HODL bitcoins, you can do it! Look at HODL camp map to build up strong hands

[Questat]

Holding really matters in investing in Bitcoin but it doesn't mean we have to do this our whole life. If we take a look at the price chart, prices are growing but can we think this will be the same trend in the next few years? Not for sure and it was uncertain. So I could say that holding will not be forever as it also depends on the market situation. Selling our Bitcoin during the bull season is a perfect option IMHO and get on the train back again once the market correction starts. But yes, this needs strong hands because waiting for 4 years is not as easy as people think as we need to deal our emotions as well.

[romero121]

Holding really matters in investing in Bitcoin but it doesn't mean we have to do this our whole life. If we take a look at the price chart, prices are growing but can we think this will be the same trend in the next few years? Not for sure and it was uncertain. So I could say that holding will not be forever as it also depends on the market situation. Selling our Bitcoin during the bull season is a perfect option IMHO and get on the train back again once the market correction starts. But yes, this needs strong hands because waiting for 4 years is not as easy as people think as we need to deal our emotions as well.

Here, what we're talking about is the retirement life, particularly a successful early retirement. Life will be enjoyable when we are able to make the future comfortable. Throughout his life, he isn't sacrificing anything or holding, he's just investing €500 every month without thinking about the market situation. This has now turned into a lot of money in terms of USD. As suggested, selling at the peak and buying back is a good choice, but for people who don't want to take risks, this is also a wise choice to make a better portfolio in cryptocurrency.

[JayJuanGee]

[edited out]

Due to its uniqueness, Bitcoin has the potential for a significant asymmetric reward, which implies that the upside is far greater than the downside.

I would describe asymmetric bet a bit differently.

My understanding of asymmetric bet is that if you do not use leverage, then the most that you can lose is 100% of what you have invested; however, if various bullish cases for bitcoin play out, then you have chances to double, triple, 10x, 100x, 1,000x your investment, depending on your timeline and depending on how bullish bitcoin ends up playing out - in the event it does end up playing out bullishly rather than flat or bearishly.. but even if it ends up playing out flat or bearishly, you are not going to lose any more than 100% of what you had invested (so long as you do not use leverage).

So you seem to be sort of correct that when you are assessing possible outcomes for bitcoin and your investment into it, you are weighing one price direction versus the other side (down versus up), but also you should be factoring the magnitude of upside that is possible, including that you do not necessarily need to invest large portions of your wealth and still end up having potentials for benefiting greatly...

Consider some of the guys who might have invested $10k or less into bitcoin 8-12 years ago, and yeah of course, the earlier they invested the better, yet $10k for some folks might have had been a whimpy investment.. and even a $1k investment in 2012 might have gotten you close to 200 bitcoin, and surely some folks might consider that amount to have had been pretty whimpy, and so the return ended up being way more disproportionate to the upside as compared to the amount invested or the amount put at risk, even if you consider opportunity costs of the invested money and even if you consider that the money devalued over the next 8-12-ish years, depending on when the guy got into bitcoin.

So even today, the upside potential of bitcoin might well not be as great in terms of multiples and or magnitude in which BTC could appreciate - even given a potential $50k investment price, yet bitcoin's investment thesis is not weaker today, and there are some BIG institutions that are just coming into bitcoin, and they would have had never invested into bitcoin when it was lower prices because its marketcap was not enough and there were not enough other BIG players investing into bitcoin, and so these days some of the upside potential and strength of bitcoin's investment thesis is ONLY beginning to be known, which likely reinforces the strength of bitcoin's investment thesis,

even for some of the folks who might be investing into bitcoin but hardly having any clues in regards to what it is and they also may ONLY be investing into bitcoin through some kind of an investment vehicle (such as through spot BTC ETFs), merely based on the idea (someone may have told him or maybe he comes up to that idea himself) that number might go up..   I am not even suggesting that superficial ideas about bitcoin or even market sentiment would be good reasons to invest into bitcoin, even though those reasons do end up exacerbating bitcoin's likelihood to go up and even end up disproportionately putting a lot of extra upwards price pressures on bitcoin, since by law the spot BTC ETF managers have to maintain BTC holdings that match the BTC exposure that their clients have elected through the purchase of the spot BTC ETF shares that are purchased (or sold) by the client.

Because of the enormous potential payoff, it is often profitable to take a chance on Bitcoin, despite the inherent risk. It's similar to playing the lottery; but with far better odds. And I couldn't agree more with you on how you pointed out that it's not just about investing in Bitcoin, it's also about having your financial life in order and making sure you're not over-extending yourself.

In my opinion Finding a way to keep up with their other financial obligations is one of the biggest challenges for anyone looking to invest in Bitcoin. It's easy to get caught up in the hype and excitement of Bitcoin and lose sight of the fact that you still need to pay your bills and have money for emergencies.

It is funny (and/or strange) that frequently many normal people end up devolving into gambling practices when they invest because they do not adequately understand their own finances and psychology.. and sure, maybe they don't even need to have any kind of strong psychology as long as they set up their finances in such a way that is not devolving into gambling practices..

And, so I frequently claim that an overwhelming majority of people have abilities to manage their own finances, count how much income they have versus their expenses and to ONLY invest with their extra money (disposable/discretionary income that is the difference between their income and their expenses), yet part of the problem that they run into is that they do not employ enough discipline to both 1) think through their own finances for 3-6 months into the future (and continue to project into the future) and 2) to employ practices that make sure that they maintain enough of a cash cushion so that they will never have to dip into their investment (BTC in this case), so they frequently will end up using bitcoin (or anything else that they invest into) as part of their emergency fund, which remains a form of gambling that is likely to catch up with them the longer that they try to dance such sloppiness in their own practices..and it would be within their abilities to actually fix their errors if they were to spend some time thinking through the basic kinds of money management practices and employing those kinds of basics that would be to prepare themselves to never get into trouble and be forced to have to sell some or all of their investment (bitcoin in this case) at a time that is not 100% of their own preplanning and choosing.    

To invest in Bitcoin, some people might even be tempted to take out loans or incur debt, which is not a wise move. It is crucial to keep in mind that you should never invest more money than you are willing to lose.

Sure leverage tends to be dangerous, and it is a more advanced technique.  I am not opposed to leverage and/or taking out loans, but you have to have way to pay and service the loan that are other than being based on the anticipated price appreciation of the asset (bitcoin in this case).

I feel comfortable with long term strategy and since I don't have huge capital I accumulate in DCA manner. What I have learn so far is that time matter a lot if you are in bitcoin. The longer you have ability to hold more is your chances of great ROI. If you don't believe that then go check yourself from previous data. There will be more risk if you are investing for short duration. With time as we invest, the more we come to know about how to accumulate bitcoin for the long term.

You've hit the nail on the head when you say that one of the most crucial elements in investing in Bitcoin is time. Your chances of getting a good return on your investment increase with the length of time you can hang onto your Bitcoin. Similar to a snowball effect, your investment will increase over time. Additionally, as you mentioned, you'll gain more knowledge on how to maximize your investment over time. The misconception that most people have when investing in Bitcoin is that it's a get-rich-quick scheme, but that's clearly not the case and that if they just start investing in Bitcoin, they'd be rich in a month or two, and this infact is the actual reason why most Bitcoin investors go into the short-term trade and they end up loosing money and giving Bitcoin a bad name, they go all in without really having the knowledge of what they are doing and then at the end incur losses for themselves. Bitcoin is more of a long-term game, and if you really wanna rip the true benefit of Bitcoin, then going long-term will definitely help you achieve that.

So yeah.. 4-10 years or longer would be a good way to think about any bitcoin that you buy to have at least that kind of timeline, so if you are DCAing into bitcoin for 6 years straight, then your earliest BTC buys would have had reached investment timelines of 4-10 years or longer, but your latest purchases would not have had very much time to appreciate in value, so if you keep investing into BTC, then any new purchases, would also have 4-10 years or more for those later investments so you would likely see ways to measure the price appreciation of your various coins and the various purchase times, which seems to be partly what the tool of this thread would be helping longer term HODLers to be able to measure.. even though you may also have your own records and/or your own spreadsheet that might give you various numbers, but also you might be tracking your average cost per BTC which surely is different from the cost of your various BTC purchases that might end up being spread out over a decade or more.. once you are in bitcoin for a long enough time, you would likely have coins fitting in the various timeline categories - especially if you mostly held the coins rather than trading them and confusing your records.. and surely guys may end up doing a lot of things, besides merely holding their coins that may or may not end up working to their advantage if their goals might be to accumulate more BTC with the passage of time.. .

Holding really matters in investing in Bitcoin but it doesn't mean we have to do this our whole life. If we take a look at the price chart, prices are growing but can we think this will be the same trend in the next few years? Not for sure and it was uncertain. So I could say that holding will not be forever as it also depends on the market situation. Selling our Bitcoin during the bull season is a perfect option IMHO and get on the train back again once the market correction starts. But yes, this needs strong hands because waiting for 4 years is not as easy as people think as we need to deal our emotions as well.

How will you know that it is time to sell?  

And what if you don't have enough bitcoin, then how is selling going to help to keep you in the right mindset for accumulation and ongoingly building of your BTC stash rather than fucking around with attempts at getting in and out that either might not pay off, or might even cause you to spend way too much waiting when you should just be accumulating BTC..

ON the other hand if you have accumulated a lot of BTC, and if they are mostly in profits, then why would anyone be trying to fuck around with selling them and trying to get back in, unless maybe they are just selling a small portion of their stash at various price points.

If you have been in BTC since around the time of your forum registration date in February 2016, then has your tactic outperformed a relatively strict DCA practice?  Do you know how to measure such a thing?

And wow.. look at your forum registration date?  In 2 days, you are coming upon 8 years registered on the forum.. and so if you had invested $100 per week over the last 8 years, you would have had invested right around $42k into BTC, and you would have had accumulated right around 13.6 BTC (worth right around $673.2k - so clearly right around 16x price appreciation.   Even if your amounts were not the same, is your current BTC holdings valued around 16x price appreciation based on whatever you had been doing over the last 8 years?

Holding really matters in investing in Bitcoin but it doesn't mean we have to do this our whole life. If we take a look at the price chart, prices are growing but can we think this will be the same trend in the next few years? Not for sure and it was uncertain. So I could say that holding will not be forever as it also depends on the market situation. Selling our Bitcoin during the bull season is a perfect option IMHO and get on the train back again once the market correction starts. But yes, this needs strong hands because waiting for 4 years is not as easy as people think as we need to deal our emotions as well.

Here, what we're talking about is the retirement life, particularly a successful early retirement. Life will be enjoyable when we are able to make the future comfortable. Throughout his life, he isn't sacrificing anything or holding, he's just investing €500 every month without thinking about the market situation. This has now turned into a lot of money in terms of USD. As suggested, selling at the peak and buying back is a good choice, but for people who don't want to take risks, this is also a wise choice to make a better portfolio in cryptocurrency.

I agree with everything you said romero121 - except we are talking about bitcoin in this thread.. so I don't know why you chose to use such a dumbass vague term, because DCA does not apply to shitcoins.. so it is difficult to know what you meant if you chose not to use the word bitcoin.  Are you talking about bitcoin or something else, and if you are talking about bitcoin, then why the fuck did you not use the word bitcoin?  fuck shitcoins.. and dumbass vague, amorphous and misleading language that does not even really communicate anything except maybe that the person that is using that dumbass word does not know what is bitcoin or they are trying to act like they are smarter, when the use of the word makes them look dumb, since DCA does not apply to shitcoins...especially not in any kind of general way.. .. and even if you try to point out any specific shitcoin, it probably would not apply to that particular shitcoin either. but you did not point out any particular shitcoin that you might have had been thinking about when you used that word perhaps to try to appear smart, when you accomplished the opposite and may have mislead some of us at the same time regarding what the fuck you are talking about.^**


Edit:  ** by the way, I just looked at your profile and your forum registration date romero121.. You have been registered here right around 9 months longer than me (long enough for a baby), and so you should know better than using dumbass, vague and misleading language.

[Odohu]

Holding really matters in investing in Bitcoin but it doesn't mean we have to do this our whole life. If we take a look at the price chart, prices are growing but can we think this will be the same trend in the next few years? Not for sure and it was uncertain. So I could say that holding will not be forever as it also depends on the market situation. Selling our Bitcoin during the bull season is a perfect option IMHO and get on the train back again once the market correction starts. But yes, this needs strong hands because waiting for 4 years is not as easy as people think as we need to deal our emotions as well.

People have different reasons and target while investing in Bitcoin with this target determining, to a large extent, how they will going about selling and managing their portfolio. While majority of Bitcoin holders are looking at the profits they can possibly make from Bitcoin, a good number of Bitcoin investors including myself, already made up our mind to HODL Bitcoin as long as we live and even pass same to the next generation. Under this premise, selling during bull run is already out of the picture even though some could consider liquidating a portion of their Bitcoin stash with the aim of reinvesting same during bear season (this being just an option some people might consider while some will sell only when they want to pull out funds for other tangible projects that their emergency funds cannot cover).

So the pattern of selling off one's Bitcoin portfolio during bull market with the hope of buying them back during bear season may be good but not for everyone. In the end, it boil down to individual preference just like I explained before.

[MusaPk]

You've hit the nail on the head when you say that one of the most crucial elements in investing in Bitcoin is time. Your chances of getting a good return on your investment increase with the length of time you can hang onto your Bitcoin. Similar to a snowball effect, your investment will increase over time. Additionally, as you mentioned, you'll gain more knowledge on how to maximize your investment over time. The misconception that most people have when investing in Bitcoin is that it's a get-rich-quick scheme, but that's clearly not the case and that if they just start investing in Bitcoin, they'd be rich in a month or two, and this infact is the actual reason why most Bitcoin investors go into the short-term trade and they end up loosing money and giving Bitcoin a bad name, they go all in without really having the knowledge of what they are doing and then at the end incur losses for themselves. Bitcoin is more of a long-term game, and if you really wanna rip the true benefit of Bitcoin, then going long-term will definitely help you achieve that.

Bitcoin investment is combination of knowledge and patience. You need to have knowledge about how to invest in Bitcoin to get good return. We have discussed many investment strategies here i.e. DCA, LUMP SUM and buying on dips. Which every strategy you adopt (or you go with all three) the key to success is patience or HODL for long term without it you wont see good results.

So yeah.. 4-10 years or longer would be a good way to think about any bitcoin that you buy to have at least that kind of timeline, so if you are DCAing into bitcoin for 6 years straight, then your earliest BTC buys would have had reached investment timelines of 4-10 years or longer,

You already have a post where 6 different Hypo's are discussed that gives good idea of where you are if you are accumulating bitcoin for last 10 or 5 years.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5132720.msg63394117#msg63394117

[Wakate]

Holding really matters in investing in Bitcoin but it doesn't mean we have to do this our whole life. If we take a look at the price chart, prices are growing but can we think this will be the same trend in the next few years? Not for sure and it was uncertain. So I could say that holding will not be forever as it also depends on the market situation. Selling our Bitcoin during the bull season is a perfect option IMHO and get on the train back again once the market correction starts. But yes, this needs strong hands because waiting for 4 years is not as easy as people think as we need to deal our emotions as well.

Investors that have the experience and that had been holding for a long time could attest that it pays to hold but that might not be easy for everyone that is a Bitcoin investor. It takes courage for us to keep seeing our holding losing value continuously without knowing whether to sell to keep the remaining lost or to keep holding.

Although not all holdings are profitable so we need to know what we are doing so that we don't invest our funds in a bad project that will not make us to finally lose our funds. This is why Bitcoin is the only project in the crypto market that can give us what will want although the risk is also there for us to choose whether to be a long term holders or short term holders.

[Gormicsta]

[edited out]

Due to its uniqueness, Bitcoin has the potential for a significant asymmetric reward, which implies that the upside is far greater than the downside.

Consider some of the guys who might have invested $10k or less into bitcoin 8-12 years ago, and yeah of course, the earlier they invested the better, yet $10k for some folks might have had been a whimpy investment.. and even a $1k investment in 2012 might have gotten you close to 200 bitcoin, and surely some folks might consider that amount to have had been pretty whimpy, and so the return ended up being way more disproportionate to the upside as compared to the amount invested or the amount put at risk, even if you consider opportunity costs of the invested money and even if you consider that the money devalued over the next 8-12-ish years, depending on when the guy got into bitcoin.

Those that purchased Bitcoin at the beginning did, in fact, receive a very disproportionate return on their investment. Regarding opportunity cost, I totally agree. Even if someone bought Bitcoin with money that they could have invested in something else, the return on their Bitcoin investment would likely be much higher than the return they would have gotten on that other investment. Of course, all of this is hypothetical.

It is impossible to predict with certainty what would have happened if someone had chosen to invest in something other than Bitcoin. However, considering Bitcoin's potential return on investment in contrast to other viable options, such as stocks, bonds, real estate, or other assets, is still an intriguing thought. It's possible that Bitcoin has occasionally performed significantly better than those other investments. For instance, during the last ten years, the S&P 500 has returned roughly 7% annually on average, but during the same period, Bitcoin has gained over 200% annually on average.

Naturally, past performance does not guarantee future success, and as Bitcoin is far more erratic than the stock market, its returns can vary greatly from year to year. But there is certainly a chance for an enormous return on investment.

The power of compounding rewards is another intriguing point to consider. Compounding allows the return on your investment to gradually increase over time. For example, if you invest $1,000 and get a 10% return, you'll have $1,100 at the end of the year. But if you reinvest that $1,100 and get another 10% return, you'll have $1,210 at the end of the second year. And so it goes on and on. Therefore, the compounding effects of Bitcoin's returns may have led to a significantly higher gain over time than someone might have predicted, even if they had only invested a little amount of money. For instance, if a person had invested just $100 in 2010 and HODLED their BITCOIN, they would have accumulated over $300,000 by the end of 2021. Even if that's a very specific and uncommon situation, it's still intriguing to think about how Bitcoin investors' performance might have been influenced by compounding gains.

You've hit the nail on the head when you say that one of the most crucial elements in investing in Bitcoin is time. Your chances of getting a good return on your investment increase with the length of time you can hang onto your Bitcoin. Similar to a snowball effect, your investment will increase over time. Additionally, as you mentioned, you'll gain more knowledge on how to maximize your investment over time. The misconception that most people have when investing in Bitcoin is that it's a get-rich-quick scheme, but that's clearly not the case and that if they just start investing in Bitcoin, they'd be rich in a month or two, and this infact is the actual reason why most Bitcoin investors go into the short-term trade and they end up loosing money and giving Bitcoin a bad name, they go all in without really having the knowledge of what they are doing and then at the end incur losses for themselves. Bitcoin is more of a long-term game, and if you really wanna rip the true benefit of Bitcoin, then going long-term will definitely help you achieve that.

Bitcoin investment is combination of knowledge and patience. You need to have knowledge about how to invest in Bitcoin to get good return. We have discussed many investment strategies here i.e. DCA, LUMP SUM and buying on dips. Which every strategy you adopt (or you go with all three) the key to success is patience or HODL for long term without it you wont see good results.

Rightly said, every investor (Both Bitcoin as well as other assets) needs both knowledge and patience. It's not enough to just buy Bitcoin and hope for the best, you need to understand the market and the technology behind it because if you're not fully equipped with the knowledge you need to make certain decisions, you'll be exposed to lots of dangers that is capable of negatively impacting your investment and you might end up making wrong decisions and putting your investment in jeopardy.

 And you're also right that the key to success is often HODLing for the long term, rather than trying to time the market or make quick profits and it takes a great deal of patience to HODL. This is a lesson that many new Bitcoin investors learn the hard way.

[JayJuanGee]

You've hit the nail on the head when you say that one of the most crucial elements in investing in Bitcoin is time. Your chances of getting a good return on your investment increase with the length of time you can hang onto your Bitcoin. Similar to a snowball effect, your investment will increase over time. Additionally, as you mentioned, you'll gain more knowledge on how to maximize your investment over time. The misconception that most people have when investing in Bitcoin is that it's a get-rich-quick scheme, but that's clearly not the case and that if they just start investing in Bitcoin, they'd be rich in a month or two, and this infact is the actual reason why most Bitcoin investors go into the short-term trade and they end up loosing money and giving Bitcoin a bad name, they go all in without really having the knowledge of what they are doing and then at the end incur losses for themselves. Bitcoin is more of a long-term game, and if you really wanna rip the true benefit of Bitcoin, then going long-term will definitely help you achieve that.

Bitcoin investment is combination of knowledge and patience. You need to have knowledge about how to invest in Bitcoin to get good return. We have discussed many investment strategies here i.e. DCA, LUMP SUM and buying on dips. Which every strategy you adopt (or you go with all three) the key to success is patience or HODL for long term without it you wont see good results.

So yeah.. 4-10 years or longer would be a good way to think about any bitcoin that you buy to have at least that kind of timeline, so if you are DCAing into bitcoin for 6 years straight, then your earliest BTC buys would have had reached investment timelines of 4-10 years or longer,

You already have a post where 6 different Hypo's are discussed that gives good idea of where you are if you are accumulating bitcoin for last 10 or 5 years.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5132720.msg63394117#msg63394117

It is hard to rest on my laurels, and yeah sometimes I feel that I should put some of the ideas or structure of my prior posts into my investment ideas thread, so that I don't need to repeat work that I had already done.

For example, I am kind of proud of a post that I just did in regards to the compounding effects of bitcoin over the past 8-9 years.  Here's the relevant part.

.........So, let's look at the historical numbers and the timeline from 2015 to present again.

1) 0) $250  (2015)                                    1X
2)  1) $500  (2015-2016)                           2X
3) 2) $1,000    (2016-2017)        2X * 2 = 4X
4)  3) $2,000  (2017)                  4X * 2 = 8X
5)  4) $4,000  (2017-2020)          8X * 2 = 16X
6)  5) $8,000   (2017-2020)        16X * 2 = 32X
7)  6) $16,000  (2017-2022)       32X * 2 = 64X
8 )  7) $32,000  (2021-2023?)      64X * 2 = 128X
9)  8 ) $64,000  (2021-?)             128X * 2 = 256X
10)  9) $128,000  (?)                    256X * 2 = 512X

You can likely see that if you are shaving off profits at the earlier stages, then you are going to eat into the compounding (and/or exponential) component in regards to how your value would have had grown through that period of time.

So in this particular factual example the guys who bought in 2015 and had a base of $250 per BTC and who did not sell any of their BTC, they would have had experienced 8 doublings that would have brought their holdings up to 256x for a short period of time during the period that BTC was priced at more than $64k, and so then their amount of value would have come back down to 6 doublings when the BTC price dropped back down to around $16k (which would have been around 64x) and then now they are currently in the supra 7 doublings that would have been 128x when the BTC prices were at $32k, and they will be back to 256x once (or if) the BTC price gets back to supra $64k, and then if the BTC  price goes above $128k, then they will get into the supra 512x territory..

So each doubling now has much much greater magnifying effects as compared to the kind of smaller magnifying effects that would have had been felt in the first few of doublings.. so the power of the doublings tend to come later down the line, so long as the asset continues to go up in value and to have a kind of persistent effect.. .. something like a Lindy effect that suggest that the longer that something non-perishable (like an idea or a technology) is in existence and maintaining itself the more likely it is going to continue to be in existence.  

Of course, the bitcoin maximalist argument would assert that the Lindy effect applies to bitcoin more than it does to various shitcoins, but the theoretical idea of the Lindy effect is not completely absent from various shitcoins, even if some of the ideas and/or innovations of shitcoins (if they come up with any that involve anything worthwhile besides scamming people) may well have decently good chances to get absorbed into bitcoin. 

Holding really matters in investing in Bitcoin but it doesn't mean we have to do this our whole life. If we take a look at the price chart, prices are growing but can we think this will be the same trend in the next few years? Not for sure and it was uncertain. So I could say that holding will not be forever as it also depends on the market situation. Selling our Bitcoin during the bull season is a perfect option IMHO and get on the train back again once the market correction starts. But yes, this needs strong hands because waiting for 4 years is not as easy as people think as we need to deal our emotions as well.

Investors that have the experience and that had been holding for a long time could attest that it pays to hold but that might not be easy for everyone that is a Bitcoin investor. It takes courage for us to keep seeing our holding losing value continuously without knowing whether to sell to keep the remaining lost or to keep holding.

So far in bitcoin's history it has been a good practice for BTC accumulators to just continue to buy and to reassess from time to time in terms of how aggressive that they are able to continue to buy, and maybe after 4 years or so (a full cycle) of buying, you might start to get some ideas about whether (and if so how) to adjust the previously employed BTC accumulation strategies.  Of course, there are no guarantees, so it is probably best to figure out some kind of a buying pattern that is comfortable, and even though history does not guarantee future results, there are not real and/or meaningful signs that bitcoin's investment thesis if getting any weaker (rather than stronger) over the coming years.

Although not all holdings are profitable so we need to know what we are doing so that we don't invest our funds in a bad project that will not make us to finally lose our funds.

Yeah.. fuck shitcoins.. stick with bitcoin... don't be fucking around with imitations or diversification or some other bullshit distracting and lame investing/gambling/trading ideas that lure you into failing/refusing to sufficiently/adequately stack bitcoins in as aggressive as a way that you can without over doing it.

This is why Bitcoin is the only project in the crypto market that can give us what will want although the risk is also there for us to choose whether to be a long term holders or short term holders.

If you don't know about whether to be a short term or a long term holder of bitcoin, then you likely need to learn about bitcoin, but if you don't know very much about bitcoin and you are concerned about your bitcoin investment, then probably you should tamper down your investment in order that you don't panic... and so it is better to buy and hold a long time rather than overdoing it and then having to sell your BTC at a time that is anything other than your own choosing.

[edited out]

Those that purchased Bitcoin at the beginning did, in fact, receive a very disproportionate return on their investment. Regarding opportunity cost, I totally agree. Even if someone bought Bitcoin with money that they could have invested in something else, the return on their Bitcoin investment would likely be much higher than the return they would have gotten on that other investment. Of course, all of this is hypothetical.

When we are looking at past performance of various portfolios it is not hypothetical to compare them, even though we could take hypothetical examples, or we could even compare our own performance to a hypothetical example, such as someone who might have DCA'd into BTC versus if he had invested in some other various kinds of investment opportunities that he might have had at various points in time.

Surely, we cannot go back in time and change what we did, but we can choose the extent to which we might want to be aggressive in our bitcoin investment now or the extent to which we might want to employ a more aggressive bitcoin investment strategy - and we still might end up making mistakes because we cannot necessarily know the extent to which any strategy that we start to employ now might pay off - yet if we are ongoingly assessing our own situation and we are attempting to employ good practices, we likely would end up improving the chances that our investments would pay off over the passage of time, especially if we make sure to include (and maybe even prioritize) bitcoin accumulation into what we are doing...and maybe even more important for those who either don't have any bitcoin or do not have very many bitcoin. 

It is impossible to predict with certainty what would have happened if someone had chosen to invest in something other than Bitcoin.

When it comes to history, if you know their budget then you can plot out what would have happened in terms of if you are describing some kind of a buying strategy, but if you are going from right now, you don't necessarily know what is going to happen, but you can still create a buying approach that increases your likelihood for success, especially if you are able to establish some kind of an investment timeline that is 4-10 years or longer. 

If you investment timeline is shorter than 4 years, then maybe you should not be investing in bitcoin, but hey people can do what they like.

However, considering Bitcoin's potential return on investment in contrast to other viable options, such as stocks, bonds, real estate, or other assets, is still an intriguing thought. It's possible that Bitcoin has occasionally performed significantly better than those other investments. For instance, during the last ten years, the S&P 500 has returned roughly 7% annually on average, but during the same period, Bitcoin has gained over 200% annually on average.

Sure, something like that.  When I look at my own investment portfolio prior to bitcoin and see my bitcoin performance in the past 10 years, my traditional portfolio came close to doubling, and my bitcoin holdings had gone up around 52x, and yeah there is going to be variation in terms of how much anyone might be able to put into any asset, and I did a bit of a run down of my own allocations between late 2013 and mid-2022.. I have not updated it in the last 18 months... but maybe I will in the future... and the bitcoin portion smoked everything else.

Naturally, past performance does not guarantee future success, and as Bitcoin is far more erratic than the stock market, its returns can vary greatly from year to year. But there is certainly a chance for an enormous return on investment.

Bitcoin likely remains amongst the best, if not the best current investment, and guys can choose their own path, including their own allocation choices.  And, yeah, it is not guaranteed, but it remains very sound money, if any of us might not have had noticed.

The power of compounding rewards is another intriguing point to consider. Compounding allows the return on your investment to gradually increase over time. For example, if you invest $1,000 and get a 10% return, you'll have $1,100 at the end of the year. But if you reinvest that $1,100 and get another 10% return, you'll have $1,210 at the end of the second year. And so it goes on and on. Therefore, the compounding effects of Bitcoin's returns may have led to a significantly higher gain over time than someone might have predicted, even if they had only invested a little amount of money. For instance, if a person had invested just $100 in 2010 and HODLED their BITCOIN, they would have accumulated over $300,000 by the end of 2021. Even if that's a very specific and uncommon situation, it's still intriguing to think about how Bitcoin investors' performance might have been influenced by compounding gains.

Yep.. compounding is very powerful especially if we might well be considering doublings in value, as I posted on it earlier today.. and referred to it above in my response to MusaPk.

[iBaba]

Rightly said, every investor (Both Bitcoin as well as other assets) needs both knowledge and patience. It's not enough to just buy Bitcoin and hope for the best, you need to understand the market and the technology behind it because if you're not fully equipped with the knowledge you need to make certain decisions, you'll be exposed to lots of dangers that is capable of negatively impacting your investment and you might end up making wrong decisions and putting your investment in jeopardy.

 And you're also right that the key to success is often HODLing for the long term, rather than trying to time the market or make quick profits and it takes a great deal of patience to HODL. This is a lesson that many new Bitcoin investors learn the hard way.

These are some of the pivotal aspects of Bitcoin that I want a lot of people to understand. The kind of perception we had about Bitcoin earlier was that it was a get-rich-quick money platform where you just put in some funds and tomorrow you expect it to grow bigger than normal. But that was not the case.

The truth is that Bitcoin is just like any other asset out there. It grows over time as the market is being patronized. The only difference that Bitcoin has over centralized currencies online is that it is a decentralized platform or asset where people jointly contribute to the growth and development of each, and also to the uptrend of the market, rather than just a government or a few sort of people deciding the fate of the currency.

This is, in fact, the reason why Bitcoin would continue to be an outstanding advancement in the financial technologies sector. Because the world is moving towards a world of freedom where individuals can have financial freedom and breakthrough through their own means, not influenced by a few people in the government or so. But many of us, like myself, thought Bitcoin was a get-rich-quick money platform where you just sink in some funds and expect magic to happen tomorrow.

 And as we were studying the processes over time, we came to realize that that was not the case. Because this kind of situation creates fear in your mind and there are just misconceptions that were probably propaganda flagged by the government so that people would be discouraged from the use of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.

But because of the consistency of Bitcoin and how it has grown over time, which the decentralization has really helped in the longevity of the currency and how it has been able to stand the test of time, now the government cannot fully lay out campaigns that would negate the use of Bitcoin because people have become more knowledgeable and gaining more understanding of what Bitcoin stands for. And it has grown over time. For those that have believed in the process, at those very critical moments that Bitcoin needed people to believe in it, they are the users that have benefited immensely today. Indeed, everything in life needs consistency.

[Shamm]

Holding really matters in investing in Bitcoin but it doesn't mean we have to do this our whole life. If we take a look at the price chart, prices are growing but can we think this will be the same trend in the next few years? Not for sure and it was uncertain. So I could say that holding will not be forever as it also depends on the market situation. Selling our Bitcoin during the bull season is a perfect option IMHO and get on the train back again once the market correction starts. But yes, this needs strong hands because waiting for 4 years is not as easy as people think as we need to deal our emotions as well.

Investors that have the experience and that had been holding for a long time could attest that it pays to hold but that might not be easy for everyone that is a Bitcoin investor. It takes courage for us to keep seeing our holding losing value continuously without knowing whether to sell to keep the remaining lost or to keep holding.

Although not all holdings are profitable so we need to know what we are doing so that we don't invest our funds in a bad project that will not make us to finally lose our funds. This is why Bitcoin is the only project in the crypto market that can give us what will want although the risk is also there for us to choose whether to be a long term holders or short term holders.

Your right that mate everyone of us know that holding is not for our whole life which is we need to matter the situation like the market we need to study first before we are going to hold a coins cause if we hold a bad coins then we will loss our money,. Unlike we hold a good and trusted coins even though the price will go up and down then for sure in the future we will have a good profit.  Also we need self discipline and self control in holding cause the price is volatile which is it will change every now and then. So we need to do some research if we are going to sell our coins or still we will hold it.

[Nanga Parbat]

Bitcoin likely remains amongst the best, if not the best current investment, and guys can choose their own path, including their own allocation choices.  And, yeah, it is not guaranteed, but it remains very sound money, if any of us might not have had noticed.

Bitcoin is the king coin of cryptocurrencies and is considered by some to be a great investment vehicle.
 Like you said @JayJuanGee, there are no guarantees or guarantees on Bitcoin.  Its price depends on market changes and has high volatility, which means you are at risk of losing your money.  Is it an good decision to invest in Bitcoin again?

[gunhell16]

What OP said is okay; as long as you want to hold on long-term, follow what you want to do. But of course, you should first know what you are trying to invest in in the crypto space. We have a lot to choose from besides Bitcoin because there are other top altcoins on the market.

Holding long-term is also important because if we don't have enough knowledge, this is the safest thing to do so that we can make a profit while we know or study whether it is Bitcoin or another cryptocurrency.

[ivankoh]

These are some of the pivotal aspects of Bitcoin that I want a lot of people to understand. The kind of perception we had about Bitcoin earlier was that it was a get-rich-quick money platform where you just put in some funds and tomorrow you expect it to grow bigger than normal. But that was not the case.

My view may be wrong but I think it is a use case for bitcoin. Bitcoin gives people freedom with their decisions and actions. You're probably referring to the early stages of bitcoin's popularity. Yes, I think the bitcoin story has really changed the world, currently the assets are 1000 billion and with the current position and development, no one wants to sell their bitcoins quickly. Whether they expect much or not, that is also the result they want. From bitcoin make money the way they want. Surely that is the mindset that each person must be aware of when buying bitcoin to use, invest, pay, keep assets...

[MusaPk]

It is hard to rest on my laurels, and yeah sometimes I feel that I should put some of the ideas or structure of my prior posts into my investment ideas thread, so that I don't need to repeat work that I had already done.

This is something badly required. All your previous posts must be gathered at one central place for quick reference. i have to spend time finding that 6 Hypo's post and that can be avoided if there is a central place where all posts are residing.

.........So, let's look at the historical numbers and the timeline from 2015 to present again.

1) 0) $250  (2015)                                    1X
2)  1) $500  (2015-2016)                           2X
3) 2) $1,000    (2016-2017)        2X * 2 = 4X
4)  3) $2,000  (2017)                  4X * 2 = 8X
5)  4) $4,000  (2017-2020)          8X * 2 = 16X
6)  5) $8,000   (2017-2020)        16X * 2 = 32X
7)  6) $16,000  (2017-2022)       32X * 2 = 64X
8 )  7) $32,000  (2021-2023?)      64X * 2 = 128X
9)  8 ) $64,000  (2021-?)             128X * 2 = 256X
10)  9) $128,000  (?)                    256X * 2 = 512X

This is an excellent chart for anyone who want to see how your Bitcoin value increases with time or see the Bitcoin compounding effect over a period of 10 years. We don't know what's coming ahead but this price chart is clear indication that something big will be coming in next few years. I will also bookmark this post like the 6 Hypo's post for ready reference.
With such data in hand, one must not worried about future price of Bitcoin. You just need to invest in Bitcoin (lump sum, dca or buying on dips) then all you need is patience to HODL that for at least 5 years. It's not that complicated.

[JayJuanGee]

Bitcoin likely remains amongst the best, if not the best current investment, and guys can choose their own path, including their own allocation choices.  And, yeah, it is not guaranteed, but it remains very sound money, if any of us might not have had noticed.

Bitcoin is the king coin of cryptocurrencies and is considered by some to be a great investment vehicle.
 Like you said @JayJuanGee, there are no guarantees or guarantees on Bitcoin.  Its price depends on market changes and has high volatility, which means you are at risk of losing your money.  Is it an good decision to invest in Bitcoin again?

You seem to be comparing bitcoin to shitcoins, and surely in my earlier comments, I was not considering shitcoins - and if anything, I was comparing bitcoin to any investment category of asset and/or currency, so the other traditional asset classes that any of us might consider to include in our investment portfolio would be equities (such as stocks), property, commodities, bonds and/or cash or cash equivalents. .not referring to shitcoins.

Your decision about whether to invest into bitcoin or to continue to invest into bitcoin might partly relate to whether you already have any, and if you don't have any, then surely it seems that everyone should be considering at least getting off zero and probably allocating 5% to 25% of their quasi-liquid investment portfolio into bitcoin. .. and surely each person has to choose for themselves in regards to both the questions of whether to invest into bitcoin and if so then, how much. 

There are surely a lot of people in the world that do not have any investments, and they also might be living in such a way that they might not have very much income that exceeds their expenses, and so surely, people who do not have much if any investments based on their relatively low level of discretionary/disposable income, they will need to make sure that the are taking from their discretionary/disposable income, and sometimes they might need to attempt to increase their income and to cut their expenses and if they are not used to investing into anything then they also may need to increase their emergency fund, cash reserves and/or cash float so that they will never have to sell any of their investment  (into bitcoin in this case) at a time that is anything other than completely their own choosing.

What OP said is okay; as long as you want to hold on long-term, follow what you want to do. But of course, you should first know what you are trying to invest in in the crypto space. We have a lot to choose from besides Bitcoin because there are other top altcoins on the market.

Fuck shitcoins.

We are talking about bitcoin in this thread, so who cares that there exists a bunch of shitcoins that you could choose from, unless you are inclined towards gambling.

Holding long-term is also important because if we don't have enough knowledge, this is the safest thing to do so that we can make a profit while we know or study whether it is Bitcoin or another cryptocurrency.

Sure, there are a lot of people who are confused about bitcoin versus various shitcoins, but they probably don't really know what bitcoin is, and so then they get confused about what they should invest into.  Hopefully, if someone learns about bitcoin first and invests into bitcoin, then at least if s./he decides to venture into various shitcoins and to gamble, then at least he started with bitcoin first. 

Another thing is that if you are so damned tempted to gamble on various shitcoins, then if you at least limit your allocations into shitcoins to less than 10% of the size of your bitcoin investment, then at least you will have placed some boundaries upon the level of your distractions and temptations... but yeah, there are a lot of folks who cannot limit their temptations to gamble to something like less than 10%, so they will likely have to learn by getting burnt, even if their goals might have been to invest, they might not have either learned the difference between investing and gambling, and they are exercising practices to reinforce their continued failure/refusal to learn how to invest rather than to gamble.. and that there is actually a meaningful difference.

[CryptoHeadlineNews]

Another thing is that if you are so damned tempted to gamble on various shitcoins, then if you at least limit your allocations into shitcoins to less than 10% of the size of your bitcoin investment, then at least you will have placed some boundaries upon the level of your distractions and temptations... but yeah, there are a lot of folks who cannot limit their temptations to gamble to something like less than 10%, so they will likely have to learn by getting burnt, even if their goals might have been to invest, they might not have either learned the difference between investing and gambling, and they are exercising practices to reinforce their continued failure/refusal to learn how to invest rather than to gamble.. and that there is actually a meaningful difference.

Yes, you are right, and it could only take people like us who have had a good knowledge about cryptocurrencies to know the difference about investing and gambling as regards to crypto, and by that I mean (i.e buying Bitcoin = Investing) due to it's low volatility likely to increase in value when hold over a longer period of time, whereas (i.e buying shitcoins = Gambling) due to it's high volatility nature, likely to either skyrocket so high, low or probably crash, depending on the nature of project and market support. Hence, it remains a wise decision people keep a handful of their investment into Bitcoin (above 90%), while they gamble not more than 10% on coins with a strong social media presence and total supply not more than 20 millions coins.

[Gormicsta]

.

[edited out]

Those that purchased Bitcoin at the beginning did, in fact, receive a very disproportionate return on their investment. Regarding opportunity cost, I totally agree. Even if someone bought Bitcoin with money that they could have invested in something else, the return on their Bitcoin investment would likely be much higher than the return they would have gotten on that other investment. Of course, all of this is hypothetical.

When we are looking at past performance of various portfolios it is not hypothetical to compare them, even though we could take hypothetical examples, or we could even compare our own performance to a hypothetical example, such as someone who might have DCA'd into BTC versus if he had invested in some other various kinds of investment opportunities that he might have had at various points in time.

Surely, we cannot go back in time and change what we did, but we can choose the extent to which we might want to be aggressive in our bitcoin investment now or the extent to which we might want to employ a more aggressive bitcoin investment strategy - and we still might end up making mistakes because we cannot necessarily know the extent to which any strategy that we start to employ now might pay off - yet if we are ongoingly assessing our own situation and we are attempting to employ good practices, we likely would end up improving the chances that our investments would pay off over the passage of time, especially if we make sure to include (and maybe even prioritize) bitcoin accumulation into what we are doing...and maybe even more important for those who either don't have any bitcoin or do not have very many bitcoin. 

You can learn a lot about and refine your strategy by comparing historical portfolios, (your own or others'), to hypothetical portfolios. It's also interesting to consider the potential earnings if one had chosen to invest in Bitcoin at different times rather than other assets. This could be a helpful exercise to weigh the possible risks and rewards of potential future investments.

It's not just about buying and selling in the short term to try and make a quick profit, but rather about making a commitment to accumulating Bitcoin over time, understanding that the true potential of the technology may not be fully realized by using the short-term approach.

In the early days of Bitcoin, there were a lot of people who were drawn to the idea of getting rich quick by investing in this new and mysterious technology. These were often referred to as "get rich quick" investors, and they tended to focus on short-term gains rather than the long-term potential of the technology. However, over time, the market has matured, and many people have realized that Bitcoin is a long-term investment, and that to really see the benefits, you need to be patient and committed to accumulating over time, but a lot investors are still myopic about this fact and still holding on to the old and outdated technique of Bitcoin investment.

[JayJuanGee]

.

[edited out]

Those that purchased Bitcoin at the beginning did, in fact, receive a very disproportionate return on their investment. Regarding opportunity cost, I totally agree. Even if someone bought Bitcoin with money that they could have invested in something else, the return on their Bitcoin investment would likely be much higher than the return they would have gotten on that other investment. Of course, all of this is hypothetical.

When we are looking at past performance of various portfolios it is not hypothetical to compare them, even though we could take hypothetical examples, or we could even compare our own performance to a hypothetical example, such as someone who might have DCA'd into BTC versus if he had invested in some other various kinds of investment opportunities that he might have had at various points in time.

Surely, we cannot go back in time and change what we did, but we can choose the extent to which we might want to be aggressive in our bitcoin investment now or the extent to which we might want to employ a more aggressive bitcoin investment strategy - and we still might end up making mistakes because we cannot necessarily know the extent to which any strategy that we start to employ now might pay off - yet if we are ongoingly assessing our own situation and we are attempting to employ good practices, we likely would end up improving the chances that our investments would pay off over the passage of time, especially if we make sure to include (and maybe even prioritize) bitcoin accumulation into what we are doing...and maybe even more important for those who either don't have any bitcoin or do not have very many bitcoin. 

You can learn a lot about and refine your strategy by comparing historical portfolios, (your own or others'), to hypothetical portfolios. It's also interesting to consider the potential earnings if one had chosen to invest in Bitcoin at different times rather than other assets. This could be a helpful exercise to weigh the possible risks and rewards of potential future investments.

It's not just about buying and selling in the short term to try and make a quick profit, but rather about making a commitment to accumulating Bitcoin over time, understanding that the true potential of the technology may not be fully realized by using the short-term approach.

In the early days of Bitcoin, there were a lot of people who were drawn to the idea of getting rich quick by investing in this new and mysterious technology. These were often referred to as "get rich quick" investors, and they tended to focus on short-term gains rather than the long-term potential of the technology. However, over time, the market has matured, and many people have realized that Bitcoin is a long-term investment, and that to really see the benefits, you need to be patient and committed to accumulating over time, but a lot investors are still myopic about this fact and still holding on to the old and outdated technique of Bitcoin investment.

I doubt that it is a good framework to suggest that bitcoin investors are more mature now than they were in the past, because there were surely a lot of people who got into bitcoin for the tech and maybe they also ended up getting rich along the way, yet it is not fair to generalize about the gambling tendencies improving because there are always going to be gamblers and there are always going to be different types of investors..and even the new players who might be very rich, they may well also make a lot of the same mistakes that earlier investors made - and I would still suggest that we are very early stages to bitcoin, even though we also know that bitcoin is continuing to get stronger the longer and longer that it exists including that bitcoin's network effects (referring to the 7 network effects described by Trace Mayer) are continuing to grown. 

It is difficult to know what level of adoption bitcoin has, and I have my doubts that it has even reached 1% of the world's population, even though we have rich folks and rich institutions currently coming into bitcoin, including some of them entering through the newly approved Spot ETFs.  These guys are neither imuned from gambling tendencies or making mistakes of the past, including but not limited to mistakes made that led up to a lot of the 2022 cascading crashes of Terra/Luna, Celsius, Blockfi, 3AC, Voyager, FTX, Alameda Research,  Genesis (perhaps involving Grayscale) and probably some others that I am forgetting about...

I don't include Binance in my criticisms, even though Binance and CZ were persecuted and likely coopted by the US Govt.. which who knows exactly how that is going to play out, and it appears just a few days ago CZ's sentencing was delayed for 2 months until the end of April.

https://www.ccn.com/news/binance-founder-czs-sentencing-pushed-back-reasons-unknown/

[Gormicsta]

 
It is difficult to know what level of adoption bitcoin has, and I have my doubts that it has even reached 1% of the world's population, even though we have rich folks and rich institutions currently coming into bitcoin, including some of them entering through the newly approved Spot ETFs.  These guys are neither imuned from gambling tendencies or making mistakes of the past, including but not limited to mistakes made that led up to a lot of the 2022 cascading crashes of Terra/Luna, Celsius, Blockfi, 3AC, Voyager, FTX, Alameda Research,  Genesis (perhaps involving Grayscale) and probably some others that I am forgetting about...

Indeed, there isn't a precise metrics to gauge how widely Bitcoin is adopted. Some may choose to consider the quantity of daily transactions or the number of Bitcoin wallets that are currently in use. However, these gauges are limited to certain factors.

However, despite its rather low adoption rate, Bitcoin is nevertheless having a significant effect on the financial system. For instance, the collapse of FTX has effects in both the traditional finance and cryptocurrency sectors. Therefore, even if just a small portion of people use Bitcoin, its impact is far bigger than that statistic would imply.

 Well, I think On the one hand, Bitcoin has been around for more than a decade now, and it's had a number of major price fluctuations, crashes, and comebacks. So it's certainly not a new technology. However, until it becomes  commonly used for transactions, there is still a long way to go. As of right now, the majority of its users are investors; regular people use it less frequently for tasks like paying bills or buying groceries. Therefore, I believe it to be in the middle of the "early" and "mature" areas.

It also appears that ignorance of the underlying technology contributed to some of the mistakes committed in the past. For instance, the Terra/Luna scenario resulted from a crash caused by an algorithmic stablecoin design error. Also, FTX's inability to accurately account for customer deposits was a contributing factor in their bankruptcy. I don't really think there are many fundamental flaws with Bitcoin itself, I believe it's more about how it's being implemented, which I believe could be readjusted as the day goes by.

[JayJuanGee]

It is difficult to know what level of adoption bitcoin has, and I have my doubts that it has even reached 1% of the world's population, even though we have rich folks and rich institutions currently coming into bitcoin, including some of them entering through the newly approved Spot ETFs.  These guys are neither imuned from gambling tendencies or making mistakes of the past, including but not limited to mistakes made that led up to a lot of the 2022 cascading crashes of Terra/Luna, Celsius, Blockfi, 3AC, Voyager, FTX, Alameda Research,  Genesis (perhaps involving Grayscale) and probably some others that I am forgetting about...

Indeed, there isn't a precise metrics to gauge how widely Bitcoin is adopted. Some may choose to consider the quantity of daily transactions or the number of Bitcoin wallets that are currently in use. However, these gauges are limited to certain factors.

Of course, imprecise in terms of both measuring the number of actual people - and then also figuring out the extent to which bitcoin might be fractionally reserved in a variety of ways since some of the BIG bitcoin wallets are connected to various 3rd party custodians, such as exchanges or various financial product providers (ETFs and those kinds of institutions)...

So we surely have measures in regards to how much adoption is increasing in a variety of ways and we can infer usage from quite a few of the various metrics, including make inferences about the kinds of users through tracing some of the histories of wallets... and perhaps even identifying various black holes with lightning network private and public channels that may or may not be traceable... and maybe i am not quibbling as much about these kinds of matters with you, even though I am quibbling with your overall assertion that there are fewer gamblers in bitcoin now and even that there are more adults in the room because the BIGGER players are coming into the picture, and surely your assertion is NOT totally untrue, but I don't like it because it is seeming to generalize too much and to accept too many mainstream characterizations that even implicitly criticize earlier adopters for being gambler types and immature - even though there is some truth in it, I still consider it to be an unfair picture, including that it seems to imply that richer players and institutions are not acting like that (when they are able to, and sometimes subtly scandalously and also playing with others money, too)... and sure maybe in the end, I am quibbling over relatively small details since we largely don't disagree.

However, despite its rather low adoption rate, Bitcoin is nevertheless having a significant effect on the financial system. For instance, the collapse of FTX has effects in both the traditional finance and cryptocurrency sectors. Therefore, even if just a small portion of people use Bitcoin, its impact is far bigger than that statistic would imply.

The mere fact that bitcoin has a lot of large impacts also goes towards various attempts to manipulate it and to use it in a variety of ways and spread misinformation.. so, even though I agree that there are all kinds of disproportionate impacts that bitcoin is having, there is also all kinds of misinformation pieces out there that characterize bitcoin in negative ways and continue to disproportionately negatively affect normies from getting into bitcoin when they should... so probably since I got in, there have been all kinds of characterization that bitcoin is growing too fast and its mature and all kinds of bullshit that cause a lot of normies to conclude that they are too late and even if they invest into bitcoin, they are also quick to pull out because they wrongly conclude that any continued upwards price movements are not sustainable.. I hate to create any impression that bitcoin is anywhere close to mature or to imply that people have missed the boat or two suggest that bitcoin's irresponsible days are over. . or that even bitcoin's ongoing violent volatility (in either direction) is over.. even though surely more and more rich people are getting into bitcoin in attempts to front run retail and normies..

but so far the numbers of entrance of even the rich people into bitcoin are still relatively small even though it is seeming like it is BIG... and also there likely are a small numbers of the rich folks and institutions that truly are stocking up on bitcoin (like Saylor - outwardly open about it).. and so those who are coming to bitcoin earlier are still able to front run a lot of normies (retail) and also able to front-run a lot of institutions, including blackrock, even though surely Blackrock is currently publicly ongoingly taking BiG chunks of bitcoin and surely anyone still acquiring bitcoin right now is lucky that the BTC price is not moving up as fast as it could be, even though the window to 5 digit bitcoin may well end up ending soon.. and surely no guarantees.. . .but it seems that any newbies should be ongoingly striving to get as many bitcoin as they can while 5 digit prices last, whether that is the next month or two or maybe it could last for another whole cycle (such as 4 years), but I have my doubts.

Well, I think On the one hand, Bitcoin has been around for more than a decade now, and it's had a number of major price fluctuations, crashes, and comebacks. So it's certainly not a new technology. However, until it becomes  commonly used for transactions, there is still a long way to go.

Failure of incentives to transact is not completely the fault of bitcoin, and so if countries are unfriendly to bitcoin, then they impose disincentives in regards to transacting in bitcoin... Technically, it pretty easy to transact with bitcoin.

So criticizing bitcoin for its ease of transactability, or lack thereof is more likely a political problem.. and sure there also can be some claims that bitcoin fees are too high, yet there are likely some less than organic forces pushing that direction... so surely, a lot of smaller players might be discouraged to adopt bitcoin because of fee matters and confusion about fee matters and confusion about how to hold their coins without creating hundreds of $10 transactions.

Bitcoin's stronger value proposition has to do with the difficulties to censor it.. which is quite threatening to various powers that be that don't like people to have freedom or privacy and they want to get into the middle of transactions to be able to try to control them and to extract value from the transactions, and so in a variety of regards battles are going to continue, but it is not going to stop richer people from trying to front run retail, when bitcoin is more likely a tool for poor people rather than rich people, even though rich people are in a better place to take advantage of it and also not to be discouraged by misinformation regarding the ongoing needs to send $10 transactions on chain...

So yeah there are likely going to continue to be barriers towards both adoption and poor people realizing that bitcoin is something that they should be acquiring.. and likely even a lot of current bitcoin holders are low coiners who don't realize that they don't have enough bitcoin, even though you don't necessarily need a lot of it, but still there are advantages to actually realizing that bitcoin is no where near to a mature asset class in terms of adoption or a variety of important variables, even though there are some bitcoin hoarders who are pushing up the prices for everyone else and some of those bitcoin hoarders (the rich folks) might also be contributing to various negative dynamics that put informational and even financial obstacles in front of normies, no coiners and low coiners in terms of benefits that they would get from getting more bitcoin price exposure and/or owning bitcoin directly.

As of right now, the majority of its users are investors; regular people use it less frequently for tasks like paying bills or buying groceries. Therefore, I believe it to be in the middle of the "early" and "mature" areas.

I am tempted to say that is a dumb framing, even though you are not wrong.  Anyone who is wanting to get into bitcoin and to benefit from it better start accumulating it and as much as they can.. like an investor and/or like a speculator. and yeah surely down the road more and more abilities are going to continue to develop... and yeah, these problems have existed in bitcoin since I got in and maybe even merchants who adopt the ability to receive bitcoin and then give up and some of them got screwed by having hundreds of $10 or less transactions that might be currently difficult (and maybe even financially unfeasible to move)... but so what?  I think these dynamics continue to show bitcoin as early days and sometimes having both forward and backwards steps, and it is difficult to expect that progress is going to be continuous and linear.. even though BTC price growth is exponential, especially if you look at it from 2012 to present.. or even if you might choose some other dates and zoom out a bit beyond various ongoing persistent short-term dilemmas.

It also appears that ignorance of the underlying technology contributed to some of the mistakes committed in the past. For instance, the Terra/Luna scenario resulted from a crash caused by an algorithmic stablecoin design error.

Maybe I forgot to say fuck crypto.. we should be trying to focus on bitcoin here.. but yeah, there are various kinds of gamblers related to bitcoin and scammers and it is likely that that dick-twat Kwon Do already knew about the technological problems in both the way that he designed his scam coin, the way he marketed it and the way that he supposedly bought bitcoin to peg the value.  and gamblers are going to gamble and scammers are going to scam.. and when there are all kinds of potential for loop holes for pyramid schemes for rug pulling regulars, including that likely venture capitalists (such as Mike Novogratz with that Terra/Luna tatoo) twats were part of various aspects of these kinds of scams that got their money in early, pumped the shitcoin project and got a lot of their money out prior to regular folks who some of the regular folks got burnt more than others and sure some rich people got burnt in it too. but there have been systemized ways to pump scams in the "crypto" and bitcoin space, which is probably not so much a criticism of bitcoin, even though bitcoin does empower the abilities of scammers to scam..so you better be careful.. and you might or might not end up on the right side of the crash. .which I think my earlier examples have those kinds of stories in which some individuals have been able to escape getting reckt and others not.. which also is likely not going away in this upcoming cycle. merely because there are perceptions that adults are in the room.. but the bigger players also try to fuck around with systems, so they are going to fuck around and find out with bitcoin too.. and we will find out the extent to which bitcoin is able to sustain the ongoing fuckery that is likely to continue in similar ways, different ways and even ways that are still to be learned(discovered).

Also, FTX's inability to accurately account for customer deposits was a contributing factor in their bankruptcy.

Surely they did not even have bitcoin... and they were faking value by printing their own coin (FTT).. which ended up coming to bite them in the ass fairly rapidly, and the level of shenanigans and likely insider dealing that includes people who have not been prosecuted and held to account continues.. so let's see what happens with that slimy little unsympathetic virtue signaling narcissistic twat.. SBF.

I don't really think there are many fundamental flaws with Bitcoin itself, I believe it's more about how it's being implemented, which I believe could be readjusted as the day goes by.

Bitcoin is decentralized and open source, so it is likely best to consider it in terms of it is what it is.. instead of thinking about if it could be implemented in some other way.. it is not really being implemented (except maybe it was implemented in 2008, 2009 and maybe into 2010 until satoshi disappeared. and thereafter, it was left to exist and to be developed upon.. .. so yeah, people will find ways to use it or to build upon it.. and to propose changes that may or may not end up getting adopted... some people might be more influential than others, so if you think something needs to be implemented or changed, then you can make proposals.. or to try to make changes that build upon bitcoin. . or other possibilities is to fork bitcoin into another form an try to get people to come over to your fork..