Javier Milei just won the presidentiial election in Argentina

[famososMuertos]

Milei above all is a politician who is using the political formula classic , yeah the populism works, do not expect drastic changes, bitcoin was a part and not the whole of his political campaign, perhaps if he has time left in his mandate we can get an official reaction from his government for projects related to bitcoin.

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[uneng]

Regarding Milei's similarity to Bolsonaro, I strongly disagree he's "the same" kind of personality or views. Milei is a classic liberal/libertarian, and the rest of his ideology is strongly based on Anarchocapitalist views and the "no aggression principle", while Bolsonaro is a classic far-right nationalist who believes in State intervention (although his economic policy had also liberal elements). Milei has rejected nationalism, he even broke with a major taboo - he believes in the Malvinas/Falkland islands inhabitants' right to self determination.

Bolsonaro had the same liberal economical principles during the campaign. That was his proposal against the left wing state intervention. It wouldn't make sense if Bolsonaro had a pro-state speech, since it was the speech of his rivals. Moreover, he put the liberal economist Paulo Guedes on the respective government's sector once elected. However, nothing important has been implemented on that matter, because it's not choleric statements and empty jargons which decide anything in the country, but the judiciary, congressmen and businessmen lobbies.

Milei brought the chain-saw to illustrate what Bolsonaro promised in 2018: to reduce the size of the state, cutting worthless costs. In the end, it was just lies.

However, where I can agree is that Milei has connections with other "eccentric" right-wing or liberal leaders like Trump/Bolsonaro/Bukele, and he sometimes uses similar communication strategies. He has also some quite right-wing views like the belief that abortion has to be forbidden (he derives it from the "no aggression principle") and also about climate change, which he has denied in the past.

As we are in Bitcoin Discussion here, I link a article with some of Milei's quotes about Bitcoin. In short, he has stated Bitcoin is an "evolution" of money and that it should compete with other currencies.

Well, maybe you remember Trump was also a Bitcoin supporter back then in 2016, when he was a "threat" to the crooked mainstream. Once president, he totally turned against it, because in his view, BTC could be harmful to dollar currency.

It's easy to say such things when they aren't in power positions. The "ring of power" from Lord of The Rings is a great analogy for these situations.

[aesma]

Milei's party isn't the main one so it's difficult to know what of his propositions he will be able to pass.

The one I find most interesting is the one to "destroy" the central bank and dollarize the economy, other countries use a foreign currency but usually they're very small.

[darkangel11]

I'm trying to be unbiased here and I don't expect miracles, but would you rather have someone from the other side of the political spectrum? Someone like Legarde in Europe or Warren in the US?

It makes no sense to compare the president of the European Central Bank or a famous US investor with the president of a country because their roles in society are completely different. Regardless of Lagarde's attitudes towards Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general, in many countries of the European Union there are perhaps the most liberal laws when it comes to cryptocurrencies when it comes to taxes and the legality of using them.

As for WB, he is simply a 90-year-old man who has spent his whole life doing what he knows best, and this obsession of people that he should accept Bitcoin is really ridiculous and only exists for the reason that people want him to have a positive effect on the price BTC.

I used the head of the central bank to give you an alternative showing how some politicians are negative towards bitcoin. Legarde is influential and hates it. If you were an Argentinian, you wouldn't want someone like that to run the country, or your central bank. So, having a libertarian who likes bitcoin as president is good news. that's the whole point I was trying to make, not to compare what influence this or that person has.

I wasn't talking about Warren Buffett, but Elizabeth Warren. You must have heard the name before. She's one of the people who run the country along with Biden. Biden has no understanding of cryptocurrencies, but she does. Unfortunately, the wrong one.

[goldkingcoiner]

...

Libertarian candidate Javier Milei has just won as the next president of Argentina.  He apparently likes BTC.  This is good news for us in Bitcoinland, but also good for Argentina (assuming he governs as he said he would).

More details:  https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/19/world/argentina-vote-milei-massa-nov-19/index.html

Funny how CNN does not mention that...

ZH link:  https://www.zerohedge.com/political/preview-argentinas-consequential-election-sunday

I do not know much about him, all I know is that he is a populist. Whether he can prove himself to be a competent politician is still the question which needs to be answered. And the answer to that is going to be really important, because he will have a huge voice in the Bitcoin community. Anything negative will affect the drive of Bitcoin adoption. In other words, we really need this to not be like El Salvador. Remember that? Huge PR failure.

[Fundamentals Of]

It's going to be a very difficult challenge for him to actually do what he mentioned he would should he become president of Argentina. But I think he can and will do it thanks largely to those who are truly supporting his crusade.

But I think this isn't really eradicating fiat in Argentina let alone declaring Bitcoin as the replacement. I think he can eradicate the central bank by deciding to stop using the Argentine peso and adopt the US dollar instead. Bitcoin could become what it became in the case of El Salvador, an alternate legal tender.

[Lucius]

I used the head of the central bank to give you an alternative showing how some politicians are negative towards bitcoin. Legarde is influential and hates it. If you were an Argentinian, you wouldn't want someone like that to run the country, or your central bank. So, having a libertarian who likes bitcoin as president is good news. that's the whole point I was trying to make, not to compare what influence this or that person has.

It's not that what you're saying doesn't make sense, but even if the new president has a positive opinion about Bitcoin (or at least he did before), that doesn't guarantee that he'll change anything about it now that he's in power. At one point I realized that Milei actually reminds me a little of Bankman who talked a lot and made promises, but then overnight he burned everything he built.

As for Lagarde, of course she has negative views on Bitcoin, although her focus is much more on stablecoins, which she considers to be the real competition to the euro and one day the digital euro. It is interesting that her son actually has the complete opposite opinion and allegedly invests in cryptocurrencies.

I wasn't talking about Warren Buffett, but Elizabeth Warren. You must have heard the name before. She's one of the people who run the country along with Biden. Biden has no understanding of cryptocurrencies, but she does. Unfortunately, the wrong one.

Of course I had heard of her, but somehow I went in the direction of Oracle Of Omaha. However, no matter how you look at it, whether it's about the EU or the US and all the negative attitudes of various politicians and officials, these are parts of the world where Bitcoin has a very strong foothold, whether it's about the number of people who invest in it, or the companies that are connected with trading and investing in the same.

A man who is supposedly pro-Bitcoin in a country where he doesn't actually have the power to make key decisions can hardly change anything in this regard, even if he really wants to.

[TopTort777]

At one point I realized that Milei actually reminds me a little of Bankman who talked a lot and made promises, but then overnight he burned everything he built.

Imho only his messy hairstyle could remind you SBF.

But with president like this: https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1726782856511315995 + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAmGhRRpfjo we can expect everything On one thing I am happy for people Argentina, because their president is so alive, so real. On the other hand his future political decisions warries me

Perhaps his future weird decision might be connected with Bitcoin, but I doubt that Argentina would win anything from that. Of course they will get attention, but nothing much more. Milei will play on emotions, like any other politician.

[doomloop]

We should not get too excited about what a central government can do for Bitcoin. They are generally geared towards profits and how to boost of their national currency or enrich their own pockets. Whatever steps they take in the process is a means to an end. Liberal governments are good for bitcoins growth but it has gotten this far without much of that.

It also remains to be seen what policies he effects while in office. I will personally be pleased if he at least does not effect any anti Bitcoin policy even if he does nothing in favor of it.

Yes. It's better to stay low-key because we still don't know what other things can happen. Aside from the positivity, there might also be negativity. We don't want to disappoint our selves with it. Like you said, they can use Bitcoin mostly for their personal gains but I think this is also better than if they ban BTC.

I mean, people on that country can also use BTC. It'll still grow and we can also feel its effect. Indeed that even without their involvement, BTC can still grow but they are already there, so what can we do? This is another thing that BTC adoption can do. It makes many people and government curious, that they end up trying it and see if they can truly benefit from it. About the anti-BTC policy, I think it's fine if they can interfere with it as that could improve BTC better.

[darxiaomi]

Well, the other Argentinian reporting here, as my compatriot d5000 said, I think that the hype about putting BTC in Argentina is more outside than inside Argentina, plus Milei never spoke openly about that specifically, if about wanting to dollarize the economy and make it disappear the Argentine peso.


To add something, I see many that compare with El Salvador, and how to say it..... El Salvador is tiny, it does not exist next to the size and economy of Argentina, not to mention its global and regional importance.

Another thing I have read in many places is that he is the elected president with the most votes and that that gives him a lot of power and so on, well, this is not true at all, he did get a lot of votes and it is the largest amount but it was in the second round, in the In the first round he obtained only 30% and "lost" against the ruling party, which obtained 36% of the votes, and the third place was obtained by the one representing former president Macri with 23%.

So what I mean by this is that he does not have all the support that they say he has, he is going to have a minority in both chambers of deputies and senators, and he is going to need a lot of help from Macri's supporters (which he can do that he has to moderate himself a lot), Argentina is also a federal country, although it does not reach the extreme of the United States, the governors are important, and MIlei has...... 0 governors.

The economic situation is impossible to explain to someone who does not live in Argentina, Argentina lives in crisis by the standards of the world, which is true, but if you are in the streets you will not see something like that, but the numbers of Macroeconomics..... man are very very bad. What happens is that Argentina constantly produces a lot of wealth, so we can always end up leaving and repeating the cycle.

To give an example, Argentina has a huge debt with the IMF for almost 50,000 million, the net liquid reserves of the central bank are -15,000 million dollars and there is also a debt for a swap with China. With this numers you are gonna be in BIG troubles.

This is Milei's main problem, she has to try to correct this quickly and without people suffering much, her room for maneuver is very very thin, one mistake and it will go out the window, and the romance will end, remember that only its hard core is 30% and the majority are young, if you disappoint them everything can fall apart very quickly.

[pinggoki]

~

Argentina is a presidential republic so yes they have senators

bitcoin can help in improving one’s economic status but as a whole bitcoin can help open up transactions from country to country in a more convenient and less hassle way this might also be a good news for the btc community as Argentina has one of the largest population in south america just behind Colombia and Brazil

for now he plans on utilizing the usd as their currency and still no plans regarding btc time can only tell if he makes true to his promises

I guess so, I know that bitcoin is really helping bridge people's finances so I am definitely all for it that they are supporting if they do support it. Also, I have to point out that we also have to worry about if the president has a lot of allies in the senate because that way, if he has something that he wants be a policy then it's not going to meet a lot of resistance. That utilization of USD as a currency is a good move for the country, their record breaking inflation is a big problem.

[Ale88]

Political pundits said Javier Milei is the Argentine version of Donald Trump and he has come up with various radical policies which include the dollarization of the country, cutting government spending through the reduction of ministries from 18 to 8 and he usually speaks well about Bitcoin. Argentina has an economy that is battered by inflation and other challenges which means that Javier Milei has a lot of work to do to bring back the nation to its past glory.

I have no idea what this guy will actually do but at least it's a change compared to the past presidents that, at the end, they were all the same, and we all saw how Argentina's economy kept getting worse and worse over the years. Maybe he'll be even worse, maybe not, but as I said it's nice to see a new face, I can't stand when people keep voting for the same people/parties even though they keep ruining the country.

[Lucius]

~snip~
Another thing I have read in many places is that he is the elected president with the most votes and that that gives him a lot of power and so on, well, this is not true at all, he did get a lot of votes and it is the largest amount but it was in the second round, in the In the first round he obtained only 30% and "lost" against the ruling party, which obtained 36% of the votes, and the third place was obtained by the one representing former president Macri with 23%.

People outside of Argentina inflated this story because they simply don't understand what actually happened there and the only thing that matters to them is that the new president does something positive about Bitcoin and that the price of the same goes up because of that. I also read (and wrote in another thread) that Milei won only thanks to the votes of the former president voters who did not vote for him in the first round, but served as "useful fools" in some political deal that happened behind closed doors.

So what I mean by this is that he does not have all the support that they say he has, he is going to have a minority in both chambers of deputies and senators, and he is going to need a lot of help from Macri's supporters (which he can do that he has to moderate himself a lot), Argentina is also a federal country, although it does not reach the extreme of the United States, the governors are important, and MIlei has...... 0 governors.

In other words, he will talk a lot, swear and wave a chainsaw, and in the end, probably nothing important will happen. It seems that people chose him to entertain them, because obviously with his political impotence he will not be able to do anything important.

To give an example, Argentina has a huge debt with the IMF for almost 50,000 million, the net liquid reserves of the central bank are -15,000 million dollars and there is also a debt for a swap with China. With this numers you are gonna be in BIG troubles.

If at least millions were involved, it is still billions, which makes an astronomical difference.

This is Milei's main problem, she has to try to correct this quickly and without people suffering much, her room for maneuver is very very thin, one mistake and it will go out the window, and the romance will end, remember that only its hard core is 30% and the majority are young, if you disappoint them everything can fall apart very quickly.

I don't know why you talk about the president in the feminine gender, although maybe you know something that we don't? I've read some strange things to say the least about his sex life, but that's less relevant, unless he ends his term as a woman

[TopTort777]

El Salvador, copy El Salvador, be like El Salvador and etc. You guys rely to much on El Salvador Bitcoin adoption. When was the last time you saw news about El Salvador and Bitcoin? El Salvador does nothing regards Bitcoin. Bukele only used it to gain popularity points. Citizens got their 30 bucks in local wallet Chivo, immediately withdrew it and forgot about Bitcoin. What happens with their Vulcan mining now? Nobody knows. How about Bitcoin city? Nothing. Crypto investments in country? Barely heard something. Even if Argentina adds Bitcoin as legal payment, locals would still use peso and US dollar.

[coolcoinz]

To give an example, Argentina has a huge debt with the IMF for almost 50,000 million, the net liquid reserves of the central bank are -15,000 million dollars and there is also a debt for a swap with China. With this numers you are gonna be in BIG troubles.

What would happen if Argentina defaulted on its debt, similar to what Iceland did?
The IMF is corrupt and it would be great if more countries made a stand against these extortionists.
I don't fully know the state Argentina is in, but the country could create a small economic union with a few countries and show the finger to the IMF.
They're not the only country consumed by debt. They shouldn't default against other countries, but could actually make a stand against the league of banksters.

[darkangel11]

El Salvador, copy El Salvador, be like El Salvador and etc. You guys rely to much on El Salvador Bitcoin adoption. When was the last time you saw news about El Salvador and Bitcoin? El Salvador does nothing regards Bitcoin. Bukele only used it to gain popularity points. Citizens got their 30 bucks in local wallet Chivo, immediately withdrew it and forgot about Bitcoin. What happens with their Vulcan mining now? Nobody knows. How about Bitcoin city? Nothing. Crypto investments in country? Barely heard something. Even if Argentina adds Bitcoin as legal payment, locals would still use peso and US dollar.

Doesn't mean they shouldn't, right? IMO even if 5% decide to use bitcoin from time to time, showing them some positive encouragement would be a great move by the government. What would you say if your president told you that he likes bitcoin and wants you to know it will never become illegal in your country? Even such a small gesture of good will would make a change. He doesn't have to make it a legal tender!
The last I heard of Bukele and bitcoin was in 2022 when he bought some more, but I don't really follow him. You'd have to ask Max Keiser or Saifedean Ammous.
Other countries also have big plans for infrastructure that may take decades. Bitcoin city is a really bold attempt and I also doubt a small country like El Salvador can accomplish it, but let's face it, we'd all like to see such city built and without people willing to try there will be no city.

I don't know why you talk about the president in the feminine gender, although maybe you know something that we don't? I've read some strange things to say the least about his sex life, but that's less relevant, unless he ends his term as a woman

Maybe he thought you're talking about Miley Cyrus Wonder what she would do as a president of Argentina.

[TopTort777]

El Salvador, copy El Salvador, be like El Salvador and etc. You guys rely to much on El Salvador Bitcoin adoption. When was the last time you saw news about El Salvador and Bitcoin? El Salvador does nothing regards Bitcoin. Bukele only used it to gain popularity points. Citizens got their 30 bucks in local wallet Chivo, immediately withdrew it and forgot about Bitcoin. What happens with their Vulcan mining now? Nobody knows. How about Bitcoin city? Nothing. Crypto investments in country? Barely heard something. Even if Argentina adds Bitcoin as legal payment, locals would still use peso and US dollar.

Doesn't mean they shouldn't, right? IMO even if 5% decide to use bitcoin from time to time, showing them some positive encouragement would be a great move by the government. What would you say if your president told you that he likes bitcoin and wants you to know it will never become illegal in your country? Even such a small gesture of good will would make a change. He doesn't have to make it a legal tender!
The last I heard of Bukele and bitcoin was in 2022 when he bought some more, but I don't really follow him. You'd have to ask Max Keiser or Saifedean Ammous.
Other countries also have big plans for infrastructure that may take decades. Bitcoin city is a really bold attempt and I also doubt a small country like El Salvador can accomplish it, but let's face it, we'd all like to see such city built and without people willing to try there will be no city.

They should, they should if they want to. But I would not speculate much about it. I dont see people use Bitcoin as a daily currency for purchases. How long has passed since Bitcoin got official in Salvador?  Quite a moment. But if you ask cuanto cuesta? Local would tell you the price in dollars.

If my president says "I like Bitcoin and hey folks, lets make it official", I would go to google to check if there arent elections about to happen I believe that locals love their national currency so much, that they value appearance of a new or additional negatively. Its always a headache.

To my regret, cryptocurrency isnt popular enough or is used daily. If it will be announced that I would be able to pay in Bitcoin for everything I want in my country, I would not go and make celebration dance, as I am a realist and I know that people would still stick to EUR or USD, but crypto will still stay as just a nice addition and option.

[Jon_Hodl]

While this is definitely bullish for the people of Argentina, I am not so sure that anything will happen on the bitcoin front. If Milei removes all of the political red tape and bureaucracy that constantly seems to get in the way of bitcoin businesses, there is a chance that good things will happen.

If Argentina just dollarizes and not much else changes, then it will be the same old story for yet another latin American country. As it stands right now, I see Milei as more of a Bukele type player (USD first and then maybe Bitcoin in the future). It all seems too good to be true right now so I don't trust all the hype.

Time will tell. In the meantime, tick tock, next block.

[Rruchi man]

Libertarian candidate Javier Milei has just won as the next president of Argentina.  He apparently likes BTC.  This is good news for us in Bitcoinland, but also good for Argentina (assuming he governs as he said he would).

I hardly trust politicians, difficult to see one who sticks to his words and promises just after they successfully get into office. They all seem to somehow change.

 If this new president of Argentina is one different and someone who is credible, then we should expect better days ahead for bitcoins in Argentina which will also have a sort of general effect on the price. It will not happen easily because there will be lots of obstacles still for him to surpass to really make bitcoins mainstream in Argentina. It can happen, but may not happen as soon as we expect.

[d5000]

[...] I am not so sure that anything will happen on the bitcoin front. If Milei removes all of the political red tape and bureaucracy that constantly seems to get in the way of bitcoin businesses, there is a chance that good things will happen.

I'm divided on this. In general in Argentina there is a good number of Bitcoin & Crypto businesses as of now, there are about 20 registered exchanges. That's quite good for a country with 46 million inhabitants I think. For example, for exchanges you can see this list/chart site (while there is also Binance listed, most of them are Argentine exchanges).

On the other hand the Bitcoin/Crypto sphere was separated in the last years from the rest of the fintech business. Banks and fintechs offering "digital wallets" cannot offer cryptocurrencies at the same time. That seems however not have influenced the existing businesses negatively. I guess that's something that could change in Milei's government. And there is also the possibility to celebrate contracts directly in Bitcoin, which until now wasn't possible, announced by Milei's close collaborator Diana Mondino, who was one of the speakers at Argentina's biggest crypto/Bitcoin conference LaBitConf.

But there is a little problem: I think I'm not the only one guessing that most of Argentina's crypto industry had a big chance to grow due to the rigid exchange restrictions for foreign currencies. Many for example don't use the exchanges to buy Bitcoin but to buy or sell USDT to be able to own an asset linked to the US dollar. If Milei removes these restrictions then the Argentine cryptosphere could suffer. (Actually this is a situation we had already once, in 2015-19, when there was also a temporary lift. Some crypto exchanges in these years diversified their portfolio and offered also other financial services. And of course these restrictions can't last for eternity, and it's good if they're lifted. Argentina is not Cuba.)

I can however imagine options for the Milei government to counter this negative effect with some measures. For example they could remove the capital gains tax for Bitcoin to put it on the same level than currencies, which would make it very attractive as an investment. That would even make sense for them because if they want to dollarize, they will have to prevent too high demand for dollars (because there are too few dollars in the Central Bank's reserves to dollarize now), and part of this demand could thus be intended to be directed to Bitcoin/cryptos.