Is this the kind of world you want to live in? [read]

[GreatArkansas]

I read it and I imagine it, it's a really superb and comfortable life we have right now with Bitcoin.
But I am really curious why there are still a lot of people who don't want it or don't believe how Bitcoin will do in our current day-to-day life.
In our world right now, technology is improving day by day, and with Bitcoin, I believe we will improve more.

[NotATether]

And identity verification to create an address?? what?? You can literally create an address on your own. You don't need anyone's approval or verification to create an address, so again, unenforceable.

Government agencies who draft these kinda things may be full of looneys, but all they'd have to do is 1) require all bitcoin to be held in an exchange 2) require identity verification for ALL exchanges (already done) and suddenly you'll have a section of the world where the only way to legally create an address is on an exchange, with ID verification.

So they will pay lobbyists to advocate rules that make it difficult for the normal person to use Bitcoin, while making even stricter tax reporting requirements when selling bitcoin. Sure, one may say it's the IRS collecting taxes, but then again, the government bails the banks out, time and time again. So what we have is "bitcoiners funding banks" indirectly.

This is mainly a problem in the US and I see that bitcoin users who live there treat their legislation like it should concern the whole world, but it doesn't.
I live in the EU where we still have bitcoin tax havens. Even in countries that want people to pay tax on their bitcoin it's always a tax on profits, not on holding bitcoin. We don't have to report holding bitcoin and we don't have to report selling it for other cryptocurrencies.

Yes, EU has a good tax policy - for now.

It is still hawkish in banning privacy coins, banning mixers, etc. Basically taking the some of the more reasonable legislation proposals from the US (there are a lot of crazy laws over there like Section 174) and applying it region-wide before Congress has even finished squabbling about it.

in the end users walk away with no balance left leaving the businesses hoarding the coin

Now you get it

Bitcoin isn't just a shiny new financial toy to play with, it breaks the system, the data model. That is why banks are so keen to control it through the lobbying they buy regularly.

[Apocollapse]

The thing is many people are still get brainwashed by government.

Bitcoin is Bitcoin, but many people distinguish between dirty coins and clean coins (tainted).

Bitcoin has a high fee, instead of using L2, they choose centralized exchange to buy or hold their coins.

Gains is more important than privacy, they will cheers when a centralized entity want to adopt it.

Bitcoin wasn't failed, but the human is.

[franky1]

in the end users walk away with no balance left leaving the businesses hoarding the coin

Now you get it

Bitcoin isn't just a shiny new financial toy to play with, it breaks the system, the data model. That is why banks are so keen to control it through the lobbying they buy regularly.

i always got it.. it was not me defending/idolising certain groups. it was not me promoting middlemen subnetwork options. i was the one highlighting the risks, flaws, legal issues and centralisations of certain groups

[Sim_card]

The government has always become a threat to our privacy and freedom as they do everything possible to see that they control everything about human. From the look of things the government is trying to control bitcoin and make it frustrating for people who will not give them the opportunity for them to take control of bitcoin. This is why the government have asked SEC to approve bitcoin ETF so that most people can buy and keep their bitcoin with third parties that requires KYC, and they will soon start deceiving the public that keeping bitcoin with a third party is the safest, so that they can be able to control bitcoin. Anything the government controls becomes shit, p2p bitcoin transaction is now becoming a problem due to high transaction fee. I will not be surprised is government buys over all the mining pool and ask for KYC before your transaction will be added to the blockchain, who knows if they government is even behind BRC2p token that has congested the mempool and making it difficult bitcoiners to enjoy cheap transaction fee. Together we can make their plans not possible by staying away from CEX.

[moneystery]

we all want bitcoin to be something that is free to use without any intervention from the government or other institutions, but what is happening now is that the government has started to regulate the use of bitcoin and only allows it to be traded on regulated exchanges which force users to undergo kyc.

banks have also lobbied the government to provide regulations allowing them to invest in bitcoin and altcoins for reasons of diversification, even though their aim is more than that.

we all hate it, but it's hard to fight against it because most governments and institutions are made up of boomers who hate the privacy and decentralization offered by bitcoin. when we are not happy with them, they will say that we are dissidents, so most of us can only remain silent and accept the regulations.

[btc78]

Never allow this to happen, and you can do it by supporting privacy, wherever it exists.

Crypto privacy is the last weapon you have against financial corruption.

*If not mainnet, then Lightning Network.

It is becoming clear every day that the government through institutional investors wants to control the Bitcoin space. These investors are making Bitcoin more popular and accepted but it is gradually moving the sector towards centralisation. Some mining pools are even asking for KYC which is a clear indication that they want to kill privacy. I am afraid that most of us here don't have the financial or political power to stop these moves but at least we could do our little bit by sticking with decentralised platforms. We have to enjoy privacy as long as it lasts by avoiding all platforms that ask for KYC.   

A lot of centralized exchanges such as binance seems to be making a lot of changes in accordance to riles and regulations set by the government itself and i do understand that they are doing this as so they can keep on operating and for now there really has been not much changes that could endanger their users’ privacy but this is just simply an implication of what is bound to happen next

The government can and will do more than a few tweaks here and there if they can not abolish bitcoin or cryptocurrency as a whole might as well accept and join it and try to control it from the inside

[KiaKia]

I have said this too many times before that Bitcoin adopters are using Bitcoin wrong, we can see how many times Bitcoin investors have surrendered their BTC into the hands of centralized exchange, I have never liked this idea in the first place and sometime I have thoughts about what could have been better.

I once thought about what would have happen if Satoshi created a means of exchange for Bitcoin that's not in control of anyone, and also fully decentralized? Maybe this would have control people for the better? Yeah nothing is perfect and we learn as time goes on.

I believe that the problem of Bitcoin is the adopters, they are the ones giving the centralized entities power of them and Bitcoin, if you are using something that's decentralized in a centralized way it's no more decentralized.

[God bless u]

Every day, we are using Bitcoin to buy goods and services, and also to receive money in return for goods and services from others.

We can send money anywhere around the world, without having to pay expensive fees* which have been set by a money transmitter.

But what if it wasn't like this?

What if we were no longer allowed to store bitcoin ourselves, and be forced to leave them on an approved exchange or bank?

What if we needed to submit identify verification every time we wanted to create an address?

What if lobbyists successfully split Bitcoin into two partitions - the restricted walled garden, and the rest of the world?

What if people in charge could set an arbitrarily high fee for anyone who wanted to make a transaction?

It's not so much about killing bitcoin, than it is controlling it. We are sleepwalking our way into a dystopia where Bitcoin is no longer "A Peer-To-Peer Digital Currency". Banks want their share of the pie, and with Bitcoin inevitably becoming a large force to reckon with, they will seek any way to get a share of it. So they will pay lobbyists to advocate rules that make it difficult for the normal person to use Bitcoin, while making even stricter tax reporting requirements when selling bitcoin. Sure, one may say it's the IRS collecting taxes, but then again, the government bails the banks out, time and time again. So what we have is "bitcoiners funding banks" indirectly.

Never allow this to happen, and you can do it by supporting privacy, wherever it exists.

Crypto privacy is the last weapon you have against financial corruption.

*If not mainnet, then Lightning Network.

The fact that every "What if" you mentioned is completely true about fiat money proves that you are absolutely correct about Protecting our privacy and freedom of using Bitcoin at any cost.
Govt and banks are already controlling every aspect of Fiat money. you literally can't freely use that at this point making it even more necessary that we keep Bitcoin as it is supposed to be.
But their influence is increasing day by day. they are taking over privacy of bitcoin everyday in name of regulation.

[Mauser]

But what if it wasn't like this?

What if we were no longer allowed to store bitcoin ourselves, and be forced to leave them on an approved exchange or bank?

What if we needed to submit identify verification every time we wanted to create an address?

What if lobbyists successfully split Bitcoin into two partitions - the restricted walled garden, and the rest of the world?

What if people in charge could set an arbitrarily high fee for anyone who wanted to make a transaction?

The question I ask myself is how could something like that happen? Who would force all those rules upon us, and who would make sure that all those rules are enforced? I definitely wouldn't want to live in a world like that and would probably stop using my bitcoins very quickly. In case I don't have any influence in stopping bitcoin becoming only used by approved exchanges or banks, then my only alternative would be to not use them at all. The coins I already have I would keep spending, because I don't want to lose any money. But I just wouldn't start acquiring any new coins. Only if large number of consumers retreat from from the market we could push for the changes to be reverted.

[Pikachi42]

Every country's government tries to collect taxes from all kinds of transactions. As we use Bitcoin for various services, the government will try to tax it. In that case, the government can take some steps in this regard. As a result, the use of Bitcoin will be threatened.

[so98nn]

Oh yeah, just by reading the entire post I started feeling anxious. Lolz. Nah, I do not want anyone else to control my Bitcoins. Honestly not at this point when I have created such an extensive portfolio by working hard for it. Whether it is simple signature campaigns selling my Pencil artwork or getting paid in BTC from my mod job on other forums, I have managed to create multiple streams of BTC income. I like it, I like it when I see a pop-up from my wallet, there is an incoming transaction or broadcast.

That is a crazy feeling I do not want to lose for some shitty centralization. If we wanted to live like that then, we already have the fiat system to give a feel for it. So no thank you. Bitcoin should prosper in terms of its technology and I hope most of the population understand how holding it on an individual level can help maintain its integrity and decentralization.

[Familian]

As a bitcoiner for which privacy is the bedrock of bitcoin at times when you sit down to meditate on the sudden chilly reactions of the SEC to the approval of the bitcoin ETF you just stand in utmost confusion either to be happy or sad at the same time. The institutional take over is alarming and suspicious and truly the only weapon to the distabilisation to this underground centralized crusade of taker-over against decentralisation is the use of decentralized platforms by bitcoiners. kyc is a bastard and an enemy of financial freedom and privacy.   

[kryptqnick]

Some countries choose to be strict toward Bitcoin, and it's up to people in those countries to change that if they care enough to do that. Overall, I think we're still far from the world the op is describing as a dystopian future. Centralized entities like exchanges demand KYC, but there are other options. And non-custodial wallets are perfectly legal, as they should be. I don't think there are strong arguments for outlawing them, and I couldn't find articles that would support the idea that such a ban is something that can actually happen in major Western economies.

[famososMuertos]

Bitcoin has a great intangible strength in its community, which is trust, but it is not manifested in action to a united collective outside of individual interests.

The power is held by the governments, the establishment, but the force of change is in the unified thought of action, and more than 14 years have passed and it has not been achieved, everyone who gets to know bitcoin is only interested in one thing "to moon ", he doesn't care if the premises of bitcoin are lost.

[franky1]

Bitcoin has a great intangible strength in its community, which is trust,

no
bitcoin was not made to need trust. it was built to verify without the need to trust anyone

however it has become a system where we now need to trust the core devs, because they dont want to be scrutinised or veto'd
we have to trust that their sponsors are not doing deals for money in exchange for code edits. because these sponsors wont disclose their payments as its "commercially sensitive"
we have to trust exchanges/services that offer custodianships. they wont prove reserve holdings nor their source code because its "commercially sensitive"

we are not in the same era of bitcoin as 2009-2013, many things have changed

[BlackHatCoiner]

It is still hawkish in banning privacy coins, banning mixers, etc.

Maybe I'm wrong on this, but there is no official regulation that makes it blatantly clear the EU is hostile to Monero (AKA, the only truly private coin). It's just centralized exchanges voluntarily de-listing it, similar as to how theymos prohibited the promotion of mixers. But, again; I may be wrong.

Don't get me wrong. I very much believe the EU will try to hunt it down as much as possible (even if censorship in Monero isn't possible), but at the moment I just observe exchanges de-listing it as precaution.

Crypto privacy is the last weapon you have against financial corruption.

I disagree. Legislation can bypass it. Currently, they're trying to control bitcoin via legislation (e.g., KYC). If it ever becomes illegal to transact peer-to-peer, and you need to hold everything on a fully regulated KYC-ed exchange, it won't matter if the cryptocurrency is private.

I hate to say this, but the only way to fight back legislation is by itself. That means, voting for politicians that are against this crypto dystopia.

[TheUltraElite]

Who knows? Maybe in the future, they'll extinct DEXs and force the KYC CEXs on us because they want to exert control over us.

But if we continue to think about such pessimistic and negative things, only we are the ones who are going to suffer.

It is a human tendency to be pessimistic and see bad things happen while maybe in your lifetime you would never actually encounter these problems at all. Who knows we may not even live that long to see bitcoin become the natural means of transaction and we are already talking about governments and banks taking everything over.

Instead my point remains same, collect bitcoin, use it if you wish, reap the profit and enjoy your lives instead of making up conspiracy theories or adding fuel to the same.

These things only lead to mental agony and the current average mental state of any person, we dont want that to worsen further.

[legiteum]

I disagree. Legislation can bypass it. Currently, they're trying to control bitcoin via legislation (e.g., KYC). If it ever becomes illegal to transact peer-to-peer, and you need to hold everything on a fully regulated KYC-ed exchange, it won't matter if the cryptocurrency is private.

I hate to say this, but the only way to fight back legislation is by itself. That means, voting for politicians that are against this crypto dystopia.

I've been trying to say the same thing throughout this thread as well.

The good news is that investors don't care about this, and invest in cryptos anyhow as a pure speculation instrument. It's not about "freedom", it's about buying low and selling high.

[franky1]

It is still hawkish in banning privacy coins, banning mixers, etc.

Maybe I'm wrong on this, but there is no official regulation that makes it blatantly clear the EU is hostile to Monero (AKA, the only truly private coin). It's just centralized exchanges voluntarily de-listing it, similar as to how theymos prohibited the promotion of mixers. But, again; I may be wrong.

go to mica link, use the [find in page] option of browser and type in "anonymisation"

mica
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32023R1114
chapter 3 - article 76 - 2&3

2.   Before admitting a crypto-asset to trading, crypto-asset service providers operating a trading platform for crypto-assets shall ensure that the crypto-asset complies with the operating rules of the trading platform and shall assess the suitability of the crypto-asset concerned. When assessing the suitability of a crypto-asset, the crypto-asset service providers operating a trading platform shall evaluate, in particular, the reliability of the technical solutions used and the potential association to illicit or fraudulent activities, taking into account the experience, track record and reputation of the issuer of those crypto-assets and its development team.

3.   The operating rules of the trading platform for crypto-assets shall prevent the admission to trading of crypto-assets that have an inbuilt anonymisation function unless the holders of those crypto-assets and their transaction history can be identified by the crypto-asset service providers operating a trading platform for crypto-assets.

took me 30seconds to search that

they dont mention monero specifically but monero is put into a special category of crypto assets called privacy coins or more officially AEC
(anonymity enhanced currency)