Bitcoin was created to reform money and provide financial freedom

[we-btc]

Bitcoin was created as a response to the financial crises of 2008.  The idea was to create a decentralized electronic cash system that had a limited supply.  The current fiat currencies used worldwide are both centrally controlled and have no limit on how much the issuer can create.  The US dollar, as an example, has lost 98% of it's purchasing power since 1913 when the Federal Reserve was granted the power to print US dollars.

The Bitcoin solution was to create a currency that had a limited supply and transactions that were peer-to-peer so that no financial institutions would have financial power over the individual.

Fast forward 16 years and almost all Bitcoin transactions are run through third parties.  To buy Bitcoin most people use exchanges which you must KYC on. To store Bitcoin most people use wallets that require the use of 3rd party nodes for transactions. This includes Hardware wallets.  Most people use Bitcoin like an investment not an electronic cash system. Banks are buying up large quantities of Bitcoin to hold for customers buying their ETFs. Arguably developers are adding things like ordinals to the code which have slowed transactions and increased fees above what would be reasonable for small financial transactions.

I see the potential for Bitcoin and am working on projects to help with the original mission - financial freedom for individuals world wide.

I am not going to give up on the dream!  Are you?

[Mate2237]

Though I might be wrong on this but I think the main or the core reason of creating bitcoin was to use it to trade p2p which is to buy goods and services online but that part or function of bitcoin creation is not working perfectly yet and I don't know if it will work in the nearest future. Because everyone one is going into the investment aspect of it and not the goods and services function. As for me the most interesting part of bitcoin is the part you can use it to buy something like Laszlo Hanyecz who used bitcoin to buy Pizza.

I like to do that but no store in my area is accepting bitcoin in fact they don't even know the name. And those who use exchange to buy bitcoin because it is the fastest way to acquire bitcoin.

[GreatArkansas]

(....)
I see the potential for Bitcoin and am working on projects to help with the original mission - financial freedom for individuals world wide.

I am not going to give up on the dream!  Are you?

The process you mentioned, where banks and other big money places gather up Bitcoin to support things like ETFs, shows how things are changing. But, the world of cryptocurrency is full of changes and different parts.

The problems you've pointed out also mean there are changes for new ideas and solutions that come from the community itself.

[thecodebear]

Nothing wrong with using Bitcoin as an investment, ETFs, entities besides individuals owning Bitcoin. That's all natural because Bitcoin is money.

But for sure it would be good if we could development a much larger ecosystem of decentralized exchanges. The ones I know of have almost no volume compared to crypto exchanges and so you don't get good prices on them. Also they are naturally harder to use.

I think getting a DEX movement going and getting people on LN is the way to go.

LN allows payment to be cheap and instant, which is the only way payments are going to get popular. Even if at first its just used how Venmo is used to pass money between friends, rather than pay at merchants which requires merchant adoption. Though taxes are of course a problem if you're passing bitcoin between friends that's all taxable. Though it'd be a a pretty small use of bitcoin (not like selling lots of bitcoin) and the IRS wouldn't even be able to track it so maybe that's the sort of thing that could slide under the table without any real issues, sorta like when workers get paid in cash.

And then if DEXes could get popular enough to get real volume their prices wouldn't be so far away from the spot price and they'd become more useful. And then you can keep your bitcoin privacy. But its hard to get to that point because crypto exchanges are just so much easier to use.



Realistically I think building p2p connections happens at the local level. There are small communities in various places in the world who regularly use Bitcoin because they have a weak currency or don't have easy access to digital banking services and stuff like that, so it benefits everyone in the community to use Bitcoin. I think p2p usage gradually spreads out from those places to encompass a wider and wider net. The average person in a first world country and lots of non-first world countries don't have a huge need for p2p payments. For those populations growing one's wealth and wealth sovereignty I think are currently the main use cases. Though of course eventually being able to easily spend the wealth, including in p2p ways rather than just customer-merchant ways, would be ideal.

[DooMAD]

Fast forward 16 years and almost all Bitcoin transactions are run through third parties.  

It's a shame, but I don't think people, for the most part, are going to learn.  The longer I'm a part of this, the more I become cognisant that most people don't truly appreciate what any of this is really for.

The option is certainly there for people to use Bitcoin in the correct manner if they wish to.  They'll be the rare fortunate ones to gain the privacy and security benefits.  I'll always advocate for taking this approach.  But I think the number of people actually doing it will remain relatively small.  Even if it is safer and more beneficial.

However, if the majority want to piss that gift up the wall and use Bitcoin in a way that completely sacrifices the security and privacy, that's their choice.  When the coins get stolen, or the exchange disappears, or all their personally identifiable data gets leaked, they better be aware of the fact that they have no one to blame but themselves.  

You get exactly what you choose with this.  On your head be it.

[Distinctin]

If I’m not mistaken, bitcoin was created not to replace fiat but to act as a reserved currency and serve as another option for people who prefer to use bitcoin more than fiat. Bitcoin brings freedom not actually to spare us from using banks but to open new opportunity for digital currency payment system. And I think for now, we can see a lot of people doing transactions with bitcoin but for those countries who are not yet legalizing bitcoin, they see bitcoin as an investment tool that can provide excellent profits.

[Maus0728]

As much I'd love what you're saying about bitcoin, that's not what it's for, @Mate2237's purpose of bitcoin is much closer to the bitcoin whitepaper and if you read the abstract of the whitepaper, it didn't say there anywhere that Satoshi wants financial freedom or something, maybe it was down the line but bitcoin was made so we can do a trust less transaction and cut off the middleman. Maybe that purpose of financial freedom just got interpreted by other people and now it's the norm that we believe to be the reason why bitcoin was created, Satoshi didn't have it in his mind that bitcoin would grow this high so I don't believe that it's made because of the 2008 financial crisis, it's just a convenient coincidence.

[seoincorporation]

Fast forward 16 years and almost all Bitcoin transactions are run through third parties.  To buy Bitcoin most people use exchanges which you must KYC on. To store Bitcoin most people use wallets that require the use of 3rd party nodes for transactions. This includes Hardware wallets.  Most people use Bitcoin like an investment not an electronic cash system. Banks are buying up large quantities of Bitcoin to hold for customers buying their ETFs. Arguably developers are adding things like ordinals to the code which have slowed transactions and increased fees above what would be reasonable for small financial transactions.

You are right, a decentralized project is slowly becoming centralized, the fact that police can size all your coins at any time if they decide your activity is an illicit one is a dead end for the game. But we still have the freedom to use our own nodes, our own wallets and trade it pear to pear.

I see the potential for Bitcoin and am working on projects to help with the original mission - financial freedom for individuals world wide.

That's cool, it would be nice to know more about those projects if you can tell us more. Maybe that way you get more developers interested on it.

[Darker45]

I think Bitcoin isn't really a project that came into Satoshi Nakamoto's mind simply because of the financial crisis in 2008. The development of electronic money or digital cash has been in progress already for decades before that global economic crisis hit. Satoshi's work is but a part of this progress. If you look back at Bitcoin's forbearers and inspirations such as eCash, Hashcash, and others, they were already there prior to the crisis. So I think Bitcoin isn't a response to it.

[crypto_panther]

Most people use Bitcoin like an investment not an electronic cash system. Banks are buying up large quantities of Bitcoin to hold for customers buying their ETFs. Arguably developers are adding things like ordinals to the code which have slowed transactions and increased fees above what would be reasonable for small financial transactions.

I see the potential for Bitcoin and am working on projects to help with the original mission - financial freedom for individuals world wide.

Bitcoin has a decentralized use case.  More money means more freedom.  Satoshi's vision requires more adoption.  Higher price means more attention.  Attention drives adoption.

[PrivacyG]

The option is certainly there for people to use Bitcoin in the correct manner if they wish to.  They'll be the rare fortunate ones to gain the privacy and security benefits.  I'll always advocate for taking this approach.  But I think the number of people actually doing it will remain relatively small.  Even if it is safer and more beneficial.

One problem.  Due to every body else happily abiding to Know Your Customer and all other sorts of policies and regulations, us who choose to benefit from Privacy and Security are starting to suffer.  The option to use Bitcoin as it was meant to be used is still there.  But this option is slowly becoming not an option any more if only few of us can spend and receive without giving up personally identifiable information.

By restricting us, every body else kind of enforces the Know Your Customer way into every body.  Realistically speaking.  How difficult is it today to buy and sell Bitcoin with no Know Your Customer compared to five years ago?  The people who were abiding before and who did not care is not affected in any way today.  On the other end of the stick, we are affected enormously.

It is nice that we still get a chance to use Bitcoin the way we want.  But while that is due to the lack of Censorship in Bitcoin, restrictions make it almost impossible to use it the way we really want nowadays.

[Easteregg69]

The option is certainly there for people to use Bitcoin in the correct manner if they wish to.  They'll be the rare fortunate ones to gain the privacy and security benefits.  I'll always advocate for taking this approach.  But I think the number of people actually doing it will remain relatively small.  Even if it is safer and more beneficial.

One problem.  Due to every body else happily abiding to Know Your Customer and all other sorts of policies and regulations, us who choose to benefit from Privacy and Security are starting to suffer.  The option to use Bitcoin as it was meant to be used is still there.  But this option is slowly becoming not an option any more if only few of us can spend and receive without giving up personally identifiable information.

That is if you also want a piece of the kings crown on top of the bitcoins. As Fiat.

Tell me. Who pays the roads? What have the Romans ever done for us?

[avikz]

I see the potential for Bitcoin and am working on projects to help with the original mission - financial freedom for individuals world wide.

I am not going to give up on the dream!  Are you?

Bitcoin was created to provide financial freedom - that's true! But do you disagree to the fact that it has it's disadvantages as well? It can't scale up to handle the volume of transactions required for global adoption. LN solved the problem to a certain extent but the reach of LN is still low and it's a sidechain. A lot of Bitcoin puritans may oppose my comments, but Bitcoin is a bad payment method if we compare to the traditional payment methods we have available in the market.

Bitcoin is a great investment asset which has outperformed every other investment asset in the market. But as a payment processor, we have better options available.

[reagansimms]

Satoshi idea was to create the latest breakthrough called "BITCOIN" which is decentralized and has a limited supply due to his concerns about fiat currency issued by the government "Central Bank". Satoshi felt that there was inequality or no fairness in the public's trust in the banking system which often lends money in the form of credit bubbles with very little reserves. Abuse of trust from banks is considered to be detrimental to society in terms of being vulnerable to identity theft and account draining.

Satoshi criticized the system built by the government by launching Bitcoin to the public. With Bitcoin he hopes to provide justice to society. The presence of Bitcoin can bridge society back to using rare assets that are considered valuable because of their scarcity.

The hope is that Bitcoin can be used as a better alternative to fiat currencies which are vulnerable to devaluation and abuse of trust. Bitcoin which is very limited in quantity and cannot be regulated by any authority, makes most of its value come from people's trust in its supply and demand. Bitcoin has provided financial freedom for people who have always been in the grip of a government that always abuses trust.

[we-btc]

It can't scale up to handle the volume of transactions required for global adoption.

Bitcoin is the only decentralized, peer-to-peer system we currently have and it needs to scale to handle more transactions per second.  For some reason this issue is being ignored by the developers and community when it should be the main focus.  The changes that have been made to Core recently would indicate that the developers and community want it to be slower and more expensive.

LN solved the problem to a certain extent but the reach of LN is still low and it's a sidechain.

Lightning is fast but NOT peer-to-peer or decentralized.  This introduction of multiple intermediaries in every transaction will cause additional fees and transaction monitoring.  Unfortunately channel liquidity provides an issue for merchants as well.  They must provide inbound liquidity or pay a recurring fee for a 3rd party to provide it who can monitor their transactions.

The main point here is that over time the channel providers will consolidate and become the future banks.

Bitcoin is a bad payment method if we compare to the traditional payment methods we have available in the market.

Bitcoin has solved several problems traditional payment methods have not.  It is decentralized, peer-to-peer and has a limited supply to name a few. The only thing we need to fix is the speed of transactions.  Lets focus on that.  The solution shouldn't make it slower and more expensive. Don't centralize it. Don't add 3rd party intermediaries, and don't increase the supply limit of 21,000,000.

[blckhawk]

If I’m not mistaken, bitcoin was created not to replace fiat but to act as a reserved currency and serve as another option for people who prefer to use bitcoin more than fiat. Bitcoin brings freedom not actually to spare us from using banks but to open new opportunity for digital currency payment system. And I think for now, we can see a lot of people doing transactions with bitcoin but for those countries who are not yet legalizing bitcoin, they see bitcoin as an investment tool that can provide excellent profits.

Yes it wasn't created for that, it was supposed to be a system of online payment where the actors are the buyer and the seller, there's no middlemen like the bank, that's what's in the abstract of the whitepaper that @Maus0728 shared, at least that's what I understand from that abstrac but it didn't say that it's supposed to be doing any kind of giving us freedom but from what it did over the years, I guess you could say that it's what bitcoin gives the people, the freedom from the banks.

To me though another thing that bitcoin has given me besides the freedom is the fact that I've had my eyes opened on things that I'm otherwise blinded if bitcoin didn't lead me to believe in them.

[we-btc]

Yes it wasn't created for that, it was supposed to be a system of online payment where the actors are the buyer and the seller, there's no middlemen like the bank, that's what's in the abstract of the whitepaper that @Maus0728 shared, at least that's what I understand from that abstrac but it didn't say that it's supposed to be doing any kind of giving us freedom but from what it did over the years, I guess you could say that it's what bitcoin gives the people, the freedom from the banks.

To me though another thing that bitcoin has given me besides the freedom is the fact that I've had my eyes opened on things that I'm otherwise blinded if bitcoin didn't lead me to believe in them.

Bitcoin was designed to be decentralized with a limited supply.  In addition, it can be transacted with peer-to-peer.  This is unlike the current fiat systems which require a trusted third party.
The purpose is no person or group can enrich themselves while devaluing the currency.  Decentralization and privacy are preserved with no third party transactions. This is a better form of electronic cash than the existing fiat systems we currently use. The US dollar is 98% digital now.

When a person works and that value is converted into a store of value (currency), the worker should custody and control this money without a 3rd party taking control.  In our current fiat system the value is immediately transferred to a bank who controls your access to it.

Money is power and the banks now control all of it. This power is used to elect politicians, create laws and influence the masses through propaganda.

If Bitcoin is adopted as a currency every system we have will be impacted in a way that gives individuals back their sovereignty.

[thecodebear]

The option is certainly there for people to use Bitcoin in the correct manner if they wish to.  They'll be the rare fortunate ones to gain the privacy and security benefits.  I'll always advocate for taking this approach.  But I think the number of people actually doing it will remain relatively small.  Even if it is safer and more beneficial.

One problem.  Due to every body else happily abiding to Know Your Customer and all other sorts of policies and regulations, us who choose to benefit from Privacy and Security are starting to suffer.  The option to use Bitcoin as it was meant to be used is still there.  But this option is slowly becoming not an option any more if only few of us can spend and receive without giving up personally identifiable information.

By restricting us, every body else kind of enforces the Know Your Customer way into every body.  Realistically speaking.  How difficult is it today to buy and sell Bitcoin with no Know Your Customer compared to five years ago?  The people who were abiding before and who did not care is not affected in any way today.  On the other end of the stick, we are affected enormously.

It is nice that we still get a chance to use Bitcoin the way we want.  But while that is due to the lack of Censorship in Bitcoin, restrictions make it almost impossible to use it the way we really want nowadays.

True. But there are good reasons why KYC rules have been enforced. It's the reason why those rules exist in the first place.

It shouldn't surprise anyone that exchanges run by companies have to comply with financial laws. Only reason that didn't used to be the case for crypto exchanges is because the industry was new enough and small enough that govt wasn't even paying attention.

But for sure as a community we need to get more/better options of keeping privacy through decentralized exchanges and stuff. Though then you get into the quandry that if Bitcoin DEXes actually grew large enough to be very useful for people, that means they'd have enough volume to be useful to criminals and terrorists and the like who want to sell large amounts of money. So then, any moral creator of a decentralized exchange has to be like ok how do I stop bad people from using what I made to be used by regular law abiding people who just want to take advantage of bitcoin's privacy. But it's literally KYC/AML laws that do that, which are what take away privacy haha.

I don't know what the win-win answer for that quandry is. It's the age old privacy vs security question. People want both, but kind of like blockchain's decentralization vs capacity issue, increasing one tends to weaken the other. Only thing I can think of would be local bitcoin networks spread all over the world so you can exchange fiat-to-bitcoin and vice versa locally instead of having global large volume DEXes that are beacons to criminals. I guess that's basically what LocalBitcoins was back in the day but I'm pretty sure they closed up shop years ago.

[we-btc]

True. But there are good reasons why KYC rules have been enforced. It's the reason why those rules exist in the first place.

Only thing I can think of would be local bitcoin networks spread all over the world so you can exchange fiat-to-bitcoin and vice versa locally instead of having global large volume DEXes that are beacons to criminals. I guess that's basically what LocalBitcoins was back in the day but I'm pretty sure they closed up shop years ago.

US dollars are used in criminal activity way more than Bitcoin and remember Bitcoin is a public ledger.  Because of this Bitcoin is not an ideal choice for criminals. Also ask the question, if Bitcoin is used in crime less than fiat currencies are, why are the powers that be claiming otherwise?

The question is should we take peoples right to privacy and sovereignty away because there are criminals in the world?  Find another way to fight crime other than taking peoples freedoms.

[Asiska02]

Fast forward 16 years and almost all Bitcoin transactions are run through third parties.  To buy Bitcoin most people use exchanges which you must KYC on. To store Bitcoin most people use wallets that require the use of 3rd party nodes for transactions. This includes Hardware wallets.  Most people use Bitcoin like an investment not an electronic cash system. Banks are buying up large quantities of Bitcoin to hold for customers buying their ETFs. Arguably developers are adding things like ordinals to the code which have slowed transactions and increased fees above what would be reasonable for small financial transactions.

I see the potential for Bitcoin and am working on projects to help with the original mission - financial freedom for individuals world wide.

I am not going to give up on the dream!  Are you?

Nobody is giving up on bitcoin’s dream as a Bitcoin enthusiast. Since inception, we have seen how it has evolved and having a wide adoption and use today. Although, the main purpose of its creation must have been deviated from by many people but it still stands its ground as a means of financial freedom, free from the non-privacy of financial holdings. Exchanges came and are also serving their purposes even though it is not advisable to bank on them with your funds with them. Without them, we wouldn’t have had a lot of bitcoin holders today as the use of non-custodian wallets have become very difficult for some people to use and will always want to use the simplest way to acquire some bitcoin. Overtime, since you’re already in the space, there’s need to learn how to use and operate your non-custodian wallets for the safety of your funds in bitcoin.

Though I might be wrong on this but I think the main or the core reason of creating bitcoin was to use it to trade p2p which is to buy goods and services online but that part or function of bitcoin creation is not working perfectly yet and I don't know if it will work in the nearest future. Because everyone one is going into the investment aspect of it and not the goods and services function. As for me the most interesting part of bitcoin is the part you can use it to buy something like Laszlo Hanyecz who used bitcoin to buy Pizza.

The early adopters of bitcoin are the ones that have shown more concern to the use of bitcoin for the purpose it was created for, just like the man you set example to have bought some pizza with his bitcoin. People have now transgressed to explore other benefits of holding the cryptocurrency which is using it as a means of investment because of its volatility nature. I don’t have any issue but to support the all means people use the cryptocurrency for, since they all serve a purpose which has helped in the massive number of users that have embraced and are now using bitcoin for different purposes and to their own advantage.