Bitcoin's privacy battle and an ominous warning to the community

[Poker Player]

whatever I have said so far against mixers was only based on Bitcointalk posts

Lie with dogs, wake up with fleas.

Digaran never ceases to amaze me. I think we already have another BenCodie case around here. So he's against mixers and has been getting paid for spamming the forum while advertising Mixero mixer in his signature? For months, I seem to remember.

A serious question - what can a mixer be used for other than obfuscate the source of the coins?

I don't know if there is another utility, but even if there was, that's the main one. The question is whether obfuscating the origin of your coins is only for illegal reasons or for very legitimate reasons, such as protecting your privacy.

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[NotATether]

A serious question - what can a mixer be used for other than obfuscate the source of the coins?

Based on my research, when they are used properly, they can prevent people from knowing how much money you have or what you're buying, so that they can't take advantage of you.

PS: There was probably some downtime on the new site, but that was caused by a misconfiguration and not by any hosting issues. But I fixed it a few minutes ago.

[BenCodie]

whatever I have said so far against mixers was only based on Bitcointalk posts

Lie with dogs, wake up with fleas.

Digaran never ceases to amaze me. I think we already have another BenCodie case around here. So he's against mixers and has been getting paid for spamming the forum while advertising Mixero mixer in his signature? For months, I seem to remember.

We can get Little Mouse to come here and comment about my signature and my beliefs in gambling. How about you ask him personally, if my disposition of the gambling industry is in line with the posts I make in that board. I am sure he will be on my side of the fence, because we all know my posts there are probably more constructive than majority of the spammers there, even whilst being in line with my values that are inverse with what makes that industry profit (exploitation of greed, lack of empathy, shady scam tactics, rigged odds, kyc privacy intrusions/fund captivity, etc - all things that exist, dont apply to all in that board, all that my participation in a sig campaign won't change) - but I'm not rehashing that conversation. There's already pages on pages in a thread somewhere else about it.

As for the rest of your post, don't compare me to digaran. No case is the same, and I am not a troll. We are not the same. It's cute how obsessed you are with directing things toward me though lol. This is what, the 3rd time you've attempted to discredit me this week?

You know, I could easily post "oh, another poker player case" in every childish thread. This is only one example of your childishness and there are many more examples of your flaws as a community member out there, I can post "another poker player case" every time something linking to your relation if you like. It won't be hard, maybe even leisurely since it'll be backed by your own posts...but, it'll be childish. I haven't stooped to this level yet as i am not child, but boy, you are making it really hard for me not to start.

[Medusah]

Their business, their rules.  This is a sign that you should move to a privacy friendly web hosting provider. 

This is also a sign that the crypto world has split in to two groups.  The ones which strive to comply with every single bullshit the government tells them to do (a few examples^[1][2]), and the crypto-ghetto which trades decentralized, mixes their coins, does not give KYC, etc..  Every day passing by and the indifferences between these two groups keep getting worse.  It will not impress me if in 10 years from now, the legitimate bitcoin users will be treated as real criminals.   

A serious question - what can a mixer be used for other than obfuscate the source of the coins?

A mixer mixes, pretty obvious.  Your question is rather:  How can obfuscating the source of your coins be used other than to accomplish x?

[1]:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5475157.0
[2]:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5471353.0

[BenCodie]

Their business, their rules.  This is a sign that you should move to a privacy friendly web hosting provider. 

This is also a sign that the crypto world has split in to two groups.  The ones which strive to comply with every single bullshit the government tells them to do (a few examples^[1][2]), and the crypto-ghetto which trades decentralized, mixes their coins, does not give KYC, etc..  Every day passing by and the indifferences between these two groups keep getting worse.  It will not impress me if in 10 years from now, the legitimate bitcoin users will be treated as real criminals.   

This was very well said. I think we are splitting into 3 groups. The first, being the over-regulators. The second, being the "new" crypto economy, web3, where seemingly all applications and developments are very enthused within all ecosystems, mostly because of how transparent the EVM is and how regulated the space already is. The third being those who care about their privacy, and sovereignty. The original users, as you eloquently described - the crypto-ghetto.

To address this:

It will not impress me if in 10 years from now, the legitimate bitcoin users will be treated as real criminals.   

I think 10 years would be ideal, maybe optimistic, it gives the correct side of the fence a chance to develop new solutions. My idea is a lot more pessimistic. I think that it could be a matter of a few to five years where privacy is completely ruled out as a suspicious activity. Especially given that most populations have seemingly written off (or submitted) this right and the fact that it should exist, though doesn't.

[dkbit98]

A serious question - what can a mixer be used for other than obfuscate the source of the coins?

It's a tool, same like any other tool.
I don't think you (or anyone else) are going around asking other people what can a knife be used for other than for putting peanut butter on piece of bread.
But hey, nothing can surprise me after observing strange behavior from bunch of people in last few years.

[ibminer]

A serious question - what can a mixer be used for other than obfuscate the source of the coins?

I asked ChatGPT a similar question about legal uses for mixers, answer is below.  

I could see myself falling into the various examples based on scenarios I could be in, from a business or personal perspective... but, of course, there are also bad things they can be used for, and many things in life could be described in a similar fashion.

Maybe another hornet's nest was kicked when I started reading more reports about various terrorists groups having a percentage of funds in crypto to help their various agendas, wars, and genocides. Not something I've enjoyed reading, especially knowing it is likely a very small % involved in Bitcoin's ecosystem. Of course, I also don't enjoy reading about how my government seemingly ends up helping to fund the same groups through various deals and aid/peace campaigns either... which never seem to work out.


ChatGPT:

A crypto coin mixer, also known as a cryptocurrency mixer or tumbler, is a service that mixes and anonymizes transactions, making it more challenging to trace the origin of funds. While the primary purpose of coin mixers is often associated with privacy and anonymity, there are legal and legitimate use cases for these services. Here are some examples:

Privacy Protection:
Individuals may use coin mixers to enhance the privacy of their financial transactions. This is particularly relevant in a world where financial transactions are increasingly digital and can be traced.

Security Measures:
Users might employ coin mixers to add an extra layer of security to their cryptocurrency transactions. By making it more difficult to trace transactions, individuals can reduce the risk of targeted attacks or theft.

Business Transactions:
Businesses may use coin mixers to protect sensitive financial information. This can be especially relevant for companies engaged in international transactions or those dealing with competitors.

Avoiding Profiling:
Some users may want to avoid being profiled based on their spending habits. Coin mixers can help break the link between a user's identity and their transaction history.

Preventing Doxxing:
Individuals who are concerned about doxxing (having their private information publicly disclosed) might use coin mixers to make it more difficult for malicious actors to link their cryptocurrency transactions to their real-world identity.
It's essential to note that while these are legal use cases, the regulatory landscape surrounding cryptocurrency is continually evolving, and the legality of certain activities may vary by jurisdiction. Users should be aware of and comply with the legal requirements in their respective regions to ensure they are using coin mixers within the bounds of the law. Additionally, some jurisdictions may impose restrictions or regulations on the use of coin mixers, so users should stay informed about the legal environment in their area.