IRS FORM 1040 "Digital Assets

[philipma1957]

The biggest issue the new $10000 rule is if you live in America and receive 10000 or more in 1 send you need to kyc the sender.

This can be a real problem for anyone that mines on a solo mining pool.

If I were to win a block on ck solo pool I have 2 weeks to report that I received it. and I have to give kyc on the sender which is ck solo pool.

if the pool does not issue  kyc for itself I have a compliance issue.

even if I report the 6.25 coins and pay income tax on them I will not have complied with the new law which insists that I the receiver kyc and id the sender.

For now I do not solo mine any more to avoid this issue.

I do not mind paying the tax if I hit a block but if the pool does not provide me with the correct info I am fucked even if I report the 6.25 coins.

[1714556402]

1714556402

[zasad@]

There is no such thing as "American Bitcoin addresses". Miners can only mine valid transactions, which means your own wallet would have to create an "IRS change" output. That's not going to happen.

why wouldn't it happen? it could technically happen. all the governments of the world unite to form a special multisig bitcoin address where every transaction has to have a "change" output to that address for paying taxes. then the governments would force bitcoin to put that into the consensus rules that a transaction had to have that change address and it had to be XX% of the total sum of all utxo inputs to the transaction. very simple. if the governments got together and demanded that then it would get baked into the protocol. because the alternative would be prosecution.

this is a better way because then no one has to worry about paying taxes on anything bitcoin related. it would all happen automatically. the government could force the same thing on other blockchains if they got big enough like ethereum. very simple way to make sure that people pay their taxes.

A better way to control citizens is to implant a chip in a person's brain, then the government will know everything about its citizens.

____
Colleagues, I don't understand you. If Russia will have such stupid laws, no one will implement them. If a miner needs to know the sender's kyc, he will mine to a new address, and then think how to legalize these coins, if necessary.

And if tomorrow a law comes out that will oblige all crypto users to pass a lie detector, where they will ask about taxes paid, will you also go to comply?  

When will your patience run out and you will say that I am ready to pay taxes and I pay them as a law-abiding citizen, and if you do not like my transactions, let blockchain analysis companies and other specialists do it?

[LoyceV]

all the governments of the world unite

Lol. Right after they sign off on world peace.

[zasad@]

all the governments of the world unite

Lol. Right after they sign off on world peace.

Somebody reads or watches a lot of fantastic

[larry_vw_1955]

The biggest issue the new $10000 rule is if you live in America and receive 10000 or more in 1 send you need to kyc the sender.

This can be a real problem for anyone that mines on a solo mining pool.

If I were to win a block on ck solo pool I have 2 weeks to report that I received it. and I have to give kyc on the sender which is ck solo pool.

if the pool does not issue  kyc for itself I have a compliance issue.

even if I report the 6.25 coins and pay income tax on them I will not have complied with the new law which insists that I the receiver kyc and id the sender.

For now I do not solo mine any more to avoid this issue.

I do not mind paying the tax if I hit a block but if the pool does not provide me with the correct info I am fucked even if I report the 6.25 coins.

the irs really is screwing bitcoin miners. no doubt about that. turning them into criminals even when they try and do the right thing but they can't because it's impossible to comply with rules made by ignoramouses....people who don't even understand bitcoin and how it works.

that's why i think bitcoin needs to have some type of anonymizing feature where no one can know anything about what anyone owns until it literally gets cashed out but even once it is cashed out it is still untraceable so no history of when or how or anything. so you can declare the income when it's convenient for you and not a second sooner. no not monero...

Lol. Right after they sign off on world peace.

so you don't think its possible for some one or some thing to hijack bitcoin and force a certain percentage of the transaction inputs to go to a certain address? the antichrist could probably do that but i'm not sure if he has come yet but the bible talks about the antichrist. he could probably do it.  

[LoyceV]

so you don't think its possible for some one or some thing to hijack bitcoin and force a certain percentage of the transaction inputs to go to a certain address?

Nope. That's the good thing about Bitcoin: nobody can control it.

the antichrist could probably do that but i'm not sure if he has come yet but the bible talks about the antichrist. he could probably do it.  

I already thought you're trolling with the statements you make. Now I'm sure.

[larry_vw_1955]

Nope. That's the good thing about Bitcoin: nobody can control it.

i understand that no one can control it but it's not like they're not trying to.

I already thought you're trolling with the statements you make. Now I'm sure.

i didn't say i believe the antichrist is actually something that will happen but he is a theoretical concept. but if such an entity ever came into power i can guarantee you that people that used bitcoin would be on the very top of his list to eradicate. because if they are using something he can't control then they can
"buy and sell". do you think the antichrist would want people being able to buy and sell without his approval? of course not....

[zasad@]

so you don't think its possible for some one or some thing to hijack bitcoin and force a certain percentage of the transaction inputs to go to a certain address?

Nope. That's the good thing about Bitcoin: nobody can control it.

the antichrist could probably do that but i'm not sure if he has come yet but the bible talks about the antichrist. he could probably do it.  

I already thought you're trolling with the statements you make. Now I'm sure.

I agree that the government cannot control Bitcoin, but it can perfectly control financial systems. In my country, you can buy gold, silver, platinum and other precious metals in the bank app, and you can also buy company shares. This opportunity did not appear yesterday; it has already been working for more than 5 years. I think that in a couple of years Bitcoin will appear there, and then other cryptocurrencies. And people will not use real bitcoins, but will use custodial services.

[larry_vw_1955]

I think that in a couple of years Bitcoin will appear there, and then other cryptocurrencies. And people will not use real bitcoins, but will use custodial services.

the IRS would love to make that a law that people can't hold bitcoin in non-custodial wallets. if they could require that then it would make it easier for them to monitor peoples' bitcoin holdings. because the custodial services could snitch on them. the IRS loves making third party platforms snitch on their users. just one of the ways the IRS keeps people under their thumb. snitch on you neighbor turn them in and get a tax credit. report them for using bitcoin if you suspect they are not declaring those capital gains.  

[zasad@]

I think that in a couple of years Bitcoin will appear there, and then other cryptocurrencies. And people will not use real bitcoins, but will use custodial services.

the IRS would love to make that a law that people can't hold bitcoin in non-custodial wallets. if they could require that then it would make it easier for them to monitor peoples' bitcoin holdings. because the custodial services could snitch on them. the IRS loves making third party platforms snitch on their users. just one of the ways the IRS keeps people under their thumb. snitch on you neighbor turn them in and get a tax credit. report them for using bitcoin if you suspect they are not declaring those capital gains.  

We live in the age of digital technology and AI. It used to be that the IRS only controlled income and audited income taxes.
In my country it worked like this. I have 0 taxes, but I have several expensive apartments, houses, premium cars and I vacation abroad 4 times a year. Now IRS checks expenses and this is a more correct way to control not only cryptocurrencies but any other activity for which a citizen does not pay taxes.

[larry_vw_1955]

We live in the age of digital technology and AI. It used to be that the IRS only controlled income and audited income taxes.
In my country it worked like this. I have 0 taxes, but I have several expensive apartments, houses, premium cars and I vacation abroad 4 times a year. Now IRS checks expenses and this is a more correct way to control not only cryptocurrencies but any other activity for which a citizen does not pay taxes.

follow the money. a tactic as old as time itself. it doesn't catch every illegal thing though but i would much prefer that way over placing a burden over EVERYONE and making them report to uncle sam every year.

i think i know why satoshi is not coming back and it is because if he did, the irs would sue him immediately and try and force him to give up some of his bitcoin. some means probably hundreds of millions of dollars. even though he never sold anything, they would want their cut immediately. just how it is. that's why satoshi wouldn't want to come back into the public eye. if i was him anyway...

also just a heads up to everyone in the usa. time to file your taxes by april 15 and tell the irs how naughty you've been with bitcoin and how much bitcoin taxes you need to pay.   i suppose there could even be penalties for not making estimated payments on your bitcoin profits but we won't worry about that.

[philipma1957]

We live in the age of digital technology and AI. It used to be that the IRS only controlled income and audited income taxes.
In my country it worked like this. I have 0 taxes, but I have several expensive apartments, houses, premium cars and I vacation abroad 4 times a year. Now IRS checks expenses and this is a more correct way to control not only cryptocurrencies but any other activity for which a citizen does not pay taxes.

follow the money. a tactic as old as time itself. it doesn't catch every illegal thing though but i would much prefer that way over placing a burden over EVERYONE and making them report to uncle sam every year.

i think i know why satoshi is not coming back and it is because if he did, the irs would sue him immediately and try and force him to give up some of his bitcoin. some means probably hundreds of millions of dollars. even though he never sold anything, they would want their cut immediately. just how it is. that's why satoshi wouldn't want to come back into the public eye. if i was him anyway...

also just a heads up to everyone in the usa. time to file your taxes by april 15 and tell the irs how naughty you've been with bitcoin and how much bitcoin taxes you need to pay.   i suppose there could even be penalties for not making estimated payments on your bitcoin profits but we won't worry about that.

I filed and extension till oct 15th.

the biggest issue for a miner is getting a large hit mining and having the pool say fuck you I won't give you reporting info. I sent you blank coins that is all I need to do. If you live in the USA it will be a problem even if you mention how many coins you got.


I mine here

https://pool.laurentiapool.org/#/work

if we hit a block I will get over $10000 and will need to give the pools reporting info. I know the pool runner and he will give it to me. So I still mine there.

[larry_vw_1955]

I filed and extension till oct 15th.

that's all well and good but:


A tax extension gives filers an extra six months to file tax returns.
While an extension gives you more time to file, it doesn't extend the date to pay your tax liability if you owe money.
It's free to file for a tax extension, but you could face penalties if you fail to pay some or all of what you owe the IRS.

https://www.businessinsider.com/personal-finance/how-to-file-tax-extension

the irs doesn't seem to care about the paperwork so much as they do about collecting their dues.

the biggest issue for a miner is getting a large hit mining and having the pool say fuck you I won't give you reporting info. I sent you blank coins that is all I need to do. If you live in the USA it will be a problem even if you mention how many coins you got.

then that means the pool doesn't even report their payouts to the IRS so woudln't that mean you wouldn't need to either? they're not going to know about it unless you do some huge cashout but if you keep it in bitcoin and don't transfer to fiat i don't see how they could know anything.

I mine here

https://pool.laurentiapool.org/#/work

if we hit a block I will get over $10000 and will need to give the pools reporting info. I know the pool runner and he will give it to me. So I still mine there.

cool.

[zasad@]

We live in the age of digital technology and AI. It used to be that the IRS only controlled income and audited income taxes.
In my country it worked like this. I have 0 taxes, but I have several expensive apartments, houses, premium cars and I vacation abroad 4 times a year. Now IRS checks expenses and this is a more correct way to control not only cryptocurrencies but any other activity for which a citizen does not pay taxes.

follow the money. a tactic as old as time itself. it doesn't catch every illegal thing though but i would much prefer that way over placing a burden over EVERYONE and making them report to uncle sam every year.

i think i know why satoshi is not coming back and it is because if he did, the irs would sue him immediately and try and force him to give up some of his bitcoin. some means probably hundreds of millions of dollars. even though he never sold anything, they would want their cut immediately. just how it is. that's why satoshi wouldn't want to come back into the public eye. if i was him anyway...

also just a heads up to everyone in the usa. time to file your taxes by april 15 and tell the irs how naughty you've been with bitcoin and how much bitcoin taxes you need to pay.   i suppose there could even be penalties for not making estimated payments on your bitcoin profits but we won't worry about that.

Keeping track of all citizens is very expensive and impossible even for a state-of-the-art IRS like in the US. I think some users do not agree with such requirements and are looking for ways not to declare their assets in the US. There are many offshore areas near the US where it is more cost effective to incorporate and declare your assets with minimal taxes.

[larry_vw_1955]

Keeping track of all citizens is very expensive and impossible even for a state-of-the-art IRS like in the US.

that's exactly what the irs does though. keep track of every single person.

I think some users do not agree with such requirements and are looking for ways not to declare their assets in the US.

they can move to another country and renounce their american citizenship but that's about all they can legally do. look what happened to this guy:

https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/crypto-tax-evasion-is-just-tax-evasion-2778390/

Tax evasion is as old as tax collection, so it is no surprise that there is tax evasion related to crypto. In a recent case, United States v. Frank Ahlgren III, Federal prosecutors allege that between 2017 and 2019, the defendant failed report gains from the sale of appreciated bitcoin on his federal income tax returns. If the allegations are proven beyond a reasonable doubt, this case is tax evasion in its plainest form.

he wasn't laundering money or doing anything illegal just trying to buy and sell bitcoin apparently. now he's being treated like a criminal. i wonder if they'll throw him in jail.

There are many offshore areas near the US where it is more cost effective to incorporate and declare your assets with minimal taxes.

if you're american, you have to declare your crypto assets to the irs. simple as that. when you sell them, when you receive them. there's no exceptions no forming some foreign company to shield your identity, none of that.

[zasad@]

Keeping track of all citizens is very expensive and impossible even for a state-of-the-art IRS like in the US.

that's exactly what the irs does though. keep track of every single person.

This is impossible. I'll tell you an example for my city with a population of one million people. There are 5-6 tax offices in the city, and only 6-7 inspectors(in every tax office) are involved in checking the income of ordinary citizens who are not businessmen or self-employed.
They check declarations that are submitted when selling cars, apartments and other expensive movable and immovable property, check inheritance and other facts. But they only work with information provided by state registration authorities or citizens themselves.
These inspectors do not have the time or ability to check crypto users who use fiat or use dozens of banks for their crypto operations. The law in my country obliges banks to check citizens' transactions and, if necessary, block accounts.

[LoyceV]

he wasn't laundering money or doing anything illegal just trying to buy and sell bitcoin apparently. now he's being treated like a criminal.

Tax evasion is illegal.

[zasad@]

if you're american, you have to declare your crypto assets to the irs. simple as that. when you sell them, when you receive them. there's no exceptions no forming some foreign company to shield your identity, none of that.

I agree that Americans are required to declare their crypto assets. But if an American is the founder of a company in an offshore zone, which has crypto assets on its balance sheet, then do you have double taxation?
Your article tells the story of a man who started doing business and did not study tax legislation. This is where all the problems come from. But again, this is a special case. In expat groups in the United States, there are people who exchange cryptocurrency for fiat and back. It is not customary for Russians to write denunciations against partners, which is probably why this business is still alive.

[larry_vw_1955]

This is impossible.

most of the things are done by computer with the IRS. actual IRS agents only get involved in filing lawsuits and things once it gets to a certain stage before that, a human being doesn't even see it. but be that as it may, there's no shortage of IRS agents since Biden threw money at the IRS to hire tens of thousands of new agents I think he allocated $80 billion to that. So they could harass USA citizens even more. Sad that Biden is so dumb and just wastes money. But that's who people voted for, that's who they wanted making decisions for them at the whitehouse. so it is what it is  

I'll tell you an example for my city with a population of one million people. There are 5-6 tax offices in the city, and only 6-7 inspectors(in every tax office) are involved in checking the income of ordinary citizens who are not businessmen or self-employed.
They check declarations that are submitted when selling cars, apartments and other expensive movable and immovable property, check inheritance and other facts. But they only work with information provided by state registration authorities or citizens themselves.
These inspectors do not have the time or ability to check crypto users who use fiat or use dozens of banks for their crypto operations. The law in my country obliges banks to check citizens' transactions and, if necessary, block accounts.

do they have a box you have to check if you were involved in crypto and what happens if you lie?

Tax evasion is illegal.

yeah i mean if someone is getting paid in fiat and not paying taxes then they are breaking the law but i'm not sure that i agree that you can just treat bitcoin that way. if someone is just using bitcoin for convenience and not for profit making activities then i dont really consider it to be something that should be taxable. they need to make an exception for that, which could come in the way of some watermark where anything above say $5000 constitutes business activities designed to seek a profit. but if your total transactions were less than that for the year then you're just considered using it for convenience and dont need to pay any taxes.

what exists right now is quite unreasonable to be honest.

i guess there are ways to manipulate the system to avoid paying taxes within the irs framework. i have heard of people in real estate doing that. they do it all the time...

[zasad@]

larry_vw_1955, there is a law to cryptocurrency, but it's a general one. According to this law, it is forbidden to use cryptocurrencies instead of money, but it is not forbidden to exchange them for money. If we talk about declaration forms, there are none.

But Russian law does not separate income from cryptocurrencies into a separate declaration. If you have received income from any activity, you are obliged to declare it. But if you receive income in fiat, selling cryptocurrency, but the tax authorities will probably never find out about it. But all bank operations are controlled by the tax authorities, and if the bank account will receive more than 600000 rubles (a little more than 6000 dollars) per month, the bank is obliged to conduct its own check and pass the data to the tax authorities.