HODL bitcoins, you can do it! Look at HODL camp map to build up strong hands

[batang_bitcoin]

That's what matters when you're holding bitcoin. You shouldn't depend on it as if it's going to give you daily income. The profit that you'll get from it will be coming from how long you hold it as the market gets into fruition and takes time in doing so. Most of the holders that are successful understood this matter and they have just left their Bitcoin on hold and does their things while waiting for its value to pump. Unlike the newbies that think that it's different the way you've described it, they don't realize that they need to have other source still.

Exactly and that shouldn't have been the thing that someone should be doing with bitcoin anyway, the mere fact that the growth of bitcoin isn't going to happen overnight and the daily movement of it's price is so volatile that we're all warned to take precautions when trading and only trade what we can afford to lose means that we all should've been not relying on bitcoin as a means to make money for our daily needs and at the end as you've said, bitcoin's better when you're hodling it the longer. My take on this people that are still doing this reliance on bitcoin for daily money is that they're admirable because they don't mind the risk and that they're crazy enough to do this not just once or in a day.

I also do admire those people that have been completely reliant to Bitcoin in all means of their survival. Like how? through trading or any other tasks that they're paid to do so. But if it's with trading, I'd say that it's kind of hard to survive with it and be wholly reliant on it having no other source of living. But I know the fact that there are traders, full time, that can make as much as they can but with the perspective of not a trader or just do it casually, it's truly hard.

[1714611775]

1714611775

[1714611775]

1714611775

[1714611775]

1714611775

[1714611775]

1714611775

[Neobanks]

They are in belief that being a trader is the way to riches but they don't realize that it's the hardest path and we've got some easiest strategy and that's effortless through DCA.

Being a holder and just adding up more bitcoins by having buying is what they just have to realize that they'd able to see why we keep on telling and suggesting people to do it.

No need to get into the battle of hassle with other traders when you can HODL and DCA.

It cannot be denied that buying and holding bitcoins is the safest way to invest in bitcoins, but for those with the ability and skills to trade, trading to increase the amount of bitcoins is not so bad. Just because we can't win at trading doesn't mean everyone is like us. I have a friend who makes a living as a day trader and so far he's been fine. It can be said that everyone has different skills, so we should know who we are and what our strengths are so that we can make appropriate choices that bring the best benefits to us. Don't imitate others just because they are successful that way, each person has a different path to success.

I will not want to encourage anyone to trade Bitcoin, it most times don't end well and make people have bad things to say about bitcoin. As we are discussing how to hold for long time, discussing trading of bitcoin here might be out of place. There is a proper section for trading and that place is agoge with different trading strategies that can be used to supposedly increase the Bitcoin.

You already supported the fact that buying and holding bitcoin is the safest way to invest in Bitcoin, why will you jettison the safest way for some risky way with promise of huge gains that is not even guaranteed? It is not the best way to go about investing in bitcoin. I started as a trader so I know how tricky it can be even to those who think they have mastered the skills. More often than not, people end of losing their entire assets to trading when they were hoping to make major wins. Therefore, buying bitcoin and holding is the best approach.

I advocate that holding bitcoin is the safest way to invest, but I am not saying that it is the way to make the best profits. Just because you like safety with moderate profits doesn't mean everyone likes safety and peace as much as you do. Each person has different investment preferences, strengths and skills. I have been making profits from trading and using those profits to reinvest in many different projects. So why should I stop trading just because you and some other people are not making profits from trading? DO NOT imitate others but also do not impose your thoughts on others.

Why do people who cannot make money from trading start thinking that it is not a good investment method? Just like altcoins, many investors are profiting from altcoins, memes... while bitcoin maximalists go around saying bad things about others. Would doing so help us deliver better returns than those investing in altcoins?

Yes, there is atom of truth in the claim that being a trader is the way to riches because trading will enable one to have a better understanding of the system which is the major factor that will enhance the riches. In otherwise, trading can also have some disadvantage when the prerequisite skill is not well conceive and develop, for one to be a good trader and make riches out of it there must be unprecedented determination and consistency as well as endurance and dedication.

[JayJuanGee]

That's what matters when you're holding bitcoin. You shouldn't depend on it as if it's going to give you daily income. The profit that you'll get from it will be coming from how long you hold it as the market gets into fruition and takes time in doing so. Most of the holders that are successful understood this matter and they have just left their Bitcoin on hold and does their things while waiting for its value to pump. Unlike the newbies that think that it's different the way you've described it, they don't realize that they need to have other source still.

Exactly and that shouldn't have been the thing that someone should be doing with bitcoin anyway, the mere fact that the growth of bitcoin isn't going to happen overnight and the daily movement of it's price is so volatile that we're all warned to take precautions when trading and only trade what we can afford to lose means that we all should've been not relying on bitcoin as a means to make money for our daily needs and at the end as you've said, bitcoin's better when you're hodling it the longer. My take on this people that are still doing this reliance on bitcoin for daily money is that they're admirable because they don't mind the risk and that they're crazy enough to do this not just once or in a day.

I also do admire those people that have been completely reliant to Bitcoin in all means of their survival. Like how? through trading or any other tasks that they're paid to do so. But if it's with trading, I'd say that it's kind of hard to survive with it and be wholly reliant on it having no other source of living. But I know the fact that there are traders, full time, that can make as much as they can but with the perspective of not a trader or just do it casually, it's truly hard.

Living off of your trades is one thing, yet one of the important things about bitcoin is that it is a great investment vehicle.

So if a guy is able to live off of trading and live a regular life, while at the same time having enough left over that he is able to save between 5% and 25% of his income into bitcoin, then he is doing even better because he is saving for a future - otherwise, he is going to be working his whole life and never getting anywhere.. so I am not sure if that would be a very good way to live... and so yeah, sure how are you going to measure the matter in terms of comparing to other kinds of work that he might be able to do.

Let's say that he generally could get work for $4k per month, and so his expenses might be $3k, so then he ends up investing $1k per month and/or $250 per week into bitcoin.  Historically we could look this up to see how many bitcoin he would have had after 5 years or 10 years of investing in that kind of a way.  A guy who trades might be skimming off value to live, but then he also might be building his investment capital so that he is able to work with more and more capital the longer that he is trading, the more investment capital he is able to build up... But then is he putting that capital at risk?  probably.  The trader has a mentality to always be putting his capital to work, and so maybe a question of success would be how much is his investment capital growing, and is it growing at a similar rate as someone who had been able to have a regular job and to put aside $250 per week for the past 10 years.

My Hypothetical 2 guy has right around 115 BTC after 10 years of investing $250 per week into BTC, which surely is not a bad place to be.  Is the trader going to beat hypothetical 2 guy?  and hypothetical 5 guy shows that $250 per week would have resulted in around 5 bitcoin up until now if his investment timeline had been for 5 years.

[edited out]

Yes, there is atom of truth in the claim that being a trader is the way to riches because trading will enable one to have a better understanding of the system which is the major factor that will enhance the riches. In otherwise, trading can also have some disadvantage when the prerequisite skill is not well conceive and develop, for one to be a good trader and make riches out of it there must be unprecedented determination and consistency as well as endurance and dedication.

An overwhelming majority of regular people are going to be way better off by just investing into bitcoin regularly rather than trying to trade it.

[peter0425]

0)   $250  (2015)                                    1X
1)    $500  (2015-2016)                           2X
2)    $1,000    (2016-2017)        2X * 2 = 4X
3)    $2,000  (2017)                  4X * 2 = 8X
4)    $4,000  (2017-2020)          8X * 2 = 16X
5)    $8,000   (2017-2020)        16X * 2 = 32X
6)    $16,000  (2017-2022)       32X * 2 = 64X
7)    $32,000  (2021-2023?)      64X * 2 = 128X
8 )    $64,000  (2021-?)             128X * 2 = 256X
9)    $128,000  (?)                    256X * 2 = 512X

That is half a million to this date? started at 250$  in 9 years , that is how I regret my past selling specially when I got bad in gambling and when I starter to wake up from my mistakes here is the pandemic that I need to take all my funds out.
but yeah since 2022 I started to recover again and now those mistakes will never happen again.
thank you for reminding us how grateful we are being in Bitcoin investing.

[JayJuanGee]

0)   $250  (2015)                                    1X
1)    $500  (2015-2016)                           2X
2)    $1,000    (2016-2017)        2X * 2 = 4X
3)    $2,000  (2017)                  4X * 2 = 8X
4)    $4,000  (2017-2020)          8X * 2 = 16X
5)    $8,000   (2017-2020)        16X * 2 = 32X
6)    $16,000  (2017-2022)       32X * 2 = 64X
7)    $32,000  (2021-2023?)      64X * 2 = 128X
8 )    $64,000  (2021-?)             128X * 2 = 256X
9)    $128,000  (?)                    256X * 2 = 512X

That is half a million to this date? started at 250$ 

I don't know because if we go by today's spot price, as I type this post (around $69k), then any of us would have had to have bought right around 7.25 BTC  in 2015 for $250 each, which would have been around $1,812, and then we would have had to hold onto those BTC through all the ups and downs between 2015 and now.

Another possibility would have had been to buy 2x, 3x or 4x that amount, and then we would have had more liberty to sell some of them along the way, yet still have at least 7.25 BTC remaining in our holdings today.

I was largely attempting to show the power of exponential growth rather than picking any specific quantity of BTC that should have had been accumulated, and so part of the power of exponential growth and compounding of value is that it folds upon itself to have way higher magnitude, so right now we are in the supra 256x phase with 8 doublings, and if we get over $128k,, then we will be into the 9th doubling of that same initial amount... so a lot of power comes from just holding and allowing for the doublings to take place.

Of course, guys who started later, would have fewer doublings, and maybe even guys who screw up their average cost per BTC would have fewer doublings as well.

I personally like to proclaim that my own costs per BTC are right around $1k, so I have already lost a couple of the earlier doublings, due to some of my own mistakes along the way.. so therefore in my own situation, I am more likely ONLY feeling the compounding of right around 6 doublings, which would be closer to around 64x rather than 256x... but that's o.k... each of us do our best, and sometimes, it may well be better to have more BTC and have higher costs per BTC rather than having a lower amount of BTC at cheaper costs per BTC... so the guy who spent $100k and got 100 BTC ($1k per BTC) is going to be better of than the guy who spent $10k and got 25 BTC ($400 per BTC).

in 9 years , that is how I regret my past selling specially when I got bad in gambling and when I starter to wake up from my mistakes here is the pandemic that I need to take all my funds out.

March 2020 would have surely been a bad time to sell your BTC, unless you figured out your mistake and bought back soon thereafter, even if you figure out that you had made a mistake.

Part of the problem of selling too many BTC too soon is that it causes psychological problems involved in buying back in, so instead of having regrets, any of us should be making sure that we have enough BTC. and so right now, if you conclude that you don't have enough BTC, then the main solution to that is buying.. and yeah of course, you can have some plans in case the BTC price dips, but the main thing is to buy more BTC if your conclusion is that you do not have enough BTC... It can take a long time to build up any savings including a BTC portfolio, yet one of the advantages of BTC is that once you get to a point in which you have enough, then you can likely start to draw from them and have a reliable income, yet in the meantime, you have to get to that point of having enough prior to being able to start drawing from them.

but yeah since 2022 I started to recover again and now those mistakes will never happen again.
thank you for reminding us how grateful we are being in Bitcoin investing.

It is good that if you started back up in 2022.. so yeah, keep going and keep building your BTC stash, even if it is just a modest amount of $100 per week or whatever you can do.. and at some point you may well end up concluding that you have enough BTC to start to feel comfortable starting to draw from it... .. so if your goal might be to get to $500k, then even in 10 years (the middle of 2034), 1.5 BTC may well be enough to have half a million of solid value, and you could probably start to draw upon it once you get to your target... I personally measure in regards to the bottom which I still consider to be the 200-WMA, but if you are continuing to build and you get more than 1.5 BTC in 10 years, then you might be able to start drawing from your BTC sooner than 10 years.  For example in the middle of 2029, then you would only need right around 3.35 BTC in order to have $500k as your bottom.. in which you could start to draw upon it (if a $500k bottom value were to be your goal).

[I_Anime]

Yes, there is atom of truth in the claim that being a trader is the way to riches because trading will enable one to have a better understanding of the system which is the major factor that will enhance the riches. In otherwise, trading can also have some disadvantage when the prerequisite skill is not well conceive and develop, for one to be a good trader and make riches out of it there must be unprecedented determination and consistency as well as endurance and dedication

as also trading is just a way for those that are wealthy to make more money , don't be decieved that starting up with small capitals in trading you would be able to secure a good wealth ( though it may have worked for some individuals) but how certain is going to work for you also. The reason I don't advice anyone to go into trading expecially those are that are not financially stable, is because one may have a monthly pay job , with the interest of wanting to trade and invest at same time with his earnings. Inorder for such person to keep he would have to share his earning in different varieties, like some percentage for emergency funds ( for covering of expenses) , trading capital and some for investing. And as a low earner doing so would reduce your accumulation of bitcoin. And don't forget that in trading losses are inegligible (so sometime he may lose his capital in trading causing some set back) . That one need to prioritize in holding instead and forget about trading , when doing so he only have to keep some percentage for emergency funds and some for accumulating more bitcoin. In doing so he would be able to balance the system, making his accumulation more efficient and saving a better future for himself.

Part of the problem of selling too many BTC too soon is that it causes psychological problems involved in buying back in, so instead of having regrets, any of us should be making sure that we have enough BTC. and so right now, if you conclude that you don't have enough BTC, then the main solution to that is buying.. and yeah of course, you can have some plans in case the BTC price dips, but the main thing is to buy more BTC if your conclusion is that you do not have enough BTC... It can take a long time to build up any savings including a BTC portfolio, yet one of the advantages of BTC is that once you get to a point in which you have enough, then you can likely start to draw from them and have a reliable income, yet in the meantime, you have to get to that point of having enough prior to being able to start drawing from them.

you are right, that why I won't encourage low coiners like myself to think of selling from their investment with the mindset of replacing it back, because one doing so how certain, would you buy back in a lower price. Because buying when the price low , is an advantage to have more quantities in your portfolio than buying when the price is high,  just  as you said one should focus on Accumulating so that as time goes he may get to point of having enough, and earn his self a reliable income.

[Odohu]

Yes, there is atom of truth in the claim that being a trader is the way to riches because trading will enable one to have a better understanding of the system which is the major factor that will enhance the riches. In otherwise, trading can also have some disadvantage when the prerequisite skill is not well conceive and develop, for one to be a good trader and make riches out of it there must be unprecedented determination and consistency as well as endurance and dedication.

You are new to the forum, I don't know if you are also new to Bitcoin. Most of us starting from trading and got excited at the early stages especially during bull market when every buys almost instantly yield profits, we were so hyped with the euphoria of easy money. It was with time we realised that trading isn't an easy way of making money. I personally paid the price and wished I never followed that route. Today when I look at the volume of Bitcoin I had traded without holding any of them, I feel depressed and wished I could turn back the hands of time.  My only consolation is the fact that I I joined this forum, learnt about a method of investing in Bitcoin called DCA and started building my portfolio afresh. So I call my ordeal the price of learning.

If you are so engrossed in trading and you are really making good profit from it, I will encourage you to immediately set aside those profits in a separate wallet an hold them with long term in view. But if you know that trading is making you turn round the same cycle of profit/loss without any progress, then there is need to change your plans into holding Bitcoin instead of trading.

[Barikui1]

They are in belief that being a trader is the way to riches but they don't realize that it's the hardest path and we've got some easiest strategy and that's effortless through DCA.

Being a holder and just adding up more bitcoins by having buying is what they just have to realize that they'd able to see why we keep on telling and suggesting people to do it.

No need to get into the battle of hassle with other traders when you can HODL and DCA.

It cannot be denied that buying and holding bitcoins is the safest way to invest in bitcoins, but for those with the ability and skills to trade, trading to increase the amount of bitcoins is not so bad. Just because we can't win at trading doesn't mean everyone is like us. I have a friend who makes a living as a day trader and so far he's been fine. It can be said that everyone has different skills, so we should know who we are and what our strengths are so that we can make appropriate choices that bring the best benefits to us. Don't imitate others just because they are successful that way, each person has a different path to success.

I will not want to encourage anyone to trade Bitcoin, it most times don't end well and make people have bad things to say about bitcoin. As we are discussing how to hold for long time, discussing trading of bitcoin here might be out of place. There is a proper section for trading and that place is agoge with different trading strategies that can be used to supposedly increase the Bitcoin.

You already supported the fact that buying and holding bitcoin is the safest way to invest in Bitcoin, why will you jettison the safest way for some risky way with promise of huge gains that is not even guaranteed? It is not the best way to go about investing in bitcoin. I started as a trader so I know how tricky it can be even to those who think they have mastered the skills. More often than not, people end of losing their entire assets to trading when they were hoping to make major wins. Therefore, buying bitcoin and holding is the best approach.

I advocate that holding bitcoin is the safest way to invest, but I am not saying that it is the way to make the best profits. Just because you like safety with moderate profits doesn't mean everyone likes safety and peace as much as you do. Each person has different investment preferences, strengths and skills. I have been making profits from trading and using those profits to reinvest in many different projects. So why should I stop trading just because you and some other people are not making profits from trading? DO NOT imitate others but also do not impose your thoughts on others.

Why do people who cannot make money from trading start thinking that it is not a good investment method? Just like altcoins, many investors are profiting from altcoins, memes... while bitcoin maximalists go around saying bad things about others. Would doing so help us deliver better returns than those investing in altcoins?

Yes, there is atom of truth in the claim that being a trader is the way to riches because trading will enable one to have a better understanding of the system which is the major factor that will enhance the riches. In otherwise, trading can also have some disadvantage when the prerequisite skill is not well conceive and develop, for one to be a good trader and make riches out of it there must be unprecedented determination and consistency as well as endurance and dedication.

The first thing I want you to understand is that trading is not for everyone, secondly, trading is not as easy as most influencer makes it looks like, and if am not mistaken, it's only like 2% of traders that are making money from it out of 100% , so the earlier you realize it the better.

But when it comes to investing in Bitcoin through the DCA method, you don't need any skill before you invest, all you need is basic knowledge on how to be buying weekly or monthly, and a deeper knowledge on what it entails on how to hold effectively, by having a source of income and an emergency fund, and I can certain that, that is the perfect recipe for wealth building as long as you are a long term holder.

[avp2306]

Yes, there is atom of truth in the claim that being a trader is the way to riches because trading will enable one to have a better understanding of the system which is the major factor that will enhance the riches. In otherwise, trading can also have some disadvantage when the prerequisite skill is not well conceive and develop, for one to be a good trader and make riches out of it there must be unprecedented determination and consistency as well as endurance and dedication

as also trading is just a way for those that are wealthy to make more money , don't be decieved that starting up with small capitals in trading you would be able to secure a good wealth ( though it may have worked for some individuals) but how certain is going to work for you also. The reason I don't advice anyone to go into trading expecially those are that are not financially stable, is because one may have a monthly pay job , with the interest of wanting to trade and invest at same time with his earnings. Inorder for such person to keep he would have to share his earning in different varieties, like some percentage for emergency funds ( for covering of expenses) , trading capital and some for investing. And as a low earner doing so would reduce your accumulation of bitcoin. And don't forget that in trading losses are inegligible (so sometime he may lose his capital in trading causing some set back) . That one need to prioritize in holding instead and forget about trading , when doing so he only have to keep some percentage for emergency funds and some for accumulating more bitcoin. In doing so he would be able to balance the system, making his accumulation more efficient and saving a better future for himself.

They are just fooling theirselves to get good gains by trading their bitcoins on daily basis since they cannot actually get passive results for it and might there's just huge chance for them to lost all bitcoins they have if sudden shift of momentum came like a unexpected correction will happen and they are not been prepared for it to happen.

That's why its better if they just use their money for accumulating since nothing more best decision to do that especially if they don't have enough knowledge on trading since for sure they can get more better profit results for hodl than trading. I know we can read a lot of hype stories about their trading gains but people need to understand that this is not consistent result also there's big chance to lose if they are not careful and became so greedy on taking some risky decisions on what they are trying to trade.

[batang_bitcoin]

That's what matters when you're holding bitcoin. You shouldn't depend on it as if it's going to give you daily income. The profit that you'll get from it will be coming from how long you hold it as the market gets into fruition and takes time in doing so. Most of the holders that are successful understood this matter and they have just left their Bitcoin on hold and does their things while waiting for its value to pump. Unlike the newbies that think that it's different the way you've described it, they don't realize that they need to have other source still.

Exactly and that shouldn't have been the thing that someone should be doing with bitcoin anyway, the mere fact that the growth of bitcoin isn't going to happen overnight and the daily movement of it's price is so volatile that we're all warned to take precautions when trading and only trade what we can afford to lose means that we all should've been not relying on bitcoin as a means to make money for our daily needs and at the end as you've said, bitcoin's better when you're hodling it the longer. My take on this people that are still doing this reliance on bitcoin for daily money is that they're admirable because they don't mind the risk and that they're crazy enough to do this not just once or in a day.

I also do admire those people that have been completely reliant to Bitcoin in all means of their survival. Like how? through trading or any other tasks that they're paid to do so. But if it's with trading, I'd say that it's kind of hard to survive with it and be wholly reliant on it having no other source of living. But I know the fact that there are traders, full time, that can make as much as they can but with the perspective of not a trader or just do it casually, it's truly hard.

Living off of your trades is one thing, yet one of the important things about bitcoin is that it is a great investment vehicle.

So if a guy is able to live off of trading and live a regular life, while at the same time having enough left over that he is able to save between 5% and 25% of his income into bitcoin, then he is doing even better because he is saving for a future - otherwise, he is going to be working his whole life and never getting anywhere.. so I am not sure if that would be a very good way to live... and so yeah, sure how are you going to measure the matter in terms of comparing to other kinds of work that he might be able to do.

Let's say that he generally could get work for $4k per month, and so his expenses might be $3k, so then he ends up investing $1k per month and/or $250 per week into bitcoin.  Historically we could look this up to see how many bitcoin he would have had after 5 years or 10 years of investing in that kind of a way.  A guy who trades might be skimming off value to live, but then he also might be building his investment capital so that he is able to work with more and more capital the longer that he is trading, the more investment capital he is able to build up... But then is he putting that capital at risk?  probably.  The trader has a mentality to always be putting his capital to work, and so maybe a question of success would be how much is his investment capital growing, and is it growing at a similar rate as someone who had been able to have a regular job and to put aside $250 per week for the past 10 years.

My Hypothetical 2 guy has right around 115 BTC after 10 years of investing $250 per week into BTC, which surely is not a bad place to be.  Is the trader going to beat hypothetical 2 guy?  and hypothetical 5 guy shows that $250 per week would have resulted in around 5 bitcoin up until now if his investment timeline had been for 5 years.

I am not good in math with that 10 year frame but sure it is going to be worth it with that journey if someone is able to invest $250/week or $1k/monthly. That's how it goes but I am also as well thinking about the itching side of the probable selling during that period and it might not reach that amount after 10 years. But the good thing with this is that guy that does accumulation weekly or monthly is still on the right path whether he's going to have some tough decision that he has decided to sell some. And as for that 5 year hypo guy, that's more likely what it is going to be with most people today but the consistency is one thing that's hard to maintain.

[blckhawk]

~

I also do admire those people that have been completely reliant to Bitcoin in all means of their survival. Like how? through trading or any other tasks that they're paid to do so. But if it's with trading, I'd say that it's kind of hard to survive with it and be wholly reliant on it having no other source of living. But I know the fact that there are traders, full time, that can make as much as they can but with the perspective of not a trader or just do it casually, it's truly hard.

Well, that's the only thing that you can do about this kind of thing, it's not your money and they can survive. Seeing people reliant on trading for their daily expenses is like watching a those stunt drivers in circuses do deadly tricks and showmanship, they don't have to do it as there are other ways to do it but they do it anyway and you're in awe that they're risking their lives just to live another day of not starving. It's really difficult to make money with trading especially with a lot of retail investors and small traders losing a lot of money because they don't know how to do it and they're lacking in information to do informed decisions so that's double the admiration if you think about it, watching that computer all day without rest and having to rely on meager profit through scalping, you can only watch or listen in awe when you see this and when these traders tell you this kind of things that they're doing.

[peter0425]

in 9 years , that is how I regret my past selling specially when I got bad in gambling and when I starter to wake up from my mistakes here is the pandemic that I need to take all my funds out.

March 2020 would have surely been a bad time to sell your BTC, unless you figured out your mistake and bought back soon thereafter, even if you figure out that you had made a mistake.

It took me till 2022 before starting again because it is late 2021 that i got back my Job from pandemic so need to prioritize everything to stash my folio once again and gladly I am now.

but yeah since 2022 I started to recover again and now those mistakes will never happen again.
thank you for reminding us how grateful we are being in Bitcoin investing.

It is good that if you started back up in 2022.. so yeah, keep going and keep building your BTC stash, even if it is just a modest amount of $100 per week or whatever you can do..

actually that's what I am doing now , 100$ a week or sometimes even a little higher when there are extra work for a week, not minding how much the price is because Like you i believe that bitcoin will be here and growing in the coming years and not just now and tomorrow.

You are truly aspiring us small investors to keep trusting this great currency..Thank you.

[batang_bitcoin]

~

I also do admire those people that have been completely reliant to Bitcoin in all means of their survival. Like how? through trading or any other tasks that they're paid to do so. But if it's with trading, I'd say that it's kind of hard to survive with it and be wholly reliant on it having no other source of living. But I know the fact that there are traders, full time, that can make as much as they can but with the perspective of not a trader or just do it casually, it's truly hard.

Well, that's the only thing that you can do about this kind of thing, it's not your money and they can survive. Seeing people reliant on trading for their daily expenses is like watching a those stunt drivers in circuses do deadly tricks and showmanship, they don't have to do it as there are other ways to do it but they do it anyway and you're in awe that they're risking their lives just to live another day of not starving. It's really difficult to make money with trading especially with a lot of retail investors and small traders losing a lot of money because they don't know how to do it and they're lacking in information to do informed decisions so that's double the admiration if you think about it, watching that computer all day without rest and having to rely on meager profit through scalping, you can only watch or listen in awe when you see this and when these traders tell you this kind of things that they're doing.

Well, those that can really do it have their own space and they know what they're up to. Salute to them as that's one hard source of income but I just see that there are the ones that do make trading as their way of living. So, those that don't have hope in doing these trading for a living, it's just best to choose what's going to work for you and if that means investing or holding then choose that method if that's going to work out for you as it worked for most of us.

[JayJuanGee]

Part of the problem of selling too many BTC too soon is that it causes psychological problems involved in buying back in, so instead of having regrets, any of us should be making sure that we have enough BTC. and so right now, if you conclude that you don't have enough BTC, then the main solution to that is buying.. and yeah of course, you can have some plans in case the BTC price dips, but the main thing is to buy more BTC if your conclusion is that you do not have enough BTC... It can take a long time to build up any savings including a BTC portfolio, yet one of the advantages of BTC is that once you get to a point in which you have enough, then you can likely start to draw from them and have a reliable income, yet in the meantime, you have to get to that point of having enough prior to being able to start drawing from them.

you are right, that why I won't encourage low coiners like myself to think of selling from their investment with the mindset of replacing it back, because one doing so how certain, would you buy back in a lower price. Because buying when the price low , is an advantage to have more quantities in your portfolio than buying when the price is high,  just  as you said one should focus on Accumulating so that as time goes he may get to point of having enough, and earn his self a reliable income.

I consider that there could be something like 3 categories of low coiners behaviors.. .

1) whimpy low coiner - they are seemingly purposefully causing themselves to be a low coiner by their chosen level of whimpiness in their thinking about bitcoin and maybe their failure to set any kind of specific plan and to act

2) sufficiently aggressive low coiner - who is trying to be as aggressive as he can in accumulating BTC while managing his financial situation to have an emergency and reserve funds in order that he can attempt to maximize his aggressiveness without over doing it.. so maybe this person is continuously making progress in building his BTC stash, but sometimes is feeling like he is not making progress when the BTC prices are down.

3) an overly aggressive low coiner - who trades, gambles and involves himself with shitcions, and maybe has similar goals as 2), but does not have as much discipline so bets big, is anxious to get rich quick so takes unnecessary risks, does not maintain adequate reserves/emergency funds and considers that everything will just work itself out (including good luck) and maybe even contributes to his own losses and/or failure to make progress in building his BTC portfolio

As you seem to recognize, I think that we should be aspiring to be like number 2 to the best of our own abilities and within the confines of our own circumstances.. with some level of aggressiveness in organizing our budget, psychology and our regular BTC buying practices, and to have patience in terms of continuing to realize that it takes time to build our BTC stash that may or may not be comparable to the size of some people who have other circumstances.. so we may well not even consider ourself a low coiner if we are accumulating coin to the best of our ability, then as compared to other versions of ourself, we may well not be a low coiner, and with the passage of years of accumulating, it is likely that our prior self is not even going to be able to keep up with us.. which is similar that it is likely that our peers are also not going to be able to catch with us, especially if we can make it through a whole cycle of ongoing, persistent and consistent BTC accumulation... and to survive by not recking ourselves along the way.

[edited out]

Living off of your trades is one thing, yet one of the important things about bitcoin is that it is a great investment vehicle.

So if a guy is able to live off of trading and live a regular life, while at the same time having enough left over that he is able to save between 5% and 25% of his income into bitcoin, then he is doing even better because he is saving for a future - otherwise, he is going to be working his whole life and never getting anywhere.. so I am not sure if that would be a very good way to live... and so yeah, sure how are you going to measure the matter in terms of comparing to other kinds of work that he might be able to do.

Let's say that he generally could get work for $4k per month, and so his expenses might be $3k, so then he ends up investing $1k per month and/or $250 per week into bitcoin.  Historically we could look this up to see how many bitcoin he would have had after 5 years or 10 years of investing in that kind of a way.  A guy who trades might be skimming off value to live, but then he also might be building his investment capital so that he is able to work with more and more capital the longer that he is trading, the more investment capital he is able to build up... But then is he putting that capital at risk?  probably.  The trader has a mentality to always be putting his capital to work, and so maybe a question of success would be how much is his investment capital growing, and is it growing at a similar rate as someone who had been able to have a regular job and to put aside $250 per week for the past 10 years.

My Hypothetical 2 guy has right around 115 BTC after 10 years of investing $250 per week into BTC, which surely is not a bad place to be.  Is the trader going to beat hypothetical 2 guy?  and hypothetical 5 guy shows that $250 per week would have resulted in around 5 bitcoin up until now if his investment timeline had been for 5 years.

I am not good in math with that 10 year frame but sure it is going to be worth it with that journey if someone is able to invest $250/week or $1k/monthly. That's how it goes but I am also as well thinking about the itching side of the probable selling during that period and it might not reach that amount after 10 years. But the good thing with this is that guy that does accumulation weekly or monthly is still on the right path whether he's going to have some tough decision that he has decided to sell some. And as for that 5 year hypo guy, that's more likely what it is going to be with most people today but the consistency is one thing that's hard to maintain.

Well it is a matter of time, whether a guy is a 5 year guy, a 10 year guy or somewhere further down the road.  We cannot really know how our investment will perform, but we can attempt to gauge how much we are putting in.  So if $250 per week is about $13k per year (that is 52 weeks in a year), then after 10 years, the guy would have had invested $130k. and so after 5 years he would have had invested $65k.  So part of the results is how much a guy puts in, and then how well the investment ends up performing.

In traditional investing, there are many folks who invest 30-40 years, and they never make fuck you status... and yeah maybe they are not consistent and maybe they do not even invest 10% of their salary, since we know that if you are investing 10% of your salary, it is still going to take 10 years for your investment to add up to 1 year of your salary, so some folks might figure out that there are ways to be more aggressive with their investment in order to shorten the timeline that it is going to take to build up several years of their salary (or their living expenses) because if they can learn how to live fairly frugally, then they realize that they don't need to spend as much or to have as much saved up in order to be able to support themselves, once they decide to stop working (or to stop earning income through work).. so at some point they will be able to start to draw on their investment to either completely support themselves or to supplement their living situation. 

With something like bitcoin, no one can tell you how long that you have to wait before starting to draw upon it as income and/or to supplement your living, but we likely hear about way too many guys who start to shave off their profits way too early, so they never end up getting to the point in which their BTC would be able to completely support all of their living expenses for the rest of their lives, which would also be considered a passive income - if the only thing that you have to do to receive it is to account for it.

Even though I am already coming to conclude that it is likely in bitcoin that we are not going to need as much of a nest egg as we need in traditional finances in order to support ourselves from our BTC stash, since in traditional investment we need right around 25x our income in order to be able to live off of our income (which is assuming a 4% withdrawal rate), and I am starting to consider that with bitcoin 10-16.7 years of income may well be enough (which is assuming a 6% to 10% withdrawal rate).. but it is still risky to overly rely on the newer models and those kinds of potential more aggressive withdrawal rates that bitcoin might be able to provide since it is more of an untested system and fairly new, so it may well be much better to rely on more conservative models and to have some cushion in the size of he BTC stash before pulling any fuck you lever that would then put you in a position where you are having to live off of your BTC stash.

~

I also do admire those people that have been completely reliant to Bitcoin in all means of their survival. Like how? through trading or any other tasks that they're paid to do so. But if it's with trading, I'd say that it's kind of hard to survive with it and be wholly reliant on it having no other source of living. But I know the fact that there are traders, full time, that can make as much as they can but with the perspective of not a trader or just do it casually, it's truly hard.

Well, that's the only thing that you can do about this kind of thing, it's not your money and they can survive. Seeing people reliant on trading for their daily expenses is like watching a those stunt drivers in circuses do deadly tricks and showmanship, they don't have to do it as there are other ways to do it but they do it anyway and you're in awe that they're risking their lives just to live another day of not starving. It's really difficult to make money with trading especially with a lot of retail investors and small traders losing a lot of money because they don't know how to do it and they're lacking in information to do informed decisions so that's double the admiration if you think about it, watching that computer all day without rest and having to rely on meager profit through scalping, you can only watch or listen in awe when you see this and when these traders tell you this kind of things that they're doing.

When it comes to trading, I am not opposed to the idea of using it as a way to learn more about markets, but not as a way to earn money or to substitute salary from regular work.  With trading, I also agree with the idea of using real money rather than fake (training) websites that do not use real value, but the fact that you are using real money does not mean that you have to bet big, and maybe you could have $100 as your total trading budget.... and so you could set up 20 trades that are $5 each.. . and of course, if you have an investment portfolio that is $100k, then you could practice with $1k of that (which is only 1% of the size of your investment stash.. just for the purposes of learning.. if that might be what you want to do)...

in 9 years , that is how I regret my past selling specially when I got bad in gambling and when I starter to wake up from my mistakes here is the pandemic that I need to take all my funds out.

March 2020 would have surely been a bad time to sell your BTC, unless you figured out your mistake and bought back soon thereafter, even if you figure out that you had made a mistake.

It took me till 2022 before starting again because it is late 2021 that i got back my Job from pandemic so need to prioritize everything to stash my folio once again and gladly I am now.

It can be tough losing a source of income, and then maybe trying to figure out what to do in terms of other possible income and/or even self-training to be able to potentially do other kinds of work.

but yeah since 2022 I started to recover again and now those mistakes will never happen again.
thank you for reminding us how grateful we are being in Bitcoin investing.

It is good that if you started back up in 2022.. so yeah, keep going and keep building your BTC stash, even if it is just a modest amount of $100 per week or whatever you can do..

actually that's what I am doing now , 100$ a week or sometimes even a little higher when there are extra work for a week, not minding how much the price is because Like you i believe that bitcoin will be here and growing in the coming years and not just now and tomorrow.
You are truly aspiring us small investors to keep trusting this great currency..Thank you.

So yeah you surely can be flexible with the amount that you put into bitcoin based on your cashflow and expenses, and surely you have to be careful to make sure that you are not overdoing it. and you have some other funds in case you have some kind of an emergency that might relate to your income or your expenses, and looking at the bright side, there should be some hope with people to have such a thing as bitcoin as a possible investment, even though there are a lot of other things screwed up in macro systems, yet bitcoin does seem to offer some really good possibilities for continued great payout down the line, as long as you don't screw it up by cashing out too early.. and just continuing to build it to get your stack size to a point in which it largely might start to be able to sustain itself, once you decide it is time to start to draw upon it.

Regarding your ideas about trusting bitcoin, you still have to keep in mind your own position size because there are not any guarantees in bitcoin, even though it is currently seeming to be the best of investments currently available.. so in that regard, you have to consider position size in terms of both that you could lose up to 100% of everything that you put in, and yet at the same time there are upside calculations of various returns that you may well be able to get based on still quite low levels of adoption, so there remains so much more potential for growth in terms of bitcoins addressable market that is likely in the territory of 1,000x the value of gold, even though we are currently around 1/10th the price of gold (in terms of market cap), so surely it could take 50-200 years for bitcoin to reach fair market value relative to gold, and at the same time, our investment timeline is way shorter than even 50 years, and many of us are likely investing for periods of 4-10 years or longer and surely there is variance in terms of when we are going to start to expect to want t begin to draw upon our bitcoin investment... where we might convert from a net BTC accumulator and into a net BTC liquidator..

[Upgrade00]

1) whimpy low coiner

2) sufficiently aggressive low coiner

3) an overly aggressive low coiner

A lot of investors today who are number 2 started off overly aggressive and bought into the different altcoins that promised to be the next Bitcoin. Likely, they entered the market during a bull run when crypto was at the top of everyone's lips like in late 2017 and dives right into the ICO bubble which was growing larger everyday.
After getting burnt a couple of times and losing some money, maybe gaining some more, but over the next couple of months they moved towards more stable coins like Bitcoin and aggressively went into it, moving most bb their profits from other investments into it.

The first guy usually stays the same.

[Y3shot]

in 9 years , that is how I regret my past selling specially when I got bad in gambling and when I starter to wake up from my mistakes here is the pandemic that I need to take all my funds out.

March 2020 would have surely been a bad time to sell your BTC, unless you figured out your mistake and bought back soon thereafter, even if you figure out that you had made a mistake.

It took me till 2022 before starting again because it is late 2021 that i got back my Job from pandemic so need to prioritize everything to stash my folio once again and gladly I am now.

but yeah since 2022 I started to recover again and now those mistakes will never happen again.
thank you for reminding us how grateful we are being in Bitcoin investing.

It is good that if you started back up in 2022.. so yeah, keep going and keep building your BTC stash, even if it is just a modest amount of $100 per week or whatever you can do..

actually that's what I am doing now , 100$ a week or sometimes even a little higher when there are extra work for a week, not minding how much the price is because Like you i believe that bitcoin will be here and growing in the coming years and not just now and tomorrow.

You are truly aspiring us small investors to keep trusting this great currency..Thank you.

Only those that understand the benefits of buying bitcoin and hodling Bitcoin will try their best to always continue in this even if it will cause them pain in hodling Bitcoin. It is a wrong decision for one to sell out when suppose to keep hodling Bitcoin,  that is why when whenever some people make mostake in selling their bitcoin, they regret it after realising the mistake of selling.  It is not easy buying bitcoin to hodl from time to time, but I think one is doing the right thing buying bitcoin and hodling .

[JayJuanGee]

1) whimpy low coiner

2) sufficiently aggressive low coiner

3) an overly aggressive low coiner

A lot of investors today who are number 2 started off overly aggressive and bought into the different altcoins that promised to be the next Bitcoin. Likely, they entered the market during a bull run when crypto was at the top of everyone's lips like in late 2017 and dives right into the ICO bubble which was growing larger everyday.
After getting burnt a couple of times and losing some money, maybe gaining some more, but over the next couple of months they moved towards more stable coins like Bitcoin and aggressively went into it, moving most bb their profits from other investments into it.

The first guy usually stays the same.

"The first guy usually stays the same."

Interesting point.  I consider the whimpy low coiner to have potential, since he has already acted.

We have such a common problem with the no coiner who fails to act, and so maybe there are different kinds of no coiners too.. but a low coiner has gotten further than any no coiner who has failed to act.   We know that another term for no coiner is pre coiner, yet there are still some who might be teetering upon having interest in bitcoin and others who don't really invest into anything until everyone they know and their dog is doing it, and then they join.. yes those ones are maybe the laggards.

[I_Anime]

1) whimpy low coiner

2) sufficiently aggressive low coiner

3) an overly aggressive low coiner

A lot of investors today who are number 2 started off overly aggressive and bought into the different altcoins that promised to be the next Bitcoin. Likely, they entered the market during a bull run when crypto was at the top of everyone's lips like in late 2017 and dives right into the ICO bubble which was growing larger everyday.
After getting burnt a couple of times and losing some money, maybe gaining some more, but over the next couple of months they moved towards more stable coins like Bitcoin and aggressively went into it, moving most bb their profits from other investments into it.

The first guy usually stays the same.

"The first guy usually stays the same."

Interesting point.  I consider the whimpy low coiner to have potential, since he has already acted.

We have such a common problem with the no coiner who fails to act, and so maybe there are different kinds of no coiners too.. but a low coiner has gotten further than any no coiner who has failed to act.   We know that another term for no coiner is pre coiner, yet there are still some who might be teetering upon having interest in bitcoin and others who don't really invest into anything until everyone they know and their dog is doing it, and then they join.. yes those ones are maybe the laggards.

yeah you are right and thanks for the clarity of different low coiners, but recently I think I'm among the category of the second one, but at first I was among the category of the third one , overly aggressive low coiner , because at that time I involved my self in a of scheme, like trading and involving myself with alot of shitcoins thinking they would make me rich quick and earn me some goot profit, but at the end they did the opposite, got me reckt and I got to learn the hard way. But ever since have been gaining more knowledge about how Bitcoin investment or holdings works . I now find myself being among the sufficiently aggressive with the help of sir @JJG and some other users in this forum I'm now able to Accumulate bitcoin and same time manage my financial situation.

[adultcrypto]

1) whimpy low coiner

2) sufficiently aggressive low coiner

3) an overly aggressive low coiner

A lot of investors today who are number 2 started off overly aggressive and bought into the different altcoins that promised to be the next Bitcoin. Likely, they entered the market during a bull run when crypto was at the top of everyone's lips like in late 2017 and dives right into the ICO bubble which was growing larger everyday.
After getting burnt a couple of times and losing some money, maybe gaining some more, but over the next couple of months they moved towards more stable coins like Bitcoin and aggressively went into it, moving most bb their profits from other investments into it.

The first guy usually stays the same.

"The first guy usually stays the same."

Interesting point.  I consider the whimpy low coiner to have potential, since he has already acted.

We have such a common problem with the no coiner who fails to act, and so maybe there are different kinds of no coiners too.. but a low coiner has gotten further than any no coiner who has failed to act.   We know that another term for no coiner is pre coiner, yet there are still some who might be teetering upon having interest in bitcoin and others who don't really invest into anything until everyone they know and their dog is doing it, and then they join.. yes those ones are maybe the laggards.

yeah you are right and thanks for the clarity of different low coiners, but recently I think I'm among the category of the second one, but at first I was among the category of the third one , overly aggressive low coiner , because at that time I involved my self in a of scheme, like trading and involving myself with alot of shitcoins thinking they would make me rich quick and earn me some goot profit, but at the end they did the opposite, got me reckt and I got to learn the hard way. But ever since have been gaining more knowledge about how Bitcoin investment or holdings works . I now find myself being among the sufficiently aggressive with the help of sir @JJG and some other users in this forum I'm now able to Accumulate bitcoin and same time manage my financial situation.

I think this post now add clarity to how I felt mid last year. I was indeed number 2 and I'm glad I was as it made me cover up some gaps by combining both the DCA method and buying the dips. As someone who did not start building my bitcoin asset early, it was not a good feeling realizing that we were a year to bitcoin halving, and ETF approval where it was expected that Bitcoin will make a new all time high yet I did not have a good bitcoin portfolio. This was what motivated me to suspending a lot of activities costing me money and channeling those funds to Bitcoin. I achieved my target anyways but not as much as I would have achieved if I started investing way back in the bear season.

[JayJuanGee]

1) whimpy low coiner

2) sufficiently aggressive low coiner

3) an overly aggressive low coiner

A lot of investors today who are number 2 started off overly aggressive and bought into the different altcoins that promised to be the next Bitcoin. Likely, they entered the market during a bull run when crypto was at the top of everyone's lips like in late 2017 and dives right into the ICO bubble which was growing larger everyday.
After getting burnt a couple of times and losing some money, maybe gaining some more, but over the next couple of months they moved towards more stable coins like Bitcoin and aggressively went into it, moving most bb their profits from other investments into it.

The first guy usually stays the same.

"The first guy usually stays the same."

Interesting point.  I consider the whimpy low coiner to have potential, since he has already acted.

We have such a common problem with the no coiner who fails to act, and so maybe there are different kinds of no coiners too.. but a low coiner has gotten further than any no coiner who has failed to act.   We know that another term for no coiner is pre coiner, yet there are still some who might be teetering upon having interest in bitcoin and others who don't really invest into anything until everyone they know and their dog is doing it, and then they join.. yes those ones are maybe the laggards.

yeah you are right and thanks for the clarity of different low coiners, but recently I think I'm among the category of the second one, but at first I was among the category of the third one , overly aggressive low coiner , because at that time I involved my self in a of scheme, like trading and involving myself with alot of shitcoins thinking they would make me rich quick and earn me some goot profit, but at the end they did the opposite, got me reckt and I got to learn the hard way. But ever since have been gaining more knowledge about how Bitcoin investment or holdings works . I now find myself being among the sufficiently aggressive with the help of sir @JJG and some other users in this forum I'm now able to Accumulate bitcoin and same time manage my financial situation.

I think this post now add clarity to how I felt mid last year. I was indeed number 2 and I'm glad I was as it made me cover up some gaps by combining both the DCA method and buying the dips. As someone who did not start building my bitcoin asset early, it was not a good feeling realizing that we were a year to bitcoin halving, and ETF approval where it was expected that Bitcoin will make a new all time high yet I did not have a good bitcoin portfolio. This was what motivated me to suspending a lot of activities costing me money and channeling those funds to Bitcoin. I achieved my target anyways but not as much as I would have achieved if I started investing way back in the bear season.

Better late than never, and you are likely still going to feel early, but it might take a cycle or more before you start to feel that way... that is as long as you can keep up your investing in bitcoin, and yeah whether you are going to be ready to transfer out of accumulation after a whole cycle is something that I would not really know. ..and maybe you don't really know yet either, because you might have some further targets with the passage of time. I believe that we already discussed that sometimes there can be some early initial goals that are set and then when they are achieved, then they spark the setting of newer goals that might be related but they are slightly different based on our new circumstances, including our assessment of BTC's price performance during that time, too.