Road to 100k?

[Btcdeybodi]

 I sold in 2016 autumn, just enough to buy PC parts but clearly that cost me alot to do so.   I did later recognize in Feb 2017 BTC was silently stronger then it appeared but almost always DCA is entirely justified.  Its normal to be distracted or even worse, fearful, scared to buy and maybe scared into selling.

I don't believe it is normal to get distracted during your time of investment because if you had set out plan for emergency funds and reserves, you wouldn't have considered selling your BTC to buy an ordinary PC even though you needed the PC so badly to enhance some other stuffs you do online but it's bad to sell an asset like BTC just to buy an ordinary PC. This is the area where emergency funds plays an important role because buying the PC was very urgent to you which your emergency funds would have sorted out had it been you made provision for it during your time of investment. It is good for us to know that if you don't want to be distracted by any needs while investing then you must keep reserved and emergency funds because situations like this are meant to occur in the future so they can be taken care of without affecting your DCA and you still keep accumulating.

My understanding of the market is via trading and why it gets the sharp moves like the 2020 low and later rises.  When we do pass 70k and confirm it as a low not a peak area, the character of the market will change alot from now.

   I haven't accumulated enough so if anything I'm biased to wanting the lower prices tbh; I saw us breaking down to 50k recently and sadly it didnt play out   A failed move to the downside explains why we've risen harder now.   Its interesting to me, anyhow I get how all these are games played and not actually the main picture for BTC.

I would have alot more BTC and be better off overall if I had been more bullish on BTC in every state of its cycle, up or down.   Trading is generally not the best idea, it'll take up alot of time and most people wont excel enough to ever justify saying they trade a bull market like this; I'd include myself in that but it remains an interest of mine.

This is where you have said the truth because you literally depended on trading your Bitcoins that was the reason you sold your Bitcoins for some short term gains but even after you sold, was it able to solve all your immediate needs? i guess no, that's why anyone who is into Bitcoin investments should remove the mindset of trading at any short period of time despite if the price skyrockets very high. You should consider owning a huge portfolio in the long run than stoop so low on short term gains.

[Samlucky O]

Some people only consider hodling for a number of years without considering if that is enough hodling, I think if one wants to accumulate enough he shouldn't not consider the number of years but consider if he has truly accumulated enough.

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In as much as what we are doing is continuous something I mean no one knows how long Bitcoin will stay but with what we are seeing I don't think Bitcoin will end or stop anytime soon and we don't pray for that either, so for this reason I don't think it is necessary to set a target on the number of years one wish to accumulate perhaps this should be a continuous something (accumulating anything you have money to...), Again setting target can be frustrating and it can also put unnecessary pressure on someone.

Not having target sound kinda boring to you think is like playing a running game without no end. and one bitcoin investment goal don`t have be years he or she can set their base on their bitcoin stashes , and most time after hitting your you can choose to go extra miles . like for instance your goal is one bitcoin and you endup hitting that goal, so you may decide to accumulate a little till you are satisfied . and meeting your goal doesn`t mean you are going to stop holding still but it means that you have gotten yourself some nice quantities , and you can take some profit while you choose to replace it or not.

The idea of having no target at all would probably not be a good one, yet the idea of having some loosely framed targets would probably be good, and such loosely framed targets might not be well expressed in terms of either bitcoin or dollars,

I have watch my coment recieving quote upon quote for sometime now, but I guess I will have to reply and I will like you @JJG to throw more light to this, my question is this, does it mean that time frame or interval does not matter in bitcoin investment or accumulation process? because we have been discussing alot about setting out target or specific period of time we should invest, this has been lingering for long now, in prior to 4-10years and 20-30.  even though there are  other things to be considered like having a target of the amount of btc we should accumulate for a period of time, and age gap. but that does not mean we should neglect time frame or the number of years we plan to accumulate. because from different coment here I think the year doesn't matter anymore? according to my observations the years of accounting is just like an emagination, but the main Focus is just to have that mindset that " I need to accumulate like 0.2 btc" then with an imaginative thinking of calculating that if one should accumulate $15 every week multiply by 4 which is a months multiply by 12 months which is a year e.g
$15 *4week= $60per 1month
$60 * 12month = $720 1year
$720 * 20years = $14400
this means it will take either 20 year and above or below to accumulate this amount of btc. though along the line the accumulator may decide to lump sum a huge amount or decide to increase his discretion and weekly DCA and the years of accumulation may reduce to 10 years and the speculated time frame of 20years was not achieve, but the btc was achieved, doesn't mean we should totally deny that the year of accounting does not matter. What do you have to say about this? Because the matter is bit complicated.

[JayJuanGee]

I see the market as being driven by traders and thats why we've been in a range.  People do buy BTC on leverage, they pay interest to do so and then they sell.  Lots of markets especially commodity markets are driven in that way.  So far its been too tempting to sell at 70k, once again I expect some test in this area.

Away from that idea, maybe the best BTC I did hold was some that I forgot about.  Luckily I did rediscover it like 5 years later so I had not made the frequent mistake to sell.   Otherwise I have to say I'm often guilty of not the greatest judgement.

  I sold in 2016 autumn, just enough to buy PC parts but clearly that cost me alot to do so.   I did later recognize in Feb 2017 BTC was silently stronger then it appeared but almost always DCA is entirely justified.  Its normal to be distracted or even worse, fearful, scared to buy and maybe scared into selling.

Don't you find it a bit ironic that you seem to be recommending trading BTC, even though you give examples of how you have been both fucked by trading and partially saved by forced HODL?

In other words, you are kind of admitting that you are giving bad advice... and surely, it is too bad that you still persist with a kind of trading disposition even though it is likely not going to work out for either you or anyone following such practices, unless you can figure out how to sell in such a way that you are not trying to buy back lower, but that is part of your problem in terms of both greed and likely ongoingly not learning your lesson by selling too much too soon and wrongly believing it is going to work to your advantage.

Just think about how much money you could have right now, even if you had followed a fairly straight-forward consistent and strict DCA strategy, and for some reason you still believe that trading is better... even though it has already bit you in the ass.

Think about if you had invested right around $30 per week into bitcoin since your forum registration date, you would have had invested right around $17.4k and you would have just over 20 BTC (currently valued at right around $1.35 million, and surely those would be decent returns, and surely not a bad place to be, yet instead you seem to continue to want to recommend a trading strategy as if you need to trade BTC in order to be able to improve upon a more straight-forward and disciplined ongoing DCA strategy.   I really doubt whatever you have been doing has been able to equal or exceed a straight-forward DCA strategy and you still are contradictorily arguing for such.

My understanding of the market is via trading and why it gets the sharp moves like the 2020 low and later rises.  When we do pass 70k and confirm it as a low not a peak area, the character of the market will change alot from now.

   I haven't accumulated enough so if anything I'm biased to wanting the lower prices tbh;

That is a newbie perspective, and not a perspective of someone who has been in bitcoin for more than 11 years.  Too bad that you continue to advocate trading, when it seems to have had not worked out very well for you, yet you still have not learned and you seem to insist on continuing not to learn from your mistakes of the past.

For some reason, you seem to believe that the situation (or bitcoin's investment thesis) has changed merely because the price went up and you are seeming to ongoingly be caught in the same ongoing fallacy of underestimating BTC's upside potential and your supposed ability to figure out when dips might happen.

I saw us breaking down to 50k recently and sadly it didnt play out  

Exactly.  You should have had been concentrating on accumulating through that whole time, especially if you are admitting that you don't have enough and you consider yourself to still be in an accumulation stage.  I am not even blaming you for still being in an accumulation stage, but I am blaming you in both believing in promoting trading as if it were the answer, when surely both history has shown trading to not be the answer, and there is no real reason to speculate that trading is the answer into the future, since bitcoin is a similar asset as it was in the past, maybe with a bit less upside potential, but still way more than enough upside potential to instruct anyone who is trying to accumulate BTC that the better ways to accumulate BTC are through various buying techniques such as DCA, buying on dips and lump sum buying.  Neither waiting nor selling are good in regards to better practices to accumulate BTC.

But yeah, sometimes stubborn folks never learn.. and worse you are trying to suggest that others do the same thing as you.

A failed move to the downside explains why we've risen harder now.   Its interesting to me, anyhow I get how all these are games played and not actually the main picture for BTC.

Another explanation is that we are in a bullmarket so you should be considering that any breakouts are more inclined to break up rather than down.. but hey whatever, come up with whatever lame trading theories that you like and have fun staying in your accumulation stage way longer than you likely need to based on more sound practices of BTC accumulation that focus upon buying strategies rather than getting distracted into trading strategies that may or may not end up playing out... which likely either contribute to your failing to buy enough or selling too much too soon.. either way, you end up with fewer BTC than you should have, even though you believe that you are getting coins cheaper, you are losing what should be your focus, which is accumulating BTC regularly, consistently, persistently and ongoingly until you reach enough or more than enough and not getting overly preoccupied by how much they are costing you and not getting too worried about selling on the way up.. which seems to be an ongoing mistake that you have been making through the years and continuing to make.

I would have alot more BTC and be better off overall if I had been more bullish on BTC in every state of its cycle, up or down.  

Oh gawd.. then why do you keep bouncing out of bullishness?  You need a slappening.  Perhaps from batman.

Trading is generally not the best idea, it'll take up alot of time and most people wont excel enough to ever justify saying they trade a bull market like this; I'd include myself in that but it remains an interest of mine.

You are too greedy.

If you cannot resist trading (gambling), if you at least limit your BTC trading stash to 10% of your bitcoin holdings, then at least you would still be able to entertain your gambling(trading) addiction, but part of the problem with any addict is that they neither know when to stop, and even if they believe that they are stopping, they still end u suffering from creep.. the gambling creeps in more and more and more, and they end up cheating on any limits that they had set for themselves.

It is not easy to be both a BTC HODLer and to consistently continue to buy (accumulate) BTC through the UPs and DOWNs until getting enough BTC and perhaps more than enough BTC, and surely sometimes it can take more than 1 or 2 cycles to get to a BTC stash size that might allow changing tactics away from accumulation that is based on pure buying and allow for selling on the way up.. and even when any of us might be selling on the way up, we are not necessarily selling  in order to buy BTC back cheaper, so we end up selling a low enough quantity of BTC that we presume that the BTC price is going to continue to go up and not come back down.  Part of your problem STT is that you are both predicting and desiring the BTC price to go down so that you can buy back more cheaper, and surely you could even have many many many times in which you are successful to buy back cheaper, yet if you are selling too much too soon, then sooner or later you are not going to be able to buy back, and therefore you end up losing all of the profits that you had stacked up in your previous trades... and even if you are very good and you have historically been very lucky, it does not take very many of those bad trades to both wipe out your profits, but also to contribute to your overall BTC stash being way smaller than it would have otherwise been with a more simple and straightforward strategy that focuses upon both accumulation of BTC through buying and also HODL when running out of money to buy more.

I owned a bit of the tech shares when they much cheaper.  They have risen alot since the millennium era fallout, they have been a bull market and dont sell a bull market whatever asset type that is.  BTC is bullish for sure.

Ok.. that sounds like a good idea.  At least you are not completely nutso.  hahahahaha

A funny story I read is Goldman Sachs owning quite alot of Tencent just when it started out, they made a quick buck of course like investment banks do.  If instead GS had held shares not sold then the millions would now be many billions more then entire bank worth is today [share price fell since that story but still an epic gain].  

Even professionals screw up, not being on leverage is a great advantage over those forced to ride a yoyo because they trade with borrowed dollars.

Another set of fair points, yet surely we are talking about bitcoin here rather than other investments, even though surely sometimes reasonable parallels can be drawn, even though at the same time, it may well be distracting to get caught up with a variety of investments, and so in some sense, there is quite a bit of logic for any bitcoiner to get his/her bitcoin strategy in place over 1 or 2 cycles before getting distracted into other investments, and maybe even then there might need to be some care in terms of how much any of us might decide to invest into other assets once we have built our bitcoin stash up to a certain acceptable (and perhaps overly stocked up) size.. When to diversify, how much and even how carry out such a thing seems to be another strategy (topic) that might lead us a bit further astray from what should be a bitcoin line of discussion (a bitcoin thread).

I think more time to accumulate will occur this year though it seems we wont be going back to the lows of the year, thats been rejected a few times.  I do think it takes some time to get past 70k and properly move beyond.   The real time to buy was either in the teens or when we were rising from there, it required more confidence to do so.   Right now we've been stuck in a range for 6 months, most tempting thing is to buy the lows of that range and sell the highs hence it repeats.

Your explanation sounds more of trading to me. As an investor in Bitcoin you shouldn't be talking of selling for now rather keep on hodling unless you have been accumulating Bitcoin for long and have accumulated enough and decide to sell out some of your Bitcoin hodling. For the goal is to accumulate more and more Bitcoin and HODL for future purpose the DCA method is there to help us accumulate Bitcoin in different price level weekly or monthly and hodl for long.

Yep.  Exactly.

STT admits that he still is in an accumulation stage even though he has been in bitcoin for more than 11 years.. so sure, nothing wrong with still being in an accumulation stage, yet there does seem to be something wrong in terms of believing that selling is a reasonable and prudent strategy to accumulate bitcoin, when many of us have been discussing for quite long time (and even newbies learn this) that the better ways to accumulate bitcoin relate to various ways of buying bitcoin that involve DCA, lump sum and buying the dip, and so neither waiting nor selling BTC are good accumulation strategies until after you have either accumulated enough or more than enough BTC, and STT admits that he has not yet reached either sufficient or over accumulation of BTC.

[edited out]

Well maybe I didn't express myself very well but what I was trying to drive at is that if you have a target of accumulating for a number of year and you reach that target and later realize you have not accumulated enough is better you then channel your target on a certain number which you want or you can analyze yourself and know how many years you would set again to hit your main target.

Our goal should be on accumulating what will satisfy us and not just reaching a number year, what should matter is how satisfied we are in our Bitcoin investment, so when setting a target will should always go for our self satisfaction not not just normal investment norm.
This was what I was driving at and trying to express.

What you said to clarify the matter is not really any more clear, and surely there are likely times along the way in our BTC accumulation journey that we are going to need to reevaluate our BTC accumulation targets, so BTC accumulation is a bit of a moving target, even if we might have some general ideas along the way in regards to where we want to get to and how we plan to get there, we still likely are going to need to evaluate and reevaluate how much any plan that we set forth in our earlier BTC accumulation journey is staying within a ballpark of staying on target or staying within an acceptable range... which we set for ourselves and we adapt from time to time based on our particular circumstances (like the 9 factors), which also might be changing with the passage of time.

[edited out

I have watch my coment recieving quote upon quote for sometime now, but I guess I will have to reply and I will like you @JJG to throw more light to this, my question is this, does it mean that time frame or interval does not matter in bitcoin investment or accumulation process? because we have been discussing alot about setting out target or specific period of time we should invest, this has been lingering for long now, in prior to 4-10years and 20-30.  even though there are  other things to be considered like having a target of the amount of btc we should accumulate for a period of time, and age gap. but that does not mean we should neglect time frame or the number of years we plan to accumulate. because from different coment here I think the year doesn't matter anymore? according to my observations the years of accounting is just like an emagination, but the main Focus is just to have that mindset that " I need to accumulate like 0.2 btc" then with an imaginative thinking of calculating that if one should accumulate $15 every week multiply by 4 which is a months multiply by 12 months which is a year e.g
$15 *4week= $60per 1month
$60 * 12month = $720 1year
$720 * 20years = $14400
this means it will take either 20 year and above or below to accumulate this amount of btc. though along the line the accumulator may decide to lump sum a huge amount or decide to increase his discretion and weekly DCA and the years of accumulation may reduce to 10 years and the speculated time frame of 20years was not achieve, but the btc was achieved, doesn't mean we should totally deny that the year of accounting does not matter. What do you have to say about this? Because the matter is bit complicated.

There is nothing wrong with your framing of the matter, and surely you can ONLY calculate what is within your speculations that you will be able to achieve, and surely if you are able to increase your income or decrease your expenses, then your disposable income might go up, just as you mentioned, there may be times (from time to time) in which you are able to buy more bitcoin because you came across more money. so you may be able to lump sum and/or increase your DCA amount and/or even increase the amount of dollars that you might hold in reserves for buying the dip.

Through the years, you can adjust from time to time and learn from your mistakes or even keep your old planning papers (whether they are physical papers or you might have older Excel drafts), so probably the longer that you are accumulating bitcoin, the better you will get at it, whether you might start with a strict DCA strategy, but then maybe later you might incorporate some other strategies such as buying on dips and lump sum when you sometimes might end up getting some extra cashflows that increase your disposable income....and if your various other cashflow management, such as emergency fund, reserves and float might be in good shape that allows you to strategize how to employ your BTC buying (accumulation) in the three categories of consideration.. and even including sometimes resorting to HODL strategies in periods that you might run out of money and you might not be able to buy more.

[STT]

I dont mind saying mistakes, lots of people sold early because it was far more irregular back then.  I like to think I've learnt a bit or gained experience.   In any case BTC has to circulate and it is a positive its being used, traded.   Tons of people mined BTC back when it was more home user and sold it, with electric bills that was quite normal to do.

Your explanation sounds more of trading to me.

To defeat your enemy you must know your enemy, thats as succinctly as I could put it.  But its better I defer completely to Sun-Tzu

Im not recommending trading, I wouldnt do that any more then recommending the next horse to win a race.  There is a parallel in trading and gambling I agree, but people do want to discuss the market direction  and I think that is fair to discuss and whether people act with conviction to buy more or less is upto them.   I agree people should be doing DCA in growth assets & I would have agreed with that strategy even before BTC was invented.

 Majority of people wont be good at trading, if BTC is a bull market - it is, then there is a higher danger of missing out elevated by trading.   Iam interested in trading but nobody should be betting they are correct with all their BTC, its such a volatile market that would be very difficult to achieve .

[I_Anime]

I dont mind saying mistakes, lots of people sold early because it was far more irregular back then.  I like to think I've learnt a bit or gained experience.   In any case BTC has to circulate and it is a positive its being used, traded.   Tons of people mined BTC back when it was more home user and sold it, with electric bills that was quite normal to do.

Your explanation sounds more of trading to me.

To defeat your enemy you must know your enemy, thats as succinctly as I could put it.  But its better I defer completely to Sun-Tzu

Im not recommending trading, I wouldnt do that any more then recommending the next horse to win a race.  There is a parallel in trading and gambling I agree, but people do want to discuss the market direction  and I think that is fair to discuss and whether people act with conviction to buy more or less is upto them.   I agree people should be doing DCA in growth assets & I would have agreed with that strategy even before BTC was invented.

 Majority of people wont be good at trading, if BTC is a bull market - it is, then there is a higher danger of missing out elevated by trading.   Iam interested in trading but nobody should be betting they are correct with all their BTC, its such a volatile market that would be very difficult to achieve .

Trading is something i won`t recommend to anyone especially leverage trading (future trading), instead i prefer recommending bitcoin investment because the risk can be easily handled compare to that of trading . because that have strong zeal for trading would need to time to accumulate alot of knowledge about how trading work is like the opposite of investing in bitcoin because one don`t need any complex knowledge before investing in bitcoin .

" I need to accumulate like 0.2 btc" then with an imaginative thinking of calculating that if one should accumulate $15 every week multiply by 4 which is a months multiply by 12 months which is a year e.g
$15 *4week= $60per 1month
$60 * 12month = $720 1year
$720 * 20years = $14400
this means it will take either 20 year and above or below to accumulate this amount of btc. though along the line the accumulator may decide to lump sum a huge amount or decide to increase his discretion and weekly DCA and the years of accumulation may reduce to 10 years and the speculated time frame of 20years was not achieve, but the btc was achieved, doesn't mean we should totally deny that the year of accounting does not matter. What do you have to say about this? Because the matter is bit complicated.

well that is correct but it may not take up to 20 years for the investor to hit his goal, it boildown to his rate of accumulation  . like for instance as time goes he or she may choose to increase his dcaing amount which may help to speed up things or he may use some lumpsumming to back things up.

[Zackz5000]

Im not recommending trading, I wouldnt do that any more then recommending the next horse to win a race.  There is a parallel in trading and gambling I agree, but people do want to discuss the market direction  and I think that is fair to discuss and whether people act with conviction to buy more or less is upto them.   I agree people should be doing DCA in growth assets & I would have agreed with that strategy even before BTC was invented.

 Majority of people wont be good at trading, if BTC is a bull market - it is, then there is a higher danger of missing out elevated by trading.   Iam interested in trading but nobody should be betting they are correct with all their BTC, its such a volatile market that would be very difficult to achieve .

Well anybody can choose to do what they want to do but there is somuch risk in trading I wouldn't advise anybody to be interested in trading Bitcoin seeing Bitcoin as a tradable coin can be very wrong for Bitcoin is more profitable if hodl for long and not to trade in a short term perspective for there is no how you can compare those investors that held there Bitcoin for long and those that go for short term purpose for those that hold for long will be happier compare to short term traders.

[rachael9385]

I dont mind saying mistakes, lots of people sold early because it was far more irregular back then.  I like to think I've learnt a bit or gained experience.   In any case BTC has to circulate and it is a positive its being used, traded.   Tons of people mined BTC back when it was more home user and sold it, with electric bills that was quite normal to do.

Lot of people sold their Bitcoin because they didn't believe that Bitcoin is an asset that will worth more in future. Just like what LASZIO HANYECZ did on May 22 2010, and it was the first purchase that was made with Bitcoin as of then that's why pizza day is always celebrated every year in the Bitcoin world. However people who bought Bitcoin earlier 2010 didn't knew the importance of patience and holding that's why many of them sold their Bitcoin. If Laszio Hanyecz didn't used his Bitcoin to purchase pizza he would have been one of the people that has a lot of bitcoin because if we calculate 10,000 BTC with the current price we will have not less than $673,000K.
People who bought Bitcoin during the time Bitcoin was below $50 wouldn't have sold their Bitcoin if they knew that Bitcoin will someday reach this present ATH. And again, they sold their Bitcoin because they didn't have a believe that because will ever reach $100k.
Even if Bitcoin needs to be circulated, I don't think trading will ever help it.
It's best for people (mostly Bitcoin newbies) to invest and hold it for long term so that when they have made a lot of profits they might use it to purchase what they wants without exchanging if to fiat. Moreover, people are being adaptive to Bitcoin and truth be told that with a little time many companies might start using it to pay their workers. So I am trying to say that investors should hold for long term and trading Bitcoin won't help to circulate Bitcoin to everyone (however it's but choice).

[Kliss]

I dont mind saying mistakes, lots of people sold early because it was far more irregular back then.  I like to think I've learnt a bit or gained experience.   In any case BTC has to circulate and it is a positive its being used, traded.   Tons of people mined BTC back when it was more home user and sold it, with electric bills that was quite normal to do.

Your explanation sounds more of trading to me.

To defeat your enemy you must know your enemy, thats as succinctly as I could put it.  But its better I defer completely to Sun-Tzu

Im not recommending trading, I wouldnt do that any more then recommending the next horse to win a race.  There is a parallel in trading and gambling I agree, but people do want to discuss the market direction  and I think that is fair to discuss and whether people act with conviction to buy more or less is upto them.   I agree people should be doing DCA in growth assets & I would have agreed with that strategy even before BTC was invented.

 Majority of people wont be good at trading, if BTC is a bull market - it is, then there is a higher danger of missing out elevated by trading.   Iam interested in trading but nobody should be betting they are correct with all their BTC, its such a volatile market that would be very difficult to achieve .

Many people sold their bitcoin because they did not fully understood or grasp the potentials of bitcoin and the unique qualities compared to traditional assets ( Gold, silver, Real Estate stocks & bond etc). Bitcoin being the first of its kind ( digital currency) was an assets entirely different from others. It's decentralised nature made it different because it not determined or controlled by third party, the ability for transactions globally without a third party.

Trading is not an option especially for individuals with investment intentions, because of its too volatile and challenging. Buying and HODLing bitcoin is regarded as the best approach when it comes to bitcoin, it has lesser risk  especially when using a DCA strategy that is more comfortable to use in investing in Bitcoin.

[arwin100]

I dont mind saying mistakes, lots of people sold early because it was far more irregular back then.  I like to think I've learnt a bit or gained experience.   In any case BTC has to circulate and it is a positive its being used, traded.   Tons of people mined BTC back when it was more home user and sold it, with electric bills that was quite normal to do.

Your explanation sounds more of trading to me.

To defeat your enemy you must know your enemy, thats as succinctly as I could put it.  But its better I defer completely to Sun-Tzu

Im not recommending trading, I wouldnt do that any more then recommending the next horse to win a race.  There is a parallel in trading and gambling I agree, but people do want to discuss the market direction  and I think that is fair to discuss and whether people act with conviction to buy more or less is upto them.   I agree people should be doing DCA in growth assets & I would have agreed with that strategy even before BTC was invented.

 Majority of people wont be good at trading, if BTC is a bull market - it is, then there is a higher danger of missing out elevated by trading.   Iam interested in trading but nobody should be betting they are correct with all their BTC, its such a volatile market that would be very difficult to achieve .

Many people sold their bitcoin because they did not fully understood or grasp the potentials of bitcoin and the unique qualities compared to traditional assets ( Gold, silver, Real Estate stocks & bond etc).

Trading is not an option especially for individuals with investment intentions, because of its too volatile and challenging. Buying and HODLing bitcoin is regarded as the best approach when it comes to bitcoin, it has lesser risk  especially when using a DCA strategy that is more comfortable to use in investing in Bitcoin.

People will decide to do that actions especially if they are not well prepared on any unwanted circumstances. That's how important that we have emergency funds since it can ease up anything that give us worries especially when we are in need of immediate funds since we have money separated to use for any emergency situations. Then selling will never be their option its because they have proper planning towards their finances and separate everything they need to make everything work out especially on their investments.

Trading is not really a good option since it will just give them short comfort. But everything will collapsed especially if the market moves in different direction and it might cost them a lot of money especially if they can't handle those situation well. That's how good to hodl bitcoin since people could just ignore those kind of movement and they could able to focus implementing DCA method then be consistent on their accumulation process.

[Sim_card]

I dont mind saying mistakes, lots of people sold early because it was far more irregular back then.  I like to think I've learnt a bit or gained experience.   In any case BTC has to circulate and it is a positive its being used, traded.   Tons of people mined BTC back when it was more home user and sold it, with electric bills that was quite normal to do.

Your explanation sounds more of trading to me.

To defeat your enemy you must know your enemy, thats as succinctly as I could put it.  But its better I defer completely to Sun-Tzu

Im not recommending trading, I wouldnt do that any more then recommending the next horse to win a race.  There is a parallel in trading and gambling I agree, but people do want to discuss the market direction  and I think that is fair to discuss and whether people act with conviction to buy more or less is upto them.   I agree people should be doing DCA in growth assets & I would have agreed with that strategy even before BTC was invented.

 Majority of people wont be good at trading, if BTC is a bull market - it is, then there is a higher danger of missing out elevated by trading.   Iam interested in trading but nobody should be betting they are correct with all their BTC, its such a volatile market that would be very difficult to achieve .

Trading is something i won`t recommend to anyone especially leverage trading (future trading), instead i prefer recommending bitcoin investment because the risk can be easily handled compare to that of trading . because that have strong zeal for trading would need to time to accumulate alot of knowledge about how trading work is like the opposite of investing in bitcoin because one don`t need any complex knowledge before investing in bitcoin.

Trading is gambling and there is no need to gamble with your bitcoin because it is too precious to be used for gambling. People that are trading lack patience and want to get rich quick with trading forgetting that you will lose more when trading than making profit. Trading is a wrong way for anyone to think that he can use it to increase his bitcoin stash because it will be the opposite and at the end, you will regret your actions when bitcoin is very expensive to buy and you will blame yourself for not investing when you had the opportunity to invest and hodli.

New investors should say NO to trading and only focus on buying bitcoin with part of their discretionary income every week through DCA strategy consistent and hodli for long, while they keep on building and growing their bitcoin stash in order for them to reach their bitcoin target. Bitcoin investment will give long-term profit and that is more beneficial because it will reduce the risk of you running at loss due to the volatile nature of bitcoin.

[dansus021]

Just sharing my image here but in the short term my target is 80K



If you look at my chart My target is bitcoin going to retest previous support at 63-65K level and then BTC should break the 70-73K level and goes to 75K and from then if bitcoin can manage the price at that level then 80K is my closest target

[virasog]

Im not recommending trading, I wouldnt do that any more then recommending the next horse to win a race.  There is a parallel in trading and gambling I agree, but people do want to discuss the market direction  and I think that is fair to discuss and whether people act with conviction to buy more or less is upto them.   I agree people should be doing DCA in growth assets & I would have agreed with that strategy even before BTC was invented.

 Majority of people wont be good at trading, if BTC is a bull market - it is, then there is a higher danger of missing out elevated by trading.   Iam interested in trading but nobody should be betting they are correct with all their BTC, its such a volatile market that would be very difficult to achieve .

Well anybody can choose to do what they want to do but there is somuch risk in trading I wouldn't advise anybody to be interested in trading Bitcoin seeing Bitcoin as a tradable coin can be very wrong for Bitcoin is more profitable if hodl for long and not to trade in a short term perspective for there is no how you can compare those investors that held there Bitcoin for long and those that go for short term purpose for those that hold for long will be happier compare to short term traders.

When there is so much temptation in trading that people will continue doing it and will not totally stop it. So instead of advising people to stop trading it is better that people would invest more portion of their money in bitcoin and trade with small percentage of their portfolio. This way their urge for trading will also be fulfilled and their money will also be safe because even if they loose in trade the money won't be much as compared to their overall portfolio.
Finally spot trading is much better and safe as compared to the future trading because of lot of manipulations by the exhanges and the whales.

[Yucky]

If you look at my chart My target is bitcoin going to retest previous support at 63-65K level and then BTC should break the 70-73K level and goes to 75K and from then if bitcoin can manage the price at that level then 80K is my closest target

I'm not quite good at reading charts but what and so I might not really understand what the chat implying but I'm curious to know, what happens when Bitcoin gets to $75k? Would you sell your holding and hand you even bought enough Bitcoin to possibly sell at a new ATH? Would it make any difference if we see Bitcoin at $75k anytime soon?  In some way, I don't take any speculation that talks about Bitcoin getting just some few steps above the last ATH before a particular timeframe seriously. It most times appears as though the speculation is a mere guess that's just made with little practical analysis.

It's certain that Bitcoin will get to $75k like you're speculating and even gets to $100k and above in some months to come but it doesn't just stop there, when you make such speculation, how then do you prepare in anticipation of it? That's actually what really matters. Some people that knew about Bitcoin at the time it was as low as $500 are now regretting mainly because they never thought that Bitcoin will get to $70k, if they hard known, they would have bought Bitcoin very aggressively and would have hard a good profit at this point. As we all speculate and set targets regarding what we expect Bitcoin to get to at a certain time, the best preparation to do is to continue buying as much as we can afford and not just get ourselves all bored down with charts.

[Bravut]

If you look at my chart My target is bitcoin going to retest previous support at 63-65K level and then BTC should break the 70-73K level and goes to 75K and from then if bitcoin can manage the price at that level then 80K is my closest target

As we all speculate and set targets regarding what we expect Bitcoin to get to at a certain time, the best preparation to do is to continue buying as much as we can afford and not just get ourselves all bored down with charts.

Well said, Mate. As I would always say, Bitcoin is not a Tradable coin and also Trading it isn't sustainable in a long run.
We must view Bitcoin as an Asset, of which we take serious, Bitcoin might reach $100k as we anticipate, as an investor/Bitcoiner we need keep DCAing and also be open to the Market.

Trading isn't the right approach while investing in Bitcoin.

DCA, approach it with a calculated risk with a long term view and be disciplined about your investment.

[JayJuanGee]

I dont mind saying mistakes, lots of people sold early because it was far more irregular back then.  I like to think I've learnt a bit or gained experience.   In any case BTC has to circulate and it is a positive its being used, traded.   

There mere fact that bitcoin is traded, and even that trading is good for bitcoin's price discovery and liquidity does not mean that any of us should engage in trading, especially if we are looking out for our own interests in terms of attempting to gain value with the passage of time and to have more options because our portfolio ended up performing better through practices that largely started out with various forms of BTC accumulation through buying ONLY (or HODL) and did not use selling as a way to attempt to accumulate more bitcoin. Sure, once a guy (BTC accumulator) might reach some meaningful accumulation goal, then it surely may well start to be in his interest to either merely maintain his BTC stash or to start to sell BTC either with time-based methods (which might even be selling something like monthly) or price based methods, which might be selling certain amounts of his stash as the BTC price goes up.

Tons of people mined BTC back when it was more home user and sold it, with electric bills that was quite normal to do.

Of course we can consider all kinds of scenarios in which it is in the person's best interest to sell bitcoin, including situations in which persons might be earning income through bitcoin rather than through dollars.

I doubt that any of the situations that you describe are your own, STT.  You even admit that your fucking around with trading has likely made you worse off as compared to if you had just bought and HODL until you reached your BTC accumulation goals, and surely you would have likely had very good chances of reaching such BTC accumulation goals if you had not been fucking around with trading... you can take the $30 per week example that I already provided in my earlier post.. and yeah of course you can adjust the amount in terms of your own budget, and you will most likely be able to appreciate that a DCA strategy or even some kind of variation of that strategy that mostly focuses on BTC accumulation through buying and HODL (and not trying to accumulate BTC through selling) would have had put in you in way the fuck better situation than you are right now (where, based on your own admission) it seems that you still are not even getting close to reaching your BTC accumulation goal.. yet you still cannot resist trading and/or telling others that it is good to trade their BTC.

Your explanation sounds more of trading to me.

To defeat your enemy you must know your enemy, thats as succinctly as I could put it.  But its better I defer completely to Sun-Tzu

Hahahahaha  You are delusional considering that you are embarking in a heroic adventure through trading.

I had mentioned that you could limit your BTC trading account to 10% the size of your bitcoin holdings without cheating when you keep losing in your trading account by adding more from your HODLing/BTC building account.

Im not recommending trading, I wouldnt do that any more then recommending the next horse to win a race.  There is a parallel in trading and gambling I agree, but people do want to discuss the market direction  and I think that is fair to discuss and whether people act with conviction to buy more or less is upto them.   

You can still study the BTC market and even understand it without trading or maybe alternatively minimizing the quantity of trading if you cannot resist trading/gambling with your hard earned (accumulated) bitcoin.  You likely realize that it can take years and years and years to really build up a decently-sized bitcoin stash.. .

I agree people should be doing DCA in growth assets & I would have agreed with that strategy even before BTC was invented.

Well.  At least you admit this part.

Majority of people wont be good at trading,

It is more than a majority.. it is something like 90% or more of the people who are not good at trading... especially when it comes to something like BTC when there is already a bit of knowledge that it is both a pristine asset and also an asset that the odds are quite great (asymmetric bet to the upside) that it is going to be advantageous to hold it for the long term.

if BTC is a bull market - it is, then there is a higher danger of missing out elevated by trading.   

It does not even need to be a bull market to miss out on the few days each year in which you should have had been in an then if you are out or mostly out or largely out, then you do worse from having had been out during a time that the BTC price goes up (maybe only one or two days) but never ends up returning to the lower prices that you had sold some or all of your stash hoping to buy back cheaper... and people do not just sell 1% to 10% of their stash when they are fucking around with trading, they end up selling way more than 10% because they are contemplating the BIG gainz that do not end up happening, and then they end up either without bitcoin - because they are still waiting, waiting and waiting to reenter or they have to buy back at a higher price which also might not end up being a good idea.

Iam interested in trading but nobody should be betting they are correct with all their BTC, its such a volatile market that would be very difficult to achieve .

Nothing wrong with being interested in trading.. maybe with some other assets rather than bitcoin or just a small part of your BTC holdings, but you are not able to control yourself, so your interest in trading ultimately costs you economically and potentially in other ways in which you are distracted, stressed and maybe spending time in ways that are not really very good ways to use your time, yet surely how you spend your time (or how you want to spend your time) is within the balliwick/discretion of each of us... so I cannot really substitute my value judgement for yours in terms of your choices/preferences in how you spend your time or want to spend your time.

I dont mind saying mistakes, lots of people sold early because it was far more irregular back then.  I like to think I've learnt a bit or gained experience.   In any case BTC has to circulate and it is a positive its being used, traded.   Tons of people mined BTC back when it was more home user and sold it, with electric bills that was quite normal to do.

Your explanation sounds more of trading to me.

To defeat your enemy you must know your enemy, thats as succinctly as I could put it.  But its better I defer completely to Sun-Tzu

Im not recommending trading, I wouldnt do that any more then recommending the next horse to win a race.  There is a parallel in trading and gambling I agree, but people do want to discuss the market direction  and I think that is fair to discuss and whether people act with conviction to buy more or less is upto them.   I agree people should be doing DCA in growth assets & I would have agreed with that strategy even before BTC was invented.

 Majority of people wont be good at trading, if BTC is a bull market - it is, then there is a higher danger of missing out elevated by trading.   Iam interested in trading but nobody should be betting they are correct with all their BTC, its such a volatile market that would be very difficult to achieve .

Many people sold their bitcoin because they did not fully understood or grasp the potentials of bitcoin and the unique qualities compared to traditional assets ( Gold, silver, Real Estate stocks & bond etc). Bitcoin being the first of its kind ( digital currency) was an assets entirely different from others. It's decentralised nature made it different because it not determined or controlled by third party, the ability for transactions globally without a third party.

I largely agree with an explanation that there are (and were) a decent number of folks selling too much BTC too soon based on a failure/refusal to appreciate both the difference in bitcoin and that bitcoin is a paradigm-shifting asset... yet at the same time some of those who sold too much too soon might have recognized and/or appreciated the upside potential of bitcoin, yet they were lacking in creativity and skills in order to employ some kind of a meaningful cash management strategy that would allow a fair and/or reasonable hedging of their bet.  In other words, there are probably ways that guys could sell decent amounts of their BTC stash on the way up as long as they are not selling all or too much of it... and even if they sell some of it on the way up, they still could end up having significant and meaningful amounts of BTC in order to not be greatly prejudiced from such selling of their BTC on the way up.

The selling on the way up strategies work best when the BTC accumulator HODLer has already accumulated enough BTC and even better if he had accumulated more than enough BTC so that any selling of BTC is not really seriously impinging his overall BTC stash or a likely outcome that there would have had been ways to cash out in ways that his BTC stash is going up in value way more than the value that is being regularly, ongoingly and persistently withdrawn - which might vary depending on if time-based withdrawals are employed or time-based withdrawal strategies are carried out.

Trading is not an option especially for individuals with investment intentions, because of its too volatile and challenging. Buying and HODLing bitcoin is regarded as the best approach when it comes to bitcoin, it has lesser risk  especially when using a DCA strategy that is more comfortable to use in investing in Bitcoin.

I agree with you, yet for some reason a lot of people are still lured into trading.. .and they come to believe that there could be some advantage in trading.  Maybe people just have some desires to believe that they got the next price leg figured out?

Just sharing my image here but in the short term my target is 80K

If you look at my chart My target is bitcoin going to retest previous support at 63-65K level and then BTC should break the 70-73K level and goes to 75K and from then if bitcoin can manage the price at that level then 80K is my closest target

What you gong to do at $80k then?  How much you selling?  All of your BTC stash?  or some portion of it?  After you sell, then what you going to do?

Are you selling at any point prior to $80k, and if so how much?

Of course, changes might take place, then you have to change your plans, so your plan sounds all wonderfull right now, but if the UPs and DOWNs (the waves) are not playing out as expected, then what?

Your proposition sounds like a BIG so what, even if the BTC price might possibly end up playing out within your trajectory.. who would want to attempt to play such a thing?  Seems dumb (even short-sighted and a waste of time, money and energies) to try to play those kinds of possible price waves, even if it might end up being correct.  What odds are you giving it? Even as a base-case?  maybe at best, 30% to 40% odds to play out exactly as you described it?

Can you think of any other better strategy rather than planning to play waves that may or may not end up panning out?

Can you think of anything?  

Anything?

[Btcdeybodi]

I dont mind saying mistakes, lots of people sold early because it was far more irregular back then.  I like to think I've learnt a bit or gained experience.   In any case BTC has to circulate and it is a positive its being used, traded.   

There mere fact that bitcoin is traded, and even that trading is good for bitcoin's price discovery and liquidity does not mean that any of us should engage in trading, especially if we are looking out for our own interests in terms of attempting to gain value with the passage of time and to have more options because our portfolio ended up performing better through practices that largely started out with various forms of BTC accumulation through buying ONLY (or HODL) and did not use selling as a way to attempt to accumulate more bitcoin. Sure, once a guy (BTC accumulator) might reach some meaningful accumulation goal, then it surely may well start to be in his interest to either merely maintain his BTC stash or to start to sell BTC either with time-based methods (which might even be selling something like monthly) or price based methods, which might be selling certain amounts of his stash as the BTC price goes up.

That's it jayjuangee, you know some people don't actually realize that Bitcoin should be a store of value that's why they are blindly selling or trading their Bitcoins but anyone who is concerned about the future of Bitcoin will find need to accumulate and HODL till they have gotten a huge portfolio then they can decide to sell part of their hodling depending on how much stash they have got and the price level at that period of time when they must have made significant profits in their investments. It's not as though we should HODL forever but we should have a broad understanding that Bitcoin is an asset that tends to increase more in value when we hodl than trade or sell. Every Bitcoin investor has a target of how much they want to accumulate for long term profits so when they approach their desired investment goal, selling part of their Bitcoin will not be an issue anymore but for a beginner, all he needs do is to buy and HODL and never should trade his Bitcoins till he must have made huge accumulations in the future.

[Moreno233]

Just sharing my image here but in the short term my target is 80K



If you look at my chart My target is bitcoin going to retest previous support at 63-65K level and then BTC should break the 70-73K level and goes to 75K and from then if bitcoin can manage the price at that level then 80K is my closest target

Technical analysis skill might be good but it is one thing I do not think I will spend time learning because such knowledge is mostly needed by those who plan to buy at the perfect entry and sell at the peak, in other words, short time traders. So this type of knowledge might not really help my style of investment so much, which is HODL. This is what gives me rest of mind and enable me plan my life the way I want it to be in the future in respect of finance. I don't want to gamble with trading to avoid any form of regrets, having tried it in the past with bad experience.

I have come to understand that the best way to go about this is to buy and hold and not try to predict with accuracy how the market will go because that is nothing but a wish that will never come true. A simple weekly or daily moving average can easy shows if the market is is discounted and in a dip for buys and if it is not, this is all I need to make an entry for long term HODL.

[Hewlet]

Just sharing my image here but in the short term my target is 80K



If you look at my chart My target is bitcoin going to retest previous support at 63-65K level and then BTC should break the 70-73K level and goes to 75K and from then if bitcoin can manage the price at that level then 80K is my closest target

I have come to understand that the best way to go about this is to buy and hold and not try to predict with accuracy how the market will go because that is nothing but a wish that will never come true.

it's not even that in making your prediction or speculation about Bitcoin getting to a particular price at a set time you're bound to be wrong or that it's not possible that your speculation could be true. You could look at what's playing out in the market and speculate that Bitcoin will get to $100k which is what's at the core of this thread and that's just fine. It's not a wish that will never come to pass and we in a way are all expecting Bitcoin to get to $100k and even rise above that $100k height but that's not just the point that it ends with. Your speculation should be a driving force that causes you to remain consistent at your DCA. If your speculation isn't gearing up your drive to DCA consistently, then you're nothing better than those that knows nothing about Bitcoin or those that knows about Bitcoin but aren't investing in it at all.

A simple weekly or daily moving average can easy shows if the market is is discounted and in a dip for buys and if it is not, this is all I need to make an entry for long term HODL.

if what you need to know before buying is a discounted price or DIP within the day or weeks of your buy, then you're nowhere far from those relying on charts for their entry and exit point. If you're being realistic, what's the highest difference in Bitcoin price at the start of the day and at the end of the day or at the start of the week and at the end of the week?  would it place you at a better profit if you bought in the morning afternoon or evening or if you bought on Mondays or Sunday of your DCA week? If the amount you've allocated to be used in your DCA isn't much, regardless of the range of price you bought Bitcoin within the week, it wouldn't matter that much. If your weekly DCA amount is just $100 for instance and you're contemplating if you should buy at the first day of the week. if for instance Bitcoin was at $67k and you're waiting till the end of the week hoping it will get go back to $63k, does that place you at a better advantage even if your wish eventually works out? The highest difference you will likely see if you waited to buy at $63k instead of $67k wouldn't be more than $3 difference which isn't worth the wait. As long as you're buying for the long term, it's good no to cloud yourself with these little differences in price as an excuse for staying longer before eventually buying.

[Barikui1]

I dont mind saying mistakes, lots of people sold early because it was far more irregular back then.  I like to think I've learnt a bit or gained experience.   In any case BTC has to circulate and it is a positive its being used, traded.   

There mere fact that bitcoin is traded, and even that trading is good for bitcoin's price discovery and liquidity does not mean that any of us should engage in trading, especially if we are looking out for our own interests in terms of attempting to gain value with the passage of time and to have more options because our portfolio ended up performing better through practices that largely started out with various forms of BTC accumulation through buying ONLY (or HODL) and did not use selling as a way to attempt to accumulate more bitcoin. Sure, once a guy (BTC accumulator) might reach some meaningful accumulation goal, then it surely may well start to be in his interest to either merely maintain his BTC stash or to start to sell BTC either with time-based methods (which might even be selling something like monthly) or price based methods, which might be selling certain amounts of his stash as the BTC price goes up.

That's it jayjuangee, you know some people don't actually realize that Bitcoin should be a store of value that's why they are blindly selling or trading their Bitcoins but anyone who is concerned about the future of Bitcoin will find need to accumulate and HODL till they have gotten a huge portfolio then they can decide to sell part of their hodling depending on how much stash they have got and the price level at that period of time when they must have made significant profits in their investments. It's not as though we should HODL forever but we should have a broad understanding that Bitcoin is an asset that tends to increase more in value when we hodl than trade or sell. Every Bitcoin investor has a target of how much they want to accumulate for long term profits so when they approach their desired investment goal, selling part of their Bitcoin will not be an issue anymore but for a beginner, all he needs do is to buy and HODL and never should trade his Bitcoins till he must have made huge accumulations in the future.

Yea, you are very much correct on this and I also share the same sentiment as you bro, people don't actually knows that it's like shoot yourself in the foot when you are trading with your Bitcoin, because we all know how difficult trading is, and even though you win that particular  trade, it wouldn't make up for the losses you might have gotten before then, and  lt also would not solves all your problem if gotten right, so what's the essence of trading it in the first place?

So in my own opinion, holding is much more easier am better than trading your Bitcoin, and the best way to increase your stash of Bitcoin in your portfolio is to keeps on buy Bitcoin through the DCA accumulating strategy, till you are very much convince that the stash of Bitcoin in your possession already can make a very good fortune for you in the future, because the level of stash of Bitcoin in your possession is what determine how profitable you are going to be, so it's best we pay more attention by increasing the stash we have in our possession.

Lastly, in the future when Bitcoin has done 3x to 10x depending on how long you were able to hold, you can decide to be collecting profit, other than selling it all.

[EarnOnVictor]

Im not recommending trading, I wouldnt do that any more then recommending the next horse to win a race.  There is a parallel in trading and gambling I agree, but people do want to discuss the market direction  and I think that is fair to discuss and whether people act with conviction to buy more or less is upto them.   I agree people should be doing DCA in growth assets & I would have agreed with that strategy even before BTC was invented.

 Majority of people wont be good at trading, if BTC is a bull market - it is, then there is a higher danger of missing out elevated by trading.   Iam interested in trading but nobody should be betting they are correct with all their BTC, its such a volatile market that would be very difficult to achieve .

Well anybody can choose to do what they want to do but there is somuch risk in trading I wouldn't advise anybody to be interested in trading Bitcoin seeing Bitcoin as a tradable coin can be very wrong for Bitcoin is more profitable if hodl for long and not to trade in a short term perspective for there is no how you can compare those investors that held there Bitcoin for long and those that go for short term purpose for those that hold for long will be happier compare to short term traders.

You sound like an inexperienced trader. Though it's good advice if one can not handle trading, investment is less risky, so why not opt for it? Still, you do not have to discourage people, especially with Bitcoin trading which I deem to be one of the easiest assets to be traded in the financial market. But the issue with people is that they would want to trade Bitcoin in the regular way, that's off. Any margined products will always be risky, which is why one may plan the trading according to the nature of Bitcoin.

It's a well-known fact that Bitcoin moves in season/cycle, so why not wait till a bearish season ends and buy your Bitcoin on the futures market with the right plan and management? This trade is set to be left alone for at least a year and many months. Any trader who can do this regularly will not have any reason to be sad about Bitcoin trading, it's only the short-term traders who have enough to worry about.