[ANN] BitMixList.org - Bitcoin Mixer List

[NotATether]

Even more reason why this should not be banned from bitcointalk.

On the contrary, this is one of the reasons listed by theymos for banning mixers:

~ allowing them has become too risky/problematic, and it's only going to get worse. Imagine ~ our service providers suddenly banning us due to being "associated" with mixers

Service providers should not be banning people for posting links to resources, as long as they aren't darknet and illegal (mixers are not illegal [yet]). Besides, the forum is hosted in US jurisdiction, which means as a content provider, they should not be held liable for its users.

I do not know what hosting provider is used by the forum, or whether it is managed by Cyrus, but you'd certainly expect them to choose one that isn't sensitive over cryptocurrency, considering that there haven't been issues in that regard for years. And cloudflare never bans crypto sites AFAIK.

Although I will probably get rid of ads.

@dkbit98 I don't think I'm going to be migrating anytime soon after this, but for now I will probably turn on Cloudflare for better caching and so I don't expose my hardware to DDoS.

[1714526242]

1714526242

[LoyceV]

Service providers should not be banning people for posting links to resources

Now you're looking at it from a moral point of view. That doesn't matter for (most) businesses, which means some providers will be more restrictive than others.

[FatFork]

I don't think I'm going to be migrating anytime soon after this, but for now I will probably turn on Cloudflare for better caching and so I don't expose my hardware to DDoS.

I'm glad to hear that the site is back up and running.  Out of curiosity, who is currently hosting it? I hope you don't mind me asking.

And, since there are active links to mixer sites, did you check with the new host to make sure that's allowed in their terms of service? I hope this transition goes smoothly for you and you don't run into any more surprises.

[bitmover]

Congratulations NotATether.

I have just one comment for now.

I think swap services are not DEX. For example, exceto.https://exch.cx/is a great swap service but it is centralized,  isn't it?

Esit: maybe you could use "non kyc exchanges/swaps"

[NotATether]

I don't think I'm going to be migrating anytime soon after this, but for now I will probably turn on Cloudflare for better caching and so I don't expose my hardware to DDoS.

I'm glad to hear that the site is back up and running.  Out of curiosity, who is currently hosting it? I hope you don't mind me asking.

Currently, it's running on my dedicated server on Leaseweb, who are very lax to the point of allowing torrents - not that I did that the last few years.

And, since there are active links to mixer sites, did you check with the new host to make sure that's allowed in their terms of service? I hope this transition goes smoothly for you and you don't run into any more surprises.

See above. This is not a web host or anything, but a dedicated server. As long as I'm not running spam or viruses, I'm fine

Congratulations NotATether.

I have just one comment for now.

I think swap services are not DEX. For example, exceto.https://exch.cx/is a great swap service but it is centralized,  isn't it?

Esit: maybe you could use "non kyc exchanges/swaps"

I guess that would work.

[NotATether]

For the moment, BitMixList and the onion site are both down. The server is not responding, but I cannot confirm whether it is a DDoS. I'm working on fixing this issue.

Imagine what kind of low-life it takes to have an issue with a brand-new mixer list....

[LoyceV]

Imagine what kind of low-life it takes to have an issue with a brand-new mixer list....

Many mixers in the past got DDoSsed shortly after they posted on Bitcointalk. I can only speculate why: Take out competitors? Phishing sites wanting full attention? Force them to use Cloudflare?

As theymos wrote:

The Internet is seriously flawed if everyone needs to huddle behind these huge centralized anti-DDoS companies in order to survive...

[NotATether]

Imagine what kind of low-life it takes to have an issue with a brand-new mixer list....

Many mixers in the past got DDoSsed shortly after they posted on Bitcointalk. I can only speculate why: Take out competitors? Phishing sites wanting full attention? Force them to use Cloudflare?

As theymos wrote:

The Internet is seriously flawed if everyone needs to huddle behind these huge centralized anti-DDoS companies in order to survive...

But this is not a mixer service, this is just a list of mixers.

Why would anyone be so interested in that, especially when there are so many other lists on the internet doing fine?

[LoyceV]

But this is not a mixer service, this is just a list of mixers.

Why would anyone be so interested in that, especially when there are so many other lists on the internet doing fine?

Just a guess: there are also lists that include phishing sites, and if there's a site that might move traffic away from them, that site gets attacked.

[dkbit98]

For the moment, BitMixList and the onion site are both down. The server is not responding, but I cannot confirm whether it is a DDoS. I'm working on fixing this issue.

Sorry to hear this but I know some guys who own regular website unrelated with bitcoin and it get's ddos attacks all the time.
Shutting down websites can be profitable, but some people are doing it for fun, believe it or not.

Why would anyone be so interested in that, especially when there are so many other lists on the internet doing fine?

I don't know the real reason, but you can only imagine how they are attacking bitcointalk forum and other services all the time.

[NotATether]

Sorry to hear this but I know some guys who own regular website unrelated with bitcoin and it get's ddos attacks all the time.
Shutting down websites can be profitable, but some people are doing it for fun, believe it or not.

For now I will not disclose any details of what I am doing right now in order to avoid giving the attacker any advantage with the information.

[digaran]

I was wondering, is it possible for you to work like how google does the job? I mean I would like to have a banner on your site with "dig the pig" written in bold and have all my referral links for mixers included, then I could wear your site's sig. And you could also get a percentage from my income. How about that? 😂

[NotATether]

BitMixList and the onion site are back online

Sorry for the long delay, I had detected a DDoS attack on the server hosting the website, so I was busy moving it to new hosting.

Meanwhile the hacker continues to waste his money and resources DDoS'ing dead hardware. If that's what he wants to do then by all means, keep hammering it  

Below is a graph of my old server and you can see he is throwing 500 Mbps at me. The upload traffic was mitigated by using a firewall. Anyway like I said it still looks like they are attacking the unused IP address. I wonder for how long though

In addition, at least two dozen mirrors were created to guarantee site availability in case the main site goes down. I am constantly looking for more mirrors to chuck this on, as it is less about the mixer ban now and more about free speech.

[digaran]

How come cloudflare is not mitigating the attack? Aren't you using their protection services?

[NotATether]

How come cloudflare is not mitigating the attack? Aren't you using their protection services?

I was. But somehow they were still able to get a hold of my IP address. Exactly how they did it I don't know. Once they had it then they could send as many Layer 3/4 packets as they wanted since Cloudflare doesn't protect you from that. At least the free version doesn't, it only does layer 7 protection.

There was a brief (<12) hours period when I was using my default nameservers instead of cloudflare, but that was right after I registered the .org domain, so either they were very fast and alert, or they used another trick.

[Die_empty]

BitMixList and the onion site are back online

Glad to know that the site is back. I checked it and saw a well-packaged website that is simple, yet contains some of the most important information about mixers. It is a sad reality that restrictions will soon be placed on mixers in this forum but I will heed your advice to bookmark this page because it is priceless. The idea of updating the information on the website means that one will access the current information. NotATether has always been a tireless Bitcoin promoter, I remember the Debunking Bitcoin's energy use campaign. Keep up the good work sir.

[dkbit98]

BitMixList and the onion site are back online

Nice to see website is back online.

I was. But somehow they were still able to get a hold of my IP address. Exactly how they did it I don't know. Once they had it then they could send as many Layer 3/4 packets as they wanted since Cloudflare doesn't protect you from that. At least the free version doesn't, it only does layer 7 protection.

You probably leaked IP somehow by mistake, or some g0v was doing this attacks with unlimited resources.
I don't think that your case is anything special, as I heard many people reporting something similar recently, maybe they are gearing up for cyber-attack circus show.

[NotATether]

As we approach the new year, I am reasonably confident that this site will survive the January 1 mixer bans. Despite saying "Bitcoin Mixer List" in the title, and just writing that by itself does not break any rules by the way, the actual list of mixers is less than 1.3% of the site's content in words.

Ads have been binned across all sites. After thinking about it, I do not want to create a conflict of interest. I will not be running any ads there for the foreseeable future.

As a blog page, BitMixList does not meet criteria 1) and 2) of a mixer:

Something is considered a mixer if it meets all of these requirements:
 1. It has a feature advertised for taking property, improving its privacy somehow, and then returning roughly the same type of property.
     a. Even though you can sometimes use non-mixers to mix coins by depositing and then withdrawing, this doesn't make it a mixer because this is an incidental use of the service; the service isn't advertised as privacy-enhancing.
     b. If a site is not primarily a mixer but has a mixer function, such as a mixer function on a gambling website, then the whole site is considered a mixer.
     c. If the site takes coins, gives you a possibly-transferrable IOU, and will convert this IOU back into mixed coins much later, then the temporary conversion into a different type of property does not prevent it from being considered a mixer.
     d. If the site internally converts your deposit into other things as part of its mixing, but ultimately the point of the product is to get your original type of property back, then that's a mixer, not an exchanger.
 2. It is possible for the mixer to steal property passing through it. Assume that the sender does everything as correctly as possible. Also assume that no miners/verifiers on the base-layer cryptocurrency are evil. But assume that every other actor involved is evil (everyone able to vote in a DAO, every coordination server, every counterparty, every member of a multisig, etc.). Ignore short-term software bugs which are expected to be quickly fixed.
 3. The service does not collect KYC-type info from all users. (This is not an endorsement of KYC generally, or a condemnation of non-KYC services generally. Non-KYC services of other types are still allowed, and in many cases they are a good idea.)

Posting URLs to this site should be fine, although I advise against recommending the names of individual mixers directly on Bitcointalk, to stay on the safe side (posting mixer URLs is already not allowed).

[digaran]

Now you are safe, lets see who is gonna attack your site from now on, though they might do it, but eventually they will run out of money and drop it. And if there is any issues in the future I'm sure you will find sponsors/donation supporters to keep this up. 😉

[FinneysTrueVision]

This site is very well made. I can tell there was a lot of effort put into providing the best information possible. There is, however, some inaccurate information I found while skimming through the coinjoin section.

Whirlpool is designed to be decentralized, meaning there is no central coordinator overseeing the mixing process.

Whirlpool coinjoins are centrally coordinated, just like Wasabi's. An article published on Foundation Devices' website contains a great summary on how Whirlpool works:

The most common type of Coinjoin is known as an ‘Centrally Coordinated’ one, where there are often many participants in each transaction. An example of this is the Samourai Wallet Whirlpool implementation. In this type of setup, multiple users connect to a central coordinator which acts as a the central authority between all participants....