Buy Buy Buy or Sell Sell Sell?

[Tmoonz]

Bitcoin is for tradersbut if you are a trader and you know about Bitcoin, you cannot see Bitcoin and traders as the same thing because Bitcoin is a long-term investment. Because of its nature, it will always be seen as a long-term investment with a bright future. Any trader who sees Bitcoin as a trader has no knowledge of Bitcoin and is also a greedy person who should be careful with making quick profits. Investing in Bitcoin does not guarantee that you will make a profit in the coming months or that you will get the kind of profit you desire quickly. Bitcoin requires a lot of patience, and you can not invest if you lack patience.

There is no method that can satisfy anyone who lacks patience and tries to invest in Bitcoin. Many people have sold for their Bitcoin for since because they were unsure of it and when they noticed that its price had increased. It is not bad to sell your Bitcoin because you own it, but if you are patient, you will earn more because as long as we are alive, we all have a bright future.

We don't do that here dear, you can go to the trading discussions board and make such statement then you'll get full support from those with the trading mentality but here we teach people the right thing and also learn including sharing good ideas amongst ourselves, the point of Discussion in this thread is relating to investment which is buying and holding Bitcoin for a longer period but if you think otherwise you can go ahead and keep trading your bitcoin and see how much profits you'll make compared to when you hold it with continues accumulation.

 The statement ahead was what I intended replying to what you said concerning Bitcoin being for trading but reading through everything you've said I think I get your point but then you should know that Bitcoin is now seen more as a store of value, therefore it's better to buy and hold to make more profits in the future than trading it which involves very high risk and could make an investor lose everything, majority of the people who choose trading with Bitcoin always end up with regrets.

According to @ruykeri, Bitcoin is not for traders. From what I understand, someone who is into trading can invest in Bitcoin as long as they understand it, they have patience and how it works. He is correct about traders because they are always interested in anything that can yield a quick profit, which is one of the reasons some traders find it difficult to invest in Bitcoin. I didn't make it clear that it looks like I support trading, I didn't support trading here, and I don't engage in trading. Trading is extremely risky and can cause you to lose everything at once. It is better to invest in Bitcoin and stick it it rather than take the chance of trading. Bitcoin has always been a wise investment and will continue to be the best cryptocurrency asset.

According to you, Trading is extremely risky and can make you loos all you have at a go, yea, that's truth. Your points were also clear that you don't do trading at all. That's also okay, it's your choice. Yiu further said said it is better to invest in invest in Bitcoin and stick to it rather than take the chance of trading. This is where I don't agree with you a bit and want to  come in. Trading is actually risky but there are people making it real big in the trading world. There are  trading experts, not that they don't loos at times, but they know there way and they make profits too, good one at that. That's why trading is still one amongst the biggest paying online business in the world, yea!

Is Bitcoin investment even easier? I know the DCA strategy allows you to accumulate Bitcoin easily as your income can carry you provided you are working with other funds that will support you during this accumulation period. But then, not every investor has the disciplined mindset, patience and zeal to buy and hold for long as it requires. So, to such people, they sell at a slight rise of Bitcoin, and they are okay. Such persons would even prefer trading to investing.

So, it's all boils down to your choice and what you think you can do profitably. If you can buy and hold for long, good for you. If you think trading is where you fit in and can manover you way in the trading space and make gains, then enjoy yourself. Some can even do the two combined, it's a plus for such a trader and investor too.
Known is really all that a bed or roses and easy going. It requires alot from you to get it right at the end

Trading is risky and should not be encouraged, it will take away your peace of mind, Bitcoin is a volatile asset and volatility will affects you emotionally when you are a trader compared to an investor, trading will only give you a small profit and most times they sell at lost as a result of fear and panick, but with investing for a long term gives you that peace of mind to allow your asset to regenerate and grow over time, Bitcoin is best for a long purpose and anyone trading for a few dollar profits are wasting their time and they may end up buying back at a price higher than their selling price, I believe that this thread gives priority to buying and holding Bitcoin for long term rather than trading kind of discussion. Bitcoin investment is easier, take care of your basic needs and figure out is have a discretionary income to invest with for long term perspective 4 to 10 years or more.

[IceLincoln]

It is true that sometimes challenges can surpass what is in our emergency and that is why we should make our emergency funds to be strong and big just as our portfolio. I believe a wise investor will device a means when something of this nature happens and they will handle it in such a way that it won't really show or affect there portfolio. But the truth is sometimes this kind  of scenario doesn't happen just like that I mean it is always rare and before situation like this would happen a good investor ought to have set up things because as you are investing as an investor you are also calculating how to handle or approach a situation if something went wrong.

I don't agree with you. If we focus more on how to make the emergency fund to be more than the investment it means you underate the outcome of an investment. One thing you need to know is that you can't solve all your problems even if you have all the money in this life. Emergency fund is very vital for every investors and you can't really tell when you will be in a problem that requires quick solution.  Take your investment very serious and also have some money for emergency,  atleast it can help one to have some relief when money is need to settle some challenge.

Good point Y3shot. There will always be emergencies and problems that will require urgent attention and money is the only thing that helps to provide solutions to the problems but that shouldn't make you to prioritize your savings on emergencies more than you do with your investment because you don't spend to make profit you only invest to make profit now or in the future. If money for your investment should take 70% of your total income your emergency funds should not take up to 20% because you are not working to solve problems when though you will always encounter problems a long the line.

While I might agree with you on what you’re saying concerning prioritising investment over creating emergency funds, I disagree with your allocation of percentage for your income. It is advised to invest from your discretionary income and that’s also where you get your emergency funds from.
Instead of saying “If money for your investment should take 70% of your total income your emergency funds should not take up to 20%”…., You should Share it in this Manner if  investment money takes 70% of your discretionary money while emergency funds takes 20% and the rest 10% in reserves. If you take 70% of your total income into investment, how are you going to take care of your essential needs and services you’ll end up using your investment to survive thereby killing that investment journey.

[Jewan420]

While I might agree with you on what you’re saying concerning prioritising investment over creating emergency funds, I disagree with your allocation of percentage for your income. It is advised to invest from your discretionary income and that’s also where you get your emergency funds from.
Instead of saying “If money for your investment should take 70% of your total income your emergency funds should not take up to 20%”…., You should Share it in this Manner if  investment money takes 70% of your discretionary money while emergency funds takes 20% and the rest 10% in reserves. If you take 70% of your total income into investment, how are you going to take care of your essential needs and services you’ll end up using your investment to survive thereby killing that investment journey.

Yes, you are right. To determine the amount of investment, we should not chase after the gross income but chase after the discretionary income. We cannot say at the beginning of the month how much money we will spend to meet our daily needs for the current month or how much money will be in the discretionary income fund at the end of the month. So, it seems wrong to select 70% of the total income for investment. This may not be applicable to everyone, but I always determine the investment amount at the end of the month. After getting salary, I keep spending money to meet my daily needs. When I get salary in the next month, I save the remaining money after meeting the complete needs of the previous month in the discretionary income fund and select the money for investment. In this process, I do not have to go through any complicated calculations.

Although I give equal priority to the formation of a backup fund and the formation of an investment fund, when the formation of a backup fund is completed or sufficient money is deposited in each fund of the backup fund, most of my discretionary income is given priority for investment and the rest is left with cash flow. Selecting investment funds from the total income is a complex task and the process is prone to errors.

[JayJuanGee]

Reaching your accumulation target to me is not an enough reason to sell your bitcoin. In as much as you may not hold your bitcoin time eternity but it's not wise to sell just because you've reached your target and you now are still in active service. Withdrawing at retirement or in an event of extreme emergency situation may be a wiser reason to withdraw your bitcoin.

If you have reached your bitcoin target and you are still very active financially and young in age, you can increase your bitcoin target and start accumulating towards your new target so that you can reach an over accumulation phase in your bitcoin investment. It's a wide decision because no amount of bitcoin can be enough for us if we have the capacity and resources to continue accumulating after we have achieved our bitcoin target. That gives you more room to increase our wealth in bitcoin.

You seem to not understand that when you get to overaccumulation stage you have enough or more than enough.

Sure you can change your goals, but you don't need to, since you should be able to live off of your bitcoin at that level.

I am not sure if more examples can be helpful, but surely if a guy had been accumulating bitcoin modestly for 10 years, he may well would have already gotten to a place of having enough bitcoin or more than enough bitcoin for his income level and maybe even beyond his income level.

Let's say that a guy had a $40k per year income, and he came to bitcoin 9 years ago (in 2016), and so he decided to invest into bitcoin fairly aggressively at 20% of his income, so he was investing $155 per week, which added up to $8k per year... and he was thinking that he would stop investing into bitcoin once he is able to generate an $80k per year income.. which is 2x his current income.  So then at this time, he has invested about $73k into bitcoin and he has accumulated right about 13.3 bitcoin... so that is pretty close to where he wants to be, even though he sees that right now 13.3 BTC would only generate $68k worth of income, yet he needs to have 15.461 BTC to generate $80k per year

Maybe in another scenario he would have had put down $10k or so from his other investments at the time when he first got into bitcoin, so in late $2016 he was able to buy right around 14 additional bitcoin, since in 2016 BTC were right around $700.

So if he now has 27.3 BTC and he had invested right around $83k into bitcoin, he can see that right now 27.3 BTC will support an income of about $140k, yet he only needs an income of $80k, so he really has close to 12 bitcoin more than he needs to have with his income target, but really even his target was high in comparison to his current income, so he likely should have had started to live off of his bitcoin much sooner since he would have had made it to overaccumulation status a couple of years ago... but now he is even more sure that he has enough bitcoin or more than enough bitcoin.

Part of my point is that there are likely times in which guys have accumulated enough or more than enough bitcoin, so they don't really need to accumulate more in order to be able to live at their current standard of living or even way exceeding their current standard of living.  You, Merit.s, seemed to imply that guys always could use more bitcoin, which I really consider to not be true, especially if we try to be realistic about these kinds of situations, and surely bitcoin seems to allow potentials to get to over accumulation status and to be able to stay there as long as we are not screwing up our calculations and verifying our calculations with real world data.

Reaching your accumulation target to me is not an enough reason to sell your bitcoin. In as much as you may not hold your bitcoin time eternity but it's not wise to sell just because you've reached your target and you now are still in active service. Withdrawing at retirement or in an event of extreme emergency situation may be a wiser reason to withdraw your bitcoin.

If you have reached your bitcoin target and you are still very active financially and young in age, you can increase your bitcoin target and start accumulating towards your new target so that you can reach an over accumulation phase in your bitcoin investment. It's a wide decision because no amount of bitcoin can be enough for us if we have the capacity and resources to continue accumulating after we have achieved our bitcoin target. That gives you more room to increase our wealth in bitcoin.

I think reaching over accumulation target should be the aim of every investor since hitting that target simply mean you followed the right steps, held your Bitcoin as you should and also deployed the concept of emergency funds which served to protect your investment.

I have an age-based Bitcoin accumulation target which requires that at certain age I should have gotten certain quantity of Bitcoin. It will of great joy to me to hit that Bitcoin target at less than that age so I can use the remaining years to consolidate on my Bitcoin stash. I would want to experience that fulfilling joy of beating a target that I set for years.

That is true also.   Guys might have some kind of a timeline in mind and they are hoping to be at a certain level by the time they reach certain dates, and it is surely better to exceed the target or to reach the target earlier rather than having the opposite happen in which the guy does not meet his target and he figures out that he was way off in his calculations.  We don't know the future, yet we can still be our own worse enemies if we are not being realistic in our targets and we are calculating with the wrong variables...or with the wrong assumptions.. and surely I think that it better to valuate  your bitcoin based on bottom prices (such as the 200-WMA) rather than spot prices that might go all over the place, even though if we are buying and selling bitcoin we are doing it at spot price and not at the 200-WMA prices.

. It is not bad to sell your Bitcoin because you own it, but if you are patient, you will earn more because as long as we are alive, we all have a bright future.

Selling your Bitcoin and taking profit from it is never a bad idea, it's like you rewarding yourself for consistency and discipline, but where the challenge are is selling everything off entirely. It's really wrong to be selling your Bitcoin when you have not gotten to the end of your accumulation journey, if you have gotten there and you feels like you want to reward yourself by selling some part of your Bitcoin, it's cool, but selling everything off and become a no coiner overnight is what is terribly bàd, you might argue that it's your asset, that you can do what ever you pleases but that's not a wise decision at all to sell off everything and become a no coiner all of a sudden.

So taking profit gradually from your Bitcoin holdings when you have gotten to the end of your accumulation and investment journey is the ideal way to go about it, not selling everything off entirely.

It is not a nice idea for someone who is a low coiner that is supposed to focus on building a better portfolio in bitcoin to start selling of there bitcoin, they are still in accumulation phase there main focus should be on continuous accumulation and not selling to be taken profit . This is purely trading and such individual  will barely hold a good portfolio in bitcoin. Before an investor should start talking of taking profit from there investment, they should have accumulated a good amount of bitcoin in there portfolio and hold for like 5-10yrs. So taking profit from our investment while we are supposed to be accumulating continuously, persistently and aggressively. To me is not investment but rather gambling with bitcoin.

For sure there is a need to have the right mindset in terms of ongoingly accumulating bitcoin for 1-2 cycles or more, before it might start to make sense to be able to sell. and surely a lot  of guys make the mistake of selling too many bitcoin too soon because they think that they are going to be able to buy back cheaper when they would have had been better off to stay focused on ongoingly buying bitcoin... but hey, guys are going to do what they will and they will have to live with the consequences of the way they treated their bitcoin holdings and their bitcoin accumulation strategies. 

Selling your Bitcoin and taking profit from it is never a bad idea, it's like you rewarding yourself for consistency and discipline, but where the challenge are is selling everything off entirely. It's really wrong to be selling your Bitcoin when you have not gotten to the end of your accumulation journey, if you have gotten there and you feels like you want to reward yourself by selling some part of your Bitcoin, it's cool, but selling everything off and become a no coiner overnight is what is terribly bàd, you might argue that it's your asset, that you can do what ever you pleases but that's not a wise decision at all to sell off everything and become a no coiner all of a sudden.

So taking profit gradually from your Bitcoin holdings when you have gotten to the end of your accumulation and investment journey is the ideal way to go about it, not selling everything off entirely.

It is not a nice idea for someone who is a low coiner that is supposed to focus on building a better portfolio in bitcoin to start selling of there bitcoin, they are still in accumulation phase there main focus should be on continuous accumulation and not selling to be taken profit . This is purely trading and such individual  will barely hold a good portfolio in bitcoin. Before an investor should start talking of taking profit from there investment, they should have accumulated a good amount of bitcoin in there portfolio and hold for like 5-10yrs. So taking profit from our investment while we are supposed to be accumulating continuously, persistently and aggressively. To me is not investment but rather gambling with bitcoin.

It's actually a bad harbit from most of you guys to highlight only few words from someone without looking at what the person is saying entirely, or are you trying to say that you didn't  read the other part of my statement?
 
I said that selling and taking profit from your Bitcoin investment is never a bad idea if you have gotten to the ending of your Bitcoin accumulation and investment journey, where the problem are is selling everything off and become a no coiner all of a sudden, try to understand before responding, that's how we learn, don't just responding without understanding what the other person is saying.

If you state a confusing sentence then other guys should not be blamed for focusing on that statement.

Just think about it.

You are not really saying "it is never a bad idea to take profits," since you are saying that it is not a good idea to take profits before you have reached overaccumulation.

Whatever you are saying, you said it in a confusing way... so guys are going to respond to it.

We know that many guys get caught up on profits, and they screw up their whole bitcoin investment because they are overly focused upon locking in profits, and many times they might have been able to compound their profits but instead they end up taking mediocre profits..

Think about the guys taking profits in 2016 and early 2017 between $500 and $1,500 

or think about the guys taking profits between $2k and $3,500 in mid 2017.

or think about the guys taking profits between $9k and $17k in late 2020.

or think about the guys taking profits between $25k and $35k in mid-to-late 2023.

or think about the guys taking profits between $55k and $65k in September/October 2024

And likely you will also be thinking about the guys taking profits between $90k and $110k in late 2024 and even at various points in 2025.

Of course, we don't know the results of this last piece yet.. but some of those guys are likely already regretting their having had taken profits between $90k and $110k... but we don't know yet.. since it is still possible that BTC prices dip back down into the $90ks.. yet newer guys in their first cycle or two of BTC accumulation should probably be focusing on accumulating bitcoin through persistent and ongoing buying rather than fucking around trying to figure out if there might be a dip or not.

[edited out]

I respectfully disagree with you, trading and investing aren’t mutually exclusive. To my best of knowledge, many people successfully combine both trading and investing, by sharing out separate capital and strategies for each, they by maintaining discipline in order to avoid merging the two.

Hopefully you don't end up fucking that up, since it is not easy to perform better in bitcoin by trading it rather than investing in it.

Think about the matter.

You have one of the best, if not the best, asset available to man, and you are going to fuck around trying to trade it?

Sounds pretty short-sighted and perhaps even retarded.

In as much as we aren’t talking about trading in this thread, Discipline traders can still stick to long term investment without issues.

Most of them can't.  Most traders (perhaps more than 95% of them) take too many risks and they end up doing way worse than if they had just focused on investing.  Yeah, they talk a BIG game, but that still does not mean that they did better than the investor, especially if we are talking 2 cycles or more..  The longer the timeline, the more likely that the investor outperformed the trader and he did not have to risk as much nor spend as much time on gambling kinds of activities.

Sure some guys might be interested in learning trading and I would suggest not to put any more than 10% the size of their bitcoin investment  into trading, and sure maybe they will see that they are good at it, yet one of the problems with trading  (gambling) is that they might have 9 out of 10 winners, and then one loser could wipe out all of their gains.. so they are  not doing any better by trading than if they had invested.. and they end up doing worse because they don't have as much BTC as they could have had or should have had if they had stayed focused on investing.

Sorry, his last statement doesn’t look misleading because he specified that he was clearly talking about bitcoin. And I think you are the one who’s wrong here, when you say bitcoin isn’t cryptocurrency. Bitcoin is a type of cryptocurrency and its potential doesn’t negate us classifying it as cryptocurrency.

You are the one who sounds lost Regardme.  There is no reason to use vague misleading and/or ambiguous language when we are talking about bitcoin we should try to be clear and sure there are sometimes when using the word crypto currency is not misleading or ambiguous.

It’s the first prominent one with a unique attribute but still operates within the crypto ecosystem. So the only thing here is to specify when you’re talking about Bitcoin so it will be clear to everyone, if you just say cryptocurrency without specifying “Bitcoin” that’s where it becomes misleading.

If you are trying to make sure that you are not misleading people or using ambiguous terms then there is nothing wrong with using the term cryptocurrency or even talking about shitcoins if you are considering that shitcoins are relevant to whatever it is that you are trying to say.

Arguing that it is acceptable to use the term crypto currency and to act as if it is a clear term, then then that is surely a problematic way of communicating about bitcoin and/or if you are not being clear about how your use of the term cryptocurrrency relates to what you are wanting to say.

[BlackBoss_]

You seem to not understand that when you get to overaccumulation stage you have enough or more than enough.

Sure you can change your goals, but you don't need to, since you should be able to live off of your bitcoin at that level.

I am not sure if more examples can be helpful, but surely if a guy had been accumulating bitcoin modestly for 10 years, he may well would have already gotten to a place of having enough bitcoin or more than enough bitcoin for his income level and maybe even beyond his income level.

This is true and it explains why challenge of getting richer is more easily for the rich than the poor.

The rich are people who are already rich and they even don't need more money to use so with already existing comfortable well-being, they have many options to choose for investment and they have no pressure of mandatory bills to spend with new income, getting richer and so on. They only need to choose a good investment asset while in reality the rich would often prefer to diversify their investments into different assets. This approach of investment diversification also helps them to have less stress on one investment asset and its price volatility.

It is same with Bitcoin investors who can start as the rich, the poor but over time their Bitcoin portfolio will become bigger in both bitcoins and value so that they will gradually reach to enough or abundant accumulation. There will be time they have to think of withdrawal gradually and we know in investment, there is necessary risk management and gradual withdrawal profit in order to retrieve your initial investment capital is a wise and safe risk management.

[Princess Leah]

If you state a confusing sentence then other guys should not be blamed for focusing on that statement.

Just think about it.

You are not really saying "it is never a bad idea to take profits," since you are saying that it is not a good idea to take profits before you have reached overaccumulation.

Whatever you are saying, you said it in a confusing way... so guys are going to respond to it.

Well said Jay, no one is above mistake, even I too do make mistakes and take corrections whenever I'm being corrected, sometimes one can mean a good thing but state it in a wrong way and it would definitely attract corrections from several people here who know the right thing, even though they're aware it was an error they'll still point out your mistake cause it's misleading, at that point the best thing to do is admit your mistake and learn instead of trying to prove a point without clear facts.

We know that many guys get caught up on profits, and they screw up their whole bitcoin investment because they are overly focused upon locking in profits, and many times they might have been able to compound their profits but instead they end up taking mediocre profits..

Think about the guys taking profits in 2016 and early 2017 between $500 and $1,500 

or think about the guys taking profits between $2k and $3,500 in mid 2017.

or think about the guys taking profits between $9k and $17k in late 2020.

or think about the guys taking profits between $25k and $35k in mid-to-late 2023.

or think about the guys taking profits between $55k and $65k in September/October 2024

And likely you will also be thinking about the guys taking profits between $90k and $110k in late 2024 and even at various points in 2025.

Of course, we don't know the results of this last piece yet.. but some of those guys are likely already regretting their having had taken profits between $90k and $110k... but we don't know yet.. since it is still possible that BTC prices dip back down into the $90ks.. yet newer guys in their first cycle or two of BTC accumulation should probably be focusing on accumulating bitcoin through persistent and ongoing buying rather than fucking around trying to figure out if there might be a dip or not.

Also, when stating some thing people need to be specific, it's not like taking profits is very bad but the time at which it's done really matters, you don't just take profits cause you've made little gains or maybe you started investing at a point close to a massive bull run like during the halving season and made lots of profits whereas you've not even invested for long period, it would always come with regret as you said Jay and people should note that the time at which profit is taken really matter and the amount we pull out of our portfolio matters too, investors should know when to pull out and right portions too and if an investor is still early in their journey then nothing concerns the person with taking profits regardless of whether they've made gain or so.

[Solokan]

Bitcoin is not for traders. Bitcoin is an investment tool for the security of one's life in the future. And no matter how much knowledge one acquires or increases one's skills, real success cannot be achieved through trading. And traders normally invest a lot of money to make quick profits in a short time. That is why they often lose. For example, a person makes a lot of calculations and thinks that within the next 1 month the price of Bitcoin will increase by more than 25% compared to the current one and for this reason  He is investing all the money he has, and borrowing as much as he can to invest the entire amount in Bitcoin to make more profits in a short time. But it turns out that at that time the price of Bitcoin has decreased a lot. Meanwhile, he needs money for some urgent need. In this situation, he has no money and hi is forced to sell Bitcoin at a much lower price than before. As a result, he faces a loss. In fact, no one can say exactly how much the price of Bitcoin will decrease or increase after 2 months or 6 months. But depending on the popularity and demand of Bitcoin at the present time, it can be assumed that its value will be much higher in the future after 5 to 10 years than it is now. Therefore, it is advisable to follow DCA and invest for a long time with discretionary income.

In my opinion, Bitcoin is for everyone who is interested in owning it, whether they want to sell it or not. However, without BTC trading, it would certainly be difficult for us to obtain Bitcoin because we buy BTC from BTC traders, except for those who mine BTC, who will receive BTC. And of course, I think what causes people to lose from BTC trading is that they are impatient to hold their BTC and sell their BTC even when they are at a loss. If they could hold their BTC, they would surely make a profit in the end.

However, long-term investment is certainly a smart choice because holding BTC for the long term will certainly yield significant profits. There are certainly many examples of people who have successfully held their BTC for more than 10 years and ultimately achieved significant profits. So, in my opinion, people who trade BTC are not wrong, and those who invest in BTC for the long term are not wrong. What is wrong are those who lose from investing in BTC and lose from trading BTC because they cannot hold their BTC.

However, if someone trades BTC using borrowed money, it's certainly a big mistake, as losses are inevitable. So, ultimately, it's a lack of knowledge that leads to losses. However, if invest and trade using money can afford to lose or discretionary income, ll certainly make a profit as long as manage it well.

[Gost ms]

If you state a confusing sentence then other guys should not be blamed for focusing on that statement.

Just think about it.

You are not really saying "it is never a bad idea to take profits," since you are saying that it is not a good idea to take profits before you have reached overaccumulation.

Whatever you are saying, you said it in a confusing way... so guys are going to respond to it.

Well said Jay, no one is above mistake, even I too do make mistakes and take corrections whenever I'm being corrected, sometimes one can mean a good thing but state it in a wrong way and it would definitely attract corrections from several people here who know the right thing, even though they're aware it was an error they'll still point out your mistake cause it's misleading, at that point the best thing to do is admit your mistake and learn instead of trying to prove a point without clear facts.

We know that many guys get caught up on profits, and they screw up their whole bitcoin investment because they are overly focused upon locking in profits, and many times they might have been able to compound their profits but instead they end up taking mediocre profits..

Think about the guys taking profits in 2016 and early 2017 between $500 and $1,500 

or think about the guys taking profits between $2k and $3,500 in mid 2017.

or think about the guys taking profits between $9k and $17k in late 2020.

or think about the guys taking profits between $25k and $35k in mid-to-late 2023.

or think about the guys taking profits between $55k and $65k in September/October 2024

And likely you will also be thinking about the guys taking profits between $90k and $110k in late 2024 and even at various points in 2025.

Of course, we don't know the results of this last piece yet.. but some of those guys are likely already regretting their having had taken profits between $90k and $110k... but we don't know yet.. since it is still possible that BTC prices dip back down into the $90ks.. yet newer guys in their first cycle or two of BTC accumulation should probably be focusing on accumulating bitcoin through persistent and ongoing buying rather than fucking around trying to figure out if there might be a dip or not.

Also, when stating some thing people need to be specific, it's not like taking profits is very bad but the time at which it's done really matters, you don't just take profits cause you've made little gains or maybe you started investing at a point close to a massive bull run like during the halving season and made lots of profits whereas you've not even invested for long period, it would always come with regret as you said Jay and people should note that the time at which profit is taken really matter and the amount we pull out of our portfolio matters too, investors should know when to pull out and right portions too and if an investor is still early in their journey then nothing concerns the person with taking profits regardless of whether they've made gain or so.

If our investment doubles before our time limit ends, we can withdraw some money from our investment and enjoy it. But even if our time limit ends, selling our entire holdings would not be the right decision. Because I think the price of Bitcoin is still in its infancy. The price of Bitcoin can increase a lot in the future. So if you sell your entire holdings because your time limit has expired, you may regret it later. So it would be best to withdraw the amount you need and keep the rest of the holdings.

[JayJuanGee]

You seem to not understand that when you get to overaccumulation stage you have enough or more than enough.
Sure you can change your goals, but you don't need to, since you should be able to live off of your bitcoin at that level.

I am not sure if more examples can be helpful, but surely if a guy had been accumulating bitcoin modestly for 10 years, he may well would have already gotten to a place of having enough bitcoin or more than enough bitcoin for his income level and maybe even beyond his income level.

This is true and it explains why challenge of getting richer is more easily for the rich than the poor.

The rich are people who are already rich and they even don't need more money to use so with already existing comfortable well-being, they have many options to choose for investment and they have no pressure of mandatory bills to spend with new income, getting richer and so on. They only need to choose a good investment asset while in reality the rich would often prefer to diversify their investments into different assets. This approach of investment diversification also helps them to have less stress on one investment asset and its price volatility.

It is same with Bitcoin investors who can start as the rich, the poor but over time their Bitcoin portfolio will become bigger in both bitcoins and value so that they will gradually reach to enough or abundant accumulation. There will be time they have to think of withdrawal gradually and we know in investment, there is necessary risk management and gradual withdrawal profit in order to retrieve your initial investment capital is a wise and safe risk management.

Of course a person with more income has more advantages, especially if he figures out to have a lot of discretionary income.

Being rich does not guarantee good cashflow management and/or investing skills and/or good investment choices.

Sometimes rich folks will take for granted and fail/refuse to invest properly and/or to manage their cashflows well, but sure they can be sloppy and still do better than a poor person, yet it is not guaranteed that rich folks will do better than poor people, especially if a poor person is organized, motivated and ready, willing and able to learn.

Poor people do tend to need more organizational skills and even more needs to learn how to improve themselves and their situation by being frugal and conscious of how they might be able to increase their discretionary income by increasing their income and/or cutting their expenses.

Of course, a poor person might not get ahead of a rich person who is motivated and who is similarly disciplined, but he will get ahead of rich people who are not.. .and sometimes rich people overly take their situations for granted so they do not end up doing the right things because they are not motivated.. and they might even think that their privileged situation will last forever. 

I am not against rich people, but sometimes they don't know how to be frugal with their money and or to make wise investment decisions.

I know that it can be quite sad for poor people to be stuck with a lot of inferior wages and inferior work situations, yet in some cases there may be ways to work yourself into better paying positions so that you can work less and get paid more... but yeah, I am not proclaiming that there is not a lot of work involved and sometimes a bit of luck to be able to work your way into higher paying kinds of work, and each person who is in a bad position has to figure out if their might be some ways (besides just bitcoin) to work themselves into better circumstances, and surely bitcoin can be part of the circumstances, but also it can really help to either have skills that are marketable or to build skills that are marketable so that you are able to increase your discretionary income so that you are able to invest into bitcoin so that bitcoin would end up being part of your solution, even though it is not the only part.

We know that many guys get caught up on profits, and they screw up their whole bitcoin investment because they are overly focused upon locking in profits, and many times they might have been able to compound their profits but instead they end up taking mediocre profits..

Think about the guys taking profits in 2016 and early 2017 between $500 and $1,500 
or think about the guys taking profits between $2k and $3,500 in mid 2017.

or think about the guys taking profits between $9k and $17k in late 2020.
or think about the guys taking profits between $25k and $35k in mid-to-late 2023.

or think about the guys taking profits between $55k and $65k in September/October 2024
And likely you will also be thinking about the guys taking profits between $90k and $110k in late 2024 and even at various points in 2025.

Of course, we don't know the results of this last piece yet.. but some of those guys are likely already regretting their having had taken profits between $90k and $110k... but we don't know yet.. since it is still possible that BTC prices dip back down into the $90ks.. yet newer guys in their first cycle or two of BTC accumulation should probably be focusing on accumulating bitcoin through persistent and ongoing buying rather than fucking around trying to figure out if there might be a dip or not.

Also, when stating some thing people need to be specific, it's not like taking profits is very bad but the time at which it's done really matters, you don't just take profits cause you've made little gains or maybe you started investing at a point close to a massive bull run like during the halving season and made lots of profits whereas you've not even invested for long period, it would always come with regret as you said Jay and people should note that the time at which profit is taken really matter and the amount we pull out of our portfolio matters too, investors should know when to pull out and right portions too and if an investor is still early in their journey then nothing concerns the person with taking profits regardless of whether they've made gain or so.

I am not proclaiming that there would have had been a better time to take profits, but instead all of those guys would have had been better off to keep holding and/or accumulating and sure at some point they could make it to over accumulation status so that they can transition into withdrawing from their bitcoin on a regular basis, whether price based withdrawals and/or time based withdrawals, and the calculation will be how much bitcoin that they have and how much income that they need rather than considering the extent to which they are in profits or not.  If a guy has a cycle or two under his belt then he is likely in a better position to transition out of the profit thinking that was interfering with his ability to keep accumulating bitcoin until he has enough and even better until he has more than enough.

[edited out]

If our investment doubles before our time limit ends, we can withdraw some money from our investment and enjoy it. But even if our time limit ends, selling our entire holdings would not be the right decision. Because I think the price of Bitcoin is still in its infancy. The price of Bitcoin can increase a lot in the future. So if you sell your entire holdings because your time limit has expired, you may regret it later. So it would be best to withdraw the amount you need and keep the rest of the holdings.

You need a bit of a better formula than that.

What is your time limit, personally?  What are you aiming for ?  10 years?  or some other number?

Or are you aiming for both a time and an amount, yet maybe one of them is more important than the other, but what are you going to do?

When you start to withdraw, then how are you going to do it?

if you are still accumulating, then you have to focus on accumulating first, and sure maybe you will have some ideas about how you will withdraw, but how are you framing your target?  Sure it might have a time, but it also might have some ideas of an amount too, no? 

[Sim_card]

If our investment doubles before our time limit ends, we can withdraw some money from our investment and enjoy it. But even if our time limit ends, selling our entire holdings would not be the right decision. Because I think the price of Bitcoin is still in its infancy. The price of Bitcoin can increase a lot in the future. So if you sell your entire holdings because your time limit has expired, you may regret it later. So it would be best to withdraw the amount you need and keep the rest of the holdings.

I don't know if this your idea of taking profits before reaching your bitcoin goal because you see that your bitcoin portfolio has doubled. If you take profits, it will affect the growth of your portfolio to a better height compared to when you didn't take profit. Imagine that profits that you took will depreciates your portfolio and the profits should have generated more profits overtime.

If you start taking profits because your bitcoin portfolio has doubled from the initial amount that you put in, it can be tempting and before you know it, you might take profits again the second time killing your long-term  accumulation goal and will delay you from reaching your bitcoin target. Let's not be profit cautious but focus on reaching our bitcoin goal since the profit is still there.

[Umulala-alala]

Selling your Bitcoin and taking profit from it is never a bad idea, it's like you rewarding yourself for consistency and discipline, but where the challenge are is selling everything off entirely. It's really wrong to be selling your Bitcoin when you have not gotten to the end of your accumulation journey, if you have gotten there and you feels like you want to reward yourself by selling some part of your Bitcoin, it's cool, but selling everything off and become a no coiner overnight is what is terribly bàd, you might argue that it's your asset, that you can do what ever you pleases but that's not a wise decision at all to sell off everything and become a no coiner all of a sudden.

So taking profit gradually from your Bitcoin holdings when you have gotten to the end of your accumulation and investment journey is the ideal way to go about it, not selling everything off entirely.

It is not a nice idea for someone who is a low coiner that is supposed to focus on building a better portfolio in bitcoin to start selling of there bitcoin, they are still in accumulation phase there main focus should be on continuous accumulation and not selling to be taken profit . This is purely trading and such individual  will barely hold a good portfolio in bitcoin. Before an investor should start talking of taking profit from there investment, they should have accumulated a good amount of bitcoin in there portfolio and hold for like 5-10yrs. So taking profit from our investment while we are supposed to be accumulating continuously, persistently and aggressively. To me is not investment but rather gambling with bitcoin.

It's actually a bad harbit from most of you guys to highlight only few words from someone without looking at what the person is saying entirely, or are you trying to say that you didn't  read the other part of my statement?
 
I said that selling and taking profit from your Bitcoin investment is never a bad idea if you have gotten to the ending of your Bitcoin accumulation and investment journey, where the problem are is selling everything off and become a no coiner all of a sudden, try to understand before responding, that's how we learn, don't just responding without understanding what the other person is saying.

The bolded word which proty highlighted is a wrong massage where by someone who has not gotten to his over accumulation stage shouldn't think of selling his bitcoin rather their main focus should be on how they can be buying more bitcoin you might right in the other statement the bolded word may send a negative massage expecially for one who just started buying bitcoin to think of selling when there is a bit uptrend in the market it's just like some one putting on white cloth and a little drop of red oil split on it it has totally condemn the cloth and you will need to change it put on another cloth so it's a better to use an understanding words so you don't other confused and mislead into selling premature.

[Iamgoat]

If our investment doubles before our time limit ends, we can withdraw some money from our investment and enjoy it. But even if our time limit ends, selling our entire holdings would not be the right decision. Because I think the price of Bitcoin is still in its infancy. The price of Bitcoin can increase a lot in the future. So if you sell your entire holdings because your time limit has expired, you may regret it later. So it would be best to withdraw the amount you need and keep the rest of the holdings.

I don't know if this your idea of taking profits before reaching your bitcoin goal because you see that your bitcoin portfolio has doubled. If you take profits, it will affect the growth of your portfolio to a better height compared to when you didn't take profit. Imagine that profits that you took will depreciates your portfolio and the profits should have generated more profits overtime.

If you start taking profits because your bitcoin portfolio has doubled from the initial amount that you put in, it can be tempting and before you know it, you might take profits again the second time killing your long-term  accumulation goal and will delay you from reaching your bitcoin target. Let's not be profit cautious but focus on reaching our bitcoin goal since the profit is still there.

Once we start withdrawing early, it will automatically reduce our chances of reaching our set target and goals and also slowdown the growth of our portfolio. Early withdrawals.is like a time.ticking bomb to our bitcoin longterm goals. I believe what is best for everyone of us is to focus on our end goal, which should be more important than taking early and quick profits simply because we got our portfolio doubled in a short period of time expected does not mean we should start withdrawimg from our profits already.

I see a great potential in HODLing my bitcoin for a long period of time regardless of how good or bad the investments perform, because of the nature of bitcoin which can make you as many money as possible once it rises in its value. I am not equally against those who take small money from their profits, but let the reason be utterly justified. i.e based on life threatening needs etc. The reason why we should avoid touching our profits regardless of how good our investments are performing is it will end up becoming an attitude used to it and liquidating your portfolio without achieving your aims.

[Tungbulu]

We know that many guys get caught up on profits, and they screw up their whole bitcoin investment because they are overly focused upon locking in profits, and many times they might have been able to compound their profits but instead they end up taking mediocre profits..

Think about the guys taking profits in 2016 and early 2017 between $500 and $1,500 
or think about the guys taking profits between $2k and $3,500 in mid 2017.

or think about the guys taking profits between $9k and $17k in late 2020.
or think about the guys taking profits between $25k and $35k in mid-to-late 2023.

or think about the guys taking profits between $55k and $65k in September/October 2024
And likely you will also be thinking about the guys taking profits between $90k and $110k in late 2024 and even at various points in 2025.

Of course, we don't know the results of this last piece yet.. but some of those guys are likely already regretting their having had taken profits between $90k and $110k... but we don't know yet.. since it is still possible that BTC prices dip back down into the $90ks.. yet newer guys in their first cycle or two of BTC accumulation should probably be focusing on accumulating bitcoin through persistent and ongoing buying rather than fucking around trying to figure out if there might be a dip or not.

Also, when stating some thing people need to be specific, it's not like taking profits is very bad but the time at which it's done really matters, you don't just take profits cause you've made little gains or maybe you started investing at a point close to a massive bull run like during the halving season and made lots of profits whereas you've not even invested for long period, it would always come with regret as you said Jay and people should note that the time at which profit is taken really matter and the amount we pull out of our portfolio matters too, investors should know when to pull out and right portions too and if an investor is still early in their journey then nothing concerns the person with taking profits regardless of whether they've made gain or so.

I am not proclaiming that there would have had been a better time to take profits, but instead all of those guys would have had been better off to keep holding and/or accumulating and sure at some point they could make it to over accumulation status so that they can transition into withdrawing from their bitcoin on a regular basis, whether price based withdrawals and/or time based withdrawals, and the calculation will be how much bitcoin that they have and how much income that they need rather than considering the extent to which they are in profits or not.  If a guy has a cycle or two under his belt then he is likely in a better position to transition out of the profit thinking that was interfering with his ability to keep accumulating bitcoin until he has enough and even better until he has more than enough.

In order to attain success in Bitcoin investing, one must have to adopt a mindset that prioritizes accumulation and long term growth rather than shirt term profit taking as this is the key to reaching over accumulation status. When investors direct their focus on building a substantial Bitcoin portfolio, they'll be able to attain a level where they'll be able to sustain themselves through regular withdrawals, whether it's time based or price based. At this point, withdrawing from their Bitcoin stash would no longer affect the investments/portfolio as they have already gotten to a state of overaccumulation and are no longer focusing on accumulating but managing and preserving their portfolio.

It becomes easier for investors to shift their focus from profit driven decision making to a more sustainable approach once they've experience one or two cycles because at this point, they're believed to be better equipped to make more informed decisions. By sticking to this mindset, they put themselves in a much better position to continue accumulating Bitcoin until they've reached a state that their Bitcoin portfolio is sufficient enough to take care of their needs and/or even exceed their requirements.
At this particular point, they'll have a more straightforward calculation, which is, how much BTC would they need to accumulate that'll be able to generate them a particular income stream? And by diverting their attention and decision making from profit making and loss consideration, investors put themselves in a much better position to adopt a more objective approach towards effectively managing their Bitcoin portfolio.

[Miramax12]

Reaching your accumulation target to me is not an enough reason to sell your bitcoin. In as much as you may not hold your bitcoin time eternity but it's not wise to sell just because you've reached your target and you now are still in active service. Withdrawing at retirement or in an event of extreme emergency situation may be a wiser reason to withdraw your bitcoin.

If you have reached your bitcoin target and you are still very active financially and young in age, you can increase your bitcoin target and start accumulating towards your new target so that you can reach an over accumulation phase in your bitcoin investment. It's a wide decision because no amount of bitcoin can be enough for us if we have the capacity and resources to continue accumulating after we have achieved our bitcoin target. That gives you more room to increase our wealth in bitcoin.

You seem to not understand that when you get to overaccumulation stage you have enough or more than enough.

Sure you can change your goals, but you don't need to, since you should be able to live off of your bitcoin at that level.

I am not sure if more examples can be helpful, but surely if a guy had been accumulating bitcoin modestly for 10 years, he may well would have already gotten to a place of having enough bitcoin or more than enough bitcoin for his income level and maybe even beyond his income level.

Let's say that a guy had a $40k per year income, and he came to bitcoin 9 years ago (in 2016), and so he decided to invest into bitcoin fairly aggressively at 20% of his income, so he was investing $155 per week, which added up to $8k per year... and he was thinking that he would stop investing into bitcoin once he is able to generate an $80k per year income.. which is 2x his current income.  So then at this time, he has invested about $73k into bitcoin and he has accumulated right about 13.3 bitcoin... so that is pretty close to where he wants to be, even though he sees that right now 13.3 BTC would only generate $68k worth of income, yet he needs to have 15.461 BTC to generate $80k per year

Maybe in another scenario he would have had put down $10k or so from his other investments at the time when he first got into bitcoin, so in late $2016 he was able to buy right around 14 additional bitcoin, since in 2016 BTC were right around $700.

So if he now has 27.3 BTC and he had invested right around $83k into bitcoin, he can see that right now 27.3 BTC will support an income of about $140k, yet he only needs an income of $80k, so he really has close to 12 bitcoin more than he needs to have with his income target, but really even his target was high in comparison to his current income, so he likely should have had started to live off of his bitcoin much sooner since he would have had made it to overaccumulation status a couple of years ago... but now he is even more sure that he has enough bitcoin or more than enough bitcoin.

Part of my point is that there are likely times in which guys have accumulated enough or more than enough bitcoin, so they don't really need to accumulate more in order to be able to live at their current standard of living or even way exceeding their current standard of living.  You, Merit.s, seemed to imply that guys always could use more bitcoin, which I really consider to not be true, especially if we try to be realistic about these kinds of situations, and surely bitcoin seems to allow potentials to get to over accumulation status and to be able to stay there as long as we are not screwing up our calculations and verifying our calculations with real world data.

Reaching your accumulation target to me is not an enough reason to sell your bitcoin. In as much as you may not hold your bitcoin time eternity but it's not wise to sell just because you've reached your target and you now are still in active service. Withdrawing at retirement or in an event of extreme emergency situation may be a wiser reason to withdraw your bitcoin.

If you have reached your bitcoin target and you are still very active financially and young in age, you can increase your bitcoin target and start accumulating towards your new target so that you can reach an over accumulation phase in your bitcoin investment. It's a wide decision because no amount of bitcoin can be enough for us if we have the capacity and resources to continue accumulating after we have achieved our bitcoin target. That gives you more room to increase our wealth in bitcoin.

I think reaching over accumulation target should be the aim of every investor since hitting that target simply mean you followed the right steps, held your Bitcoin as you should and also deployed the concept of emergency funds which served to protect your investment.

I have an age-based Bitcoin accumulation target which requires that at certain age I should have gotten certain quantity of Bitcoin. It will of great joy to me to hit that Bitcoin target at less than that age so I can use the remaining years to consolidate on my Bitcoin stash. I would want to experience that fulfilling joy of beating a target that I set for years.

That is true also.   Guys might have some kind of a timeline in mind and they are hoping to be at a certain level by the time they reach certain dates, and it is surely better to exceed the target or to reach the target earlier rather than having the opposite happen in which the guy does not meet his target and he figures out that he was way off in his calculations.  We don't know the future, yet we can still be our own worse enemies if we are not being realistic in our targets and we are calculating with the wrong variables...or with the wrong assumptions.. and surely I think that it better to valuate  your bitcoin based on bottom prices (such as the 200-WMA) rather than spot prices that might go all over the place, even though if we are buying and selling bitcoin we are doing it at spot price and not at the 200-WMA prices.

. It is not bad to sell your Bitcoin because you own it, but if you are patient, you will earn more because as long as we are alive, we all have a bright future.

Selling your Bitcoin and taking profit from it is never a bad idea, it's like you rewarding yourself for consistency and discipline, but where the challenge are is selling everything off entirely. It's really wrong to be selling your Bitcoin when you have not gotten to the end of your accumulation journey, if you have gotten there and you feels like you want to reward yourself by selling some part of your Bitcoin, it's cool, but selling everything off and become a no coiner overnight is what is terribly bàd, you might argue that it's your asset, that you can do what ever you pleases but that's not a wise decision at all to sell off everything and become a no coiner all of a sudden.

So taking profit gradually from your Bitcoin holdings when you have gotten to the end of your accumulation and investment journey is the ideal way to go about it, not selling everything off entirely.

It is not a nice idea for someone who is a low coiner that is supposed to focus on building a better portfolio in bitcoin to start selling of there bitcoin, they are still in accumulation phase there main focus should be on continuous accumulation and not selling to be taken profit . This is purely trading and such individual  will barely hold a good portfolio in bitcoin. Before an investor should start talking of taking profit from there investment, they should have accumulated a good amount of bitcoin in there portfolio and hold for like 5-10yrs. So taking profit from our investment while we are supposed to be accumulating continuously, persistently and aggressively. To me is not investment but rather gambling with bitcoin.

For sure there is a need to have the right mindset in terms of ongoingly accumulating bitcoin for 1-2 cycles or more, before it might start to make sense to be able to sell. and surely a lot  of guys make the mistake of selling too many bitcoin too soon because they think that they are going to be able to buy back cheaper when they would have had been better off to stay focused on ongoingly buying bitcoin... but hey, guys are going to do what they will and they will have to live with the consequences of the way they treated their bitcoin holdings and their bitcoin accumulation strategies. 

Selling your Bitcoin and taking profit from it is never a bad idea, it's like you rewarding yourself for consistency and discipline, but where the challenge are is selling everything off entirely. It's really wrong to be selling your Bitcoin when you have not gotten to the end of your accumulation journey, if you have gotten there and you feels like you want to reward yourself by selling some part of your Bitcoin, it's cool, but selling everything off and become a no coiner overnight is what is terribly bàd, you might argue that it's your asset, that you can do what ever you pleases but that's not a wise decision at all to sell off everything and become a no coiner all of a sudden.

So taking profit gradually from your Bitcoin holdings when you have gotten to the end of your accumulation and investment journey is the ideal way to go about it, not selling everything off entirely.

It is not a nice idea for someone who is a low coiner that is supposed to focus on building a better portfolio in bitcoin to start selling of there bitcoin, they are still in accumulation phase there main focus should be on continuous accumulation and not selling to be taken profit . This is purely trading and such individual  will barely hold a good portfolio in bitcoin. Before an investor should start talking of taking profit from there investment, they should have accumulated a good amount of bitcoin in there portfolio and hold for like 5-10yrs. So taking profit from our investment while we are supposed to be accumulating continuously, persistently and aggressively. To me is not investment but rather gambling with bitcoin.

It's actually a bad harbit from most of you guys to highlight only few words from someone without looking at what the person is saying entirely, or are you trying to say that you didn't  read the other part of my statement?
 
I said that selling and taking profit from your Bitcoin investment is never a bad idea if you have gotten to the ending of your Bitcoin accumulation and investment journey, where the problem are is selling everything off and become a no coiner all of a sudden, try to understand before responding, that's how we learn, don't just responding without understanding what the other person is saying.

If you state a confusing sentence then other guys should not be blamed for focusing on that statement.

Just think about it.

You are not really saying "it is never a bad idea to take profits," since you are saying that it is not a good idea to take profits before you have reached overaccumulation.

Whatever you are saying, you said it in a confusing way... so guys are going to respond to it.

We know that many guys get caught up on profits, and they screw up their whole bitcoin investment because they are overly focused upon locking in profits, and many times they might have been able to compound their profits but instead they end up taking mediocre profits..

Think about the guys taking profits in 2016 and early 2017 between $500 and $1,500 

or think about the guys taking profits between $2k and $3,500 in mid 2017.

or think about the guys taking profits between $9k and $17k in late 2020.

or think about the guys taking profits between $25k and $35k in mid-to-late 2023.

or think about the guys taking profits between $55k and $65k in September/October 2024

And likely you will also be thinking about the guys taking profits between $90k and $110k in late 2024 and even at various points in 2025.

Of course, we don't know the results of this last piece yet.. but some of those guys are likely already regretting their having had taken profits between $90k and $110k... but we don't know yet.. since it is still possible that BTC prices dip back down into the $90ks.. yet newer guys in their first cycle or two of BTC accumulation should probably be focusing on accumulating bitcoin through persistent and ongoing buying rather than fucking around trying to figure out if there might be a dip or not.

[edited out]

I respectfully disagree with you, trading and investing aren’t mutually exclusive. To my best of knowledge, many people successfully combine both trading and investing, by sharing out separate capital and strategies for each, they by maintaining discipline in order to avoid merging the two.

Hopefully you don't end up fucking that up, since it is not easy to perform better in bitcoin by trading it rather than investing in it.

Think about the matter.

You have one of the best, if not the best, asset available to man, and you are going to fuck around trying to trade it?

Sounds pretty short-sighted and perhaps even retarded.

In as much as we aren’t talking about trading in this thread, Discipline traders can still stick to long term investment without issues.

Most of them can't.  Most traders (perhaps more than 95% of them) take too many risks and they end up doing way worse than if they had just focused on investing.  Yeah, they talk a BIG game, but that still does not mean that they did better than the investor, especially if we are talking 2 cycles or more..  The longer the timeline, the more likely that the investor outperformed the trader and he did not have to risk as much nor spend as much time on gambling kinds of activities.

Sure some guys might be interested in learning trading and I would suggest not to put any more than 10% the size of their bitcoin investment  into trading, and sure maybe they will see that they are good at it, yet one of the problems with trading  (gambling) is that they might have 9 out of 10 winners, and then one loser could wipe out all of their gains.. so they are  not doing any better by trading than if they had invested.. and they end up doing worse because they don't have as much BTC as they could have had or should have had if they had stayed focused on investing.

Sorry, his last statement doesn’t look misleading because he specified that he was clearly talking about bitcoin. And I think you are the one who’s wrong here, when you say bitcoin isn’t cryptocurrency. Bitcoin is a type of cryptocurrency and its potential doesn’t negate us classifying it as cryptocurrency.

You are the one who sounds lost Regardme.  There is no reason to use vague misleading and/or ambiguous language when we are talking about bitcoin we should try to be clear and sure there are sometimes when using the word crypto currency is not misleading or ambiguous.

It’s the first prominent one with a unique attribute but still operates within the crypto ecosystem. So the only thing here is to specify when you’re talking about Bitcoin so it will be clear to everyone, if you just say cryptocurrency without specifying “Bitcoin” that’s where it becomes misleading.

If you are trying to make sure that you are not misleading people or using ambiguous terms then there is nothing wrong with using the term cryptocurrency or even talking about shitcoins if you are considering that shitcoins are relevant to whatever it is that you are trying to say.

Arguing that it is acceptable to use the term crypto currency and to act as if it is a clear term, then then that is surely a problematic way of communicating about bitcoin and/or if you are not being clear about how your use of the term cryptocurrrency relates to what you are wanting to say.

I do agree that there is a point where so many can reasonably say they have hit or surpassed their financial goals with Bitcoin , it is not always about more sometimes it is about recognizing enough and shifting focus to preservation. over accumulation might just feel like the next phase a buffer a hedge or even a stepping stone toward bigger plans. it depends heavily on individual goals , risk tolerance and life stage  in the end i think both views can co exist so many hit their number and stop other raise the bar, what matters is being intentional about it not just stacking for the sake of it

[Yoona_As]

The crazy part if we are buying bitcoin for 4-10 years and even longer, we could end up buying at the top and at the ATH several times and still end up in profits over the long term with each of the purchases and/or with the overall average purchases, and we have no way to know if we are buying at the top, so we should not be thinking about those kinds of matters if we keep on accumulating bitcoin on a regular basis, as you mentioned.

If you are buying for last 10 years then you are not only buying at ATH but also at low price. ATH changes with time, like in 2017 ATH was 20k which today looks like an ordinary price. Today price is at it's peak of 115k and may be after few years from today 115k also looks to us an ordinary price. One advantage of keep buying for 10 years is that we don't need to worry about the bottom. Ten years averages the top, middle and bottom prices to give a good figure.

Changing of all time high shows that the value of Bitcoin is not fixed or constant, it varies with time and season and that is why we should have the long term mindset because there is high possibility of profit in long term investment even though nothing is certain. All time high signify the highest point or price Bitcoin has attain for a given period of time and what happened years back will definitely repeat itself again because the price we are seeing now will be considered as very minimal in years coming because of the extent or height Bitcoin will attain.

When we have different ATH it’s actually telling us that we should keep buying and accumulating bitcoin gradually, for those of us who have already been buying bitcoin in awhile now, well for those of us who are a no coiner and are still interested in buying and accumulating bitcoin it’s better that we should always start investing immediately when we have that discretionary income instead of waiting, because as time goes that is how we’re loosing opportunities because Bitcoin always gives us different ATH because of the volatile nature of the Bitcoin price.

But we should not consider the price of bitcoin when we have a discretionary income to start or continue investing in bitcoin, we can always accumulate using the DCA, it is true that nothing is certain when investing in bitcoin that is why it would be more ideal and sensible to invest immediately and not having the mindset of making profit immediately, and planning on buying and holding bitcoin for a long term plans.

If you want to come forward in Bitcoin investment now, you can do so, because if you just wait, then maybe the price of Bitcoin may increase, in which case you may fall behind and you may lose this current opportunity, which may be a reason for regret for you later. You do not need to pour all your money into investing, you just buy small amounts regularly to survive in the market, in that case you can use the DCA strategy because you can invest in small amounts weekly or monthly, this small step of yours can bring you something big in the future, so in my opinion, regardless of the price of Bitcoin, maintain your position in the market and continue investing for a long time using the DCA strategy.

[Sjkah]

And the crazy part? DCA works even when you don’t time the bottom… Like, you could literally buy while Bitcoin is dropping, and as long as you stay consistent over time, you still be profitable off it…  That’s what people don’t get. You’re playing the long game, and the long game always wins in Bitcoin investment...

Most of the OGs you see sitting on bags of Bitcoin did not trade their way there, they just kept buying regularly, ignored the noise, and waited. Simple as that….

The crazy part if we are buying bitcoin for 4-10 years and even longer, we could end up buying at the top and at the ATH several times and still end up in profits over the long term with each of the purchases and/or with the overall average purchases, and we have no way to know if we are buying at the top, so we should not be thinking about those kinds of matters if we keep on accumulating bitcoin on a regular basis, as you mentioned.

[edited out]

Well, while investing in Bitcoin, it's essential to have a view of your finances. That is to say that is not just about the available funds you have for investment, but your overall income and expenses, as well as any  future inflows of discretionary income. Doing this, can help you create a very thoughtful investment plan that will aligns with your financial goals and your risk management.

When putting extra money, which you are absolutely right that, there other options for one to consider. While some people may choose to buy Bitcoin immediately, while others might put aside a part or portion for buying dips or adding to their regular DCA. Which is to help to make informed decisions based on individuals capacity and their financial goals.

Also, it's true that holding back money to buy dips can put those who have limited discretionary fund or those who are early in their Bitcoin accumulation might find it confusing in making a well informed decisions or plan in their investing. But, in this state, it might be more proper or productive to focus on regular investing and allow the power of compounding work in their favour.

So, the best thing to do, is to have plan or strategy that will work or favour you and your financial situation. For it will help you to be able to achieve your success with Bitcoin.

Part of the problem of poor people waiting or employing waiting strategies rather than ongoingly buying is because it takes a real long time to build any kind of investment stake, and even a person who is able to invest 10% of his income is going to take 10 years to have 1 years worth of income invested into bitcoin.. there are a lot of poor people who may well not even be able to put 5% of their income per year into bitcoin, so it could well take them 20 years or longer to invest up to 1 year's of their income into bitcion.

So part of the point is that they have to get a stake in up before fucking around with waiting strategies or buying on dip or anything other than just employing persistent and regular buying.  So yeah, poor people frequently end up screwing themselves by failing/refusing to stay focused on ongoingly buying of bitcoin, which is likely what they need to start to feel progress that might take them 10 years or more before they will start to feel that they are making some meaningful levels of progress, and I doubt that they are going to help their position by fucking around waiting for dips that may or may not end up happening. 

And yeah, in the end, each of us can do whatever we like, even dumb shit... and waiting, trading, getting involved in shitcoins are all dumb strategies, especially for poor people who should be figuring out how to ongoingly, persistently, consistently, regularly and perhaps even aggressively (within their means) be accumulating bitcoin through buying.

The slow pace of accumulation can actually lead to frustration like waiting for dips which might bring desired results.

Instead, they should focused on regular buying, especially those with limited discretionary fund. That is being consistent helps them to stake over time and it brings progress in their Bitcoin journey and will be able to navigate market fluctuations.

In essence, individuals can make progress towards their financial goals, even with the limited discretionary fund through consistent in accumulation, for this can help them develop a discipline investment habit, for them to be able to accomplish or achieve for long-term success regardless of market conditions and also it's essential to apply patience, persistence and discipline while exhibiting good strategy.

Even a poor person who is ONLY able to invest right around $10 per week will have had invested $520 in a year, and perhaps after 10-15-20 years, such poor person might start to feel quite well off, even if they are not rich, they are likely way better off than they would have had been if they had not invested into bitcoin.. Such person may well invest $5,200 after 10 years and even $10,400 after 20 years, and yeah, it could well be the case, that such poor person is frequently tempted to tap into his bitcoin investment too... especially since it may well start to seem that every bit of his additional investment into bitcoin is not making much difference in regards to the total value of the investment and how the investment might be fluctuating in value from time to time.   

Depending on how long he waits to keep building his investment into bitcoin, based on his income level, he may well start to be able to live off of his bitcoin after 15 years or so.  Perhaps? perhaps?. in other words,  the bitcoin might be able to generate way higher levels of income than he had been putting in, so after 10 years he might start to be able to draw $200 per week from his bitcoin, which is 20x the amount on a weekly basis that he had been putting in on a weekly basis.  So even though the amounts are low, the guy could still end up being protected by his bitcoin investment so long as he had been able to exercise some discipline in building, holding, securing and managing his coins.  It may well be true that generally poor people do not have those kinds of good habits or abilities to learn those kinds of skills, yet there will be some poor people who would be able to both learn the skills and to exercise that level of discipline in regard to building, managing and securing their bitcoin.

If poor people can invest a few dollars a week, they can make a big investment in a year. If poor people invest a little, they will eventually become rich. They can enjoy many things in life. If they invest in Bitcoin along with other income, they will eventually reach a good level. If they invest in Bitcoin, they will see other income levels. However, it becomes difficult for poor people to do all this.

[Gloire]

Hello. Unfortunately, this is a common experience in volatile markets like cryptocurrencies. Rapid fluctuations can make it feel like you're buying at the wrong time or selling too early, but it is often difficult to predict.

[Finebone]

If poor people can invest a few dollars a week, they can make a big investment in a year. If poor people invest a little, they will eventually become rich. They can enjoy many things in life. If they invest in Bitcoin along with other income, they will eventually reach a good level. If they invest in Bitcoin, they will see other income levels. However, it becomes difficult for poor people to do all this.

No, I think that this is misleading, investment in bitcoin in a year especially when you are a low coiner wouldn't do anything significant on your finance just in a year.
For a low coiner or the average income earners that want to be successful in his investment, and be rich as you called it, he need to accumulate Bitcoin gradually and consistently through the dca accumulating strategy weekly or monthly for the minimum of ten solid years, by then he might have accumulated a very good stash of bitcoin that can turn his financial status to the better, but anything short of that is actually not long term, and he cant make anything significant with that especially if he is not consistent.

 So what am trying to say is that the stash of bitcoin you can accumulate is what's going to determine if you are going to be successful/rich or not, you can't just invest only $100 and be expecting to harvest $1M in a year as you think or even 10 year time.

[Joeboy]

However, it becomes difficult for poor people to do all this.

It may be dificult no doubt. But one thing that I have come to understand is that Difficulty doesn’t always mean Impossiblity. The key to Bitcoin accumulation is starting small and staying consistent with it. Even someone who is poor and  earning very little can still set aside $2- $3 a week for Bitcoin accumulation if they can make certain lifestyle adjustments, like cutting down on unnecessary daily expenses.

Bitcoin is divisible into 100 million satoshis, so you don’t necessarily need to buy a whole BTC. Even small and regular buys can add up over time. Lets take a look at this analysis:

• Investing $2 weekly=$2 × 52 weeks of the year that is about $104 worth of Bitcoin in a year.
• or investing $3 weekly = $3× 52 weeks of the year is about $156 worth of Bitcoin in a year.

And if Bitcoin’s value grows during that period, your holdings sef grows too. Many persons who started with tiny amounts years ago now have a decent stack simply because they kept going despite the small size of each purchase. Honestly at the end of it all, your mentality is the what really matters coz if you are really determined to steadily accumulate Bitcoin, even a low income or salary won’t be able to stop you.

[Kelward]

If poor people can invest a few dollars a week, they can make a big investment in a year. If poor people invest a little, they will eventually become rich. They can enjoy many things in life. If they invest in Bitcoin along with other income, they will eventually reach a good level. If they invest in Bitcoin, they will see other income levels. However, it becomes difficult for poor people to do all this.

No, I think that this is misleading, investment in bitcoin in a year especially when you are a low coiner wouldn't do anything significant on your finance just in a year.
For a low coiner or the average income earners that want to be successful in his investment, and be rich as you called it, he need to accumulate Bitcoin gradually and consistently through the dca accumulating strategy weekly or monthly for the minimum of ten solid years, by then he might have accumulated a very good stash of bitcoin that can turn his financial status to the better, but anything short of that is actually not long term, and he cant make anything significant with that especially if he is not consistent.

 So what am trying to say is that the stash of bitcoin you can accumulate is what's going to determine if you are going to be successful/rich or not, you can't just invest only $100 and be expecting to harvest $1M in a year as you think or even 10 year time.

The level of your Bitcoin capital plus returns on investment (ROI) depends on your stash, you can't hodl a few sats and expect to be rich in 1 year or 10 years. Poor people or low income earners that are determined to invest in Bitcoin on the long term should have a strategy to keep them focused and there's none better than DCA method. If they are able to scrap out discretionary funds from their income and allocate some of it to buying Bitcoin then they can buy and continue buying into the future.

Although my best advice for poor people that wants to enter Bitcoin investment for the long term is that they need to understand financial management. If you're poor that your income cannot cover your basic expenses there's no need to force yourself into Bitcoin investment because you'd end up selling prematurely to take care of your basic needs. This will make you to deviate from DCA method because it'll defeat your goal of long term hodl. Make sure you have a functional discretionary funds before getting into DCA method.