Bitcoin ETFs - Good or Bad?

[pawel7777]

1. Do you want large institutional financial organisations buying large amounts of bitcoins and then locking it up in centralized trading platforms?

Why not exactly? You can't stop anyone from buying bitcoins. If you could, it wouldn't be trustless and censorship-free, meaning it would lose its most important feature.
And if we don't have any control over who is buying it, there's no point of asking such question.
Plus, with large financial institutions buying it, there's less risk of it getting banned.

2. Do you want Bitcoin to be a commodity or a currency? ETFs will destroy the goal of Bitcoin becoming a currency.

Are there actually any developers out there trying to make it useful as a means of payment? Looks like the lightning network is all we have, but it's far from perfection. It seems like the "community" (whatever that means) quietly accepted Bitcoin becoming mostly a speculative instrument.

5. ETFs destroy pseudo anonymity, because it is highly regulated with strict KYC requirements implemented to identify every trader on their platform. 

I think you mean "pseudonymity". Yeah, this is probably the main threat. When most investors choose to hold ETFs rather than real bitcoins, there's a greater risk of regulators pushing for delegalisation of any non-KYC wallets and other services.

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[Kakmakr]

I am not sure why OP is against EFTs as they are just a way for big financial institutions to make profits and help small investors like us. What I do not understand is the reason to come up with such a shit post after ETFs got approved. If Kakmakr was so not into ETF then what kind of response he gave is questionable as it is not related to ETFshere. It looks like he was more concerned with scams and why? I believe it was totally out of context as scams do not relate to Bitcoin ETF. What I felt after going through his posting history is that he is into gambling and with the recent decision by Hhampuz to remove fossils from his signature campaign he is trying to act as a realistic and active participant of a signature campaign. I have zero clue what he is trying to gain from this thread after ETFs have been approved.

Practically ETFs are nothing but a piece of paper given to anyone investing in Bitcoin. Whereas we as a community have the real satoshis in our wallets and we are proud of it. ETFs for me is a way to gain control over those who want to invest in Bitcoin but are clueless. It is evident with the current price of bitcoin, & that ETFs are not the ones we thought that the price of Bitcoin would pump. On the contrary, they made the Bitcoin price go down initially and it will remain the same till halving.

I do not know why you are attacking my thread, when ETFs are the hot topic at the moment. Everyone are talking about it and trying to analyze the impact of this on Bitcoin. I have DM'ed Hhampuz on several occasions and he is very happy with my posting, so stop trying to discredit me to possibly gain a spot for yourself in his signature campaign. 

In any way... a lot of people on this forum still believe that "centralization" of Bitcoin are wrong. Institutional investment are not going directly into Bitcoin, but rather a centralized database that are off-chain. (So it is not a piece of paper, but rather a digital entry into a centralized ledger)

Thank you for the other users that are making constructive contributions to this thread, it is an important "angle" to this relevant discussion.

[kentrolla]

Everything has merits and demerits, but when it comes to Bitcoin ETFs we have both the sides as institutions may get more control and they may use this to manipulate the market but let's first ask ourselves, aren't the market currently being manipulated by whales? It doesn't matter whether it's manipulated by the whales of cyrpto or institutions. But more people will be aware of Bitcoin after ETF approval and there would be a possible increase in adoption as well. Let's adapt to the current situation because we cannot make any changes single handedly because if we keep worrying about the possible outcome then we might be left behind.

[pawel7777]

(...)
Practically ETFs are nothing but a piece of paper given to anyone investing in Bitcoin. Whereas we as a community have the real satoshis in our wallets and we are proud of it. ETFs for me is a way to gain control over those who want to invest in Bitcoin but are clueless.

This could be a big problem right here. Everyone was "clueless" at the start of their Bitcoin adventure, so if ETFs are to take over all the clueless investors, the community will be shrinking.

(...)
It is evident with the current price of bitcoin, & that ETFs are not the ones we thought that the price of Bitcoin would pump. (...)

The dump after the approval was somewhat expected, it's just speculators "selling the news" and the approval was already priced in before it was announced. Some hotheads expected real fireworks in the first days, but we'll have to be more patient as the positive effects will be spread over time.

[pakhitheboss]

I do not know why you are attacking my thread, when ETFs are the hot topic at the moment. Everyone are talking about it and trying to analyze the impact of this on Bitcoin. I have DM'ed Hhampuz on several occasions and he is very happy with my posting, so stop trying to discredit me to possibly gain a spot for yourself in his signature campaign.  

Hello mate! I do not have any grudge against you and neither I am attacking you or your thread. What I have written earlier is what I noticed and checked with your past posting. What I still do not understand is why are creating a topic that is not your forte, what I do understand is that you are not happy about Bitcoin ETFs. My question to you is can you stop them? Next, Hongkong will be coming out with a Bitcoin ETF again my question to you is can you stop them?

In any way... a lot of people on this forum still believe that "centralization" of Bitcoin are wrong. Institutional investment are not going directly into Bitcoin, but rather a centralized database that are off-chain. (So it is not a piece of paper, but rather a digital entry into a centralized ledger)

Buying Bitcoin ETF does not mean that those buying are getting Satoshi, they are only subscribing to paperwork and they won't get anything. Depending on how Bitcoin performs they would be earning USD and nothing else. Where did you come up with the theory of centralization of Bitcoin? Wherein Bitcoin itself is decentralized as you do not have an understanding of what is exactly Bitcoin ETF means in the practical sense. Let me explain to you what is happening and why it is happening.

Financial institutions were against Bitcoin from the day it got hyped after 2017. They were always negative about it as they felt the threat and knew it would destroy their ongoing scam of fiat currency. To stop that they tried their level best by creating a negative image of Bitcoin before the pandemic. Post-pandemic everyone knew why Bitcoin was good for them and that was one of the reasons apart from institutional investors a lot of money came from personal investors.

These guys as in the financial institution in 2022 understood, how much profit they could generate for themselves if Bitcoin could be made a legal investment option. That is why they came up with ETFs and you cannot stop them, but you can only smile at them as they are now going to buy Bitcoin from the market and eventually promote Bitcoin through their investment and advertisements on Bitcoin.

[kryptqnick]

It's not like Bitcoin has been doing great as a currency, and now, suddenly, the ETFs are killing the vibe. It's quite clear from this forum that people largely view Bitcoin as an investment, as something to hodl, not actively spend. The ETFs just provide a more traditional and more centralized way of doing that. Those who care about Bitcoin's decentralization will keep their coins and will keep using non-custodial wallets. But traditional investors can be drawn to Bitcoin ETFs, and this can basically create some new demand.
Ultimately, I think it's a good thing because it helps Bitcoin's reputation, making it look more legitimate. I don't think institutional investors will be able to take Bitcoin under their control this way.

[Kakmakr]

I do not know why you are attacking my thread, when ETFs are the hot topic at the moment. Everyone are talking about it and trying to analyze the impact of this on Bitcoin. I have DM'ed Hhampuz on several occasions and he is very happy with my posting, so stop trying to discredit me to possibly gain a spot for yourself in his signature campaign.  

Hello mate! I do not have any grudge against you and neither I am attacking you or your thread. What I have written earlier is what I noticed and checked with your past posting. What I still do not understand is why are creating a topic that is not your forte, what I do understand is that you are not happy about Bitcoin ETFs. My question to you is can you stop them? Next, Hongkong will be coming out with a Bitcoin ETF again my question to you is can you stop them?

In any way... a lot of people on this forum still believe that "centralization" of Bitcoin are wrong. Institutional investment are not going directly into Bitcoin, but rather a centralized database that are off-chain. (So it is not a piece of paper, but rather a digital entry into a centralized ledger)

Buying Bitcoin ETF does not mean that those buying are getting Satoshi, they are only subscribing to paperwork and they won't get anything. Depending on how Bitcoin performs they would be earning USD and nothing else. Where did you come up with the theory of centralization of Bitcoin? Wherein Bitcoin itself is decentralized as you do not have an understanding of what is exactly Bitcoin ETF means in the practical sense. Let me explain to you what is happening and why it is happening.

Financial institutions were against Bitcoin from the day it got hyped after 2017. They were always negative about it as they felt the threat and knew it would destroy their ongoing scam of fiat currency. To stop that they tried their level best by creating a negative image of Bitcoin before the pandemic. Post-pandemic everyone knew why Bitcoin was good for them and that was one of the reasons apart from institutional investors a lot of money came from personal investors.

These guys as in the financial institution in 2022 understood, how much profit they could generate for themselves if Bitcoin could be made a legal investment option. That is why they came up with ETFs and you cannot stop them, but you can only smile at them as they are now going to buy Bitcoin from the market and eventually promote Bitcoin through their investment and advertisements on Bitcoin.

Let me explain to you to eliminate any confusion. I am not trying to STOP anyone from creating any centralized platform, where they remove bitcoins from circulation, because that cannot be done. I am highlighting the "dangers" that these actions has on the rest of us that own bitcoins.

Do you understand that Bitcoin removed from circulation has a direct impact on the future of this technology? The whole incentive for Miners to mine are built around a reward system (Block reward + Miners fees) ... so with every Halving, the Block reward are significantly reduced and at some stage it will be so small that "miners fees" have to step up to replace it. So, Miners fees are generated when people pay for on-chain transactions and if a significant amount of bitcoins are locked in centralized (ETF) platforms like this, then miners will not have an incentive to mine.

Centralized ownership of coins also create "whales" and whales have significant power to manipulate prices. The ETFs are just one of the investment options, we will see other options popping up like mushrooms soon.

There are still a lot of people out there that are supporting this technology, because they were burnt by the Fiat system. (They want an alternative payment option that are not controlled by centralized Fiat whales) Unfortunately some people are so blinded by greed, that they are blinded by the dangers that this is bringing to this technology.

This forum is a place where we discuss topics from all angles, no matter if it is something that you do not believe it.  

[jasonjm]

You have raised some very good points. With ETF approval, the price and adoption of BTC will increase, and so will the centralization and regulatory checks. The anonymity of BTC holders is also in question.
I think we can not do much about this. Our only option is to hold whatever BTC we have and wait for the right moment.

[BlackHatCoiner]

Let me try answering the questions.

1. Do you want large institutional financial organisations buying large amounts of bitcoins and then locking it up in centralized trading platforms?

My opinion is irrelevant. If another person wants to lock their bitcoin in a centralized platform, then who am I to tell him do otherwise? I'd rather want from the overwhelming majority to respect self-custody, but it is part of the Bitcoin spirit to respect freedom of choice as well.

2. Do you want Bitcoin to be a commodity or a currency? ETFs will destroy the goal of Bitcoin becoming a currency.

Again, what I want is irrelevant. However, if my opinion holds even the slightest value, I prefer to allow each individual to determine for themselves the optimal perspective on Bitcoin. ETFs will definitely not destroy Bitcoin as currency, same as with any other centralized platform.


The following quoted sentences are not questions, so I guess I have to comment them.

3. ETFs take direct investment capital into personal ownership of Bitcoin away and it pulls that capital into centralized trading platforms. (Those coins are owned by the trading platform, because they control the private keys)

As it already happens with centralized exchanges.

4. Fiat whales get control over bitcoins and can be used to manipulate the Bitcoin price. (They control the traditional Fiat investment options, so they will gradually increase their ownership of bitcoins to control that too)

As it already happens.

5. ETFs destroy pseudo anonymity, because it is highly regulated with strict KYC requirements implemented to identify every trader on their platform.

Pseudo-anonymity is the last thing an investor will look when buying an ETF. Nonetheless, it won't affect Bitcoin's pseudo-anonymity in the slightest.

6. Bitcoin's future success rely on actual coins being transfered on the Blockchain, because it generates miners fees to reward the miners. What happens when the Block reward falls away and not enough transaction happen, because bitcoins are locked up in ETFs.

The Bitcoin network has long been congested without any ETFs. We've been at 30-100 sat/vb months now, before ETF was approved. There are countless of reasons why there will be on-chain transactions.

[CryptopreneurBrainboss]

1. Do you want large institutional financial organisations buying large amounts of bitcoins and then locking it up in centralized trading platform

No body would want that but still we can't tell anybody what to do with their Bitcoin. For there to be a good side there has to be a bad side, and for the good to be appreciated the bad has to be present so by the time they lose their assets due to hack for storing their Bitcoin on centralized platforms, they'll learn of self/Non custodial ways of storing Bitcoin and that'll make them to pick interest in owing Bitcoin and not buying Spot EFT that they don't have control over.

2. Do you want Bitcoin to be a commodity or a currency? ETFs will destroy the goal of Bitcoin becoming a currency.

Bitcoin can be both, Bitcoin being a currency isn't happening anytime so if we're been honest with ourselves but that doesn't mean it won't happen in the future. To keep the spirit of adoption going, Bitcoin been accepted as a commodity is a welcome development because that'll help us reach to other audiences that'll all add to the popularity of Bitcoin and from there we can move forward.

4. Fiat whales get control over bitcoins and can be used to manipulate the Bitcoin price. (They control the traditional Fiat investment options, so they will gradually increase their ownership of bitcoins to control that too)

The whales can only manipulate the market for a short period, and by the way if the whales want to manipulate the market they can do that without the Spot ETF, controlling the media is enough power to manipulate the market as the market is being influenced by the media with the spread to fud but all this have temporary effect on the market.

[fuguebtc]

It's not like Bitcoin has been doing great as a currency, and now, suddenly, the ETFs are killing the vibe. It's quite clear from this forum that people largely view Bitcoin as an investment, as something to hodl, not actively spend. The ETFs just provide a more traditional and more centralized way of doing that. Those who care about Bitcoin's decentralization will keep their coins and will keep using non-custodial wallets. But traditional investors can be drawn to Bitcoin ETFs, and this can basically create some new demand.
Ultimately, I think it's a good thing because it helps Bitcoin's reputation, making it look more legitimate. I don't think institutional investors will be able to take Bitcoin under their control this way.

Not only people on this forum consider bitcoin an investment rather than a currency, but even all of the bitcoin community now considers bitcoin an investment. I also regularly participate in discussions on social network X or reddit, I have never seen any discussion about bitcoin being a currency. Most of them only talk about investment, profits, price of bitcoin...

I agree with you, ETFs are a good thing because even without them, we cannot stop whales and institutions from buying bitcoin in large quantities. Once bitcoin becomes more popular it will certainly become more centralized, that is inevitable and it is not ETFs that make bitcoin more centralized.

[dderekwalcott]

All things have two sides, good and bad. Things that work for the benefit of people are marked as good and things that work for the detriment of people are marked as bad. ETFs have some good things and bad things but people expressing their personal opinion helps people to accept the benefit. Whether Bitcoin ETFs are good or bad depends on the investor's goals and perspective. Its advantages and disadvantages are discussed based on different perspectives:

1.ETFs offer the highest growth avenues to sell or sell, to provide a differentiator for average investors.

2.ETFs are regularly monitored, which can help provide a sense of security to investors and reduce the risk of fraud or fraud.

3.ETFs are exchangeable stocks and are an easy option for investors in the traditional financial markets.

4.ETFs can hold different crypto currencies or asset portfolios, to provide investors with a diverse experience within the crypto space.

Disadvantages of Bitcoin ETFs:
Investors in Bitcoin ETFs rely on the fund's manager and the underlying exchange. If any of these parties face problems, it can affect the value of the ETF. All funds may be blocked.

IMO, ETFs indirectly influence bitcoin's decentralization. SEC approves 11 Bitcoin spot ETFs, now waiting for what will happen next.

[0t3p0t]

Bitcoin ETF is for me a good thing because it will possibly lure more potential investors that was previously hesitant and doubtful when it comes to acquiring this decentralized asset. The idea of SEC approval on Bitcoin ETF will possibly trigger a massive adoption on Bitcoin in the near future.

[Despairo]

I agree with you, ETFs are a good thing because even without them, we cannot stop whales and institutions from buying bitcoin in large quantities. Once bitcoin becomes more popular it will certainly become more centralized, that is inevitable and it is not ETFs that make bitcoin more centralized.

But it doesn't mean we should make a bad thing becomes worse, no one can stop whales and institutions to buy Bitcoin in large amounts, but having more regulation or any other centralized forms make the situation gone worse.

Many people want to attack Bitcoin e.g. censoring dirty Bitcoin, ordinals inscriptions, tightening KYC laws and whales want to own large share of Bitcoins. But fortunately, no one can ever stop Bitcoin by using these threats.

[Cryptmuster]

But it doesn't mean we should make a bad thing becomes worse, no one can stop whales and institutions to buy Bitcoin in large amounts, but having more regulation or any other centralized forms make the situation gone worse.

Many people want to attack Bitcoin e.g. censoring dirty Bitcoin, ordinals inscriptions, tightening KYC laws and whales want to own large share of Bitcoins. But fortunately, no one can ever stop Bitcoin by using these threats.

I see only positive things in the fact that Bitcoin has attracted the attention of such big players. Even before them, there were whales who sought to concentrate a large number of bitcoins in their hands, and if this trend continues, it will only lead to an increase in bitcoin prices. Bitcoin is becoming an asset that people want to own not for making daily payments, but as an investment. I don’t know if this is good or bad, maybe Satoshi didn’t want this, but we won’t be able to influence this in any way now, natural processes for the market are happening.

[criptoevangelista]

But it doesn't mean we should make a bad thing becomes worse, no one can stop whales and institutions to buy Bitcoin in large amounts, but having more regulation or any other centralized forms make the situation gone worse.

Many people want to attack Bitcoin e.g. censoring dirty Bitcoin, ordinals inscriptions, tightening KYC laws and whales want to own large share of Bitcoins. But fortunately, no one can ever stop Bitcoin by using these threats.

I see only positive things in the fact that Bitcoin has attracted the attention of such big players. Even before them, there were whales who sought to concentrate a large number of bitcoins in their hands, and if this trend continues, it will only lead to an increase in bitcoin prices. Bitcoin is becoming an asset that people want to own not for making daily payments, but as an investment. I don’t know if this is good or bad, maybe Satoshi didn’t want this, but we won’t be able to influence this in any way now, natural processes for the market are happening.

There is no way to control it, the market is dictating the trend of bitcoin, it is now digital gold, using it as everyday money is difficult, after all, if you have dollar and bitcoin, are you going to spend the bitcoin and keep the dollar? It makes no sense to accumulate a currency that will only lose value.

The whales have been keeping an eye on this for years, they are always one step ahead.

[fuguebtc]

I agree with you, ETFs are a good thing because even without them, we cannot stop whales and institutions from buying bitcoin in large quantities. Once bitcoin becomes more popular it will certainly become more centralized, that is inevitable and it is not ETFs that make bitcoin more centralized.

But it doesn't mean we should make a bad thing becomes worse, no one can stop whales and institutions to buy Bitcoin in large amounts, but having more regulation or any other centralized forms make the situation gone worse.

Many people want to attack Bitcoin e.g. censoring dirty Bitcoin, ordinals inscriptions, tightening KYC laws and whales want to own large share of Bitcoins. But fortunately, no one can ever stop Bitcoin by using these threats.

You need to remember one thing that we live in a centralized world and the government is the one who controls this world. ETFs or regulations are inevitable, what we need is to adapt to them. Do you have any way to combat or prevent these things from happening ? No, we can't do anything but complain and grudgingly accept it . So I think instead of complaining and not being able to change the problem, we should adapt to things.

Bitcoin is decentralized but people have forgotten that our world is centralized and bitcoin is just a small part of the world , don't expect it to completely change the world to our liking.

[8rch7]

Probably Bitcoin ETFs approval is good side with many investor have large expected waiting for this announcement, but behind ETFs bitcoin approval have bad side with bitcoin price suddenly dump almost one week after approving bitcoin actually drop drastically.
Since first time ETFs bitcoin approval bitcoin can get raise most highest price but its not hold for longer time before bitcoin going drop lower price again. In my opinion, ETFs approval is bad side make bitcoin can't stable on higher price and failed break out above $50k for this month with potential almost close few percent left. Have bad side with ETFs approval looking for current bitcoin price, although many people celebrate after ETFs approval but face the truth with bitcoin drop drastically.

[avikz]

Small answer to this small question!

ETF is good for Bitcoin but companies like blackRock or Vanguard are harmful. The amount of money these companies control, it gives them enormous power to manipulate the Bitcoin market as per their wish. Can you see what is happening in the market now?

Everyone expected Bitcoin to reach 50000 once the ETF is approved. But in reality the price has dropped down which gives these big corporates the power to purchase more Bitcoins so that they can create a dominance in the market. A lot of drama is yet to be unfolded.

[ivankoh]

For me, a bitcoin ETF would make bitcoin practical for widespread adoption, but of course governments would try to make an effort to regulate institutions that file ETFs, going against the grain decentralization of bitcoin, in which case the ETF will be more or less influential. But any ETF issue will have its advantages and disadvantages, how the market will adapt and reflect subsequent needs, including how the regulations will be met by the market. Personally, I think that ETFs have many advantages in terms of sustainability for bitcoin in the future.