and this for nothing. The old 1miau from 2020 would have criticized your current now.

[digaran]

conclusion

What's that? I think the one thing you have failed miserably to explain is your negative trust, not only you haven't changed but now I'm %100 sure no one can change not without any force from outside.

You write a wall with total nonsense excuses and yet fail to explain your reason so that people can understand you better.

@1miau, what prompted you to give me negative feedback, and why do you think I need several of them for the same imaginary crime?   Go ahead enlighten us.

[1miau]

I am not a person who places myself anywhere in the role of victim and I certainly don't need anything like that from you, you also believe that you are God. Where have I put myself in the role of a victim? Either you're fantasizing or, as I said before, you're simply making accusations without context and just throwing them out there so that other people will believe your lies.

Playing the victim card is core part of your strategy. Should someone dare to criticize your lies, your disproven propaganda you excuses about your uninteresting low quality one-liners, you've repeatedly doubled down on your misbehaviour, instead of admitting your wrongdoing. That's also part of my neutral trust feedback on your account:

You said, you don't care, don’t need to follow the rules and you threw defamations around. You are even proud of your bullshit. Just look at your bullshit posts, where you pyramid-quoted my entire post, despite the whole topic was about avoiding such simple mistakes: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5392188.msg59672279#msg59672279
You pyramid-quoted my post on purpose, just to show me that you don't care about the rules, what a childish behaviour to show your unwillingness to improve! 

And thanks for pointing out in your rant above again that my neutral trust is well justified because you have learned nothing!

Trolling and topic derailing: Where have I ever trolled?

Hmmm, let's check the case I've just mentioned above about that pyramid quote.

I'm looking forward for your proof, because these are points that have nothing to do with opinion. Another lie on your part, more like me you are actually a troll in the German section.

Who's lying here, you shitposting troll?!
Are you capable of checking your post back then, where you got the neutral trust for? 
It's in the reference link! That's why these trusts are on your profile to make readers aware of that!

I don't need to write more and respond to your future posts
...
You're just a clown

These announcements are always coming from you and still, you keep coming back, denying any of your past abuses, which are publicly available! 

Looks like you are the clown here...

@1miau, what prompted you to give me negative feedback, and why do you think I need several of them for the same imaginary crime?   Go ahead enlighten us.

You should get one additional negative trust entry per week in my opinion due to your repeated abusive trolling, derailing the Reputation board with your insane accusations and anti-DT defamations considering your latest trolling attempts!

Yes, I'm willing to review my feedbacks but you are not willing to stop your malicious behaviour.
You are even escalating it and that's why all of your trusts are well deserved!

[Unknown01]

I am not a person who places myself anywhere in the role of victim and I certainly don't need anything like that from you, you also believe that you are God. Where have I put myself in the role of a victim? Either you're fantasizing or, as I said before, you're simply making accusations without context and just throwing them out there so that other people will believe your lies.

Playing the victim card is core part of your strategy. Should someone dare to criticize your lies, your disproven propaganda you excuses about your uninteresting low quality one-liners, you've repeatedly doubled down on your misbehaviour, instead of admitting your wrongdoing. That's also part of my neutral trust feedback on your account:

Isn't it too stupid for you to write the same thing over and over again? I'm starting to think you're trying to be a clown or maybe a troll? I won't answer that anymore.

You said, you don't care, don’t need to follow the rules and you threw defamations around. You are even proud of your bullshit. Just look at your bullshit posts, where you pyramid-quoted my entire post, despite the whole topic was about avoiding such simple mistakes: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5392188.msg59672279#msg59672279
You pyramid-quoted my post on purpose, just to show me that you don't care about the rules, what a childish behaviour to show your unwillingness to improve!  

Why do you lie so much? Quote 1:1 the place where I supposedly said that I don´t care about the forum rules and translate it correctly into English and if you can't do that then you're obviously lying and a big lier.

And thanks for pointing out in your rant above again that my neutral trust is well justified because you have learned nothing!

Trolling and topic derailing: Where have I ever trolled?

Hmmm, let's check the case I've just mentioned above about that pyramid quote.

Where am I trolling in the post?

I'm looking forward for your proof, because these are points that have nothing to do with opinion. Another lie on your part, more like me you are actually a troll in the German section.

Who's lying here, you shitposting troll?!
Are you capable of checking your post back then, where you got the neutral trust for?  
It's in the reference link! That's why these trusts are on your profile to make readers aware of that!

Who lies?

Your reference link is not a troll post from me. The post only contains a pyramid quote, although in the post I clearly state my position on the pyramid quote and why I have adopted the quote in its entirety. I wasn't trolling, you're actually trolling now, but I prefer the term liar for you. I think it's nice that everyone here can clearly see how you always behave. As written above, you lie all the time.


And to clearly answer your question above:
So you lie all the time.

[1miau]

Where am I trolling in the post?

You were trolling by pyramid-quoting my entire post, while my post is exactly about improving posting quality...  
You are proud of your rule violation, you are not showing any regret over that childish behaviour!

The post only contains a pyramid quote,

Only "a" pyramid quote, YES a very big one!  
Maybe it's time for you to realize to remove the pyramid quote?

I don't need to write more and respond to your future posts

No, but you just did that after announcing the opposite thing, that you wouldn't respond anymore.  
So, stop calling me clown, you are the clown here!

[Timelord2067]

Well, we have the peanuts, popped corn, clowns and DT Trolls.. (some circus - right?)

Every post 1miau makes reaffirms that contention.

[Unknown01]

-snip-

You said, you don't care, don’t need to follow the rules and you threw defamations around. You are even proud of your bullshit. Just look at your bullshit posts, where you pyramid-quoted my entire post, despite the whole topic was about avoiding such simple mistakes: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5392188.msg59672279#msg59672279
You pyramid-quoted my post on purpose, just to show me that you don't care about the rules, what a childish behaviour to show your unwillingness to improve!  

Why do you lie so much? Quote 1:1 the place where I supposedly said that I don´t care about the forum rules and translate it correctly into English and if you can't do that then you're obviously lying and a big lier.

Where is your quote of what I said? Why are you ignoring the most important point? You've also answered the other questions, so people here should be able to make up their own minds about which of us is lying, right?
You are making a big accusation against me, quote my statement where I say that I don't care about the forum rules.

[1miau]

Why do you lie so much? Quote 1:1 the place where I supposedly said that I don´t care about the forum rules and translate it correctly into English and if you can't do that then you're obviously lying and a big lier.

Where is your quote of what I said? Why are you ignoring the most important point? You've also answered the other questions, so people here should be able to make up their own minds about which of us is lying, right?
You are making a big accusation against me, quote my statement where I say that I don't care about the forum rules.

Your whole post is about belittling my well-meant advice that we need to follow the rules to avoid pyramid quoting. You are even lying there, once again:

Meine Zitierpolitik geht dich nichts an und ich zitiere wie es die Richtlinien verlangen

My citation policy is none of your business, and I quote as required by the guidelines

(translated)
Archived: https://archive.is/DNO3I#selection-7255.0-7255.88
Fact is: your pyramid quote is NOT following the guidelines! Not at all!


Your whole post is that you give a shit about this advice! Otherwise, you would have followed the rules and avoided that pyramid quote!

Your whole post is about how proud you are that you are having the “balls” to write your bullshit rant.

Your whole post is about how you are unwilling to improve, you are even proud of it!

Thanks for showing today, that you have learned exactly NOTHING since then, that you are not even willing to admit your childish behaviour back then!

[Unknown01]

-Attempted excuses-

You said, you don't care, don’t need to follow the rules and you threw defamations around. You are even proud of your bullshit.

Since I've never said or implied anything like that and you can't quote anything I've said, I'll leave the final word to my colleagues here as to whether you're lying and knowingly make false accusations against me or not. I have provided enough evidence (& 1miau also that I never said it)

[1miau]

Since I've never said or implied anything like that and you can't quote anything I've said, I'll leave the final word to my colleagues here as to whether you're lying and knowingly make false accusations against me or not. I have provided enough evidence (& 1miau also that I never said it)

Have you read your entire post or are you not capable to remember?
Here’s how this is going on:

Jeder darf selbst entscheiden wie er seine Posts verfasst und wie er zitiert

Everyone is allowed to decide for themselves how to write their posts and how to cite

(translated)
Archived: https://archive.is/DNO3I#selection-7255.454-7255.530

I think, there’s no comment needed anymore that your rant was completely insane and you aren’t even showing today any regret about the abuse back then.
There are guidelines and we need to respect them.
Pyramid quoting should be avoided and it’s up to you to correct that mistake!

I don't need to write more and respond to your future posts

Interesting how you are (not) following your own announcements. First, you say you won’t respond and after that, we get 4 (!) new replies from you!
And you are calling me a clown? 

[digaran]

@1miau, what prompted you to give me negative feedback, and why do you think I need several of them for the same imaginary crime?   Go ahead enlighten us.

You should get one additional negative trust entry per week in my opinion due to your repeated abusive trolling, derailing the Reputation board with your insane accusations and anti-DT defamations considering your latest trolling attempts!

Yes, I'm willing to review my feedbacks but you are not willing to stop your malicious behaviour.
You are even escalating it and that's why all of your trusts are well deserved!

Well, well, where should I place all of your trolling quotes? LOL, my malicious behaviour is exactly what I'm asking you to show.  But if you are an imbecile and can't understand that, you should be banned for pointless derailing and not answering a simple question, whether I "deserve" it or not is out of the equation, show me an evidence before 18th? of October when you first tagged me, not anything after the fact.
@Tl which one am I? Answer it by next commercial break.😂
I have a feeling there is a group of people outside the door, waiting for a slight slip from me, to have their orgy by coming here and have at it.🤣
@1miau, listen, the both partitioned lines above are considered "humor/jokes", I'm telling you this, because on earth humans do that to prevent going insane, you should do that sometimes while you are off DT.

Nobody wants you to dictate your moronic opinions on how this forum should be moderated.

[Timelord2067]

And you are calling me a clown

If he doesn't I will.


Hey 1miau!

You're a clown.

Meep meep!

[Bitcoin SV]

I am sorry. Is this the thread where reputation is discussed? Then I'm in right place

I read your argument. But I can't choose which side to take

I have one distrust and one flag-supporting against me from 1miau





And

I have two flag-supporting against me from mikeywith





I'm now thinking which side to take. Help me figure out which side to take? Because I want to choose only one side

[digaran]

I'm now thinking which side to take. Help me figure out which side to take? Because I want to choose only one side

You can choose the right side by stop luring people into buying a centralized coin, then resent your claim of being satoshi, then come here, I promise to reserve a spot in a sig campaign for you, it's time to earn honestly.

I would do the same if satoshi himself had a signature saying it's time to buy Bitcoin.

Even if you are a criminal you still deserve due process, but it will cost you. Since I'm a disgraced lawyer with so many tags, I can work for you for a fee of $199, it was 200 but now you get a discount. No bsv accepted.
Disclaimer, I'm not claiming to be an actual lawyer, or have the ability to win a case, but who cares, he is used to such people, right? 🤣
Edit, now I get it why he was emphasizing on being a good troll against bitcoin sv, 1miau thought if he does what everybody else do and like, it will make him look legit, well bsv, you have contributed to so many abuses of miau, if weren't here, his victims could be free for the past 2-3 years. Somehow bashing you acts as a ladder for weasels to climb on top places to exploit.  But my problem with you is personal.🤨

[mole0815]

[~snip]

If you ask me, this would be a good place to read up on it:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5474713.msg63212258#msg63212258

Sorry for the short answer but I'm only online on mobile today.

[Timelord2067]

Flag against Bitcoin SV supported.

[MinoRaiola]

I'm now thinking which side to take. Help me figure out which side to take? Because I want to choose only one side

Read how wrong he acted here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5474713.msg63204409#msg63204409

1miau: his character has probably only changed for 2 days and he is now back in his old role.

Well, we have the peanuts, popped corn, clowns and DT Trolls.. (some circus - right?)

Every post 1miau makes reaffirms that contention.

He wants to defend himself, we all do that, even as children. But has realized that he cannot correct all his attacks. A small part of his actions have been corrected, maybe it is just a show to keep us quiet. I will continue to watch this very active, the attacks continue, we can all read it.

1miau
If it goes on like this, i will have to inform the german board of the forum to protect all other. You cant win this, we have all seen what you doing wrong.

Now please stop it - take a peace whistle and smoke it with everyone, why you dont do that? You cant be so stupid - stop it.

I think this can be over quickly, no one really wants to live in the past. It is written - and now write every word to make the future more positive. If you dont do that, then you lose with every word you post here.

[Bitcoin SV]

Flag against Bitcoin SV supported.

Wow! Who is a clown now? Your post is offtop! Did you know that?

Somebody tag this clown Timelord2067 as offtoper, flooder, troll, trust abuser and SXC scammer
I think that Timelord2067 should be excluded from DT because of trust-abusing

I repeat my question: Which of these two sides (1miau and mikeywith) is bad guy and which is good guy? Tell me about them in your own words, don’t give me your links

[digaran]

Flag against Bitcoin SV supported.

Wow! Who is a clown now? Your post is offtop

Somebody tag this clown Timelord2067 as offtoper, flooder, troll & trust abuser
I think that Timelord2067 should be excluded from DT because of trust-abusing

I repeat my question: Which of these two sides (1miau and mikeywith) is bad guy and which is good guy? Tell me about them in your own words, don’t give me your links

Don't worry DT members already castrated this retired old man, we just have to wait for him to move on to his eternal castle of fire, in fact he started all of this back in 2018 by quoting and archiving posts.
1miau is a dictator. We want to overthrow him and expose his supporters for siding with him silently.

[Timelord2067]

See how the scammers offer nothing but FUD and ridicule as opposed to facts or proof when lashing out at others.

Tilda against the two previous posters due to their trust feedback abuses.

[Bitcoin SV]

See how the scammers offer nothing but FUD and ridicule as opposed to facts or proof when lashing out at others.

What FUD? I haven't decided anything yet. I'm still thinking which side to take.

But you know, I think I've found a solution. I have a question for both:

question to 1miau: do you consider Timelord2067 as a SXC scammer?
question to mikeywith: do you consider Timelord2067 as a SXC scammer?

Don't worry DT members already castrated this retired old man, we just have to wait for him to move on to his eternal castle of fire, in fact he started all of this back in 2018 by quoting and archiving posts.

I have picture of that old fart Timelord2067. Very ugly goggle-eyed toad. I heard that the some british can sometimes be very ugly, but I didn’t expect it to be so

[BabyBandit]

How does the forum works & how should the forum work according to whom? Satoshi? Have you speak with him in person how the forum should work 2023? Or is it just a fantasy you and your friends have created?
And when someone opposes you and your friends way of using the forum, why cant you just accept it and do move on with your life's? I don't try to create anything, it's a serious question.
How should this forum works and who have the right to make those rules today? Why cant just people use in in the way it fits their day and we all be happy with that without using drama and feedback and hate against each other?
Think about this for a bit.... you own this forum as little as a newbie register next week. Everyone is only guests here, even you. All this is a fantasy, one day this website will shut down, so enjoy your time here instead of arguing how people should use the forum. Be positive instead of negative, I promise you, you will have so much more fun.  

LOL what a moronic rant... it's not "my way of using the forum". There are objective facts how e.g. trust system or merit works, and those things didn't even exist when satoshi was still around. Nowadays dimwits like you and TL like to make shit up as if said shit has the same weight as facts. It doesn't. Fucking participation trophy generation.

You get so angry so you cant even answer a single question, calm down. You can't imitate me on the internet so just stop with your childish game "Look at me I am so angry and dangerous".
You probably just a child that never did anything in your life and that's why you a act like a punk here to other users with your name calling. Sad for you cant pure water on me, I am on another level then you ever will be on.
Come on now, do the only thing you are capable of, give me another angry feedback. "LOL".


And about 1maui I just gonna say one thing, then I am out from this online-drama nonsense, it's not up to me to judge who should be on the dDT.
"It's also possible that your knowledge of the trust system is so poor that you don't understand it, but the facts are quite simple"

[Timelord2067]

Craig wanna be can't even spell 😜

[Bitcoin SV]

I am still waiting answers to my questions. Stop making FUD and answer to my questions

😜

Sexcoin is scam. Timelord2067 is a former developer of Sexcoin. Hey toad, find syntax errors in these phrases

P.S: Timelord2067 - stop making an offtopic. Or Thermos will ban you

[1miau]

Now please stop it - take a peace whistle and smoke it with everyone, why you dont do that? You cant be so stupid - stop it.

What are you trying to achieve by your justifications of your past abuses, your defamations, name-calling and threats against me to drive me into a bad peace deal?
First and very important this: normally, you wouldn't be here because you are a Plagiarizer! 3 times!
This is crystal clear abuse and you should very, VERY happy that your acccount is not banned yet and you can earn from signature campaigns.
I haven't seen any apology for that, just silly excuses and that comes on top of your plagiarism offense!  

I'm well allowed to point out your plagiarism offense!
Of course, I'm ready to find a solution, where we can get along in our German section.

But I'm ready if both of us could find a solution, where everyone concedes a bit, to find a solution how we can get along in the German section with the other candidates.
I'm well allowed to criticize any disgusting justifications of pro-war bullshit. That's free speech.
I'm well allowed for any criticism. If you don't like any of my future criticism, feel free to post it here and the drama will be back on the table. That's another concession I'm willing to make.
I've already conceded that I've removed many of my past neutral feedbacks.
I'm willing to review further until Januaray 10, 2024 but that mainly depends on how each of you will act here.
Insisting on your massive wrongdoing will just show the community, who you really are.
I've already conceded massive ground.
I'm willing to find a constructive solution for our German section as well.
We could make a temporary peace deal, show how it goes and extend it, when both of us didn't break any terms.


@digaran
Your threat in the other topic is noted and archived for reference:

but you and your love buddies are about to be exterminated

https://archive.is/oyEcu#selection-5287.65-5287.123
Keep making such threats and you'll have another trust on your account soon.  
And don't act surprised after it, you are the reason why your tags keep piling up.

[digaran]

Now please stop it - take a peace whistle and smoke it with everyone, why you dont do that? You cant be so stupid - stop it.

What are you trying to achieve by your justifications of your past abuses, your defamations, name-calling and threats against me to drive me into a bad peace deal?
First and very important this: normally, you wouldn't be here because you are a Plagiarizer! 3 times!
This is crystal clear abuse and you should very, VERY happy that your acccount is not banned yet and you can earn from signature campaigns.
I haven't seen any apology for that, just silly excuses and that comes on top of your plagiarism offense!  

I'm well allowed to point out your plagiarism offense!
Of course, I'm ready to find a solution, where we can get along in our German section.

But I'm ready if both of us could find a solution, where everyone concedes a bit, to find a solution how we can get along in the German section with the other candidates.
I'm well allowed to criticize any disgusting justifications of pro-war bullshit. That's free speech.
I'm well allowed for any criticism. If you don't like any of my future criticism, feel free to post it here and the drama will be back on the table. That's another concession I'm willing to make.
I've already conceded that I've removed many of my past neutral feedbacks.
I'm willing to review further until Januaray 10, 2024 but that mainly depends on how each of you will act here.
Insisting on your massive wrongdoing will just show the community, who you really are.
I've already conceded massive ground.
I'm willing to find a constructive solution for our German section as well.
We could make a temporary peace deal, show how it goes and extend it, when both of us didn't break any terms.


@digaran
Your threat in the other topic is noted and archived for reference:

but you and your love buddies are about to be exterminated

https://archive.is/oyEcu#selection-5287.65-5287.123
Keep making such threats and you'll have another trust on your account soon.  
And don't act surprised after it, you are the reason why your tags keep piling up.

why should they keep piling up? Because you say so? I don't know if you are not a blood sucking leech then what you are, while you are currently holding power over me and keep using your scare tactics.
Your DT peers still want to keep you on? After harassing so many people, dictating to them as if you own this place.

Bsv, 1miau is bad, catch.😂

[mikeywith]

I'm willing to find a constructive solution for our German section

The solution is simple, stop acting like the German board police, because you are not, learn to accept that people have the right to disagree with you, agree to disagree and do not use the trust system against your fellow German members.

Also, it is not within your roles or rights to enforce forum rules, only the mods can decide what "shit posts" are to be deleted, all you can do is report them , and if they are still there, just live with the fact that the mods simply do not agree with your judgment, why is that so difficult?

[1miau]

I'm willing to find a constructive solution for our German section

The solution is simple, stop acting like the German board police, because you are not, learn to accept that people have the right to disagree with you, agree to disagree and do not use the trust system against your fellow German members.

You are not in any position to dictate me what to do. Your demand is extremely ridiculous considering your limited knowledge about Germany's past and current ongoings as described my the 2nd post. It's very dangerous to enable such fascist apologia.

Also, it is not within your roles or rights to enforce forum rules, only the mods can decide what "shit posts" are to be deleted, all you can do is report them , and if they are still there, just live with the fact that the mods simply do not agree with your judgment, why is that so difficult?

I've outlined my position here already, multiple times and DT can read up on this one. I've made massive concessions and that's my concession for a test trial, let's say until early January if it's possible to get along in the German section. If there is anything happening, someone is considering an "abuse", he'll be able to report this here, presenting the rough evidence of course.
But if these are really childish cases that'll be a confirmation to the community, that I'm not the issue.

[MinoRaiola]

@1miau: I dont care about your deadlines, you noticed that several times, you do the right thing or the wrong thing, than we dont handle this in a temporary period. And I tell you what you have to deal with me:
* i will write positive things for other users if i think it is the right time.
* you can call my posts shit, than report them, the mods will decide. But I made 4240 posts and 6 of them were deleted, in percent that is 0.14%, so my stats better than yours according bpip, you are at 0.20%.

And now Im glad that you finally understood that you are wrong. I will watch it and I am ready to forget your behavior, and in future please think about the community and not only about your DT ranking. Grab my peace whistle.

[1miau]

And now Im glad that you finally understood that you are wrong. I will watch it and I am ready to forget your behavior, and in future please think about the community and not only about your DT ranking. Grab my peace whistle.

We can already agree to disagree on this one, that you are saying again that I would be wrong, just because I simply did the right thing to call out your repeated and obvious abuse, as it's completely usual and necessary for DT.
So, let's start to agree to disagree here.

@1miau: I dont care about your deadlines

Well, test trials are always useful, so I've decided to suggest one but I'm fine without it as well.

Grab my peace whistle.

Let's try it that way.

[Unknown01]

I'm willing to find a constructive solution for our German section

The solution is simple, stop acting like the German board police, because you are not, learn to accept that people have the right to disagree with you, agree to disagree and do not use the trust system against your fellow German members.

Also, it is not within your roles or rights to enforce forum rules, only the mods can decide what "shit posts" are to be deleted, all you can do is report them , and if they are still there, just live with the fact that the mods simply do not agree with your judgment, why is that so difficult?

I have to express my greatest thanks to you, you speak from the hearts of me and many others and hopefully through your commitment the whole thing will come to an end and peace will then return to our german local board! 

[yahoo62278]

I'm willing to find a constructive solution for our German section

The solution is simple, stop acting like the German board police, because you are not, learn to accept that people have the right to disagree with you, agree to disagree and do not use the trust system against your fellow German members.

Also, it is not within your roles or rights to enforce forum rules, only the mods can decide what "shit posts" are to be deleted, all you can do is report them , and if they are still there, just live with the fact that the mods simply do not agree with your judgment, why is that so difficult?

I have to express my greatest thanks to you, you speak from the hearts of me and many others and hopefully through your commitment the whole thing will come to an end and peace will then return to our german local board! 

Peace only happens if all parties stay civil. If you poke the bear then expect to be poked back.

[mikeywith]

Peace only happens if all parties stay civil.

Essentially; peace is the end of the war.

We make war that we may live in peace

Aristotle: an Ancient Greek philosopher and polymath

In fact, many philosophers believe that war is the road to peace and that peace can't exist without a war, and that makes a lot of sense because without war -- peace means nothing, just like death means nothing without life.

Of course, war doesn't have to be  "a state of armed conflict", it could be "an active hostility or contention".

Hopefully, the end result of this war would be long-term peace. We, the Bitcoin community have a more important war to fight against monetary hegemony, the more peace we have among us -- the better we can fight it.

[Timelord2067]

The only reason 1miau has one eye on the clock is due to the December DT lottery looming large in the horizon.

[digaran]

We, the Bitcoin community have a more important war to fight against monetary hegemony, the more peace we have among us -- the better we can fight it.

Lol, one time gmaxwell said something now I understand what it meant, he said something like "the whole community collectively holding their thing swinging", And I made a joke about it and said the community collectively wishes you good luck, it was about the court case with Csw.  Now that you mentioned "hegemony" I must laugh to your face and tell you, "are you serious"? Yes we can collectively go to war with our one sided garbage posts. I can feel their foundations shaking beneath our feet.

The only thing you can achieve here, is an undisturbed opportunity to participate in sig spam business by being a little submissive bias bitch.  Otherwise you will face tag them and bag them standards.

Your beloved small community circle can't even break an egg. Now we know what consensus means around here, holding one's position as hostage to force them into submission.  Just imagine you hadn't posted this thread, where would we be now?

Every system can work, problem is us, we can not work, there is only one truth, you either die fighting or become an slave. I have no plans to die, I'm building my nuke to see who dares to strike.

"So yeah, lets fight the monetary hegemony with our sig spam payments, who is with me? Lol"

[mole0815]

For me, bitcointalk stands for freedom of expression/speech.
It would be against it if we tolerate censoring different opinions.
Whether by feedback, trust, "report to moderator", subliminally wrapped up in other topics or addressed openly and directly.

THAT is the issue.

Different opinions and views are part and parcel of a discussion.
If you try to prevent that in any way whatsoever, that's not okay! That's the point!

I will be relieved if we can achieve this state (again)


Nestade was only mentioned in passing, but has cleaned up his history, whatever that means.
He deleted a lot of his posts (especially in the problematic threads) and his own threads on 11/25.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;threads;u=134226;sa=showPosts

1miau you two have a good relation so I hope this means only one step back and no loss of this member!


Basically, I'm pleased that a few topics have now been addressed and clarified. Cheers and I look forward to a good journey together

[digaran]

Thanks, mole0815 if the world were managed by the likes of you, we'd be having a much better place.
That Nestade fellow seems to be a interesting guy, I have never followed up any case based on grudges or even for personal vendetta, but since I'm voiceless, I will investigate further, to see the reason for their recent thread wipeouts. Maybe that will turn to my advantage.

[Bitcoin SV]

Nobody ever answered my questions. Why they are both evading my questions?
I was told that everyone here can find an answer their own question. I was told that this trust system is for transparency and discussion. I consider that any person who hides something and who doesn't answer questions is not worthy of being in DT

I repeat:

I am sorry. Is this the thread where reputation is discussed? Then I'm in right place

I read your argument. But I can't choose which side to take

I have one distrust and one flag-supporting against me from 1miau





And

I have two flag-supporting against me from mikeywith





I'm now thinking which side to take. Help me figure out which side to take? Because I want to choose only one side

[mole0815]

Thanks, mole0815 if the world were managed by the likes of you, we'd be having a much better place.
That Nestade fellow seems to be a interesting guy, I have never followed up any case based on grudges or even for personal vendetta, but since I'm voiceless, I will investigate further, to see the reason for their recent thread wipeouts. Maybe that will turn to my advantage.

Thank you for the compliment

digaran -> I actually wanted to remove (edit) the middle part of my last message (but I was too late) so that we don't bring up inappropriate new topics in the thread.
It doesn't belong here and I didn't want to cause any more unrest. So let's leave it at that and I'll be happy when we come to an end here.

Thank you guys!

[digaran]

Case closed, only for you, also I will lock my topic on him, and remove my tag, rest assured however I will not do the same for NF unless it's fine by you, then I will lock that as well.😉
Can someone change the channel, this bsv commercial break is boring.😂

[KaosanRoad]

er: Unknown01

Weil weißt du, wir kennen DT genau und können sehr gut einschätzen, welche Vergehen extrem verpönt sind.
Ihr habt massig verpönte Vergehen begangen, deren Vermeidung wir euch sogar per PM nahegelegt haben. Ihr habt euch drüber lustig gemacht und fröhlich weiter gegen DT-Standards gehandelt.
So einen Missbrauch und Kindergarten wird DT nicht dulden.
Wenn ihr keine Probleme haben wollt, hört doch einfach auf mit eurem Kindergarten, haltet euch an die DT-Standards, haltet euch an die Forumsregeln und hört auf, zu shitposten!

Ich werde deinen neuen Beitrag zusätzlich archivieren, damit wir bei Zeit etwas zu lachen haben.
Shitposten und den Mund so voll nehmen hat vor DT noch nie funktioniert!

Because you know, we know DT very well and can assess very well which offenses are extremely frowned upon.
You have committed a lot of frowned upon offenses, which we even told you to avoid via PM. You made fun of it and happily continued to act against DT standards.
DT will not tolerate such abuse and kindergarten.
If you don't want to have problems, just stop your kindergarten, stick to the DT standards, stick to the forum rules and stop shitposting!

I'll also archive your new post so we have something to laugh about when the time comes.
Shitposting and running your mouth like this never worked before DT!

Haha... WHAT did I read? anyone explain why this post speaks like DT have more power then CIA? ออกไปข้างนอกเพื่อดูแสงแดด


Big investigate is going on right now... You guys will be shocked about the truth..