2024 Diff thread happy New Years.

[joker_josue]

10% is still madness ?
I expected it to drop like a stone in the next few days but seems not slowing that much down, in the last 24 hours we had 148, 24 hour before 159 blocks, I know S21 are being put online everywhere but are they really that many?

Do we have any new equipment being tested that has not yet been announced? Something that will really "revolutionize" the market?

Well, this "revolutionizing the market" part is already a very high expectation on my part. 

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[mikeywith]

10% is still madness ?

It still is, we talking roughly 50EH or 60EH of new gear which I think is not possible either, we are half way into this epoch, I think we would still drop.

[philipma1957]

https://newhedge.io/terminal/bitcoin/difficulty-estimator

Latest Block:   829661  (10 minutes ago)

Current Pace:   110.0058%  (1086 / 987.22 expected, 98.78 ahead)

Previous Difficulty:   70343519904866.8                             
Current Difficulty:   75502165623893.72                           
Next Difficulty:   between 81369055774156 and 83115003780222
Next Difficulty Change:   between +7.7705% and +10.0829%
Previous Retarget:   February 2, 2024 at 10:35 AM  (+7.3335%)
Next Retarget (earliest):   Thursday at 4:01 AM  (in 5d 20h 54m 5s)
Next Retarget (latest):   Thursday at 10:31 AM  (in 6d 3h 24m 19s)
Projected Epoch Length:   between 12d 17h 26m 18s and 12d 23h 56m 31s

still whaling

[stompix]

well six cents has basically almost always worked. i am interested in seeing what it does.

Yeah that thing was valid when BTC was at 42k but when you get 10% in under 5 days and 5% up in a day with income per th/s probably going above 9 cents again things start to change quite radically. So the 6cents/kwh border might become only 8cents/kwh if this things hits previous ATH levels, this despite the growth in hasharate.

Eveything becomes muddy again.

Do we have any new equipment being tested that has not yet been announced? Something that will really "revolutionize" the market?
Well, this "revolutionizing the market" part is already a very high expectation on my part. 

Doubt it! S21 is already itself a giant pace in efficiency, I doubt that Bitmain has another ace hidden that it plans to release after the halving to screw everybody!
This unless they ar already able to do it with 3nm, but with the current geo-poli-eco madness I don't see them bein first in line at TSMC for that.

[philipma1957]

well six cents has basically almost always worked. i am interested in seeing what it does.

Yeah that thing was valid when BTC was at 42k but when you get 10% in under 5 days and 5% up in a day with income per th/s probably going above 9 cents again things start to change quite radically. So the 6cents/kwh border might become only 8cents/kwh if this things hits previous ATH levels, this despite the growth in hasharate.

Eveything becomes muddy again.

Do we have any new equipment being tested that has not yet been announced? Something that will really "revolutionize" the market?
Well, this "revolutionizing the market" part is already a very high expectation on my part. 

Doubt it! S21 is already itself a giant pace in efficiency, I doubt that Bitmain has another ace hidden that it plans to release after the halving to screw everybody!
This unless they ar already able to do it with 3nm, but with the current geo-poli-eco madness I don't see them bein first in line at TSMC for that.

they have no need to put out the s21xp but if coins go to 75k they may decide to put one out..

they always need to pace gear. and with this huge amount coming on line this jump they will not make a new model just yet.

The s19 pro and s19 xp came out around a year apart.

[mikeywith]

Doubt it! S21 is already itself a giant pace in efficiency, I doubt that Bitmain has another ace hidden that it plans to release after the halving to screw everybody!
This unless they ar already able to do it with 3nm, but with the current geo-poli-eco madness I don't see them bein first in line at TSMC for that.

They can stuff more of the same chips in a single miner and end up with a more efficient and powerful gear, higher cost but it all depends on what the market is post halving.

[philipma1957]

Doubt it! S21 is already itself a giant pace in efficiency, I doubt that Bitmain has another ace hidden that it plans to release after the halving to screw everybody!
This unless they ar already able to do it with 3nm, but with the current geo-poli-eco madness I don't see them bein first in line at TSMC for that.

They can stuff more of the same chips in a single miner and end up with a more efficient and powerful gear, higher cost but it all depends on what the market is post halving.

Yeah if we have an early ATH and it just keeps moving well they will want to sell a s21 xp doing 240th and 3500 watts. But right now btc price is too low for them to sell that.

[philipma1957]

some relief we are at 8.9%

https://newhedge.io/terminal/bitcoin/difficulty-estimator

Latest Block:   829982  (4 minutes ago)

Current Pace:   108.9222%  (1407 / 1291.75 expected, 115.25 ahead)

Previous Difficulty:   70343519904866.8                             
Current Difficulty:   75502165623893.72                           
Next Difficulty:   between 81613810923868 and 82282644634810
Next Difficulty Change:   between +8.0947% and +8.9805%
Previous Retarget:   February 2, 2024 at 10:35 AM  (+7.3335%)
Next Retarget (earliest):   Thursday at 7:03 AM  (in 3d 21h 11m 8s)
Next Retarget (latest):   Thursday at 9:34 AM  (in 3d 23h 41m 50s)
Projected Epoch Length:   between 12d 20h 28m 37s and 12d 22h 59m 19s

70% into the jump..  Maybe we back off to 7%

[stompix]

some relief we are at 8.9%

Back in the frying pan, or is it in the fire from the pan? 

Latest Block:   830193  (9 minutes ago)
Current Pace:   109.6655%  (1618 / 1475.40 expected, 142.6 ahead)
Next Retarget (latest):   Thursday at 1:07 PM  (in 2d 13h 38m 28s)

Two days to go and we're at 179!!!!! blocks int he last 24 hours, seems almost impossible to get it back under 7, but who knows
Price broke 50k so no slowdown coming from there, maybe quite the opposite, I wouldn't be surprised to see bitmain rising prices!

[philipma1957]

some relief we are at 8.9%

Back in the frying pan, or is it in the fire from the pan?  

Latest Block:   830193  (9 minutes ago)
Current Pace:   109.6655%  (1618 / 1475.40 expected, 142.6 ahead)
Next Retarget (latest):   Thursday at 1:07 PM  (in 2d 13h 38m 28s)

Two days to go and we're at 179!!!!! blocks int he last 24 hours, seems almost impossible to get it back under 7, but who knows
Price broke 50k so no slowdown coming from there, maybe quite the opposite, I wouldn't be surprised to see bitmain rising prices!

for miners 50k is about to turn into 25k if bitmain jumps price it wont sell.

if we are at 65k with these diff jumps it will be brutal when the ½ ing comes.


edit we faded a bit

https://newhedge.io/terminal/bitcoin/difficulty-estimator

Latest Block:   830294  (6 minutes ago)

Current Pace:   108.8490%  (1719 / 1579.25 expected, 139.75 ahead)

Previous Difficulty:   70343519904866.8                            
Current Difficulty:   75502165623893.72                            
Next Difficulty:   between 82060875253569 and 82219326002722
Next Difficulty Change:   between +8.6868% and +8.8966%
Previous Retarget:   February 2, 2024 at 10:35 AM  (+7.3335%)
Next Retarget (earliest):   Thursday at 7:16 AM  (in 1d 21h 28m 33s)
Next Retarget (latest):   Thursday at 7:51 AM  (in 1d 22h 4m 7s)
Projected Epoch Length:   between 12d 20h 41m 4s and 12d 21h 16m 38s

Not sure if we fade to 8% or go back over 9%

either number is huge and cancels out the price rise to 49-50k

we are at 8.6 cents a th
  this jump drops us to 7.9 cents a th

and the ½ ing drops us to  3.95 cents a th

so take your new s21 and 4 x 200 = 8 dollars uses 90 kwatts a day or 5.4 usd

so 8-5.4 = 2.6 dollars a day about a 1500 day roi at six cents.

I use six cents because it is the number that has worked for profit since the beginning of mining.

Now if you are all xp's you make 140 x 4 = 5.60 and burn 4.80 an 80 cent profit which is a 3000 day payback at 6 cent power.

For miners to be out of the wood after the ½ ing we need to be over 70k price fast

[mikeywith]

Phil, i don't think the 6 cents/Kwh holds true anymore, i believe it has changed when the U.S miners took over, we saw deals of 2-3 cents for some of those large players.

Post halving, I think anything above 5 cents and or above 30w/th won't do good for a good while until the markets whale.

As for the pace, the last 24 hours had an average block of 10.6 mins, so we are indeed slowing down, but i doubt we go below 7% for this epoch, which still offset the price increase.

[joker_josue]

As for the pace, the last 24 hours had an average block of 10.6 mins, so we are indeed slowing down, but i doubt we go below 7% for this epoch, which still offset the price increase.

I agree. Many machines had to be turned off so that the value drops significantly in these last 2 days of the cycle.

But, this cycle was interesting and I believe positive, blocks leaving easily, low fees and some appreciation of BTC. Will we be able to keep low fees in the next cycle and the price of BTC continues in a positive phase?

[philipma1957]

https://newhedge.io/terminal/bitcoin/difficulty-estimator


Latest Block:   830417  (12 minutes ago)

Current Pace:   107.7672%  (1842 / 1709.24 expected, 132.76 ahead)

Previous Difficulty:   70343519904866.8                            
Current Difficulty:   75502165623893.72                            
Next Difficulty:   between 81352155141711 and 81399490113170
Next Difficulty Change:   between +7.7481% and +7.8108%
Previous Retarget:   February 2, 2024 at 10:35 AM  (+7.3335%)
Next Retarget (earliest):   Tomorrow at 10:22 AM  (in 1d 2h 54m 35s)
Next Retarget (latest):   Tomorrow at 10:33 AM  (in 1d 3h 5m 24s)
Projected Epoch Length:   between 12d 23h 46m 59s and 12d 23h 57m 49s

174 blocks to go

will we drop under 7% or go back over 8%

price is pushing 52k

from new hedge link above


Latest Block:   830583  (8 minutes ago)

Current Pace:   107.9749%  (2008 / 1859.69 expected, 148.31 ahead)

Previous Difficulty:   70343519904866.8                            
Current Difficulty:   75502165623893.72                            
Next Difficulty:   between 81553628518803 and 81553731450838
Next Difficulty Change:   between +8.0150% and +8.0151%
Previous Retarget:   February 2, 2024 at 10:35 AM  (+7.3335%)
Next Retarget (earliest):   Today at 9:46 AM  (in 0d 1h 14m 5s)
Next Retarget (latest):   Today at 9:46 AM  (in 0d 1h 14m 6s)
Projected Epoch Length:   between 12d 23h 11m 0s and 12d 23h 11m 1s


Just about 8%

price was 43000 on feb 2
price is now 52200 on feb 15   so price is up 21%


okay that seems good for miners right.  lets look at fee action from this thread

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5483213.msg63571239#msg63571239




fees were huge the prior jump

new numbers will be out soon and show a drop in fees from 2 coins a block to a ½ coin

So miners are losing ground and the ½ ing is coming.






we are in the gray zone see below.


Latest Block:   830591  (35 minutes ago)
Current Pace:   100.0000%  (0 / 3.48 expected, 3.48 behind)
Previous Difficulty:   undefined                                    
Current Difficulty:   75502165623893.72                            
Next Difficulty:   between 75502165623893 and 75502165623893
Next Difficulty Change:   between +0.0000% and +0.0000%
Previous Retarget:   Today at 9:07 AM  (NaN%)
Next Retarget (earliest):   February 29, 2024 at 9:41 AM  (in 14d 0h 0m 0s)
Next Retarget (latest):   February 29, 2024 at 9:41 AM  (in 14d 0h 0m 0s)
Projected Epoch Length:   between 14d 0h 34m 46s and 14d 0h 34m 46s




I rarely catch this on my screen shots.

it will update on next block.

my thanks to newhedge.io

[stompix]

I think the difficulty is going to take a break for  while
+7.3% and now +8.2%, that makes up for 16.1% in a month, we're poking at 600exa so another 16% would be some half a million S21!!!!
That would mean roughly
- 1.750 MW
- $2.5 billion (assuming no coupons)

No way this is going to repeat itself!

Latest Block:   830688  (10 minutes ago)
Current Pace:   92.9937%  (97 / 104.31 expected, 7.31 behind)

I'm not really going to bet on a negative but anything over 3% would still be insane.

Btw , looking at that table and at
https://explorer.btc.com/btc/insights-pools
Binance pool is losing marketshare seriously lately, I wonder how their "cloud' mining goes!

[joker_josue]

I'm not really going to bet on a negative but anything over 3% would still be insane.

But, because of this recent appreciation of BTC, might not greater hash power arise, as it compensates for connecting older machines?

It may not have much of an impact, but I believe that with Bitcoin at around $50k, many miners who have old machines will start calling again as it is already profitable.

[stompix]

But, because of this recent appreciation of BTC, might not greater hash power arise, as it compensates for connecting older machines?

If we go for November numbers so a bit of the extreme:
we were at 35k and went to 52k , that's close to 50%
447 exa and 583 exa now that's 30%
so that much increase in hashrate is really chewing at the increase in income per th/s.

https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-mining_profitability.html#3m



I seriously doubt that there is enough gear to make up for 18 exahash so 50 000 older S19 that lose money at 8 cents but are profitable at 9.
So not a question of not being there but being there in such a number!
And would all those have immediate access to all that power? 50k gear is still 150MW..

If we have a 2-3 maybe even 4% spike it will be because of new gear bought on credit not reactivation of tens of thousands of miners, or at least that's what I believe.

[philipma1957]

I'm not really going to bet on a negative but anything over 3% would still be insane.

But, because of this recent appreciation of BTC, might not greater hash power arise, as it compensates for connecting older machines?

It may not have much of an impact, but I believe that with Bitcoin at around $50k, many miners who have old machines will start calling again as it is already profitable.

No here is why.

blocks were 8 coins even 9 coins. first two jumps of the year
now under 7 blocks

diff jumped 16% .

so a block of 9 coins at 40k vs a block of 6.8 coins at 52k is about 360k either way.

this means the price jump was fully canceled by the fee drop.

but wait we had a 16% diff jump up so this means two jumps back you got 360k

now you get 360k x .84 = 302.4 k. so miners have been crushed since 2 jumps passed.

360k vs 303k or

or 100 drops to 84 .  and the ½ ing is comiing. which means

that 84 turns into 42. 

we (miners) are being crushed.

we need 95k by may 1 to be close to today. we need 120k to be equal to the very high jan 1 earnings which were 13 cents a th. we are hurting and coming to a cliff. by we miners. today i advise buying coin not mining it.

[joker_josue]

we need 95k by may 1 to be close to today. we need 120k to be equal to the very high jan 1 earnings which were 13 cents a th. we are hurting and coming to a cliff. by we miners. today i advise buying coin not mining it.

Well, I think this will be the increasing danger. The margin for smaller miners is getting tighter and tighter. And maybe after the next Halving more small miners will turn off the machines.
And for mining to become even more concentrated only in large miners, this means leaving the network completely under the control of these large miners.

I also don't think the solution is higher transaction fees, as this will cause a lack of motivation in using the network. But finding a balance point is not easy.

[philipma1957]

we need 95k by may 1 to be close to today. we need 120k to be equal to the very high jan 1 earnings which were 13 cents a th. we are hurting and coming to a cliff. by we miners. today i advise buying coin not mining it.

Well, I think this will be the increasing danger. The margin for smaller miners is getting tighter and tighter. And maybe after the next Halving more small miners will turn off the machines.
And for mining to become even more concentrated only in large miners, this means leaving the network completely under the control of these large miners.

I also don't think the solution is higher transaction fees, as this will cause a lack of motivation in using the network. But finding a balance point is not easy.

for years 6 cent power was always good for miners.

but this April Six cents will be not good enough for all s19's other than xp units.

Now maybe we just move to 75k which will bail out all s19s at 6 cent power.

[philipma1957]

we need 95k by may 1 to be close to today. we need 120k to be equal to the very high jan 1 earnings which were 13 cents a th. we are hurting and coming to a cliff. by we miners. today i advise buying coin not mining it.

Well, I think this will be the increasing danger. The margin for smaller miners is getting tighter and tighter. And maybe after the next Halving more small miners will turn off the machines.
And for mining to become even more concentrated only in large miners, this means leaving the network completely under the control of these large miners.

I also don't think the solution is higher transaction fees, as this will cause a lack of motivation in using the network. But finding a balance point is not easy.

for years 6 cent power was always good for miners.

but this April Six cents will be not good enough for all s19's other than xp units.

Now maybe we just move to 75k which will bail out all s19s at 6 cent power.

a bit of a retreat.

https://newhedge.io/terminal/bitcoin/difficulty-estimator



Latest Block:   830952  (5 minutes ago)

Current Pace:   94.8199%  (361 / 380.72 expected, 19.72 behind)

Previous Difficulty:   75502165623893.72                            
Current Difficulty:   81725299822043.22                            
Next Difficulty:   between 78207390922773 and 80543945372999
Next Difficulty Change:   between -4.3046% and -1.4455%
Previous Retarget:   last Thursday at 9:07 AM  (+8.2423%)
Next Retarget (earliest):   February 29, 2024 at 3:06 PM  (in 11d 14h 31m 54s)
Next Retarget (latest):   March 1, 2024 at 3:28 AM  (in 12d 2h 54m 8s)
Projected Epoch Length:   between 14d 5h 59m 7s and 14d 18h 21m 21s

Latest Block:   831158  (4 minutes ago)

Current Pace:   93.0051%  (567 / 609.64 expected, 42.64 behind)

Previous Difficulty:   75502165623893.72                            
Current Difficulty:   81725299822043.22                            
Next Difficulty:   between 76445451360519 and 79084906318874
Next Difficulty Change:   between -6.4605% and -3.2308%
Previous Retarget:   last Thursday at 9:07 AM  (+8.2423%)
Next Retarget (earliest):   February 29, 2024 at 9:19 PM  (in 10d 6h 36m 30s)
Next Retarget (latest):   March 1, 2024 at 10:23 AM  (in 10d 19h 39m 47s)
Projected Epoch Length:   between 14d 12h 12m 56s and 15d 1h 16m 14s

Still a decent back off in difficultly.