Bitcoin Vs Monero - Privacy as the world becomes more dystopian

[Darker45]

Monero is actually one of the reasons why I find the stand of those Bitcoin maximalists myopic. The cryptocurrency innovation doesn't have to be a one-coin or a single-project universe. Bitcoin isn't perfect in all aspects. Privacy is one thing it doesn't guarantee and even focus on. But I kind of like it this way, that Monero is being kicked out from centralized exchanges and somehow being treated as a pariah in the face of increasing regulations. Keep it that way so that Monero remains underground so to speak, unnoticed and undisturbed, yet silently functioning in its important role. I guess Bitcoin, being the face of crypto, catching all these negative criticisms is actually doing a great service to Monero.

[1714230689]

1714230689

[barto123]

I love bitcoin, however i see privacy as the #1 concern going forward.

Monero is quietly gaining lots of adoption on websites, services, exchanges, dark net markets etc.

Most of the truth & freedom movement appear to recommend it over Bitcoin.

Node count has passed BTC and mining hash rate is growing rapidly as you don't need an Asics, just your PC.

To me it seems Monero is something that should not be ignored.

Also scaling is another issue, Bitcoin fees are 1000x Monero fees.

There's no reason why you can't Coinjoin/Lightning your UTXO's in conjunction with Monero - it's a good privacy tool and supplement to Bitcoin IMO.

Thoughts please. I want some honest opinions here.

Even with all these and more supposed advantages of Monero over Bitcoin, I will still choose the later. A lot of projects have been developed with some claiming to be able to solve the scalability trilema that is attributed to Bitcoin but none have been successful in achieving this. There was a time ripple prided itself as being able to achieve this until time shows that ripple might be heavily centralized.  I believe with time, the weak side of this major contender will also surface and it will become obvious that Bitcoin will always be the leader.

Nothing is perfect, but Bitcoin is unique in many respect. This argument of Monero is coming up again because of the high fees of Bitcoin which is a consequence of Ordinal attack on Bitcoin Network. "This one too shall pass"

I used to think this, however I've realized people are mostly lazy & not very bright. privacy by default & even some degree scalability by default are a must on chain. lightning is a good little tool for more advanced users. I've had a few issues myself lately routing and making payments, I've nearly lost funds too (i know many have).

I understand wallet GUI is improving everyday & it's getting easier to obtain privacy, however it's race against CBDC's & Monero.

High fees are great for chain security and miners, however the little guys gets screwed and majority of masses are the little guy. 5-10 dollars per tx is too much. Even when you use lightning wallet, you either pay to open channel or you sacrifice privacy and security. lightning still has lots of privacy issues too.

Monero is quietly gaining lots of adoption on websites, services, exchanges, dark net markets etc.

Are you sure it is getting a lot of adoption on exchanges? Because I know there's a lot of DEXes that are supporting Monero, but it seems like centralized exchanges are rushing to drop it like a hot potato (because "money laundering" and "crime" and ... you get the idea).

You are right that Monero should not be ignored though. Both of these coins solve different kinds of problems.

I don't even use CEX's so I didn't consider even them lol. I meant on swap sites, P2P platforms (Bisq), DEX's, atomic swaps etc

Indeed Bitcoin is more like gold SoV and Monero is more cash. Lightning adoption isn't going anywhere by the looks of it. Coinjoin is expensive in high fee environment as and not really that private. In the mean time Monero is cheap & easy & does give you ample privacy. government don't like it, so there's your proof it works.

[krishnaverma]

I love bitcoin, however i see privacy as the #1 concern going forward.

Monero is quietly gaining lots of adoption on websites, services, exchanges, dark net markets etc.

Most of the truth & freedom movement appear to recommend it over Bitcoin.

Node count has passed BTC and mining hash rate is growing rapidly as you don't need an Asics, just your PC.

To me it seems Monero is something that should not be ignored.

Also scaling is another issue, Bitcoin fees are 1000x Monero fees.

There's no reason why you can't Coinjoin/Lightning your UTXO's in conjunction with Monero - it's a good privacy tool and supplement to Bitcoin IMO.

Thoughts please. I want some honest opinions here.

Yes, I also love the privacy option in monero and may others will see it as benefit. But in the same way Bitcoin has has many benefits like higher trust. So if we compare overall, Bitcoin is much ahead of monero. As a result, I am preferring Bitcoin over monero for transactions and investment.

[laurenB7742]

If talking about privacy, Monero is undeniably superior to bitcoin and when evaluating many other factors, bitcoin is also inferior to other altcoins. Bitcoin is not perfect, but the point is that everyone coming to this market needs privacy and needs a currency that can bring profits, and bitcoin is the most suitable choice. We enter this market not only about privacy, freedom, security but also about profit, the most important factor. Monero is not more popular than bitcoin, does not give better returns than bitcoin, while altcoins give better returns than bitcoin but are not more secure than bitcoin. So that's why bitcoin is the perfect combination and the best choice.

[Essential10]

Bitcoin's blockchain is larger due to the fact that Bitcoin's market cap is much larger than Monero's. As a result, Bitcoin's blockchain size is much larger than Monero's. Bitcoin and Monero are two cryptocurrencies offered in different versions apart from each other. Bitcoin privacy is an important feature, but Monero is known for its ease of use and often modern privacy technology. Monero transaction information is completely private, which can be a secret investment method for users. Bitcoin has its share of privacy debates from time to time, but it provides for secure transactions and transparent ledgers. Depending on whether you prefer more or less privacy and security levels, you can take your pick.

[btc78]

well it will depend on your intentions

if you plan on using cryptocurrency for your business that will require you transactions with other clients, monero might not be the best choice for you however like you said monero is famous for its  privacy that it’s considered the most anonymous cryptocurrency right now

while btc is decentralized, monero is still far more private

[nutildah]

I've said many times before that Monero is the only coin other than Bitcoin which I own and use, and the only altcoin I consider not to be a shitcoin. It shares many of the good things about bitcoin - decentalized, PoW, no premine, etc. - while also being far more private if used properly. I don't think it will ever replace bitcoin, but I also think it is one of the only altcoins which will continue to grow and continue to be used many years in the future.

What do you think about Litecoin adding MWeb? It's like an opt-in privacy feature... transactions don't use it by default, but if you want to use it, its there as an option.

Monero TPS is also lower than BTC due to higher TX size and lower block size, despite lower block time.

I never thought to check the average size of XMR transactions before but you're absolutely right... Doing some rough extrapolation based on the statistics here, the average XMR transaction over the last 24 hours was 2.82 kb while the average BTC transaction was about 0.2 kb (note this is a rough extrapolation).

So even if XMR txs confirm 5x faster, they are still over 10x bigger, on average.

Regardless, I see the world moving toward a place where Monero will come in more and more handy in the future, despite its negative connotations.

[o_e_l_e_o]

1. I don't properly understand the address system it has.

When you pay a Monero address, you actually use that Monero address to generate a one time address known only to you and the recipient.

2. I can't sign transactions offline, no matter how hard I tried.

You can do this using the main Monero wallet CLI or GUI. What software are you using?

3. I am not sure whether the variable sized blocks are good or not... I haven't come to a conclusion yet, but I would like to hear your thoughts.

It's an economical debate. Bitcoin uses fixed block sizes to create a fee market to ensure security once the block subsidy is irrelevant. Monero uses a tail emission, meaning fees can be lower. Both have limits on block size to prevent centralization like we see with various Bitcoin forks with much larger blocks.

[apogio]

When you pay a Monero address, you actually use that Monero address to generate a one time address known only to you and the recipient.

Which means that I can give you the primary address and it will generate a new address behind the scenes for every transaction?

You can do this using the main Monero wallet CLI or GUI. What software are you using?

This: https://www.getmonero.org/downloads/

The problem is, I run a node and this is where I have my wallet. So my wallet is online all the time.

Perhaps I could create a wallet on another offline device, sign the TX and then import it to the node's wallet to be broadcast ?

[m2017]

Monero is a much better option if you want to stay anonymous with your payments and transactions.

Ok, that's undeniable. Will monero be the best option for investing and saving your capital? Bitcoin is already more likely to fill this role. These two coins have different capabilities, which means these cryptocurrencies can be used to achieve different tasks. XMR is for anonymity, and BTC is for hodl.

No one is stopping you from using these two crypto, right. For example, keep your money in the bitcoin (you can’t argue that this coin demonstrates greater profitability than monero, has a larger capitalization and market share, which shows the greatest confidence of investors and users, and also simply has greater influence and importance for the cryptoindustry in in general), and when you need to pay for the purchase, you convert BTC to XMR in order to assert your right to privacy and anonymity.

2 coins for 2 life occasions. There is no need to try to create / find a universal coin that can satisfy all user needs. Each coin designed to perform one specific task will do it much better than any universal one. XMR - anonymity, BTC - hold.

[barto123]

I love bitcoin, however i see privacy as the #1 concern going forward.

There's no other cryptocurrencies that can provide you with the level of privacy you can have with bitcoin after knowing well that bitcoin itself is a decentralized digital currency and most of these altcoins are centralized, privacy is achieved at it's maximum level with bitcoin.

Monero is quietly gaining lots of adoption on websites, services, exchanges, dark net markets etc.

I still don't get the reason why you need to compare bitcoin with monero here, they are different things entirely, any further discussion about menero should be channelled under altcoins discussion, maintaini bitcoin discussion here is more of need than altcoins discussion.

Agreed, decentralization is very important. Monero is the only one besides Bitcoin that even comes close IMO. Most are centralized scams.

I'm more concerned about privacy here. Yes I think you can achieve privacy with Bitcoin, but it's not by default & it's not easy. Also with high fees, achieving good privacy is even more costly.

I know a lot of Bitcoiners secretly use Monero as a privacy tool for their final spend, that's another reason why I don't think this discussion belongs in the altcoin section.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Which means that I can give you the primary address and it will generate a new address behind the scenes for every transaction?

Correct. The short explanation is basically ECDH. You create a new random key pair for each transaction, and use your one time private key and my shared public key to generate a new address. I can calculate the same address by using your public key (which is attached to the transaction) and my private key. For the long explanation, see section 5.4.1 here: https://masteringmonero.com/book/Mastering%20Monero%20First%20Edition%20by%20SerHack%20and%20Monero%20Community.pdf

Perhaps I could create a wallet on another offline device, sign the TX and then import it to the node's wallet to be broadcast ?

Yes, this is the correct method. Create your wallet on your airgapped computer, and then export your private view key to your online computer to create a view only wallet. Alternatively, create your wallet on your airgapped computer, and then in the GUI go to Settings -> Wallet -> Create a view only wallet.

[AmoreJaz]

Monero is a much better option if you want to stay anonymous with your payments and transactions.

Ok, that's undeniable. Will monero be the best option for investing and saving your capital? Bitcoin is already more likely to fill this role. These two coins have different capabilities, which means these cryptocurrencies can be used to achieve different tasks. XMR is for anonymity, and BTC is for hodl.

No one is stopping you from using these two crypto, right. For example, keep your money in the bitcoin (you can’t argue that this coin demonstrates greater profitability than monero, has a larger capitalization and market share, which shows the greatest confidence of investors and users, and also simply has greater influence and importance for the cryptoindustry in in general), and when you need to pay for the purchase, you convert BTC to XMR in order to assert your right to privacy and anonymity.

2 coins for 2 life occasions. There is no need to try to create / find a universal coin that can satisfy all user needs. Each coin designed to perform one specific task will do it much better than any universal one. XMR - anonymity, BTC - hold.

that is a very good approach on this subject matter. but some people will assert or compete these 2. so why not use both where they are good at? exhaust their pros and cons because the reality is, you can't rely on one coin alone to survive in this market.
because the fact is some platforms don't have xmr, whereas, btc will always be there in the trading pair. so there's no need to fight about which one is superior over the other. just use both of them where you think it is necessary.

[Myleschetty]

Also scaling is another issue, Bitcoin fees are 1000x Monero fees.

Because Bitcoin is used 1000x more often than Monero. If Monero would reach the limits of its capacity, it would have high fees too. And since Monero is not using any different blockchain architecture that would make it more efficient than Bitcoin with block space, you can't say that it's more scalable just because the devs chose to have higher block size cap. Raising the size cap is trivial, dealing with the consequences is not.

I support what you said. I believe some crypto enthusiasts don't understand this fact about crypto usage and I can remember when Ethereum was yet to reach its maximum usage it was among one of the fair TX fee cryptocurrencies before things changed after it reached its capacity limit.
The same thing will happen to Monero and all the altcoins that claim to be scalable.

[GreatArkansas]

Monero is actually one of the reasons why I find the stand of those Bitcoin maximalists myopic. The cryptocurrency innovation doesn't have to be a one-coin or a single-project universe. Bitcoin isn't perfect in all aspects. Privacy is one thing it doesn't guarantee and even focus on. But I kind of like it this way, that Monero is being kicked out from centralized exchanges and somehow being treated as a pariah in the face of increasing regulations. Keep it that way so that Monero remains underground so to speak, unnoticed and undisturbed, yet silently functioning in its important role. I guess Bitcoin, being the face of crypto, catching all these negative criticisms is actually doing a great service to Monero.

In short, most of the altcoins now serve a different purpose. Bitcoin versus altcoins.
But this Monero vs Bitcoin, they indeed solving another problem that Bitcoin has, which for me is one of the many purposes of altcoins.
Bitcoin is more widely used, which more in payment transactions. Whereas Monero is designed for users who want more transaction privacy.

[Darker45]

~snip~

In short, most of the altcoins now serve a different purpose. Bitcoin versus altcoins.
But this Monero vs Bitcoin, they indeed solving another problem that Bitcoin has, which for me is one of the many purposes of altcoins.
Bitcoin is more widely used, which more in payment transactions. Whereas Monero is designed for users who want more transaction privacy.

No, most of the altcoins now serve the same purpose. They're copies of each other and they're only riding whatever is the hype. Most of them just want to make money. They don't offer anything new.

What my post actually meant is that there can be a legit altcoin. That's to refute those Bitcoin-only advocates. They're biased and they need to acknowledge that crypto isn't just all about Bitcoin. Monero is one good example.

But I'm not justifying the existence of tens of thousands of cryptocurrencies.

[vv181]

I don't think people actually ignore Monero, but rather they low-key utilize and are aware of its potency. The Monero ecosystem is surely not fueled by hype and so they are not gaining any widespread recognition. So it gives the sense or perception that it is being ignored. Moreover, Monero isn't advertised or endorsed heavily and bombastically, it just serves its purpose due to its technical merit, and the people who find it useful are spreading it but in a subtle manner.

You said it yourself they are quietly gaining the adoption, a coin that truly solves and serves people's needs will surely thrive consistently.

But this Monero vs Bitcoin, they indeed solving another problem that Bitcoin has, which for me is one of the many purposes of altcoins.
Bitcoin is more widely used, which more in payment transactions. Whereas Monero is designed for users who want more transaction privacy.

That is another important point, we don't necessarily have to compare either this or that. People have the option and should make their own decisions to choose what coin suits their needs.

[Blitzboy]

I really like Bitcoin, but its been harder than I thought to get into Monero. Monero is becoming more popular is correct; its privacy-focused features are what make it so popular. But it's impossible to ignore Bitcoin's established power and wider acceptance. Why is Monero's privacy a double-edged sword? It does give you anonymity, but there is a steep learning curve, which could stop most people from using it.

Monero's non - reliance on ASICs for mining democratises involvement, but one must wonder whether this makes the network more vulnerable to centralization as mining becomes more profitable for those with better hardware. You talk about Coinjoin and Lightning with UTXOs in Monero. This is interesting, but its not easy to make these work together. Its a complicated interaction between two different systems, each with its own quirks.

Even though Bitcoin has problems with fees and scaling, its network impact and constant improvements are too important to ignore. You are right to tell people not to ignore Monero; it is an interesting option, especially for people who value privacy. But its important to keep your excitement in check by being realistic about the pros and cons of each coin.

[barto123]

The comparison between Bitcoin and Monero in terms of privacy is unfair because the only use of Monero is due to high privacy. I can understand the comparison between Bitcoin and Monero in general, but in terms of privacy, Monero is better.
Bitcoin was not built to enhance privacy in the same way as Monero, but rather to enhance transparency and make it difficult to track and stop who sent the transaction despite the possibility of knowing who sent it.

Bitcoin started with people who were anarchists, anti-establishment. This culture around hodl and number go up is more about getting rich than fixing the world. A lot of people in the Monero community argue that Satoshi's original vision was to make it private on chain. I think transparency is good for government, but individuals should have privacy. And so I think they're correct when they say you can't have freedom unless you have privacy. The state would not survive if everyone had privacy. Similarly, the state would not survive if it was transparent & everyone knew the truth, the illusion would crumble fast. There's more people in Monero who have swallowed the red pill & can see the matrix.

[barto123]

The difference is when you're use Monero, other people will automatically think you're use it for illegal thing.

But when you use Bitcoin, people wouldn't automatically judge you're using it for illegal thing since most country accept it, moreover El Salvador dare to legalize it as legal tender.

So holding and using Bitcoin give you a neutral impression instead of Monero.

What if this type of thinking has been indoctrinated & brainwashed into people by the state?

They want you to feel like a criminal just because you want privacy.

Everything is backwards in society, all the biggest crimes are being committed at the top (wars, genocide, money laundering, counterfeiting, pedophilia - list goes on)

Sure there's a small percentage of bad people amongst us, but they're a small minority.

The main problem is the controlling hand of governments - the elites (parasites). They just lie about everything & most people believe them.

Privacy is security, so it's in everyone best interest to be as private as possible. especially in the digital age.