Road to 100k?

[pawel7777]

I have come to understand that great wealth comes only when we store value over a period of time and hold it for decades. And that should be the same for Bitcoin, cos it is such an asset with great value.

I agree with the patience part, but there are two sides of the spectrum. On one side you have hot-headed "investors" blowing up wealth by chasing quick profits, on the other side, there are people saving/accumulating wealth for no purpose well into their senile age, just for the enjoyment of watching the number go up. I guess the second group is still better, as there's at least a chance their kids or grandkids will inherit their wealth. That's if they have any offspring at all.

Money should be a means to achieve goals, not a goal in itself.

[JayJuanGee]

Bitcoin investment has different strategy some people choose to use the DCA strategy, lump sum strategy, trading strategy and buy in the dip strategy etc.

I disagree with you that trading is a bitcoin accumulation strategy.

I didn't say different type of accumulation strategy I said different type of Bitcoin investment strategy this two are not the same is two different thing, when we talk about Bitcoin investment trading is a form of Bitcoin investment which is also known as short term Bitcoin investment and stop quoting me wrongly I hate it read my write up very well before you quote me.

Trading is not a form of investing, even if you want to convolute terms and call trading investing.  You are wrong and you are likely misleading people, including yourself (to the extent that you are not trying to cause such confusion and convolution of terms on purpose?).

short-term bitcoin investment = trading too... why should we quibble when there are more clear ways of explaining the matter?

It is true that a trader might build up an amount of working capital that he considers to be an investment and his trading capital might grow larger and larger with the passage of time, yet there are no reasons to get into the weeds of those kinds of specialized kinds of cases.

It is much more clear to attempt to think about investing in terms of building up a position in an asset like bitcoin.  So when you build up there are three forms of accumulation which is DCA, lump sum and buy on dip.  If you sell in order to buy back cheaper as an accumulation strategy that is trading and it may or may not work out for you, so you are kind of gambling, which is part of the reason that trading does not fit as an investing strategy... unless you are trying to confuse people with overlapping terms.

If you want to accumulate more bitcoin, how does it make sense to sell bitcoin to accumulate more bitcoin. Surely some traders also will get confused because they are not trying to accumulate more bitcoin but they are trying to accumulate more dollars, so it can be a bit confusing if we cannot at least agree that if you invest into an asset you are trying to accumulate that asset, and in this case we are talking about accumulating bitcoin not accumulating dollars, even though in the long run we have a bit of an anticipation (that is not guaranteed) that our bitcoin are going to be worth more dollars in the future as compared with what they are worth today.

I disagree with you that trading is a bitcoin accumulation strategy.

I didn't say different type of accumulation strategy I said different type of Bitcoin investment strategy this two are not the same is two different thing, when we talk about Bitcoin investment trading is a form of Bitcoin investment which is also known as short term Bitcoin investment and stop quoting me wrongly I hate it read my write up very well before you quote me.

Misunderstanding the meaning of what you convey is very natural because all of us here do not have to fight about good or bad strategies because everyone will definitely use a strategy that is comfortable and not bad for themselves. I can understand what you are saying, but you also should not be emotional when someone else comments on what you say even though they may not understand what you are saying. But I personally will only distinguish between people who like to trade (although some people have called it short-term investment) and people who like to invest in Bitcoin because something like that will also make it easier for me to distinguish two different things with almost the same goal, namely seeking more profit.

When you are describing seeking more profits, you are likely referring to dollar profits and surely those are trading ideas.. since investing is building the asset (namely bitcoin), and yeah further down the road bitcoin is likely to be worth more in terms of dollars and to give more options to people, but the focus on accumulating the bitcoin rather than dollars likely helps to frame how to consider the difference between investing and trading... including that there are people who call their less then 4 year time line an investment, but they are largely trying to play the wave which is also a kind of trade, even if they might call it a short-term investment, they are likely misleading themselves and misleading others by convoluting terms in such way that makes it more difficult to figure out what they mean or to distinguish between the difference between investing and trading.

You can call it what you want, but when we are in threads like this, we may well just end up battling over semantics rather than really getting into the meaty details which may concern if a person is in their accumulation stage and trying to build more bitcoin, then if they start to sell  bitcoin in order to accumulate more, even if they are trying to invest, they would be engaging in trading tactics and practices in order to attempt to build their BTC holdings (and presumably their investment), but it still becomes confusing unless maybe they might say that they have an investment stash and a trading stash and from time to time, they move money from their trading stash into their investment stash in order to build it.. but they still might not be selling any of their investment stash... so there are variations in what people do, and we should not give up on attempting to clarify differences between investing and trading so that people might recognize the difference in terms of their own choices of what to do and potentially how to manage their BTC in the event that they decide to get into bitcoin in the long term such as 4-10 years or longer and invest into it rather than playing some kind of a shorter term play which would likely be a trade, even if they might change their mind later and convert from a trader to an investor..  Those kinds of transformational and conversion things happen too.

[edited out]

Dude! You are mixing two things together, I haven't heard of Bitcoin investment trading before and I don't think there's something like Bitcoin investment trading, short term investment is entirely different from trading. Short term investment can be a duration of 1 to 3 years and I don't think someone can place a trade and allow it to stay this long, that's the difference between trading and short term investment. I believe JJG have said something about this earlier before now when I was almost saying the same thing you are saying now.

I would suggest that there really is no such thing as short term investment in bitcoin that would be less than 4 years, since that is a kind of confused idea, and perhaps a hybrid, but it still seems to fall more in line with trying to catch a price wave rather than being an investment that aims to build up and hold the asset (namely bitcoin) so if someone is getting into bitcoin for less than 4 years they are just wanting to take some kind of a dollar profit.

Of course, 1-3 years can still be a decently long time for people, yet I think it is confusing to call it a short term investment when you are really talking about a trade to make some quickie dollars.. and sure, people can do what they like if they want to take chances and they think that they are going to be able to improve their financial situation, they surely can do that kind of a trade, yet is problematic and confusing if they are referring to it as an investment rather than what it really is when we really consider the matter.

We just confuse ourselves when we try to describe investment periods as being less than 4 years in bitcoin, and even 4 years is not a long investment period in terms of bitcoin or any investment, yet some elderly people, or people with poor health or even there could be some other reasons that shorter investment timelines might be justified.. so maybe 4-10 years as a timeline would tend to be a short term investment, and 10 years plus would be a long term investment. both categories are investments, but one is shorter and one is longer and in order to even be classified as an investment in bitcoin, there should be at  least be a 4 year timeline in order to not be classified as a trade.. That seems more logical than just willy-nilly throwing around terms and not clarifying what you mean?  what is the difference between a trade and  an investment?  Those can be good terms to clarify, especially if some members are seeming to mix them up and potentially create additional confusion..

[edited out]

One can trade shitcoins and if you are trading any shitcoin you can't call yourself a Bitcoin investor however if you are trading Bitcoin you can call yourself a Bitcoin investor which is also known as a short term Bitcoin investor.
Is either you are a short term Bitcoin investor or Long term Bitcoin investor, I remember very well that JJG said Bitcoin trading and Short term investment are just the same I wish he can visit this thread and clear us on this.
And is very much possible for someone to place a trade and it last for 1 year to 3 years, some people thinks Bitcoin trading is like forex trading were you just invest and within some minutes or days you withdraw.

Why can't you call some of those short and long term trades, and investments in bitcoin can be 4 years or longer.  Investments do tend to be for longer periods, yet it seems that there are cases in which investments in bitcoin could be as short as 4 years, otherwise what is the problem of calling less than 4 years as trades rather than investments?

If you are getting into bitcoin and you are wanting to play this upcoming wave in 1-3 years, then why would you consider yourself as a bitcoin investment, since you are just seeking dollar profits during that time period, and there is nothing wrong with wanting to get dollar profits if that is what you want to do, even though many of us have already asserted that investing in bitcoin is superior to trading it, yet there are people who might end up being able to make a trade and come out profitable and they might not end up selling too much bitcoin too soon, which historically has happened with a lot of people when the try to play a relatively short-term BTC price wave and then they end up selling too much bitcoin too soon... but whatever people can do what they want, and they can try to trade, and they might get lucky and profit from doing that... even if it might not be the greatest way of approaching bitcoin, and it seems problematic to be referring to that kind of a practice as investing.

I also already mentioned that there are ways that bitcoin buyers could be both trading and investing, and that is not necessarily better, but there are times when some folks might choose to do both, and frequently the pure investors will end up doing much better than those who are incorporating trading strategies, especially if we might look at comparison timelines that are a couple of cycles or more.. so surely in the short terms traders might show themselves to be way more  profitable, but it may not end up working so well for them in the long term if they compare what they did and where they got to someone who had been mostly just focusing on accumulating BTC and holding it.

Past performance also does not guarantee future results, yet overall traders do not tend to do better than investors, even though each person can decide for himself whether to trade and/or invest, whether to do one or another in a pure form or to try to do some  kind of a combination of both.... and when it comes to bitcoin I tend to recommend doing pure bitcoin investing, yet if you cannot help yourself in regards to trading, gambling and/or shitcoining, then at least attempt to limit that activity to no more than 10% of the value of your bitcoin including the time and energies you put into each, too.  Of course, each of us has to decide for ourselves and we have to live with the consequences too.. so it would be problematic if we are not figuring out what is best for ourselves, even if we might also be convinced by some person on the interwebs (whether me or anyone else), since no one is going to care as much about your financial and psychological well being or be able to build, protect and safeguard those individual particulars apart from your own assessment in regards to how these ideas apply to your situation and also the extent to which you might want to tailor what you do to your 9 individual factors.

Buying the dip is not for new investors but rather for old investors whom their bitcoin size is in a certain level, maybe 60% and above of their bitcoin target. They can wait to buy in the dip, so that their bitcoin portfolio can increase significantly when they buy more at a cheaper price. If you choose the wrong method as a beginner, you might end up wasting your time that you should have use to accumulate a good amount of bitcoin and you will miss the opportunities in the market.

What of a situation whereby a newbie enters his investment journey during a dip and has some big discretionary income available at his disposal. Are you saying he shouldn't take advantage of the dip and acquire as much as he can because he's a newbie or should he wait until after the dip tho start his accumulation journey. Of course not, he would buy as much as he can and follow up his investment with regular DCA accumulation. So the dip is for everybody, both new and old investors alike, but waiting explicitly for the dip to start your investment journey is a bad investment strategy. The dip is an advantage to buy at lower prizes and not to be totally dependent on to invest in Bitcoin.

Newbies should consider all three accumulation methods, and of course, DCA tends to be the best in order to attempt to maximize their investment if they have a lot of discretionary income at their disposal, they can decide their DCA amounts.

So maybe there is really no dilemma for the newbie since DCA tends to be the best of starting out approaches.

So if a newbie starts out with $100 per week, then it could take a year for the newbie to invest up to $5,200 into bitcoin, yet if the newbie comes to bitcoin and he already has $6,000 that he can invest right away, then he may well want to consider that $6k in terms of the three categories, and his decision on how to treat the $6k might also end up how he considers to treat the $100 per week that he had already been planning to do.

It is not necessarily easy to figure out how much of a lump sum such as $6k to put into each category, and maybe he could start by considering if he put $2k into each of the three categories, and then figure out if that makes him happy, or maybe he considers the matter and says screw it... he is going to buy right away with the $6k, and he will only spread out his buys over 3 weeks.. $2k per week.  There is a lot of discretion and a lot of ways to divide up such decision, and if we assume that the person already has an emergency fund and some back up funds and maybe he earns $2k per month and his expenses are $1,500 per month, so he has at least $4,500 in his emergency fund (3 months expenses), then he has more liberties, yet if he does not have good cashflow situation, he might want to allocate some of his $6k towards those categories of back up funds and/or emergency fund.  I understand that guys tend to want their capital to be working for them, yet at the same time, there tends to be a lot of value in maintaining back up funds, which an emergency fund is the most important of such.

[Raflesia]

As an investor it is never advisable to use to trading strategy expecially as a newbie that what to increase his Bitcoin portfolio for you may run at lost on the contrary and trading shouldn't be seen as Bitcoin accumulation strategy.

Also the buy the dip strategy because if an investor keep on waiting for Bitcoin to dip before accumulating such investor may wait till infinity if Bitcoin didn't dip and also waiting for dip is a way of missing more opportunities of accumulating Bitcoin when you can accumulate using the DCA strategy that allows you to accumulate Bitcoin irrespective of the price of Bitcoin, unless investors who has gotten to their maintance level may choose to practice buying the dip strategy because they don't need be buying frequently using the DCA strategy through their reserve fund they can as well buy the dip.

I think the recommendable strategy should be the lump sum strategy and the DCA strategy since it will help in increasing Bitcoin portfolio by buying in big size or accumulating little by little using the DCA strategy and hodl for long.

Of course it cannot be done because ultimately investing and trading are different so we cannot use the concept of trading for investing because it will not make sense and will not be forced like putting a square into a triangular space because ultimately these two things are different.

When we really want to invest then focus on investment strategies not referring to trading because it will never connect in the end.
Regardless of whether the strategy is done as long as we are sure of the method whether buy on the dip or DCA it will not be a problem but it should be understood that there will definitely be a priority scale in this case and in my opinion instead of waiting to buy on the dip which is unpredictable when the time will be more worth it running DCA in the end. But when you are really sure of the view of buying on the dip then do it because in the end there will be no coercion for anyone in the accumulation of bitcoin that they do because in the end in this case the sowing reaping system still runs in the sense that what we plant then that is what we will produce so in this case when you plant or invest bitcoin with a smaller nominal because of the wrong collection method then don't expect too much with the results of bitcoin commultaif will be a lot of course.

[Tungbulu]

So if a newbie starts out with $100 per week, then it could take a year for the newbie to invest up to $5,200 into bitcoin, yet if the newbie comes to bitcoin and he already has $6,000 that he can invest right away, then he may well want to consider that $6k in terms of the three categories, and his decision on how to treat the $6k might also end up how he considers to treat the $100 per week that he had already been planning to do.

You’ve made quite a very fine point here.
Bitcoin investment approaches may indeed vary based on the differences in the financial goals and stance of each individual that plans to invest in Bitcoin.
For instance, an investor who plans or chooses to invest in Bitcoin with a weekly budget of around $100, it’ll take lots of discipline, self control and patience to be able to actualize $5,200 in a year, while another investor who wishes to invest $6k upfront may be seen as one who has more flexibility than the other investor.

There will certainly be a huge difference in their investment strategies. The person who chose to invest $100 weekly would focus more on the DCA strategy, and have the patience and self control to invest regularly, regardless of the market’s fluctuations and by so doing, he’ll be able to ride out volatility while focusing on the long term growth and trajectory of Bitcoin. And such an investor is most likely to prioritize continuous education and staying informed on updates about Bitcoin investment, in order to make certain adjustments if/when necessary.

While the other investor on the other hand with $6k to invest upfront would rather choose to lump sum the whole amount while also planning for the long term goals based on his own personal risk tolerance and the asset’s potential returns.
It’s all about identifying your personal financial situation, goals and level of risk management/tolerance level.

[JayJuanGee]

So if a newbie starts out with $100 per week, then it could take a year for the newbie to invest up to $5,200 into bitcoin, yet if the newbie comes to bitcoin and he already has $6,000 that he can invest right away, then he may well want to consider that $6k in terms of the three categories, and his decision on how to treat the $6k might also end up how he considers to treat the $100 per week that he had already been planning to do.

You’ve made quite a very fine point here.
Bitcoin investment approaches may indeed vary based on the differences in the financial goals and stance of each individual that plans to invest in Bitcoin.
For instance, an investor who plans or chooses to invest in Bitcoin with a weekly budget of around $100, it’ll take lots of discipline, self control and patience to be able to actualize $5,200 in a year, while another investor who wishes to invest $6k upfront may be seen as one who has more flexibility than the other investor.

I think that part of the point that I was attempting to make is that it would be different for a person who has $100 per week to invest (for a year) and the same guy who also has $6k that he has with him right at the start.

The guy may or may not choose to adjust his $100 per week DCA, and the fact that he knows that he has an extra $100 coming in that he is going to be able to buy BTC with is not going to change merely because he has an extra $6k up front, so he could still choose to invest the $100 per week, or he might consider other options as is implied by the mere fact that his situations is much better in terms of options if he also has the $6k that is available to him... On the $100 per week part, he might not be able to reasonably front load his investment in to bitcoin, so each week he has to wait for the $100 to come into being available.  Nice to have more options.

The other comparison that you are making is one that has $6k up front but does not have $100 per week, and from my point of view, sure those kinds of situations are going to happen, yet it seems one of the more realistic consideration is that people invest and they also have a cashflow that they manage that allows them to be able to invest more as the money comes in and if the money happens to be discretionary income that is money in excess of what they need for their expenses.

There will certainly be a huge difference in their investment strategies. The person who chose to invest $100 weekly would focus more on the DCA strategy,

I still think that we are making different points, because in my hypothetical, I am presuming he does not have that $100 per week in advance, and he is only able to invest $100 per week as it comes in.  His only other option would be to just let the $100 per week to pile up in order to buy on dip (if there is a dip), and if there is not a dip, he is risking that he might have to buy BTC at higher prices rather than if he were to just buy each week as the $100 comes available.

and have the patience and self control to invest regularly, regardless of the market’s fluctuations and by so doing, he’ll be able to ride out volatility while focusing on the long term growth and trajectory of Bitcoin. And such an investor is most likely to prioritize continuous education and staying informed on updates about Bitcoin investment, in order to make certain adjustments if/when necessary.

I think that we are making similar points here.

While the other investor on the other hand with $6k to invest upfront would rather choose to lump sum the whole amount while also planning for the long term goals based on his own personal risk tolerance and the asset’s potential returns.
It’s all about identifying your personal financial situation, goals and level of risk management/tolerance level.

I might not have had made my hypotthetical very clear since I was trying to suggest that the only difference between the two is that one of them had an extra $6k upfront that he was able to invest, otherwise each of them had an income that was  sufficient that he would be able to invest $100 per week into bitcoin.

I am also suggesting that the three options available for the guy with $6k to supplement his already exiting $100 per week DCA also involves considering how to treat the upfront $6k by considering that money into the three categories of DCA, lump sum and buying on dip.. and sure he could divide 1/3 into each of those categories or he could decide some other way of apportioning within the three BTC accumulation categories.

[Tungbulu]

I am also suggesting that the three options available for the guy with $6k to supplement his already exiting $100 per week DCA also involves considering how to treat the upfront $6k by considering that money into the three categories of DCA, lump sum and buying on dip.. and sure he could divide 1/3 into each of those categories or he could decide some other way of apportioning within the three BTC accumulation categories.

I think I get a clearer view and understanding of the hypothetical scenario you referenced.
And yeah combining the 3 accumulation strategies and spreading the $60k across the different strategies may indeed maximize potential returns while also minimizing the risk of losses as long as the investor still maintains the long term perspective.

This hybrid approach helps the investor to be able to harness the advantages of the three strategies all at once.  By setting aside part of the money for constant DCA buying, the investor may be able to reduce timing risks and also ride out ride out market volatility while also spreading out the investment overtime, and by using another part for lump sum buying, he’ll be able to capitalize on the potential growth of the investment, and by setting aside the last portion of the money for buying the DIP, he’ll be able to take advantage of the market when there’s a downturn in the market.

The investor will be able to optimize their Bitcoin accumulation through this combined strategy as well as being able to mitigate the risks associated the market’s volatility.
Though it’s crucial for an investor to consider and also find the right balance based on their understanding of the market as well as their personal financial circumstances, because this combined approach may consider the individual’s financial goals, market analysis and risk tolerance.

[laijsica]

I am also suggesting that the three options available for the guy with $6k to supplement his already exiting $100 per week DCA also involves considering how to treat the upfront $6k by considering that money into the three categories of DCA, lump sum and buying on dip.. and sure he could divide 1/3 into each of those categories or he could decide some other way of apportioning within the three BTC accumulation categories.

I think I get a clearer view and understanding of the hypothetical scenario you referenced.
And yeah combining the 3 accumulation strategies and spreading the $60k across the different strategies may indeed maximize potential returns while also minimizing the risk of losses as long as the investor still maintains the long term perspective.

This hybrid approach helps the investor to be able to harness the advantages of the three strategies all at once.  By setting aside part of the money for constant DCA buying, the investor may be able to reduce timing risks and also ride out ride out market volatility while also spreading out the investment overtime, and by using another part for lump sum buying, he’ll be able to capitalize on the potential growth of the investment, and by setting aside the last portion of the money for buying the DIP, he’ll be able to take advantage of the market when there’s a downturn in the market.

The investor will be able to optimize their Bitcoin accumulation through this combined strategy as well as being able to mitigate the risks associated the market’s volatility.
Though it’s crucial for an investor to consider and also find the right balance based on their understanding of the market as well as their personal financial circumstances, because this combined approach may consider the individual’s financial goals, market analysis and risk tolerance.

I think you should give more importance to holding rather than expecting potential returns. Expectations of higher profits especially in Bitcoin investments can reduce the growth of Bitcoin holdings so you should focus on holding more. Also by holding long term DCA you can get a huge benefit that can increase the portfolio's growth trend over time. I don't agree to call these methods hybrids because when investing in Bitcoin you should make realistic decisions given the normal conditions like the DCA method. Also backup funds through which you can try to run DCA for long term and continuously and manage multiple cycles or more cycles.

When you see a market correction (dip) you can choose to invest your extra funds in a lump sum which will accelerate the growth of Bitcoin holdings and the possibility of having a decent portfolio before a cycle turns. To reduce the potential risk in investment you should give top priority to DCA strategy which is a universal method ideal for every class of investors.

[Tungbulu]

I think you should give more importance to holding rather than expecting potential returns. Expectations of higher profits especially in Bitcoin investments can reduce the growth of Bitcoin holdings so you should focus on holding more.

I think you may have clearly misunderstood my point. There’s nothing wrong with expecting potential returns in the long run, the wrong thing is wanting to take out the returns or profits. Again, when holding accumulating Bitcoin using the combined strategies, with intentions of HODLing for the long term, there’s definitely a potential for future returns, so whether you expect it or not, it’ll definitely come.

Also by holding long term DCA you can get a huge benefit that can increase the portfolio's growth trend over time.

I think we are just talking about same thing here, maybe my choice of words confused you or maybe I didn’t properly express my points. I do not dispute the fact that long term DCA can be an effective way to accumulate Bitcoin and also increase your Portfolio’s growth in the long run. I’m only addressing the possibility of combining all three accumulation strategies rather than just using one in a situation where the investor already has the funds to invest upfront.

[JayJuanGee]

I am also suggesting that the three options available for the guy with $6k to supplement his already exiting $100 per week DCA also involves considering how to treat the upfront $6k by considering that money into the three categories of DCA, lump sum and buying on dip.. and sure he could divide 1/3 into each of those categories or he could decide some other way of apportioning within the three BTC accumulation categories.

I think I get a clearer view and understanding of the hypothetical scenario you referenced.

Of course, I might not have had been very clear in the contrasting scenarios that I was trying to make and then you took the matter in another angle, which is not necessarily a bad thing, yet it ends up playing out as a different kind of hypothetical and a different point.

And yeah combining the 3 accumulation strategies and spreading the $60k across the different strategies may indeed maximize potential returns while also minimizing the risk of losses as long as the investor still maintains the long term perspective.

A lot of times, I suggest that guys should at least consider all three possible accumulation methods when they are faced with a lump sum or other opportunity, and even if they consider all three, they surely would not necessarily need to apply all three or even be advantaged in applying all three.. It is just a consideration that I believe that guys should make when they come across a situation in which they have a lump sum available to them, whether they get that lump sum opportunity at the very beginning of their being involved in bitcoin or whether some kind of lump sum amount comes available to them down the road after they had already been in bitcoin for a while.. whether it is a yearly bonus or maybe an inheritance or proceeds from the sale of property or other assets or some other way they get some extra money.

This hybrid approach helps the investor to be able to harness the advantages of the three strategies all at once.  By setting aside part of the money for constant DCA buying, the investor may be able to reduce timing risks and also ride out ride out market volatility while also spreading out the investment overtime, and by using another part for lump sum buying, he’ll be able to capitalize on the potential growth of the investment, and by setting aside the last portion of the money for buying the DIP, he’ll be able to take advantage of the market when there’s a downturn in the market.

I do think that with each of the methods, there are trade offs, and surely we are put into a different situation when we have the money right with us at the moment versus if we might be anticipating getting some money in the future, yet that money has not yet arrived in our account (or our hands), and so frequently DCA can either be thought of as a time-based delayed investment or it could be thought of buying BTC right away with as much money as we have available to us as soon as it becomes available to us.  Frequently it can be better to NOT treat money as being available until it arrives in our account, even though there are sometimes when guys do end up wanting to lock up their future payments in the form of a loan, which is not necessarily a bad thing, but could cause regrets if the BTC price goes down instead of up and surely loans tend to have their own costs and/or risks so there should be various ways to service the loans, even if they anticipated future income that was meant to service the debt ends up drying up.  One of the erroneous ways of thinking about loans that are used for buying bitcoin is to be able to service the loan with the future appreciation of the bitcoin, which does not necessarily work out so well if the BTC price moves against anticipation (meaning down) or even fails to go up as anticipated.

The investor will be able to optimize their Bitcoin accumulation through this combined strategy as well as being able to mitigate the risks associated the market’s volatility.

One of the most inevitable dynamics in bitcoin remains its volatility, and we cannot really know its short-term direction with any kind of confidence - even if we might anticipate that in the longer term the price direction is inclined upward, we should be careful in regards to how much certainty we apply to that too.

So, I am not sure if the methods help as much with short to medium term volatility as much as position size does, and over course the methods can help us in regards to dealing with position size within the context of our other various personal circumstances...and the demand on our cash in light of our needs and/or our wants... which surely would suggest that if we are wanting to be somewhat aggressive in our bitcoin accumulation, we still have to make sure that we maintain our aggressiveness within certain boundaries that are not going to cause us to overdo it.. so the different methods should be helpful in our balancing those, which I think that I frequently suggest that the more aggressive that we want to be, then the more sure that we need to be that we are using our various tools and options to the maximum that we are able to without screwing things up.. which causes our management of our various cash cushions to be more important to monitor and maintain.

Though it’s crucial for an investor to consider and also find the right balance based on their understanding of the market as well as their personal financial circumstances, because this combined approach may consider the individual’s financial goals, market analysis and risk tolerance.

Most of my own strategies try not to get too involved into any kinds of needs to understand the market to the extent of referring to short-term bitcoin price movements, even though surely many of us, including yours truly, spend a lot of time watching the BTC price go up and down and trying to figure out if there is any kind of meaning to such movement that might potentially interfere the strength of bitcoin as an investment and bitcoin's overall tendency to go up in price... even if there might be short-to-medium term doldrums.. Yet within the formula that you mentioned, the personal financial and psychological circumstances seem the most important to figure out and really maybe we should not get too preoccupied about our psychological circumstances since if we can put good personal cashflow management into place, then it is quite likely that the psychological circumstances should mostly take care of themselves, if we are a somewhat normal person rather than potentially having our own psychological inclinations that need to be accounted in one way or another...

yet even if we might already know that we have some psychological inclinations, we should be able to figure out some way of balancing our finances in a way that at least attempts to deal with our own psychological particulars... such as whether we might need to attempt to maintain more of a cash cushion or if we might feel better if we are invested a wee bit more aggressive and working with a slightly lower cash cushion than what others might want to maintain.. which also could bring some folks back to involving themselves with shitcoins, and there could be some folks who just cannot resist getting involved in shitcoins because they want to stay busy in researching and making sure that they are not missing out on some kind of a pump that might happen in one place or another, yet there might ONLY be so much that could be done for some folks if they also are not able to limit their shitcoin/trading allocation to something relatively low such as less than 10% the size of their bitcoin holdings..

[edited out]

I think you should give more importance to holding rather than expecting potential returns. Expectations of higher profits especially in Bitcoin investments can reduce the growth of Bitcoin holdings so you should focus on holding more. Also by holding long term DCA you can get a huge benefit that can increase the portfolio's growth trend over time.

These seem to be fair points in regards to anyone who might get too preoccupied with strategizing around buying dips that may or may not come, yet there can be ways that some guys might structure around DCAing and buying dips that might still end up being reasonably applied to their financial circumstances.

I don't agree to call these methods hybrids because when investing in Bitcoin you should make realistic decisions given the normal conditions like the DCA method.

It seems that any reference to "hybrid" would be the combination of methods.. so if any of the methods might be thought of in their pure form, then if they are combined, then the application of such combined method might be considered to be more of a hybrid since it is not being applied in a pure form... There are many times that we might attempt some kind of a hybrid application, yet if we know that we are doing it and we appreciate the trade offs in our application, then there is probably nothing wrong with applying our methods in any way that we might consider reasonable.

Also backup funds through which you can try to run DCA for long term and continuously and manage multiple cycles or more cycles.

You are saying this weirdly, even though what you are saying does not seem wrong.

When you see a market correction (dip) you can choose to invest your extra funds in a lump sum which will accelerate the growth of Bitcoin holdings and the possibility of having a decent portfolio before a cycle turns.

You are mixing up terms since you are talking about buying the dip, but you are using the term lump sum, which lump sum is a different strategy than buying the dip.

To reduce the potential risk in investment you should give top priority to DCA strategy which is a universal method ideal for every class of investors.

DCA is important to new investors or anyone still relatively early in their BTC accumulation stage.  Once a person has accumulated a decently good size quantity of BTC, they may well choose to deviate from a strict DCA approach and to start to employ some other accumulation strategies that would incorporate buying the dip.  It is not always going to be clear when someone might be justified to start to move away from a strict DCA approach, and I personally believe that many newbies get too prematurely distracted by BTC's price moves rather than just focusing on DCA for at least a whole cycle, yet these do end up being personal choices in regards to figuring out how to balance the trade-offs.. and in the end, no one on the internet is going to help out anyone in terms of their choices, so each person has to chose for himself and also to take responsibility for the consequences in regards to how much bitcoin he ends up with and those kinds of real world consequences.

[sotelorene]

I am also suggesting that the three options available for the guy with $6k to supplement his already exiting $100 per week DCA also involves considering how to treat the upfront $6k by considering that money into the three categories of DCA, lump sum and buying on dip.. and sure he could divide 1/3 into each of those categories or he could decide some other way of apportioning within the three BTC accumulation categories.

I think I get a clearer view and understanding of the hypothetical scenario you referenced.
And yeah combining the 3 accumulation strategies and spreading the $60k across the different strategies may indeed maximize potential returns while also minimizing the risk of losses as long as the investor still maintains the long term perspective.

This hybrid approach helps the investor to be able to harness the advantages of the three strategies all at once.  By setting aside part of the money for constant DCA buying, the investor may be able to reduce timing risks and also ride out ride out market volatility while also spreading out the investment overtime, and by using another part for lump sum buying, he’ll be able to capitalize on the potential growth of the investment, and by setting aside the last portion of the money for buying the DIP, he’ll be able to take advantage of the market when there’s a downturn in the market.

The investor will be able to optimize their Bitcoin accumulation through this combined strategy as well as being able to mitigate the risks associated the market’s volatility.
Though it’s crucial for an investor to consider and also find the right balance based on their understanding of the market as well as their personal financial circumstances, because this combined approach may consider the individual’s financial goals, market analysis and risk tolerance.

I think you should give more importance to holding rather than expecting potential returns. Expectations of higher profits especially in Bitcoin investments can reduce the growth of Bitcoin holdings so you should focus on holding more. Also by holding long term DCA you can get a huge benefit that can increase the portfolio's growth trend over time. I don't agree to call these methods hybrids because when investing in Bitcoin you should make realistic decisions given the normal conditions like the DCA method. Also backup funds through which you can try to run DCA for long term and continuously and manage multiple cycles or more cycles.

When you see a market correction (dip) you can choose to invest your extra funds in a lump sum which will accelerate the growth of Bitcoin holdings and the possibility of having a decent portfolio before a cycle turns. To reduce the potential risk in investment you should give top priority to DCA strategy which is a universal method ideal for every class of investors.

You are actually right but one thing we ought to know is that the more an investor is accumulating the more profit they are expecting to have or get when the time comes and I don't think expecting a potential return is a bad thing for investor as a matter of fact big expectation is what motivate some people to go into Bitcoin investment because it's really going to be massive depending on your accumulation and holding.

But if an investor is accumulating very small and he's expecting a potential return, apparently he's deceiving himself though setting our hope high is not bad but it should be within what we are giving in (what we are investing with). DCA doesn't guarantee success rather your investment success depends on how one is going about it.

[red4slash]

There will certainly be a huge difference in their investment strategies. The person who chose to invest $100 weekly would focus more on the DCA strategy,

I still think that we are making different points, because in my hypothetical, I am presuming he does not have that $100 per week in advance, and he is only able to invest $100 per week as it comes in.  His only other option would be to just let the $100 per week to pile up in order to buy on dip (if there is a dip), and if there is not a dip, he is risking that he might have to buy BTC at higher prices rather than if he were to just buy each week as the $100 comes available.

This point is actually not too wrong but in the end, won't this make the situation a little complicated for yourself, especially for beginners who are only trying to predict roughly because they are definitely still not too familiar with some techniques in analysis or technical analysis so they are like waiting for things that are not too certain when the decline occurs and this could actually make them not make purchases that should be made because it is not easy to change the view when assuming and hoping that prices will fall to being full of risk by buying without thinking about prices.

Not that bitcoin cannot go down because in the end price fluctuations will certainly always exist but on the other hand we must be aware that guessing without a clear situation because they (beginners) only roughly guess that bitcoin will go down is actually in my opinion complicating themselves so it would be more worth it if they did make a decision from the start by buying bitcoin directly without having to wait for dip when they are able to do so.

[JayJuanGee]

There will certainly be a huge difference in their investment strategies. The person who chose to invest $100 weekly would focus more on the DCA strategy,

I still think that we are making different points, because in my hypothetical, I am presuming he does not have that $100 per week in advance, and he is only able to invest $100 per week as it comes in.  His only other option would be to just let the $100 per week to pile up in order to buy on dip (if there is a dip), and if there is not a dip, he is risking that he might have to buy BTC at higher prices rather than if he were to just buy each week as the $100 comes available.

This point is actually not too wrong but in the end, won't this make the situation a little complicated for yourself, especially for beginners who are only trying to predict roughly because they are definitely still not too familiar with some techniques in analysis or technical analysis so they are like waiting for things that are not too certain when the decline occurs and this could actually make them not make purchases that should be made because it is not easy to change the view when assuming and hoping that prices will fall to being full of risk by buying without thinking about prices.

Not that bitcoin cannot go down because in the end price fluctuations will certainly always exist but on the other hand we must be aware that guessing without a clear situation because they (beginners) only roughly guess that bitcoin will go down is actually in my opinion complicating themselves so it would be more worth it if they did make a decision from the start by buying bitcoin directly without having to wait for dip when they are able to do so.

Many normies when they are new to bitcoin (or even investing for that matter), will erroneously come to the mistake that they have to GO BIG or GO HOME, so it can be quite difficult for them to internalize the idea of  DCA... so they have tendencies to want to front load their investment, even prior to their getting used to investing into bitcoin and before they have really figured out how they were going to go about it.

So even if they might say that they are ready for either up or down prices, they might end up not really being prepared because they ended up over-investing in light of their own mental preparedness.

I understand that no one is comfortable losing money, even if they ONLY put in $10, so there can be some difficulties for any of us to get over our loss aversion sensations and to figure out a position size and even an investing approach that may well allow us to continue to invest (such as DCA) for at least 4 years before really starting to potentially strategizing around price, and really, sometimes there may be some needs to invest 10-15 years or longer before starting to worry about price, especially if the amount invested might even be less than 10% of their income/expenses...so it can really take a long time to build an investment portfolio that might cover 1-2 years or longer of expenses, especially if the investment amounts are not very high.

[SuperBitMan]

There will certainly be a huge difference in their investment strategies. The person who chose to invest $100 weekly would focus more on the DCA strategy,

I still think that we are making different points, because in my hypothetical, I am presuming he does not have that $100 per week in advance, and he is only able to invest $100 per week as it comes in.  His only other option would be to just let the $100 per week to pile up in order to buy on dip (if there is a dip), and if there is not a dip, he is risking that he might have to buy BTC at higher prices rather than if he were to just buy each week as the $100 comes available.

This point is actually not too wrong but in the end, won't this make the situation a little complicated for yourself, especially for beginners who are only trying to predict roughly because they are definitely still not too familiar with some techniques in analysis or technical analysis so they are like waiting for things that are not too certain when the decline occurs and this could actually make them not make purchases that should be made because it is not easy to change the view when assuming and hoping that prices will fall to being full of risk by buying without thinking about prices.

Not that bitcoin cannot go down because in the end price fluctuations will certainly always exist but on the other hand we must be aware that guessing without a clear situation because they (beginners) only roughly guess that bitcoin will go down is actually in my opinion complicating themselves so it would be more worth it if they did make a decision from the start by buying bitcoin directly without having to wait for dip when they are able to do so.

Many normies when they are new to bitcoin (or even investing for that matter), will erroneously come to the mistake that they have to GO BIG or GO HOME, so it can be quite difficult for them to internalize the idea of  DCA... so they have tendencies to want to front load their investment, even prior to their getting used to investing into bitcoin and before they have really figured out how they were going to go about it.

So even if they might say that they are ready for either up or down prices, they might end up not really being prepared because they ended up over-investing in light of their own mental preparedness.

I understand that no one is comfortable losing money, even if they ONLY put in $10, so there can be some difficulties for any of us to get over our loss aversion sensations and to figure out a position size and even an investing approach that may well allow us to continue to invest (such as DCA) for at least 4 years before really starting to potentially strategizing around price, and really, sometimes there may be some needs to invest 10-15 years or longer before starting to worry about price, especially if the amount invested might even be less than 10% of their income/expenses...so it can really take a long time to build an investment portfolio that might cover 1-2 years or longer of expenses, especially if the investment amounts are not very high.

You are right, when I started Bitcoin investment I felt I have been lift behind especially when I hear people talk about the account of Bitcoin they have accumulated I wanted to accumulate like them too forgetting they have been accumulating for years, because of this feeling some newbies start investing aggressively and before you know it they hit a fuck you stage, some newbie feels DCA is a slow way of accumulation that is meant for people who has already accumulated enough Bitcoin the reason why some newbies feel this way is because they feel they are behind in accumulation and wants to meet up with others and also they really don't understand what DCA strategy is all about.
Those people we are seeing now that has gone far in there Bitcoin accumulation started from somewhere some of them used DCA strategy and they were Accumulating little by little, Bitcoin is not running away so take your time don't be in a rush.
And when it comes to DCA strategy is not a slow way of accumulation if you have a good paying job or business you can decide to invest $1k or more weekly or monthly, when it comes to DCA strategy of accumulation it all depends on what you can afford.

The number of years one can stay before accumulating enough Bitcoin depends on the account he or she puts in his or her accumulation, if someone is using $100 to accumulate weekly it will take him or her more years than someone using $1k weekly

[asarfiar]

I have come to understand that great wealth comes only when we store value over a period of time and hold it for decades. And that should be the same for Bitcoin, cos it is such an asset with great value.

Indeed, things are like that, when it comes to investment many things are always considered, the first is patience and the second is time, I think that many people do not have enough patience to wait for the opportunity to happen, when you talk about 10-15 years it is ideal, but the problem is that the person who is willing to invest resists all that time without using the money that he has in the investment, or rather is that the money that he has in the investment is not needed, because eventually many have the great need to use it, it is difficult, this is where a rich person has the advantage.

Patience is a symbol of good luck in human life, those who do not have patience i.e. a person without patience is like a torch without light. If you want to develop yourself as patient then you will achieve success. Patience and time are two things that are closely related in our life which once gone cannot be regained even with a thousand attempts. Just as we can't achieve success in anything without patience, in the case of Bitcoin we need to continue our investment efforts with patience as it is a long-term investment system.
As an example it can be said that patience is a flower that spreads fragrance everywhere, patience will bring success.
Since Bitcoin investment is a long-term process, we need to patiently proceed with the next step of Bitcoin investment by adopting the DCA method, otherwise it may lead to long-term losses later. So in such a situation, you have to decide what to do next.

[Popkon6]

I have come to understand that great wealth comes only when we store value over a period of time and hold it for decades. And that should be the same for Bitcoin, cos it is such an asset with great value.

Indeed, things are like that, when it comes to investment many things are always considered, the first is patience and the second is time, I think that many people do not have enough patience to wait for the opportunity to happen, when you talk about 10-15 years it is ideal, but the problem is that the person who is willing to invest resists all that time without using the money that he has in the investment, or rather is that the money that he has in the investment is not needed, because eventually many have the great need to use it, it is difficult, this is where a rich person has the advantage.

Patience is a symbol of good luck in human life, those who do not have patience i.e. a person without patience is like a torch without light. If you want to develop yourself as patient then you will achieve success. Patience and time are two things that are closely related in our life which once gone cannot be regained even with a thousand attempts. Just as we can't achieve success in anything without patience, in the case of Bitcoin we need to continue our investment efforts with patience as it is a long-term investment system.
As an example it can be said that patience is a flower that spreads fragrance everywhere, patience will bring success.
Since Bitcoin investment is a long-term process, we need to patiently proceed with the next step of Bitcoin investment by adopting the DCA method, otherwise it may lead to long-term losses later. So in such a situation, you have to decide what to do next.

Our next step is to create the design, because if you design according to the plan, you can execute the plan according to the design. Because investing in bitcoins does not end the responsibility, it increases the responsibility, because you have to follow the proper steps of how to control the invested money. 
But you can keep your bitcoin investment under proper control, because you notice that if you accumulate two to three thousand dollars worth of bitcoins, you need enough intelligence to control it. So you should opt for DCA method in this case and save in a strong wallet. Then you can keep your investment alive for long term, and thus you will continue to accumulate your investment for years to come as per your plan and the amount of money in your wallet will continue to grow.

[Lida93]

I have come to understand that great wealth comes only when we store value over a period of time and hold it for decades. And that should be the same for Bitcoin, cos it is such an asset with great value.

Indeed, things are like that, when it comes to investment many things are always considered, the first is patience and the second is time, I think that many people do not have enough patience to wait for the opportunity to happen, when you talk about 10-15 years it is ideal, but the problem is that the person who is willing to invest resists all that time without using the money that he has in the investment, or rather is that the money that he has in the investment is not needed, because eventually many have the great need to use it, it is difficult, this is where a rich person has the advantage.

Having to be patient to invest in bitcoin and hodl to about 10 years (that's around 2 and half circles)  it should mean that you've a steady financial flow wherein there is an available emergency funds and savings aside your regular monthly or weekly income flows (salary). More often than not, there are investors that had their long range investments plan cut short as a result of a collapse of these factors in the process of their hodling  and the only safe-haven was to fall back to their bitcoin investment. For such investors it's not due to a lack of patience but life uncertainties just happened to them. 

In other words, it takes the availability of emergency funds, savings and at least a reliable source of income to be able to manage up to accumulate, hodl ones bitcoin investment  portfolio successfully to a projected long range. It is for this that we're encouraged to have streams of income so we can always take advantage of the bitcoin market volatility either through DCA or lump-sum but let the plan always be for long term if you're to make significant profits.

[naira]

So even if they might say that they are ready for either up or down prices, they might end up not really being prepared because they ended up over-investing in light of their own mental preparedness.

Halving 2024 I released all Bitcoin holdings that had been DCA for 4 years (maybe it's too early to release it but as a small retailer the economic situation is not always friendly), full of twists and turns and indeed as you said it is not easy to win mentally from the fluctuating price situation when the financial condition is getting thinner but I have gone through all that. From the sales I managed to build my dream house.

Now facing the next 4 years I will start DCA again with full preparation from before, with strategies and all the shortcomings that have been evaluated.

I secretly learned a lot from all your opinions about DCA.

[Litzki1990]

I have come to understand that great wealth comes only when we store value over a period of time and hold it for decades. And that should be the same for Bitcoin, cos it is such an asset with great value.

Indeed, things are like that, when it comes to investment many things are always considered, the first is patience and the second is time, I think that many people do not have enough patience to wait for the opportunity to happen, when you talk about 10-15 years it is ideal, but the problem is that the person who is willing to invest resists all that time without using the money that he has in the investment, or rather is that the money that he has in the investment is not needed, because eventually many have the great need to use it, it is difficult, this is where a rich person has the advantage.

Patience is a symbol of good luck in human life, those who do not have patience i.e. a person without patience is like a torch without light. If you want to develop yourself as patient then you will achieve success. Patience and time are two things that are closely related in our life which once gone cannot be regained even with a thousand attempts. Just as we can't achieve success in anything without patience, in the case of Bitcoin we need to continue our investment efforts with patience as it is a long-term investment system.
As an example it can be said that patience is a flower that spreads fragrance everywhere, patience will bring success.
Since Bitcoin investment is a long-term process, we need to patiently proceed with the next step of Bitcoin investment by adopting the DCA method, otherwise it may lead to long-term losses later. So in such a situation, you have to decide what to do next.

Our next step is to create the design, because if you design according to the plan, you can execute the plan according to the design. Because investing in bitcoins does not end the responsibility, it increases the responsibility, because you have to follow the proper steps of how to control the invested money. 
But you can keep your bitcoin investment under proper control, because you notice that if you accumulate two to three thousand dollars worth of bitcoins, you need enough intelligence to control it. So you should opt for DCA method in this case and save in a strong wallet. Then you can keep your investment alive for long term, and thus you will continue to accumulate your investment for years to come as per your plan and the amount of money in your wallet will continue to grow.

Of course, as we cannot do any construction without its design, what investment will be planned and how much is its target, but it must be planned in advance. If there is a definite plan for the investment then there is no chance of the investment going haphazard. 

As you mentioned here about DCA investment strategy, in this investment strategy usually investors get opportunity to invest consistently but with DCA investment strategy, if investors invest in a specific plan, their investment will be more effective. I think the investment should be done in such a way that the investor keeps the investment consistency just like his savings so that he will have a regular investment as well as a good chance of getting profit in the future.

[Obim34]

There will certainly be a huge difference in their investment strategies. The person who chose to invest $100 weekly would focus more on the DCA strategy,

I still think that we are making different points, because in my hypothetical, I am presuming he does not have that $100 per week in advance, and he is only able to invest $100 per week as it comes in.  His only other option would be to just let the $100 per week to pile up in order to buy on dip (if there is a dip), and if there is not a dip, he is risking that he might have to buy BTC at higher prices rather than if he were to just buy each week as the $100 comes available.

This point is actually not too wrong but in the end, won't this make the situation a little complicated for yourself, especially for beginners who are only trying to predict roughly because they are definitely still not too familiar with some techniques in analysis or technical analysis so they are like waiting for things that are not too certain when the decline occurs and this could actually make them not make purchases that should be made because it is not easy to change the view when assuming and hoping that prices will fall to being full of risk by buying without thinking about prices.

Not that bitcoin cannot go down because in the end price fluctuations will certainly always exist but on the other hand we must be aware that guessing without a clear situation because they (beginners) only roughly guess that bitcoin will go down is actually in my opinion complicating themselves so it would be more worth it if they did make a decision from the start by buying bitcoin directly without having to wait for dip when they are able to do so.

For a beginner insisting on piling up part of his income for investing and waiting till the price dip before entering the market is not prompted to be efficient, it is more risky doing so than when prefer to DCA and purchase weekly. The market can be volatile with profits or loss but it is unpredictable at the point when the investor might become ready to throw in the funds. Every price mark at which we can accumulate Bitcoin counts, the extra time we delay can later on be irreplaceable or perhaps have to wait for a longer time before seeing that moment again.

Any good investor will not be ready to throw in their investment funds on the basis of Bitcoin price predictions, we can not always be right and any lame action can place certain consequences through the whole process. DCA has cleared the doubts, purchasing according to how we earn can grow our portfolio not undermining what the price of Bitcoin is at that moment, the only thing is at the end when budget has been met their is always good amount of profits to show off.

[ginsan]

For a beginner insisting on piling up part of his income for investing and waiting till the price dip before entering the market is not prompted to be efficient, it is more risky doing so than when prefer to DCA and purchase weekly. The market can be volatile with profits or loss but it is unpredictable at the point when the investor might become ready to throw in the funds. Every price mark at which we can accumulate Bitcoin counts, the extra time we delay can later on be irreplaceable or perhaps have to wait for a longer time before seeing that moment again.

Any good investor will not be ready to throw in their investment funds on the basis of Bitcoin price predictions, we can not always be right and any lame action can place certain consequences through the whole process. DCA has cleared the doubts, purchasing according to how we earn can grow our portfolio not undermining what the price of Bitcoin is at that moment, the only thing is at the end when budget has been met their is always good amount of profits to show off.

Delayed time is a bad thing in investment because at that time we had the opportunity to buy but postponed it. As a form of our consistency in investing is our routine of buying bitcoin, regardless of the price and it is not a benchmark if we use the DCA strategy.
We must be optimistic about long-term investment and do not continue to postpone investment because time goes by quite quickly and it will make us tired of waiting.

With confidence for the long term, the purchase execution time can be done at any price because we don't need to think about the price if we want to accumulate bitcoin in the portfolio. In comparison, Saylor always buys at the top but he is not afraid because he uses DCA. yes, that can be used as a reference for motivation.