IRS FORM 1040 "Digital Assets

[larry_vw_1955]

IRS Form 1040 now says:

At any time during 2023, did you: (a) receive (as a reward, award, or payment for property or services); or (b) sell,
exchange, or otherwise dispose of a digital asset (or a financial interest in a digital asset)? (See instructions.)


I guess it's always said that? I didn't think you had to tell them anything about anything you received, just if you spent something. It won't be long before they're going to have a part (c) if you own any digital assets then please fill out form 1040-CRYPTO.

1040-CRYPTO will be where you have to list out every single digital asset you have control over all the details so they can look it all up on the blockchain and monitor you even closer.  Having to explain to them crypto you received but never spent or anything seems overly intrusive. But now you have to do that if you're American.  

Say a friend sends you some crypto as a gift. They probably want to know about that.

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[Poker Player]

I have said it around here and there were people who disagreed with me, but I am on the same page: the major countries want to control cryptocurrency transactions in the same way they control banking transactions. I imagine they've figured out that it's a better way for them to fight the power they take away from them than banning them.

[LoyceV]

Here (in the Netherlands), income in any currency has always been taxable. You have to report it by yourself. The same with money in crypto (above a certain amount). If you don't report it, you'll have a hard time answering the questions once you buy a Lambo.
So far, they haven't asked for addresses yet, but if they ever do, I'll have fun with vanitygen

the major countries want to control cryptocurrency transactions in the same way they control banking transactions.

Regulation just means crypto is maturing. I expect it to take years though, in which they slowly add more laws.

[larry_vw_1955]

Here (in the Netherlands), income in any currency has always been taxable.

bitcoin is not currency here in the usa it's property. that has never made any sense to me. if it's really property then why aren't bitcoin holders paying annual property taxes on their holdings? you have to pay property taxes on your car or boat or house every year. why not bitcoin? that's why i don't buy the argument that bitcoin is "property".

Bitcoins are property, not currency, IRS says regarding taxes
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-bitcoin-irs/bitcoins-are-property-not-currency-irs-says-regarding-taxes-idUSBREA2O1LR20140325/

You have to report it by yourself. The same with money in crypto (above a certain amount). If you don't report it, you'll have a hard time answering the questions once you buy a Lambo.

questions by who?

So far, they haven't asked for addresses yet, but if they ever do, I'll have fun with vanitygen

they would need to be legitimate addresses that hold the relevant funds

Regulation just means crypto is maturing. I expect it to take years though, in which they slowly add more laws.

always slow to act and then get it wrong anyway. there shouldn't be any taxes or anything on bitcoin UNTIL it is cashed out.

[LoyceV]

questions by who?

Your exchange, your bank, your Lambo dealer, your tax agency.... The list of potential questions is quite long.
Al Capone got caught on tax fraud. I don't want my money to be "off the books".

[larry_vw_1955]

Your exchange, your bank, your Lambo dealer, your tax agency.... The list of potential questions is quite long.

you think so? you think it would be any different for someone that checked off the "yes" box in one single year and then 15 years later started using their 10 or 100 bitcoins?

"oh we see you checked off the yes box that you had received crypto way back in 2015 so you don't need to answer any questions even though you're buying houses and boats and lambos in 2030. you're such a good citizen, we're going to give you a reward too. you don't have to pay any taxes on anything!"

Al Capone got caught on tax fraud. I don't want my money to be "off the books".

clicking "yes" in a single box without providing any further documentation though. that's sketchy. it doesn't prove anything. they should make it more comprehensive or get rid of that declaration entirely.

there should be an entire form dealing with "digital assets" that someone has to go through and fill out. if they received any crypto, they should have to declare every single address, the balance the date everything.

there is also a problem i don't even know if the IRS keeps old tax returns past 5 or 10 years so what you declared 15 years ago with a yes/no box they might not even have a record of anymore.   none of this seems to be on very solid footing.

[zasad@]

larry_vw_1955,I think that if someone suddenly starts living like a millionaire, then the tax office will have questions for him, regardless of the checkmarks in the old declaration. The tax inspector sees a person’s official income, and when his expenses exceed his income, this will be a reason for an audit. The only way this is done in my country is that you exchange cryptocurrency for cash and rent luxury real estate and Lambo for cash.But this method also has many disadvantages.

[larry_vw_1955]

larry_vw_1955,I think that if someone suddenly starts living like a millionaire, then the tax office will have questions for him, regardless of the checkmarks in the old declaration.

exactly so it really doesn't matter how you got the bitcoin if you're selling alot of it then you are going to answer questions regardless whether you declared it to the irs or not. get ready to answer alot of questions. starting with your bank.

you're likely to be reported by your bank for money laundering from the way this sounds like:

https://www.occ.treas.gov/topics/supervision-and-examination/bank-operations/financial-crime/suspicious-activity-reports/index-suspicious-activity-reports.html

Under the Bank Secrecy Act (BSA), financial institutions are required to assist U.S. government agencies in detecting and preventing money laundering, and:

Keep records of cash purchases of negotiable instruments;
File reports of cash transactions exceeding $10,000 (daily aggregate amount); and
Report suspicious activity that might signal criminal activity (e.g., money laundering, tax evasion).

The tax inspector sees a person’s official income, and when his expenses exceed his income, this will be a reason for an audit.

it has nothing to do with the tax inspector in the usa. you can fool the irs but you can't fool the bank. the bank turns you over to the us government and they open an investigation into you to see if you're a criminal. you're guilty until proven innocent. MAYBE.

I'm not so sure if united states citizens are required to file FBAR for holding bitcoin. i'm sure no one does but it seems like TO BE CONSISTENT, the government needs to update that to requre it of them. if they meet the criteria.

https://www.fincen.gov/report-foreign-bank-and-financial-accounts

Who Must File the FBAR?

A United States person that has a financial interest in or signature authority over foreign financial accounts must file an FBAR if the aggregate value of the foreign financial accounts exceeds $10,000 at any time during the calendar year.

the penalties for not filing FBAR I think are pretty stiff. but i would have to look into it.

[Poker Player]

Well you are lucky to live in the USA, OP, look what happens in Europe:

The European Union (EU) has adopted an effective ban on crypto transactions committed through non-custodial wallets that have not been verified. This measure forms part of the broader Anti-Money Laundering (AML) directives aimed at combating financial crimes. A majority of the European Parliament‘s leading commission on March 19 approved the decision, and this stand implies a unified stand against anonymous transactions.

A previous draft had foreseen a limit of €1,000, below which transactions would be exempt, but this has now been removed. They want to control everything. I think the global trend worldwide is going to be like that, unless pro-bitcoin politicians come to power somewhere.

Regulation just means crypto is maturing. I expect it to take years though, in which they slowly add more laws.

And you like to be left without privacy? The day your government knows all your Bitcoin addresses like it knows about your bank accounts you're not going to have any privacy about it.

[LoyceV]

you think so? you think it would be any different for someone that checked off the "yes" box in one single year

Here, that would be tax fraud. If you hide your money from taxes, you're on your own when caught.

Well you are lucky to live in the USA, OP, look what happens in Europe:

The European Union (EU) has adopted an effective ban on crypto transactions committed through non-custodial wallets that have not been verified. This measure forms part of the broader Anti-Money Laundering (AML) directives aimed at combating financial crimes. A majority of the European Parliament‘s leading commission on March 19 approved the decision, and this stand implies a unified stand against anonymous transactions.

I can't take a site filled with ads and links to their own site seriously. When I search for this, all I find is dozens of other crypto related sites posting the same "news".
Here's an opposing article: Let's Debunk Claims That the EU is Banning Anonymous Crypto Transactions or Self-Custodial Wallets. After skimming through, I'm not worried.

[avikz]

Absolute surveillance!

That's exactly what the American Tax authority wants to achieve. When there's an option to declare your digital assets in the tax form, if you don't show anything, that's an offence for you. I am sure a lot of other governments will also follow such things in their own tax forms. My country has done that already and they are comparing reports sent by the local exchanges with our declared assets.

All the best! 

[larry_vw_1955]

Well you are lucky to live in the USA, OP, look what happens in Europe:

The European Union (EU) has adopted an effective ban on crypto transactions committed through non-custodial wallets that have not been verified. This measure forms part of the broader Anti-Money Laundering (AML) directives aimed at combating financial crimes. A majority of the European Parliament‘s leading commission on March 19 approved the decision, and this stand implies a unified stand against anonymous transactions.

A previous draft had foreseen a limit of €1,000, below which transactions would be exempt, but this has now been removed. They want to control everything. I think the global trend worldwide is going to be like that, unless pro-bitcoin politicians come to power somewhere.

that's a crazy law. but i think it only applies to exchanges in the EU. exchanges in other parts of the world i don't see why they would have to kiss the EU's rear end.

Here, that would be tax fraud. If you hide your money from taxes, you're on your own when caught.

but why should someone have to pay taxes on something they haven't even sold yet? there's a chance it could go to zero eventually and yet they had to pay taxes on it before they even sold it. how is that making any sense?

Here's an opposing article: Let's Debunk Claims That the EU is Banning Anonymous Crypto Transactions or Self-Custodial Wallets. After skimming through, I'm not worried.

So you can't buy things using bitcoin for more than ten thousand pounds. No teslas for people in europe i guess! not with bitcoin. that makes bitcoin less attractive as a payment mechanism for real world items. no doubt about that. now if you want to buy a tesla, you have to cash it out to a bank account in the EU and then see if they report you for suspicious large cash electronic deposits into your account maybe answer their questions before they unfreeze your bank account til you have answered their questions to their satisfaction. oh and of course you had to provide your photo ID and everything to coinbase or whoever you are cashing out from. and pay whatever fees exist for coinbase to cash you out. sounds like a real hassle. oh right. bitcoin was meant to be able to pay people directly IN BITCOIN.   not anymore i guess. not always! not when the government steps in and handicaps it. which is what it is doing.

handicapping bitcoin

don't try and "structure" your EU payments that's against the law. don't try and do anything. member states might even put lower limits in place make sure you obey those too. if you live in that member state...

[Poker Player]

I can't take a site filled with ads and links to their own site seriously. When I search for this, all I find is dozens of other crypto related sites posting the same "news".
Here's an opposing article: Let's Debunk Claims That the EU is Banning Anonymous Crypto Transactions or Self-Custodial Wallets. After skimming through, I'm not worried.

Very interesting. I had seen the news on several sites but obviously to quote I chose only one. The thing is that if it is not correct it is a case of fake news that has spread all over the crypto press. I will wait to see if this is clarified before commenting further.

[LoyceV]

but why should someone have to pay taxes on something they haven't even sold yet?

Government wants a share of everything here. I didn't make those laws

there's a chance it could go to zero eventually and yet they had to pay taxes on it before they even sold it. how is that making any sense?

It's up to the tax payer to either sell a percentage each year, or find other means to pay the taxes. And the rates have been going up in the past few years. I don't like it but can't help it either.

bitcoin was meant to be able to pay people directly IN BITCOIN.

Nobody said governments wouldn't try to force their way. Bitcoin still works fine.

The thing is that if it is not correct it is a case of fake news that has spread all over the crypto press.

Journalists are supposed to fact check before publishing. But I guess there aren't many real journalists left.

[zasad@]

larry_vw_1955,I think that if someone suddenly starts living like a millionaire, then the tax office will have questions for him, regardless of the checkmarks in the old declaration.

exactly so it really doesn't matter how you got the bitcoin if you're selling alot of it then you are going to answer questions regardless whether you declared it to the irs or not. get ready to answer alot of questions. starting with your bank.

you're likely to be reported by your bank for money laundering from the way this sounds like:

https://www.occ.treas.gov/topics/supervision-and-examination/bank-operations/financial-crime/suspicious-activity-reports/index-suspicious-activity-reports.html

Under the Bank Secrecy Act (BSA), financial institutions are required to assist U.S. government agencies in detecting and preventing money laundering, and:

Keep records of cash purchases of negotiable instruments;
File reports of cash transactions exceeding $10,000 (daily aggregate amount); and
Report suspicious activity that might signal criminal activity (e.g., money laundering, tax evasion).

The tax inspector sees a person’s official income, and when his expenses exceed his income, this will be a reason for an audit.

it has nothing to do with the tax inspector in the usa. you can fool the irs but you can't fool the bank. the bank turns you over to the us government and they open an investigation into you to see if you're a criminal. you're guilty until proven innocent. MAYBE.

I'm not so sure if united states citizens are required to file FBAR for holding bitcoin. i'm sure no one does but it seems like TO BE CONSISTENT, the government needs to update that to requre it of them. if they meet the criteria.

https://www.fincen.gov/report-foreign-bank-and-financial-accounts

Who Must File the FBAR?

A United States person that has a financial interest in or signature authority over foreign financial accounts must file an FBAR if the aggregate value of the foreign financial accounts exceeds $10,000 at any time during the calendar year.

the penalties for not filing FBAR I think are pretty stiff. but i would have to look into it.

We've been talking to you about these topics for a while now.

If you don't want to get in trouble with banks and tax authorities, it is possible to exchange cryptocurrencies for cash if you have a good partner. I'm sure banks are required to report to the IRS the receipts to a US citizen's account and outgoing payments if a certain limit is exceeded.
But you are out of luck because your country has the toughest tax regulation.

[larry_vw_1955]

It's up to the tax payer to either sell a percentage each year, or find other means to pay the taxes. And the rates have been going up in the past few years. I don't like it but can't help it either.

at some point, i think bitcoin might be against the law in the united states. either that or no one wants to use it because the irs/government makes it so unattractive to get involved in from a reporting point of view.

Nobody said governments wouldn't try to force their way. Bitcoin still works fine.

as long as the purchase is not for more than 10,000 euros it will work fine. they can't do it if it's more than that.

But you are out of luck because your country has the toughest tax regulation.

i wouldn't call it the toughest, i would call it overly complicated though. for example, the irs could require all americans bitcoin addresses be setup in such a way that anytime a miner mined a transaction from one of their addresses, the tax was automatically taken out. just like they do with sales taxes and things like that. why place that burden on the american citizen to figure it all out. then they could impose other fees too like an annual property tax that miners would submit on their behalf every year. to debit all bitcoin account holders. i'm suprised the irs hasn't thought of doing something like that. 

[LoyceV]

the irs could require all americans bitcoin addresses be setup in such a way that anytime a miner mined a transaction from one of their addresses, the tax was automatically taken out.

There is no such thing as "American Bitcoin addresses". Miners can only mine valid transactions, which means your own wallet would have to create an "IRS change" output. That's not going to happen.

[zasad@]

But you are out of luck because your country has the toughest tax regulation.

i wouldn't call it the toughest, i would call it overly complicated though. for example, the irs could require all americans bitcoin addresses be setup in such a way that anytime a miner mined a transaction from one of their addresses, the tax was automatically taken out. just like they do with sales taxes and things like that. why place that burden on the american citizen to figure it all out. then they could impose other fees too like an annual property tax that miners would submit on their behalf every year. to debit all bitcoin account holders. i'm suprised the irs hasn't thought of doing something like that. 

It seems to me that you are very tired of reading other people's opinions. If you want to be in American jurisdiction, then study the law so you know how to break it and minimize your risks. Any demands from your tax office must be legal, and if you do not know the laws, then you have the right to a defender/lawyer and so on.

[larry_vw_1955]

There is no such thing as "American Bitcoin addresses". Miners can only mine valid transactions, which means your own wallet would have to create an "IRS change" output. That's not going to happen.

why wouldn't it happen? it could technically happen. all the governments of the world unite to form a special multisig bitcoin address where every transaction has to have a "change" output to that address for paying taxes. then the governments would force bitcoin to put that into the consensus rules that a transaction had to have that change address and it had to be XX% of the total sum of all utxo inputs to the transaction. very simple. if the governments got together and demanded that then it would get baked into the protocol. because the alternative would be prosecution.

this is a better way because then no one has to worry about paying taxes on anything bitcoin related. it would all happen automatically. the government could force the same thing on other blockchains if they got big enough like ethereum. very simple way to make sure that people pay their taxes.

[pinggoki]

So far, they haven't asked for addresses yet, but if they ever do, I'll have fun with vanitygen

Don't give them ideas, who knows who will see this post and they work for the government, but if that comes to that point, vanitygen might be the answer. Thankfully, the government in my country is all bark no bite when it comes to cryptocurrency taxation, never been pestered or messed by the BIR (IRS equivalent in my country) and I've even got friends that have been putting a lot of money in the bank and then quickly getting it out and so far, they're not even raised any suspicions despite being banned or having that bank account suspended. I hope that this will be the case for us in a long time, I don't want to pay my taxes when the money gets pocketed by the corrupt politicians.

[philipma1957]

The biggest issue the new $10000 rule is if you live in America and receive 10000 or more in 1 send you need to kyc the sender.

This can be a real problem for anyone that mines on a solo mining pool.

If I were to win a block on ck solo pool I have 2 weeks to report that I received it. and I have to give kyc on the sender which is ck solo pool.

if the pool does not issue  kyc for itself I have a compliance issue.

even if I report the 6.25 coins and pay income tax on them I will not have complied with the new law which insists that I the receiver kyc and id the sender.

For now I do not solo mine any more to avoid this issue.

I do not mind paying the tax if I hit a block but if the pool does not provide me with the correct info I am fucked even if I report the 6.25 coins.

[zasad@]

There is no such thing as "American Bitcoin addresses". Miners can only mine valid transactions, which means your own wallet would have to create an "IRS change" output. That's not going to happen.

why wouldn't it happen? it could technically happen. all the governments of the world unite to form a special multisig bitcoin address where every transaction has to have a "change" output to that address for paying taxes. then the governments would force bitcoin to put that into the consensus rules that a transaction had to have that change address and it had to be XX% of the total sum of all utxo inputs to the transaction. very simple. if the governments got together and demanded that then it would get baked into the protocol. because the alternative would be prosecution.

this is a better way because then no one has to worry about paying taxes on anything bitcoin related. it would all happen automatically. the government could force the same thing on other blockchains if they got big enough like ethereum. very simple way to make sure that people pay their taxes.

A better way to control citizens is to implant a chip in a person's brain, then the government will know everything about its citizens.

____
Colleagues, I don't understand you. If Russia will have such stupid laws, no one will implement them. If a miner needs to know the sender's kyc, he will mine to a new address, and then think how to legalize these coins, if necessary.

And if tomorrow a law comes out that will oblige all crypto users to pass a lie detector, where they will ask about taxes paid, will you also go to comply?  

When will your patience run out and you will say that I am ready to pay taxes and I pay them as a law-abiding citizen, and if you do not like my transactions, let blockchain analysis companies and other specialists do it?

[LoyceV]

all the governments of the world unite

Lol. Right after they sign off on world peace.

[zasad@]

all the governments of the world unite

Lol. Right after they sign off on world peace.

Somebody reads or watches a lot of fantastic

[larry_vw_1955]

The biggest issue the new $10000 rule is if you live in America and receive 10000 or more in 1 send you need to kyc the sender.

This can be a real problem for anyone that mines on a solo mining pool.

If I were to win a block on ck solo pool I have 2 weeks to report that I received it. and I have to give kyc on the sender which is ck solo pool.

if the pool does not issue  kyc for itself I have a compliance issue.

even if I report the 6.25 coins and pay income tax on them I will not have complied with the new law which insists that I the receiver kyc and id the sender.

For now I do not solo mine any more to avoid this issue.

I do not mind paying the tax if I hit a block but if the pool does not provide me with the correct info I am fucked even if I report the 6.25 coins.

the irs really is screwing bitcoin miners. no doubt about that. turning them into criminals even when they try and do the right thing but they can't because it's impossible to comply with rules made by ignoramouses....people who don't even understand bitcoin and how it works.

that's why i think bitcoin needs to have some type of anonymizing feature where no one can know anything about what anyone owns until it literally gets cashed out but even once it is cashed out it is still untraceable so no history of when or how or anything. so you can declare the income when it's convenient for you and not a second sooner. no not monero...

Lol. Right after they sign off on world peace.

so you don't think its possible for some one or some thing to hijack bitcoin and force a certain percentage of the transaction inputs to go to a certain address? the antichrist could probably do that but i'm not sure if he has come yet but the bible talks about the antichrist. he could probably do it.  

[LoyceV]

so you don't think its possible for some one or some thing to hijack bitcoin and force a certain percentage of the transaction inputs to go to a certain address?

Nope. That's the good thing about Bitcoin: nobody can control it.

the antichrist could probably do that but i'm not sure if he has come yet but the bible talks about the antichrist. he could probably do it.  

I already thought you're trolling with the statements you make. Now I'm sure.

[larry_vw_1955]

Nope. That's the good thing about Bitcoin: nobody can control it.

i understand that no one can control it but it's not like they're not trying to.

I already thought you're trolling with the statements you make. Now I'm sure.

i didn't say i believe the antichrist is actually something that will happen but he is a theoretical concept. but if such an entity ever came into power i can guarantee you that people that used bitcoin would be on the very top of his list to eradicate. because if they are using something he can't control then they can
"buy and sell". do you think the antichrist would want people being able to buy and sell without his approval? of course not....

[zasad@]

so you don't think its possible for some one or some thing to hijack bitcoin and force a certain percentage of the transaction inputs to go to a certain address?

Nope. That's the good thing about Bitcoin: nobody can control it.

the antichrist could probably do that but i'm not sure if he has come yet but the bible talks about the antichrist. he could probably do it.  

I already thought you're trolling with the statements you make. Now I'm sure.

I agree that the government cannot control Bitcoin, but it can perfectly control financial systems. In my country, you can buy gold, silver, platinum and other precious metals in the bank app, and you can also buy company shares. This opportunity did not appear yesterday; it has already been working for more than 5 years. I think that in a couple of years Bitcoin will appear there, and then other cryptocurrencies. And people will not use real bitcoins, but will use custodial services.

[larry_vw_1955]

I think that in a couple of years Bitcoin will appear there, and then other cryptocurrencies. And people will not use real bitcoins, but will use custodial services.

the IRS would love to make that a law that people can't hold bitcoin in non-custodial wallets. if they could require that then it would make it easier for them to monitor peoples' bitcoin holdings. because the custodial services could snitch on them. the IRS loves making third party platforms snitch on their users. just one of the ways the IRS keeps people under their thumb. snitch on you neighbor turn them in and get a tax credit. report them for using bitcoin if you suspect they are not declaring those capital gains.  

[zasad@]

I think that in a couple of years Bitcoin will appear there, and then other cryptocurrencies. And people will not use real bitcoins, but will use custodial services.

the IRS would love to make that a law that people can't hold bitcoin in non-custodial wallets. if they could require that then it would make it easier for them to monitor peoples' bitcoin holdings. because the custodial services could snitch on them. the IRS loves making third party platforms snitch on their users. just one of the ways the IRS keeps people under their thumb. snitch on you neighbor turn them in and get a tax credit. report them for using bitcoin if you suspect they are not declaring those capital gains.  

We live in the age of digital technology and AI. It used to be that the IRS only controlled income and audited income taxes.
In my country it worked like this. I have 0 taxes, but I have several expensive apartments, houses, premium cars and I vacation abroad 4 times a year. Now IRS checks expenses and this is a more correct way to control not only cryptocurrencies but any other activity for which a citizen does not pay taxes.

[larry_vw_1955]

We live in the age of digital technology and AI. It used to be that the IRS only controlled income and audited income taxes.
In my country it worked like this. I have 0 taxes, but I have several expensive apartments, houses, premium cars and I vacation abroad 4 times a year. Now IRS checks expenses and this is a more correct way to control not only cryptocurrencies but any other activity for which a citizen does not pay taxes.

follow the money. a tactic as old as time itself. it doesn't catch every illegal thing though but i would much prefer that way over placing a burden over EVERYONE and making them report to uncle sam every year.

i think i know why satoshi is not coming back and it is because if he did, the irs would sue him immediately and try and force him to give up some of his bitcoin. some means probably hundreds of millions of dollars. even though he never sold anything, they would want their cut immediately. just how it is. that's why satoshi wouldn't want to come back into the public eye. if i was him anyway...

also just a heads up to everyone in the usa. time to file your taxes by april 15 and tell the irs how naughty you've been with bitcoin and how much bitcoin taxes you need to pay.   i suppose there could even be penalties for not making estimated payments on your bitcoin profits but we won't worry about that.

[philipma1957]

We live in the age of digital technology and AI. It used to be that the IRS only controlled income and audited income taxes.
In my country it worked like this. I have 0 taxes, but I have several expensive apartments, houses, premium cars and I vacation abroad 4 times a year. Now IRS checks expenses and this is a more correct way to control not only cryptocurrencies but any other activity for which a citizen does not pay taxes.

follow the money. a tactic as old as time itself. it doesn't catch every illegal thing though but i would much prefer that way over placing a burden over EVERYONE and making them report to uncle sam every year.

i think i know why satoshi is not coming back and it is because if he did, the irs would sue him immediately and try and force him to give up some of his bitcoin. some means probably hundreds of millions of dollars. even though he never sold anything, they would want their cut immediately. just how it is. that's why satoshi wouldn't want to come back into the public eye. if i was him anyway...

also just a heads up to everyone in the usa. time to file your taxes by april 15 and tell the irs how naughty you've been with bitcoin and how much bitcoin taxes you need to pay.   i suppose there could even be penalties for not making estimated payments on your bitcoin profits but we won't worry about that.

I filed and extension till oct 15th.

the biggest issue for a miner is getting a large hit mining and having the pool say fuck you I won't give you reporting info. I sent you blank coins that is all I need to do. If you live in the USA it will be a problem even if you mention how many coins you got.


I mine here

https://pool.laurentiapool.org/#/work

if we hit a block I will get over $10000 and will need to give the pools reporting info. I know the pool runner and he will give it to me. So I still mine there.

[larry_vw_1955]

I filed and extension till oct 15th.

that's all well and good but:


A tax extension gives filers an extra six months to file tax returns.
While an extension gives you more time to file, it doesn't extend the date to pay your tax liability if you owe money.
It's free to file for a tax extension, but you could face penalties if you fail to pay some or all of what you owe the IRS.

https://www.businessinsider.com/personal-finance/how-to-file-tax-extension

the irs doesn't seem to care about the paperwork so much as they do about collecting their dues.

the biggest issue for a miner is getting a large hit mining and having the pool say fuck you I won't give you reporting info. I sent you blank coins that is all I need to do. If you live in the USA it will be a problem even if you mention how many coins you got.

then that means the pool doesn't even report their payouts to the IRS so woudln't that mean you wouldn't need to either? they're not going to know about it unless you do some huge cashout but if you keep it in bitcoin and don't transfer to fiat i don't see how they could know anything.

I mine here

https://pool.laurentiapool.org/#/work

if we hit a block I will get over $10000 and will need to give the pools reporting info. I know the pool runner and he will give it to me. So I still mine there.

cool.

[zasad@]

We live in the age of digital technology and AI. It used to be that the IRS only controlled income and audited income taxes.
In my country it worked like this. I have 0 taxes, but I have several expensive apartments, houses, premium cars and I vacation abroad 4 times a year. Now IRS checks expenses and this is a more correct way to control not only cryptocurrencies but any other activity for which a citizen does not pay taxes.

follow the money. a tactic as old as time itself. it doesn't catch every illegal thing though but i would much prefer that way over placing a burden over EVERYONE and making them report to uncle sam every year.

i think i know why satoshi is not coming back and it is because if he did, the irs would sue him immediately and try and force him to give up some of his bitcoin. some means probably hundreds of millions of dollars. even though he never sold anything, they would want their cut immediately. just how it is. that's why satoshi wouldn't want to come back into the public eye. if i was him anyway...

also just a heads up to everyone in the usa. time to file your taxes by april 15 and tell the irs how naughty you've been with bitcoin and how much bitcoin taxes you need to pay.   i suppose there could even be penalties for not making estimated payments on your bitcoin profits but we won't worry about that.

Keeping track of all citizens is very expensive and impossible even for a state-of-the-art IRS like in the US. I think some users do not agree with such requirements and are looking for ways not to declare their assets in the US. There are many offshore areas near the US where it is more cost effective to incorporate and declare your assets with minimal taxes.

[larry_vw_1955]

Keeping track of all citizens is very expensive and impossible even for a state-of-the-art IRS like in the US.

that's exactly what the irs does though. keep track of every single person.

I think some users do not agree with such requirements and are looking for ways not to declare their assets in the US.

they can move to another country and renounce their american citizenship but that's about all they can legally do. look what happened to this guy:

https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/crypto-tax-evasion-is-just-tax-evasion-2778390/

Tax evasion is as old as tax collection, so it is no surprise that there is tax evasion related to crypto. In a recent case, United States v. Frank Ahlgren III, Federal prosecutors allege that between 2017 and 2019, the defendant failed report gains from the sale of appreciated bitcoin on his federal income tax returns. If the allegations are proven beyond a reasonable doubt, this case is tax evasion in its plainest form.

he wasn't laundering money or doing anything illegal just trying to buy and sell bitcoin apparently. now he's being treated like a criminal. i wonder if they'll throw him in jail.

There are many offshore areas near the US where it is more cost effective to incorporate and declare your assets with minimal taxes.

if you're american, you have to declare your crypto assets to the irs. simple as that. when you sell them, when you receive them. there's no exceptions no forming some foreign company to shield your identity, none of that.

[zasad@]

Keeping track of all citizens is very expensive and impossible even for a state-of-the-art IRS like in the US.

that's exactly what the irs does though. keep track of every single person.

This is impossible. I'll tell you an example for my city with a population of one million people. There are 5-6 tax offices in the city, and only 6-7 inspectors(in every tax office) are involved in checking the income of ordinary citizens who are not businessmen or self-employed.
They check declarations that are submitted when selling cars, apartments and other expensive movable and immovable property, check inheritance and other facts. But they only work with information provided by state registration authorities or citizens themselves.
These inspectors do not have the time or ability to check crypto users who use fiat or use dozens of banks for their crypto operations. The law in my country obliges banks to check citizens' transactions and, if necessary, block accounts.

[LoyceV]

he wasn't laundering money or doing anything illegal just trying to buy and sell bitcoin apparently. now he's being treated like a criminal.

Tax evasion is illegal.

[zasad@]

if you're american, you have to declare your crypto assets to the irs. simple as that. when you sell them, when you receive them. there's no exceptions no forming some foreign company to shield your identity, none of that.

I agree that Americans are required to declare their crypto assets. But if an American is the founder of a company in an offshore zone, which has crypto assets on its balance sheet, then do you have double taxation?
Your article tells the story of a man who started doing business and did not study tax legislation. This is where all the problems come from. But again, this is a special case. In expat groups in the United States, there are people who exchange cryptocurrency for fiat and back. It is not customary for Russians to write denunciations against partners, which is probably why this business is still alive.

[larry_vw_1955]

This is impossible.

most of the things are done by computer with the IRS. actual IRS agents only get involved in filing lawsuits and things once it gets to a certain stage before that, a human being doesn't even see it. but be that as it may, there's no shortage of IRS agents since Biden threw money at the IRS to hire tens of thousands of new agents I think he allocated $80 billion to that. So they could harass USA citizens even more. Sad that Biden is so dumb and just wastes money. But that's who people voted for, that's who they wanted making decisions for them at the whitehouse. so it is what it is  

I'll tell you an example for my city with a population of one million people. There are 5-6 tax offices in the city, and only 6-7 inspectors(in every tax office) are involved in checking the income of ordinary citizens who are not businessmen or self-employed.
They check declarations that are submitted when selling cars, apartments and other expensive movable and immovable property, check inheritance and other facts. But they only work with information provided by state registration authorities or citizens themselves.
These inspectors do not have the time or ability to check crypto users who use fiat or use dozens of banks for their crypto operations. The law in my country obliges banks to check citizens' transactions and, if necessary, block accounts.

do they have a box you have to check if you were involved in crypto and what happens if you lie?

Tax evasion is illegal.

yeah i mean if someone is getting paid in fiat and not paying taxes then they are breaking the law but i'm not sure that i agree that you can just treat bitcoin that way. if someone is just using bitcoin for convenience and not for profit making activities then i dont really consider it to be something that should be taxable. they need to make an exception for that, which could come in the way of some watermark where anything above say $5000 constitutes business activities designed to seek a profit. but if your total transactions were less than that for the year then you're just considered using it for convenience and dont need to pay any taxes.

what exists right now is quite unreasonable to be honest.

i guess there are ways to manipulate the system to avoid paying taxes within the irs framework. i have heard of people in real estate doing that. they do it all the time...

[zasad@]

larry_vw_1955, there is a law to cryptocurrency, but it's a general one. According to this law, it is forbidden to use cryptocurrencies instead of money, but it is not forbidden to exchange them for money. If we talk about declaration forms, there are none.

But Russian law does not separate income from cryptocurrencies into a separate declaration. If you have received income from any activity, you are obliged to declare it. But if you receive income in fiat, selling cryptocurrency, but the tax authorities will probably never find out about it. But all bank operations are controlled by the tax authorities, and if the bank account will receive more than 600000 rubles (a little more than 6000 dollars) per month, the bank is obliged to conduct its own check and pass the data to the tax authorities.

[larry_vw_1955]

larry_vw_1955, there is a law to cryptocurrency, but it's a general one. According to this law, it is forbidden to use cryptocurrencies instead of money, but it is not forbidden to exchange them for money. If we talk about declaration forms, there are none.

But Russian law does not separate income from cryptocurrencies into a separate declaration. If you have received income from any activity, you are obliged to declare it. But if you receive income in fiat, selling cryptocurrency, but the tax authorities will probably never find out about it. But all bank operations are controlled by the tax authorities, and if the bank account will receive more than 600000 rubles (a little more than 6000 dollars) per month, the bank is obliged to conduct its own check and pass the data to the tax authorities.

if you use somewhere like coinbase here in the usa, i think they send out a 1099-misc but only if you made more than $600. if you made less than that then they don't send the form and the irs doesn't know anything. so i guess thats like free tax free income. if people don't get that form in the mail there is no way they are going to voluntarily report anything...

[zasad@]

larry_vw_1955, there is a law to cryptocurrency, but it's a general one. According to this law, it is forbidden to use cryptocurrencies instead of money, but it is not forbidden to exchange them for money. If we talk about declaration forms, there are none.

But Russian law does not separate income from cryptocurrencies into a separate declaration. If you have received income from any activity, you are obliged to declare it. But if you receive income in fiat, selling cryptocurrency, but the tax authorities will probably never find out about it. But all bank operations are controlled by the tax authorities, and if the bank account will receive more than 600000 rubles (a little more than 6000 dollars) per month, the bank is obliged to conduct its own check and pass the data to the tax authorities.

if you use somewhere like coinbase here in the usa, i think they send out a 1099-misc but only if you made more than $600. if you made less than that then they don't send the form and the irs doesn't know anything. so i guess thats like free tax free income. if people don't get that form in the mail there is no way they are going to voluntarily report anything...

If you look at the statistics of the average salary in the US, it's $4,300. I took the data from here, and it looks about right to me.
https://visasam.ru/emigration/canadausa/zarplata-v-ssha.html

600 dollars or a little more is a small amount and I think traders invest a lot more than that and make a lot more profit or loss.

If a trader trades on Coinbase, of course he will have to learn the laws and pay all the taxes.  But this is not the only way to trade in the US.

[larry_vw_1955]

If you look at the statistics of the average salary in the US, it's $4,300. I took the data from here, and it looks about right to me.
https://visasam.ru/emigration/canadausa/zarplata-v-ssha.html

seems kind of low. i don't think most people here in the usa would be happy just making that amount. although to some people in other parts of the world it might seem like alot, to people in the usa it is really not very much at all. poverty level in some places. to be honest.

600 dollars or a little more is a small amount and I think traders invest a lot more than that and make a lot more profit or loss.

but that's the thing though. lets say you have a coinbase debit card and spend $10,000 worth of bitcoin using that debit card in one year. coinbase is not going to issue you a form 1099-misc still. i think they only do that if you got staking earnings or something like that. they don't keep track of your trading profits or losses so if they don't send you a 1099-misc then the irs knows nothing about it, i'm assuming. i think that's a legal way to avoid paying taxes on bitcoin maybe. not sure.

but if i bought coffee i'm sure not sitting down trying to figure out costs bases and things like that...

If a trader trades on Coinbase, of course he will have to learn the laws and pay all the taxes.  But this is not the only way to trade in the US.

it's how most people trade. they used a centralized exchange.

the REAL way to avoid paying taxes on all crypto is to hold it in an IRA like this one:

https://bitcoinira.com/about-us

BitcoinIRA is the world’s first and most trusted crypto IRA platform for investing in cryptocurrencies with self-directed IRAs. We aim to make the complex process of saving for retirement simpler and safer. Our team strives to give our clients the educational materials and tools needed to help them reach their retirement goals.


the problem is, if i have to transfer my crypto to someone else's possession it is a NO GO. after what happened to places like Celcius, FTX, and lest we forget BlockFi, there's only one thing worse than losing your crypto in a BlockFi interest earning savings account and that would be letting it sit in a bitcoin IRA product from some company for 20 or 30 years and then when you are getting ready to make your first withdrawal, they go belly up.

the IRS really needs to revamp and allow people to create their own self-custodied bitcoin ira so they don't have to trust third parties with their bitcoin and other crypto because then it just becomes another situation like block fi potentially...

also i'm not a big fan of having to pay someone $500 per year just so i can have an IRA. that's stupid. because it's like the company is holding me hostage saying they won't let me off the hook for paying capital gains to the IRS unless I pay THEM instead. 

[zasad@]

larry_vw_1955, One Russian IT security engineer said a brilliant phrase: “What can leak, will definitely leak.”
To put it simply, all data stored on different platforms will be transferred to the state or hackers will sell it to scammers. Even if the platform does not contain your personal data, the details of your transactions can also convey a lot of information about you.
To invest in cryptocurrencies, a smart user does not need any platforms. I bought cryptocurrency for cash and I sold cryptocurrency for cash.

[larry_vw_1955]

larry_vw_1955, One Russian IT security engineer said a brilliant phrase: “What can leak, will definitely leak.”
To put it simply, all data stored on different platforms will be transferred to the state or hackers will sell it to scammers. Even if the platform does not contain your personal data, the details of your transactions can also convey a lot of information about you.
To invest in cryptocurrencies, a smart user does not need any platforms. I bought cryptocurrency for cash and I sold cryptocurrency for cash.

i'm talking about investing in bitcoin through an IRA so you don't have to pay any taxes. from what i've seen, at least on the bitcoinIRA website, you have to transfer your bitcoin into THEIR custody.

the bitcoinIRA website says this:

Up To $250M² Custody Insurance
Assets are insured for up to $250 million with BitGo and their insurance provider Lloyd’s of London, the world’s specialist insurance and reinsurance market


I would imagine that most people that see that have no idea how to verify if it is actually true and have no real understanding of what it really means.

[zasad@]

larry_vw_1955, One Russian IT security engineer said a brilliant phrase: “What can leak, will definitely leak.”
To put it simply, all data stored on different platforms will be transferred to the state or hackers will sell it to scammers. Even if the platform does not contain your personal data, the details of your transactions can also convey a lot of information about you.
To invest in cryptocurrencies, a smart user does not need any platforms. I bought cryptocurrency for cash and I sold cryptocurrency for cash.

i'm talking about investing in bitcoin through an IRA so you don't have to pay any taxes. from what i've seen, at least on the bitcoinIRA website, you have to transfer your bitcoin into THEIR custody.

the bitcoinIRA website says this:

Up To $250M² Custody Insurance
Assets are insured for up to $250 million with BitGo and their insurance provider Lloyd’s of London, the world’s specialist insurance and reinsurance market


I would imagine that most people that see that have no idea how to verify if it is actually true and have no real understanding of what it really means.

When people say IRA to me, I first think of the Irish Republican Army (IRA), which fought for Irish independence.
A person does not need custodial intermediaries to invest in cryptocurrencies. If your cryptocurrencies are stored on other people's wallets, you no longer own them. The founder of the Bitcoin project wanted to free you from custodial intermediaries, but you don't want to free yourself from the shackles and keep saying that you need a custodial intermediary.

[larry_vw_1955]

When people say IRA to me, I first think of the Irish Republican Army (IRA), which fought for Irish independence.
A person does not need custodial intermediaries to invest in cryptocurrencies. If your cryptocurrencies are stored on other people's wallets, you no longer own them. The founder of the Bitcoin project wanted to free you from custodial intermediaries, but you don't want to free yourself from the shackles and keep saying that you need a custodial intermediary.

The benefit of having your crypto in an IRA here in the united states is, you don't have to file reports on your activities. and you don't have to pay any taxes. buy and sell all you want. no reporting. no paying taxes or anything. why wouldn't someone want that type of setup?

in order to have that type of setup though you have to setup an IRA. so if that can be done without involving a 3rd party, that might be a good thing. i just don't know if people do that. and if not why not. maybe because they are lazy and just go with sites like bitcoinIRA i dont know...

[zasad@]

When people say IRA to me, I first think of the Irish Republican Army (IRA), which fought for Irish independence.
A person does not need custodial intermediaries to invest in cryptocurrencies. If your cryptocurrencies are stored on other people's wallets, you no longer own them. The founder of the Bitcoin project wanted to free you from custodial intermediaries, but you don't want to free yourself from the shackles and keep saying that you need a custodial intermediary.

The benefit of having your crypto in an IRA here in the united states is, you don't have to file reports on your activities. and you don't have to pay any taxes. buy and sell all you want. no reporting. no paying taxes or anything. why wouldn't someone want that type of setup?

in order to have that type of setup though you have to setup an IRA. so if that can be done without involving a 3rd party, that might be a good thing. i just don't know if people do that. and if not why not. maybe because they are lazy and just go with sites like bitcoinIRA i dont know...

Ok, I'll try to read up on bitcoinIRA because I don't understand how a third party custodial service allows US citizens to avoid paying taxes.
If an experienced user wants to stay in the shadows, then he will not use custodial services. There are a lot of projects on the Internet for exchanging cryptocurrencies without KYC.
If you can briefly explain to me how bitcoinIRA works, I will be grateful to you.

[larry_vw_1955]

Ok, I'll try to read up on bitcoinIRA because I don't understand how a third party custodial service allows US citizens to avoid paying taxes.

That's what IRA's are allowed to do is grow your retirement savings without paying any taxes UNTIL you start taking distributions. But if you set up a Roth IRA, there are no taxes when you start taking distributions since it was funded with "after-tax" money. Very simple. Alot of financial service companies offer IRAs, but most of them only let you invest in more traditional things like the stock market. Here in the USA that is...

If you can briefly explain to me how bitcoinIRA works, I will be grateful to you.

Think of it as a centralized exchange that you can trade crypto among various things like BTC, ETH and other major cryptocurrencies. Buying and selling all you want without having to file anything with the IRS. All that buying and selling can create a major reporting requirement otherwise. So I guess an IRA is a way to do away with that type of thing.

[zasad@]

Ok, I'll try to read up on bitcoinIRA because I don't understand how a third party custodial service allows US citizens to avoid paying taxes.

That's what IRA's are allowed to do is grow your retirement savings without paying any taxes UNTIL you start taking distributions. But if you set up a Roth IRA, there are no taxes when you start taking distributions since it was funded with "after-tax" money. Very simple. Alot of financial service companies offer IRAs, but most of them only let you invest in more traditional things like the stock market. Here in the USA that is...

If you can briefly explain to me how bitcoinIRA works, I will be grateful to you.

Think of it as a centralized exchange that you can trade crypto among various things like BTC, ETH and other major cryptocurrencies. Buying and selling all you want without having to file anything with the IRS. All that buying and selling can create a major reporting requirement otherwise. So I guess an IRA is a way to do away with that type of thing.

I have never encountered this in my country. If I invest money in my retirement account, which is managed by the fund of my choice, then I will receive my money only after retirement and these payments will not be subject to taxes. If I don’t live to see retirement, my heirs will receive this money. But such an investment has a big disadvantage. If a pensioner starts receiving a pension and dies a couple of months later, his heirs will not receive the remaining money.

__

And you didn't explain an important point. If I trade on a centralized IRA exchange and make a profit, which I then transfer to my bank account, how can I then not have to pay taxes? It looks fantastic.

[larry_vw_1955]

And you didn't explain an important point. If I trade on a centralized IRA exchange and make a profit, which I then transfer to my bank account, how can I then not have to pay taxes? It looks fantastic.

that depends on if you're withdrawing your contributions or earnings. but once you reach 59.5 years old you can withdraw whatever you want to no penalty no taxes no nothing. no reporting no nothing. anyone can correct me if they don't think i'm right.  

Direct contributions to a Roth IRA (principal) may be withdrawn tax and penalty-free at any time.[12] Earnings may be withdrawn tax and penalty-free after 5 years if the condition of age 59½ (or other qualifying condition) is also met.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roth_IRA

[zasad@]

And you didn't explain an important point. If I trade on a centralized IRA exchange and make a profit, which I then transfer to my bank account, how can I then not have to pay taxes? It looks fantastic.

that depends on if you're withdrawing your contributions or earnings. but once you reach 59.5 years old you can withdraw whatever you want to no penalty no taxes no nothing. no reporting no nothing. anyone can correct me if they don't think i'm right.  

Direct contributions to a Roth IRA (principal) may be withdrawn tax and penalty-free at any time.[12] Earnings may be withdrawn tax and penalty-free after 5 years if the condition of age 59½ (or other qualifying condition) is also met.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roth_IRA

This is some kind of tricky pension fund that the regulators haven’t gotten to yet.
I have already written a hundred times why such services cannot be used. You can earn 10-30% per year, but you may lose your entire investment. This is incorrect risk management.

[larry_vw_1955]

This is some kind of tricky pension fund that the regulators haven’t gotten to yet.

IRAs are a thing. Maybe you don't live here in the USA but in the USA that's what people use.

I have already written a hundred times why such services cannot be used. You can earn 10-30% per year, but you may lose your entire investment. This is incorrect risk management.

No you can't earn 10 to 30% per year. Why would you think that. The real issue with them is you are handing over your money to a third party. So they should be insured and well, do your own due diligence...

[zasad@]

This is some kind of tricky pension fund that the regulators haven’t gotten to yet.

IRAs are a thing. Maybe you don't live here in the USA but in the USA that's what people use.

I have already written a hundred times why such services cannot be used. You can earn 10-30% per year, but you may lose your entire investment. This is incorrect risk management.

No you can't earn 10 to 30% per year. Why would you think that. The real issue with them is you are handing over your money to a third party. So they should be insured and well, do your own due diligence...

I think the real problem here is completely different. The idea of Satoshi was for people to be free and their savings to be free from banks and pension funds and to manage their coins independently, and after 15 years people think that their bitcoins are safer to store with centralized intermediaries.

[larry_vw_1955]

I think the real problem here is completely different.

there's not just one "real problem" there's multiple ones. one of them is having to pay taxes on your bitcoin. biden is trying to tax wealthy people now on their UNREALIZED gains at 44% do you know what that means? satoshi, if he was alive and american and biden's bill passed, satoshi would owe almost half his bitcoins to the IRS and they would be tracking him down so fast his head would spin. 

The idea of Satoshi was for people to be free and their savings to be free from banks and pension funds and to manage their coins independently, and after 15 years people think that their bitcoins are safer to store with centralized intermediaries.

some people are incapable of managing private data and will end up losing their private keys and all of their bitcoin. satoshi probably didn't think too much about that aspect of things but it exists. and it really is problematic.

[zasad@]

I think the real problem here is completely different.

there's not just one "real problem" there's multiple ones. one of them is having to pay taxes on your bitcoin. biden is trying to tax wealthy people now on their UNREALIZED gains at 44% do you know what that means? satoshi, if he was alive and american and biden's bill passed, satoshi would owe almost half his bitcoins to the IRS and they would be tracking him down so fast his head would spin.  

The idea of Satoshi was for people to be free and their savings to be free from banks and pension funds and to manage their coins independently, and after 15 years people think that their bitcoins are safer to store with centralized intermediaries.

some people are incapable of managing private data and will end up losing their private keys and all of their bitcoin. satoshi probably didn't think too much about that aspect of things but it exists. and it really is problematic.

About taxes, my point was that taxes need to be paid. But if the tax rate is just prohibitive, you don't have to be an idiot.
Rich people have the best tax advisors in the world and will always find a way to minimize taxes.

In other words what you are saying is that some people should remain slaves to the system.

[larry_vw_1955]

About taxes, my point was that taxes need to be paid. But if the tax rate is just prohibitive, you don't have to be an idiot.
Rich people have the best tax advisors in the world and will always find a way to minimize taxes.

Rich people dont pay taxes from what i've heard. That's how they got rich in the first place. Keeping all that money and using it to make more.

In other words what you are saying is that some people should remain slaves to the system.

No, I'm saying some people should put their crypto with custodians. Because they are incapable to managing private data over the longterm without losing it. That's if they insist on being involved in crypto at all. If not then so much the better. I'm doing them a favor by having that opinion. As harsh as it may sound. Dont get involved in crypto unless you are really good at keeping private data secure for the longterm.

[zasad@]

About taxes, my point was that taxes need to be paid. But if the tax rate is just prohibitive, you don't have to be an idiot.
Rich people have the best tax advisors in the world and will always find a way to minimize taxes.

Rich people dont pay taxes from what i've heard. That's how they got rich in the first place. Keeping all that money and using it to make more.

In other words what you are saying is that some people should remain slaves to the system.

No, I'm saying some people should put their crypto with custodians. Because they are incapable to managing private data over the longterm without losing it. That's if they insist on being involved in crypto at all. If not then so much the better. I'm doing them a favor by having that opinion. As harsh as it may sound. Dont get involved in crypto unless you are really good at keeping private data secure for the longterm.

If you look at the lists of the richest people in the US and the amount of taxes paid, you will realize that rich people and their companies pay high taxes. But each case needs to be analyzed individually, because in the USA there are a lot of benefits for different companies in different areas and the largest benefits are in the AI direction.

larry_vw_1955, why are you making excuses? The system does everything to ensure that the majority of people are its slaves. If this is not the case, then it is a bad system.

[larry_vw_1955]

If you look at the lists of the richest people in the US and the amount of taxes paid, you will realize that rich people and their companies pay high taxes.

i don't need to look at a list of rich people. i know of one rich person and i know exactly how he avoids paying any taxes. but he has a huge income and he does it legally. its very simple.

larry_vw_1955, why are you making excuses? The system does everything to ensure that the majority of people are its slaves. If this is not the case, then it is a bad system.

a bad system for who? the majority of the people?

i heard biden is trying to make it a felony if you don't file your tax return for 3 out of 5 years and then the penalty would be jail time and maybe something more. that's part of his budget proposal for 2025. it applies to rich people. not working folks.  

i think i heard it may be a 5 year jail term. just enough time to get acclimated to life on the inside...

[zasad@]

If you look at the lists of the richest people in the US and the amount of taxes paid, you will realize that rich people and their companies pay high taxes.

i don't need to look at a list of rich people. i know of one rich person and i know exactly how he avoids paying any taxes. but he has a huge income and he does it legally. its very simple.

Don't you think you're contradicting yourself?
Tax evasion is a crime, then how can you legally commit a crime? I know that tax crimes in the USA have no statute of limitations.

larry_vw_1955, why are you making excuses? The system does everything to ensure that the majority of people are its slaves. If this is not the case, then it is a bad system.

a bad system for who? the majority of the people?

i heard biden is trying to make it a felony if you don't file your tax return for 3 out of 5 years and then the penalty would be jail time and maybe something more. that's part of his budget proposal for 2025. it applies to rich people. not working folks.  

i think i heard it may be a 5 year jail term. just enough time to get acclimated to life on the inside...

It all depends on the system and its tasks. If the system does not fulfill its tasks, then it is bad for the state and good for the people.
And vice versa. After all, the interests of the state and the interests of people do not always coincide.
And the fact that the court gives longer prison sentences for tax crimes than for murder or similar crimes is a problem of your judicial system.

[larry_vw_1955]

Don't you think you're contradicting yourself?
Tax evasion is a crime, then how can you legally commit a crime? I know that tax crimes in the USA have no statute of limitations.

he's not evading taxes. he's avoiding them by doing particular types of things which are legal... and trust me, i'm sure the IRS knows about him. and looks over his tax returns every single year VERY CAREFULLY. oh, and he even invests some of his money into bitcoin among other things. as a side thing. care to guess who he is? i bet he is rolling around in tens of millions of dollars if not more in liquid fiat currency right now. and could buy anything he wanted. that type of thing.

It all depends on the system and its tasks. If the system does not fulfill its tasks, then it is bad for the state and good for the people.
And vice versa. After all, the interests of the state and the interests of people do not always coincide.
And the fact that the court gives longer prison sentences for tax crimes than for murder or similar crimes is a problem of your judicial system.

Well, the "state" and the people are not on an equal level. The state prints all the money. They print it and it immediately becomes valuable just because they printed it. and it looks nice and people can't easily make fake copies of it. does that sound like a very good system to you?

[zasad@]

Don't you think you're contradicting yourself?
Tax evasion is a crime, then how can you legally commit a crime? I know that tax crimes in the USA have no statute of limitations.

he's not evading taxes. he's avoiding them by doing particular types of things which are legal... and trust me, i'm sure the IRS knows about him. and looks over his tax returns every single year VERY CAREFULLY. oh, and he even invests some of his money into bitcoin among other things. as a side thing. care to guess who he is? i bet he is rolling around in tens of millions of dollars if not more in liquid fiat currency right now. and could buy anything he wanted. that type of thing.

It all depends on the system and its tasks. If the system does not fulfill its tasks, then it is bad for the state and good for the people.
And vice versa. After all, the interests of the state and the interests of people do not always coincide.
And the fact that the court gives longer prison sentences for tax crimes than for murder or similar crimes is a problem of your judicial system.

Well, the "state" and the people are not on an equal level. The state prints all the money. They print it and it immediately becomes valuable just because they printed it. and it looks nice and people can't easily make fake copies of it. does that sound like a very good system to you?

You and I live in different countries with different mentalities. In Russia, an average exchanger on the wholesale market in Moscow can change 10-20 million dollars in a day or half a day. Nobody pays taxes on this. A lot of goods come to Russia from China and Chinese sellers accept cryptocurrencies without any problems. If earlier merchants carried dollars across the border, now rarely anyone does this thanks to the introduction of cryptocurrencies.
If your friend cheated the tax system and tells his friends about it, then he is taking a city risk.

Thanks to cryptocurrencies, you can now print your own money.

[larry_vw_1955]

You and I live in different countries with different mentalities. In Russia, an average exchanger on the wholesale market in Moscow can change 10-20 million dollars in a day or half a day. Nobody pays taxes on this.

guaranteed nothing like that could exist in the usa. you could have to kyc every single customer and document how much they exchanged and if it is over a certain amount you would also have to report that to the authorities. i am sure about that.

If your friend cheated the tax system and tells his friends about it, then he is taking a city risk.

he didn't cheat anything. he just took advantage of how things are. there are certain ways to get income without having to pay any taxes on it and he took that to the extreme i guess! all legal. and he brags about it. and normal everyday people watch in disbelief. since they didn't think that could be done. since they're paying taxes of course.

Thanks to cryptocurrencies, you can now print your own money.

and be subject even more regulation from the usa government than if you just used their fiat currency. the irs is going to be cracking down and doing alot more audits of wealthy people i heard. they got some extra funding to do more auditing. so they're really looking for people to BUST.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/taxes/irs-says-its-audits-are-about-to-surge-heres-who-it-is-targeting/ar-AA1o2S2x?ocid=BingNewsSerp

[zasad@]

larry_vw_1955, I already told you that many expats live in the USA and people, when meeting in person, exchange cryptocurrency in the USA for dollars and back without registration or other tax reports.
I understand that this is illegal in the US, but it exists.

In any country there are gaps in tax legislation, but as soon as people start using it often, these holes close. According to Russian practice, such opportunities last from 6 months to several years. And the most cunning ones will then face a comprehensive tax audit.

And when there are a lot of rich people in a country, then it’s time to replenish the country’s budget.

[larry_vw_1955]

larry_vw_1955, I already told you that many expats live in the USA and people, when meeting in person, exchange cryptocurrency in the USA for dollars and back without registration or other tax reports.
I understand that this is illegal in the US, but it exists.

you can't really stop people from doing p2p transfers with bitcoin. fiat can't really be tracked unless it is part of the banking system. not all fiat is in the banking system. but with that said you do have to trust the other party not to snitch on you.

but don't you think this declaration on the IRS individual tax returns which demands them to disclose if they have been involved in cryptocurrency isn't that just kind of like them telling people to raise your hand if you think you're a good person for us to audit? i would think so. i think they need a better way to enforce reporting than to put people on a "goodwill" system. that's kind of like self checkout. you're just inviting people to be dishonest. with SECRETIVE HIDDEN systems in place to try and catch them. rather than doing your job yourself.

people shouldn't have to be forced to incriminate themself. i think the IRS asking them a question like that kind of violates their 5th amendment rights.  

[zasad@]

larry_vw_1955, I already told you that many expats live in the USA and people, when meeting in person, exchange cryptocurrency in the USA for dollars and back without registration or other tax reports.
I understand that this is illegal in the US, but it exists.

you can't really stop people from doing p2p transfers with bitcoin. fiat can't really be tracked unless it is part of the banking system. not all fiat is in the banking system. but with that said you do have to trust the other party not to snitch on you.

but don't you think this declaration on the IRS individual tax returns which demands them to disclose if they have been involved in cryptocurrency isn't that just kind of like them telling people to raise your hand if you think you're a good person for us to audit? i would think so. i think they need a better way to enforce reporting than to put people on a "goodwill" system. that's kind of like self checkout. you're just inviting people to be dishonest. with SECRETIVE HIDDEN systems in place to try and catch them. rather than doing your job yourself.

people shouldn't have to be forced to incriminate themself. i think the IRS asking them a question like that kind of violates their 5th amendment rights.  

Most likely, the organizer of such an exchange will be recruited by a special service in the United States and will transmit all data on exchanges. But in Russia, such people do not live long or their lives are not very peaceful. Their cars and houses are usually on fire and they are afraid to walk calmly down the street.
And if someone is engaged in activities that are not quite legal, he should not communicate with the police or tax authorities without his lawyer. Most people don't know their legal rights, but a good lawyer can help.

[larry_vw_1955]

Most likely, the organizer of such an exchange will be recruited by a special service in the United States and will transmit all data on exchanges. But in Russia, such people do not live long or their lives are not very peaceful. Their cars and houses are usually on fire and they are afraid to walk calmly down the street.
And if someone is engaged in activities that are not quite legal, he should not communicate with the police or tax authorities without his lawyer. Most people don't know their legal rights, but a good lawyer can help.

the USA government is probably behind AgoraDesk and LocalMonero being shut down. Since they couldn't control it, they had to try and shut them down instead. AgoraDesk didn't want to "snitch" on their users. So they just closed down even though they were not even located in the usa.

the IRS wants it so the only place you can buy or sell bitcoin is through companies who are legally required to snitch on you.   that's pretty much what it is coming to it seems like.

not only that but they want to make you incriminate yourself by answering questions about your crypto activity under the assumption that you are not to be trusted. even though there's almost nowhere you can exchange bitcoin without being reported, they still want to make you answer some dumb questions. kind of like putting your hand on the bible and swearing to tell the truth as though that really means anything.

[zasad@]

Most likely, the organizer of such an exchange will be recruited by a special service in the United States and will transmit all data on exchanges. But in Russia, such people do not live long or their lives are not very peaceful. Their cars and houses are usually on fire and they are afraid to walk calmly down the street.
And if someone is engaged in activities that are not quite legal, he should not communicate with the police or tax authorities without his lawyer. Most people don't know their legal rights, but a good lawyer can help.

the USA government is probably behind AgoraDesk and LocalMonero being shut down. Since they couldn't control it, they had to try and shut them down instead. AgoraDesk didn't want to "snitch" on their users. So they just closed down even though they were not even located in the usa.

the IRS wants it so the only place you can buy or sell bitcoin is through companies who are legally required to snitch on you.   that's pretty much what it is coming to it seems like.

not only that but they want to make you incriminate yourself by answering questions about your crypto activity under the assumption that you are not to be trusted. even though there's almost nowhere you can exchange bitcoin without being reported, they still want to make you answer some dumb questions. kind of like putting your hand on the bible and swearing to tell the truth as though that really means anything.

If the government has closed several decentralized exchanges, then other exchanges will appear in their place that will operate more securely.
I think you have heard a lot of news about searches and closures of stock exchanges in Russia in the large trading business center Moscow City.
One crypto company closes, and a month later a similar company opens in the next office, which is already taking into account the sad experience of its former neighbors.