Xmr mixed with Btc, good idea?

[jpbh81]

The bitcoin community truly believes that bitcoin mixed with the xmr ecosystem could beat any crypto ever created?  Even bitcoin!??


Please let me know what you think, and we are talking about the ecosystems specially the privacy topic.

[_act_]

Let me make this clear for you that no created coin that exists that is better than bitcoin. If you want privacy, you can go for monero. But you should know that there are other ways you can use bitcoin and have privacy without converting it to monero and back to bitcoin. You can go for coinjoin, mixers and swapping

[Synchronice]

The bitcoin community truly believes that bitcoin mixed with the xmr ecosystem could beat any crypto ever created?  Even bitcoin!??

For privacy purposes, the best option is to use only Monero.
If you want to get bitcoin but still keep your privacy, it's a good idea to swap bitcoin to monero and back then but it will be completely meaningless if you do this immediately. It's best to convert bitcoin to Monero through one DEX, then swap this monero to Bitcoin again through different DEX but keep in mind that if you circulate 1BTC back and forth, you might be compromising your privacy. It's better to have at least two receiving address with different amount of coins.

Let me make this clear for you that no created coin that exists that is better than bitcoin. If you want privacy, you can go for monero. But you should know that there are other ways that you can go for like using coinjoin, mixers and swapping

One should be very careful with coinjoin and mixing too. For example, it's not recommended to coinjoin through Wasabi. Also, one has to keep in mind that one might get in trouble if receives money from a mixer with a bullshit AML score.

[NeuroticFish]

bitcoin mixed with the xmr ecosystem

If you mean using exchanges (of any kind) for attempting mixing bitcoins, it's pretty easy to do it wrong.

Some of the exchanges may keep logs of the transactions, even they say they don't.
Some of the exchanges may keep logs of the IPs, even they say they don't.

It's not easy to do privacy correctly nowadays for Bitcoin.
My take is that if you indeed want privacy, just stay in Monero ecosystem. If you want to do good investment, use Bitcoin.
If you mix them you can easily get something worse than you'd expect, whether you'll know it or not.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

It's not easy to do privacy correctly nowadays for Bitcoin.
My take is that if you indeed want privacy, just stay in Monero ecosystem. If you want to do good investment, use Bitcoin.
If you mix them you can easily get something worse than you'd expect, whether you'll know it or not.

I'd say that about sums it up, but I don't quite understand OP's precis of "mixing" bitcoin and monero.  I have a strange feeling he either doesn't know what he's talking about or is trying to get some merit.

In crypto, bitcoin is king of kings; it kicked cryptocurrency off and remains the most popular, recognized, talked about on the news, and has the largest market cap with *only* a max of 21 million coins.  So if you're looking for an investment in crypto, it beats XMR hands down.  You already said that and made the point about privacy, so I won't belabor it.  But honestly, there isn't a question of having to choose one coin versus the other for most people.  Privacy-oriented individuals naturally flock to XMR, and ROI-wise, it isn't as though it hasn't performed well over the years.  Here's a chart from CMC showing both BTC and XMR:

[NeuroticFish]

but I don't quite understand OP's precis of "mixing" bitcoin and monero

In my head it was either this, either a proposal for a new coin, which I rejected. Some may think that if you make a new coin with 21m cap it will reach to Bitcoin price, strength and usefulness in a month. Of course, that's not going to happen. However, there's indeed a chance I misunderstood what OP meant, hence maybe OP comes back and tells more...

XMR, and ROI-wise, it isn't as though it hasn't performed well over the years

Well, if you look at XMR-USD chart, especially for the last 18 months, you may find it... less depressing 

[Upgrade00]

CMIIW Op, you're talking about combining the qualities of XMR and BTC to create a hybrid that is superior to both systems, having the decentralization, security and fixed supply of Bitcoin as well as the complete privacy of Monero.

On paper it is possible to combine both protocols, but I don't think it would have the appeal that Bitcoin has now.

[jpbh81]

CMIIW Op, you're talking about combining the qualities of XMR and BTC to create a hybrid that is superior to both systems, having the decentralization, security and fixed supply of Bitcoin as well as the complete privacy of Monero.

On paper it is possible to combine both protocols, but I don't think it would have the appeal that Bitcoin has now.

Just high IQ people get that, and you get it!  You completly understand my point, i mean both ecosystems btc and xmr are top tier, i mean im not talking about making a new altcoin, its about a service that can solve the problem that bitcoin will face in privacy and wallet identification that we will face as we adopting it as a normal day-by-day currency,
i love bitcoin i wouldnt choose any crypto over bitcoin,bitcoin changed my life into better,  the unique flaw is the full transparency, i mean if i wanted to chose either to send normal transcation a fully transparent in the blockchain or to send it anonymously with no traceability.

[Z-tight]

i mean both ecosystems btc and xmr are top tier, i mean im not talking about making a new altcoin, its about a service that can solve the problem that bitcoin will face in privacy and wallet identification that we will face as we adopting it as a normal day-by-day currency,

Since you are not talking about making a new altcoin, but a service that makes BTC anonymous, we have privacy solutions like mixers and CoinJoin implementations. There are even some mixers that advertise that they mix BTC to xmr and xmr back to BTC, you have to find them yourself as the forum has banned its members from linking to mixers.

You can also do the swap yourself, but you must go through different steps if you want it to be 'untraceable'. I.E. send BTC to a p2p exchange, convert it to xmr and withdraw to your own wallet, send xmr to a different p2p exchange and convert back to BTC, and withdraw to different BTC addresses and at different times. Take note that you shouldn't send or withdraw all the funds at once, for better privacy break them into smaller chunks and pay attention to the varying times.

[TimeTeller]

Let me make this clear for you that no created coin that exists that is better than bitcoin. If you want privacy, you can go for monero. But you should know that there are other ways that you can go for like using coinjoin, mixers and swapping

BTC is indeed the top priority when it comes to crypto investment.
Alts have been created, abandoned and forgotten but btc still remains to be on top position.
As proven by more than a decade of existence in the market, we can't deny the fact that this is the main actor among cryptocurrencies.
This is also the reason why people are being interested on this market, its high volatility creates a sustained interest among crypto investors.

[Despairo]

Just high IQ people get that, and you get it!  You completly understand my point, i mean both ecosystems btc and xmr are top tier, i mean im not talking about making a new altcoin, its about a service that can solve the problem that bitcoin will face in privacy and wallet identification that we will face as we adopting it as a normal day-by-day currency,
i love bitcoin i wouldnt choose any crypto over bitcoin,bitcoin changed my life into better,  the unique flaw is the full transparency, i mean if i wanted to chose either to send normal transcation a fully transparent in the blockchain or to send it anonymously with no traceability.

If you want a decentralization, you need to pay high fees to secure it, take a look with the current Bitcoin fees, I don't think it's convenient to use as a day-by-day currency.

You can't create one cryptocurrency that using both public and private blockchain at the same time, using public blockchain isn't 100% anonymous, while using private blockchain it didn't give 100% transparency.

The only thing that can be improved in Monero is, make the supply limited just like Bitcoin.

[hugeblack]

bitcoin mixed with the xmr ecosystem

If you mean using exchanges (of any kind) for attempting mixing bitcoins, it's pretty easy to do it wrong.

I think the answer will vary depending on who you are trying to hide your bitcoin from, or in other words, to what extent you want to enhance your privacy:

 - If the purpose is to hide it from your girlfriend/children/your small community/internet hackers, then using bisq or https://exch.cx/ will be sufficient (BTC ---> XMR ----> BTC.)
 - If the purpose is to hide it from the government or the IRS, it is better to be more careful, and this step may not enhance your privacy much.
 - But if the purpose is to hide it from a government agency that has sufficient resources to track you, it will definitely not help you.

[PrivacyOui]

Why mixing Bitcoin and Monero at all?
It's just creating an additional problem by making an intermediary necessary, no matter if exchange or P2P.
In any case, it'll be additional risk for your coins.

Or do you mean a combined coin like a fork? If yes, such a fork is doomed to fail.

Best privacy might be opt-in like a coin join for your Bitcoin.

[Iamcrypticguy]

The bitcoin community truly believes that bitcoin mixed with the xmr ecosystem could beat any crypto ever created?  Even bitcoin!??


Please let me know what you think, and we are talking about the ecosystems specially the privacy topic.

Bitcoin is king. Nothing comes close man

[jossiel]

We're going to have hybrid with that idea of yours. The possibility is there to make it like that but will the developers do that? IMHO, there's no need to do that.

Both have their own beauties. As for XMR, the privacy is there and as for Bitcoin, it has its own feature and protocol for anonymity.

So, if you are for the privacy and you want to keep your transactions in that form then it's simple and so you have to use XMR or any other privacy coins.

[Knight Hider]

- But if the purpose is to hide it from a government agency that has sufficient resources to track you, it will definitely not help you.

Government can't trace XMR transactions, but everything else is a risk. One mistake can connect your transactions again.

[icalical]

Tho it seems like a good idea, but there are some disadvantages of monero privacy, especially on the adoption side. As we know that currently the major problem for Bitcoin adoption is government support because they don't like how Bitcoin is pseudonymous and we also can't deny that because of this people use some workaround to do money laundry with Bitcoin. Imagine if Bitcoin applied the same anonymity as Monero, the struggle will be far more, and government will be more skeptical and they will less likely to legalize or adopt Bitcoin in anyway.

[Yamane_Keto]

Implementation of Mimblewimble will be easier than implementing Xmr mixed with Btc in a decentralized manner due to the difference in blockchain, and all of them are methods and attempts to enhance privacy in the Bitcoin network due to the high transparency provided by Bitcoin transactions.

Xmr mixed with Btc can be a successful idea if it is decentralized, otherwise we cannot say that you mixed your Bitcoins, but it is still possible to trace those currencies and no one may accept them if they are placed on the sanctions list.

[Kruw]

One should be very careful with coinjoin and mixing too. For example, it's not recommended to coinjoin through Wasabi. Also, one has to keep in mind that one might get in trouble if receives money from a mixer with a bullshit AML score.

Wasabi is the best for coinjoining because it provides complete privacy.  The non-recommended coinjoin protocol is Whirlpool, because it links your transactions together by revealing common input ownership and creating traceable change:

Post the tx ID of any Whirlpool transaction and I will show you the tx0 transaction that was created by each of the new entrants.

Ok, here's one: https://mempool.space/tx/ed3131b544fbf00a71709942e483b55e629312ecb181e6e819409f419ee0d226

Where exactly is the privacy loss for new entrants, splitting a single UTXO in to multiple UTXOs to join the pool?

Okay, here's all the payments that can be tracked from the two new participants of the Whirlpool coinjoin transaction:

Entrant 1: bc1q03c0443ausjjdxl2h6ud5m8c0dux0zyg3dqdj7 created 0.00170417 BTC in unmixed change sent to bc1q3fduld0l3r8nclyt5p3r7ak675tekurstn55tl.  Since this UTXO is not private, the sats were marked as unspendable and have not been recovered by the wallet owner  

Entrant 2: bc1qzc8zku26ej337huw5dlt390cy2r9kgnq7dhtys created 0.00191247 BTC in unmixed change sent to bc1qjlltxr443uy236wl4xhpxlr6dgsu0zltlv3m44. This UTXO was used in a second tx0 transaction, creating a huge trail of transactions that could be traced to each other  

The 2nd tx0 transaction created 0.00076348 BTC unmixed change which was sent to bc1qehd7gy8rza9mnzm9wnfjhgw82rp47wmqt7vpgy

Since this unmixed change is below the .001 pool minimum, it was consolidated in a 3rd tx0 with 3 other addresses owned by the same wallet:
31x8GPqrhzdaxiBJa9N5UisuoxbX1rAnHa
16Gw5WKjbxZmg1zhZQs19Sf61fbV2xGujx
3LZtsJfUjiV5EZkkG1fwGEpTe2QEa7CNeY

The 3rd tx0 transaction created .00200317 in unmixed change which was sent to bc1q2p7gdtyahct8rdjs2khwf0sffl64qe896ya2y5
This was spent in a 0.00190000 payment to 3B8cRYc3W5jHeS3pkepwDePUmePBoEwyp1 (a reused address)

That payment left .00008553 in change that was tracked to 3Dh7R7xoKMVfLCcAtVDyhJ66se82twyZSn and consolidated with two other inputs in a 4th tx0 transaction:
bc1qeuh6sds8exm54yscrupdk03jxphw8qwzdtxgde
3ByChGBFshzGUE5oip8YYVEZDaCP2bcBmZ

This 4th tx0 created .00533406 in unmixed change which was sent to bc1qzh699s75smwukg9jcanwnlkmkn38r79ataagd9 which was consolidated with 3 more addresses into a 5th tx0:
3F2qiWQJKQjF7XFjEo8FUYP3AU5AC6RqX8
3HAYYVKUpYbr2ARMdZJr9yVu8xi8UcxtPz
3GQtwwRK31wwCc22q6WS5sCgixUHsG5KaT

The 5th tx0 created 0.00058494 BTC in unmixed change that was sent to bc1qvh2zjcwwkj9y70xulla2semvlav3lty0p3l3w3
This was spent in a .00047290 payment to bc1qvzg8jq6wqtr5navn4e3ps4qrkk9r6n4h98gjck

That payment left .00008411 in change that was tracked to bc1qg6j0f0wfhpktt2l8uzdn48ct3um2xyur40eyzd and consolidated with another input into a 6th tx0 transaction:
31iZLXWfoywhuMZTPGxTkpzphzh2NXshpP

The 6th tx0 created .00753775 in unmixed change that was tracked to bc1qgfll2apc27yct6h2c8r8wq4kqhxjsfrudhhn5q
This was spent in a .00737000 payment to bc1q5emzer2t0sq5dez0zsrqgh6scvwn0n24xsladp (a reused address)

This payment left 0.00010896 BTC in change which has not been spent yet, but the payment only took place 11 days ago, so I assume it will eventually be spent, allowing the Whirlpool user to be tracked even further.