I wonder if the forum would be much better without signatue campaigns

[BabyBandit]

The forum would be 100% better without signature campaigns.  If signature campaigns were to continue, the right way to do it would be for the forum to allow everyone to advertise and receive equal pay through the forum.

Without signature campaigns, we'd see the useless members here that go around starting drama because they need to post something, disappear.  Builders could build without being harassed just so some useless member can start drama to make a couple bucks posting.  Those who are here only for money would go broke and disappear...  Scammers would get tired of hanging around here and not getting paid to post on alts causing them to disappear...  Obsessing over control of the trust network would also disappear, as these people would have no payback for their time spent trying to get control.  We might even see actual productive members return, and professional forum users find another place to post nonsense.  

Good point and thank you for answer from your point of view and didn't take the OP personal like the most others. and you answer what you think. Not what others want you to think! I respect that.

I think without the possibility to earning money from posting, this forum would be at least a little bit better but also much less traffic, but maybe the traffic would be much better!?

Remove the signature campaigns and you will remove 90%+ of the forum traffic. Sure, overall post quality in that case would be better as people would only post when they actually have to add something meaningful, but at the same time forum would become completely irrelevant so in the end signature campaigns are necessary to keep this forum alive.

Agree.

Remove the signature campaigns and you will remove 90%+ of the forum traffic.

I believe it would be 99%+.

Just look at the increase in traffic to the shitcoinstalk forum with the mixer ban here. What has happened is that the mixers have gone to advertise elsewhere and with it many forum members who mostly now write on both forums, but if paid campaigns were banned here what would happen is that virtually everyone who writes here would go to write about the same topics to shitcoinstalk, which also has a Bitcoin section, increasingly active.

You are probably right here, so it's more forums out there also? I didn't know about that but that's perfect for those who want to earn money with "shit"-campaigns. Thanks for sharing it.




And thanks everyone that take time and reply, it seems that the most topics I create start a lot of discussion and I love it.   No matter if where like green, red or blue we are discussing and that's amazing an healthy. Isn't it? We don't always need to agree, but having a open discussion is always fresh and healthy. So thanks people.
And don't take things to personal on internet. We only discussing not hating on each other. Also a tip read the whole OP before replying.

"I may disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
- Evelyn Beatrice Hall in 1906

Love to you all! ❤️

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[Poker Player]

If signature campaigns were to continue, the right way to do it would be for the forum to allow everyone to advertise and receive equal pay through the forum. 

What I had yet to see. I mean, you're a Republican and you say that the liberals in the USA have lost their minds and you have to come up with a socialist proposal for this?

I don't know why I'm not surprised.

You have to consider, what made this forum good enough for businesses to think about advertising here? I'm certain it wasn't the presence of people like PP and JG.

Again, and I'm not surprised either, you're jealous. Because we keep getting hired and you don't get hired.

[Majestic-milf]

I think without the possibility to earning money from posting, this forum would be at least a little bit better but also much less traffic, but maybe the traffic would be much better

Actually, I don't see where you hope to go with this because deep down, you know that if there are no signature campaigns, there'd be less traffic. Let's be realistic and truthful, many people here are more for the campaigns than making posts just for fun that's why you see influx of new users trying to make posts and fishing for merits anyhow necessary to possibly rank up and join so except you are saying the forum will be less crowded and you'd be able to know those who are really here just for the knowledge of Bitcoin and how to apply it in life, then I'd agree but if you are saying what I feel you are saying there, then you and I know that's bullcrap.
 

[The Sceptical Chymist]

An example: The "Lending board" section when all "newbies" posting for a loan, it's like 10-15 people posting nonsense shit every time "No collateral" "You wont get a loan" "Get the fuck out of here".

I'm sorry, I had to chuckle at the above observation--it's spot-on, and that's exactly what the Lending section has been like ever since I registered and Vod was seemingly policing it on his own.  I haven't visited that section in a long time, but obviously things haven't changed.

As far as sig campaigns go, I think the quality of discussion would increase if they went away, but I have no doubt that the entire forum would seem like a ghost town compared to when it did have them.  I'm pretty sure bitcointalk wouldn't become a dead website, but just look at how many members are advertising something in their signature space--and then imagine looking through a thread and ignoring all the posts made by those members.  It'd be crazy, right?

In any case, this topic has been discussed over and over throughout the years, and it's always remained very much a hypothetical situation.  It should probably be shelved until it's close to becoming a reality.

[LoyceV]

I expect that would end all campaigns that pay useless tokens, some campaigns that pay in Bitcoin but at very low rates (I can think of 2 old online casinos) and it would end the biggest Bitcoin paying spam campaign Stake (check the top 20 posters and see who pays most of them).

I think there are worse spam campaigns here, for example Bitvest

That's one of the campaigns "with very low rates" that I mentioned. They could just as well pay altcoins or made-up tokens at that rate.

but are you trying to create new/old enemy?
Don't you know who is wearing that stake signature all the time, and you are telling us that ego-nasty is biggest oldest spammer in forum now
Don't throw away ''your reputation so recklessly''...

What's he going to do? Send more threats?

Just look at the increase in traffic to the shitcoinstalk forum with the mixer ban here. What has happened is that the mixers have gone to advertise elsewhere and with it many forum members who mostly now write on both forums

I wonder if advertising there has any result. If it has, any forum could do the same, and I really doubt it works that way.

[Learn Bitcoin]

Not really. You can be a mindless shitposter and still make a decent income thanks to the fact that there are more spots in signature campaigns than there are quality members.

Who is to blame for that? The campaign managers who allow such users on their campaigns? Or to the posters who enjoy generating shit because they can make money for their spam? I would say it's the campaign manager. Stake generates massive spam in this forum allowing negative tagged users to their campaign. They ignore the neutral tag that was left for shit posting (actmyname feedback). Recently another manager started allowing such posters in their campaign.

Either the manager have to be forum friendly, or the forum have to be more strict. Stake recently launched another signature campaign for Sr members only which means more money for spammers. Some campaigns does not have earned merit requirements. Stake encourage account buy/sells by doing that.

[dkbit98]

OP don't wonder anymore, just join any other forum without signature campaigns and experience how you like it.
Plenty of bitcoin forums available out there but most of them are dead or or life support.

What's he going to do? Send more threats?

Yes, or he can call your local authority to report and lie about you, he is know for doing that and other slimy things.
He can also try contacting manager of campaigns, in your case Foxpup or Icopress (again), asking to remove you from campaign because you disrespected him.
And if you don't worship and love his god idol Elon Musk, you can also get in deep trouble  

[Poker Player]

I wonder if advertising there has any result. If it has, any forum could do the same, and I really doubt it works that way.

Of course it works that way. If you create a forum today and get the traffic and advertisers there, the advertising will have the same effect as here, but it will be a slow process of change, it will not happen overnight.

I don't have data to know the effect that advertising is having there but if the campaigns are paying about 1/3 of what they were paying here it is because they have made a calculation based on the traffic there and other factors.

Now, once you open the pandora's box you don't know how this can end. If as a result of the increase in traffic and there start to advertise more campaigns and increase rates, then we will see a transfer of traffic from this forum to that, which so far has not happened because most of those who have been teleported are writing campaigns in the two forums and giving priority to this forum because in these campaigns they get paid more.

If in the end the campaigns there, mixers or whatever, in a hypothetical future, will pay as the mixers paid here before, with up to $250 per week and here the ones that are left pay no more than $100 then we will see a real migration of traffic.

This is something theymos should take into account for future restrictions on campaigns, and I think it deserves its own thread. He said he did not expect more restrictions in the near future, as it could be on casino campaigns for example, but he has to be aware that more restrictions in this sense would simply mean that traffic would migrate elsewhere, surely the shitcoinstalk forum, which has seen a business opportunity in this and makes it easier for people to go there "teleporting" which is to keep the rank they have here by simply creating an account with the same name.

If you go to that forum the first thing you see is a link at the top saying:

To teleport your account from Bitcointalk, click here

[LoyceV]

Of course it works that way. If you create a forum today and get the traffic

That's the thing: I don't expect the traffic to work that way. If users only join to earn money, you'll miss the basis that made Bitcointalk a valuable place to advertise in the first place.

[examplens]

Of course it works that way. If you create a forum today and get the traffic

That's the thing: I don't expect the traffic to work that way. If users only join to earn money, you'll miss the basis that made Bitcointalk a valuable place to advertise in the first place.

Yobit tried to start a forum, where everyone was paid for every post. (At least as far as I know). However, it was not sustainable in the long term. I think that this is because only one entity paid for the activity on the forum, unlike Bitcointalk, where each campaign has a different owner, so the "cost" of paying for writing posts is shared. A much more sustainable solution.
This only confirms that without paid posts, the forum would hardly survive, at least not in this strength.

As for whether paid campaigns are needed or not, the answer is more than obvious, yes. Certainly, without campaigns, there would be much less spam, but over time there would also be significantly fewer active members. For the high authority of this forum, the most important and only resource is the members. Without activity, many things would begin to slowly disappear from here.
Starting with campaign managers, designers, escrow services... I believe that even LoyceV at one moment would not do his statistics for the 50 most active users out of all 100.

If nothing else can be improved, I would not touch the current system on this forum with further restrictions. Many have brought here some of their knowledge, skills or services and contributed to the "good" statistics of bitcointalk.org, and it's perfectly fine to return some of that to them through earnings.

I expect that would end all campaigns that pay useless tokens, some campaigns that pay in Bitcoin but at very low rates (I can think of 2 old online casinos) and it would end the biggest Bitcoin paying spam campaign Stake (check the top 20 posters and see who pays most of them).

I think there are worse spam campaigns here, for example Bitvest, but are you trying to create new/old enemy?

I would agree with Loyce here, Stake is probably the worst campaign, because as far as I know, they have the biggest weekly budget, considering the number of acceptable posts and participants, but still they decided on the lowest quality and spam. What is even more absurd, I have seen over time at least 4 or 5 users who present themselves as managers of this campaign.

[anonimogmr]

I agree with you in a way that the forum discussion would be better but it would remove all the traffic from the forum. Just look at the replies of this thread and most of them have a signature campaign and of course that all of them are against this. My advice is, just use this forum occasionally, try to go around through different forums and sites and not just focus on one, it's good to go through different opinions and different types of communities. This is something I've noticed for a long time but never bothered to post, that's why I never used this forum that much, but my concern with signature campaigns is not just the posts from newbies or trolls, but mostly because of the forced discussion it creates, where you realize that the same type of topics get repeated to death, and most of the replies are repeated and don't add much from one another, but everyone posts because everyone wants to fill their quota to meet the requirements to get paid from their sponsors.

It created a kind of robotic conversation, it almost seems like most of the replies are bot made or copied from a repository with different deviations. But this is a general problem with cryptocurrency, most of the forums or communities are similar, with different ways of forcing discussion and getting popularity (like reddit with karma, etc) that there isn't a better place to go.

[shahzadafzal]

If you want a forum without the freedom to advertise in your signature, you can literally choose from thousands of other forums. Go there, and see if it's better than Bitcointalk. If it is, you've found your new place to discuss online. If it isn't, you'll be back.

All we need here is enforcing the Signature Campaign Guidelines. I expect that would end all campaigns that pay useless tokens, some campaigns that pay in Bitcoin but at very low rates (I can think of 2 old online casinos) and it would end the biggest Bitcoin paying spam campaign Stake (check the top 20 posters and see who pays most of them).

Wow, amazing stats! I never knew about this stats page... thank you, LoyceV. It looks like "Legendary" members are leading the way, and it makes sense too since Legendary is the final destination for most users, and it stays that way.

But one thing I noticed is "Copper Member: 805 posts (117 users)." Technically speaking, the Copper Member is not a separate position but just an additional title to your existing position. For example, my member rank is "Legendary." However, since I'm wearing a Copper Membership, my posts are included in the Copper Members category, not Legendary.

[libert19]

Even if members are wearing signatures, their comments tend to be making sense, so I'm not against signatures. It's not a sheer spam that you'd think that's detrimental to the forum. I have been to several others forums prior to Bitcointalk, I don't see much difference, signature campaigns are only plus point here, it's like reward for doing what you do anyway.

the shitcoinstalk forum, which has seen a business opportunity in this and makes it easier for people to go there "teleporting" which is to keep the rank they have here by simply creating an account with the same name.

I'd just like to add that teleporting thing was added long back in 2020, it's not a new thing.

[Cryptomultiplier]

Even if members are wearing signatures, their comments tend to be making sense, so I'm not against signatures. It's not a sheer spam that you'd think that's detrimental to the forum. I have been to several others forums prior to Bitcointalk, I don't see much difference, signature campaigns are only plus point here, it's like reward for doing what you do anyway.

the shitcoinstalk forum, which has seen a business opportunity in this and makes it easier for people to go there "teleporting" which is to keep the rank they have here by simply creating an account with the same name.

I'd just like to add that teleporting thing was added long back in 2020, it's not a new thing.

I also think that signature campaigns have done more publicity for Bitcoin than known.
Check out the throve of newbies and ranking up members joining and participating in not just only posting comments or replies, but also learning and using Bitcoin for investments like HODLing or trading or for making simple payment transactions.

I am of the notion that more signature campaigns be brought here, because it would have done more publicity for Bitcoin than a regular commercials, online or word of mouth advert would do.

[oktana]

Spammer is a spammer, whether you pay them or not. You'll see endless number of people who wear paid signatures and post very high quality posts and you'll also see people who don't wear signature but post lots of spam posts.
I think that high-paying signature campaigns motivate some people to share their knowledge on this forum and also it helps the forum to retain good members and maintain an active community.

Thank you! This is exactly what I was trying to type but the words weren’t coming out well enough. I personally think that people are posting a reflection of who they are, because if you think about it, signature bounties don’t ask you to be rude or disrespectful to anyone. I participate in signature bounties but I do not disrespect anyone and would ever want to. If I see a topic I can contribute to, I would simply do that. If someone is saying “Get the fuck out of her”, they’ll likely tell you in person.

[Poker Player]

the shitcoinstalk forum, which has seen a business opportunity in this and makes it easier for people to go there "teleporting" which is to keep the rank they have here by simply creating an account with the same name.

I'd just like to add that teleporting thing was added long back in 2020, it's not a new thing.

Yes, but I understand they made it easier now, right? Or is that link at the top of the page, of all the forum pages, actually, that says:

» To teleport your account from Bitcointalk, click here

has been there since 2020? I ask because I don't know but I would be surprised, because also the possibility of teleporting was there since then but it was not exclusive to Bitcointalk, also to other forums.

[KingsDen]

If you want a forum without the freedom to advertise in your signature, you can literally choose from thousands of other forums. Go there, and see if it's better than Bitcointalk. If it is, you've found your new place to discuss online. If it isn't, you'll be back.

This is a perfect reply to his curiosity or whatever. There are many forums where users are not paid, he could visit most of them and definitely meet a grave yard and then compare it with here. I don't know why people see signature campaign as a benefit to only the participants while the project owners benefit the most.

• The forum benefits from signature campaigns because it guarantees high level participation and dominance of the forum domain 
• The project owners benefit from the signature campaign because it gives their projects the exposure they want
• The campaign participants benefit by getting weekly bucks 

This is a win-win situation for all and shouldn't pose any problems.

and it would end the biggest Bitcoin paying spam campaign Stake (check the top 20 posters and see who pays most of them).

When I joined here newly, I considered stake as a spam campaign. But today, their participants post long wall of text(almost all), if quality is a measure of post length, which is how it is generally regarded here, it could be said that Stake participants no longer spam

[libert19]

the shitcoinstalk forum, which has seen a business opportunity in this and makes it easier for people to go there "teleporting" which is to keep the rank they have here by simply creating an account with the same name.

I'd just like to add that teleporting thing was added long back in 2020, it's not a new thing.

Yes, but I understand they made it easier now, right? Or is that link at the top of the page, of all the forum pages, actually, that says:

» To teleport your account from Bitcointalk, click here

has been there since 2020? I ask because I don't know but I would be surprised, because also the possibility of teleporting was there since then but it was not exclusive to Bitcointalk, also to other forums.

I don't know that either. But, you are probably right, banner specifically mentions about Bitcointalk so it must have happened after mixer ban here.

[Casdinyard]

Here's the thing. I think the forum's gonna be whack if we don't take the chance for advertisers to get in here and make profit.

Bitcointalk's not running on hopes and dreams, pretty sure the moderators here pay a fee to keep the site going and traffic alone's not gonna cut it which I guess they get the funding from advertisers who request to be accepted into this forum. Besides, it's also worth noting that for some people in the bitcointalk campaign management team this is pretty much their major side-hustle or full-time job. A job that only exists because advertisers see this forum as a hospitable place to set up shop. You take that away and you're ridding people of their means to earn money, and with the current financial and economical landscape I doubt that some of them would even get accepted into McDonald's (not to misinterpret, I know a lot of our campaign managers are smart fellas).

The thing is, there's a whole economy in this forum that is only possible because signature campaigns exist, and in the argument about signature campaign members posting shit content, I'd argue that you look into those who doesn't have signatures. Cause campaign managers here like Hhampuz are quick to kick people who they deem as members who bring nothing to the topic and the forum, keeping the whole integrity of the campaign intact and in turn, bringing in fresh and relevant comments/posts within the forum.

So yeah, signature campaigns are a must-have if you want this forum to continue running. It's cool on paper to see people who are doing god's work for the sake of passion but that's not gonna pay the bills my friend.

[tiowran]

This forum will die if there is no signature campaign. Look at other forums related to crypto without signature campaign. They got finished within one year of launch.