Signature mixers question

[takuma sato]

Given current events, I was wondering, how are previous campaigns that promoted mixers going to show up? I was thinking that when one does taxes and wants to cash out earnings made off mixer campaigns into fiat, and the accountant, taxman or both, request context on earnings, we are going to have to send them a link to the post that contained your address were you requested to be added, and I would appreciate if it isn't all replaced with something that's showing some text that makes you look dodgy, like "banned site" or something as I saw in another campaign.

I wonder how to go about this at all. As far as I know it's a perfectly legal activity of marketing, but if theymos is going to replace all previous links with some sort placeholder, I wonder what's going to happen from now on.

For some small amount, I may not even cash it out. But those people that participated for years and have staked a decent amount and want to a buy a house or whatnot, will have to explain the earnings from the signature campaigns and provide context, and this context will be marketing activities for casinos and mixers in most cases. Chipmixer comes to mind as one of the longest running campaigns, and this one ended up closed. This sucks because 99% of people just mix their coins to pay without having to reveal your BTC net worth in the process, which can easily be looked up if you stack considerable amounts on a single address, or if you have made payments that joined several of your addresses. This should be reasonable to anyone including the taxman. If we don't fight this false narrative of how mixing coins = criminal activity things will only get worse.

As far as cashing out earnings from sig campaigns, I wonder how that works in practice. If anyone has any experience with this please let me know.

[1714488719]

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[digaran]

So, you guys are getting paid in Bitcoin just to pay tax on it? Let me go bash my head against a wall.🤦‍♂️
But in any case if you guys wanna play submissive little b*tch role for the central banks, you could show an archived version of the former glorious and currently banned signatures of mixers to the tax boss man. 😉

[Poker Player]

As far as cashing out earnings from sig campaigns, I wonder how that works in practice.

The theory works with everyone on the forum declaring signature campaigns earnings. In practice it works with people cashing out what they earn with anonymous Bitcoin ATMs, DEX, buying gift cards or depositing it in the casino and losing it. Without declaring it.

Others accumulate but may find themselves tomorrow with a serious problem, which has already been discussed many times on the forum. If by accumulating you find yourself with $1M that is difficult to justify to the authorities, you will have to look for specialized lawyers and maybe set up some kind of structure to be able to use that money, or go to a crypto-friendly country where you will not have problems about the origin of those funds.

[nutildah]

This is all just my personal opinion, and not meant to be construed as actual advice, and it only applies to those living in the US (I don't know about other country's tax laws):

If (in theory) I had earnings from a mixer signature campaign, I would report them only if they ended up at a US-based exchange where you provided KYC information. If you cashed them out to USD, you'll definitely want to report that, as most likely the exchange will be providing the IRS with this information.

If you cashed them out in any other way, I wouldn't bother reporting it at all. The chances of being audited by the IRS are slim unless you made some windfall profits that are triggering tax documents to be sent on your behalf.

[hugeblack]

In case you forgot, but "a cryptocurrency mixing service is not necessarily illegal," and so far the legislation criminalizing the mixing service in the United States is a draft law and has not yet been passed, so your profits from mixing services are legal, even if a law was passed prohibiting trading in cryptocurrencies, what would it be? Except in the case of sinbad, in which the address of the signature campaign was added to the OFAC list, here you either mix your money before sending it to CEX, or you tell them all the details.

@theymos banned mixers here because he is afraid for his life/forum, not because mixers are illegal.

[EarnOnVictor]

-snip-
This should be reasonable to anyone including the taxman. If we don't fight this false narrative of how mixing coins = criminal activity things will only get worse.

As far as cashing out earnings from sig campaigns, I wonder how that works in practice. If anyone has any experience with this please let me know.

I must say that you confused me with most of your narrations, but I like the remarks of fighting the narrative for criminality not to thrive. M!xers are a whole lot of menace if I must say, though some use it for genuine purposes and some m!xers too are so professional in their operation, but the illegal use must always be present and those who want to be clearly unseen when it comes to cryptocurrency will definitely use mixers.

However, the sending accounts can't be the same all the time, but at times, the same account will send to a multitude, and it will be an issue if, in the end, the account is flagged for an allegation linked to m!xers. And finally, I don't think that Bitcoin or m!xers can cover up for anyhow where inflow is strictly taxed in his country. After all, the person would want to convert the crypto to fiat and when reaches the bank account, tax may apply. It now depends on the investigation on the ground, if the inflow which was tax must be investigated to know if the source is legit. I do not know if they will get to know it is from m!xers or not, but it is very possible if the m!xer's sending account is already flagged.

But yours is to explain yourself, and since m!xers are not entirely illegal, I believe you will be exonerated.

[zasad@]

As far as cashing out earnings from sig campaigns, I wonder how that works in practice. If anyone has any experience with this please let me know.

Each country has different laws. In my country, I have to declare my income and pay taxes every year. In other countries, you are required to report your income every month or quarter.
If you have bitcoins, then you can register as an NFT artist in your country and put your collection on the open sea market. Let's exchange your BTC for Ethereum and buy your NFT tokens and pay the tax.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Since when do you report the specific forum topic that acted as the announcement page of the product you advertised? This sounds similar to filling "cpuminer" when reporting your mining profit.

I guess it varies from countries to countries, but in my place there isn't even a tax framework where you can report bitcoin, let alone the place where you got your job, or the product you advertised and got paid in bitcoin. Please address to an expert (lawyer or accountant) if you haven't already, because it doesn't seem right to reporting everything related to your forum pseudonym.

[TheUltraElite]

Taxation systems vary between countries. Where I live there is humongous amount of tax when selling crypto is concerned and the capital gains on that. It is the government's method to discourage people from dealing in crypto but they fail to do so.

At present I am not cashing out much of my campaign earnings but buying gift cards for groceries and all at times.

Mixing coins will continue because people are paranoid about privacy and some people have been stacking coins enough to get big eyes on them. It just the consequence of being rich. For now I dont think any desperate step needs to be taken. Let things go by and see how the US takes care of things, other demoractic countries will follow suit.

[LoyceV]

I was thinking that when one does taxes and wants to cash out earnings made off mixer campaigns into fiat, and the accountant, taxman or both, request context on earnings, we are going to have to send them a link to the post that contained your address were you requested to be added

If you need a website as evidence of a source of income later on, you should just archive or print it.

I guess it varies from countries to countries, but in my place there isn't even a tax framework where you can report bitcoin, let alone the place where you got your job, or the product you advertised and got paid in bitcoin.

Here, the tax report field looks like this:

Code:

Description: 
Amount: 

That's it. If, however, they have questions later, it's up to the tax payer to give a plausible explanation.

[Orpichukwu]

Given current events, I was wondering, how are previous campaigns that promoted mixers going to show up? I was thinking that when one does taxes and wants to cash out earnings made off mixer campaigns into fiat, and the accountant, taxman or both, request context on earnings, we are going to have to send them a link to the post that contained your address were you requested to be added, and I would appreciate if it isn't all replaced with something that's showing some text that makes you look dodgy, like "banned site" or something as I saw in another campaign.

Is everyone who requested to join a campaign all accepted into that campaign? The answer is no. To me, what I think one should be worried about in terms of the task report if they are ever going to ask for a detailed explanation should be the campaign spreadsheets.
 
That's the only way the task agent can see the name of the task payer on the spreadsheet together with that of others, and they can see how the payments are being made on a weekly basis. If the money was actually earned as you claimed, the spreadsheet and the campaign announcement page are all that you need to make a proper account of how you earn.
 
And if you know that things like this, where you will be asked questions about how you earn and you are uncertain about what information about mixer will remain on the forum, you can make a copy of the thread and print it out like Loyce has suggested, I think solid evidence is even being offered in paper and document format.

[Lucius]

Each country has different laws. In my country, I have to declare my income and pay taxes every year. In other countries, you are required to report your income every month or quarter.

I'm supposed to do a report every time I get paid - which means every week, which is completely insane. Therefore, if someone makes such an insane request, I think we can agree that paying taxes on the earnings from signature campaigns is by no means an option for people in my situation.

Given that I live in an extremely corrupt country where in the last 8 years about 30 ministers have been fired or resigned due to corrupt actions, believe me I sleep peacefully when I know that my money did not go into their pockets.

[LoyceV]

Is everyone who requested to join a campaign all accepted into that campaign? The answer is no.

That doesn't matter, the rest of the evidence is on the blockchain.

[safar1980]

philipma1957 is a miner from the USA and I am sure that he pays taxes on the bitcoins he receives for signature campaigns.
Apparently he has an accountant who does his taxes, but you can ask him about this if you are from the USA.

[takuma sato]

I was thinking that when one does taxes and wants to cash out earnings made off mixer campaigns into fiat, and the accountant, taxman or both, request context on earnings, we are going to have to send them a link to the post that contained your address were you requested to be added

If you need a website as evidence of a source of income later on, you should just archive or print it.

I guess it varies from countries to countries, but in my place there isn't even a tax framework where you can report bitcoin, let alone the place where you got your job, or the product you advertised and got paid in bitcoin.

Here, the tax report field looks like this:

Code:

Description: 
Amount: 

That's it. If, however, they have questions later, it's up to the tax payer to give a plausible explanation.

But let's say you cannot do this until after the 1st when all ulrs will be redacted with some wordfilter, what then?
There may also be a lot of people that find old wallets, look around and find they got them from sign campaigns from 8 years ago for instance, then they see the threads have redacted urls. You sell to buy a house, taxman wants context, what do you provide?

At least theymos isn't deleting the threads, so the post with your address will be there, that's something, however having redacted urls with "banned site" isn't helpful tax wise since it makes it less clear what the advertised service was.

Some people may argue, why bother, just spend it on this on that gift voucher. Well those are small purchases, im talking about people that were there like a decade ago and continued for some years making a nice amount of BTC since it was being paid in bigger amounts due the very cheap prices, and these prices went up a ton and now they want to buy real estate with those earnings, what do you do?

In one hand the taxman of your average developed country will always say to declare and provide context, but on the other hand they will make things miserable if you don't like your explanations. And most people aren't willing to move to some dodgy country. So yeah, not many options there that I can see. If they gave us a peace of mind of knowing nothing will go wrong, a lot of people would do it to diversify in other assets, but since that is not the case, I wonder how many people have considerable amounts in wallets that can only be spent on doing groceries with vouchers, gift cards, or the increasingly smaller set ofs called anonymous ATMS. Bisq and co leave SEPA traces so not that interest. Cash by mail seems dodgy. And meeting with IRL people for cash transactions has massive risks too. And again, you cannot really enjoy those gains, im talking 6+ figures, if you are limited to very small movements to live under the radar, specially if you pay rent and want to buy real state, and diversify and so on. There is no way around paying taxes there and there has to be a way to solve that situation.

[Don Pedro Dinero]

And again, you cannot really enjoy those gains, im talking 6+ figures, if you are limited to very small movements to live under the radar, specially if you pay rent and want to buy real state, and diversify and so on. There is no way around paying taxes there and there has to be a way to solve that situation.

It's funny because we have one on our local board who won't stop crying about it, and I think he's the same one who asks the same question on other Spanish-language forums.

The problem with declaring signature campaigns in some countries is that it would cost you so much that it is impractical because you would have to register as a self-employed person and the fee plus taxes to be paid is more than what you earn here.

However, if for whatever reason you have more than 6 figures today and you don't know what to do with it, you are a fool. Gift cards and ATMs are for small amounts, for amounts of millions there are other solutions that you are not going to find in a forum. What you need to do is get off your ass and make decisions, instead of crying in the forums.

[LoyceV]

But let's say you cannot do this until after the 1st when all ulrs will be redacted with some wordfilter, what then?
There may also be a lot of people that find old wallets, look around and find they got them from sign campaigns from 8 years ago for instance, then they see the threads have redacted urls. You sell to buy a house, taxman wants context, what do you provide?

Simply put: that's on you! It's your own responsibilty to keep records, if you can't do that, you'll have to face the taxman. I don't think the forum can be expected to keep records for other people's tax purposes. Blockchain timestamps can support your story.

In one hand the taxman of your average developed country will always say to declare and provide context

Obviously you need to declare everything, but here, taxman usually doesn't ask for context. But when he does, you have 6 weeks to provide it so you'd better be ready.

[zasad@]

In one hand the taxman of your average developed country will always say to declare and provide context, but on the other hand they will make things miserable if you don't like your explanations. And most people aren't willing to move to some dodgy country. So yeah, not many options there that I can see. If they gave us a peace of mind of knowing nothing will go wrong, a lot of people would do it to diversify in other assets, but since that is not the case, I wonder how many people have considerable amounts in wallets that can only be spent on doing groceries with vouchers, gift cards, or the increasingly smaller set ofs called anonymous ATMS. Bisq and co leave SEPA traces so not that interest. Cash by mail seems dodgy. And meeting with IRL people for cash transactions has massive risks too. And again, you cannot really enjoy those gains, im talking 6+ figures, if you are limited to very small movements to live under the radar, specially if you pay rent and want to buy real state, and diversify and so on. There is no way around paying taxes there and there has to be a way to solve that situation.

I think you need to study more about the laws and instructions for filing a tax return in your country.
I think in any country you can declare small incomes if they are related to non-permanent commercial activities.
In my country, I fill out a special column in the tax return “other income” and there is no point in being afraid of inspections if the amount is small, a few thousand dollars.
The IRS does not have enough resources to review every tax return. Personal communication in such cases is minimal. Usually they can send me a letter asking for an explanation, I write that I translated several texts into Russian and they paid me money by transfer to a card. I won’t say anything about bitcoins, although I will exchange them myself.

[takuma sato]

But let's say you cannot do this until after the 1st when all ulrs will be redacted with some wordfilter, what then?
There may also be a lot of people that find old wallets, look around and find they got them from sign campaigns from 8 years ago for instance, then they see the threads have redacted urls. You sell to buy a house, taxman wants context, what do you provide?

Simply put: that's on you! It's your own responsibilty to keep records, if you can't do that, you'll have to face the taxman. I don't think the forum can be expected to keep records for other people's tax purposes. Blockchain timestamps can support your story.

In one hand the taxman of your average developed country will always say to declare and provide context

Obviously you need to declare everything, but here, taxman usually doesn't ask for context. But when he does, you have 6 weeks to provide it so you'd better be ready.

You can keep records taking screenshots, and archiving webpages too I guess. However, the problem remains: The taxman may not enjoy that you promoted mixers, considering the bad rep they have nowadays, increasingly bad it seems, since they talk about passing anti mixer laws, so you would be promoting the same thing they want to ban. If you hodl on this capital, by the time you cash it may be even worse by then. This is the main problem here. It is only reasonable to think in advance and try predict what the response will be when you show up with mixer sig campaign earnings.

There's also the direct risk of depositing coins that came from sig campaign earnings into an exchange, or any mixed amounts for that matter. On a long enough timeline everything that didn't came from "certified KYC exchanges" will be a risk to deposit since you never know if a few hopes before you contained some tainted addresses, then you go in there and deposit these next to your dox. This is unfair but this is where we are going into.

So for someone with smaller amounts, this may still be a risk, but for smaller amounts, it may not even be worth cashing out, just spend it on groceries or basic stuff.

But for bigger amounts, you'll have problems trying to do anything with that stored capital, which may require some more creative solutions which include additional risks.

[Poker Player]

You can keep records taking screenshots, and archiving webpages too I guess. However, the problem remains: The taxman may not enjoy that you promoted mixers, considering the bad rep they have nowadays, increasingly bad it seems, since they talk about passing anti mixer laws, so you would be promoting the same thing they want to ban. If you hodl on this capital, by the time you cash it may be even worse by then. This is the main problem here. It is only reasonable to think in advance and try predict what the response will be when you show up with mixer sig campaign earnings.

If you insist on seeing problems instead of solutions, it is not surprising that you only see problems.

What is clear is that you don't have a fucking clue about law. What the IRS likes or dislikes doesn't matter. If you file taxes for signature campaigns mixers he can't take legal action against you because they are not illegal. And if in 5 years they are declared illegal he can't act retroactively against you for having filed the taxes of this year.

You can continue to insist on seeing a problem while the rest of us will continue without any problems because of our signature campaign earnings.