The Whole Concept of Bitcoin is Failing!

[thecodebear]

The whole concept of Bitcoin being the cheapest payment system already got ruined after 2017. Then came a time when institutional investors started buyin Bitcoin and we saw a new ATH. Everything was looking good until these guys, ORDI started utilizing the infrastructure for their own shit agenda.

I'm curious where did you read "the whole concept of Bitcoin is cheapest payment"? I didn't find it through the whitepaper.

I guess this is what we need to expect if most of Bitcoin is already mined and mining no longer profitable, I don't think the miners are fine to accept loses just to make people can able to proceed their transactions.

Sooner or later we will be forced to use L2.

Mining will always be profitable. It's a self regulating system, when it becomes not profitable the least efficient miners have to drop out and it becomes profitable again.

And of course we'll all be using L2 eventually. Bitcoin wasn't made to handle massive amounts of transactions. Bitcoin only works for payments on L2. On-chain is for moving lots of money around or for batching many transactions-to-one either through crypto companies batching transactions or through effectivecly batching transactions by using L2, where presumably there will be thousands of transactions for every one on-chain transaction. Anyone who understands how Bitcoin works understands this.

Bitcoin wasn't made to be cheap, it was made to be self-banking, decentralized, censorship-resistant, secure, unstoppable, digital hard money. Cheap transactions were just a side effect of Bitcoin not be used much the first few years. As Bitcoin grows naturally 99%+ of transactions will be done on L2 and other off-chain solutions because paying for stuff needs to be cheap but that's not what the blockchain was made to do.

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[Mr.suevie]

Consider the situation we were in 2021 and then considering the present situation we are in, what do you think is the problem? Most of us would say nothing! I would say it is the transaction fees, won't you agree on this part.

The whole concept of Bitcoin being the cheapest payment system already got ruined after 2017. Then came a time when institutional investors started buyin Bitcoin and we saw a new ATH. Everything was looking good until these guys, ORDI started utilizing the infrastructure for their own shit agenda.

What has happened now? High transaction fee, congested Bitcoin blockchain and continuous discussion about Ordinals. Cursing the miners and what not!

Where are we going as a Bitcoin community? What do the developer plan for the future? Is this infestation being done by the government? Let's discuss possibilities or we might end up with nothing before the next halving.

Nicely said mate, this thing has become a menace for we Bitcoin lovers and promoters and not to talk of the multiple devastating effects this ordinal shit has caused to the Bitcoin ecosystem. The worse part this time own high fee rise is that it's not getting any better but even worse by the day. I could only imagine the number of business that have crumble because of this ordinal shit.

The lightening network that was a major solution for it's creation too have had slow adoption maybe due to complicity of its use, if only there was a way to actually prohibit the ordinal bastard from inscribing their transaction on the Bitcoin network to avoid similar situation in the future.

[Abiky]

Consider the situation we were in 2021 and then considering the present situation we are in, what do you think is the problem? Most of us would say nothing! I would say it is the transaction fees, won't you agree on this part.

The whole concept of Bitcoin being the cheapest payment system already got ruined after 2017. Then came a time when institutional investors started buyin Bitcoin and we saw a new ATH. Everything was looking good until these guys, ORDI started utilizing the infrastructure for their own shit agenda.

What has happened now? High transaction fee, congested Bitcoin blockchain and continuous discussion about Ordinals. Cursing the miners and what not!

Where are we going as a Bitcoin community? What do the developer plan for the future? Is this infestation being done by the government? Let's discuss possibilities or we might end up with nothing before the next halving.

High fees are concercing, but it's part of the "natural process" of mainstream adoption. Even without Ordinals, fees will increase if there's a lot of demand for BTC. The only viable solution for scaling would be to increase the block size. L2/off-chain scaling solutions don't work because they still require an on-chain fee for opening/closing channels. Not to mention, they're centralized and highly-experimental.

The community will ultimately decide the best path forward for the cryptocurrency. What we need to worry about is not the fees, but the way Bitcoin is organized. As long as decentralization/censorship-resistance is preserved, nothing else matters. Hopefully, the dust will settle after the block reward halving. I'd would wait to see what happens by then.

[icalical]

To be honest, in my opinion we were never be in the state where Bitcoin original concept that was proposed as Currency. Until now the majority of Bitcoin holder is a speculators who consider Bitcoin as an investment, not currency. I dare to say that they barely spend 1mSat or $1 worth of Bitcoin monthly. So it is not failing if this concept were never established in the first place.

But I do agree that this ordinals is making it worse, now they use Bitcoin Blockchain as if like it is a launchpad platform, and occupying the blockchain node that were supposed to be use for BTC transaction as currency.

[jeraldskie11]

It's very rare to experience network congestion in Bitcoin way back 2021 but today the network is congested almost every day. Maybe it's because of the brc20 tokens, not just because of Ordi and Sats. A lot of brc20 tokens came out and I think that's the reason. Back then we only heard of Ethereum having problems with this, but now it's Bitcoin. I believe that miners benefit a lot when this happened since the fee is so high.

[oktana]

I’m sorry, was the concept of Bitcoin to be the cheapest payment system? No. The concept of Bitcoin has its primary focus on decentralization, security, P2P electronic cash, etc. But I do agree that the transaction fee happens to be a big challenge in general. What’s even worse is that we do not know what’s happening next, will the transaction fees keep flying high or will it reduce already? But nonetheless, Satoshi’s focus wasn’t cheapest payment system.

[Samlucky O]

Consider the situation we were in 2021 and then considering the present situation we are in, what do you think is the problem? Most of us would say nothing! I would say it is the transaction fees, won't you agree on this part.

The whole concept of Bitcoin being the cheapest payment system already got ruined after 2017

If bitcoin was to be human, I think on its own never knew  the transaction fee would have been this high. But frequent transactions on its blockchain has increased to the extent transactions is now congested and are waiting to be confirmed in memepool. I think i
The traffic in the network is the real cause of that and I think that will be a solution with no less time.

[serjent05]

High fees are concercing, but it's part of the "natural process" of mainstream adoption. Even without Ordinals, fees will increase if there's a lot of demand for BTC. The only viable solution for scaling would be to increase the block size. L2/off-chain scaling solutions don't work because they still require an on-chain fee for opening/closing channels. Not to mention, they're centralized and highly-experimental.

I agree, that Bitcoin needs to scale in order to process transaction without the fee surging when an influx of people adopt Bitcoin and do transfers.  If Bitcoin fail to scale, I believe that would be the end of Bitcoin since no one will continuously use a system where transfer fee are surging when there is an available method to do transactions with way lower fees.  Those who will continue to sue unscalable Bitcoin network system will eventually dry up their funds...

The community will ultimately decide the best path forward for the cryptocurrency. What we need to worry about is not the fees, but the way Bitcoin is organized. As long as decentralization/censorship-resistance is preserved, nothing else matters. Hopefully, the dust will settle after the block reward halving. I'd would wait to see what happens by then.

For multi-million dollar people, the fee is not the problem but for regular people that do small transfers, that is very concerning.  Even a company will go bankrupt if it won't charge its clients of transaction fee when the client decides to withdraw their BTC.  Hopefully, Bitcoin can fix the fee surge problem caused by ordinals without sacrificing its decentralization feature.

[Baofeng]

I’m sorry, was the concept of Bitcoin to be the cheapest payment system? No. The concept of Bitcoin has its primary focus on decentralization, security, P2P electronic cash, etc. But I do agree that the transaction fee happens to be a big challenge in general. What’s even worse is that we do not know what’s happening next, will the transaction fees keep flying high or will it reduce already? But nonetheless, Satoshi’s focus wasn’t cheapest payment system.

Yes, perhaps what he meant is that it was design by Satoshi to be a payment system. So it could be cheap in the beginning, but we all know that Bitcoin has evolved so much and now it is a store of value and assets.

But as far as the concern of OP regarding the transaction fee is absolutely right. As we can see there's a lot of threads about the implications of those ordinals clogging the network forcing the fees to skyrocket. And just imagine what it will bring to the ecosystem if we hit the bull run in the next coming years. Perhaps something needs to be done here uses LN, but not sure if that will be the solution to be honest.

[Dump3er]

Consider the situation we were in 2021 and then considering the present situation we are in, what do you think is the problem? Most of us would say nothing! I would say it is the transaction fees, won't you agree on this part.

The whole concept of Bitcoin being the cheapest payment system already got ruined after 2017. Then came a time when institutional investors started buyin Bitcoin and we saw a new ATH. Everything was looking good until these guys, ORDI started utilizing the infrastructure for their own shit agenda.

What has happened now? High transaction fee, congested Bitcoin blockchain and continuous discussion about Ordinals. Cursing the miners and what not!

Where are we going as a Bitcoin community? What do the developer plan for the future? Is this infestation being done by the government? Let's discuss possibilities or we might end up with nothing before the next halving.

It has never been unknown that rising BTC transactoin fees are an inevitable consequence of widespread interest in the network. Maybe one thing that people were more optimistic about was the depth and pace of development of scalability solutions. But all things equal, it was well known that if tons of money flow into the network and no serious scalability solutons can be presented, feels will go up no matter what. It has also been correctly pointed out in a different thread that high fees can be considered a long term necessity in order for the network to be effectively secured against attacks.

[Zigabel]

Transaction fees have really been high recently but then this isn't the first time we are experiencing such so there will be no need for too much panic as it will be back to normal soon just as we have experienced over time even some times in 2019 and 2021, it could be the anticipation for the halving and the continuous demand for the use of Bitcoin, moreover, more countries are adopting the legal usage of Bitcoin as a legal tender so it is expected as the demand increases a proportional increase in transactions fee will accompany the demand and price movement.

Probably after the halving, by the next bull run transactions fee may turn out fair enough but the congestion on Bitcoin chain is something I'm not certain about how soon that will be taken care of.

[Natsuu]

Transaction fees have really been high recently but then this isn't the first time we are experiencing such so there will be no need for too much panic as it will be back to normal soon just as we have experienced over time even some times in 2019 and 2021, it could be the anticipation for the halving and the continuous demand for the use of Bitcoin, moreover, more countries are adopting the legal usage of Bitcoin as a legal tender so it is expected as the demand increases a proportional increase in transactions fee will accompany the demand and price movement.

Probably after the halving, by the next bull run transactions fee may turn out fair enough but the congestion on Bitcoin chain is something I'm not certain about how soon that will be taken care of.

Yeah it’s understandable that transaction fees have been high lately, considering factors like the halving, increased Bitcoin adoption and the demand. Since fluctuations are normal and things may stabilize post-halving. The challenge might be addressing congestion on the Bitcoin chain for smoother transactions. I think given the increasing adoption of Bitcoin as legal tender which i am hoping and the anticipation surrounding the halving, it's plausible that transaction fees will balance out over time. Don’t you think?

[Faisal2202]

And there seems to be some opposition to the idea on GitHub (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/28408), so I wouldn't hold your breath on this being solved any time soon.

It sounds like these people on Telegram and here on the forum need to read more and spread a little less hype.

Thanks for this information I was not aware of this refusal coming from the community but I hope in some way this ordinal thing gets resolved, it is causing so much pain in the ace, If people are against this idea on GitHub or on any other platform then this indicates that developers are at least thinking about it. They will make some efforts for it, and these situations that BTC has created for us will force them to come up with some suitable solution.

Actually, I am not that active on GitHub and I am not a developer so, I don't know much about technical things, but in the post you have mentioned, I will understand the terms used in it.

[Webetcoins]

Though we all want fees to be low and such high fees are a problem, I don't think Satoshi created Bitcoin for cheap transactions but the main purpose of Bitcoin was to become a secure peer-to-peer payment method so that people can transaction money to one another with a decentralized payment system where no central authority would be involved, and the purpose is still intact, even though people mostly use Bitcoin as an investment these days instead of what it was created for but I don't blame anyone.

I'm not disagreeing and I understand that fees are a problem because you do need to make transactions with it even if you are using it as an investment or trading with it or using it for gambling or any other purpose. However, these things will become a greater problem if Bitcoin becomes an actual mode of payment in the mainstream world which isn't the case at the moment.

[so98nn]

That is why it has become imminent to find a mining solution or maybe increase the mining operations. It is evident that network difficulty is rising, however miners are losing the battle to tackle all the transactions that are getting broadcasted. This means, we either need to upgrade the technology at hand or increase the bulk mining preferences.

This is impossible but imagine the government stepping in with its operational facilities for the mining. Then they can become faster since they have more capacity to develop infra, get electricity at cheap rates for themselves, buy the equipment at a lower cost or maybe mass produce the same. I know government agreeing on this is literally next to impossible but imagine that happening in the near future.

It can make bitcoin available at government facilities, thus more public getting involved with it. This will definitely rise the price but lower the fees since tech will be advance and widespread.

[Abiky]

I’m sorry, was the concept of Bitcoin to be the cheapest payment system? No. The concept of Bitcoin has its primary focus on decentralization, security, P2P electronic cash, etc. But I do agree that the transaction fee happens to be a big challenge in general. What’s even worse is that we do not know what’s happening next, will the transaction fees keep flying high or will it reduce already? But nonetheless, Satoshi’s focus wasn’t cheapest payment system.

Well, if we want Bitcoin to be used as a payments system, fees need to be as low as possible. Otherwise, Bitcoin would only be used as a store of value for large money transfers. I think this is what "Wall Street" wants, especially when several crypto industry players are in support of Ordinals. Miners won't let go of their huge revenue just because most users don't like Ordinals. So we should expect fees to remain high for quite some time.

Bitcoin's only "salvation" would be an increase in the block size limit. The Lightning Network has been proven from time to time to be an utter failure. Not only that it's buggy, but you'd still need to pay a high on-chain fee just to open/close a channel. This is not scalable, in my opinion. I just hope things get back to normal soon, so Bitcoin can fulfill its purpose of being a system for the "unbanked". People from developing countries (El Salvador) are suffering the most with high on-chain fees. Who knows what the future holds for the cryptocurrency? 

[oktana]

I’m sorry, was the concept of Bitcoin to be the cheapest payment system? No. The concept of Bitcoin has its primary focus on decentralization, security, P2P electronic cash, etc. But I do agree that the transaction fee happens to be a big challenge in general. What’s even worse is that we do not know what’s happening next, will the transaction fees keep flying high or will it reduce already? But nonetheless, Satoshi’s focus wasn’t cheapest payment system.

Yes, perhaps what he meant is that it was design by Satoshi to be a payment system. So it could be cheap in the beginning, but we all know that Bitcoin has evolved so much and now it is a store of value and assets.

But as far as the concern of OP regarding the transaction fee is absolutely right. As we can see there's a lot of threads about the implications of those ordinals clogging the network forcing the fees to skyrocket. And just imagine what it will bring to the ecosystem if we hit the bull run in the next coming years. Perhaps something needs to be done here uses LN, but not sure if that will be the solution to be honest.

If you are saying the “yes” in regards to being cheap, then I beg to differ. Bitcoin doesn’t have anything to do with being a cheap payment system. Did Satoshi mention in the whitepaper that this was his aim? I am not saying that the expensive transaction fee is perfect and what I want, but I know for a fact that the transaction fee wasn’t his focus or purpose of creating Bitcoin. If it was, then the concept of Bitcoin already failed long ago when these cheap transaction fee cryptocurrencies (like XLM) came in place. Bitcoin was aimed at decentralization, security, etc. let’s hope the fees drop anyways.