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Author Topic: So what is an easy way to have LN for a miner. And others.  (Read 384 times)
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December 20, 2023, 10:46:46 PM
Merited by Pmalek (2), JayJuanGee (1)
 #21

Congrats on learning to use the lightning network.  It is currently Bitcoin's best scaling layer.  And it works fairly well nowadays.  Here are some small tips.

1.  Several have mentioned Breez.  You do not have to go to the trouble of running a node (though breez actually does run one on your phone).  Breez works well, and is at least as easy as the things you have done so far.  You just have to let it update to the network, then you can send it lightning transactions ad YOU actually hold the sats.

2.  If you have a need to trade into or out of BTC/lightning/Liquid this is a good little non custodial exchange with great prices:  https://boltz.exchange/

3.  Wallet of Satoshi.  It is custodial, but it is a great way to get used to doing lightning to and from your phone and gives you a lightning address.  Mine is cleanlisa67@walletofsatoshi.com.  Sending to and from a lightning address is as easy as using email.

4.  coinos.io (and classic.coinos.io)  are great online custodial wallets with the ability to change from LN/BTC/Liquid.


Best of luck experimemting with lightning.  It is the future.  Don;t listen to franky, he is always mad.
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December 20, 2023, 11:18:53 PM
Merited by JayJuanGee (1)
 #22

Oh.  Also Fillippone's "Lightning Observer" thread is worth the time if you decide to fall all the way down the rabbit hole.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5348270.0

And one last thing.  I have used every lightning network wallet that has ever been made (well... probably?) and I have also run both major lightning network nodes (LND and CL) since 2019.  I know the stuff inside and out.  I have even recovered nodes that have crahsed and burned due to hardware failure.  I am glad to help or consult with you on any level needed if you have any questions or curiosities.   Here or by PM, or SMS or even a phone call (though I hate phones). 

And I am not trying to suggest you run a node or do anything more than just use the lightning network in the way best for you.  I believe fees are going to follow a trajectory much like the price and hashrate has.  So doing mining as you do getting used to layer 2 strategies is going to become more and more important. 

I am also no slouch when it comes to Liquid, although neither are you since it is just Bitcoin's codebase (with part of Monero's privacy).

Anyway... do not hesitate.
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December 21, 2023, 01:32:19 AM
 #23

And I am not trying to suggest you run a node or do anything more than just use the lightning network in the way best for you.  I believe fees are going to follow a trajectory much like the price and hashrate has.  So doing mining as you do getting used to layer 2 strategies is going to become more and more important.  

I apologize for the offtopic, but do you know of any way to run node LN on Windows? I've been looking and haven't found anything that I find interesting.


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December 21, 2023, 01:58:12 AM
Last edit: December 21, 2023, 02:08:20 AM by franky1
 #24

l have mentioned Breez.  You do not have to go to the trouble of running a node (though breez actually does run one on your phone).  Breez works well, and is at least as easy as the things you have done so far.  You just have to let it update to the network, then you can send it lightning transactions ad YOU actually hold the sats.

really??

No channel management: zero-conf channels are created on the fly

Breez seamlessly opens channels as needed on-the-fly. Here's how it works:

    When the recipient wants to receive a payment but lacks inbound capacity, their Breez app recognizes the lack and issues two invoices using the same preimage: one invoice is issued to the sender (requesting a payment) and a second is issued to the Breez LSP. The amount of the second invoice equals the amount requested from the payer minus a miniscule service fee to Breez for opening the channel the recipient requires. The invoice sent to the sender includes routing instructions, indicating a pseudo-channel between the recipient and the Breez node.
    When the sender pays the invoice they received from the recipient, the Breez node intercepts the payment and holds it.
    The Breez LSP then opens a channel with the recipient and skips funding confirmation. Then it pays the recipient the second invoice and receives the preimage.
    Once the preimage is received from the recipient, Breez settles the payment with the sender.

Breez funds the convenience of zero-conf channel creation by charging a fee.
sounds like breeze controls things so users dont have to

no where in that statement does it say the user drops in their own seed to create their own channels to self fund

Using the sendcoins command

Please note that the functionality described here is best left to advanced users.

In some cases, like channel closures, users' funds might be deposited automatically into Breez's built-in (on-chain) Bitcoin wallet. If this occurs, we strongly recommend sending the funds to a secure BTC address as soon as possible. Breez offers an Unexpected Funds screen to facilitate this process.

'breez's built in bitcoin wallet' = their custodian wallet

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
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December 21, 2023, 01:05:17 PM
Merited by Pmalek (2), joker_josue (1)
 #25

And I am not trying to suggest you run a node or do anything more than just use the lightning network in the way best for you.  I believe fees are going to follow a trajectory much like the price and hashrate has.  So doing mining as you do getting used to layer 2 strategies is going to become more and more important.  

I apologize for the offtopic, but do you know of any way to run node LN on Windows? I've been looking and haven't found anything that I find interesting.



LND has pre-compiled windows binaries.
https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/releases  <-- Don't trust my links verify for yourself.
You would need that and a full BTC node.
With everything figure a full 1TB free on a drive before you start.

Keep in mind you will also need 24/7 uptime for the PC and your internet connection.

And coffee lots of coffee to keep you up while getting it to work.

-Dave

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December 21, 2023, 02:04:32 PM
 #26

And I am not trying to suggest you run a node or do anything more than just use the lightning network in the way best for you.  I believe fees are going to follow a trajectory much like the price and hashrate has.  So doing mining as you do getting used to layer 2 strategies is going to become more and more important.  

I apologize for the offtopic, but do you know of any way to run node LN on Windows? I've been looking and haven't found anything that I find interesting.



Dave answered your question exactly as I would have, down to the coffee.
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December 21, 2023, 02:54:16 PM
 #27

Yeah I fucked around with an LN node a year ago and said no no no.

I will be busy for holidays. But I will open my electrum wallet and try to get that working with LN.

That way I would have the ideal method for me.

Mine to nicehash send:

LN to kraken if I want cash
LN to electrum if I want to hodl

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 MΞTAWIN  THE FIRST WEB3 CASINO   
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.. PLAY NOW ..
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December 21, 2023, 03:19:49 PM
 #28

At dkbit98 too hard or difficult.

I want this to be easy peasy.
What do you mean to hard or difficult?!
All you need is to install and open Breeze wallet... if that is to hard for you than I don't know what more to say, it's easier than opening new accounts on any exchange you mentioned Cheesy
Backup is encrypted and exported to cloud or your own personal server... very simple.

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December 21, 2023, 08:05:58 PM
 #29

LND has pre-compiled windows binaries.
https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/releases  <-- Don't trust my links verify for yourself.
You would need that and a full BTC node.
With everything figure a full 1TB free on a drive before you start.

Keep in mind you will also need 24/7 uptime for the PC and your internet connection.

And coffee lots of coffee to keep you up while getting it to work.

-Dave

Dave answered your question exactly as I would have, down to the coffee.

Thanks for the answer.
Disk space and leaving the PC on 24 hours a day is not a problem for me, these are things I already do.

The biggest problem is coffee, I don't drink coffee.  Roll Eyes
Could it be tea, if it's winter?  Cheesy

Yes, I already realize that this is a small headache, but I will investigate and see what I can do. Thank you for the tips.

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December 22, 2023, 03:20:50 PM
 #30

Yeah I fucked around with an LN node a year ago and said no no no.

I will be busy for holidays. But I will open my electrum wallet and try to get that working with LN.

That way I would have the ideal method for me.

Mine to nicehash send:

LN to kraken if I want cash
LN to electrum if I want to hodl

Totally agree with the LN node part.  You need to enjoy hitting yourself in the head with a brick if you want to run a production class node.  It's not that it is impossible, it's just a serious endeavor.  Like mining, really.

But luckily you can run a non custodial lightning wallet as an end user with about the same difficulty as using a Bitcoin wallet.  (And custodial wallets are almost easier than a regular bitcoin wallet...) 

I would only caution, that though I agree Electrum is a fantastic bitcoin wallet, the last time I looked at it's lightning implementation it was a lot trickier and a bit kludgy compared to Breez as well as a few others.  But I will spin up lightning in electrum again in a recent release to see if they have smoothed it out yet.  Maybe they have.
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December 22, 2023, 03:53:15 PM
 #31

The biggest problem is coffee, I don't drink coffee.  Roll Eyes
Could it be tea, if it's winter?  Cheesy

Only if it's this tea: https://www.republicoftea.com/breakfast-black-hicaf-natural-energy-tea-bags/p/v20145/


...
3.  Wallet of Satoshi.  It is custodial, but it is a great way to get used to doing lightning to and from your phone and gives you a lightning address.  Mine is cleanlisa67@walletofsatoshi.com.  Sending to and from a lightning address is as easy as using email....


Wallet of Satoshi is no longer available in the USA through either Google or Apple. Although it still works in the USA for now they could in theory shutdown all access to it. And since there is no way to recover anything since it is 100% custodial I would not recommend it. Witch is kind of sad since I have been recommending it and using it for a while.   https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5475337.0

-Dave

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December 22, 2023, 08:00:29 PM
 #32

The biggest problem is coffee, I don't drink coffee.  Roll Eyes
Could it be tea, if it's winter?  Cheesy

Only if it's this tea: https://www.republicoftea.com/breakfast-black-hicaf-natural-energy-tea-bags/p/v20145/

I don't think I need that much, I naturally don't sleep much, so it's not difficult to stay awake for a few hours trying to configure the LN monster!  Roll Eyes
My problem is time, I have less and less time for this type of adventure.

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JayJuanGee
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Self-Custody is a right. Say no to"Non-custodial"


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December 25, 2023, 04:43:59 AM
Last edit: December 25, 2023, 05:12:52 AM by JayJuanGee
 #33

And I am not trying to suggest you run a node or do anything more than just use the lightning network in the way best for you.  I believe fees are going to follow a trajectory much like the price and hashrate has.  So doing mining as you do getting used to layer 2 strategies is going to become more and more important.  
I apologize for the offtopic, but do you know of any way to run node LN on Windows? I've been looking and haven't found anything that I find interesting.
LND has pre-compiled windows binaries.
https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/releases  <-- Don't trust my links verify for yourself.
You would need that and a full BTC node.
With everything figure a full 1TB free on a drive before you start.

Keep in mind you will also need 24/7 uptime for the PC and your internet connection.

And coffee lots of coffee to keep you up while getting it to work.

-Dave

1) I have not set up a node either, but I thought that a potentially good option for running a node on a PC would be the DIY Start9.  

https://docs.start9.com/0.3.5.x/diy/diy-x86

The DIY Start9 apparently runs on Linux, Windows or MacOS...

@cAPSLOCK Have you run one of these? or some variation of it? on your hardware or on their hardware?

2)  @Phillip1957.  In your several posts starting out this thread, there are several times that you are using the terms custodial versus non-custodial incorrectly.

I don't like those custodial/non-custodial terms either and I find them confusing (which is also probably the case with an overwhelming number of bitcoin newbies - and you are not even a newbie and you are not using the terms correctly.... and I am not even blaming you for that because they are confusing).  

In any event, in order to lessen some of the ambiguity, I tend to use the term third-party custodial (to refer to custodial) and Self-custodial to refer to non-custodial.. We likely know that another ambiguous term that has been coming up is hosted versus unhosted wallets, in order to try to normalize third party custodial as if self-custody (or non-custodial or unhosted) was a bad thing.. and the fact of the matter is that the use of confusing terms is likely an attack vector on bitcoin and an attack on ideas of self-custodial, which everyone has rights to be able to custody his own money, information and value and to have privacy over these kinds of matters..

3) This website strives to categorize and describe several lightning network wallets in terms of custodial and non-custodial, and I personally have ONLY used Cash App (Custodial), Bluewallet (the custodial version of lightning network that they used to have), Breez (non-custodial - but had my channel force closed), and Phoenix (non-custodial and I have been using it since February/March 2023 - but have probably ONLY done fewer than 20 transactions with it).  

I personally believe that it is not too much work to set up something like a Phoenix wallet, and you can store the 12 words, and you can also do a cloud backup, but I don't do that.  The set up fees are a bit higher right now, and last week, they were like 30k to 50k satoshis because of onchain fees.  They are now coming down to between 15k and 25k satoshis in the last few days, and maybe will be able to set up for less than 10k satoshis in the near future?  Once the channel is open, then if you are using it every month, you will probably find it easier to use, and less concerns about using the (third-party) custodial services that you are currently exploring with nice hash, kraken and others that you are looking into.  I have not tried to set up any Electrum wallet (or to use lighting network in that way), so I don't have that level of experience, so far... but like you, I am working on various ways to try to increase my exposure to various lightning network applications/wallets and to try to learn more about ways that I might be able to use them to have more options during sometimes uncertain fee times that still seems to be our current on-chain situation.

1) Self-Custody is a right.  There is no such thing as "non-custodial" or "un-hosted."  2) ESG, KYC & AML are attack-vectors on Bitcoin to be avoided or minimized.  3) How much alt (shit)coin diversification is necessary? if you are into Bitcoin, then 0%......if you cannot control your gambling, then perhaps limit your alt(shit)coin exposure to less than 10% of your bitcoin size...Put BTC here: bc1q49wt0ddnj07wzzp6z7affw9ven7fztyhevqu9k
franky1
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December 25, 2023, 04:54:52 AM
Last edit: February 05, 2024, 04:10:07 PM by franky1
 #34

Bluewallet (the custodial version of lightning network that they used to have), Breez (non-custodial - but had my channel force closed), and Phoenix (non-custodial and I have been using it since February/March 2023 - but have have probably ONLY done fewer than 20 transactions with it).  

easiest way for you to know that you are the owner of the funds vs using a custodian. is this
if YOU create a LN key and YOU fund that key to then have a channel of said balance, the funds are in your control

if you requested a router move LN msat balance to a channel via routing, then your channel partner is assigning IOU balance inbound to you, on their control of their funds, which they are reciprocally getting credited by their channel partner and so on and so on

if they are also offering "instant open" channels be aware. funding locks are NEVER instant



.. anyways time for christmas.

I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.
Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at
philipma1957 (OP)
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February 05, 2024, 03:14:11 PM
 #35

Fees dropped a lot but I can still use nicehash or kraken if needed.

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