LoyceV
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April 19, 2024, 02:43:26 PM |
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Sure, but we are not talking big savings here, unless you turned all devices in your house to lower power. Refrigerator and other devices are spending much more power and they are working 24/7. It's not a bad idea to buy power meter for sockets to check how much power they all use. Been there, done that. The energy crisis made me more aware. I wouldn't compare my fridge with a node though: I can't really go without a fridge. But if I were to buy a new one, it would be an energy efficient one. Now that I check it: you're wrong on the power consumption. This one (260l fridge, 103l freezer) consumes 11.9W on average. That's a lot less than my current laptop. That's really impressive! I even purchased totally silent analogue wall clock. Lol. I bought one without a "tic" sound every second. But now that it's getting older, it makes 5 sounds per second.
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Findingnemo
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April 19, 2024, 04:37:40 PM |
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Sure, but we are not talking big savings here, unless you turned all devices in your house to lower power. Refrigerator and other devices are spending much more power and they are working 24/7. It's not a bad idea to buy power meter for sockets to check how much power they all use. Been there, done that. The energy crisis made me more aware. I wouldn't compare my fridge with a node though: I can't really go without a fridge. But if I were to buy a new one, it would be an energy efficient one. Now that I check it: you're wrong on the power consumption. This one (260l fridge, 103l freezer) consumes 11.9W on average. That's a lot less than my current laptop. That's really impressive! I even purchased totally silent analogue wall clock. Lol. I bought one without a "tic" sound every second. But now that it's getting older, it makes 5 sounds per second. You guys are taking things too extreme. ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif) Minimalist life is understandable what about this new trend, power saver? ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Mini PCs are not really suitable for 24/7 operations cause it comes with congested area, more heat so probability of crashing is high and many of this kind doesn't come with cooler fans.
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| | . .Duelbits. | │ | ..........UNLEASH.......... THE ULTIMATE GAMING EXPERIENCE | │ | DUELBITS FANTASY SPORTS | ████▄▄▄█████▄▄▄ ░▄████████████████▄ ▐██████████████████▄ ████████████████████ ████████████████████▌ █████████████████████ ████████████████▀▀▀ ███████████████▌ ███████████████▌ ████████████████ ████████████████ ████████████████ ████▀▀███████▀▀ | . ▬▬ VS ▬▬ | ████▄▄▄█████▄▄▄ ░▄████████████████▄ ▐██████████████████▄ ████████████████████ ████████████████████▌ █████████████████████ ███████████████████ ███████████████▌ ███████████████▌ ████████████████ ████████████████ ████████████████ ████▀▀███████▀▀ | /// PLAY FOR FREE /// WIN FOR REAL | │ | ..PLAY NOW.. | |
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JossBrown
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April 20, 2024, 07:19:41 AM |
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Mini PCs are not really suitable for 24/7 operations cause it comes with congested area, more heat so probability of crashing is high and many of this kind doesn't come with cooler fans. Depends on the manufacturer & their BIOS ofc, but you could always apply additional tweaks, so the CPU will throttle faster. And there might be more options, e.g. disabling turbo boost or (depending on the CPU) hyper-threading or a couple of cores. (But you'd need to test stuff like this, especially on an off-the-shelf PC, because going too low power with BIOS tweaks might destabilize the system, and you'd worsen the situation that you originally wanted to improve.) But if you use the machine only for Bitcoin (which you should), then some BIOS tweaks might be OK. An occasional reboot is a good thing, too, in order to free swap memory etc. My current node is running Ubuntu Server, which is probably solid enough for a reboot once a year, even on an old office Mini PC, but I still reboot about once a month when applying system updates. If you maintain your system regularly, you will automatically reboot more often. As for fans… that's why I'm a proponent of DIY builds. For these passively cooled boards, one chassis fan would probably be sufficient to thwart any potential heat instability issue, and you could also get a model (e.g. from Noctua) that comes with a low or ultra low noise adapter, which tend to draw less additional power. Moreover, these boards usually come with a standard BIOS, and are perfectly fine for additional low power tweaks. But, as was said earlier, DIY builds cost a bit more… it will take many years to make up for the additional investment costs, maybe never, and you might prefer to use that extra money to buy some sats instead.
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Findingnemo
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![](https://bitcointalk.org/Themes/custom1/images/post/xx.gif) |
April 20, 2024, 08:31:35 AM |
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Mini PCs are not really suitable for 24/7 operations cause it comes with congested area, more heat so probability of crashing is high and many of this kind doesn't come with cooler fans. Depends on the manufacturer & their BIOS ofc, but you could always apply additional tweaks, so the CPU will throttle faster. And there might be more options, e.g. disabling turbo boost or (depending on the CPU) hyper-threading or a couple of cores. (But you'd need to test stuff like this, especially on an off-the-shelf PC, because going too low power with BIOS tweaks might destabilize the system, and you'd worsen the situation that you originally wanted to improve.) But if you use the machine only for Bitcoin (which you should), then some BIOS tweaks might be OK. An occasional reboot is a good thing, too, in order to free swap memory etc. My current node is running Ubuntu Server, which is probably solid enough for a reboot once a year, even on an old office Mini PC, but I still reboot about once a month when applying system updates. If you maintain your system regularly, you will automatically reboot more often. As for fans… that's why I'm a proponent of DIY builds. For these passively cooled boards, one chassis fan would probably be sufficient to thwart any potential heat instability issue, and you could also get a model (e.g. from Noctua) that comes with a low or ultra low noise adapter, which tend to draw less additional power. Moreover, these boards usually come with a standard BIOS, and are perfectly fine for additional low power tweaks. But, as was said earlier, DIY builds cost a bit more… it will take many years to make up for the additional investment costs, maybe never, and you might prefer to use that extra money to buy some sats instead. I don't have much experience with the mini PCs but as far as I know it's not really customisable in terms of hardware so we can only make changes via software tweaks. The price of custom build decent PC can be around $200 with most recent processor which is positive than going with an outdated gen processor. Fan comes with processor itself enough for this very particular purpose but indeed a little more space along with fans comes along cabinet can reduce heat dissipation a lot.
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| | . .Duelbits. | │ | ..........UNLEASH.......... THE ULTIMATE GAMING EXPERIENCE | │ | DUELBITS FANTASY SPORTS | ████▄▄▄█████▄▄▄ ░▄████████████████▄ ▐██████████████████▄ ████████████████████ ████████████████████▌ █████████████████████ ████████████████▀▀▀ ███████████████▌ ███████████████▌ ████████████████ ████████████████ ████████████████ ████▀▀███████▀▀ | . ▬▬ VS ▬▬ | ████▄▄▄█████▄▄▄ ░▄████████████████▄ ▐██████████████████▄ ████████████████████ ████████████████████▌ █████████████████████ ███████████████████ ███████████████▌ ███████████████▌ ████████████████ ████████████████ ████████████████ ████▀▀███████▀▀ | /// PLAY FOR FREE /// WIN FOR REAL | │ | ..PLAY NOW.. | |
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LoyceV
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April 20, 2024, 08:40:11 AM |
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Minimalist life is understandable what about this new trend, power saver? ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Using less power doesn't mean you have a minimalist lifestyle. I don't mind using a lot of power, but if I can do the same thing with less, I do it. Mini PCs are not really suitable for 24/7 operations I don't have much experience with the mini PCs Any PC can run 24/7. If it doesn't have enough cooling, it won't last an hour. If it has enough cooling, there's no upper limit. Just clean dust from the fan once in a while.
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dkbit98
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April 24, 2024, 02:29:49 PM |
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I wouldn't compare my fridge with a node though: I can't really go without a fridge. But if I were to buy a new one, it would be an energy efficient one. Now that I check it: you're wrong on the power consumption. This one (260l fridge, 103l freezer) consumes 11.9W on average. That's a lot less than my current laptop. That's really impressive! Don't trust, verify (with power meter). You are assuming that everyone is using brand new fridge with class A energy classification, but I don't think they do. I could probably give better example with electric heater or air conditioner that are biggest power consumers but I wanted to have something that is working 24/7. Only other thing I could think off is light bulbs, but there are old style incandescent and new led lights, so it is wide range of consumption. Here is what AI told me about average fridge power consumption: A typical American-style fridge freezer uses between 40W and 80W (minimum) to 150W and 400W (maximum) of electricity. A fridge uses around 100W to 250W of electricity, with an average daily energy usage of 1 to 2 kilowatt-hours (kWh) or about $150 per year. A large fridge uses around 180W or 1575 kWh annually. Some fridges may use as little as 10W to 15W for table top models. This is what AI is saying for average laptops: Laptops typically use between 30-70 watts of power when in use. The average power consumption of a laptop is around 50-60 watts.
Power Consumption by Activity:
Web browsing: 20-40 watts Office work: 30-50 watts Video streaming: 40-60 watts Gaming: 60-120 watts Video editing: 80-150 watts
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DaveF
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April 27, 2024, 06:01:41 PM |
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Same here. I even purchased totally silent analogue wall clock.
You need one of these then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmos_clockhttps://www.jaeger-lecoultre.com/us-en/clocks/atmos... This is what AI is saying for average laptops: Laptops typically use between 30-70 watts of power when in use. The average power consumption of a laptop is around 50-60 watts.
Power Consumption by Activity:
Web browsing: 20-40 watts Office work: 30-50 watts Video streaming: 40-60 watts Gaming: 60-120 watts Video editing: 80-150 watts At least with the mid range Dells and HPs that I deal with, I see a high variation of power pull from the wall when using cheap generic AC adapters vs. using the OEM ones. Better build quality and better components probably saves you 3 to 5 watts at a minimum. Over years and years of 24/7 use that does add up to a real number. -Dave
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RickDeckard
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April 28, 2024, 11:23:30 AM |
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~ My own DIY Mini-ITX rackmount build with an N100 that I slapped together last night would use: - Inter-Tech 1U-K-126L rackmount chassis
- 2 * Noctua NF-A4x20 PWM fans
- ASRock N100DC-ITX
- 19V 120W DC power supply
for a total of approx. €250 w/out shipping for a barebones build w/out memory and storage. More than an old refurbished Mini-PC of course, but not much more than e.g. an N100 Beelink. Which route did you end up taking? Did you actually build that node or are you waiting for some results regarding ODROID-H4 Plus performance? (Hardkernel already has a case available in their website bt the way)
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JossBrown
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I'm still on my Dell Optiplex 9020M, and it's doing a great job, so I'm in no rush. But at some point I'll want to upgrade to newer hardware, and I'll probably go the DIY rackmount route. Looking at the Odroid H4+, that's actually the best option currently. I'd choose the Mini-ITX kit and use my own rackmount chassis. But the board seems to have everything you need: up to 48 GB of RAM, eMMC for Ubuntu Server boot volume, x4 gen3 M.2 SSD for the data volume (timechain etc.), and a SATA SSD as backup volume. Compared to the Odroid, the ASRock N100DC-ITX, while surely a nice efficient board, would probably be overkill. As for the Odroid cases, I could see myself using one of them with a second Odroid board as a remote Lightning watchtower node. But that would be stage 3. ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Jet Cash
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April 29, 2024, 05:55:39 PM |
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I'm thinking of using a Raspberry Pi5 with 8Gb of ram and a 2Tb Crucial P3 NVME disk. It's very quiet, well cooled, well supported and has lots of connectivity options. You can use a laptop as a terminal to control it, so you don't need a screen keyboard or mouse. Power is provided through an USB-C port. I want to use this to research my old hard drives with wallets on them, but it would be great to run a full node. The ssd is extremely fast, and that helps in handling blockchain files.
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Offgrid campers allow you to enjoy life and preserve your health and wealth. Save old Cars - my project to save old cars from scrapage schemes, and to reduce the sale of new cars. My new Bitcoin transfer address is - bc1q9gtz8e40en6glgxwk4eujuau2fk5wxrprs6fys
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dkbit98
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May 02, 2024, 02:44:18 PM |
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I like the design, but I don't like the price ![Shocked](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/shocked.gif) Quartz mechanism is good enough for me as a silent wall clock. At least with the mid range Dells and HPs that I deal with, I see a high variation of power pull from the wall when using cheap generic AC adapters vs. using the OEM ones. Better build quality and better components probably saves you 3 to 5 watts at a minimum. Over years and years of 24/7 use that does add up to a real number.
Every watt counts, and gold rated power supply makes a huge difference compared to regular ones ![Wink](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/wink.gif) I'm thinking of using a Raspberry Pi5 with 8Gb of ram and a 2Tb Crucial P3 NVME disk. It's very quiet, well cooled, well supported and has lots of connectivity options. You can use a laptop as a terminal to control it, so you don't need a screen keyboard or mouse.
Does Raspberry have any plans to Pi500 version with integrated keyboard, similar like Pi400 that was released few years ago?
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RickDeckard
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Reviews of Odroid H4 are starting to appear[1] (H4 Plus vs H4 Ultra). It seems that the Ultra reaches high temperatures (around 60ºC) and since it doesn't have holes to mount a fan, but this could be surpassed by mounting the fan in the case (although it is not optimal). The section where he played an emulated game in there (God of War 2) wasn't that great as well, but that could had to do with some configurations. H4 Plus ended up being the chosen winner for his review (considering that is cheaper, low powered consumption, less heat), so it's a case that the pricier may not be the best overall. Price wise, the H4 Plus in Europe is hovering around 180 €[2] and this is just the board. Considering charger, memory (16GB) and SSD (1TB) it goes up to ~ 380 € and it would still need a case. The Beelink Mini S12 Pro can be found for 200 € in Europe right now + a 1TB nvme stick for around ~ 60 €, so the price difference ends up being more than 120 € considering that we are missing a case. As it stands currently, it ends up being a better alternative (price wise) between the two.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmBaTZ9S114[2] https://www.odroid.nl/odroid-h4-series/Odroid-H4-Plus
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DaveF
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May 20, 2024, 11:37:32 AM |
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Reviews of Odroid H4 are starting to appear[1] (H4 Plus vs H4 Ultra). It seems that the Ultra reaches high temperatures (around 60ºC) and since it doesn't have holes to mount a fan, but this could be surpassed by mounting the fan in the case (although it is not optimal). The section where he played an emulated game in there (God of War 2) wasn't that great as well, but that could had to do with some configurations. H4 Plus ended up being the chosen winner for his review (considering that is cheaper, low powered consumption, less heat), so it's a case that the pricier may not be the best overall. Price wise, the H4 Plus in Europe is hovering around 180 €[2] and this is just the board. Considering charger, memory (16GB) and SSD (1TB) it goes up to ~ 380 € and it would still need a case. The Beelink Mini S12 Pro can be found for 200 € in Europe right now + a 1TB nvme stick for around ~ 60 €, so the price difference ends up being more than 120 € considering that we are missing a case. As it stands currently, it ends up being a better alternative (price wise) between the two.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmBaTZ9S114[2] https://www.odroid.nl/odroid-h4-series/Odroid-H4-PlusAssuming the Beelink is the same one that Amazon is selling here in the US after getting the 1TB drive you now have the old 512GB that you can sell dropping the price even more. Still, the H4 is a neat product, will probably pick one up if the price drops since it's going to probably get played with and tested and put in a cabinet and forgotten about...... -Dave
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RickDeckard
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May 20, 2024, 12:12:05 PM |
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Assuming the Beelink is the same one that Amazon is selling here in the US after getting the 1TB drive you now have the old 512GB that you can sell dropping the price even more.
The one I saw was from a random vendor in Amazon Germany[1] and it came with a 500 GB PCIe M.2 SSD which hovers around 40-50 €. If you're able to sell it you'll be able to have the unit ready with a 1TB for overall 210-230 € depending on the SSD you get. Still, the H4 is a neat product, will probably pick one up if the price drops since it's going to probably get played with and tested and put in a cabinet and forgotten about...... So it is not only my disease it seems, good to know. If the price does drop I would also consider fetching a unit, but right now the price difference is big when compared to other (similar) options available.
[1] https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Intel-Alder-Lake-N100-Computer-Bluetooth5-2/dp/B08DFL2L1F
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RickDeckard
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August 03, 2024, 12:36:51 PM |
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This could be interesting (?) - Radxa recently has launched Radxa X4[1] with the following attributes: Intel N100 CPU (4 Alderlake CPU cores, up to 3.4GHz) Intel UHD Graphics (750MHz) 4/8/12/16GB LPDDR5 4786MT/s 2.5Gbit RJ45 Ethernet (with PoE support via HAT) M.2 M-Key connection for M.2 2230 NVMe drives 12V USB-C Power Delivery Input 3x USB-A 3.2 (10Gbps) ports, 1x USB-A 2.0 WiFi 5 & BT5, or WiFi 6 & BT5.2 (the latter on 8GB RAM models and up) 2x Micro HDMI (up to 4K60) Raspberry Pi RP2040 to control the 40-pin GPIO headers Fan & RTC Battery headers 3.5mm Headphone & Microphone Jack eMMC is available either to solder yourself or when you order a SKU that includes it
Some reviews have starting to appear[2] but it's still too early to tell I suppose. The product is also out of stock in all of the approved shop partners of Radxa so we won't be able to actually grab one at the moment even if we wanted to. I believe that SSD's for this format will be expensive so perhaps it won't be a good option when compared to others already in the market with Intel N100, but it may be useful for some other applications as well.
[1] https://radxa.com/products/x/x4/[2] https://bret.dk/intel-n100-radxa-x4-first-thoughts/
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DaveF
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August 03, 2024, 04:01:07 PM |
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This could be interesting (?) - Radxa recently has launched Radxa X4[1] with the following attributes: Intel N100 CPU (4 Alderlake CPU cores, up to 3.4GHz) Intel UHD Graphics (750MHz) 4/8/12/16GB LPDDR5 4786MT/s 2.5Gbit RJ45 Ethernet (with PoE support via HAT) M.2 M-Key connection for M.2 2230 NVMe drives 12V USB-C Power Delivery Input 3x USB-A 3.2 (10Gbps) ports, 1x USB-A 2.0 WiFi 5 & BT5, or WiFi 6 & BT5.2 (the latter on 8GB RAM models and up) 2x Micro HDMI (up to 4K60) Raspberry Pi RP2040 to control the 40-pin GPIO headers Fan & RTC Battery headers 3.5mm Headphone & Microphone Jack eMMC is available either to solder yourself or when you order a SKU that includes it
Some reviews have starting to appear[2] but it's still too early to tell I suppose. The product is also out of stock in all of the approved shop partners of Radxa so we won't be able to actually grab one at the moment even if we wanted to. I believe that SSD's for this format will be expensive so perhaps it won't be a good option when compared to others already in the market with Intel N100, but it may be useful for some other applications as well.
[1] https://radxa.com/products/x/x4/[2] https://bret.dk/intel-n100-radxa-x4-first-thoughts/It looks neat, but I keep coming back to the fact that you can get a new N100 system with 16GB of RAM and a 1TB SSD for under $200 All in a box ready to do. Things like the Radxa are WAYYYY cooler to tinker with. But the 8 GB Radxa + drive + case + power supply and you are at a higher price point. To get you what? For tinkering yeah it's much better. To run a node + explorer + other BTC / crypto related things? I'll take the mini PC. And as has been pointed out, used PCs are even cheaper. Will probably still pick one up to tinker with if they become more available, but to play with not for node use. -Dave
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RickDeckard
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It looks neat, but I keep coming back to the fact that you can get a new N100 system with 16GB of RAM and a 1TB SSD for under $200 All in a box ready to do. Things like the Radxa are WAYYYY cooler to tinker with.
Can't deny that. At the time of my previous writings the Beelink had a higher price but now it's sitting on 189€ at Amazon.de[1] which makes it enticing for a new unit (even still considering buying a new SSD card). I guess that this thread has become a nice collection of small forms devices that have potential uses for numerous applications. However, for the initial task at hand - running a node and blockchain explorer - there's no denying that a refurbished/used pc (such as the Dell Optiplex M range of machines) ends up being a more modest choice.
[1] https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Intel-Alder-Lake-N100-Computer-Bluetooth5-2/dp/B08DFL2L1F
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DaveF
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August 03, 2024, 10:50:01 PM |
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It looks neat, but I keep coming back to the fact that you can get a new N100 system with 16GB of RAM and a 1TB SSD for under $200 All in a box ready to do. Things like the Radxa are WAYYYY cooler to tinker with.
Can't deny that. At the time of my previous writings the Beelink had a higher price but now it's sitting on 189€ at Amazon.de[1] which makes it enticing for a new unit (even still considering buying a new SSD card). I guess that this thread has become a nice collection of small forms devices that have potential uses for numerous applications. However, for the initial task at hand - running a node and blockchain explorer - there's no denying that a refurbished/used pc (such as the Dell Optiplex M range of machines) ends up being a more modest choice.
[1] https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Intel-Alder-Lake-N100-Computer-Bluetooth5-2/dp/B08DFL2L1FYeah, Amazon US has a couple with 1TB drives for less ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftalkimg.com%2Fimages%2F2024%2F08%2F03%2F5z9Pl.png&t=665&c=WFRNpbRIlwEUiw) But they are priced according to region. https://www.amazon.com/KAMRUI-Lake-N100-Computers-Computer-Ethernet/dp/B0CL7DLH6T/?th=1Once you get to this kind of price point even the used / refurbs become tough to justify. The advantage of the RPi is that it does keep it's value due to their long production runs of the same product. I just sold 1 of these for about what I paid for it 3 years ago: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5364113Try that with a PC..... -Dave
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ABCbits
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August 04, 2024, 09:11:48 AM |
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I believe that SSD's for this format will be expensive so perhaps it won't be a good option when compared to others already in the market with Intel N100, but it may be useful for some other applications as well.
Not only more expensive, but it also have smaller maximum capacity. I did quick search and most result shows 512GB or 1TB option, with fewer option for 2TB. Current Bitcoin blockchain size is about 600GB, where it grows almost 100GB in last year. So 1TB isn't best option in long run, especially if you also want to run self-hosted block explorer/Electrum server which require more storage capacity. Yeah, Amazon US has a couple with 1TB drives for less ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftalkimg.com%2Fimages%2F2024%2F08%2F03%2F5z9Pl.png&t=665&c=WFRNpbRIlwEUiw) The price is attractive, but it's a shame company who make those mini PC rarely offer 2TB option which better for running full node in long term. You either have to buy bare-bone version (where you also buy and put RAM/SSD by yourself) or buy ready-to-use ones which have extra SSD slot.
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