[Theymos] To reduce tension from adding more merits source

[lovesmayfamilis]

You are very sensitive, OP. The forum is not a kindergarten. If a person cannot, then it is he who needs to try harder and not pat him on the head and wipe his snot. 

You are absolutely correct my dear sister from another country..
But we must know that forum is a bit tough though but with the help everyone will be happy, I don't have any interest to gain or lose anything if this is not implement but everyone should be involved in the freedom of the forum. If I could recall, the forum sole purpose is freedom and awareness of bitcoin across the globe, so everyone should have that freedom to enjoy everything that comes from bitcoin and it's forum, but this doesn't mean spam and Plagiarism should be tolerated or poorly account should be given this requirements.

Why do you think learning about Bitcoin requires merit? Your idea only contributes to an increase in rank. You can read and ask questions about Bitcoin for free. Moreover, as was already noted here earlier, this is precisely what makes the forum unique. Now everything is for sale, but there is live communication. Go and eat knowledge.

I know your reasons for wanting to help everyone who wants to rise in rank, and I am not at all against it, understanding how important it is for some countries to participate in signature companies. But please, let's not confuse different concepts, ranks, and knowledge. This is where I think there will be equality.

[Dr.Bitcoin_Strange]

If the merit system is automated in such a manner according to your idea, I don't think it will contribute to a high-quality posters on the forum but rather will contribute to higher-ranking members who will yet be acting like newbies. Yeah, merit is used to applaud a quality post or comment. Merit encourages some members to improve their post quality in order to receive merit, but merit itself doesn't determine the post quality of every user, so even if the merit system is designed like your idea, it will contribute to higher ranks of low-quality posters, which therefore doesn't make much sense to me. 

In my honest opinion, adding to the limited number of merit sources on the forum, it is better to have a more real member as a merit source who can properly access the quality of user posts before they award merit to them. @OP, If the merit system is automated like your idea, there are a lot of people who can show high effort on their post quality, and once they have archived the 70–80 merit, they will all feel reluctant to believe that the merit system will automatically complete their merit. That's going to give rise to a different circle of members who become very high-quality posters but, at some point, drop in quality. 

[SmartGold01]

theymos can set the system whereby if you gained 70 to 80 merits the system should automatically credit you 20 to 30 merits instantly without having to apply for merits counts down

That's like lowering the Merit requirement for Full Member to 70 instead of 100 Merit. And the "count down" as you call it would simply start earlier: "I have 60 Merits now, I only need 10 more to reach my free bump from 70 to 100". Let's not do this.

Yes you are correct but they must earned the 80 merits required on their own before system should be able to credit them though there may be a compromise but the best is to factor the possible way to handle it if this idea isn't good, I am fine, pretty cool with (you) everyone's suggestion and contributions. Although I don't find anything attached to this but if this can't help the system then we can let it be the way its. Is just an idea to see what to do.

If you need/want 50 Merit, just make a good post and make me or other Merit sources see it.

Well sincerely speaking I don't know how you rate your quality post but if you feels like dumping them on my profile it takes only few minute to dump such huge volume by clicking my profile to see post that worth it, I believe there are other several members who are coming across my profile doesn't feels like giving merits maybe till I report to them which is not cool although I know people are very busy with what they are doing both physical and online here.

This comes to mind:

undoubtedly some people got screwed by this, and if they have decent posts, by all means, give them the 250 or 500 merit that they need to rank-up.

I have never seen this happening in this forum and I never came across someone dumping such amount to a user at a go. Seems this aspect of theymos post is dead and eliminate from here. However seeing this quote theymos made me feels like everything is fine then we can say that circulation is low since he already brought up this suggestion.

You are very sensitive, OP. The forum is not a kindergarten. If a person cannot, then it is he who needs to try harder and not pat him on the head and wipe his snot.

~snip

I know your reasons for wanting to help everyone who wants to rise in rank, and I am not at all against it, understanding how important it is for some countries to participate in signature companies. But please, let's not confuse different concepts, ranks, and knowledge. This is where I think there will be equality.

Thank you for the clarification I holds nothing on anyone's contribution and I appreciate everything they have all said.
People should be able to gain knowledge and at the curse of learning merits can flow to their respective profile if they are doing what is right.

[Odohu]

For there to be several topics regarding merits not circulating lately, then there is definitely some substance in it, hence, I appreciate the OP lending her voice and giving us the opportunity to deliberate on it and chart a way forward like every family will do when things are not going as expected.

I have seen many people suggest that it was a dearth of quality posts that lead to the reduction in the circulation of merits, I don't agree with this completely because old members of the forum will not intentionally reduce their post quality, at least I don't know what the rational for doing this could be.

What I think is responsible for this poor merit circulation includes but not limited to:

• Increase in number of new members with a decrease in number of merit sources
• Merit disparity in the general boards and the local boards: Most merit sources share their merits in their respective local boards and scantly on the general boards. Consequently, local boards with merit sources continue to enjoy abundant flow of merits even with poor quality of posts whereas others with no merit source are dry
• Judging the quality of post by the rank of the creator: I have seen this happen a lot of times, where a lower ranking member will make good post but no merits will be given whereas a higher ranking member can just "cough" and be merited even in the same thread

What is suggest as solution does not including adding automated system that rank up members who got to certain level like the OP suggested. Instead, merit sources should be encouraged to continue looking more in the general boards and also visit local boards without merit sources and spread the merits to merit deserving posts irrespective of the ranks of their creators. Furthermore, that some people are abusing the system does not mean everyone should be punished for it and withholding the merits does not also help the forum in anyway.

[criptoevangelista]

I always imagined that participating in a forum the priority is to talk, interact with people, get involved, participate, make friends, contacts, create a reputation. The merits are a bonus for this.

If a user makes an effort, is dedicated and is participating here in an organic and genuine way, if the user enjoys being here and participating... things will happen naturally...

The merit system in my opinion is very good.

[GiftedMAN]

I always imagined that participating in a forum the priority is to talk, interact with people, get involved, participate, make friends, contacts, create a reputation, the merits are a bonus for this, if a user makes an effort, is dedicated and is participating here in an organic and genuine way, if the user enjoys being here and participating... things will happen naturally... the merit system in my opinion is very good.

I believe the points you listed out are the main reasons why the forum was created and over the years a lot of people including me has benefited so much from the forum through the discussions, informations, some contacts that has been very useful in and outside here that alone is much more than the merits which I consider to be very easy to get. Now I think some people in the forum believes that number of merits which takes someone to the next ranks is used to determine the knowledge of the person that's why they put in so much efforts to rank up not minding if the primary reasons why the forum was created is achieved, maybe often times a reminder should be made to encourage people to stop hunting for something they can easily get freely rather they should keep learning and contributing towards the betterment of the forum and her members merits will be given to them once their efforts are noticed. A newbie who struggles to move to the next rank can receive tons of merits tomorrow after getting knowledge and sharing it here so that it will benefit others so to me it's not about the merits alone what you do to get it should be considered also.

[LoyceV]

If you need/want 50 Merit, just make a good post and make me or other Merit sources see it.

Well sincerely speaking I don't know how you rate your quality post but if you feels like dumping them on my profile it takes only few minute

If you think it's too much work to find your own good posts, why would you think I want to spend time on it?

Well sincerely speaking I don't know how you rate your quality post but if you feels like dumping them on my profile it takes only few minute to dump such huge volume by clicking my profile to see post that worth it, I believe there are other several members who are coming across my profile doesn't feels like giving merits maybe till I report to them which is not cool although I know people are very busy with what they are doing both physical and online here.

Read A Quick Guide to Punctuation. Even better if you read back your own text before posting. That's step 1 towards earning more Merit.

[NotATether]

Don't you think it is a little counter-intuitive if users are able to earn merits by themselves, just like activity? As far as I know, one of the main reasons that Theymos implemented the merit system in the first place is to prevent abuse that stems out of self-ranking. So in that case, I think it is up to the merit sources to create ideas to distribute more merit to people.

[tranthidung]

Seems this aspect of theymos post is dead and eliminate from here. However seeing this quote theymos made me feels like everything is fine then we can say that circulation is low since he already brought up this suggestion.

It is only an exaggeration from theymos because he coded the merit system with a restriction that one user is only allowed to send a maximum 50 merit to another user within 30 days.

• History of bitcointalk.org's rank system
• One year anniversary of merit system with some adjustments of merit system since its kick-off.

[Majestic-milf]

 You know, there are some suggestions when made sounds so absurd and this is one of them, no offense. This is like saying all a newbie needs to do is come here, make some posts, gain a good rep and then set his/her mind on getting 70 merits to move to the next rank. You should know that merits are earned and as such, if they don't meet the requirements to earning it, it doesn't matter whether they need to get to 70 or not, it will still dissuade them. @bitcoingirlclub makes a lot of sense and this your suggestion is like trying to being considerate of their efforts. The thing is, if you can get ten, you can get 100, it's all a matter of patience and consistency.
 Some of the suggestions people bring up here looks more like  it's for their benefit rather than for the growth of the forum and to be honest, if one of such gets implemented, there will be more and more sick changes till the forum becomes unrecognizable. I know change is constant, but meh, there's some that's not worth considering.

[348Judah]

Theymos knows what he is doing and i don't think we need to remind him of what he has taken as a responsibility, ours is to apply fir one if we think we are been qualified enough to be a merit source, while the existing merits sources who think they have to demand for more allocation can on their own speak out and reach on him for that, i still want to believe that some merits sources are finding it difficult to exhaust their monthly allocation all because they hardly finds some post deserving for such or meeting up to their quality standard, there are threads one can applied to for merits if he thinks he is a quality poster.

[SmartGold01]

If you need/want 50 Merit, just make a good post and make me or other Merit sources see it.

Well sincerely speaking I don't know how you rate your quality post but if you feels like dumping them on my profile it takes only few minute

If you think it's too much work to find your own good posts, why would you think I want to spend time on it?

~snip~

Read A Quick Guide to Punctuation. Even better if you read back your own text before posting. That's step 1 towards earning more Merit.

Thank you for the guiding material you shared, I have actually reported few of my post though there are lot but have to start with those posted on your topic. Sorry if you finds my reply annoying.
Haven seen what you shared makes me to understand how you do justify post qualities, maybe it could be nice if others who always looks at post quality to also give their judgement the way they do evaluates their posts.

[Mia Chloe]

Implementing new merit sources or generally tampering the merit system is actually mathematical based if you observe closely. Take for example what you said is implemented, members will make posts and earn merits but since there are no merit sources to replenish the forum's circulating s merits, a time will come when every single member on the forum will totally run out of smerits so what then happens?

Merit is mainly a ranking up requirement and it's limited supply is what makes merit valuable on the forum because if there was too much s merits on the forum, I bet you merit will totally lost its value. This is the normal demand supply logic. I am sure Theymos is trying to balance this at the back door via smerits allocated to merit sources.

[BitcoinGirl.Club]

If the problem is in the sources of merit, then making these sources elective, just as in DT, or applying other solutions may help, but automation is definitely not a part of it to avoid easy manipulation of the system.

I agree to the point that I don't want any automation too in merit source. DT is controversial because of the semi automation. There are groups who are easily manipulating it. Except only a few [I think one or two unfortunate cases] merit sources are less controversial only because there are extensive review before making someone a merit source.

since the sources aren't that active to credits merits to people or those who has it are just spending it on WO without even spreading it across just like the way DdmrDdmr does. And of curse you are correct if those that are not receiving merits are sleeping they should keep sleeping maybe when they decides to wake up they can start from where they

You are making a lot of accusations now.
Merit sources are not active.
You are again accusing Merit sources that they are wasting their merits on WO.
You are accusing DdmrDdmr that he way of giving merit is wrong.

[Woodie]

Your proposal is not different than reduce requirement for Full member rank to 70 or 80 earned merit. So why don't propose to reduce the requirement?

Seems we took the long route when the shortcut was as discribed above ,  "reduce the requiremen"

And I think constant airdrops could complicate the process and create a problem for the mods with threads such as when is my airdrop, where is my merit and this is not the time for self inflicted problems...and btw, proposal to reduce rank requirements isnt a bad idea, but is the current system broken..I dont think so and the fact that the forum is here to stay no need to rush the process lets keep it as is as it wont be fun chatting with legends everywhere  !!

[The Sceptical Chymist]

since the sources aren't that active to credits merits to people or those who has it are just spending it on WO without even spreading it across just like the way DdmrDdmr does. And of curse you are correct if those that are not receiving merits are sleeping they should keep sleeping maybe when they decides to wake up they can start from where they

You are making a lot of accusations now.
Merit sources are not active.
You are again accusing Merit sources that they are wasting their merits on WO.
You are accusing DdmrDdmr that he way of giving merit is wrong.

A lot of merit sources have gone inactive, haven't they?  I don't know what the data looks like since I don't know precisely who's a merit source, but I can't imagine all of the original sources plus the ones Theymos added in 2019 (like me) are still blasting out merits like they were in the beginning.  Plus there have been a few that have left the forum, like o_e_l_e_o.

And as far as "wasting merits" on threads like the WO one, keep in mind that a lot of merit sources have a big stash of sMerits they've earned from their own posts.  Myself, I've got over 200 sMerits in addition to my monthly merit source allocation, so unless a source is consistently meriting low-value posts there shouldn't be an issue.

And it might go against the basic tenant of merit system itself, you really need to work hard and reach that needed merit to rank up.

OP's post is way longer than it has to be (and my attention span too short for a close reading of below-average English), but if I understand his point then I agree with you.  Merits need to be earned, and they need to be scarce.  It should be fairly difficult to earn them but not so hard that tons of members are left behind in the ranking system; once again, I wonder about what Theymos is thinking in terms of the state of the merit system and whether some new merit sources need to be added.  Judging by his actions, I'd say he thinks everything is A-OK.

I also ranked up with the help of members like The Sceptical Chymist.

Happy to help, and members who've benefited from anyone, whether they're a merit source or not, should use the sMerits they have at their disposal to give back to others who need them to rank up.  The onus isn't solely on merit sources to help people rank up.  It should be a community concern, no?  

[Hatchy]

Happy to help, and members who've benefited from anyone, whether they're a merit source or not, should use the sMerits they have at their disposal to give back to others who need them to rank up.  The onus isn't solely on merit sources to help people rank up.  It should be a community concern, no?  

Same thing I had said some time ago in one of my reply. Alot of members complains about the low merit supply from merit source, but we shouldn't forget the fact that there are some members who receive a lot of merit from these available merit sources but are still holding their s merits and this i think is wrong.

When we receive merits, we are give a certain amount of s merit which we are meant to send back to the community upon finding a quality post. Then why hold them. We shouldn't forget that we were also merited by some other members who saw our post as quality. So don't just pass by a quality post and only comment that the post is of good quality, but also if you have a stash of smerits do well to send some to that member. This way, merit supply would be a bit balanced and we won't be all brothered about merit sources not being available all the time. And beside,Theymos has his reasons for being silent. If this issue was really pressing I know by now, he would have looked into it already.

[Adbitco]

There is many people who has been wanting for the system to change for something more easier but instead of that the system is getting more stricter than you can imagine, I know this request won't be honored but i really appreciate you for your efforts. theymos has not pay much attention to anything about merits be it adjusting, adding more merits source and whatever. I will just advise you to move on besides you managed to gained about 700 plus which you are not far from becoming a legendary or do i say is a potential legendary just few merits left, and I am not a merits source to have rewards you with some. 

[SmartGold01]

since the sources aren't that active to credits merits to people or those who has it are just spending it on WO without even spreading it across just like the way DdmrDdmr does. And of curse you are correct if those that are not receiving merits are sleeping they should keep sleeping maybe when they decides to wake up they can start from where they

You are making a lot of accusations now.
Merit sources are not active.
You are again accusing Merit sources that they are wasting their merits on WO.
You are accusing DdmrDdmr that he way of giving merit is wrong.

Never I my accusing anyone but in case of DdmrDdmr, he is doing the right thing and he is spending it wisely if I may get you correctly.
I am just saying if they merits sources keeps spending it the way DdmrDdmr does then there will be limited complained about merits circulation since he spends it very well on his spray. You just need to understand my point and not accusing anyone here, though what I brought here is only but a suggestion so if they aren't honored we move and nothing much.

Thank you.

[robelneo]

If the problem is in the sources of merit, then making these sources elective, just as in DT, or applying other solutions may help,

I think this one deserves a discussion and a poll I'm on a consensus that adding a consensus gets to be the merit source aside from applying to be a merit source.

but automation is definitely not a part of it to avoid easy manipulation of the system.

If automation is in place the posting motivation of those who seek to rank will diminish, because they will have to follow the system and not work on it.