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Author Topic: (Unofficial) [ANN] Litecoin [LTC] to X11 algorithm hardfork  (Read 67832 times)
SpeedDemon13
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April 02, 2014, 07:54:21 AM
 #301

Great idea to keep LTC decentralized, X11 is a good candidate. There's a lot of more power efficient algos than Scrypt and Scrypt-N only is ASIC resistant but GPU hostile. Heavy, Blake, Fugue, INK and others are also a consideration too.

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Raw-H
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April 02, 2014, 08:43:15 AM
 #302

Great idea to keep LTC decentralized, X11 is a good candidate. There's a lot of more power efficient algos than Scrypt and Scrypt-N only is ASIC resistant but GPU hostile. Heavy, Blake, Fugue, INK and others are also a consideration too.

You do realize this is a hostile action towards Litecoin? The official devs aren't supporting this, nor is the whole community. They are trying to take over Litecoin and potentially damage the coin by splintering the litecoin community. Maybe after a few months litecoin isn't worth a nickle due to all the confusion being created by this.
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April 02, 2014, 08:59:55 AM
 #303

- Would you just switch algorithm again when ASIC is ever built for X11?

- yes, we would. And because of that, no company would take the risk to invest in building an ASIC for X11 unless another X11 coin (HIRO / DRK) becomes the second cryptocurrency

Glad someone will make centralized decisions like rule changes meant to scare people.  That inspires much confidence in the anonymous leadership.

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kelsey
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April 02, 2014, 09:19:38 AM
 #304

Firstly I am surprised that coblee and wtogami even bother to post in this thread as it gives it more credibility then it deserves.

Kinda of a wasted argument here as without a doubt this half baked idea by a bunch (if there even is that many) of anon wannabe noobs aint going to happen.

Having said that I am in favor of litcoin changing its algorithm to avoid asics, hell it should of done that to avoid GPU, but again that is not going to happen......(the greater concern here is both sides of that debate revolve around fiat rather then cryptos).

The problem is POW and all it flavors, no matter what you do is gameable, one of the reason satoshi was only going to use it as a short term solution (I guess along with microtransactions, fees and hell even him that got lost along the way).

All cryptocurrencies to date have been centralised, something there is no way to avoid while the software/blockchain needs maintenance, thats just the reality of it.

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April 02, 2014, 10:44:25 AM
 #305

- Would you just switch algorithm again when ASIC is ever built for X11?

- yes, we would. And because of that, no company would take the risk to invest in building an ASIC for X11 unless another X11 coin (HIRO / DRK) becomes the second cryptocurrency

Glad someone will make centralized decisions like rule changes meant to scare people.  That inspires much confidence in the anonymous leadership.

If you intend to destroy something, and in the process leave people who invested $ with empty pockets, you have to stay anonymous, or you will have to look over your shoulder for the rest of your life, no?
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April 02, 2014, 10:56:11 AM
 #306

- Would you just switch algorithm again when ASIC is ever built for X11?

- yes, we would. And because of that, no company would take the risk to . . .

. . .buy, sell, trade, exchange or use in any fashion that might go some way towards Litecoin actually succeeding as a currency.


Do you get where this is going yet?

Some anonymous twonk is declaring that they're gonna throw their toys from the pram and fuck about with Litecoin *any* time they choose to because it's, like, wayyy tooo mainstream man, so who in their right mind would risk exposing their business dealings to that sort of volatile risk?

Great job guys, truly inspirational.

Either come out and say who you are and present a rational, evidence based, challenge to the position held by the LTC Devs, or you're just some asshat trying to scam the community.






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April 02, 2014, 10:57:13 AM
 #307

ASICs? The 1% will have 99%...

https://ecent.charityminingpools.com/index.php?page=statistics&action=pool














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April 02, 2014, 11:07:00 AM
 #308

Here is why not:

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=18166.0

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Anotheranonlol
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April 02, 2014, 11:25:33 AM
 #309

The one selling point of LTC (ASIC resistance) is now moot. That was my solitary personal reason for involvement in LTC a few years ago, and I'd imagine many others too. I quickly dumped once that was no longer true. Why else would I want to support a coin which offers no tangible benefit over BTC, when I'm a believer in crypto and think BTC needs total support it can get in this early days.?  why would anyone?

LTC would not have gained a following if it didn't offer a potential diversification and safe haven from the inevitable centralisation of mining suppliers. And now the future for it is even worse, LTC only serves to give fragmentation and dilution to a fragile market which is in infancy.

So the Gold rush saga can repeat itself, leaving those at the top rich and many bagholders at the bottom losing out that brought up on the ridiculous hype..
Some people missed the BTC train, no problem they thought, the LTC one will be around in an hour, we'll catch that
These guys were told there would be a moon, but they'll be bitterly dissapointed and eventually no matter how many times they try to drum up morale by posting arise chikun, hold spartans they card tower will have to collapse.

People are imagining 10x, 100x gains? Behave yourself. Do you think BTC will sit languishing at 6bil mkt cap while LTC crawls up to 3bil, to 30bil?

The big money orchestrated the recent run-ups (After they had brought in nicely) with direct insider knowledge of the future developments, knowing full well the greedy miners just LOVE to buy the latest and greatest shovels for 3 gold coins, even if it will only dig back 2. (no problem, they can sell it back on for 2 after it's outlived it's usefullness) or greater fool theory in action
And so this generates a  sort of sunk-cost fallacy which some will mistake for a functioning ecosystem, except the real infrasctuture for LTC is not in place and will be competing rather than complimenting btc

Except while small miners who have brought devices at retail prices with huge markets are very concerned with the prices, electricity costs, breaking even etc
the big mining ops can sell on dark-pools in bulk or direct to exchange, without so much huge concerns over the price, they paid off all nre and production long ago.
one obvious path is LTC > BTC, with the effects on the market pretty clear.

Quote
Change the litecoin Proof of Work function to avoid ASIC mining?
Yes
228 (62.1%)
No
120 (32.7%

community is voting to change pOW scheme, yet litecoin-devs ignore markets requests. A bad sign.

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April 02, 2014, 11:26:42 AM
 #310

Democracy on Litecointalk.org? Lock the topic when unwanted voices are heard:

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=18166.135

Meep meep
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April 02, 2014, 11:43:02 AM
 #311

Democracy on Litecointalk.org? Lock the topic when unwanted voices are heard:

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=18166.135

lol who said any of this was a democracy?


but anyways it was locked because it was a sticky thread the same discussion is still underway in the general topic section of the same forum.
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April 02, 2014, 11:50:19 AM
 #312

good idea
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April 02, 2014, 12:28:09 PM
 #313

community is voting to change pOW scheme, yet litecoin-devs ignore markets requests. A bad sign.

No, it is a good sign that, rather than the lowest-common-denominator populist political shenanigans we currently get, whereby facts are attempted to be proven by general consensus(!), we have the notion of a meritocracy of ideas.

Basically it's this, you don't get to stir the pot by whipping the herd into a feeding frenzy around the idea you want to see implemented, solely because you want it implemented for your own reason, no, you have to actually present evidence-based reasoning that asserts a solid case for the implementation you wish to see. The OP has had his assertions successfully challenged by the original Dev, there appears to be little else in Mr Mysterious' locker on this topic.

Quote from: Beeker
Lock the topic when unwanted voices are heard:
Says the guy who demands we all listen to him while he hides underneath some other saps petticoat. Tell me again why you're entitled to deceive?





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April 02, 2014, 12:50:39 PM
 #314

Free markets is not about populist politics, it's about general consensus.

They're the same thing. Populist politics is attempt to manufacture consent by way of hot-button topics used as smoke-and-mirrors for gaining general consensus in order to achieve your own goals.

Its dishonest. A bit like the OP really. Actually, a lot like the OP, someone who is hiding behind the community's 'best interests', as well as someone else's forum account, in order to press for their own agenda under the guise of a hot-button topic being able to stir the clickerati into action.

"Ooh, yes, that sounds like something I want given the 7 seconds I have considered it, I shall vote yes with a little move of my mouse and a swift click, job done. Who did you say you were again? Oh, you didn't."

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April 02, 2014, 01:07:42 PM
 #315

I really thought that thread was a joke, preparing a brilliant April fool prank. Obviously i was wrong.

So Op, you really want to hard fork Litecoin? be my guest, do it. One condition, don't use the word "Litecoin" in the coin naming. By the way, why choosing Litecoin? and not Bitcoin directly? lack of ambition?
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April 02, 2014, 01:12:28 PM
 #316

In all case, if you ban the ASIC what about the Botnet?


 Kiss  Tongue Kiss Tongue

ASICs = more profits for the manufacturers.

People keep repeating that blatant lie, out of ignorance I guess, that asics are cheaper and more efficient and thus more profits for the miners.

Well, NO!

You can't buy an asic NOW like you can buy gpus, and with the current pre-order mafia, it makes it impossible for anyone besided the manufacturers and their inner circle to make any money with asics.

That's just fact, I'm done with this, and lost faith on 90% of the human race right now...I can't believe the foolishness/blindness of some.

So it's the vendors fault not ASIC fault.

Careful XC anonymous coin is a scam
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April 02, 2014, 02:15:34 PM
 #317

Why not Scrypt-N?

It is much more popular and will drive more massive adoption I think.
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April 02, 2014, 03:48:01 PM
 #318



Quote from: coblee
If this FUD attempt can bring down Litecoin, then Litecoin is not strong enough. And if this rogue development team can overthrow us, then we don't deserve to be running Litecoin development. This is an open decentralized currency, so time will tell.

Well, guys, why so dramatic statements - can't we simply agreed with the will of 51% and go ahead for LTC good?
If people will choose to change for X11 good, if not we stay with scrypt.

I was witnessing disccussion about possible attack using time wrap by BCX and after few days of strong conversation booth parts agreed how to fix this problem - and BCX stated - that attacking AUR was never his intention.
Can we follow this way of solving conflicts?



As well I'm thinking if this attempt is possible at all - if KNC or Alpha are already deployed their ASICminers for "test" mining, obviously they will stand on ASIC-forward side. Will you find enough hashpower?

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April 02, 2014, 03:48:52 PM
 #319

 ASICs are bad. That's the pure and simple truth (at least from my point of view). Let me explain why.
 When I say this, I am referring to the beasts which are able to pull out huge amounts of hashpower and cost almost as much as a car or a small apartment, not the things that you carry in your pocket. Almost everyone is able to afford the little ones and, honestly, they probably should get a couple instead of GPUs, because of the lower power consumption (we should all care about this issue). This is a good thing, but this is where it all ends, with the small, affordable ASICs.
 When we begin to talk about pieces of dedicated hardware that cost upwards of 2000$ / piece, the pros end and the cons come into play. Not everyone can afford such hardware, because of this, the decentralization is being fucked right in the ass. Wasn't this one of the main reasons why the bitcoin was invented?
 When the first ASICs appeared, the ones who made enough money mining bitcoins rushed to buy them, while the ones who couldn't afford them looked for something different (scrypt) to mine. Bitcoin still stands because it is THE bitcoin. IT was here first and everything that came after was build in it's image.
 Currently it makes no sense to mine Bitcoins with GPUs, regardless of how many you have. This will happen very soon with all Scrypt coins too. People with GPUs will stop mining Scrypt and will look for other algos. The value of the LTC will plummet and it will never recover, because it is, at it's best, a copy of the bitcoin, which failed to keep up to it's purpose - ASIC RESISTANCE.
 The most important thing that you all should understand is that it is not the LTC (or any other coin like it) that fails, but the algorithm itself. SCRYPT is about to die and, it will take with it every coin that keeps using it, because all of them are just copies of an original idea that fails to work as intended. And like scrypt, so will die each and every other algorithm for which dedicated hardware is created.
 If you consider that you are backing up LTC by rejecting this hardfork, you are either fucking retarded, or have a pre-ordered scrypt asic on the way. Either way, bad news for you: you are only pushing the coin further to it's death.
 I have (partially) read the official response from the LTC dev team and I have only one thing to say: Spineless cowards. Nothing great comes without risk, and you are refusing to take any. Keep this up and you will loose everything anyway.
 I'm not saying that X11 is the answer. I know to little about it from the programming point of view, to be able to say if it will or not provide an answer to the ASIC problem, but it is so much more friendly towards the hardware, and this is the main reason why I love it.
 With this being said, I hope that this fork will be successful, and I wish the best of luck in their endeavors to the people who are supporting it.

SCRYPT IS DEAD! LONG LIVE X11.
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April 02, 2014, 04:00:20 PM
 #320

Democracy on Litecointalk.org? Lock the topic when unwanted voices are heard:

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=18166.135

There were other topics opened, discussing the same problem.

This is your post:

Quote
We, a team of Litecoin supporters and developers, are not satisfied with the current development of LTC.

You are a liar. You are A team of (?) .
Team of Litecoin developers and supporters already gave us their point of view on ASICs and hardfork, well thought through and well argumented. Anyone can and should read it here: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=18166.0

Quote
This way we like to keep it decentralized, so no large ASIC manufacturers like KnCMiner, Gridseed or Alpha-T can takeover the network when Scrypt ASICS come widely available.

To lower the footprint of LTC and retain GPU mineability, the algorithm of our choice is X11.

We would like to hear from the Litecoin community if other changes, like to the difficulty algorithm, are preferred too.

And this are your "arguments".

Noone knows who you are, what is your background, your true intentions, your programming knowledge, basicly nothing. How you, a team of supporters and developers, intend to support LTC in the future and are u up to the task  (we know current DEV team is as they proved themselfs )? You may as well be random guy who never vrote one line of code in his life.

And funny thing is, there are still idiots out there willing to support you, despite all of that. I would say good reflections of what kind of people stand behind you.

And do votes really reflect LTC (and by LTC i dont mean GPU) community opinion?

I think for majority of community its no brainer (those that are not braindead) who to support, you or current dev team.

 
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