Bitcoin Vs Monero - Privacy as the world becomes more dystopian

[arabspaceship123]

If ppl prefer to use Bitcoin because it's decentralised why can't it be updated in future to obfuscate spends. It's still going to be decentralised.

I know ppl use Monero for final spend or convert back to BTC because it's a privacy coin. Swaps from BTC to XMR help if you're wanting privacy for final spend but if you're trying to avoid using tumbles it costs more if XMR value went low if you're swapping XMR back to BTC.

Agreed, decentralization is very important. Monero is the only one besides Bitcoin that even comes close IMO. Most are centralized scams.

I'm more concerned about privacy here. Yes I think you can achieve privacy with Bitcoin, but it's not by default & it's not easy. Also with high fees, achieving good privacy is even more costly.

I know a lot of Bitcoiners secretly use Monero as a privacy tool for their final spend, that's another reason why I don't think this discussion belongs in the altcoin section.

[moneystery]

you are right that monero offers higher privacy compared to what bitcoin offers. but why monero seems unattractive to people is because it is not completely anonymous anymore because at any time regulators can crackdown on monero. and especially in the minds of most people today, bitcoin is the most popular coin which offers a level of anonymity and security in transactions compared to what other coins offer. also, the adoption level of bitcoin is higher compared to monero, and for this reason more people use bitcoin compared to monero.

[barto123]

Monero is a much better option if you want to stay anonymous with your payments and transactions.

It might beat Bitcoin in that specific aspect, but overall, Bitcoin holds more value, and that's quite evident. I believe Monero has potential for future growth, but it's unlikely to surpass what Bitcoin has already achieved. Bitcoin remains the main cryptocurrency accepted by the majority, and even though it doesn't offer complete privacy due to government regulations, we still need Bitcoin to lead the market. This way, altcoins like Monero can have a chance to progress.

I think it really depends which way the world goes. If enough people stop complying with tyranny, Bitcoin will go to the moon regardless. If enough people don't wake up to the truth of this reality and take a stand, Monero is going to be in high demand and very valuable IMO. Privacy will be the #1 priority in a cashless world governed by an AI surveillance grid.

[arabspaceship123]

What you're saying about Monero isn't how it functions because regulators haven't cracked down on Monero. If they regulated XMR they wouldn't be able to decrypt it so the most they'll achieve is ban it from regulated exchanges. When ppl access crypto addresses on blockchains they'll use mixers to get privacy so Monero's a choice. Bitcoin doesn't hide your trades but XMR's a privacy coin so it's completely anonymous.

you are right that monero offers higher privacy compared to what bitcoin offers. but why monero seems unattractive to people is because it is not completely anonymous anymore because at any time regulators can crackdown on monero.

 

[o_e_l_e_o]

Bitcoin started with people who were anarchists, anti-establishment. This culture around hodl and number go up is more about getting rich than fixing the world.

I was just saying this in another thread. The influx of people who just want to use bitcoin to make fiat profit, instead of wanting to use bitcoin as freedom money, is driving us down the route towards bitcoin becoming a government permissioned network. The current monero community is similar to the bitcoin community of 10 years ago. The bitcoin community of today is all about "when moon".

If they regulated XMR they wouldn't be able to decrypt it so the most they'll achieve is ban it from regulated exchanges.

Most scam centralized exchanges delisted monero years ago, and no one who actually uses monero for its anonymity is buying it on a centralized exchange anyway. Monero has been thriving on DEXs and P2P trades for years, and will continue to do so.

[apogio]

I have been running a monero node on an old laptop.
However, I need this laptop for other purposes now so I plan to set up a new node on a raspberry Pi that runs Raspbian.
I will run both bitcoin and monero nodes on the same machine. Do you think it is possible?
I think I won't have an issue running both of them. I have an SSD with 2TB capacity.

[fuguebtc]

The difference is when you're use Monero, other people will automatically think you're use it for illegal thing.

But when you use Bitcoin, people wouldn't automatically judge you're using it for illegal thing since most country accept it, moreover El Salvador dare to legalize it as legal tender.

So holding and using Bitcoin give you a neutral impression instead of Monero.

Are you sure that when you use bitcoin, people will never doubt you and believe you only use bitcoin for good purposes? If everyone thinks like you say then why do many governments consider bitcoin to be related to crime, why does the US government always try to shut down bitcoin mixers? And there are also many cases where criminals using bitcoin for illegal transactions have been detected. Bitcoin, XMR or fiat are just means, tools and what people use them for depends on their behavior. Don't be too biased bitcoin and monero is also a good coin, but it's not as bad as you say.

[barto123]

While I am somewhat concerned about privacy violations and how tons of data end up in the hands of corporations, as well as governments, it's not my #1 concern, and I don't mind a balance of privacy and security. So, to me, Bitcoin is enough. When using a wallet like Electrum, I'm not providing any information about my real identity to anyone, so it's private enough for me. Perhaps, if someone really put their mind to it, they could find out my real identity, but why would anyone want to do that? It takes resources, and I'm just a regular human being.
I don't mind Monero and the existence of similar currencies, but I also appreciate the transparency that comes with Bitcoin's pseudonymity, so I don't feel like I need Monero, personally.

Fair enough.

I personally believe privacy is security. One of the best forms of security is to not reveal sensitive data about yourself - like how much Bitcoin/Monero you have.

The reason why I believe privacy is #1 concern is because the direction in which the globalists are taking the world is complete control of everything. The want to control every living thing. Sounds like a conspiracy theory until you realize they say it in plain sight.

The CBDC (or whatever they chose to call it) is where everything changes. The best way to see the future they're planning is look at China & the social credit system. If you say the wrong thing about your government you can lose your privilege to board a train. Even this is just the tip of the iceberg compared to what they're planning.

One of the many reasons they're pushing climate change, so they can tie in multiple system of control. For instance, you've reached your total carbon credit for the month and cannot eat anymore beef, because cow farts are bad for the environment. So now they can freeze your money because your food intake is tracked. Yes Bitcoin is censorship resistant, however your connection the to internet is not.

All total BS to push us into total communism. The world is not what you think it is and that's why I think privacy will be very important.

[arabspaceship123]

The reason Monero's got strength in privacy's because XMR doesn't connect funds so if ppl used XMR from centralised exchanges they'd lose anonymity. It isn't recommended to swap there but if Monero stays on decentralised exchanges it's going to be swapped. If bitcoin can't become a privacy coin ppl will use Monero.

If they regulated XMR they wouldn't be able to decrypt it so the most they'll achieve is ban it from regulated exchanges.

Most scam centralized exchanges delisted monero years ago, and no one who actually uses monero for its anonymity is buying it on a centralized exchange anyway. Monero has been thriving on DEXs and P2P trades for years, and will continue to do so.

[wallet4bitcoin]

I love bitcoin, however i see privacy as the #1 concern going forward.

Monero is quietly gaining lots of adoption on websites, services, exchanges, dark net markets etc.

Most of the truth & freedom movement appear to recommend it over Bitcoin.

Node count has passed BTC and mining hash rate is growing rapidly as you don't need an Asics, just your PC.

To me it seems Monero is something that should not be ignored.

Also scaling is another issue, Bitcoin fees are 1000x Monero fees.

There's no reason why you can't Coinjoin/Lightning your UTXO's in conjunction with Monero - it's a good privacy tool and supplement to Bitcoin IMO.

Thoughts please. I want some honest opinions here.

I have always admired privacy coins and not just monero alone, I consider them the future with the whole clamp down by SEC and agencies, I feel like there Is a war between the institutional finance system and the blockchain oriented finance system and it might further drive users into the world of advanced privacy, even though bitcoin is still the flagship and most popular crypto currency, people will opt for a privacy driven coin to avoid certain brouhaha.

[nutildah]

The reason Monero's got strength in privacy's because XMR doesn't connect funds so if ppl used XMR from centralised exchanges they'd lose anonymity. It isn't recommended to swap there but if Monero stays on decentralised exchanges it's going to be swapped. If bitcoin can't become a privacy coin ppl will use Monero.

If you receive XMR from a KYC exchange, they don't know who sent it to you, only that you received XMR. If you send XMR from a KYC exchange, they will know the address you are sending it to & the amount, but nothing beyond that. They really have no idea what you are using it for unless they ask you and you tell them.

I'm not sure there's any "decentralized" exchange for XMR. Maybe AtomicSwap supports it but I'm not sure, and they've had troubles recently. ThorSwap doesn't support it at all. There are only KYC exchanges, non-KYC exchanges, and swapping services (a mixture of KYC and non-KYC).

[Sipizter]

Also scaling is another issue, Bitcoin fees are 1000x Monero fees.

Because Bitcoin is used 1000x more often than Monero. If Monero would reach the limits of its capacity, it would have high fees too. And since Monero is not using any different blockchain architecture that would make it more efficient than Bitcoin with block space, you can't say that it's more scalable just because the devs chose to have higher block size cap. Raising the size cap is trivial, dealing with the consequences is not.

This is not true. Monero's broadcasted transactions per second are typically 5 - 10% of Bitcoin's transactions. Sometimes reaching as high as 20%. At the time writing this Monero has 0.29 tx/sec where as Bitcoin has 3.25 tx/sec. This is a nice site to see real-time statistics in comparison: https://txstreet.com/v/xmr-btc

[BlackHatCoiner]

Perhaps, if someone really put their mind to it, they could find out my real identity, but why would anyone want to do that?

Because your identity and activities / preferences / transactions, if tied together, are worth a lot of money. I mean, not particularly yours personally, but en masse a lot. Currently, data brokers is one of the most profitable professions in the branches of informatics.

But, besides data brokers, you wouldn't tell a stranger how much money you have. Why? Because that gives away unnecessary information that can be easily exploited.

[adultcrypto]

I have always admired privacy coins and not just monero alone, I consider them the future with the whole clamp down by SEC and agencies, I feel like there Is a war between the institutional finance system and the blockchain oriented finance system and it might further drive users into the world of advanced privacy, even though bitcoin is still the flagship and most popular crypto currency, people will opt for a privacy driven coin to avoid certain brouhaha.

At first I thought that Bitcoin offer that privacy until when I knew better. Without privacy, there will be huge problem in the future and recent developments already confirms this. Even though privacy coins can also be used for the wrong reasons, they offer the only way out of total control by the super powers.

For several governments and agencies to be against mixers they bring some level of privacy to Bitcoin, it is an indication that they will see privacy coins as a big threat to their power.

[Sim_card]

For several governments and agencies to be against mixers they bring some level of privacy to Bitcoin, it is an indication that they will see privacy coins as a big threat to their power.

They are not just against mixer but they are against any technology that will give us privacy and they will do whatever it takes to make sure that they deprive us from our privacy. We can see how they have bought some mining pool over to be on their side so that they can control which transaction should be added to the mining pool or not. And as humans due to greed, they forgot that it is only us that can make bitcoin more private by protecting bitcoin from the government. Monero has a better privacy than bitcoin because nobody cares about it, but everyone is after bitcoin for their own selfish reason.

[darkangel11]

If ppl prefer to use Bitcoin because it's decentralised why can't it be updated in future to obfuscate spends. It's still going to be decentralised.

There's mixing. It's possible to create a second layer, like LN, than automatically mixes coins.
Bitcoin can be improved when it comes to privacy, but why should it be? I own some old bitcoin that was bought long ago on a now defunct exchange. Nobody can subpoena that exchange as it shut down years ago and the owner was found dead years later. If I paid you for something illegal, nobody would be able to find my name, or even the person who bought bitcoin from me. Bitcoin is as private as we want it to be. If you use a centralized exchange that has all your private data, with pictures, you have no privacy, but some people don't care.

[cryptosize]

The reason why I believe privacy is #1 concern is because the direction in which the globalists are taking the world is complete control of everything. The want to control every living thing. Sounds like a conspiracy theory until you realize they say it in plain sight.

The CBDC (or whatever they chose to call it) is where everything changes. The best way to see the future they're planning is look at China & the social credit system. If you say the wrong thing about your government you can lose your privilege to board a train. Even this is just the tip of the iceberg compared to what they're planning.

One of the many reasons they're pushing climate change, so they can tie in multiple system of control. For instance, you've reached your total carbon credit for the month and cannot eat anymore beef, because cow farts are bad for the environment. So now they can freeze your money because your food intake is tracked. Yes Bitcoin is censorship resistant, however your connection the to internet is not.

All total BS to push us into total communism. The world is not what you think it is and that's why I think privacy will be very important.

Even people on this board still believe this is a silly tinfoil hat conspiracy theory ("Digital ID is a good thing, it will reduce bureaucracy" ) and also believe that human beings cause climate change (therefore a population reduction would be "appropriate") due to CO2 (which is plants' food).

I say cull the useless eaters (their BTC will disappear from circulation if they don't inherit the private key to anyone), we don't need them anyway. The jabs will do it either way...

Regarding Monero, I think it has a real chance to replace cash, especially in notorious transactions (such as drugs, hookers and maybe even red meat, assuming it becomes illegal in the future).

But Bitcoin will still be better for savings, since Monero has eternal inflation (tail emission).

Monero for e-cash and Bitcoin for savings/digital gold sounds good enough to me.

[jossiel]

I like Monero and there is no doubt if the topic to be discussed is about privacy, it's the most recommended cryptocurrency to use.

But when you've said about it gaining lots of adoptions from exchanges, you have to consider the news of it being delisted mostly in popular exchanges and I think in some other global exchanges as well.

• Binance to Delist Monero, Zcash in 4 European Countries
• CoinSpot will be delisting Monero (XMR), Bytecoin (BCN) & ZCoin (XZC)
• Huobi to delist Monero and other privacy coins, citing regulatory pressures

There's a big issue on it and as we can see, it's being cracked by the governments.

[Casdinyard]

Monero's definitely a worthy contender, but that doesn't mean you could just dismiss bitcoin just cause it's not "decentralized enough for you"

Plus it's not even true that Monero's being adopted in most crypto exchanges, just a couple of months ago as stated beforehand by @jossiel and as I will reiterate, massive exchanges like binance and huobi are dropping their Monero listings over concerns about it being exploited for its overtly anonymous features, and also because there's not much use case behind monero besides the fact that it's secure, which most cryptocurrencies are in the first place. Is Monero a good coin? Yes. Is it worth dismissing the impact and longevity of bitcoin over? Probably not. You can't put a price on price security especially in an industry that's as volatile as the crypto world.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I'm not sure there's any "decentralized" exchange for XMR.

Bisq is the best option.

But when you've said about it gaining lots of adoptions from exchanges, you have to consider the news of it being delisted mostly in popular exchanges and I think in some other global exchanges as well.

As far as I see it, being delisted from KYCed centralized exchanges is a good thing - it proves that Monero works, the government are unable to trace it or deanonymize it like they can do with every other coin, so instead they are resorting to delisting it. Delisting shows that it works. And as I said before, no one who actually uses Monero cares about this since they aren't using KYCed exchanges in the first place.

There's a big issue on it and as we can see, it's being cracked by the governments.

So is bitcoin. We are seeing mining pools like F2Pool censoring transactions the government tells them to. We are seeing wallets like Wasabi censoring inputs the government tells them to. We are seeing regulations which will ban self custody and mean bitcoin can only be bought, stored, and sold on fully KYCed centralized exchanges. And yet no one seems to care that bitcoin is marching towards a government permissioned network. Bitcoin is being cracked down on by governments even more strongly than Monero is. The difference is they can't do any of these things with Monero, so they are just forcing it to be delisted instead.