MemoryDealers aka Roger Ver Arrested!

[JollyGood]

Very well spotted. Maybe Ver is not allowed to leave Mallorca but if he were allowed to leave he can theoretically drive to other countries but not via a checkpoint because passports will be checked.

There are 29 countries within the Schengen Area and the way the system is supposed to work is that when someone enters the Schengen Area they are logged in the immigration system and after that can move around seamlessly within the boundaries of the member states. How it works in practical terms is unknown because if all citizens on bail in any one country could travel to another part of the Schengen Area to escape going to Court, it would be problematic. Maybe the EU think tanks covered that scenario.

Having said that, there are still checkpoints and country entry/exit points where passports do get checked because not all people that travel will be EU residents therefore will have passports checked.

Stupid American Question: I know in the Schengen zone you can drive from country to country without stopping at borders. Yes, technically he is on an island at the moment, but if say Ver was in Madrid what would stop him from hopping in a car and driving to France? Is there any kind of monitoring that is done?

Kind of like here in the US, unless they make you wear an ankle monitor you can in theory hop in a car and go anywhere in the US. It's not legal and if you are caught there are penalties but there is nothing stopping you.

[dkbit98]

Interesting that he wasn't extradited. I don't understand how the US can hold a tax trial in Spain.

His lawyers were communicating with authorities before, so there was no reason to arrest him like that, but they probably wanted to affect everyone else with news of his arrest.

Stupid American Question: I know in the Schengen zone you can drive from country to country without stopping at borders. Yes, technically he is on an island at the moment, but if say Ver was in Madrid what would stop him from hopping in a car and driving to France? Is there any kind of monitoring that is done?

He has to report to court every few days, and they have his passport.
In theory he could travel to most EU countries without problem, but he could not leave EU unless he has another passport.
To much risk doing this, and than they would have the reason to put him in prison for a very long time.
I think he is going to pay extortion money in the end.

[dkbit98]

Believe it or not Roger Ver still can't leave Spain after he paid $160,000 bail in May of this year, and he has to report to officials all the time.
His lawyers filed a motion to dismiss the criminal indictment against him for $50 million tax evasion.
Let's put aside what I think about Roger, they didn't have to arrest him because he was already negotiating payment with government officials.
https://decrypt.co/294694/roger-ver-files-motion-to-dismiss-justice-department-indictment

[mindrust]

Being stuck in Spain It is not exactly the worst punishment. I wish I was locked up in Spain too. Yo hablo no Espanol sangria sangria Senor! bebes sangria? Aah, I miss Spain. Wonderful Sangria, wonderful Senoras.

I wonder, If I don’t pay my taxes too, would the taxman also banish me to Spain?

Rodger-sama knows his shit well.

[franky1]

ver wants it all dismissed because he says he has been communicating with IRS for a decade
BUT he hasnt paid tax in that decade, so its still evasion

the article a couple posts ago tries to say that Ver hasnt paid tax due to regulatory and tax status changes.. citing how now with trump starting a new presidency in 2025 that somehow allows ver to continue with the negotiation delays

however taxes do not work like that
if ver owes tax in 2014 and 2017 then he should pay the tax of those years based on the tax regulations of those tax years. not try to say that in 202X tax laws changed so he disagree's with the amounts owed in 2014 and 2017

the amounts in 2017 are about the laws of 2017. he shouldnt be trying to do these delay tactics of waiting out new tax law changes to then pretend he doesnt owe old tax amounts due to new laws

if he just negotiated an amount to pay to settle the dispute, then he could have solved things. but instead he seems to be pretending that each years tax law changes means a specific year gets void of debt

in short he still owes the IRS tax for 2014 and 2017 based on the tax regulations of those tax years

[nutildah]

I wish I was locked up in Spain too.

He's not locked up, he's been out on bail since May 17. However, restricting his movement still isn't very cool.

[nullama]

These cases are a bit silly to talk in public because all that actually matters is usually private stuff...

In any case, it is interesting to see what the situation of this person is, so that if another person tries to do something similar they will know what to expect.

From a couple of videos I've seen, it seems he need a bit more of a legal advice before he says things like there's no tax, etc...

[dkbit98]

Here is a good example how support given to someone in hard situation can be a good example for all of us.
When Ross Ulbricht was in prison for years Roger Ver was supporting him in many ways, and he helped supporting many campaigns.
Now situation is reversed and Ross is supporting Roger to be released from his captivity in Spain.
#FreeRoger


https://x.com/RealRossU/status/1892619346293231741

[bbc.reporter]

Here is a good example how support given to someone in hard situation can be a good example for all of us.
When Ross Ulbricht was in prison for years Roger Ver was supporting him in many ways, and he helped supporting many campaigns.
Now situation is reversed and Ross is supporting Roger to be released from his captivity in Spain.
#FreeRoger


https://x.com/RealRossU/status/1892619346293231741

It appears that there are presently more cryptocoin founders who are beginning to express their support for Roger. Similar to the community's campaign to free Ross, I reckon everyone in the community should also support the campaign for free Roger.

I very much agree to Vitalik's argument that no one should be given a life sentence only because of tax excavation.



Now, many industry veterans are coming to his support, including Ethereum co-founder Vitalik Buterin, who called the potential sentence “absurd.”

“Going to prison for the rest of your life over non-violent tax offenses is absurd,” Buterin said on a social media post. “The case against Roger seems very politically motivated; like with Ross Ulbricht, there have been plenty of people and corporations who have been accused of far worse and yet faced sentences far milder than what Roger is facing.”

Similarly, Kraken founder Jesse Powell has argued in Ver’s defense. “The reality is, they just don't like him and they want to get him, and they will use any excuse they can to get him or make his life hell for as long as they can.”

Read in full https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2025/03/01/ethereum-co-founder-vitalik-buterin-calls-roger-ver-s-potential-life-sentence-absurd

[NotATether]

Exactly, guys. We should put our animosity aside and work to get Roger Ver free, just like we campaigned to get Ross Ulbricht out.

Although I don't know how we are going to do that - he is being detained in Spain, for c
"crimes" that he committed to the USA, and I don't think he has even had a trial yet.

[nutildah]

I very much agree to Vitalik's argument that no one should be given a life sentence only because of tax excavation.

Pretty sure you meant tax evasion, but yeah I'm also in agreement with the noseminer. It reminds me a lot of the story of Peter Schiff's dad, Irwin Schiff, who died in a "hospital prison" at age 87, after spending much of his professional life arguing that income tax was illegal and teaching people how to evade taxes. He was sentenced to 13.5 years at 78 for tax evasion, effectively a life sentence at that age. Right or wrong, sometimes its just better to do what the government says.

[ABCbits]

From Bitcoin.com, i found someone create a website about this matter on https://www.freerogernow.org/.

Exactly, guys. We should put our animosity aside and work to get Roger Ver free, just like we campaigned to get Ross Ulbricht out.

Although I don't know how we are going to do that - he is being detained in Spain, for c
"crimes" that he committed to the USA, and I don't think he has even had a trial yet.

Spain cooperate with US, where he's waiting to be extradited to US since all appeals got denied[1]. So i guess protesting to US government is best bet, where some people hope Trump will intervene.

[1] https://news.bitcoin.com/roger-vers-legal-battle-intensifies-as-spain-denies-appeal-trump-urged-to-act/

[JollyGood]

My understanding is that Ver did have several extradition hearings where a judge (not a jury) decides on his fate. The result of one (maybe the first) was to hold him in custody until a decision was made. At another hearing Ver was given bail on condition his travel was restricted and at another hearing he was told he would be extradited. He had another hearing where he was told his appeal had failed.

I think Trump will give him a pardon because Musk has been campaigning for Ver.

Exactly, guys. We should put our animosity aside and work to get Roger Ver free, just like we campaigned to get Ross Ulbricht out.

Although I don't know how we are going to do that - he is being detained in Spain, for c
"crimes" that he committed to the USA, and I don't think he has even had a trial yet.

[franky1]

Exactly, guys. We should put our animosity aside and work to get Roger Ver free, just like we campaigned to get Ross Ulbricht out.

Although I don't know how we are going to do that - he is being detained in Spain, for c
"crimes" that he committed to the USA, and I don't think he has even had a trial yet.

ulbricht is saying "let ver pay the tax and be done with it"
true.. but ver doesnt want to pay the tax. and thats the hold-up/dispute
he instead is taking bad incompetent advice from an accountant that told him not to pay US tax now he is not an american..
yet ex-pat tax laws apply to ver

i agree tax should be a civil matter, not a criminal matter. so shouldnt be about prison time but simply fines, sanctions and other civil penalty[liens on property]

also ver is rich enough to have had a competent tax accountant that should have known best practices to have avoided the dispute in the first place

[mindrust]

Exactly, guys. We should put our animosity aside and work to get Roger Ver free, just like we campaigned to get Ross Ulbricht out.

Although I don't know how we are going to do that - he is being detained in Spain, for c
"crimes" that he committed to the USA, and I don't think he has even had a trial yet.

ulbricht is saying "let ver pay the tax and be done with it"
true.. but ver doesnt want to pay the tax. and thats the hold-up/dispute
he instead is taking bad incompetent advice from an accountant that told him not to pay US tax now he is not an american..
yet ex-pat tax laws apply to ver

i agree tax should be a civil matter, not a criminal matter. so shouldnt be about prison time but simply fines, sanctions and other civil penalty[liens on property]

also ver is rich enough to have had a competent tax accountant that should have known best practices to have avoided the dispute in the first place

If that’s the case, it is very sad for RV. Peter Schiff’s father fought the same fight and lost. He died in prison. What makes him think he can win? He has everything he needs in life, except for his freedom and he decided to be the tough guy.

We all eventually will be forced to fight for our own freedom btw. I know that day will come.

Just like how the French did back then against the church.

After all, He decided to play Che Guevera huh?

Good luck comrade Rodger.

[nullama]

~snip~
ulbricht is saying "let ver pay the tax and be done with it"
true.. but ver doesnt want to pay the tax. and thats the hold-up/dispute
he instead is taking bad incompetent advice from an accountant that told him not to pay US tax now he is not an american..
yet ex-pat tax laws apply to ver

i agree tax should be a civil matter, not a criminal matter. so shouldnt be about prison time but simply fines, sanctions and other civil penalty[liens on property]

also ver is rich enough to have had a competent tax accountant that should have known best practices to have avoided the dispute in the first place

Isn't tax evasion in the US a thing you can end up in jail though?

Al Capone was sentenced to prison for tax evasion for example: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2018/10/17/al-capone-sentenced-to-prison-for-tax-evasion-on-this-day-in-1931

And if Roger Ver renounced his US citizenship, then at that exact time he should have paid all the taxes as if he basically sold all his assets. This is well known, and commonly called an "exit tax".

[LoyceV]

true.. but ver doesnt want to pay the tax. and thats the hold-up/dispute

That's just dumb. I don't want to pay taxes either, but I do it anyway because I don't like the consequences of not paying.

Isn't tax evasion in the US a thing you can end up in jail though?

Not only in the US, many countries do the same. Don't touch the government's funding.

[franky1]

true.. but ver doesnt want to pay the tax. and thats the hold-up/dispute

That's just dumb. I don't want to pay taxes either, but I do it anyway because I don't like the consequences of not paying.

Isn't tax evasion in the US a thing you can end up in jail though?

Not only in the US, many countries do the same. Don't touch the government's funding.

yep tax evasion = prison... but should it?
side note: a competent accountant knows better tax law for a "avoid"(lawful) method rather then "evade"(unlawful)  method

put it this way, about penalties
government host the databases of housing/land registry
government host the databases of car registry/drivers licencing/passport
government host the database of social security schemes(state pension)

the government can screw people over with a click of a button after a court order, without resorting to prison time

and the funny part of this criminalisation tactic.. it costs the government money to put people into prison. where as civil asset forfeiture as a fine/penalty(court order, not unwarranted swat team home invasion) would save them money

in regards to US law, for those stuck in that build a wall prison country,
one thing i do hope trump/elons doge do perform in next 4 years,
not to pardon ver.. ver deserves to pay what he owes (based on the bills of the time he worked in the US)

but change the tax code laws to be simple .. whereby even an incompetent little guy has the same opportunity as the big guys
which means people are not screwed by incompetent accountants, or not knowing tax law personally due to tax code complexity of avoid vs evade

[mindrust]

but change the tax code laws to be simple .. whereby even an incompetent little guy has the same opportunity as the big guys
which means people are not screwed by incompetent accountants, or not knowing tax law personally due to tax code complexity of avoid vs evade

Tax laws in the US is complicated for a reason. A person like you who can produce lots of wall of text posts should know that better than anybody.

They are complicated because people always come up with clever ideas to avoid/evade them.

Whenever somebody figures out a way to dodge his taxes, the law maker comes up with a new law tax to patch it up.

You can probably evade your taxes in some other country and flee to the US without facing any consequences but the opposite will not work. Remember McAfee too.

[franky1]

most laws are made complicated for a reason
for it to then require hiring someone to then translate it

take the NY bitlicence, the guy that created that licence permitting regulation, then jumped over to the private sector and became a consultant to advise people 'how to' apply for his creation, as it was too complicated for normal businesses to understand
yep he made money out of consulting on something that could have been wrote more simply in the first place, if he didnt make it complicated to secure himself a new role.

making regulations complicated then creates a whole new industry of consultants
imagine a world where tax law was so simple it could be taught in two lesson sessions at highschool

just look at crypto with all the cludgy tech jargon thats been created over the years, words with no meaning, words that dont describe the function.. rather than straight forward adjective words.. we now have consultants and educational degree courses trying to translate things that were simpler to explain in the early adopter stage (signatures were signatures), now they are seed derived smart contract witness scripts(and thats the simplified translation)

joining bitcoins github and start coding was easy in the pre core years.. but core made things complicated as they dont like competition. they want barriers of entry from other devs taking over their repo. they want to be the go-to guys who need sponsoring

many industries do the same. heck even food, hide the recipe by showing the ingredients as some science lesson stops lil jimmy home cooking a like-for-like meal and then starting a small business to compete