How to buy Tons of Bitcoins and Drop the Price

[phelix]

1. Buy lots of BTC from a large holders via a broker a price of "Bitstamp + 10"
2. Dump 10% of it on Bitstamp --> Price goes down
3. Rinse and repeat

I have a feeling it is happening right now.

[escrow.ms]

1. Buy lots of BTC from a large holders via a broker a price of "Bitstamp + 10"
2. Dump 10% of it on Bitstamp --> Price goes down
3. Rinse and repeat

I have a feeling it is happening right now.

You forgot to add one point,  "Buy coins back when price goes down."

[phelix]

1. Buy lots of BTC from a large holders via a broker a price of "Bitstamp + 10"
2. Dump 10% of it on Bitstamp --> Price goes down
3. Rinse and repeat

I have a feeling it is happening right now.

You forgot to add one point,  "Buy coins back when price goes down."

Well, that is 1.) 

[anu]

1. Buy lots of BTC from a large holders via a broker a price of "Bitstamp + 10"
2. Dump 10% of it on Bitstamp --> Price goes down
3. Rinse and repeat

I have a feeling it is happening right now.

Sounds like a viable strategy to make use of the fact that there are some early adopters with large stashes. Any evidence that this is happening?

[billyjoeallen]

Small problem. Large holders know that market price is currently under the cost of mining. Miners, old holders don't sell under those conditions.

Your strategy loses money unless you know you can buy back in lower. That is less certain the lower market price goes. Also, you could drive the whole market into a prolongued downtrend that would take years to break even. You can sheer a sheep many times, but skin him only once.

[podyx]

[anu]

Small problem. Large holders know that market price is currently under the cost of mining. Miners, old holders don't sell under those conditions.

Your strategy loses money unless you know you can buy back in lower. That is less certain the lower market price goes. Also, you could drive the whole market into a prolongued downtrend that would take years to break even. You can sheer a sheep many times, but skin him only once.

I think you misunderstand the idea. This is about how to buy very large sums (BTC 100,000+) without driving the price up, in fact, driving the price down. For example someone selling 5000 Bitcoin @ 550 OTC thinks he gets a good deal. 500 of these coins can then be used to drive the price to 480 so the next seller of 5000 would get a price of only $528. OTOH if you would buy 100,000 at Bitstamp, the price would go to $800 or higher.

[Peter R]

1. Buy lots of BTC from a large holders via a broker a price of "Bitstamp + 10"
2. Dump 10% of it on Bitstamp --> Price goes down
3. Rinse and repeat

I have a feeling it is happening right now.

I think this would work until the large holders (EAs) selling at "Bitstamp + 10" get wise.  If this is true, I expect we should see some very large market buys by the current dumpers once they've accumulated their hoard.  With mark-to-market accounting, these large holders can possibly increase their mark-to-market net worth by more than the number of dollars used to later pump the price.  In other words, once they've accumulated their hoard, they want slippage.  

Rinse and repeat and the price keeps ratcheting up like a staircase.  

[dropt]

Small problem. Large holders know that market price is currently under the cost of mining. Miners, old holders don't sell under those conditions.

Your strategy loses money unless you know you can buy back in lower. That is less certain the lower market price goes. Also, you could drive the whole market into a prolongued downtrend that would take years to break even. You can sheer a sheep many times, but skin him only once.

Slight problem with your assumption.   Cost per coin when mining is nowhere near the current market rate.

[aminorex]

Small problem. Large holders know that market price is currently under the cost of mining. Miners, old holders don't sell under those conditions.

Your strategy loses money unless you know you can buy back in lower. That is less certain the lower market price goes. Also, you could drive the whole market into a prolongued downtrend that would take years to break even. You can sheer a sheep many times, but skin him only once.

Slight problem with your assumption.   Cost per coin when mining is nowhere near the current market rate.

You keep saying that, but I am disbelieving you.  Existing miners don't really matter.  What matters is marginal supply, and that is determined by a miner starting today.  They face exponential difficulty raises.  It costs 3500 USD to generate 1 btc/wk at retail pricing, and the output degrades by a factor of 1.016 every day.  If you've already paid for your hardware, yes, you can sell for the cost of electricity.  But that's (1) foolish and (2) not a significant fraction of the mined supply.  Most hashing power is new hashing power, which has not paid for itself, and may never pay for itself unless the price is over $1000/coin.

Bottom line:  Most of the mined coins each day are being awarded to people who cannot sell without a loss below $1000.

[oda.krell]

Small problem. Large holders know that market price is currently under the cost of mining. Miners, old holders don't sell under those conditions.

Your strategy loses money unless you know you can buy back in lower. That is less certain the lower market price goes. Also, you could drive the whole market into a prolongued downtrend that would take years to break even. You can sheer a sheep many times, but skin him only once.

Slight problem with your assumption.   Cost per coin when mining is nowhere near the current market rate.

You keep saying that, but I am disbelieving you.  Existing miners don't really matter.  What matters is marginal supply, and that is determined by a miner starting today.  They face exponential difficulty raises.  It costs 3500 USD to generate 1 btc/wk at retail pricing, and the output degrades by a factor of 1.016 every day.  If you've already paid for your hardware, yes, you can sell for the cost of electricity.  But that's (1) foolish and (2) not a significant fraction of the mined supply.  Most hashing power is new hashing power, which has not paid for itself, and may never pay for itself unless the price is over $1000/coin.

Bottom line:  Most of the mined coins each day are being awarded to people who cannot sell without a loss below $1000.

I think it's safe to say that big mining operations (> 1 petahash) operate on a substantially lower cost basis per coin than your quote.

[Bit_Happy]

We are in a Bear cycle, so this type of stunt isn't needed.
Hopefully soon the bottom will be set.

[seleme]

We are in a Bear cycle, so this type of stunt isn't needed.
Hopefully soon the bottom will be set.

It is if you want huge number of coins. No bear market could provide you with the amounts mentioned in this thread.

I don't know if this is being done but it's interesting theory and idea.

[Elwar]

That is the opposite of what I do.

Go to Walmart and buy a high priced item using my gyft gift card (paid for with bitcoins) which gives me a 3% discount.

Return the item and get 100% cash back.

Then use that cash to buy bitcoins on Bitstamp driving the price UP!

rinse and repeat

[Bit_Happy]

Why blame unproven "manipulation" for natural human cycles of emotion?

...No bear market could provide you with the amounts mentioned in this thread....

Yes, some Bear markets certainly can.
On high volume Bear market days Gox used to do a 24 hour volume of 125,000 BTC to even 250,000+ .
Just place various orders at low prices and watch the market fall.*
*Of course trading can be difficult and it's dangerous to keep huge amounts of money on exchanges, but that is a different subject.

[seleme]

Why blame unproven "manipulation" for natural human cycles of emotion?

...No bear market could provide you with the amounts mentioned in this thread....

Yes, some Bear markets certainly can.
On high volume Bear market days Gox used to do a 24 hour volume of 125,000 BTC to even 250,000+ .
Just place various orders at low prices and watch the market fall.*
*Of course trading can be difficult and it's dangerous to keep huge amounts of money on exchanges, but that is a different subject.

Yes, but those 150-200 000 BTC were bought by hundreds of people, not one, two or 3 entities.

Someone here mentioned potential 100k BTC deal, you can't buy that easy on the exchange.

[Bit_Happy]

Why blame unproven "manipulation" for natural human cycles of emotion?

...No bear market could provide you with the amounts mentioned in this thread....

Yes, some Bear markets certainly can.
On high volume Bear market days Gox used to do a 24 hour volume of 125,000 BTC to even 250,000+ .
Just place various orders at low prices and watch the market fall.*
*Of course trading can be difficult and it's dangerous to keep huge amounts of money on exchanges, but that is a different subject.

Yes, but those 150-200 000 BTC were bought by hundreds of people, not one, two or 3 entities.

Someone here mentioned potential 100k BTC deal, you can't buy that easy on the exchange.

Agreed.
Many things are not easy.
1) In a down trend you do not need "excess manipulation" to get good prices.
2) On a dramatic day with 250,000+ volume one person (with orders at several prices) could buy 100,000+ as the market falls.


I know there are many bots, whales and attempts at market manipulation.
Sometimes Usually the real explanation is Greed vs Fear.

[Peter R]

That is the opposite of what I do.

Go to Walmart and buy a high priced item using my gyft gift card (paid for with bitcoins) which gives me a 3% discount.

Return the item and get 100% cash back.

Then use that cash to buy bitcoins on Bitstamp driving the price UP!

rinse and repeat

Wait a second.  Does that actually work?  You can arbitrage using the Gyft loyalty discount?  That's pretty funny. 

[seleme]

Why blame unproven "manipulation" for natural human cycles of emotion?

...No bear market could provide you with the amounts mentioned in this thread....

Yes, some Bear markets certainly can.
On high volume Bear market days Gox used to do a 24 hour volume of 125,000 BTC to even 250,000+ .
Just place various orders at low prices and watch the market fall.*
*Of course trading can be difficult and it's dangerous to keep huge amounts of money on exchanges, but that is a different subject.

Yes, but those 150-200 000 BTC were bought by hundreds of people, not one, two or 3 entities.

Someone here mentioned potential 100k BTC deal, you can't buy that easy on the exchange.

Agreed.
Many things are not easy.
1) In a down trend you do not need "excess manipulation" to get good prices.
2) On a dramatic day with 250,000+ volume one person (with orders at several prices) could buy 100,000+ as the market falls.


I know there are many bots, whales and attempts at market manipulation.
Sometimes Usually the real explanation is Greed vs Fear.

But it's much better on the way OP suggests. You get them easy at one price, usually better than current exchange price for such quantity. then you sell some at current exchange rate and rebuy lower, than buy the another bunch of the exchange.

Yeah, this is probably fantasy as I doubt anyone is buying that amounts at this point but if it would be required to buy let's say million coins than it's nice way to make better average in faster frame of time.

[durrrr]

100,000 bitcoins would be 5million dollars do you think people really put that much on an exchange if they do they r foolish and we'll shouldn't have 5m