Eligius pool is back under the new name Ocean

[mikeywith]

It will be very interesting to see how things turn out an if the people following ordinals try to fin workarounds if Core happens to follow this path.

Indeed, many incredible events are going to unfold just in time for the halving, though I wonder why on Ocean's main page it says "Message from Luke"

"Bitcoin is no longer censorship-resistant, and mining centralisation endangers its security too. It's time to fix that."

And then Ocean is the first pool to censor certain types of transactions for something that has yet to reach consensus, wouldn't be wise to just sense what the other nodes would do and let his pool facilitate the transactions that are agreed upon by other nodes? in other words, let the filter/ban come from BTC itself rather than the pool code?
 

The answer is more boring that one might guess. I wear a signature on my profile which the pool admins might not like so I decided to voluntarily delete my thread to allow them to post their thread on their own, if they want.

That is a reasonable answer, thanks for answering my question. although I think you should have kept your post debunking the other user's claim regarding certain miners can't use the pool, that topic will still be acceptable via the search engine, but ya, perhaps if Ocean folks create their own topic here, the discussion could move there instead.

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[NotFuzzyWarm]

It will be very interesting to see how things turn out an if the people following ordinals try to fin workarounds if Core happens to follow this path.

Indeed, many incredible events are going to unfold just in time for the halving, though I wonder why on Ocean's main page it says "Message from Luke"

"Bitcoin is no longer censorship-resistant, and mining centralisation endangers its security too. It's time to fix that."

And then Ocean is the first pool to censor certain types of transactions for something that has yet to reach consensus, wouldn't be wise to just sense what the other nodes would do and let his pool facilitate the transactions that are agreed upon by other nodes? in other words, let the filter/ban come from BTC itself rather than the pool code?

Actually Ocean is not the 1st but Luke's original Eligius may have been, remember he blocked casino tx's going through it. More recently, back in 2021 Marathon mining group (MARA) tried the idea and immediately caught all kinds of hell for doing it. After just few months they stopped censoring tx's because of the uproar.

Where's the hue-and-cry from the anti-censorship crowd today on this?  

[alani123]

You can't compare apples to oranges.
Marathon pool complying with OFAC sanctions has nothing to do with filtering out ordinal transactions.
The government of the U.S. has nothing against Ordinals and inscriptions.

But there are good arguments towards pointing that inscriptions are actually a valid exploit of bitcoin's protocol and should be patched or at least filtered to the maximum extent.

The u.s. gov would be very happy to let us destroy BTC on our own I am sure.

[NotATether]

Is anyone from here mining at that pool right now? It would be interesting to know how TIDES distributed the rewards in a practical setting compared to FPPS.

One question I'm interested in asking, given Mr Luke's thoughts on Ordinals, will this pool mine BRC-20 and Ordinal NFT transactions in its blocks?

That would be an irony that must be carefully followed.

I mean, this has always been a controversial pool even before the rebranding, so there will always be people against it.

[mikeywith]

Where's the hue-and-cry from the anti-censorship crowd today on this?  

Many of those people think that Core Devs can do whatever they want, they are the good guys, it is us the miners and regular users, it is always us causing all the problems which the devs need to fix.

So devs' censorship is viewed as "protection" for bitcoin.

[HmmMAA]

Where's the hue-and-cry from the anti-censorship crowd today on this?  

Many of those people think that Core Devs can do whatever they want, they are the good guys, it is us the miners and regular users, it is always us causing all the problems which the devs need to fix.

So devs' censorship is viewed as "protection" for bitcoin.

Yep , devs can do what they want and censor according to their beliefs . It's funny though that Luke was pushing the arbitrary data he liked in the past https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=38007.0

[mikeywith]

Yep , devs can do what they want and censor according to their beliefs . It's funny though that Luke was pushing the arbitrary data he liked in the past https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=38007.0

Seems like Luke was very specific on the type of arbitrary data, he wants Catholic data on blockchain , so, it is okay to put your own religion prayers on the blockchain but no for things that people view as an "art" of some nature?

The problem is not with Luke, it is all these selfish bitcoiners who want to transact for 2 sat / vbyte, if you tell them Luke is going to censorship 90% of transactions that isn't theirs -- they would probably accept it.

What some people do not understand is that this action (call it filtration or bug-fix or whatever) is going to be viewed as censorship by many people, and this is bad for bitcoin, probably worse than high fees.

[DaveF]

https://twitter.com/SamouraiWallet/status/1732584009442443336

We can confirm that @ocean_mining
 has enacted a policy of censoring Whirlpool coinjoin transactions and BIP47 notification transactions as of Dec 6, 2023

This is a regrettable action by the operators @jack
 and @LukeDashjr
 and far surpasses any hostile action we have seen before

If you mine here I really hope you don't like privacy.
I have said this about other pools many times. Their house, their rules you don't like it mine elsewhere.

But they are not even censoring OFAC addresses, they are not allowing coinjoins in general.

-Dave

[stompix]

Seems like Luke was very specific on the type of arbitrary data, he wants Catholic data on blockchain , so, it is okay to put your own religion prayers on the blockchain but no for things that people view as an "art" of some nature?

No, you've got it all wrong.
It's ok to put your religion prayers in the blockchain as long as you're catholic, if you're not you're free to not put them!  

I don't remember to well as I never really bothered with such a thing but I was living under the impression Arabic and Chinese characters are larger in size, so you're going to have to pay extra for your faith! Free market capitalism!!!

But they are not even censoring OFAC addresses, they are not allowing coinjoins in general.

Simple explanation, starts with derange* and ends with *eranged individual with an ego the size of Olympus Mons.
I remember how he was angry at everyone when he got "hacked" and everything was flawed and to blame other than this won setup.

But there are good arguments towards pointing that inscriptions are actually a valid exploit of bitcoin's protocol and should be patched or at least filtered to the maximum extent.

Oh yeah here we go again, how many times am I going to post this in a row today?
Repeat after me: My censorship is good, yours is bad!

[cryptosize]

Repeat after me: My censorship is good, yours is bad!

Unfortunately BTC cannot fix the flawed human nature/psychology (hypocrisy/double standards).

[mikeywith]

No, you've got it all wrong.
It's ok to put your religion prayers in the blockchain as long as you're catholic, if you're not you're free to not put them!  

Lol, i hope it stops there, what if we start actually censoring non-catholic prayers? Even better I suppose, but ya, fudge is all i can say.

I don't remember to well as I never really bothered with such a thing but I was living under the impression Arabic and Chinese characters are larger in size, so you're going to have to pay extra for your faith! Free market capitalism!!!

Anything outside the ASCII code will require more space, so basically chars including all Latin letters, Arabic/Hindu letters ( which many people call English numbers for whatever reason) and a few other chars, so ya basically, any prayers that are not Latin are going to cost you at least double the price since unicode is 16 to 32 bits depending on the encoding while ASCI is just 7 or 8 bits (ASCII or Extended ASCII)

So you either pray in Latin letters or convert your religion, both should work.

[alani123]

Every time something Luke talks about is brought up people will have to remind everyone of his religion.
Why? We are not in a Christian or religious debate forum. Literally nobody should care about this.

The discussion on how inscriptions abuse bugs in Bitcoin code is a very serious discussion on its own and whoever conflates it with irrelevant points and assassinations of character is actively doing a disservice to bitcoin's future.
And like, ok, I get that some people here have conflicting interests like for example someone running a competing pool to Luke' OCEAN now... But for Bitcoin users? Increasing bitcoin's transactional utility is literally good for everyone.

[cryptosize]

Every time something Luke talks about is brought up people will have to remind everyone of his religion.
Why? We are not in a Christian or religious debate forum. Literally nobody should care about this.

The discussion on how inscriptions abuse bugs in Bitcoin code is a very serious discussion on its own and whoever conflates it with irrelevant points and assassinations of character is actively doing a disservice to bitcoin's future.
And like, ok, I get that some people here have conflicting interests like for example someone running a competing pool to Luke' OCEAN now... But for Bitcoin users? Increasing bitcoin's transactional utility is literally good for everyone.

Because big blockers hate him and they have to "remind" us that he's a religious fanatic and/or dog-cat eater.

«Άμα θέλω να σε βρίσω, 1000 αφoρμές σoυ βρίσκω»

[alani123]

Because big blockers hate him and they have to "remind" us that he's a religious fanatic and/or dog-cat eater.

People hate Luke for do many reasons that I have completely lost count.
Frankly I don't even remember what he did in the block size wars time. Probably his stance wasn't as remarkable.
But most points in have heard against him date to years even before that, like more than 10 years ago.

Idk but people still in the Bitcoin community seem to have some long standing interpersonal hatred, it's kinda odd to observe tbh.

[cryptosize]

Because big blockers hate him and they have to "remind" us that he's a religious fanatic and/or dog-cat eater.

People hate Luke for do many reasons that I have completely lost count.
Frankly I don't even remember what he did in the block size wars time. Probably his stance wasn't as remarkable.
But most points in have heard against him date to years even before that, like more than 10 years ago.

Idk but people still in the Bitcoin community seem to have some long standing interpersonal hatred, it's kinda odd to observe tbh.

It's not that strange TBH... ever been involved in other communities/fora?

Linux distro wars (i.e. Ubuntu vs Debian = which one is the "true" GNU/Linux?) are not all that different compared to block size wars.

Human nature/psychology (deeply tribal) is always the same. "My tribe is better than your tribe"

But most people here are IT-focused, so it's understandable that they don't know much about human psychology traits.

[mikeywith]

Every time something Luke talks about is brought up people will have to remind everyone of his religion.

He brought his religion on the blockchain, I doubt anyone would have asked him about his religion if he did not do it, but then again, we are not debating religion, you need to

1- read things in their context
2- understand our sense of humor

Now ya, given that most of us miners are boring tech folks, our humor is probably terrible, but for real, we are not debating his religion, i could not care less about it.

The criticism is:

1-If Luke is allowed to put his religious prayers or scriptures on the blockchain, why can't I put my penis jpeg on the blockchain?

2- Luke sells his pool as the "anti-censorship" pool, it is almost the main feature the pool claims to have, so he does not censorship OFAC listed addresses, but goes to censor other transactions, censorship is censorship does not matter how you label it, is censorship good or bad for bitcoin?

Because big blockers

You must be new here, big blockers are next door, in the altcoin section.

[cryptosize]

Because big blockers

You must be new here, big blockers are next door, in the altcoin section.

You must be new here if you don't know why HmmMAA visits this thread... he's a BSV fanatic and he's going to attack everyone (character assassination) who doesn't support big blocks.

[mikeywith]

You must be new here if you don't know why HmmMAA visits this thread.

Yes indeed, I am indeed new here, 6 years in the mining section does not make me old by any measure, but then I don't care why HmmMAA or anyone else comes to post here, all I read is their "content", and he brings valid points which you need to counter with valid points instead of personal b.s, if your argument against HmmMAA is the fact that he is BSV supporter and supports bigger blocks bla bla(which I don't even know if they are valid accusations or not and honestly I don't care), then what's your argument against everyone else here who surely aren't buying Luke's pool bullshit?

I have nothing against Luke, his religion, his small block narrative or anything of that nature, my only concern is the fact that when you visit the pool website you see a bold statement with font size 36 or so saying

"Bitcoin is no longer censorship-resistant, and mining centralisation endangers its security too. It's time to fix that."

And then he goes to censorship transactions, in fact,  Ocean is the only pool now that practices non state-forced censorship, the other 1-2 pools who censor based on the OFAC list can argue that they are forced to by the government, Luke is practicing censorship without any sort of pressure, so what gives?

Then me and the other members commented on some false claims posted on their websites such as

when the pools choose to do it there are 11 entities who decide what transactions go in (or stay out) of almost every block, and simply the 2 largest can impose censorship on everyone else with 100% success.

first of all, the number 11 was pulled out of no where, and then that 100% success claim is false, so in a polite statement, Luke posts some wrong info there, in a not so polite manner, whatever he wrote there is just pure bullshit to promote his pool.

If you have any good arguments to defend him without targeting anyone who criticizes him -- go ahead.

[cryptosize]

You must be new here if you don't know why HmmMAA visits this thread.

Yes indeed, I am indded new here, 6 years in the mining section does not make me old by any measure, but then I don't care why HmmMAA or anyone else comes to post here, all I read is their "content", and he brings valid points which you need to counter with valid points instead of personal b.s

"Valid" points indeed, zero personal bullshit:

PS . Anyone know if Luke finally ate a cat ? Or a dog ?  https://twitter.com/LukeDashjr/status/1169615995742380035 . One the most sane people you should follow

Care to explain why should we care about Luke's eating habits?

[mikeywith]

"Valid" points indeed, zero personal bullshit:

I did not say he brings nothing but valid points, so not sure what are you trying to do here, there valid points, and I summarized some of them in my previous post, do you have any actual argument against them?

Can you you put HmmMAA on ignore so none of his posts show to you and then explain why you called us big blockers and how can you counter our arguments?