Second chances

[Lucius]

I think that in most cases people deserve a second chance, but I also think that most of those who were banned for plagiarism, and in some way were of value to the forum, have already received their second chance. If by any chance someone got lost in all this, then this is a good opportunity to show that they want a second chance, so good luck to everyone who got banned.


I know it's OT, but what about all these members who persistently use AI for their posts and at best their posts get deleted but they don't get any sanctions? Can the forum finally equate such posts with plagiarism and send a clear message that this is not something that will be tolerated on the forum?

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[NoorulHuda2]

Username: NoorulHuda
Constructive post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=232519.msg59908487#msg59908487 (urdu)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=232519.msg59819871#msg59819871 (English)


More Info:Banned since: May 04, 2022 - 587 days- (1 year 7 months 9 days)
Ban appeal thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5395857.0

Other post/topics:  
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5391044.0https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5391088.0

[SamReomo]

Can the forum finally equate such posts with plagiarism and send a clear message that this is not something that will be tolerated on the forum?

I believe that text generated through AI isn't a direct form of plagiarism but something which we can't really name anything else other than AI generated text. The text that AI generates can be wrong information which can lead to many problems and the worst thing about those AI models is that they have taken text and data from so many sources that it would be difficult to find that which source the model is using to generate data.

The AI text is highly unacceptable for the members of this forum who put a lot of effort to make posts but officially it isn't against the rules of the forum yet. I would say that AI generated text fits better into spam category and it should be considered unacceptable but the problem is that most of the AI text generating are getting improved with each new version and who knows that in coming days it would be impossible for any AI content detectors to detect that either a text is generated by AI text generator or a human.

[LoyceV]

I believe that text generated through AI isn't a direct form of plagiarism

Why?

plagiarism, n.
The action or practice of taking someone else's work, idea, etc., and passing it off as one's own; literary theft.

Someone created a chat bot, that means anything the chat bot spits out is created by someone. The spammer that posts it on Bitcointalk passes it off as their own, which makes it plagiarism by definition.

Even worse: it's the laziest form of plagiarism, while it's difficult to detect. If it doesn't get punished by bans, people will stop reporting it and this entire forum will be lost. There's no limit to the amount of spam a bot can create.

[Jessie2121]

Hope this second chance won't cause much damage on the forum. Good idea OP but I feel some don't deserve it at all because out of a 100 persons that are victims we only have 2-5 persons who can boldly say they have changed for good.

Yeah, you got that right.  I've seen a lot of ban appeal threads, and frankly I wouldn't give 99% of them a second chance, as those threads consist of:

1. Lies
2. Excuses
3. Begging
4. Rationalizing
5. Blaming others
6. Raging against the mods
7. Assholes who have zillions of accounts that are already banned.

That's the main problem just like you listed above, these set of persons knows why they had to do what they did before their account got banned, is like a thing of joy for them. Sometimes I ask why do we have adult with the behavior of a child? Giving that oblivious look at things they're suppose to correct when they're doing wrong, I mean is just annoying. On these issue I don't really think many would turn up, the traffic won't be that much.

[suchmoon]

Great candidate for holiday forgiveness, WO merit-whoring spammer. Unban this user and grant them 500 merits because holidays.

Username: NoorulHuda
Constructive post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=232519.msg59908487#msg59908487 (urdu)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=232519.msg59819871#msg59819871 (English)


More Info:Banned since: May 04, 2022 - 587 days- (1 year 7 months 9 days)
Ban appeal thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5395857.0

Other post/topics:  
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5391044.0https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5391088.0

[Bitcoin_Arena]

It's that time of the year again... and it's at least as good a time as any to reflect on both the good, and the bad; to think about how we can do better in the future; and also to... forgive. Regarding that last one, we've decided that for a limited time, we will be considering unbanning users previously banned for plagiarism.

Shouldn't this apply to other banned users too, and not just plagiarism?

For example offordscott was banned because his account was allegedly hacked and used to post malware. His account was for purposely selling mining gear, and he had started gaining trust from the community, so I see no reason why he would start using it for posting useless malware.

I believe him. He must have been a victim of a hack. He made an appeal, but up to he hasn't even received any feedback from the mods. Why do we let such good users go?

I am still looking for help with this. The ban really hurts. If there is an admin who is willing to spend the time to dig into this for me, I will be extremely grateful indeed.

[Samlucky O]

This is a welcome development to the forum. I have had many people complain of there account being ban. And i ask, is there no other way of punishing those fellow who comited the offense of plagiarism? because I know there is always a second and third chance or even more, depending on people grace. And they told me it's not like that on this forum. So I started becoming more careful as a beginner never to piaglarize. Though the law seems to be rigid or had hartend, but I think it's the only way to reduce shitppost and piaglarism and adding more value to the forum. otherwise the forum would have been literd by junks. A lawless place don't have control and people behaves anyhow. But with this second chance given I think more people will be more serious and careful not to make mistakes. Thanks to you @cyrus for the development. I know many will be relived. It's just like bringing a dead man back to life . Congratulations to ban members!! your prayers has been answered. Happy Xmas.

[_BlackStar]

I think the decision to give accounts that have been banned for plagiarism a second chance is a good one - but I'm sure it will also have its consequences. Some users who truly feel guilty about unintentional plagiarism deserve forgiveness and a second chance - but I'm not entirely sure that plagiarists who did it intentionally will also be forgiven.

This announcement will be welcomed by users who feel guilty and hope for a second chance – but of course the admin will handle it on a case by case basis. The big consequences may be - admins have to work hard to filter what is forgivable and what is not.

[dkbit98]

A ban on wearing a signature will be added, equal to at least 2 years minus however long you were banned.

Nice catch, but I hope you understand that you are going to have to work more replying to all the people who appeal  
This is not a bad idea, but I wonder if new unban second chance is going to be applied only for plagiarism cases or for anything else,
let's say if someone was talking about ''things'' that are not allowed in forum anymore, or for posting a link?

I'm guessing most of those who take this offer won't last a year before they find themselves banned again -- they are cheaters at heart and can't help themselves.

I think you are right about this, but there are probably few exceptions from this rule.
Most genuine users banned by mistake are probably gone forever, but I could be wrong.

[FatFork]

I can't say I really have an opinion on this.  I haven't come across someone who was banned for plagiarism but who I thought would actually contribute something worthwhile to the forum.  There was this one guy on our local board who appealed his ban, and if I remember right, he waited years before finally getting it overturned.  but as far as I know, he never came back to participate much after that anyway. So I kinda wonder how many previously-banned yet potentially valuable members this whole effort will actually bring back into the fold.  I guess we can hope for the best.

[Rikafip]

Username: NoorulHuda
Constructive post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=232519.msg59908487#msg59908487 (urdu)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=232519.msg59819871#msg59819871 (English)

This was really the best you could find?? Good luck with that lol.

There was this one guy on our local board who appealed his ban, and if I remember right, he waited years before finally getting it overturned.  but as far as I know, he never came back to participate much after that anyway.

Yep, after waiting for a few years and thanks to the effort of the whole local board he was finally unbanned, but it was too little too late as after so much waiting he completely lost the will to participate while before ban he was (from what I heard from the others as it was before my time) one of the most prominent members of our local board. And honestly can't blame him, as he was banned for one copied sentence that he did when he was a Jr Member (I think), just to see few years later high ranking members plagiarizing without any consequences.

[suchmoon]

Ban appeal process already exists. Most of ban appeal threads however don't even get an acknowledgment from the admins, like "hey, we reviewed your case, you will not be unbanned because x, y, and z, have a good day", or "here's a 2 year sig ban, don't make us regret it".

This seems like one of those useless things that some (or most) governments do when they have a dysfunctional bureaucratic process for some trivial thing, and instead of fixing it they slap another layer of arbitrary randomness on top of it. Someone who tried to do it the right way gets fuck all, but someone who happens to take advantage of the new loophole may get lucky.

[Mpamaegbu]

While I acknowledge OP's generosity in tempering justice with mercy and granting banned users another opportunity to prove their worth of getting back here, I'm also interested in seeing how the issue of accounts that got banned for evasion because they were connected/linked to accounts that got banned for plagiarism will be resolved.

[shahzadafzal]

I don't understand why there's so much criticism. If the administration is offering a second chance to anyone, what's wrong with that? Regardless of the ban reason, I believe giving a second chance won't harm the forum. Additionally, remember that the same admins can reapply a ban with just another click of a button.

Moreover, Cyrus has explicitly mentioned that this is not a blanket amnesty scheme.

It's that time of the year again... and it's at least as good a time as any to reflect on both the good, and the bad; to think about how we can do better in the future; and also to... forgive. Regarding that last one, we've decided that for a limited time, we will be considering unbanning users previously banned for plagiarism.

This is not a blanket amnesty. We take plagiarism very seriously. Not just any banned account will be unbanned, not all sanctions will be lifted, and we'll be watching the unbanned users like hawks.

Anyway I really appreciate and express my gratitude for giving users a second chance. It’s heartening to see the forum administration embracing the spirit of forgiveness and providing an opportunity for redemption.

To those who may criticize this decision, I’d like to pose a question: What harm is there? If users are willing to abide by the rules and requirements and contribute constructively, it could be a positive step toward fostering a more inclusive and understanding community.

Wishing everyone a joyful holiday season and a Happy 2024!

Good luck to the applicants.

[SamReomo]

If it doesn't get punished by bans, people will stop reporting it and this entire forum will be lost. There's no limit to the amount of spam a bot can create.

Well, I agree with you on that such type of text is not going to be acceptable on this forum because if the users continue posting AI generated text then there won't be many users who would put effort themselves to create posts which will ultimately end up the new information that comes from humans not from bots who mimic other humans by getting trained on their text.

I'm not in favor of AI text and I must say that there should be strict actions against it but I believe the time isn't far when it would be difficult for us humans to know that which text is generated by AI and which one is created by humans. The AI technologies aren't at their peaks especially those LLM models but surely the research is going on them at very fast rates and we may see so many new such bots implementing on social media platforms.

We should definitely have some new rules on the forum to tackle such bots as of now because in current times it's still possible to detect AI generated content but I fear that in future we may not be able to detect the text that those bots generate. I believe that good guys will still somehow find a way to protect us from the AI text generators of the future.

[Igebotz]

Ban appeal process already exists. Most of ban appeal threads however don't even get an acknowledgment from the admins, like "hey, we reviewed your case, you will not be unbanned because x, y, and z, have a good day", or "here's a 2 year sig ban, don't make us regret it".

This seems like one of those useless things that some (or most) governments do when they have a dysfunctional bureaucratic process for some trivial thing, and instead of fixing it they slap another layer of arbitrary randomness on top of it. Someone who tried to do it the right way gets fuck all, but someone who happens to take advantage of the new loophole may get lucky.

Because not every banned user filed an appeal to be unbanned, this is a fantastic opportunity for those who departed with a clear conscience and those who were wrongfully banned for a single offence.

It's not a good sign when there are more banned accounts than active users.

[Sexylizzy2813]

Always will be a welcome development but those accounts that was banned are they ready to change from doing what they did before their account was banned?
This is going to be challenging and come to think of it, what if you give some a second chance and they intend on try some of those things they did before their account was banned? I'm just saying because is one thing to say "I won't do these things again" and is another to keep to it. I believe is not only about plagiarism that got some account to be banned other things are also the cause but I hope no one regret this decision.

[Igebotz]

Always will be a welcome development but those accounts that was banned are they ready to change from doing what they did before their account was banned?
This is going to be challenging and come to think of it, what if you give some a second chance and they intend on try some of those things they did before their account was banned? I'm just saying because is one thing to say "I won't do these things again" and is another to keep to it. I believe is not only about plagiarism that got some account to be banned other things are also the cause but I hope no one regret this decision.

The second chance is only for individuals who were banned for plagiarism and not for ban evasion cheaters, and anyone who plagiarised again would be banned again. This is simple.

Santa season of Mercy!

[nutildah]

The second chance is only for individuals who were banned for plagiarism and not for ban evasion cheaters, and anyone who plagiarised again would be banned again. This is simple.

I hope you are correct; that's the way it sounded in the OP but was a bit hard to tell for sure. Because once an account is un-banned for ban evasion, what's to stop them from getting re-banned in the future when another connection is made to their old (still banned) account?

Case in point:

Username: NoorulHuda
...
Ban appeal thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5395857.0

This user claims they were banned for plagiarism but they were clearly banned for ban evasion:

Reporting Ban evasion: 1

1. gmjutt6 (Archived)
2. NoorulHuda
...