Biden resurrects 30% crypto mining tax in new budget proposal

[pinggoki]

I'm starting to like Trump more and more. Although he is a Republican. 

Good luck, America! God help us all.

You're just saying that because there's no better or alternative option, and with how the things are run in the US government, I think that a businessman is the right person to do the thing, maybe if people start electing the right people and not leaving any of them behind when it matters the most, maybe we would see something different and we'd see that the option wouldn't be just Trump or Biden and Old Joe Biden really needs to retire, there's no way that I'd want an old man that probably doesn't know how to use his email to be running a country that for better or worse, would be a burden for the next generation.

Man, they're taking a bit of a slow stroll in increasing the debt ceiling it seems that they're planning to do this kind of thing, that's probably the only reason that I can think of why they're considering reopening this regulation on bitcoin miners, no way that they've planned this through though, that's probably the most appropriate thing to say, "God help us all!"

[stompix]

The misunderstanding is in the companies that produce or buy it off-gird, the tax will be aimed at the companies that do that off-gird but are not limiting their production to the said mine, otherwise you would have nothing to tax since most large farms are directly connected to huge powerplants that have a direct contact with them. That's why the term particular is here:
" for example by using the output of a particular electricity generating plant,"

explain this statement:

The tax would also apply to crypto mining firms that generate their own electricity.

put up solar panels to run your mine, you pay the tax. because you're generating your own electricity. that's what it says to me.

I have already explained it!
You are not purchasing and you are not owning an energy generation plant!
Also, I've quoted the proposal not the article of a biased about the proposal!

That thing was written to close a loophole that all big players use, go to any of those and check their reports, mara, riot , core and you will see they are using grid plus private generation, but that private generation is from a powerplant that also resells excess energy to the grid.

I just love how a miner has to talk sense into some guys that don't even mine but are outraged by some headlines!

I can give you the perfect example why this whole mess started for it just look for Greenridge, a powerplant owned by atlas llc, it turned from a powerplant into a power plant plus bitcoin miner, then suddenly the company that owned just an electricity generation powerplant in NY, started buying datacenters in texas! You end up with electricity produced in NY that suddenly sells extra energy when the grip is at its limit in Texas  , but they are just a bitcoin miner, and they use their electricity for private stuff, but they also sell it...

Want another example:
Good, look at how riot cashed in millions:

Originally inked in 2020, and expanded twice in 2022, Riot currently has a 345 MW Power Supply Agreement with TXU Energy Retail Company which runs through 20301. Under this contract, nearly half of the facility’s electricity needs are provided at a fixed price of $35 per megawatt hour (MWh).Alternatively, if spot electricity prices are higher than what the company can earn by mining bitcoin, Riot can “re-sell” the electricity back into the market and take the spread between the market rate and its fixed cost. Under its Power Supply Agreement, these profits are not directly distributed to the company but are credited towards its future power bill - offsetting its electricity cost.

Riot is paying 3 cents per kwh, (for power it "produces")

Even though Riot does not produce electricity, its Power Supply Agreement effectively allows the company to earn a similar profit profile as a 345MW peaking generator through its energy re-sales

but is magically allowed in the (ERCOT) Demand Response program, because although not a producer it has a contract that makes it the owner of 345MW.

This is the shit that is going to be taxed, not the....lol "mom and pop" miners...
Again, when you have large companies paying 2.3 like Core and 2.8 cents per kwh like Mara, you should stop preaching about the apocalypse!

If Biden wants to lose the election this a great way to do it. 14% of Americans own crypto, with closer to 20% in states like California.
That is a significant voting block with crypto being a major topic of discussion in the presidential debates. The last thing Americans need are more taxes.

Yeah and in Theory 20% of Indians own crypto and 25% of Nigerians do so, yet I haven't seen one protest in the streets why they are enforcing bans on exchanges and ip bans.

If 14% that's 40 million let's say Americans own crypto 39 million of them don't even care about Bitcoin being pos of pow, they care about the numbers, just think for a moment, with 400k transactions a day it would take 100 days just for one tx per capita if the blockchain would be dedicated to Americans only.

Nothing will happen, and nobody is going to march in the streets for the miners!
Aso, another reality check, I'm fed up with the shit people throw at miners here, that we manipulate the fees, that we mine ordinals, that we dump coins, all that crap, I can't wait for the same people that accused miners of everything taking their banners and demanding that miners in the us would need protection from extra taxation. I have my popcorn ready!

[Cookdata]

the problem is, such a small percentage of people are going to be affected by this law in the usa that the voice of the miners is going to be so small as to be negligible. on the other hand, lets say biden was trying to tax uber/lyft drivers an additional 30% on their electricity use of their electric car well then that would be a different story. the drivers would raise a huge stink about that and a bazillion journalists would be writing stories on it like this was the gravest injustice ever known to man...

Comparism of Uber drivers and miners doesn't make sense because their gross revenue is unmatch, not even close and the energy consumption isn't the same. The last time I check about the US tax is base on the amount you earn, if you earn small amount the government will likely charge you less and if you earned high amount, you are likely to get high tax because even with amenities, the reach tend to get special treatment when it comes to allocation of these amenities.

The Comparism should have been between the stock investors and the miners and when you check what stock and other investments tax charges the US government collect from these people, it's likely the same with miners though it's less for minor investors. The US is known for heavy taxing and that's why a lot of investors are running from the country, some of her citizens don't bring their money back to the country because of these taxes.

[legiteum]

If Biden wants to lose the election this a great way to do it. 14% of Americans own crypto, with closer to 20% in states like California.

That is a significant voting block with crypto being a major topic of discussion in the presidential debates. The last thing Americans need are more taxes.

So sick of Biden. That is all he is good for is raising taxes on everyday working people.

What those 14% are going to understand is that the value of their holdings increase by 500% under Biden.

Obviously there are a lot of people who will simply hate Biden for the typical reasons of polarization these days, but if all you care about is your crypto going up in price, Biden is your man.

[larry_vw_1955]

I have already explained it!
You are not purchasing and you are not owning an energy generation plant!
Also, I've quoted the proposal not the article of a biased about the proposal!

Read this again:

The tax would also apply to crypto mining firms that generate their own electricity.

That thing was written to close a loophole that all big players use,

no that's not what it was written for. the government wants to reduce mining activity and the harms that go along with it be they environmental or something else.
that's what the revenue proposal says.

Aso, another reality check, I'm fed up with the shit people throw at miners here, that we manipulate the fees, that we mine ordinals, that we dump coins, all that crap, I can't wait for the same people that accused miners of everything taking their banners and demanding that miners in the us would need protection from extra taxation. I have my popcorn ready!

no one is criticising miners. but i think a reasonable concern is that bitcoin miners drive up electricity costs for retail power company customers. and i am sure they don't appreciate it...

[dezoel]

I would guess that we are talking about taxing because no matter what you are spending your money on, remember that there will always be government need for more money, and they will always use their taxing power to get that money from you. They do not like poor people because they can't tax them, in fact they hate welfare people even more because not only they can't tax them but also they have to give their taxes to the poor.

They love rich people though, they take their money directly into their own pockets, and not even tax them, that way the rich pay less taxes, and the politicians get richer. So, if you want them to not tax the mining companies, just bribe them, that way instead of paying a collective 100 million more dollars on tax, pay 50 million in bribery and you will be fine.

[Haunebu]

Yet another proposal thread being portrayed like it will definitely become a law in the future. Personally, I don't think this particular proposal will be approved though we never know.

Also, it's hilarious seeing naive people think that Trump would magically care about crypto investors. Most government heads will always try their best to suppress the power of crypto.

[leonair]

https://cointelegraph.com/news/crypto-mining-tax-united-states-budget

United States President Joe Biden has revived the idea of a 30% tax on electricity used by crypto miners in his budget proposal for 2025.

Lets just admit it. Biden is never going to try and stop taxing people involved in bitcoin.   Anyone that uses bitcoin here in the usa is directly accountable to the IRS even more than someone that owns a room full of firearms. enough said.

30% tax is too much for crypto mining because the mining speed is very low now so if a miner pays 30% tax to the government on electricity bill and other processing machine cost then I don't know if that miner can make profit or not.  I have never mined so I don't know much about the mining rate.  So I can't make an accurate estimate of how much profit a miner would have if he paid 30% of his mining tax to the government.

[larry_vw_1955]

30% tax is too much for crypto mining because the mining speed is very low now so if a miner pays 30% tax to the government on electricity bill and other processing machine cost then I don't know if that miner can make profit or not.  I have never mined so I don't know much about the mining rate.  So I can't make an accurate estimate of how much profit a miner would have if he paid 30% of his mining tax to the government.

the goal of the government in doing something like this would be to curtail mining activities. to make it less profitable, if at all. sure they want to put some people out of business. that's the entire goal.

Yet another proposal thread being portrayed like it will definitely become a law in the future.

this is the 2nd time it is being proposed apparently. notice the word "resurrects" in the title. that means its back on the table again. and again and again and again until eventually something happens. it may not be 30% but we can't just let miners drive up electricity costs for residential consumers and legitimate businesses. whether you consider mining a legitimate business, the government doesn't.

[Hispo]

If the Biden administration was clever on their approach towards Bitcoin and other decentralized assets they would have realized how convenient it is for them to keep harsh power within the United States instead scaring away miners onto other countries which could be political adversaries of the Biden administration or even against the ideals of the American democracy.
It is all speculation, but it could be Biden and the Federal Reserve in general do not wish for the USA to harbor good sentiments for Bitcoin, because it would be in detriment of the future adoption of the CBDC (decentralized digital currency of the USA).

Not long ago, much of the hashrate power was centralized in China, and there were some people worried about it and how the communist government of China could take advantage of it, since then the hashrate has moved to other different countries and many which are more democratic. It is a pity the government of the United States is too stubborn to see Bitcoin and the cryptocurrency is part of the future.

[spectre71]

Well they don't enough power yet, but send them El Salvador!

[coolcoinz]

If Biden wants to lose the election this a great way to do it. 14% of Americans own crypto, with closer to 20% in states like California.

That is a significant voting block with crypto being a major topic of discussion in the presidential debates. The last thing Americans need are more taxes.

So sick of Biden. That is all he is good for is raising taxes on everyday working people.

Do you know what socialists want the most? Your money.
They will make up all those new taxes, the way they try to do it in the EU. Your money in the bank is taxed more than once, because you have inflation (which is a tax on savings) and if you get interest on your money that interest is additionally taxed, because socialists think you've made money. This is their simple math - he had a gain, he made money. It doesn't matter that he got 5% a year and inflation is 6% - according to them the man is in profit.

I feel like these democrats, which are basically socialists, have no idea how the market works. You keep taxes low, everybody will pay it, but keep it high and people will move somewhere else and you won't get anything.

[Cryptomultiplier]

It seems that the way the government of some countries with the U.S  being a major culprit, have opted to treat the issue of cryptocurrencies being adopted and accepted for transaction and payments as a serious matter, by taxing it. By taxing them more on utility usage and regulating their affairs online.

Last week a mining company in same U.S took out its old BTC mining machines to Colorado springs where they should undergo refurbishment and possibly resale to interested parties as well as companies hoping to move to more locale environment where electricity and other utilities necessary to manage a BTC mining farm is economically sustainable.

Am sure why the U.S is going hard on regulating and taxing Crypto users is also their concern of crypto being a tool for sponsorship of terrorism and money laundering schemes by top executives.

[uneng]

30% tax is too much for crypto mining because the mining speed is very low now so if a miner pays 30% tax to the government on electricity bill and other processing machine cost then I don't know if that miner can make profit or not.  I have never mined so I don't know much about the mining rate.  So I can't make an accurate estimate of how much profit a miner would have if he paid 30% of his mining tax to the government.

the goal of the government in doing something like this would be to curtail mining activities. to make it less profitable, if at all. sure they want to put some people out of business. that's the entire goal.

Indeed. When governments create abusive regulations like that, it means they want to curb people from certain practices, instead of directly regulating a ban or censorship over it, what would eventually bring criticisms and accusations against the government of being a tyrannical one, which doesn't respect individual freedom of its citizens. Anyway, why is US government so worried about the electricity usage for crypto mining purposes? Are they going to face any energy crisis if americans start using their power to mine crypto in large scale?

Otherwise, why would they want some people out of the business?

[AmoreJaz]

30% tax is too much for crypto mining because the mining speed is very low now so if a miner pays 30% tax to the government on electricity bill and other processing machine cost then I don't know if that miner can make profit or not.  I have never mined so I don't know much about the mining rate.  So I can't make an accurate estimate of how much profit a miner would have if he paid 30% of his mining tax to the government.

the goal of the government in doing something like this would be to curtail mining activities. to make it less profitable, if at all. sure they want to put some people out of business. that's the entire goal.

Indeed. When governments create abusive regulations like that, it means they want to curb people from certain practices, instead of directly regulating a ban or censorship over it, what would eventually bring criticisms and accusations against the government of being a tyrannical one, which doesn't respect individual freedom of its citizens. Anyway, why is US government so worried about the electricity usage for crypto mining purposes? Are they going to face any energy crisis if americans start using their power to mine crypto in large scale?

Otherwise, why would they want some people out of the business?

Maybe they are thinking that one way to curb down the number of miners is to charge them with such high tax. They may possibly change their mind if they are seeing the benefit of getting the biggest hashpower in bitcoin or crypto mining. Right now, they are not seeing it yet.

But you know miners, they will always find a better place to do their mining activities. Just look at China when they banned miners, some went to neighboring countries, or Canada and other friendly countries where tax are quite low.

Looking at the current btc mining map, I don't know how China is still getting high hash power despite the ban. Seems that they are not very successful in implementing their ban protocol

https://chainbulletin.com/bitcoin-mining-map/

[legiteum]

His capital gains tax increases are pretty crazy as well. This is definitely something to keep an eye on. A lot of Bitcoin holders could be wise to sell in December if he is really going to more than double the capital gains tax. I don’t think he will and even if he did I think Trump will get in and reverse all Biden’s craziness. Still something to watch.

Yeah definitely sell before Biden gets elected. Think about how much money you would have made off that trade if you did that last time--when Bitcoin went up 500% during Biden's presidency.

[larry_vw_1955]

Yeah definitely sell before Biden gets elected. Think about how much money you would have made off that trade if you did that last time--when Bitcoin went up 500% during Biden's presidency.

but inflation also went up during his presidency. when it costs $20 for a burger and frieds, you know you're doing bad.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/mcdonalds-18-big-mac-meal-181159814.html

minimum wage in the usa i already hear people grumbling about how it needs to be $50 per hour.


but back to bitcoin 30% excise tax proposal. not only would miners pay the 30% tax on their electricity which was a cost of obtaining their bitcoin block reward but they also have to pay normal taxes on that bitcoin too! Biden is trying to double dip on them for sure.   bad thing about this 30% tax is it is money straight out of their pockets NO MATTER WHAT. no matter if they mine any bitcoin or not. they get to pay extra just for trying.

[legiteum]

Yeah definitely sell before Biden gets elected. Think about how much money you would have made off that trade if you did that last time--when Bitcoin went up 500% during Biden's presidency.

but inflation also went up during his presidency. when it costs $20 for a burger and frieds, you know you're doing bad.

Inflation wasn't 500% in the last 4 years. Get real. It was 10% or so overall. Slight difference.

[bbc.reporter]

Yet another proposal thread being portrayed like it will definitely become a law in the future. Personally, I don't think this particular proposal will be approved though we never know.

Also, it's hilarious seeing naive people think that Trump would magically care about crypto investors. Most government heads will always try their best to suppress the power of crypto.

I predict that if the Donald Trump will win the presidency of America, his administration will certainly treat the cryptospace much better than the Biden administration has treated this. The Donald will want to regulate this, however, it will not be similar to how uncle Gary has done where he is doing regulation through enforcement. The Donald's tactic of regulating the cryptospace will be more diplomatic and fair. We can be quite sure of this.

[larry_vw_1955]

Inflation wasn't 500% in the last 4 years. Get real. It was 10% or so overall. Slight difference.

not 10% in 4 years, maybe 10% per year. working people want to see raises of at least 10% per year in case you didn't know. and that means in 10 years, $20 per hour will need to be about $45 per hour for entry level positions. and why shouldn't they be entitled to that? when everything is going up in price, rents, food, utilities...that's why they had to put in rent controls in california due to greedy landlords. but those landlords are going to raise the rents every chance they can legally get anyway. whatever that might be.

back on topic though, an interesting and probably relevant analogous situation is the MTA tax in NYC alot of people are upset about having to pay a fee to come into manhatten in their car. just like miners, they are contributing to a negative environment so they should be forced to pay a fee for that. where i disagree is if someone is using renewable energy as in using THEIR OWN SOLAR PANELS to mine bitcoin though.. but if you have an electric car, you're still congesting the city so you should still have to pay.