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Author Topic: (Unofficial) [ANN] Litecoin [LTC] to X11 algorithm hardfork  (Read 67881 times)
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March 30, 2014, 11:23:33 PM
 #161

This is not ethical, if you have a problem with Litecoin - then make another coin, don't try to steal Litecoin's userbase. Anyways, chances this project will succeed are ridiculous, you're wasting your time.

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March 30, 2014, 11:24:42 PM
 #162

Doing this wouldn't secure LiteCoin's future. It would doom it.

ASIC doesn't mean you loose decentralization. I mine both with GPUs and with ASICs. ASICs are cheaper, faster, energy efficient. The energy efficiency means someone like myself who doesn’t own a datacenter with 1000s of AMPs of power can mine 100s of MegaHashs. If you stay with GPUs then in the future only people with lots of time, money, large scale cooling, and power can mine the coin for profit.

Again ASICs means you can mine coin for *cheaper* up front costs.
Again ASICs means you can mine coin for *less* power.
Again ASICs means you can *scale* your mining operation to larger heights without having data-center like resources.
Again ASICs means more coin, for less energy, to *more people*, faster.

ASICs should not be feared.

People do not like that they will have to spend more money after buying a lot of GPUs that may have not yet gotten a ROI. That is understandable. And there are other Coins out there that are still GPU only. So there is no need to throw in the towel. Why not look into up-in-coming coin ideas. Like SecureCoin, or FairQuark. Or some of the N-Scrypt coins.

If you make a coin that tries to replace LiteCoin but is more ASIC resistant you will just... lower.. the difficulty of ... litecoin... hrmm... GO GO GO dam those dirty ASICs for taking over LiteCoin... ALL GPU miners should just leave now! Power to the ... rrr... X11 Coin!? woot!

p.s:
Also... X11!? De-frack? You REALLY wanna name your coin after a monolithic horrible bundle of miss match code that is X11. Not to borrow from the Emacs haters but... X11 is a good OS, its just lacking a Window System. Actually that isn't even true... its horrible. All hail WayLand!

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March 30, 2014, 11:26:21 PM
 #163

yep , leave litecoin as it is.we dont need u messing with it.i think its quite pethetic u saying u dont care weather u get litecoin dev's support or not.to me thats just fuking rude.go make your own coin.the litecoin communtiy dont want this.y fuk with something that aint broken.

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March 30, 2014, 11:41:12 PM
 #164

LTC needs to stay scrypt to support and benefit from the scrypt asics. Why can't you just be content with mining Darkcoin? There are plenty of GPU farms out there that will certainly switch to that coin once the 250Mh KnC units begin arriving.



Agree, change the coin which mines X11, I mine DRK and I`m very satisfied.
Why do you mine DRK instead HIRO?
When I calc profit at current price for 30,000 khash /X11/:

DRK about 12 DRK daily = 0.01682 BTC
HIRO about 2000 HIRO daily = 0.0436 BTC

really don't understand how can someone mine DRK and be happy with so low earnings.
Fact is, that X11 consume about -50% electricity compare with scrypt, but anyway 0,016 daily is fuckin low for that speed




And I thing X11 for regular ltc is not good idea. Ltc is fine now, when the price jump up thanks to asics, more X11 alts will come. Thats good for GPUs future. There is new ltc for gpus - HIRO
And really decentralized network is no ASIC network, because no one can buy it "right now" /pre-orders, late delivery etc./ compare with GPUs, and ROI at invest $10,000 is discutable, if you'r not a manufacturer Smiley
Time to look at PoS coins like communitycoin, I thing big potential coin .)

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March 30, 2014, 11:44:30 PM
 #165

So let me get this straight, it's not your coin, you weren't even around during its inception, but now all the sudden you decided that its your coin?
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March 30, 2014, 11:48:47 PM
 #166

This is mildly entertaining.

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March 30, 2014, 11:55:13 PM
 #167

i bet its aprosil fools joke - but preety good one Wink

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March 31, 2014, 12:00:27 AM
 #168

And I thing X11 for regular ltc is not good idea. Ltc is fine now, when the price jump up thanks to asics, more X11 alts will come. Thats good for GPUs future. There is new ltc for gpus - HIRO
And really decentralized network is no ASIC network, because no one can buy it "right now" /pre-orders, late delivery etc./ compare with GPUs, and ROI at invest $10,000 is discutable, if you'r not a manufacturer Smiley
Time to look at PoS coins like communitycoin, I thing big potential coin .)

Kocur. Please explain to me how pre-orders or late deliveries causes coins to become centralized.

-- For the sake of niceness... Pretty please

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March 31, 2014, 12:00:37 AM
 #169

i bet its aprosil fools joke - but preety good one Wink

YES!!! aprosil fools joke!!!!  lol

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March 31, 2014, 12:04:53 AM
 #170

No. This doesn't feel right at all and I can't see Litecoin flourishing if your plan were to succeed. What unique position do you hold that you think you have any chance to make this happen?

Awful idea.

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March 31, 2014, 12:08:34 AM
 #171

And I thing X11 for regular ltc is not good idea. Ltc is fine now, when the price jump up thanks to asics, more X11 alts will come. Thats good for GPUs future. There is new ltc for gpus - HIRO
And really decentralized network is no ASIC network, because no one can buy it "right now" /pre-orders, late delivery etc./ compare with GPUs, and ROI at invest $10,000 is discutable, if you'r not a manufacturer Smiley
Time to look at PoS coins like communitycoin, I thing big potential coin .)

Kocur. Please explain to me how pre-orders or late deliveries causes coins to become centralized.

-- For the sake of niceness... Pretty please
I mean decentralized network, not coins. And because you dont have any TITAN at this time, but knc yes .)
While forgotten gpu miners r still on scrypt, other gets huge hashes for a buck. Its about it...

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March 31, 2014, 12:21:46 AM
 #172

This is a terribly short-sighted idea. I'm betting that your rationalizing this decision because you will no longer be able to mine Litecoin directly with your GPU's. A cryptocurrency should be looked at as a way to purchase goods. It was never supposed to be your own money printing machine. Grow up.
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March 31, 2014, 12:26:58 AM
 #173

Just my personal opinion:

I feel like this is just butthurt GPU miners being butthurt that Scrypt is slowly evolving to ASIC. I don't see the problem with it really to be honest:

- ASICs will provide a higher hashrate, thus it will improve on the security of the Litecoin system
- ASICs are cheaper then GPU's, not only in gear but also in terms of power and heat.
- LiteCoin will grow more professional by having a bigger hashrate, since it will be way less suspectable to 51% attacks. More trust from vendors etc.
- Scrypt ASICs have MANY other options to mine than just Litecoin, it is not like Bitcoin which is most of the times the most profitable to mine for SHA ASICs.

If you are really serious about your mining then start investing in the future and get an ASIC scrypt miner. It'll save you a bunch on your powerbills and thus (at the moment) make you more money. Throwing it on X11 would push the whole network to a way lower hashrate I expect, unless it's suddenly WAY more profitable to do. Also I don't expect the market to be particulary happy with this.


This is 100% true. This will fail miserably. The old blockchain will have more users and more hash. I haven't really heard a good reason for switching algos besides GPU miners wanting to get the best ROI. I'm all for decentralization and the dev in this thread is correct in that if he gathers enough support then his fork can become the official "LTC" blockchain. The idea that the original devs have 100% control of the blockchain moving forward defeats the purpose of having it decentralized in the first place. ASICs are like $200... go buy one if you want to keep mining! Group buy a big one. Plenty of options other than trying to fork the chain that will just cause confusion.

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March 31, 2014, 12:29:26 AM
 #174

Why buy asics if mining with them isn't profitable unless you're the manufacturer smart ass?

I won't bother posting anymore, people in here need to get an MRI scan.
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March 31, 2014, 12:47:44 AM
 #175


 Woot go for it ! and why the hell the Litecoin Dev has not been working on this since the mere rumor of Asics hitting scrypt is beyond me. When i came from Bitcoin and watching that get hit by Asics and become what it is now i jumped on Supporting Litecoin and was gung ho about it and you know why? Because it was supposedly Asic Proof.

 I support you guys here with this fork but really simply think the Litecoin Dev's should have stood to their words and changed a few lines of coding making Litecoin truly asic proof. If Litecoin did this other alts would get off there ass's and follow the benchmark you guys set..


 All i know is if the community sits back once again as us gpu miners were forced out of Bitcoin now sit back and do nothing as we are kicked out of this community then that's just pathetic.

 The company that even though about making Asics for Script as nothing more then pathetic bottom feeders anyway.

 Once those Asics come there will be no saving Scrypt so im with ya 100% No asics in scrypt...GTFO!

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March 31, 2014, 12:53:12 AM
 #176

Offering 2000 LTC to OP to lock thread.
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March 31, 2014, 12:54:05 AM
 #177

 Huh ican believe it - -!
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March 31, 2014, 12:54:43 AM
 #178

ASIC is simply needed for the bigger picture... We need a stronger network

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March 31, 2014, 01:07:01 AM
 #179

And I thing X11 for regular ltc is not good idea. Ltc is fine now, when the price jump up thanks to asics, more X11 alts will come. Thats good for GPUs future. There is new ltc for gpus - HIRO
And really decentralized network is no ASIC network, because no one can buy it "right now" /pre-orders, late delivery etc./ compare with GPUs, and ROI at invest $10,000 is discutable, if you'r not a manufacturer Smiley
Time to look at PoS coins like communitycoin, I thing big potential coin .)

Kocur. Please explain to me how pre-orders or late deliveries causes coins to become centralized.

-- For the sake of niceness... Pretty please
I mean decentralized network, not coins. And because you dont have any TITAN at this time, but knc yes .)
While forgotten gpu miners r still on scrypt, other gets huge hashes for a buck. Its about it...

First I mean coins as in any coin's hashrate at the moment.

I could simply end this argument by pointing you at BitCoin and saying... its decentralized... its completely ASIC. Argument finished. But.. here is a rant if you want.

Knc isn't the only company producing Asics for scrypt. They are also only one company and there production cannot take 51% of the global hashrate for LiteCoin or DogeCoin.. or hell WorldCoin.

Also I ordered asics from GridSeed. And I have them running now. So... although i did experience unexpected delays I do not feel that is because Hashra wants to take 51% of the hashing power to rule the LTC world! MUAHAHAHAHAAH... cough cough

Lets say you only do mining with a GPU only coin. Lets get the scenario set.
1. The difficulty will always rise. (Just like BTC and LTC)
2. The price rises over time... in theory but has bumps along there way. (Just like BTC and LTC)
3. The price also doesn't rise in direct proportion to the diff. (Just like BTC and LTC)

You mine with your GPUs.
You have 12 of them.
You can space currently for 12 more. Any more and you would have to either move your setup or pay for an electrician for more AMPs and better cooling.
The diff keeps going up.
You keep adding more.
You like many other people run out of space and/or power and/or effect way to cool.
The diff keeps rising
The diff keeps rising
... rising.... rising
How does it keep rising?
Two things...
1. People keep adopting the coin and they setup there own 12+ cards.
2. There are people out there that have there own mini datacenters with 100s of cards. These people have money.. and time.
Eventually it becomes more and more unpractical to mine with your GPUs with this coin. You move on to another coin.
Eventually the mass majority of miners left on that coin are the ones with piss tons of GPUs. That is not very decentralized.

If you say... "Wait the price will go up too. So my 24 card rig would still make money right?". Will it make more money then perhaps a different coin? If you where to shift with others wouldn't that be a sign that your coin isn't stable?

But more notably. Diff DOES NOT EFFECT PRICE! Or at least not heavily. Trading amounts and adoption effect price. The more trades normally means the price will rise. BitCoin rose and fell not with its diff (although the diff has rose) the price rose with a massive adoption and interest in the coin, mostly in China. The diff and the price of wattage helps to keep the price from dropping below a certain point. And it also helps to rise the price. But it only a minor effect in comparison to say.. rumors of China changing there policy on crypocurrancy. That can cause price drops... huge ones.


Here is an analogy:
Say you want to get into the mover business. Its awesome. You can make money on the side and you can use equipment you already own and take care of. Other people catch onto the idea for some spare cash and its really exciting. You have your car to help move stuff and you get paid for it.

Well time goes by and more people want to get into it. They see it as a way to make more money. Not just on the side. So they go out and buy a truck. Trucks are much more fuel efficient. You see your car may get twice.. nearly 3 times the fuel economy. But because its a small car you have to make 10 trips. The Truck only 1 thus more efficient. And because you have to take 10 trips the guy with the Truck can get many more jobs before you even get one finished.

Before you know it its hard to find even a single job because everyone around now has Trucks. So what do you do? Do you buy a Truck or do you complain that everyone else has one?

Well of course you complain that everyone else has a Truck but you do not.

But it gets worse. You see there are lots of people out there interested in the mover business now. You are a trend starter! But they look at your car and wonder why? Its more expensive. It may have low upfront cost, but it has low long term returns. It may be a nicer starter point to test the waters so to speak. But it is not a solid long term investment.

Because of this the mover business isn't taken seriously and wide adoption isn't excepted. (This is where the analogy really breaks up... but yeah its not perfect) Without being taken seriously the system can never grow beyond a certain point. It can be a great tool to fight the man or the banking system if you are in a 3rd world country. Or Spain whose youth pretty much blame the Banks for being assholes. But thats about it.



All you have to do is look at BitCoin to see how awesome ASICs are to the little guy. Right now I can buy an ANT Miner S1 for roughly 400 bucks with shipping included! It will arrive at my doorstep before the end of the week. (I buy from BitMain directly and I always get them in roughly 3 to 4 days later). There current return in investment is about 60 days! You CANNOT do that with GPUs. A new R9 280x from newegg is not going to get you that kinda ROI with almost any coin. And if it does the longer that Coin is around the less the ROI will be for mining it. Rise in diff being faster then the rise in price.

If someone wanted to get them selves into mining I would point them in that direction. They are cheap, you can buy them and get them within days. And there ROI is quick. Oh... one more then... you dont have to learn a bunch of crazy computer stuff. No Linux.. no windows... riser cards whats that? I have to short the A1 and B17 pins on a PCI 1x slot.. i didn't even know that was hot swappable! Compile what you say? Or... can you browse the web? Good you can setup a dam Ant Miner S1 none of that other noise. Congrats you are mining. You can put easily 5+ or 10+ in your house without changing a dam thing.

ASICs empowers new comers. (Makes it easy by putting into one package)
ASICs is cheaper. (400 bucks after shipping is about the same price or only a little more then a R9 280x which doesn't give you as much)
ASICs improves centralization by giving everyone the ability to scale there mining operation. And if you are running out of power in your house using ASICs then at that point you are easily making enough money to go Colo.

GPUs where not made for mining. They where made for graphics. They demand a lot more power. It is simply better to use a device/tool for what it was meant for.  What needs to be focused on is the coin features and technology itself. Not how its "mined" or "minted".

Its a noble idea to let people use equipment they already own to help them make more money. But the truth is that most miners and any serious miners are people who are already in one way or another in the techy/nerdy field. You are not empowering the world. Just a bunch of nerdy geeky people... like myself. And that isn't going to change. The daily user of BTC/LTC/X11 shouldn't need to mine. They simply use the currency.

Again on my soap box but focus should be on things like BitCoin 2.0. Or new ideas like Poof of Stake or multi-algorithm coins. That try to help deal with some of the possible pitfalls of the current coins. BitCoin is only an idea. And the idea still needs work. That should be the focus.

And... I just wasted 30 minutes of my life... *sigh* why internet... why.

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March 31, 2014, 01:23:03 AM
 #180

I don't think we need to change the algorithm, and just because a mining machine, we will change our algorithm, it will cause serious split ends.

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