So what is an easy way to have LN for a miner. And others.

[philipma1957]

 I have too much to do in my life I do not want to be bother to set up an LN node or a new wallet.

First off if you mine you can do this for free on the correct mining services.

I am going to create a thread that shows what places will offer you LN

I will only show a service I used with success.

MIND YOU ANY SERVICE CAN CLAIM WE GOT HACKED AND FUCK YOU HARD

So far as a miner on more than 1 pool or service only nicehash is offering free easy peasy LN

THE catch is simple they can go bust and screw you.

SO using nicehash is for small amounts of btc do not think  you are going to carry $1000's in your nicehash wallet.

other catch  KYC

But here goes today I did my first ever LN send using my nicehash wallet which I fill via mining.

BTW you can fill your nicehash wallet by mining by an LN deposit or by a standard but costly deposit on regular block chain.




I don't want this to seem like a nicehash ad as I am trying to list three or four ways to access


changing this a bit = non-custodial LN sending methods.

the accounts are not self custody (you do not have the keys)

this to me means the accounts are non-custodial (meaning you do not have the keys)

all this means is what you keep on nicehash  can be stolen as nicehash hold the keys.

[philipma1957]

spacer.   edit need to remove the [banned mixer] in that image. give me a minute

I sent 53 usd worth of btc for next to nothing look below

[philipma1957]

Spacer

I will be filling this in with every place I can find that offers an easy to use LN service.


I will be doing only non custody LN wallets.


I will test and verify they work.

BUT always remember any of them could be Hacked and take your coins.


So basically these are for small use coins.

Ie hodl 1 btc in a cold wallet

and under 0.05 btc in a service like nicehash.


I think all that I find may be kya but you may have the service already and not realize how easy it is to use LN for a small send.








Do not hold all you coins in these LN wallets


under 10% no more

[philipma1957]

spacer I will test my kraken exchange next.

[philipma1957]

first of all
the coins in your LN channel are limited to how much your channel locked and how much you already spent to then have "credit" to then get returned
the coins in your LN partner has locked is limited to their outbound(your inbound) balance

secondly
your channel with nicehash is not owing nicehash anything so they cant reimburse you 0.00128 to then free up your balance for you to be "non custodial" of the 0.00128014..
however you have inbound balance(unsettled so not yours) from nicehash's channel with you, whom commits to owing you balance and you can request using that balance be sent around their route to pay for some giftcard.
soo those funds are still in nicehash lock.. meaning they are in custody of it

think about it..
bi directional channels

philipma 0.001-> nicehash 0
                       -> philipma 0.00050000 (minus 0.0005 for fee to close session eventually)
^your channel you set up to be on LN ^ you own nobody anything and you have control of your funds, minus close session (onchain fee)

nicehashpool 6.25 -> nicehash00 0.05                   nicehash3B 0.05  -> philipma1957 0.00128014
                           -> nicehash01 0.05                                             -> nicehashpool  0.04821986 (minus 0.0005 for closing fee)
                           -> nicehash02 0.05
                           -> ....
                           -> nicehash7D 0.05
^their channels they set up to be on LN ^ they owe you 0.00128014


they have balance in their control OWING you which you then request they take back if they use another channel they have to pay cygan what they owe you
so your owed funds are in THEIR custody but you then spent that credit to buy giftcard

it would only be YOUR custody if you put your value into your keys and then you spent the balance, to a partner.. for them to return balance to you
or if from your other channels you already spent with to someone else previously, and they routed payment via that owed receiver so that you are reimbursed via them to the allow you to have free'd up balance/funds in your channel
but those coins in your channel are not mined coins but routed coins returned/re allocated back into your 'change address'

learn how routes, inbound/outbound balance, routes and channels work.

franky1 I do not understand this explanation in the least bit.

I have clearly said these are non custody and you can get fucked at any minute. You have funds there.  I quoted your post and then deleted the original. As I simply do not understand your point.


I will say to all again do not keep a lot of funds in any of my suggestions.

my suggestions are all non- custody. ie you can lose everything that is in them.

these are a small change purse for people.

In my case on nicehash I mine 1000-2000 worth of kawpow monthly  which auto verts to BTC

I empty the wallet once a month and distribute the coins to 4 people.

So my balance goes from 0 to 2000 $ of BTC monthly.

I fully recognize NICE hash can say we are hacked and I lose 0-2000 usd worth of BTC. as this is a non custody account.

edit (I have no custody as I have no keys thus non-custody)


the 0-2000 a month is a small part of the funds I handle

I do not advise anyone to put more than 10% of funds in nice hash.


But if you need heat and want to do kyc with nice hash the added bonus is you can use it LN wallet easy peasy.

the s19 makes  like $10.00 a day and it costs 75 watts a day so. at 12 cent power it is break even but if you send it to a nice hash account all of a sudden you have money to send at low cost.

the send I did above was. 0.00000014 btc that is cheap.

[franky1]

first of all those coins are not in YOUR SELF CUSTODY
but they are in a custodians(nicehash/channel partner) custody

so dont use the word "non custody" as it confuses people to think the funds are not in a custodians control
EG blockchain.info wallet is non custody because they do own own the private keys
however nicehasn controls the private keys of the locked balance.. see the difference

use the term "non-self custody" there is a difference

also YOU dont empty wallet. you request THEY close their channel to onchain settle debt with you. or you request to use their credit to you via other routes to spend your owed credit

but they way your wrote your advert of nicehash is as if you are in control and they dont have custody. when you used particular buzzwords

EG
"i empty wallet" should be "i request close session/withdrawal"
"so my balance" should be "so balance owed to me"
"non custody" should be "non self custody"
"you have funds there" " they have funds credited to you"

you wrote too many "i" and "my" and hinted there was no custodian.. when actually there is a custodian and that custodian is not you, you have no control

first of all
the coins in your LN channel are limited to how much your channel locked and how much you already spent to then have "credit" to then get returned
the coins in your LN partner has locked is limited to their outbound(your inbound) balance

secondly
your channel with nicehash is not owing nicehash anything so they cant reimburse you 0.00128 to then free up your balance for you to be "non custodial" of the 0.00128014..
however you have inbound balance(unsettled so not yours) from nicehash's channel with you, whom commits to owing you balance and you can request using that balance be sent around their route to pay for some giftcard.
soo those funds are still in nicehash lock.. meaning they are in custody of it

think about it..
bi directional channels

philipma 0.001-> nicehash 0
                       -> philipma 0.00050000 (minus 0.0005 for fee to close session eventually)
^your channel you set up to be on LN ^ you own nobody anything and you have control of your funds, minus close session (onchain fee)

nicehashpool 6.25 -> nicehash00 0.05                   nicehash3B 0.05  -> philipma1957 0.00128014
                           -> nicehash01 0.05                                             -> nicehashpool  0.04821986 (minus 0.0005 for closing fee)
                           -> nicehash02 0.05
                           -> ....
                           -> nicehash7D 0.05
^their channels they set up to be on LN ^ they owe you 0.00128014


they have balance in their control OWING you which you then request they take back if they use another channel they have to pay cygan what they owe you
so your owed funds are in THEIR custody but you then spent that credit to buy giftcard

it would only be YOUR custody if you put your value into your keys and then you spent the balance, to a partner.. for them to return balance to you
or if from your other channels you already spent with to someone else previously, and they routed payment via that owed receiver so that you are reimbursed via them to the allow you to have free'd up balance/funds in your channel
but those coins in your channel are not mined coins but routed coins returned/re allocated back into your 'change address'

learn how routes, inbound/outbound balance, routes and channels work.

[dkbit98]

How about trying non-custodial Lightning Node running on your mobile device with Breez Mobile wallet?
When you first open wallet it does say it's a beta software and there is a risk of losing funds, but I saw something like this is also being worked by Bitbox hardware wallet.
https://breez.technology/
https://bitbox.swiss/blog/bringing-lightning-to-the-bitboxapp/

Please use this at your own risk, easy way is not always the best way

[philipma1957]

At dkbit98 too hard or difficult.

I want this to be easy peasy.

You get LN access with no work so to speak.

This is what the thread is about.


How about trying non-custodial Lightning Node running on your mobile device with Breez Mobile wallet?
When you first open wallet it does say it's a beta software and there is a risk of losing funds, but I saw something like this is also being worked by Bitbox hardware wallet.
https://breez.technology/
https://bitbox.swiss/blog/bringing-lightning-to-the-bitboxapp/

Please use this at your own risk, easy way is not always the best way Wink

first of all those coins are not in YOUR SELF CUSTODY
but they are in a custodians(nicehash/channel partner) custody

so dont use the word "non custody" as it confuses people to think the funds are not in a custodians control
EG blockchain.info wallet is non custody because they do own own the private keys
however nicehasn controls the private keys of the locked balance.. see the difference

use the term "non-self custody" there is a difference

also YOU dont empty wallet. you request THEY close their channel to onchain settle debt with you. or you request to use their credit to you via other routes to spend your owed credit

but they way your wrote your advert of nicehash is as if you are in control and they dont have custody. when you used particular buzzwords

EG
"i empty wallet" should be "i request close session/withdrawal"
"so my balance" should be "so balance owed to me"
"non custody" should be "non self custody"
"you have funds there" " they have funds credited to you"

you wrote too many "i" and "my" and hinted there was no custodian.. when actually there is a custodian and that custodian is not you, you have no control

first of all
the coins in your LN channel are limited to how much your channel locked and how much you already spent to then have "credit" to then get returned
the coins in your LN partner has locked is limited to their outbound(your inbound) balance

secondly
your channel with nicehash is not owing nicehash anything so they cant reimburse you 0.00128 to then free up your balance for you to be "non custodial" of the 0.00128014..
however you have inbound balance(unsettled so not yours) from nicehash's channel with you, whom commits to owing you balance and you can request using that balance be sent around their route to pay for some giftcard.
soo those funds are still in nicehash lock.. meaning they are in custody of it

think about it..
bi directional channels

philipma 0.001-> nicehash 0
                       -> philipma 0.00050000 (minus 0.0005 for fee to close session eventually)
^your channel you set up to be on LN ^ you own nobody anything and you have control of your funds, minus close session (onchain fee)

nicehashpool 6.25 -> nicehash00 0.05                   nicehash3B 0.05  -> philipma1957 0.00128014
                           -> nicehash01 0.05                                             -> nicehashpool  0.04821986 (minus 0.0005 for closing fee)
                           -> nicehash02 0.05
                           -> ....
                           -> nicehash7D 0.05
^their channels they set up to be on LN ^ they owe you 0.00128014


they have balance in their control OWING you which you then request they take back if they use another channel they have to pay cygan what they owe you
so your owed funds are in THEIR custody but you then spent that credit to buy giftcard

it would only be YOUR custody if you put your value into your keys and then you spent the balance, to a partner.. for them to return balance to you
or if from your other channels you already spent with to someone else previously, and they routed payment via that owed receiver so that you are reimbursed via them to the allow you to have free'd up balance/funds in your channel
but those coins in your channel are not mined coins but routed coins returned/re allocated back into your 'change address'

learn how routes, inbound/outbound balance, routes and channels work.

Fair point  I will alter that.

but I would like to think that this statement is fairly clear:

MIND YOU ANY SERVICE CAN CLAIM WE GOT HACKED AND FUCK YOU HARD

[philipma1957]

so all funds in kraken are subject to kraken's control. they could be frozen or stolen.
not in my custody I do not have the keys so I call this a none custody account.


So next is using kraken.com I am usa based. I am allowed to use them and have done full KYC with them.

I keep low funds with them under $1000 at all times.

Here is a set of screen shots done as I attempted to withdraw from kraken into nicehash.

via LN.

[joker_josue]

Thank you philipma1957 for bringing attention to this way of obtaining balance on an LN channel.
Personally, I'm still not a fan of LN, I don't think it's something mini-manner viable yet, and I think it's too complicated. Anyway, maybe it's my lack of knowledge on the subject that I'm still talking about.

I will pay attention to your comments on this topic.

I recently set up a Bitcoin node again, with the aim of trying to set up an LN channel. But, as long as there isn't a minimally viable solution in Windows, I shouldn't set up this channel. Therefore, an analysis of the various options at this point will be very interesting to observe.

[philipma1957]

as you can see on kraken it is somewhat harder than nice hash fourth,fifth,sixth, seven pages and funds are not moved at all

[philipma1957]

At this point I stopped as I got distracted by “real” life.

My dementia suffering bro-in-law causing issues I watch him on ring as I type and he is on the phone with a  scammer .  I will be back later.

I did the withdrawal and it did  appear in the nicehash wallet


I moved 0.0015 from kraken to nicehash at a low cost of 0.00000014


screen shots tomorrow


nicehash has a 1.5 btc max limit

not sure what kraken has.


nicehash is easier to send LN

will show screen shots of this in the morning as it takes time to edit them a bit.

[joker_josue]

I didn't understand the idea, can you send bitcoin from Kraken to Nicehash LN?
And after Nicehash LN sends it to your LN wallet? And that?

Is the goal to transfer bitcoin with low fees to the LN layer?

[franky1]

I moved 0.0015 from kraken to nicehash at a low cost of 0.00000014

and it has begun
all the LN affiliate marketers promoting LN promising fees below 1sat "coz LN does balance in non bitcoin accepting msat"
are now showing their real end goal. force bitcoin fee's up so they can push LN fee's up

gone are the days of 0.0000000000001 fee's and already LN users are being charged multiple sats per payment
soon enough they will become 1% of payment amount

all for the simple fact that corporations couldnt take middlemen fee's from bitcoin., they did try "nodes should be paid for being nodes"
 so they made another network to take middlemen fee's using the bait and switch game of "cheaper then bitcoin"

if you care to wonder why fee's on bitcoin are high, look at the corporations and their idiot advertisers that dont own asics or mining pools but keep shouting that bitcoin needs to pay higher fee's. look how they try to promote that people should give up using bitcoin and try their other network locking them into staying live on another network for months but having bitcoin fee's to expensive to ever settle up and actually never own btc

[philipma1957]

I moved 0.0015 from kraken to nicehash at a low cost of 0.00000014

and it has begun
all the LN affiliate marketers promoting LN promising fees below 1sat "coz LN does balance in non bitcoin accepting msat"
are now showing their real end goal. force bitcoin fee's up so they can push LN fee's up

gone are the days of 0.0000000000001 fee's and already LN users are being charged multiple sats per payment
soon enough they will become 1% of payment amount

all for the simple fact that corporations couldnt take middlemen fee's from bitcoin., they did try "nodes should be paid for being nodes"
 so they made another network to take middlemen fee's using the bait and switch game of "cheaper then bitcoin"

if you care to wonder why fee's on bitcoin are high, look at the corporations and their idiot advertisers that dont own asics or mining pools but keep shouting that bitcoin needs to pay higher fee's. look how they try to promote that people should give up using bitcoin and try their other network locking them into staying live on another network for months but having bitcoin fee's to expensive to ever settle up and actually never own btc

Actually

I can list 5 groups that want the high fees.
and I can list 5 ways to drive fees to 1-3 btc a block

1) Scrypt merge mined LTC and Doge have a vested interest in high fees for BTC why because they have low fees and should get more business from high BTC fees.
2) Major miners and pools like foundry are looking at 6.25 reward dropping to 3.125 reward.  And they clearly want fees to be over 2 coins per block.
3) people running LN nodes Nicehash is an example as I have shown
4) kraken gains by this as they are a bit harder to use but not so bad.
5) all taxing governments want you to do what I am showing as it is all KYC

1) scrypt whales/miners can toss low price tx's at no cost why is that they never clear. So send 0.00000200 btc with a 3 sat fee true cost zero and the mempool stays fully clogged at the 1 to 3 sat level.

2) major btc miner /pool foundry which is a hidden pool as you need over 20ph to join it. make 48 blocks a day.  So down clock from 48 to 40 for 5 days at beginning of a 14 day diff period.    you lose 5 x 8 = 40 blocks right now that is 40 x 6.25 = 250 coins but in 4 months that is 125 coins

so pay 250 coins for 5 days. fees go to 3btc due to less blocks  getting made up 2 coins a block next 9 days overclock and make 50 blocks a  day so 2 x 50 x 9 = 900 extra fees in coins.  if you pay 250 coins to make 900 seems good but the risk is you do not raise fees enough with the 5 days of under clocking.
but when the ½ ing happens you pay 125 coins to raise the fees 900 coins same profit ½ the risk.


your way to combat it is LN or LTC+ DOGE sends for small amounts.
Look If I send 1 btc to Tesla to buy a truck I do not care if I pay 100 dollars in fees. so big sends are okay


Now all of the above post is off topic.  It is the under lying set of reasons to push people into LN and or LTC/DOGE

my thread here is for miners and traders and spenders of BTC.

if you buy and hodl it is also good for you.

here is why.

take kraken for a DCA GUY  that wants to get coins off and into a wallet.

Send cash to kraken buy BTC and send it whenever you want to your own wallet that does LN like electrum.  That will be covered in another post when I show what wallets will give you LN without a ton of insane work.


So for me having nicehash and kraken has a money value but causes risk for that value.

I can mine all the gear to nicehash send it to kraken often at next to no cost then send it to myself and partners electrum ln wallets.

It is work to do it daily or even weekly but it is too much mining earnings too do it monthly.

I do it every 10 days. which is still a lot of work.


I do see a side effect here for a guy that wants to mine and is willing to do KYC he can mine to nicehash and have a working LN service. which if fees are high and he does a lot of sends has quite a value.  So an s19 is earning about 130% of a block that is a reflection of the high fees.

[franky1]

Actually

I can list 5 groups that want the high fees.
and I can list 5 ways to drive fees to 1-3 btc a block

1) Scrypt merge mined LTC and Doge have a vested interest in high fees for BTC why because they have low fees and should get more business from high BTC fees.
2) Major miners and pools like foundry are looking at 6.25 reward dropping to 3.125 reward.  And they clearly want fees to be over 2 coins per block.
3) people running LN nodes Nicehash is an example as I have shown
4) kraken gains by this as they are a bit harder to use but not so bad.
5) all taxing governments want you to do what I am showing as it is all KYC

1. those altcoins have been round for years. dont blame them for the latest promotions trying to trigger people to move over to LN
2. asic miners dont choose fee's they just hash.. they care more for market price to deflate to be worth more fiat per coin.. the fee is not the subsidy its just a side bonus
5 governments are not causing bitcoin fee mania

every time there is a halving IDIOTS!!! think its tim to pay stupid excess fee's to pools
pools ran fine when the market was at $17k per coin. working fine at $34k per coin and working fine at $42k+ per coin. all while the reward is still 6.25btc.. so dont blame the halving either

when the halving happens the fiat market price takes care of it. we dont need to worry abut fee income for many more halvings

the real reasons for wanting high fees is the silly idiots that cant make money using bitcoin the traditional way o have to scam their way into taking middlemen fee's promoting crappy stuff as the next big thing

[philipma1957]

Actually

I can list 5 groups that want the high fees.
and I can list 5 ways to drive fees to 1-3 btc a block

1) Scrypt merge mined LTC and Doge have a vested interest in high fees for BTC why because they have low fees and should get more business from high BTC fees.
2) Major miners and pools like foundry are looking at 6.25 reward dropping to 3.125 reward.  And they clearly want fees to be over 2 coins per block.
3) people running LN nodes Nicehash is an example as I have shown
4) kraken gains by this as they are a bit harder to use but not so bad.
5) all taxing governments want you to do what I am showing as it is all KYC

1. those altcoins have been round for years. dont blame them for the latest promotions trying to trigger people to move over to LN
2. asic miners dont choose fee's they just hash.. they care more for market price to deflate to be worth more fiat per coin.. the fee is not the subsidy its just a side bonus
5 governments are not causing bitcoin fee mania

every time there is a halving IDIOTS!!! think its tim to pay stupid excess fee's to pools
pools ran fine when the market was at $17k per coin. working fine at $34k per coin and working fine at $42k+ per coin. all while the reward is still 6.25btc.. so dont blame the halving either

when the halving happens the fiat market price takes care of it. we dont need to worry abut fee income for many more halvings

the real reasons for wanting high fees is the silly idiots that cant make money using bitcoin the traditional way o have to scam their way into taking middlemen fee's promoting crappy stuff as the next big thing

Except we are heading in the wrong direction on the thread.

Back to kraken LN send was hard to do.

I did 7 steps above. and did not know what to do when the 7th step showed up.

But when I paid with nicehash the requestor  sent me a long ass format address . SO I went nicehash I realize I had to ask kraken what I wanted.







went to nicehash wallet picked deposit picked LN and generated a long code





so step 9 below not done.




step 10 approve  an email from your kraken account



 
"Confirm your new withdrawal address
 

 
A new withdrawal address was just added to your account. Check the details below and confirm it within the next 60 minutes only if you recognize it.
 
Location
United States
IP Address
**.***.***.***
 
Keep in mind that approving withdrawal addresses you don't recognize can put your funds at risk.
 
Confirm address
 

Didn't add this new address?
 
In this case, your account might be at high risk and you should Contact our Support team immediately."



step 11 for a first time only (I think)





step 12

[philipma1957]

I went to double post to help loading as lots of photos.

step 13  close to done  the address invoice matches the amounts match






step 14 you get a new email from kraken

   
   
 
"You made a new withdrawal
 

 
Your recent withdrawal to the lighting test address is now being processed.
 
The processing time for your withdrawal depends on the currency and withdrawal method you chose.
 
The request came from this source:
 
Location
United States
IP Address
xx.xxx.xxx.xxx
 

Didn't request a withdrawal?
 
In this case, your account might be at risk. Follow these steps immediately:
 
Access your account and change your password.
 
Contact our Support team. We'll check your account for any suspicious activity. "



Step 15

Last step !  go back to nicehash  check for the deposit . yeah it is there and it cleared quickly cost was dirt cheap



Upside

This helps my mining business > I can move the nicehash mining funds to kraken dirt cheap and cash for mining bills.

Down Side

I do not control nicehash or kraken funds ------ freezes and theft is possible.


My coinbase account does not do LN
And I am not sure about binance.us

since I have them both I will figure out what they can do.

I also will need to play with electrum.

[DaveF]

What about using muun for the LN wallet? https://muun.com/
You can send funds there and then use a service like robosats to cash out. robosats.com

No KYC or anything else.

-Dave

[philipma1957]

What about using muun for the LN wallet? https://muun.com/
You can send funds there and then use a service like robosats to cash out. robosats.com

No KYC or anything else.

-Dave

Well kraken is a pain in the ass.

Nicehash is not bad and I am mining 1000 to 2000 a month into it every month.

I empty it at the end on the month. For me personally having the two is enough.

But I have an electrum I can show that here. Even if it is ten or more steps. It is self custody.

once I do the electrum. I will look into munn and robosats.

This thread will likely have legs as I do not see us under 50 sats a byte for a long time.

the transaction count for 100 sats is over 40000 so another day of high fees is on us.